Responses:
Dialogue 1
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Rebuttal from:harryll - August 15, 1999
Harryll: VJ....You have continued to respond only to those questions which allow you to speak in generalities...
Vj ~ Is it my fault that a scientist has the wrong concept of generalities?
Harryll: Where in India, specifically, can any of us see the "perfection" that you so brazenly claim to have found...
Vj ~ The Eygptians too at one time were powerful empire, so were the Greeks and the Romans so where are they now? Before them it was India, but if you ever decide to look into its archeology, history and culture, you will no doubt find it to be so.
Harryll: What part of that nation has something that exemplifies that wisdom and perfection of understanding that you are continually boasting about.???...
Vj ~ The Grammar of Panini (language of Sanskrit) that was put into its full use 50 years ago by the Germans to propel space technology.
Harryll: I think that it is only in your own mind....
Vj ~ Still further ahead than your stupidity.
Harryll: You have NEVER given one single example of the superiority of your beliefs over that of Mankind and science....
Vj ~ We went through this already, the abstruse science of this philosophy lies in subjective evidences and must be realized through one's own individual effort. You can stay where you are and argue like an idiot from now to doomsday, it won't get you any closer to it, unless you are prepared to do your own investigation. You did it for your science and you should know that it is no different when it comes to any other philosophical treatise. Repost #230
Harryll: .....THAT'S IT..????..Your only comments.???..The only thing that is obviously showing decay and lack of courage to face reality is you yourself...
Vj ~ On the contrary, my reality leads me to a source and this source tells me of a destination. What has your reality accomplished for you?
Harryll: You haven't addressed any of the issues being discussed...
Vj ~ Is it my fault you are stupid?
Harryll: You say that I should look on your board but you yourself can't even defend that board by clearly showing and describing the "superiority" of it...
Vj ~ What is there to defend when you haven't asked me a sensible question pertaining to my site yet?
Harryll: While Mankind has worked hard to understand himself and the world around him, you only can look at some past "sage" writings as the ONLY source of knowledge and understanding...
Vj ~ If mankind had investigated "some past "sage" writings as the source" they would not have had to and still working so hard to understand himself and the world around him. All this 'hard' work you have put in and yet you cannot find the source. Beats me, why you are so determined to be an idiot.
Harryll: You have NO understanding, only a dogmatic doctrine of religious belief which you try to pass off as knowledge superior to EVERYTHING else....
Vj ~ It is a belief in harmony with reasoning and in conformity with the immutable laws of nature. Show me where you science can match this?
Thyme: GET A REAL LIFE....
Vj ~ Sound like one pissed scientist! What a reality!
Dialogue 2
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Rebuttal from: harryll - August 18, 1999
Harryll: Hello VJ....Mankind continues on his ongoing search to honestly understand all that he can of the physical world around him and needs no apology that he hasn't as yet, found it "all"....
Vj ~ Not what those in pain and misery are saying. "What have I done to deserve this, is more like it. Do you think you or they understand pain and misery in spite of your 'realistic' science of the physical world around?Harryll: What is known is truly remarkable, a fact that is undeniable to any honest inquiry...
Vj ~ Again what inquiry can be honest when there is no source or destination? How can you be honest when you are denying yourself honest inquires of a faith in harmony with reasoning?Harryll: Only a genuine fool could claim that he has found "all" of the answers
Vj ~ Was it some genuine fool who said the earth was round when millions believed it to be flat? In the same way, couldn't you be one of those millions of fools now, who is claiming that no one knows "all" the answers?Harryll: but still can't answer one single question that might show him to have any knowledge, much less "all" of it...
Vj ~ It seems, besides being an idiot, you are also a blind bat, maybe you should try reading in the night. Or maybe you are frog, that lives in his own little well and when told of the vast oceans, he simply laugh, convinced that his well is all the world.Harryll: Try honesty just once, it might be very refreshing...
Vj ~ Honesty cannot work without reasoning, perhaps you would like to try that first.
Dialogue 3
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Rebuttal from: harryll - August 20, 1999
Harryll: Hello VJ....You constantly blame science because not everyone in life is living as he could or should...
Vj ~ Why would I want to blame science when science cannot do anything on its own? The blame lies with you and all the other idiots who think they know what's best for the world.Harryll: You want everyone to believe that this is the "litmus" test of the validity of Man's knowledge, that it has failed and yours hasn't...
Vj ~ There is a difference, mine has failed because of rejection and yours have failed because of ignorance due to that rejection. It is only in Vedic wisdom lies prevention and an end to curiosity and its rejection leads to finding cures instead and fruitless adventures in discoveries.Harryll: Certainly India is an excellent example of your perfect knowledge and source..
Vj ~ If the Hindus hadn't reduced themselves to such idiocy as your present state, India would have been a perfect example, but her glorious past cannot be denied.Harryll: We can all see that it has no poor or destitute so "yours" has answered "all" of the needs of them...
Vj ~ Whatever her conditions are, unlike the other fallen empires of the world, she still holds the key to all the civilized world - the source of ethics, morals and all sciences.Harryll: Again, where is your honesty and reality.?????
Vj ~ Even if I show you, how can I expect a jackass to understand what honesty or reality is? Harryll: harryll - August 26, 1999
Again VJ....Please show us some examples of the all inclusive and unique wisdom of "Vedic" teaching...
Vj ~ Go to my homepage and click on "A guide to proper reasoning - The Light of Truth. If it is not enough then try reading it.What has sold you on believing it to be the only source of wisdom and knowledge, a belief that is so strong that you deny the reality of ANY other knowledge including science.????...
Vj ~ And you will never know until you have also diligently tread the same path as I have.I, like most everyone one else, have had to decide the validity of what I was taught as a child by loving and well meaning parents in subjects like religion, politics and everything else involving life...
Vj ~ Is it a wonder, like most, you an idiot also. All parents who have denied their children the source of true knowledge have not only denied themselves of it, but have misled their kin.The choices must be made in order to be responsible for one's own life and to be true first to one's own conscience...
Vj ~ And what are the choices if there is no source of one's life and no destination (purpose)?
Dialogue 4
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Rebuttal from: e.d.drivenmad - August 27, 1999
e.d: I guess if you just make things virtually undecipherable you can say just about anything without anyone contesting it.
Vj ~ It would either take some one of extensive wisdom to do just that, or those who cannot or trying to contest are terribly ignorant. e.d: I offer the above as proof
Vj ~ So who would you rather be?
4thhorse - August 29, 1999
4thhorse: so..I take it English is not your first language
Vj ~ Not only for me, but most of the human race.
twoclaws - September 13, 1999
two: um, the creationists that argue that no one has ever seen evolution happening,
Vj ~ Rain did not come from the cloud once, but steady it is law. The evolution of man from lower creature is not happening anywhere and couldn't have happen once either, since it would be a breach to the same law. two: what the hell are they talking about, i mean god, do you see him on a regular basis
Vj ~ He speaks to Benny Hinn, Billy Graham, John Hegee, etc. everyday what more do you need?two: there is a big hole in the plot here,
Vj ~ Most certainly, the "hole" is in your head which means there is a missing screw.two: and who says god doesn't cause animals to evolve?
Vj ~ And who says He does? two: he is the almighty after all isn't he?
Vj ~ Of course he is the Almighty, and All-wise too, but He wouldn't do anything that stupid just to make a fool look smart without any effort on his/her part. harryl l- August 29, 1999
Harryll: Hello vj....The followers of each and every religion believe that they alone have "the source" of all knowledge....
Vj ~ So do you, only you call yours science. Harryll: The difference between them and you is that they are honest enough to understand what is REALITY and what is OBSESSION...
Vj ~ There are honest because they are innocently being misled by hypocrites like you who are obsessed with a 'reality' that has no source and even worst the objective of a destination. You don't know where you came from and where you are going but you want them to accept your reality. Like you, they are going nowhere, how stupid can you be?Harryll: Unlike you, they don't think that it is necessary to deny all of reality in order to comply with one's religious beliefs...
Vj ~ It not only shows how little they know but how ignorant you are. So what can your science offer them, and expensive cure for aids, a free trip to desolate Mars or a world of nuclear weapons? Harryll: In doing this, you are just discrediting your own "source's validity and showing yourself to be dishonest and irresponsible....
Vj ~ You are indeed an idiot beyond all idiots, can you validate or invalidate something that you have no idea or knowledge of? Harryll: I guess if you just make things virtually undecipherable you can say just about anything without anyone contesting it.
Vj ~ It would either take some one of extensive wisdom to do just that, or those who cannot or trying to contest are terribly ignorant.
Dialogue 5
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Rebuttal from: oinkus - August 30, 1999
Vj ~ Welcome back! where were you my friend? Oinkus: Haryll, I admire your patience.
Vj ~ How about the patience of battling so many instead of one?Oinkus: However trying to get Singh to be rational is impossible
Vj ~ Especially when Singh is already rational and you two are not. Oinkus: I'm curious, as you are probably not going to look into Vedic philosophy, why argue with Singh?
Vj ~ Perhaps he is blind and is ashamed to say it, another admiration for his patience. Oinkus: And if you are interested in the vedas, then Singh is about the last person to talk to.
Vj ~ Maybe he had no choice since you didn't inform him of the first person.Oinkus: He is extremely rude
Vj ~ He has got to be more foolish than you if he didn't notice that until now. I have noticed that your absence didn't bare you fruits of wisdom either, was it you, the company or both? Oinkus: and seems determined to make his philosophy look as stupid as possible.
Vj ~ He wouldn't know that either since he didn't bother to read it. On the other hand, if I have made it "stupid", it shouldn't be that difficult for you and him to grasp, now that it has been brought to your level.
oinkus - September 03, 1999
Oinkus: Hello SinghVJ. I have a question for you. I hope that you can answer it.
Vj ~ About time a fool takes this debate seriously.Oinkus: Is one who follows the Vedic principles always a vegetarian?
Vj ~ When it is practiced yes! Oinkus: Are they allowed fish for example? Eggs?
Vj ~ Depends how much one desires happiness. As serious as I am, eggs and fishes play no part in a vegetarian diet."There is no turpitude in eating meat, drinking alcohol or committing adultery for it is the natural way of created beings but abstinence brings great reward." Manu. Oinkus: Milk and milk products? My basic question is that to live humans require vitamin B12 which comes only from animal products. It therefore follows that right thinking Indians like yourself must have some animal products in their diets. I know you probably eat no meat, but I expect that milk and milk products are acceptable to followers of Vedic philosophy. Thank you for whatever answer you can give me.
Vj ~ Milk, and I don't mean 2%, is the only complete food. Yes, there is nothing wrong in its use as a vegetarian. As a matter of fact it is highly recommended before any other diet.
Dialogue 6
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Rebuttal from:Rosamond - September 26, 1999
Rosa: harryll: Lord save me from people who have all the answers!
Vj ~ On the other hand, if you had all the answers you won't need the Lord to save you.Rosa: "Before the stars, a man is small, before the atom great. Between the two infinities, he walks the middle state.
Vj ~ Evolutionists are indeed lost, neither the stars nor the atoms are infinite entities.Rosa: What is this creature, worm or god, all-meaning or inane.
Vj ~ Investigate the one true religion thoroughly, it's wisdom cannot make you God, but it can certainly prevent you from becoming a worm. Rosa: But give or take a universe, the lover has the best."
Vj ~ What good is the lover's "best" when he/she does not know how to avoid becoming a worm?Harryll - September 26, 1999
Vj ~ My guess is in this world of ignorance it is never difficult to find one to whom you can be in agreement with. Harryll: It tackles the very heart of religious discussions here and on many of these boards, the concern of JUDGEMENT...
Vj ~ Actually it accomplishes nothing in the absence of the correct knowledge in one's quest to find the source of life and matter.
Harryll: Through religion and God, we try to "palm it off" with the thought that we are inadequate and that such things must be left to an alleged "higher power"...
Vj ~ Not if such a religion and God is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with the immutable laws of nature.
Harryll: The problem is that, without making honest judgments, we never learn or understand what it is that we "are about" ...
Vj ~ The problem is you, who must first seek to do honest and impartial inquires before "making honest judgments".
Harryll: Without this understanding we are prey to anyone who claims to understand the requirements of morality and our "purpose" in life
Vj ~ Is it a wonder why you are always a prey? And what is your "purpose" when the 'truth' lies in some distant future?
Harryll: and worse, one who arbitrarily dictates what we must do to that end...
Vj ~ If you had any reasoning you would not look to science alone to "arbitrarily" dictate your life.
Harryll: and are at the core of understanding just "who" we are...
Vj ~ How is it possible to know who you are, without a source knowledge to guide you?Harryll: I can hear your excuse already, they just didn't have the "right" God, they should have come to you...
Vj ~ No Harryll, they should have gone to one who knows what is "TRUTH" AND "REALITY". Feel better now?Rosamond - September 27, 1999
Rosa: Singhvj: Once again, Lord save me from people "who have all the answers"!
Vj ~ Once again Rosamond I see deeper trouble for you, who is going to save you from the Lord that has all the answers? Rosa: I have never met one who wasn't an irritating bore.
Vj ~ I have never met one either who could read my mind. Rosamond - September 28, 1999
Rosa: Hello VJ: Lord save me from fake swamis with unpolished grammar and equally unpolished theological swindles.
Vj ~ In spite of it though, I am still not in need of a "Lord" to save me. If polished grammar is a reflection of your ignorance ('polished' evolution theory), I am indeed very happy to do without it.Rosamond - September 28, 1999
RosaHello VJ: You are as presumptuous as you are irrelevant.
Vj ~ You did all of that without any proper dialogue, what a clever woman! It seems that when you are beaten at your own logic, the opponent is considered presumptuous and his response is irrelevant?
Dialogue 7
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Rebuttal from: harryll - September 28, 1999
Harryll: They wouldn't come to boring little me because I have no "cause" to sell to anyone except reality...
Vj ~ And isn't it still something to sell, your REALITY?
Harryll: Reality doesn't make or offer outrageous claims or promises, it offers only the opportunities afforded through understanding and knowledge...
Vj ~ And what opportunities were there for those who have already gone not knowing your reality?
Harryll: Science alone forms Man's impartial basis toward the understanding of our physical world and universe...
Vj ~ How come science doesn't know the source of matter and life?
Harryll: You prefer the mysticism that is outside of the domain and constraints of science and attack science simply because it doesn't support your dogmatic illusions...
Vj ~ It is only deemed an attack because you know nothing of my faith.
Harryll: Reality and science don't trample into the affairs and lives of Mankind but if you had your way, you intend to infect and dictate every last detail of men's lives and their very way of life with your obsessive beliefs...
Vj ~ And what exactly is your reality of science and understanding, not dictating?
Harryll: Your goal is to make reality and truth your own dictates, to be determined by you, and those like you, under the guise of religion and God...
Vj ~ What difference does it make whether it is done by my religion and God or by your reality of science? Harryll: You are not only the enemy of reality, democracy and freedom must also be your eventual targets...
Vj ~ All so far is supportive of ignorance and yes all untruths are the targets of truth. What freedom is there in ignorance and what success can democracy bring when the majority are fools?
Harryll - September 30, 1999
Harryll: Hello Vj...You say that you don't need "the Lord" to save you but in reality, NO ONE can save you from your own delusions...
Vj ~ It is you my friend that are living in your own delusions. Any means of sustenance and information that breaches the immutable laws of nature are delusions. Think about it. Besides, it is not the "Lord" alone, but by our own effort that we can be saved.
Harryll: In all of your discussions you have yet to offer any EXAMPLE of any individuals, societies or nations that have benefited through your belief system....
Vj ~ Isn't it ignorant of you to conclude that I have failed to show such examples when you couldn't bother to look into my website for it.Harryll: The SUPERIORITY that you continually claim SHOULD be demonstrable after being around all of these centuries, shouldn't it????..
Vj ~ Certainly it is, but a fool who refuses to make the effort necessary to look for it obviously won't find it?
Harryll: Why is it that you can't just SHOW US.?????..
Vj ~ If it was that simple, there would be no fools. If there is gold underground, it wouldn't matter how much evidence I give you, there will be no gold unless you make the effort to dig. Besides, when I say that this truth is for all in all ages, I meant the blind also. It would be an injustice to deprive them of this truth so it means that all will have to acquire it without perception.
Harryll: The logic goes like this; if a farmer wants to demonstrate his superiority of ability, he can only do it through his "crops"...Where are the "fruits" of your beliefs so that we can see the absolute wisdom and superiority that you claim.????...
Vj ~ The logic is, if I should give the farmer (you) information (my site) on how to save his crop (soul) and he ignores it only to complain that my plan failed, is no one else's fault but his own.
Harryll: Just one more thought, (that I hope won't distract you from answering the previous statements), I am not sure that I am questioning your religion or your obviously flawed personal REPRESENTATIONS of that religion....
Vj ~ It figures, you neither know the purpose of life nor its origin and that is your biggest flaw above all flaws. Also, any one with an ounce of intelligence would know that my "flawed personal REPRESENTATIONS of that religion" cannot be determined without extensive investigation of that religion itself.
Dialogue 8
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Rebuttal from:Rosamond - September 30, 1999
Rosa: Hello, VJ. Assuming I was beaten, are you?
Vj ~ Is this how lame your logic is? If you are beaten, obviously it was by me, so how could I be beaten at the same time?Rosa: And that you possess even a shred of logic?
Vj ~ It is obvious that I do, since you were the one "beaten". Rosa: If you were to define your terms, I doubt they would have much semblence to common usage
Vj ~ How could a common usage be determined when you have refused a dialogue on my faith? Rosa: Thank you for illustrating the definition of "delusional". You are both untrained and undisciplined.
Vj ~ Since you have not yet enter into a sensible argument with me, isn't it premature to come to such a conclusion? I am quite sure you didn't denounced your tutors in the first week of University in spite of what you might have disagreed with. Rosa: Go do your homework before trying to become the Guru of Schenectady.
Vj ~ I did my home work, it is you, O 'Great Intellectual One', who are not paying attention!
Rosamond - September 30, 1999
Rosa: The premise of this board strains credibility,
Vj ~ Of course it does, yours! Rosa: and presumes that the human being is the ultimate survival design that, were evolution a correct model, all animals would evolve to homonid
Vj ~ It is presumption based on ignorance of the immutable laws of nature. Do some homework on it and then you will be in a better position to defend it.Rosa: Even more revealing is that you aren't even embarrassed by your ignorance.
Vj ~ I doubt whether one who lacks the knowledge of the immutable laws of nature, the origin of life and matter, is in a position to declare who is truly ignorant.Rosa: Your responses are by turns inaccurate, uneducated, illogical and arrogant.
Vj ~ It is always the calculated conclusion of a fool when his/her ego is offended by truth.Rosa: No worthwhile teacher would impose him/herself as you do, claiming to have the answer.
Vj ~ And no worthwhile student would reject, the theology that contracdicts your theory, without careful, thorough and impartial inquires.Rosa: I notice this board isn't exactly swarming with eager disciples...
Vj ~ One disappointed fool at a time, is good enough for me and like the others before you, you will also take leave in due time, and it is very rare that I have been surprised. However, if there were a swarm, it would have left my theology hanging in contradictions and inconsistencies as evolution. As long as you are the one defending and I am the one doing the attacking, then it is obvious where lies "eagerness".
Dialogue 9
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Rebuttal from:Rosamond - October 03, 1999
Rosa: Rosa: Oinkus - So long as VJ is occupied online with people who are ensured to his negativity, he's harmless, and others are protected.
Vj ~ I see no sense in protecting the ignorant from enlightenment? It certainly looks like one pin-head protecting other pinheads. Rosa: Rosa:V: Pinhead: 1. a stupid, foolish person; 2. a small, trifling, unimportant thing.
Vj ~ Believe me Rosa, it still does not look good for you when a 'pinhead's knowledge of the immutable laws of nature cannot be refuted. oinkus - October 03, 1999
Oinkus: Harryl and Rosamond. Why do you bother about VJ? He can be funny,
Vj ~ And what better way to expound truth when there is fun.Oinkus: but you're putting a great amount of energy into him.
Vj ~ Then there is truth in what I have, as I earlier stated, the wise can draw nectar (wisdom) from poison (a fool). Oinkus: Clearly you are not going take him seriously or learn anything that he has to teach.
Vj ~ Shows that the power of the ego is in control and not the self.Oinkus: Also neither of you will convince VJ of anything. So, any reason for your long debate? Perhaps VJ is just funny or entertaining?
Vj ~ When the ego is in control (empty pride) there is the fear of loosing and thus situation becomes desperation to continue rather than fun and entertainment.Oinkus: I disagree a little with both of you. VJ does appear to know his own philosophy and is not a dancing pinhead
Vj ~ Do I denote a sense of wisdom here. It seems you have been doing some serious thinking oinkus. Keep it up my friend.Oinkus: He is though unable/unwilling to even try to think about how another person may view things.
Vj ~ Truth is one and therefore has only one view, either I am right or you are wrong. So far, the former is ahead, since one is yet to refute my knowledge of the immutable laws of nature. Oinkus: I expect he has as much contempt for other Vedic-philosophy believing people as he does for everyone else.
Vj ~ More contempt for those who propagate untruth and not for the innocent who are innocently brain-washed into it. Oinkus: My main problem with him is the racism that he has (read #303).
Vj ~ If you fail to see the wisdom in the statement then question it before drawing your own conclusion. It is always the sensible thing to do. Oinkus: Also, previously I mentioned to him that I had a 22 year old friend die of cancer. VJ was actually happy to hear that a young Christian woman had died a slow, painful death.
Vj ~ Here again because of ignorance you are drawing your own conclusions and to the wrong people. Rosa and Harry has no answers when it comes to the purpose of the living, what can they see in death?Oinkus: "Gloating" would best describe his attitude.
Vj ~ Actually when one is living in sin, death is a way out. The longer we live in the absence of true knowledge the more we will suffer because of sin. This way your young friend has a better chance, than even you, of rebirth in a better condition since she did not live long enough to accumulate more sins over virtue. Yes, I am indeed happy for her soul. Oinkus: Anyway, I'm just curious about why VJ is worth the posts.
Vj ~ Curiosity can kill, try to be inquisitive. Oinkus: I also wonder why VJ keeps at it. He must know that his attitude is guaranteed to keep all converts away. Maybe that's what he wants?
Vj ~ There never can be converts to wisdom, it must be acquired. In false dogmas, an Evangelist spends his entire life preaching scripture, while an idiot can ask for forgiveness on the last day and gain the same salvation also. Do you see any sense in this?
Dialogue 10
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Rebuttal from: Rosamond - October 04, 1999
Rosa: VJ - A common symptom of delusional psychoses is a failure to recognize or inability to acknowledge when one's beliefs have been refuted.
Vj ~ It is your failure, since you are yet to refute my faith, even though you were given the opportunity to start with origin of life and matter. I wonder why the hesitation to do so, "common symptom of delusional psychoses"?
Rosamond - October 05, 1999
Rosa: VJ's premise is badly flawed.
Vj ~ You sounded more like the fox who dismisses the grape as rotten because he couldn't reach it.Rosa: As has been repeatedly demonstrated.
Vj ~ Unless you are having a bad dream, I have yet to see a single demonstration of yours, never mind repeated.Rosa: VJ's beliefs are a personal matter;
Vj ~ So why have I opened it for discussion? Rosa: however, a belief that makes assumptions based, to put it generously, on less than half of the sum of the scientific evidence is not a matter for serious debate or discussion.
Vj ~ It is obvious that since you can't even handle the "less than half" of my truth (natural laws), the whole could have been totally devastating to your static intellect.Rosamond - October 06, 1999
Rosa: Exactly how a specy evolves is a result of many unique factors: adaptation to climate, predators, availability of food, etc.
Vj ~ And it did not all just happen that way by chance either. Nothing in our daily lives lacks a purpose, how then can creation itself lacks one. If it does, it is you who lack the knowledge to know. Rosa: There is nothing in the evolutionary theory that would logically suggest that all species are expected to one day become human.
Vj ~ Then it is a breech to the immutable laws of nature which call for steady and repeated occurrences. Neither did rain come from the clouds once nor humans reproduce humans once nor can a lower creature produce a human once. Natural laws called for as you earlier put it "repeated demonstrations".Rosa: Although homo sapiens is a very successful species in terms of population, it is certainly not the most successful species, and the view that we are the "highest" really depends on the criteria.
Vj ~ Since animals are stupor by nature it is rational to believe that humans with an intellect are the highest of all species. Thus the "criteria" of learning is teaching. Humans must be taught today, will be so in the future and so were they in the past. There were, is and can be no other way of learning.
Dialogue 11
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Rebuttal from: Rosamond - October 07, 1999
Rosa: Evolutionary Theory does not advance the notion that life has no purpose or evolves through "random chance".
Vj ~It does not advance the notion that there is a purpose either and if it does, then it would have to come up with an efficient cause.
Rosa: The former is a purely speculative leap
Vj ~ What do you know that was created by an efficient (man) cause that did not first require a purpose?
Rosa: and not one made by scientists and the latter is a misinterpretation by people who either have a religious agenda or are not well schooled in the field, or both.
Vj ~ Are you one, that is schooled in both science and religion?
Rosa: To say that evolution is only supportable if all animals evolve toward homonid or that if this is not the intent it is a breech of the "immutable law of nature" is false and ignorant.
Vj ~ It is even more ignorant when the theory breaches the immutable laws which call for functions of steady or repeated occurrences. I only wonder as intelligent as you are why you did not respond to effect of steady or repeated occurrences.
Rosa: One of the more egregious flaws in your "thinking" is that if all living organisms were intended - and did - evolve into homonid species, there would be no ecosystem to support any life whatsoever - including homonid.
Vj ~ The flaw is not the ecosystem to support life but your theory since evolution of man from a lower creature is not a repeated occurrence as required by the immutable laws of nature.VJ: -Since animals are stupor by nature --
Rosa: Huh??? This is a nonsensical fragment.
Vj ~ The fragmentation lies in your static intellect.
Rosa: However, if survival is superior to extinction, first prize would have to go to the cockroach, not the human. If individual longevity is the mark of superiority, tortoises would certainly be higher up the echelon than human. If swiftness is more prized, then the cheetah wins. If living underwater is the criteria, a guppy gets the blue ribbon.
Vj ~ The fact still remains that there are stupor unless one have graduated from the same university you attended. A human can swim, dive, run and survive as animals do also, but above all, has an intellect that can grow in wisdom if guided by the correct knowledge, which is not possible with any other species. If you can't see the difference then you have not fully evolved yet.
Rosa: As to the requirement of learning being teaching, I have no quarrel with that statement if "self-teaching" is included
Vj ~ You should have a quarrel with it, since it breaches the theory of evolution which has no sound account for the origin of language. Man had to be taught so who taught the first man? Who ever he was, he had to be a genius to invent a complex language without any help while we have to struggle to get it right in spite of the aid of a teacher.
Rosa: but more to the point, teachers with true wisdom naturally attract students who are eager to absorb knowledge.
Vj ~ Why blame the teacher when there are hardly students "who are eager to absorb knowledge"? True wisdom is acquired by the practice of correct knowledge, which must be in harmony with reasoning and science, and in conformity with natural laws. By what standard do you define "true wisdom"?
Rosa: The charlatans who lack any real worthwhile knowledge desire to be teachers to compensate for their lack of status and autonomy.
Vj ~ Aren't you one such charlatan when your knowledge does not include the study of all religions?
Rosa: These types are reduced to aggressively shouting their "learned status" and are forced into what I would think is the rather humiliating position of having to solicit students to sit at their feet.
Vj ~ Contrary to your views, wisdom is never in search of a student. It is the student who must come to the teacher, ready to abandon in principle and humility whatever he/she knows in order to begin the practice of true knowledge. Since the immutable laws point to progression as downwards fewer and fewer will seek this wisdom as the end of this creation's cycle draws closer.
Dialogue 12
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Rebuttal from: harryll - October 05, 1999
Harry: Harry: Hello all....VJ's entire beliefs are summed up in just 2 claims that he continually makes...
Vj ~ And which you continually refuse to refute.
Harry: (1.) That he knows God's real name thus identity (suggesting that others do not really know him)...
Vj ~ Well it is obvious Harry, you don't know His name otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Harry: (2.)That he alone knows the "immutable laws of nature" and that all others (especially science) don't...
Vj ~ And again, you know absolutely nothing of the immutable laws of nature and if science doesn't know, it is not because of me, but an idiot, who call himself a scientist.
Harry: The first one is a defiance of all other religions,
Vj ~ Not only that, the first one defies even your science or haven't you noticed it yet? And if you are not well acquainted with "all other religions", what is one more?
Harry: the second, a stupid defiance of all reality...
Vj ~ It is a "stupid defiance" because you are a stupid scientist with a dumb reality (without source and destination).
Harry: The important point for anyone to recognize is that it is ONLY through the vehicle of a religion that someone can morally rationalize total and complete ignorance, irrationality and intolerance as VJ has done....
Vj ~ The "important point" for any intelligent person to recognize, is that you haven't put up even one sensible argument for or against the immutable laws of nature much less my faith.
Harry: He hides under an assumed moral righteousness of religion because he can't otherwise defend anything that he says in an open and honest forum or discussion...
Vj ~ Who ever find themselves in agreement with you are themselves ignorant. What is there to defend when you haven't mounted a sensible argument yet? Forget my religion for now, and prove to me Mr. Scientist what your science knows of the immutable laws of nature.
Dialogue 13
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Rebuttal from: Rosamond - October 08, 1999
Rosa: Once again, your interpretation of the "immutable law of nature" is cock-eyed.
Vj ~ It is your brains that are cock-eyed. You have no knowledge of the immutable laws otherwise you would have already attempted to expound on it or refute me.
Rosa: If every organism was meant to evolve into a human,
Vj ~ I thought the evolution theory (of man) was based on one specific organism, an ape or a monkey.
Rosa: there would be no life on earth.
Vj ~ Why would it matter if life exists or not, according to your theory, there is no purpose?
Rosa: For instance, if all life were human life, what would we eat?
Vj ~ Grass! Unless it too, evolved from some lower creature.
Rosa: Obviously biodiversity is essential to support all life, including human
Vj ~ What you need now is support for your static brain and "biodiversity" won't do itl
Rosamond - October 12, 1999
Vj ~ I thought the evolution theory was based on one specific organism, an ape or a monkey.
Rosa: We have at last arrived at the source of your major misunderstanding.
Vj ~ If I am wrong, it was Darwin who did the misleading. Rosa: Molecular genetics is the most recent but by no means the first branch of science to support the conclusions of evolutionary theory:
Vj ~ The theory is baseless since there is no conclusions for the source of life, matter and the origin of language. Rosa: all living organisms, plant and animal alike, evolved from one original organism which was formed from the chemicals and energy present on earth several billion years ago.
Vj ~It is obvious that if "the chemicals and energy present" is known to man (through science), why is that they (scientists) cannot produce life yet. Never mind life, how about producing a strand of hair or even a blade of grass. Rosa: The human genome even carries all the genetic code for vegetation coiled into a segment of our DNA, a little like a "zip" file on your computer.
Vj ~ That does not mean we evolve from one living organism. Rosa: If you have any interest in learning more about the details of evolutionary process, feel free to ask.
Vj ~ There is no other benefit in any process that is in violation of the immutable laws of nature, except to understand that it is false. If you have any interest in learning more about the details of immutable laws of nature, feel free to ask.Rosa: I will be pleased to direct you to the most legitimate, cutting-edge research available.
Vj ~ I will be more than happy to help you. Your "cutting-edge research" is rubbish in comparison to a truth that conforms with natural laws.
Dialogue 14
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Rebuttal from:harryll - October 08, 1999
Harry: VJ "tips his hand" with phrases like "your" science or "your" scientists...
Vj ~ Well, since it's your "REALITY" it must be "your" science also!Harry: His fixation is that a GURU has all of the answers and man, on his own, is helpless to understand or learn anything...
Vj ~ Man is helpless "to understand and or learn anything" without being taught, Harry! Harry: knowledge has progressed to the point that one can hardly pick a single aspect of science, ie geology, and expect to easily absorb all that is known to date...
Vj ~ And to date science still cannot find its own source or that of life harry! Harry: VJ wants the simplicity of saying that he HAS someone who already knows all these things and all anyone need do is ask VJ, who is on personal terms with this authority...
Vj ~ You too can be on personal terms with this authority, if you weren't so pig-headed, harry! Harry: Mankind need to learn by observation and test is reduced to simply asking VJ, or someone like him, what life and the world are all about....
Vj ~ And believe me I have a rational source, that did not come from observation only but a higher authority, which you don't harry! Harry: Under the guise of righteous religious authority, VJ can then expound all of his personal views and theories without the necessity of real and honest learning and knowledge....
Vj ~ How would you know what is "honest learning and knowledge" when all that you know are in violation of the immutable laws of nature, harry!Harry: One of the Christian common Biblical phrases is "by their fruits, you shall know them."....
Vj ~ Against our common Vedic phrase which is "by their actions, you shall know them" harry! Harry: VJ has never ever given any examples to demonstrate the "fruits" of his beliefs...
Vj ~ How could I, when it is not just a "belief" harry? Harry: For a religion that is near 5000 years old, that should be plenty of time to demonstrate all that he claims, but no such honest proofs or examples will now, or ever, be presented by VJ...
Vj ~ And how many thousands of years does your science need to give you its source or better yet that of life, so at least you would at least know your origin, harry?
Dialogue 15
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Rebuttal from:Rosamond - October 13, 1999
Vj ~I thought the evolution theory was based on one specific organism, an ape or a monkey. ~ If I am wrong, it was Darwin who did the misleading.
Rosa: Darwin never said the evolution theory applied to one specific organism....Darwin did not mislead you. Nobody misled you. You misled yourself with your own intractable ignorance.
Vj ~ It is obvious that you are as brainless as Darwin also. The claim that all evolved from one living organism maybe so, but an ape, with close human resemblance and DNA, would have had to be a step lower to a Neanderthal rather than a moth or a butterfly.Rosa: And now you have made public both your ignorance and your preference for ignorance over enlightenment.
Vj ~ Speaking of enlightenment, it is more in my favor since I have provided rebuttals to every factor for and against evolution, while you intentionally ignore those you have no answers for. Vj ~ It is obvious that if "the chemicals and energy present" is known to man (through science), why is that they (scientists) cannot produce life yet. Never mind life, how about producing a strand of hair or even a blade of grass.
Rosa: Actually, Miller and Urey are but two of the scientists who have shown it is relatively easy to produce amino acids and protein chains in the atmospheric conditions and from the basic elements present when earth was new.
Vj ~ Even better, now that "it is relatively easy" what is the delay in creating even a strand of hair or a blade of grass? Vj ~ That does not mean we evolve from one living organism. (V's reference to vegetation pattern in part of human genome)
Rosa: No, but the fact that all living organisms carry a common genetic trait and identical amino acid pattern is strong evidence we all share at least one common ancestor,
Vj ~ And how does this "strong evidence" supports the origin of language and the source of matter? Rosa: as repulsive as the thought is to me that you are a distant cousin of mine
Vj ~ Not a chance of that, since the source of my wisdom is as a result of being taught by one of higher learning. We were specially created.
Rosamond - October 15, 1999
Rosa: So far, nothing you have said about the "immutable law of nature" contradicts or disproved evolution.
Vj ~ The reproductive element is the cause of the physical body, steady and repeated occurrences, it is a law, no other creature can and if they do, then it must also be steady and repeated also. Get it lame brain! Rosa: You have failed to explain how evolutionary theory fails to follow VJ's personal "immutable law of nature".
Vj ~ Progression is always downwards and if we have now become civilized then it is progression upwards another breach to the immutable laws of nature. It is you who are ignorant of these laws.
Rosa: Some organs are multipurpose or have the potential to develop into a variety of uses.
Vj ~ If you can excrete through your mouth then I will admit my failure until then I will stand by my laws. Rosa: Any housewife who has ever cloned a houseplant can tell you she can take a stem or a leaf (that converts light into chlorophyl) and turn it into a root (that absorbs water through osmosis).
Vj ~ Not because you are jackass you think every one else is. Whatever stem or leaf take root it will bring forth the same type of plant and no other. Similarly, a monkey cannot screw a monkey and reproduce a human.Rosa: If the concept of "immutable law of nature" and "evolution" are not seen by VJ as compatible, it's obvious that the only thing "immutable" might be VJ's brain, which is used for one purpose only -- an activity ascribed by VJ to others' backsides.
Vj ~ If you are insinuating that my brain is in my backside, then what good is yours when it is non functional even though in the head?
Dialogue 16
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Rebuttal from: adrianm3 - October 15, 1999
Adrian: do some reading Mr Singh, At least know ur enemy.
Vj ~ Why read then, who needs enemies? Adrian: Even school children with any knowledge could tell u that evolution takes place over long periods of time.
Vj ~ School children only know what they are told or taught and if they are constantly drilled with the wrong knowledge that is what they will know, nothing else. The shame lies in you as an adult where you have failed to do extensive inquires to determine what is true.
Adrian: from the beginning , when this planet cooled and formed, right up to this day.
Vj ~ And what was there before the beginning and after it all ends? Don't you or they want to know that?Adrian: therefore evolution is gradual, not overnight which exactly what 1,000 years is.
Vj ~ The point is not whether creation or evolution is gradual it must be steady or repeated. If man evolved from ape, then it must be a steady occurrence not one time because no child come from a mother once, it is steady; rain does not come from the clouds once it is a steady function and so on.
Rosamond - October 16, 1999
Rosa: Steady and repeated occurrences of genetic adaptation to environmental change is a law, and it is demonstrated that all creatures undergo this.
Vj ~ So where is a lower creature became a human again and again (repeated occurrences) by "genetic adaptation" in keeping with the law?Rosa: It is steady and repeatable and observable, and as certain as the apes and humans descended from the same original animal.
Vj ~ How could it be "steady and repeatable and observable" when no creature for thousands of years have evolved into a human? Rosa: VJ obviously wants to forget his terrible and embarrassing blunder about evolution only applying to humans.
Vj ~ How is it an embarrassing blunder when no horse, monkey, donkey, dog, cat, pigs, tiger, etc. have evolved from any other creature but reproduced from their very own. Rosa: There is no evidence that progression is always downwards.
Vj ~ Then it won't be difficult for you to give me an example of a created or finite object that does not decay.Rosa: In fact that is almost an oxymoron.
Vj ~ So is evolution! Rosa: The entire concept of upward and downward is a meaningless value judgment that does not really apply even to mathematics.
Vj ~ It is law of nature that all things that are the combination of matter must return to matter, even mathematics.Rosa: It is not meaningful in the physical sense,
Vj ~ Why is it not, idiot, when all physical things, the physical body, a house, a car, a watch, a tree, etc. decay or die at sometime? Rosa: and even less meaningful when describing a change to a different environment.
Vj ~ Isn't the depletion of the ozone layer, the sun loosing its power, the extinction of rain forest and animals all point to decadence?Rosa: Oh, I was not insinuating that your brain is in your backside, sweetheart, I was insinuating that where most people have brains you have only shit.
Vj ~ It would be terribly embarrassing for you that who ever come to know this truth, that 'shit' in the head could prove to be superior to your supposedly brains in head. Rosa: Warm regards to match the warm smelly, stinky, crap that is lodged between your ears,
Vj ~ It makes me feel good that the "crap" is serving my intended purpose that you have actually touched (warm) and smelled (stinky) it.
Dialogue 17
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Rebuttal from:Rosamond - October 19, 1999
Rosa: Hmmm.... VJ is curious, and asking some serious questions. Interesting.
Vj ~ Seriously, it would have been sensible if the answers were intelligent ones.Vj ~ So how do you explain the "genetic adaptation" to the environment, of a creature evolving to a human being, a one time occurrence?
Rosa: Not every living organism is intended to evolve to homonid because it made steady and specific adaptations to a discrete set of environmental circumstances.....After a time, the species become so different even when reunited they are unable to interbreed.
Vj ~ Well then, are we to assume that homonid reproducing homonid would come to an end at sometime in the future also for the same reason? Also, because of steady and specific adaptations we can expect human to further evolve into something else, isn't it?Rosa: In time, VJ may be ready to learn about how the amino acid sequences provide evidence that is completely consistent with the idea of a common evolutionary history for the planet's living things.
Vj ~ Really, so if amino acid is the origin of life or life, why do living things die? If science cannot create life yet in spite of their knowledge of the origin why not immortality since it is obvious that this amino acid is plentiful. Rosa: This uniformity in gene code is evidence that all organisms alive share a common ancestor that can be traced back to the origins of life on earth.
Vj ~ The question is not the origin but the steady and repeated evolution of a creature to a human that did not occur again, a breach to the law. Rosa: Evolution is steady and repeatable and observable.
Vj ~ You are an idiot! The evolution of a lower creature to human is not steady and repeatable and observable. Then there is the question of learning which you have intentionally ignored. Since man had to be taught, who taught the first human? Can you come up with an intelligent living organism that did it?Rosa: VJ still attempts to recover from his terrible and embarrasing blunder about evolution only applying to humans
Vj ~ Why go to anything else when you haven't settled the issue of evolution of man? Rosa: The changes are usually gradual,
Vj ~ Even if it is gradual, it would be time for some creature to make changes to human since thousands of years have past but such is not the case.Rosa: New species develop from existing species through adaptation
Vj ~ The issue is not new species but lower creatures evolving to humans as steady and repeatable occurrences. Can you not get that lame-brain?Rosa: It's not as though a horse will suddenly foal a zebra!
Vj ~ Even if a horse foaled a zebra, it is still a breach natural laws if it does not occur repeatedly. Rosa: Genetic changes are gradual. Surely, VJ has noticed that not all humans are exactly alike.
Vj ~ They are still humans and reproduced by their own, a steady and repeated occurrences.Rosa: Only an idiot would...believe that the goal of all living creatures is to become human.
Vj ~ The goal is to establish what is true by conforming with the immutable laws of nature, if all creatures evolve to human then it would have been steady and repeated but such is not the case. Therefore your theory is false.Rosa: An organism is born, matures, replicates, dies, decays into raw material, is absorbed into other organisms, which grow, mature, replicate, etc.
Vj ~ Born from what? So now, the question of raw material, what is the source of matter?Rosa: The calcium in VJ's bone may have been calcium in the tooth of an ancient Tiger. The phosphorous in a blob of pterydactyl dung may now be the phosphorous in VJ's brain.
Vj ~ Have you done a test on his penis yet? Since you are the one who evolved from these creatures, it can only be possible with you. It seems you have evolved alright, but still have a donkey's brain.
Dialogue 18
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Rebuttal from:Harryll - October 20, 1999
Harry: Your egoism doesn't allow you to understand any of this...
Vj ~ At the very least my egoism has granted me the courage to argue against evolution in a rational way. My knowledge of both has indeed put me in a better position to argue, while I can't say the same for you.Harry: You can learn a lot through honesty and humility...
Vj ~ Where is your "honesty and humility" when it comes to putting even a little effort to investigate my truth (my site) to at least have a sensible argument? Do you think you can debate a subject as evolution and/or religion by having knowledge of one and not both? How can any intelligent person truly believe it can be done?
doob - October 24, 1999
doob: In case you hadn't noticed, homo sapiens already exist.
Vj ~ You are kidding me? doob: For whatever reason, natural selection did it's magic when the early homo sapiens arose from our ancestors.
Vj ~ Believe me, according to evolutionists natural selection is still doing magic, since it is indicative of nature's imperfection. According to it Nature is still improving. doob: Survival of the fittest. Homo sapiens were superior, so the inferior species died out.
Vj ~ Very strange, I always thought that strong parents produce strong kindred.doob: That explains why these "lower" creatures are not alive today, evolving into men.
Vj ~It only explains to me that you have no knowledge of the law which calls for steady and repeated occurrences of a function. doob: Obviously, a horse or cow isn't just going to turn into a person.
Vj ~Then again according to you, it is not impossible. Since it happened in the past why not in the future? Perhaps you are already a horse or a cow speaking the human language! doob: Modern man is a descendant of some great ape that has since become extinct since men took it's place. I will repeat, man evolved from the apes.
Vj ~ You better get your facts straight since I was told earlier that ape was not your early ancestors. doob: Some of you will want to dispute this, but if you have any knowledge of the classification of animals then you'll know that homo sapiens are primates, directly related to gorillas and monkeys of all sorts.
Vj ~ Have you told your kids that their great-great-grandparents could be an ape? It would rather be difficult to know who was who since they all look alike. doob: You cannot begin to argue this case because it is scientific fact.
Vj ~ I have been doing it all along and I found it to be more of irrational thoughts of idiots than science. doob: As a direct result of genetic traits or even mutations, these apes gave birth to our first human ancestors which paved the way for the evolution of that primitive human into the erect, opposable thumbed primates we are today.
Vj ~ Must have been one brilliant ape too, without science we would have been doomed.
harryll - October 24, 1999
harry: One of your worst hang-up is in thinking that men cannot learn anything by observation, that they must be "taught" everything by another..
Vj ~ An experiment was performed by Akbar the Great of India. He is said to have confined thirty babies with guards and nurses, and no one else could teach or even speak to them. At twelve years of age, all the children were brought before the Emperor and a vast assembly of linguists. To their astonishment none of the children could speak any language. This was genuine proof that mankind had to be taught. The human brought up by animals would have spoken their language and not his own. Suck on this one idiot!
oleca - October 24, 1999
Simian: Experts say that there has been life on earth for billions of years. If we actually did evolve from lower creatures, perhaps it took a little longer than a few thousand years, no?
Vj ~ A few thousand years have past where we as humans have seen no sign of any lower creatures, which has been in existence for billions of years, evolving into a human. Actually, our present time is now much longer than when the first human evolved. Get it!
Dialogue 19
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Rebuttal from: SimianLogic - October 24, 1999
Simian: the insanity just never ends.
Vj ~ How could it for a man as mad as you are?Simian: you count thousands of years as if they mean something to an earth that has been around for billions.
Vj ~ Five hundred years ago millions figured out that the earth was round, does it mean that the earth was flat and became round 500 years ago or that only the correct knowledge was then known? Similarly, if billions of years have past, shouldn't we have seen for atleast in the past few thousand years humans evolving into humans as natural law dictates steady and repeated occurrences? Simian: do you know how many zeros there are in one billion? thats a million-millions.
Vj ~ When you have got it figured out, multiply it by 5.999 and that is how many fools inhabit the planet.
Simian: on one hand you have a book over two thousand years old, translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to old English to middle e
English to the kings English to modern English, edited, revised and so on. then you have a branch of biology that has become known as the "golden thread" of the field, where one can find scholarly journals, text books, doctors, and the like studying everyday observing evolution in the world around us.
Vj ~ Very good, now explore and investigate a philosophy that is almost 2 billion years old.
doob - October 25, 1999
doob: Time and again, healthy parents have born mentally retarded or diseased children.
Vj ~ If you had any intelligence whatsoever, you would know that healthy parents can never produce unhealthy kins.doob: Which laws of nature are these, exactly?
Vj ~ Exactly the ones you brainless evolutionists don't know of and it is the reason why you twits accept such an idiotic theory of an intelligent specy evolving from a non-intelligent one. Since healthy parents bring forth healthy children, how on in heaven's name a non-intelligent creature can produce an intelligent specy?doob: because it is impossible. Horses and cows have a completely different genetic makeup than humans. Your "immutable laws of nature" should tell you this much.
Vj ~ It also tells me that any lower creature is of different genetic makeup and can never produce a human either, not now, never in the past and at no time in the future it can ever happen. doob: My question is: why did you begin this discussion in the first place?
Vj ~ The same reason you responded to it.
doob: What exactly is it that you believe, vj?
Vj ~ Click on any topic under my original post and it will lead you to what I know. Is that so difficult for you to do?
doob: Tell us what you think about evolution--every detail, every shred of evidence you can come up with--
Vj ~ If I saw Paul murdered Peter with his gun, why would I want to know who made the gun? Similarly, whatever theory in religion or science breaches the immutable laws of nature, it is enough evidence prove them all false. doob: it would only be fair considering all the people here who have posted, without any idea of what you are actually arguing against.
Vj ~ And who has been fair by investigating my philosophy to argue their case against me? If you had, you would by now have knowledge of these laws to be in a better position to refute. You argue for evolution and you don't know what the immutable laws of nature are. Do you call this intelligent? It would have made a lot sense to seek the knowledge of natural laws before attempting to refute my claims and this is only one argument of the many I have against evolution.
Dialogue 20
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Rebuttal from: doob - October 26, 1999
doob:You seem to speak of these immutable laws of nature often, yet even after my inquiry you still do not explain which laws of nature you speak of which evolution is in violation.
Vj ~ If you have no knowledge of these laws and its operations how would it make sense even if I explain it to you?doob: I do not appreciate being insulted by you, I did not come here to exchange "your mama" jokes I came here to have an intelligent conversation.
Vj ~ Why worry about insults when we have come without purpose? Whether I insult you or not we both have nothing to loose or gain in the end by it.doob: Unless you can refrain from any name-calling, I'm afraid I cannot continue to be involved in this conversation.
Vj ~ Grow up doob, even your primate ancestors wouldn't have behave like that which means humans were better off without language. Can you imagine an ape not offended by words at all?. doob: You seem to have some deep-seeded resentment for everyone who does not believe exactly as you believe.
Vj ~ It is resentment alright, but for ignorance and if you are offended it is for your own good. doob: Do you feel threatened by us, or do you just feel that your beleifs are threatened?
Vj ~ How could I feel threatened when you are the one who is offended? How could my belief be threatened, when it is challenging your theory of evolution of man from a lower creature?doob: I still have not seen you say one meaningful thing... Prove me wrong.
Vj ~ Easy you are an idiot. Idiots are never wrong. You are an example of what I meant of unhealthy parents bringing forth unhealthy (static intellect) kin. Now for the immutable laws of nature if your static intellect can figure it out, works this way. It is repeated and steady from beginning to end and never cease. Example, from birth to now and until you die excretion is by the backside and never once through the mouth or ears, etc. The source of the physical body is the reproductive element meaning that a human can only be a product of a human, a steady and repeated occurrence and never once from an ape. harryll - October 25, 1999
harry: You say that 20 children, removed entirely from human contact never "learned" any of the common languages used in the world...
Vj ~ It simple means that they couldn't communicate with each other. harry: Without contact with others, this would not be "learning", but "inventing"....
Vj ~ Man need to communicate with language even when in observation of nature much less inventing. You are a born jackass if you don't know that animals could have easily observed the same way and invent language and made progress intellectually like man. Do you know why they didn't? Why would they have even bothered evolving into human in the first place?
harry: Your foolish mythological story then claims that exampled "failure" to be proof of Man's inability to learn anything on his own...
Vj ~ If all humans had the ability to learn on their own, then all nations should have progressed evenly, but such is not the case.
harry: That example of reasoning goes beyond just being childish, you are certifiably and demonstrably crippled in having ANY abilities of rational thought.......
Vj ~ And if you do have abilities of rational thoughts I am quite sure the source was not only the observation of nature without a language.
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth Translation
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