Responses:
Dialogue 1
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Stephen Charchuk - October 29, 1999
And how do you actually prove that one has the "One True God Or Religion"?
Vj ~ When religion is in harmony with reason and science and in conformity with the immutable laws of nature.
In other words, never.
Vj ~ Never, if you choose not to investigate.
Oh, please. People have been searching for thousands of years and not one has ever come up with anything real.
Vj ~ How would you, like them, know when, where and how to look for anything real? It is an excellent idea to be agnostic especially when there are doubts, but must you remain there? Besides if you are like them, how would you know what I have, is real or not?
People believe only because they choose to. It's called religious faith.
Vj ~ It is called lack of reasoning (static intellect) and if even though reasoning, you as an example, is the first step, it isn't enough without the correct knowledge which must be in harmony with science and in conformity with natural laws. Hello Stephen Charchuk - November 01, 1999
Vj ~ How would you, like them, know when, where and how to look for anything real?
Easy, produce god.
Vj ~ It would have been easy if a few Greek philosophers could have produced a spherical earth too, it would have saved their lives from the fools who couldn't be convinced by subjective knowledge.
Show me something real and truly unrefutible and we'll talk.
Vj ~ If I could, what would be the need to discuss it? If you weren't a fool, you would know that it is the unreal and the refutable that necessitate discussions, arguments or debates.
Do I have to explain what the difference between science and religion is again and why they can never be the same?
Vj ~ That would depend on what religion in particular you would want to explain. There isn't much you can explain about your science either, since you know nothing of the Vedic faith, the source of all sciences which you haven't made any attempt to refute yet. Any theory, in religion or science that breaches the immutable laws of nature, is false.
If you want religion to be harmonized with science then it stops being religion and vice versa.
Vj ~ That is subjected to the religion(s) and science as far as you know, and not necessary all that should be known.
Vj ~ It would have been easy if a few Greek philosophers could have produced a spherical earth too, it would have saved their lives from the fools who couldn't be convinced by subjective knowledge.
In other words, you can't.
Vj ~ Not really, it is easier to prove you an idiot, then I don't have to be burden with the task of enlightening you.
It is very easy to prove that the Earth is a globe.
Vj ~ So why only at the time of Columbus, or 500 years ago, that most people knew the earth was round and not before? Are you saying that these philosophers were at a disadvantage in intelligence as oppose to you?
All religions are basically the same, yours is no different. You still have no idea what science is.
Vj ~ How would you know of my idea of science, if basically you haven't investigated my religion?
Religion doesn't have theories, to them everything claimed to be from their god, or gods, is absolute truth.
Vj ~ Your science still does not speak of your scientific theories to be rational ones either, since whatever is truth now, is subjected to changes in the future as it did in the past.
That is religion and science as far as you know and not necessary all that should be known.
Ridiculous.
Vj ~ Whatever makes sense to the wise, naturally, is always ridiculous for an idiot.
Some people just never change.
Vj ~ It simple means the change have already occurred a long time ago..
Without change, or growth, there is only death..
Vj ~ The change is to know what happens after death.
And to do that one must die. You first and than come back and tell us all about it.
Vj ~ Why aren't you listening then, when I speak of reincarnation?
Cygnus: Don’t encourage him
Stephen: I'm very familiar with him as well. We've "debated" in this in the past as well and he lost every time.
Vj ~ I only wonder why the 'winners' would do the abandoning? By what means or source do you determine your ideas to be true? I hope it is not too difficult a question. I really don't want to scare you fellas away again.
Dialogue 2
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Rebuttal from: masked_1 - September 20, 2000
Masked: you have to have learned the scientific method.
Vj ~ It is your scientific method that violates the immutable laws of nature and that is what I am questioning. But if you are ignorant of the knowledge of natural law and its orderly functions then there is really not much you can argue for evolution in a rational way.Masked: It make you sound as dumb as you are.
Vj ~So what's wrong with that when your "dumb" (illiterate) ancestors were brilliant enough to invent language. Masked: human beings did not come from something half ape half man.
Vj ~ You must be kidding lame-brain, so who gave rise to ape-men of a primitive age.
Masked: for example your little language reference makes zero sense.
Vj ~ As long as there are schools of learning it makes all the sense in the world. I can't see how illiterate jungle men invented language on their own, when we, with more to observe in a more civilized world, have to be taught.
Masked: Every animal knows how to communicate with members of its own species.
Vj ~ No doubt about it, you two jackasses (yourself and harryll) being a perfect example. Now if you fellas can only learn to communicate with intelligent humans who have sound knowledge of natural laws the evolutionary theory could be rationally answered in no time.
Masked: People are studying it all the time.
Vj ~ What you idiots should be studying is natural laws instead. You wouldn't want to learn to communicate with a cow, where the end eventually leads to a steak meal.
Masked: obviously the more complex an animal is the more complex that communication will be.
Vj ~ Since natural laws are complex to you, it would mean that you have not fully evolved either.
Masked: no ones denying the complexity and intelligence of human beings.
Vj ~ How would you know animals aren't? Especially the ones you daily slaughter to appease your appetite, they would agree.
Masked: have you ever heard of how young twins have been found to create their own personal languages
Vj ~ Any language is a possibility from a source language.
Masked: if you think this is possible why wouldn't you believe that the human race as a whole could do the same thing.
Vj ~ How could it be the same, if they were brought up by wolves? It would have been the language of the wolves that they would come to know and nothing else. As long as they were exposed to some kind of human language (learning), past inclination of the soul (by reincarnation) plays a major role of further advancement.
Masked: Are you so arrogant that you can't relate yourself to lesser animals can't see that you and they have anything in common
Vj ~. I do relate to them, compunction prevents me from murdering these innocent creatures for my diet or sport.
Masked: the way you waste your intellect and the way you use fantasy to hide your unwillingness to understand is sad.
Vj ~ If you are sad it is because of your own stupidity. Strive for wisdom and you will understand that there is even a purpose for an idiot like you on this planet
Dialogue 3
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Rebuttal from:masked_1 - September 24, 2000
Vj - (To masked_1 &Harryll) Vj ~ It can really be noisy when two jackasses try to bray at the same time. Masked: HA HA HA *rolling in the aisles* Let me catch my breath.
Vj ~ You could be a tumbleweed blowing in the wind but too stupid to know it.
Vj ~It is your scientific method that violates the immutable laws of nature and that is what I am questioning. But if you are ignorant of the knowledge of natural law and its orderly functions then there is really not much you can argue for evolution in a rational way.
Masked: The scientific method 1. Observe something in the universe. 2. make a hypothesis about how it works. 3. Test your hypothesis. 4. Adjust hypothesis to fit results 5. Every other scientist that is interested checks to see if they can produce the same results whatever immutable laws could this possibly be violating.
Vj ~ The "hypothesis" that only the evolution of a human from a lower creature occurred only once is a breach to natural laws.
Masked: Like I said before you obviously don't know what your talking about.
Vj ~ The law never dictated that you shit from your mouth at one time and then changed to being steady by the backside. You are a dunce, void of all knowledge of the functions of natural laws.
Masked: i know you will still refuse to use the brain god so unfortunately gave to you.
Vj ~ It is still a better preference over the one some ape gave to you.
Masked: harryll - VJ has not only sacrificed honesty and reality in his insane quest to promote his religion, he has relinquished all vestiges of HONOR as well....
Vj ~ What honor is there jackass to die not knowing where you came from and your destination? harryll
Harry: No Ritewing...You don't have to be just a "towel-head", you can also be a mental midget
Vj ~ In a world of perverted intellects you would have had his support even without a response jackass.
Harry: who believes that NOTHING done by mankind in the last few thousand years has any worth at all...
Vj ~ If you are referring to your kind you are correct. Anything done that has no bearing on the emancipation of the soul is indeed fruitless.
Harry: Does that sound like someone you and I know here on this board.?????
Vj ~ If that is all you and him know of me, then you both might as well remain jackasses since evolution of man brought them nothing more but burden.
Harry: Try looking at the everyday life of Afghanistan people to see where the stupidity of your (religion at all costs) philosophy really leads...
Vj ~ By the same reasoning your science should be denounced also since Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Chernobyl are examples of where the stupidity of your science led. Don't forget the (highly scientific) war machines of Nazi Germany that have led to 20 million deaths.
Hello Ritewing2
RW: Harryll, you are so right.
Vj ~ One jackass proud of the other, is not something rare in a world of static intellects.
RW: These Vedic boneheads only need to look at India to see what their lovely religion has brought them in terms of enlightenment.
Vj ~ Logically speaking, who would seek to plunder a country that had nothing? In spite of those who plundered her through out the ages, she still has everything, and will continue to be the cradle of all civilization.
RW: Gross poverty, indifference, apathy, and shear bone laziness. And folks like V.J Dingbat love to keep such folks in these conditions so that he can feel superior to others.
Vj ~ It is is those who have rejected and reviled the one true religion of the Vedas and plundered and raped India that are reincarnated in those conditions. It is divine justice dispensed impartially my friend and your turn will soon come also.
RW: This is why Mr. Dingbat is the way that he is on this board, an arrogant bastard who thinks he can pawn his B.S. on the western world.
Vj ~ Well, if this is the way you think of someone who is merely trying to save a bigot's soul from the impending state of destitution, then you are truly deserving of it.
RW: What he just can't seem to understand is that we westerners are not going to be duped by his religious idiocy, for no other reason than its condescending tone.
Vj ~ You are free to decide what you want to be or do, and so am I, free to disseminate the true wisdom of the Vedic religion. Either way I see no harm since souls are needed also for vegetation, animals, and low human conditions, etc.
RW: Besides that, it is completely ignorant of the knowledge that has been gained in the last milenia.
Vj ~ If only you knew of the knowledge that existed long before you would hardly call the knowledge of "last milenia" knowledge.
RW: This guy is one dumb bozo who is winning no converts and no respect.
Vj ~ What reward can that be in earning respect from a bunch of fools?
RW: In essence he preaches to himself and thus only impresses himself.
Vj ~ Perhaps, if you weren't the idiot you are, you would have realized that it is those who preached to themselves are more apt to ingrain good reasoning habits and why shouldn't I be impressed with that?
RW: He probably kisses his mirror too.
Vj ~ Why not, it is the only wise person around.
Dialogue 4
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Rebuttal from: Ironflames - September 26, 2000
Iron: harryll... I can not believe you are still yelling at the Shake & Bake King of the Toilet Religion.
Vj ~ This is great! Step aside harryll instead let me (Ironflames) do the yelling.
Iron: I see he has a Masked Idiot with him.
Vj ~ Me, Tonto never go nowhere without Kemo Sabby.
Iron: What happened to the Jewelled Tartcart, is she still swallowing the shit out of VJ's oft- used, c*ck plundered, Ass.
Vj ~ So have you returned to swallow what's left? Iron: You know that he is a fudge packer who bangs his cowshit licking master every morning and everynight.
Vj ~ It makes me happy, and since it pisses you off, I am even happier.
Iron: VJ f*ck off and die you shit colored freak of an animal.
Vj ~ Boy you are pissed. Gosh! It gives me such great delight when a "colored freak of an animal" can piss an idiot off so bad.
Iron: And I apologize to all animals I have offended.
Vj ~ What about the ones you have already eaten?
Hello Rosamond
Rosa: ritewing: I totally agree that VJ is a moron.
Vj ~ No problem! I hope you don't believe such an "agreement" is rare otherwise it would be progression upwards - another breach to natural laws.
Rosa: I mean that's just so apparent even you are able to see that.
Vj ~ If you think Christians, Hindus and Muslims, etc are superstitious and stupid you may have a conflict of intellect since they see "that" too.
Rosa: However, the Vedic religion is no more responsible for India's poverty than Christianity is responsible for U.S. prosperity, and if you knew anything about climate and economics you would know that..
Vj ~ If only early monkeys knew what the future held, I am quite sure they would have preferred to remain monkeys to roam the jungles, free of "climate and economics".
Hello harryll
Harry: Hello again VJ...The events you mentioned were the results of human stupidity, hatred and intolerance, they certainly aren't the automatic result of science...
Vj ~ By the same reasoning, don't you think that human "stupidity, hatred and intolerance" can occur when true knowledge is rejected and reviled also? Furthermore, since a stupid layman knows nothing of nuclear technology, it would have to take an 'intelligent' scientist to carefully explain its placement and setting off.
Hello Ritewing2
RW: I sure hope this year it goes better at Christmas. Last year I was a little tipsy on xmas eve.
Vj ~ "These Vedic boneheads only need to look at India to see what their lovely religion has brought them in terms of enlightenment."
Some "enlightenment" your Western philosophy has brought you.
RW: I threw up during the candlelight service during the quiet time all over the lady in front of me. It reeked beer and cheese, it made me puke even more. The worst part about it was that my wife was loaded too and she forgot to change the baby's diaper and things just reeked even worse. She cried so hard, and I got ticked off at her and I got up and slipped and fell on the lady I threw up on. Then, the diaper came undone and soaked into the material of the pew.
Vj ~ "Gross poverty, indifference, apathy, and shear bone lazyness. And folks like V.J Dinghbat love to keep such folks in these conditions so that he can feel superior to others."
It seems your condition is no better than "such folks" in India. Are you trying to make me feel superior also? Hello IronFlames
Iron: Jewelled... you know I missed you.
Vj ~ "..is she still swallowing the shit out of VJ's oft- used, c*ck plundered, Ass.
Boy, what a hypocrite!
Iron: I still can not see why you believe in this fraud, his religion is one thing, but this numbnuts thinks he is actually a vessel of God.
Vj ~ Well, it is obvious if you don't know God you will not be able to recognize His "vessel".
Iron: Can you imagine that?
Vj ~ Perhaps it makes better sense to, than to believe one who called her a shit-swallower.
Iron: That self proclaimed dimwit being a vessel of God. Wow, we are in more trouble that I thought. So why, why, why?
Vj ~ Now that you are aware of the "trouble" I hope you will strive to seek the correct knowledge and be free of the ignorance that has plagued you all your life.
Hello IronFlames
Iron: ShitJ... I was being condescending to Jewwell, halfwit.
Vj ~ Makes no difference when you are still an idiot.
Iron: You are a vessel, now sail your Ass back to what ever little crack-head land you come from.
Vj ~ It is exactly what the Native Americans have been saying for centuries to you idiots who forcibly took their country, but no one is listening. They did the same all over the world especially India leaving them destitute and even though the wealth came to the New world the natives are still paupers in their own country. If you are not honest you simply cannot teach anyone how to be honest. So why should I listen to you?
Hello AArrow1
AA: For example once the settlers knew Indians had no natural defense against small pox, infected blankets were sent to the first peoples, knowing the disease would kill thousands.
Vj ~ You might as well add the whole of the Mayan and Inca civilization to the list of barbaric Europeans holocausts in the Americas. The natives of the Americas were an advance civilization perhaps on its way down when the Europeans discovered the New World. They (Spaniards) were surprised to find civilized people, instead of naked savages as they had expected, cities with paved roads and luxurious, well-to-do and low-income dwellings in Central America.
"In 1517 the Spanish explorers were struck with disbelief by the advanced state a civilization far away from their own in Central America. Instead of naked and timid savages they were found be governed by powerful monarchs. A system of government and established laws that promoted organized societies. Their skill in arts and manufacturing of magnificent dwellings dazzled the eyes of the new comers.
The city of Mexico with roads, thirty feet in width and extending two to three miles in length. The temples, the palaces and the houses of the aristocrats were gigantic and magnificent structures and the poorer class lived in little huts. The most striking was the great temple in the principle square called Teocalli, that is, the house of God. It was built in honour of Tezcatlopia, the Supreme Being and Maritli the god of war. It consisted of a substituted pyramid formed by five terraces ascended by broad flights of steps. Its base was 318 feet long, and its perpendicular height 121 feet. On top of the pyramid were seated the sacrificial stone and statues of the Gods covered with plates of Gold." Atheism:The path to the one true God.
Dialogue 5
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Rebuttal from:Hello IronFlames - September 26, 2000
Iron: VJ...oh yes I know those Europeans were the worst people in the history of the world, Jerkoff.
Vj ~ While you are at it you can add the Moghul (Muslims) barbarians to the list too.
Iron: If you knew anything what so ever about human evolution and colonization you would know that we all come from somewhere else.
Vj ~ Perhaps, but definitely not from a monkey.
Iron: What do you think poof we all just appeared on our lands.
Vj ~ Well why should that surprise you, was it not "poof" (big-bang) that everything else appeared?
Iron: Yes, I know, India would have been so much better off if the British were not there.
Vj ~ How could it be possible for an idiot know that?
Iron: India is a cesspool and a land that is utterly useless, a disease ridden, smelly chunk of ground that has no use to the world what so ever.
Vj ~ Whatever her (India) condition is, she is still deserving of your gratitude.
"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace; human speech, the mother of history, grandmother of legend, and great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only." Mark Twain
Iron: Your stupid ass people think the Cow is sacred, how f---ing dumb can you be?
Vj ~ Not if you are aware that -"There is no turpitude in drinking wine, eating flesh and committing adultery, for that is the natural way of created beings, but abstinence brings great reward." Manu
Iron: Don't feel bad Pakistan and India is, thankfully going to blow each other to pieces.
Vj ~ Not much of a disaster considering your technology's threat to good environment. Hello AArow1
AA: Anyway, while Europeans had no right to do what they did, we can't change it and holding onto grudges won't do anything.
Vj ~ I agree with you, but the point I am making is that if cultures (Christianity, Islam, etc.) brought many nothing else but pain and misery in the past, it is hardly likely to do any different in the future. Therefore, one must strive to do comparative studies of all ideologies available to ascertain what can bring universal harmony.
Hello harryll
Harry: VJ IS AN UGLY THROW-BACK TO ALL PAST INJUSTICES....
Vj ~ The wisdom of a jackass in printed materials. You are yet to refute my faith as I have done of evolution. Get it jackass!
AA: It isn't your religion that I refute, it's YOUR descriptions of Truth and Reality....
Vj ~ Well jackass, if you weren't that stupid you would have done some inquires into my religion and tell me how it differs from my "descriptions of Truth and Reality". You are indeed a travesty to simple common sense and an absolute disgrace to all scientific knowledge known to man.
Hello luuup
lu: Vijai Singh, I can not yet say that I agree with the current ideas about macro evolution but have been reading up to get a full understanding.
Vj ~ I trust that you would only attempt to do so after examining both sides with utmost impartiality. And keep in mind, that whatever the theory or fact arrived at, it must be in conformity with natural laws.
lu: I don't know if it came from a dream or what but the idea was that dinosaurs didn't go extinct because of something on a global level.
Vj ~ It would serve you better to know what happens to the soul after you have become extinct.
Hello AArrow1
AA: Vj, hey...uh, well, I've read the info on your links you keep posting and I have to say you haven't provided a single argument that refutes evolution.
Vj ~ I couldn't agree with you more and it has been the same for all those who have come here so far. They all lack the ability to comprehend the true functions of the immutable laws of nature.
AA: Indeed, you argument seems to be based on an assumption that evolution has an end goal of producing human beings... ( you write?:
Vj ~ Whatever its end goals are, whether be humans, monkeys, birds, fishes or extra terrestial beings these events must be steady as dictated by the immutable laws of nature and never a one time occurrence. If the law was of a constant and permanent nature, ever working itself out, how was it that for thousands of years past, no lower creature had evolved into a human being?
AA: However, evolution doesn't have goal, it just is.
Vj ~ Doesn't it surprise you one bit that everything else has a goal (or purpose) except evolution?
AA: A species adapts and changes until a new species evolves. If you ran the whole process over again you would have no guarantee you would end up with an intelligent talking animal at all.
Vj ~ That is not what my argument is all about. I could care less of what adaptations or changes occur in the whole process of evolution but whatever it brings forth (especially humans) must be "of a constant and permanent nature, ever working itself out". It simply means that rain did not come from anywhere else before it decided to constantly drop from the clouds. AA: The point is, we are the product of a process that doesn't have a intelligence guiding it.
Vj ~ The how do you explain the planet never leaving its orbit or why a tornado hitting a scrap-metal yard never produced a 747 as the accidental "big bang" brought about order and design?
AA: Your "proofs" of God's existence are theologically driven and you haven't provided any tangible evidence to back them up.
Vj ~ What "tangible evidence" do you have that oxygen exists? The invisible (God) must first be researched by subjective means guided by the one that is source of all ethics and morals, science and in conformity with natural laws.
AA: Also, you always refer to a "natural law" however, this too has no basis in science.
Vj ~ How could it have basis in your science when you know little or nothing of its true functions? This is the sole reason why most scientific theories are full of holes and keep changing as new discoveries are made. The sad part is that you will die like so many before knowing what truth it may discover in the future. For example, if it does find out that you have a soul that reincarnates into conditions of misery and happiness depending on your knowledge of a creator, it would mean that you would have literally condemned yourself to births after births of misery which so common today that it can hardly be deniable.
AA: It is a philosophical statement that you could never test rationally. Your natural law isn't at all like, say the laws of thermodynamics of gravitational constants. They are theological in nature.
Vj ~ When you would have come to know of a theology that is in harmony with science you would know it to be scientific also.
AA: (You don't vote for the Natural Law Party by any chance do you?)
Vj ~ I don't vote, period? If the wise are in the minority, it is your guess who elects a government?
AA: I would suggest that you might want to try to keep your religion and science separate. I would wager both would make more sense that way.
Vj ~I would suggest, as any intelligent person should do, to first investigate my religion before making such a "suggestion." Re-post #1701
AA: Still, I wonder why VJ would think evolution only applies to humans? The evolutionary path followed by dinosaurs, for example, is clearly found in the fossil record.
Vj ~ I am not saying that it only applies to humans, I am specifically questioning your theory of man evolving from a lower creature as breaching the law by not being steady.
AA: VJ, how do you explain that? (and please, don't direct me to another link, just provide an answer. Your links weren't very helpful
Vj ~ Very simple, if your "fossil record" is of no benefit to those in the past, I see it as an injustice. According to your theories many at present would be denied the best, which is yet to come.
AA: Rosamond: Observation of today's life forms will also make it clear that intelligence is also not critical to survival - the cockroach, for example.
Vj ~ Only true, if either the cockroach could make the same observation or you having the intelligence of a cockroach.
Dialogue 6
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Rebuttal from: AArrow1 - September 28, 2000
AA: And VJ...sorry pal, you just not making any sense.
Vj ~ If I did, I would have called you wise!
AA: Why didn't the wind build a 747? What are you smoking?
Vj ~ And what are you smoking to believe that it accidentally created a universe with design, purpose, law and order?
AA: Because the wind and metal aren't biological and aren't governed by evolution driven by natural selection that’s why!
Vj ~ It (wind or gas) must have, since from matter it is the next element formed to produce heat/electricity which in turn produced liquid and finally solids (metal). Or is the science you brag about hasn't taught you this (five elements) yet?
AA: If I took to the time to try and answer all your points, I would be here all day.
Vj ~ Perhaps, but all that you now know didn't happen in less than a day.
AA: But a I would say this to one of you questions (what is my proof of oxygen)...I can trap O2, test it, break it down to its component parts, experiment with it.
Vj ~ You are not listening my friend! The invisible (God) must first be researched by subjective means guided by the correct knowledge only then it can become a reality. As centuries of research in science has enable you in much of you life time to propagate new found theories, so is research and time necessary to explore the existence of a supernatural being.Have you taken the time to explore the link provided, as you have for the research of O2?
AA: You can't do that with god. Why? because the existence of god is a matter of faith that has NOTHING to do with science.
Vj ~ Perhaps you are right, but again I am asking you, what do you know of my faith to come to such a conclusion?
Hello AArrow1
AA: Vj, buddy, its clear you don't understand evolution at all
Vj ~ If you meant the evolution of a completely illiterate ape-man invented something as complex as language, you are right?
AA: The wind is not subject to natural selection. Neither is heat, neither is metal.
Vj ~ Is it not the elements that create the appropriate conditions that enable evolution (manifestations) to take place?
AA: The "five elements" you are referring to are part of Chinese and ancient Greek philosophy, not modern science.
Vj ~ If you knew anything of science at all you would know that "modern science" could not have been possible without the existing five elements.
AA: As for your links and "correct knowledge" and so on, well, I read your links. They contain very little information and what is there is not exactly convincing.
Vj ~ I am quite sure you didn't find evolution "convincing" at the very first glance of Darwin's theory. Furthermore, I am not the one to convince anyone of the truth, it is a requirement of one's own individual effort, after being shown the way (correct knowledge).
AA: If you want to overturn current theories of human evolution, you have a long way to go
Vj ~ For me, it has already been overturned - a breach to natural laws. Whenever those come to know of these laws they will be in agreement with me also.
AA: Whether you believe me to be "wise" or not, is of no matter.
Vj ~ It is, when wisdom is to know the true functions of natural laws.
Hello IronFlames
Iron: VJ…. Is it not true that…. (Quoted directly from Vedic religion).
Vj ~ It is obvious that mythology became a religion (Hinduism) because of ignorance by false interpretation of true Vedic scripture and if you must quote on Vedic religion, you must first know what books are based on the origin of Divine revelation (Vedas).
Iron: The Padma Purana describes there are 8,400,000 species of life within this universe.
Vj ~ To me, it is more important to know how not to ever become one of the 8,399,999 lower species.
Iron: This universe is going through cycles. Sometimes it is manifested and sometimes it is unmanifested but even when there is no manifested material world all the forms of the 8,400,000 species of life are still there on the subtle platform.
Vj ~ This is very true of the cycles and manifestations but I have no idea of what the specific amount of species are.
Iron: Every species is existing at all times but they may not all be present on any given planet.
Vj ~ However, "we believe in the pre-existence of all things in Nature, and in their later manifestation, not as an originality, but as a manifestation of a pre-existing substance, lying latent in its bosom. Therefore, whatever comes into existence, must have had a pre-existence in Nature." Vedic Philosophy.
Iron: Now that is the most Asinine thing I have ever heard. Explain to me how this can be.
Vj ~ Explaining it is very simple, but the problem of comprehending lies with the idiot who ask the question. No one enters university without first going through elementary schooling, so too, you must first know of the soul before understanding the purpose of different conditions that must first be created before 8,400,000 species can be manifested.
Dialogue 7
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Rebuttal from: IronFlames
Iron: VJ... Let me see if I got this right.
Vj ~ Perhaps, in this birth or the next if the effort is made now!
Iron: If a human acts like a monkey and lives his/her life that way then they are bound to come back as a monkey.
Vj ~ Or worst!
Iron: But if a monkey acts like a human than he will still come back as a monkey because he/she is a lower life form.
Vj ~ How can a monkey act like a human when it is stupor?
Iron: So what happens if a human acts so holy and godlike that he can only progress upwards? He can not according to you because your religion says all things progress downward, right?
Vj ~A child is the epitome of "holy and godlike" as the child grows the lost of innocence and purity goes with it unless the child as an adult can maintain it by the practice of true religion. So it is not progress, when an adult who is prone to sinful actions, is trying to become as pure as he/she was once as a child.
Iron: What you are saying essentially is that humans have always been humans and monkeys have always been monkeys?
Vj ~ If it weren't so what would deter you from sinning? It is human souls by sinful actions that are relegated to lower creatures, when that period of lower births (sentence) is over they are born again as human beings
Iron: If that is what you are saying than how did the human race ever get anywhere if we are constantly digressing?
Vj ~ The same reason why our prisons are never over flowing. While many are released after their sentences, more are being sentenced. The same with reincarnation. Humans have digressed spiritually and will continue to be so until the end.
Iron: What I know is that Humans for millions of years have progressed FORWARD...physically and mentally... is that not evolution of our species.
Vj ~ Shows that you know shit all. For one, universal "progress forward" is a breach to natural laws and thus it is rational to infer that humans were most civilized (wise or righteous) in the very beginning, you (perverted intellect) being the example of what they are now.
Iron: We are certainly not like the first man who walked the Earth, plain third grade science explains that.
Vj ~ We have been walking this universe for almost 2 billion years and will continue to do so for another 2 billion. So you have a lot of time to make some progress if you so desire.
Iron: So I only see one way we have gone backwards and that is spiritually.
Vj ~ Now you talking some sense, the food for the soul is true spirituality rejection of it dooms the soul to births after births of pain and misery. And remember ignorance is no excuse for breaching the law.
Iron: With all the stuff we know today you would think we would be more in tune with each other and the world, except we are not.
Vj ~ We stand divided because the masses have rejected rationalism for credulity and whatever few atheists are free from it (credulity) they must now abandon the theory of evolution and seek guidance from the correct knowledge which is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with the immutable laws of nature. Iron: Today, religion causes more turmoil and grief in the world than any other thing I can think of.
Vj ~ True, it shows how much we have distanced ourselves from the one religion to many opposing ones now. As Einstein said - "Religion without science is blind and science without religion is lame ". We can only find truth by ingraining proper reasoning habits and it should be no trouble for those who desire the truth since my site shows the way.
Hello AArrow1
AA: As for "ape men" as you call them, from all indications they had linguistic abilities.
Vj ~ What zoo were you visiting lately? If the chimp grabbed your book do you really think he was trying to read it? Better yet, why do we need schools when our "linguistic abilities" are far more advanced today?
AA: Why is it so hard for you to accept that human evolved from another form?
Vj ~ There are laws unchangeable that govern the orderly functions of this universe and its inhabitants - a human from any lower form, instinctive knowledge the origin of acquired knowledge and primitive to highly scientific minds - progression upwards are all evolutionists' theories, and they are all in violation of these laws.
AA: Moreover, (perhaps you could start reading Chomsky for starters) it appears language is "hard wired" into our brains, developed through evolution.
Vj ~ Perhaps if Chomsky was brought by an ape and became a scientist before coming in contact with our age of learning, it would be a good reason to believe him.
AA: This has nothing to do with the five elements of fire, wind, metal, wood, and water, or whatever combination you think is right.
Vj ~ Metal and wood are of the same element - solid. You missed one! Could be the same reason for missing on evolution also.
AA: Finally, I suggest you actually try reading the Origin of Species by Darwin. Natural selection does not apply to wind, or metal. It applies only to a living organism. Yes, some of the same particles that make up metal can be found in living creatures.
Vj ~ It wouldn't matter what natural selection applies to, when it is suggesting that the best in nature is yet to come - progression upwards, it is a breach to natural laws.
AA: Evolution is about the development of a living species, not a chunk of rock!
Vj ~ So where did the rock came from if it did not evolve out of something?
AA: As well, I would suggest there is no such thing, biologically speaking, as a "lower creature." Each species has adapted to its own environment.
Vj ~ Any creature that lacks human intelligence is a form of a lower creature
AA: And please, stop with the links already. I'm sure everyone here would like to you see write an intelligent answer for once.
Vj ~ At the very least, it is my own and not someone else's. Do you really think an idiot can comprehend an intelligent answer? My understanding of an idiot is one who argues for a scientific theory or a religion that breaches the immutable laws of nature.
Dialogue 8
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Rebuttal from:Hello AArrow1
AA: Holy Cow! Vj, you have just won the prize for the most ridiculous post of the year.
Vj ~ At the very least, the cow will provide milk, by far a better "prize" than listening to an ignorant evolutionist.
AA: Man alive. Chomsky was taught by and ape? Now I have heard it all. Do you even know who Noam Chomsky is?
Vj ~ I don't even know you, but a fool propagating his thoughts or writings doesn't make him sensible.
AA: Do you know what linguistics are?
Vj ~ Linguists are complete illiterates who knew neither how to read nor write but somehow 'invented' language .
AA: And I didn't say chimps could talk, although you can teach gorilla's to use a simple sign language.
Vj ~ Rather strange isn't it? I wonder how they survived when they had to rely on their offspring (man) to teach them.
AA: What I said was that our evolutionary ancestors had the ability to talk, though perhaps they did not communicate as we do.
Vj ~ They must have had better abilities to communicate since there is no mention of hair-scalping then.
AA: And are you saying that "solid" is an element?
Vj ~ So are liquid, electricity, gas and space (matter). Your science is all rubbish and standing alone it cannot educate man to the slow orderly and scientific creation of the universe.
AA: What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Vj ~ It meant that matter in its primitive and subtle form changes from elements to elements, with each change making it (matter) less subtler or grosser to arrive at the last element which is solid.
AA: "Solid" is a state of matter not a particular element.
Vj ~ The state of matter is called an element. This is why I gave you the five elements of space/matter, gas/air, heat/electricity, liquid and solid. In that order the universe was created.
AA: You know, I refuse to believe anyone can be this dense.
Vj ~ Well if you believe your origin is from some chimp in the past, I would have to agree with you. It is not such a bad word either since they, (your ancestors) were obviously "dense" but yet invented the language you now speak.
AA: Pls tell me you are trying to pull our legs VJ.
Vj ~ It is far more serious than that, I am trying to tell you how stupid you are.
Hello Rosamond
Rosa: Aarrow: "Holy Cow, VJ"!?! Oh, that is very funny. Score one for you.
Vj ~ Now that you're back Rosa I am still awaiting your answer of a question previously asked. "Since SIN is associated with GOD and there is no GOD, it follows that there is no sin, so according to the theory of scientific evolution what prevented you from having sex with your father?"
Hello AArrow1
AA: Alas, poor VJ, I knew him Horatio....
Vj ~ Alas, poorer AArrow, I knew him Geronimo....
AA: Seriously, you clearly have no knowledge of evolutionary theory VJ.
Vj ~ And haven't you noticed that you have no knowledge of natural laws either?
AA: First, man did not evolve from apes as you seem to suggest. Evolution says man and ape have a common ancestor, which accounts for out immense similarity to chimps and gorillas.
Vj ~ As I have said numerous times before lame-brain, it wouldn't matter what creature man evolved from, it would still be a breach to the immutable laws of nature.
AA: So when a man teaches an ape to sign, it isn't the offspring teaching the parent.
Vj ~ Well idiot, if the first humans knew no language or science, it is the offspring who did the invention or teaching.
AA: Tell me, have you ever actually read Darwin?
Vj ~ Why do I need to read Darwin when his students are the best reflections of his ignorance?
AA: Or are you too afraid to digest something that doesn't fit into your theological model of the universe?
Vj ~ Whatever model must be digested scientific or theological must conform with natural laws. So far you and Darwin are the idiots with a model that breaches those laws.
AA: Second, you should check the periodic table of elements VJ. I'm afraid you won't find anything listed as "solid," or "liquid". Your five elements haven't been taken seriously for eons.
Vj ~ That is because there are more idiots that wise men - progression downwards which conforms with natural laws.
AA: Moreover, electricity is not even a state of matter.
Vj ~ So tell me lame-brain, what is the origin of energy?
AA: There are only three states of matter, liquid, solid and gas.
Vj ~ So where did these elements originated from and which one came first?
AA: Again these are not elements. Elements are molecules made up of electrons and protons. Thus, hydrogen is an element. "Solid" is not.
Vj ~ Isn't it electrons and protons that make up electricity? So why is electricity not an element? Isn't it atoms and molecules that eventually make up solid? So why is solid not an element?
AA: Third, Noam Chomsky is one of the most influential thinkers in modern science. his work showed how the human brain is "hard wired" for language in a way no other primate is.
Vj ~ Not more than Christ in raising the dead, but yet you would not accept it. A fool, void of the knowledge of natural laws, cannot be the judge of influential thinking.
AA: The actual difference in languages is only cosmetic and determined by culture.
Vj ~ You and Slumsky have shit for brains. So what kind of culture was there before to help the first humans determined their culture?
AA: So if you raise a Canadian baby in Japan it will grow up and speak Japanese. If you raise a Japanese baby up in Canada it will speak English.
Vj ~ So idiot, by the same reasoning how could the first humans bring about a culture like ours, without a source culture?
AA: Chomsky's theories changed out understanding of the human mind completely.
Vj ~ Sure it did, you are a perfect example of such dense stupidity.
AA: Fourth....thank you for not posting any links. We are all really sick of them. Good man!
Vj ~ I know how depressing it must be for a you but such is the life of a fool, they can't ignore what could hurt even though it is for their own good. You would think without pain they could never be happy.
AA: Fifth...linguists, by the by, did not invent language. They study it.
Vj ~ How is it possible to invent anything without prior study? According to your theory, the illiterate who invented language, would have to be the greatest linguist of all times because out of complete ignorance and without any connection to any prior language figured out the complexities. What geniuses they must have been?
Dialogue 9
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Rebuttal from: IronFlames - September 30, 2000
Iron: What I know is that Humans for millions of years have progressed FORWARD...physically and mentally... is that not evolution of our species........
Vj ~ Shows that you know shit all. For one, universal "progress forward" is a breach to natural laws and thus it is rational to infer that humans were most civilized (wise or righteous) in the very beginning, you (perverted intellect) being the example of what they are now......
Iron: If you believe that than you have not a single ounce of intelligence in your body.... That statement is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...
Vj ~ How could it be otherwise, when you are a complete dunce when it comes to natural laws?
Iron: Explain to me how humans were always civilized when everything in the entire history of the world proves otherwise...FACT, FACT, FACT!
Vj ~ There are eight kinds of evidences through where truth is ascertained by wise men. History alone cannot determined truth, especially of ancient civilizations.
Iron: You are a lost cause embattled in your own mind of confusion.
Vj ~ Perhaps, but I stand alone in refuting all you brain-washed idiots who come and go as you like, and have never denied anyone a response.
Hello smcglasson
Sam: VJ - these "immutable laws of nature," of which you're so fond... do they have any constants or statements in common with modern science?
Vj ~ Most definitely, the law of nature requires all modern scientists to excrete by the backside at all times and never once by the mouth, nose or ears. This law has been constant and immutable for scientists of the past also, unless you have scientific facts that prove otherwise.
Sam: By modern science, I mean the tested, rigorous study of the universe that has proven so effective and accurate in learning truth about our world (medicine, rockets, astronomy, DNA, etc.
Vj ~ As I said numerous times before, a newly-discovered "truth" denied to early civilization cannot be deemed true. Truth and/or science must be compatible to justice for all times and in all ages. The truth of this universe begins with the origin of the material cause.
Sam: The same science that relies on evolution's fact for countless accurate predictions. That has unlocked DNA's existence and significance. Which is found effective by people of all cultures and religions.
Vj ~ And where did evolutionists got their sciences from? "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
Sam: Also, are your "immutable laws of nature" accepted only by members of one religion but not those of others?
Vj ~ Is it not only the members of Christianity accept Christ also?
Sam: Because, if so, that's a sure sign of bullshit science, kind of a telltale red flag of cultish belief-garbage.
Vj ~ The difference is, you are being confronted with a faith in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with natural laws. Why not take the time to investigate it, before refuting?
Sam: VJ - Speaking of "effective," has anyone used knowledge of the "immutable laws of nature" to make any useful, testable discoveries, or to solve scientific problems or cure diseases?
Vj ~ Of course, because of the testicles, we come to know that the seminal fluid can reflect the steady production of the human body. One can only infer that it has been so from the very beginning in keeping with the law that is unchangeable. As for diseases, the science (of the ancients) of prevention is far superior to science of cure. Of course, that is if you agree that "prevention is always better than cure."
Sam: Or are they only useful in constructing a sort of fantasy philosophy in which the rest of the world is considered inferior, and so have no bearing on the objective universe?
Vj ~ To propagate a philosophy that reminds man of past superior civilizations is to remove the inferiority complex that is plaguing present civilization because of idiots like you. It is very simple, either follow me for prevention or you, for a cure.
Hello Aarrow1
AA: VJ: let me see if I understand you.
Vj ~ It is obvious you don't when you are still an evolutionist.
AA: IN the deep past man was more advanced than he is now and man is regressing as time goes on?
Vj ~ Why bother to look into the deep past when all things created, your car, house, watch, clothes and children are all in the state of progression downwards.
AA: And your proof of this is what exactly?
Vj ~ All things finite (created) must die, it is a law unchangeable. It is obvious that none of these things become newer or anyone younger as the years go by, so why would the advancement of man be the opposite?
AA: (and please, provide us with more of an explanation and a vague remark about natural laws. Explain this in detail so we can understand it)
Vj ~ If you are so much concern of the details (natural laws) and it functions why did you object to the links I have constantly provided for that purpose?
AA: And what is your reply to my last post containing a challenge for you to read Darwin?
Vj ~ Show me the student and I tell you about the teacher. You and your fellow evolutionists are the reflection of Darwin's ignorance, what more do I need to read?
Dialogue 10
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Rebuttal from: masked_1 - October 1, 2000
masked: Oh my VJ. i just read that board you put up and oh its so almost true except for the possibility thing.
Vj ~ I hope you are referring to what I said of evolutionists, a bunch of idiots propagating a theory that breaches natural laws.
masked: and the deny anything we didn't tell you was true already.
Vj ~ Whatever is true, must be for all in all ages and not only for those in the future.
masked: Half of its common sense and the other half is bullshit.
Vj ~ That would depend on whose half you are referring to. But both are needed to ascertain truth since no one can know how sweet sugar is without the taste of salt.
masked: But even within the bullshit i don't see how you can deny evolution.
Vj ~ It is very simple, all of you idiots, except your ancestors, were taught by someone . How could that be possible?
masked: The one example i find most retarded is the birth of a child from infertile parent. Hello! there is a reason we call them test tube babies and surrogate mothers.
Vj ~ It wouldn't matter how conception begins but it could never occur without the reproductive element and the same goes for the first humans, a law unchangeable.
masked: God did some one drag a computer into the cave you live in? The computer which by the way is based on the same scientific methods that explain evolution.
Vj ~ If computer is not the means where man acquire wisdom, you are indeed far from its true purpose and the science that created it.
masked: Now unless you don't believe your computer actually does anything and your imagining this all you really have nothing to say.
Vj ~ As a man's materialistic attachment grows so does the invention for want. It is called greed, the norm of your 'modern' world. Unless it is put into its right perspective or true purpose to elevate the human soul, it becomes an impediment to elevation of the human soul.P.S.
masked: your alone because your wrong.
Vj ~ Since the first human was alone, perhaps he was wrong also.
Hello AArrow1
AA: Hey look everyone, through the immutable laws of nature, VJ has regressed and developed a yellow stripe down his back and chicken feathers!!
Vj ~ Perhaps you can add on a tail while you are it since evolution is not governed by natural laws humans could return to monkeys or chickens or whatever they came from.
AA: Vj, if you were really opened minded you would have at least accepted my challenge. You wimp.
Vj ~ It was no challenge at all when you are propagating Darwin's stupidity. Evolution breaches the immutable laws of nature as I have steadily explained and no theory of Darwin can change that. And where is your open-mindedness when it comes to my challenge.
Hello Whatthef Wha: I've heard ignorance is bliss.
Vj ~ True, but only for the wise who can draw wisdom from it. Since no one desires pain you should strive for it too.
Wha: VJ must be one happy little clam.
Vj ~ What else would you expect of a blissful state?
Wha: You know VJ, I've read many of your posts and never once have your supplied a valid argument for any of your "beliefs" or ideas.
Vj ~ Why don't you become a Christian then with all the 'valid' proofs presented by Benny Hinn in healing so many before the eyes? My belief is not for any idiot but requires a lot of time to ingrain the proper reasoning habits guided by the correct knowledge to arrive at your own valid ideas of what is truth and what is false.
Wha: Do you have anything of any value to add to your own board or are you just here to offer inane rhetoric?
Vj ~ There is value but if you are asking me to make a fool see it, it is impossible. Actually, there is absolutely no cure for a fool.
Hello masked_1
Masked: However you happened to see something useful in the wonderful land of the Vedic i will never understand.
Vj ~It is rather a more rational usefulness than in the land of illiterate half-man and half-ape being inventors of the science you now come to know.Masked: And I thought over zealous Christians were bad.
Vj ~ What makes you better when both Christianity and evolution are a breach to the same laws?
Masked: To go so far as to tell its followers to deny the evidence of their eyes if they had never seen it before (which to the rest of us would be, not understanding what it was).
Vj ~ Whatever your sciences have discovered now, is subjected to change in the future, it has been so for centuries now. So what you see (glitter) may not really be truth (gold).
Masked: As for the rest VJ you're so busy trying to make remarks that only you seem to find intelligent, that you don't comprehend or understand what anyone is saying to you.
Vj ~ And when you idiots have no knowledge of natural laws, how would it be possible to comprehend what I am saying?
Masked: The last comment i made you twisted into some of your usual ridiculousness.
Vj ~ Couldn't be more ridiculous than an absolute and completely illiterate ape-man inventing something as complex as language.
Masked: What you said had nothing to do with what i said.
Vj ~ Shows you cannot cure stupidity with stupidity.
Masked: I said that the scientific method (you never did explain how it was unnatural especially when you follow a totally ambiguous "method") that explains evolution is the same method on which your computer relies on for existing.
Vj ~ Early civilization (Aryans) existed without computers (contentment), so it was not a necessity. Now that it is here, man should use it to find out how to once more exist without it or make it useful in seeking the truth of the origin of life and matter.
Masked: in fact if you actually examine some of those shady methods of yours they are the infant steps toward the scientific method.
Vj ~ What is there to examine, when prevention (superior sciences) is better than cure (inferior)? When my "infant steps" propagate the knowledge of the functions of natural laws whereby man can ascertain what is truth, what good is yours as an adult misleading millions.
Masked: I'm sure you'll not comment or explain but hey its worth a shot
Vj ~ Surprise!
Dialogue 11
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Rebuttal from: Hello harryll - October 3, 2000
Harry: VJ has yet to show us ONE SINGLE SUCCESSFUL Vedic who has demonstrated the "superiority" that he claims comes with knowledge of his religion...
Vj ~ I know how stubborn a jackass is, but this link is for one with intelligence who may happen to pass through.
Harry: If all Vedic's are like VJ, it is safe to say that no Vedic will ever make any medical or scientific breakthrough of any kind even though they have had thousands of years to do so...
Vj ~ Why do they need make any medical breakthrough, when they practiced prevention which is better than cure. I haven't seen a doctor in perhaps 15 years for any medical reason whatever. Do you really know how much of a burden people are to social programs? The practice of my science is not only a great contribution to a our nation's welfare, but to the individual who him/herself practices it. Happiness does not lie in which creature evolved into a human or what species exists on Mars but in the knowledge of the Primary, Secondary Efficient and material cause of the universe.
Harry: "Inane rhetoric" is the a very accurate description of VJ's comments and his defense of his (il)logic thought process...
Vj ~ Even in such a manner, it confounds an idiot, otherwise you would have had no problem in refuting it. Harry: VJ cannot justify any single part of his nonsense so he resorts to claiming that his views represent the wisdom and views of a Divinity, in an attempt to give "authority" to anything that he says....
Vj ~ And by what justification or authority do you have that an evolutionist has procured his intellectual achievement without a teacher? Harry: "Science" doesn't HIDE behind such a refuge...
Vj ~ How can your 'science' hide behind any refuge when you are shameless? The mere fact, that you do not know the origin of life and matter through science is an evil shame to simple common sense. Harry: Science doesn't need to do so, and by it's own rules, will NEVER do so....
Vj ~ Any "science" that deprives early human civilization of TRUTH and REALITY that is yet to be known in some distant future is lame and unjust and cannot be called true science.
Your last post
Harry: Hello VJ...Let's try a simple logic question concerning your most favorite obsession, that of language....
Vj ~ That would depend on how much of an ability the jackass I am holding this discourse with can comprehend the simple logic of an answer.
Harry: If a Divinity was NECESSARY in the creation of any language, (as you have repeatedly claimed), why are there so many thousands of them in existence.???...
Vj ~ Ignorance! As we progress downwards from one language, Sanskrit the source of all languages and the language of Divine Revelation, to many languages so did we from one race to many races, from one religion to many religions and from wise men, now few, to idiots (many) like yourself.
Harry: Doesn't the shear number of them give you a clue that they were MAN-MADE, not the work of a Divinity.?????
Vj ~ Certainly they are man-made it is the reason why man (the soul) is referred to as the secondary efficient cause. God is the Primary efficient cause who created the universe and sent us instructions and from that everything else is man-made. That is what we are supposed to do - it is called independence or freewill of the soul to destroy and/or create. There is no such thing as personal intervention of the Divine into man's affairs to reveal anything new. It is not His fault that man chose to become or remain ignorant. No savage nation can become civilize without a source nation and likewise no new language can be created without a source language. In short, man must be taught, it was so as far back as we know, it is so now and it will be so in the future. Therefore, to infer that the first humans also had to be taught is what is comprised of very sound logic.
Dialogue 12
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Rebuttal from: Hello AArrow1 - October 3, 2000
AA: VJ, here is the difference between you and me. I was opened minded enough to read your links, while you haven't even read the first page of Origin of Speicies.
Vj ~ How would I know what you have read when there is neither agreement nor disagreement on the Vedic philosophy?
AA: However, I should point you that your links go nowhere. They linked me to a table of contents. But the chapter links don't led to any text. You might want to fix that. In any case, at least I've made an effort to understand where you are coming from.
Vj ~ So far so good for your open-mindedness - what have you read then?
AA: You, on the other hand, refuse to even read, let alone consider, Darwin. You may be sticking to your convictions here VJ, but from what I can see, they are the convictions of coward.
Vj ~ Not true my friend! It is only one who knows the origin of the material cause of the universe can enlighten one to the origin of life.
Hello smcglasson
Vj ~ "...a newly-discovered "truth" denied to early civilization cannot be deemed true."
Sam: VJ - Re. your response to me in post 1758...If that's so, what is the cut-off date for discovery of truth; the line between that of "early" civilization and later, apparently untrue discovery? Is there a sort of grandfather clause, where discoveries like DNA could somehow still be true, even though not from ancient civilizations? Was the cut-off date before or after we discovered the shape of the earth, gravity, etc.?
Vj ~ The truth of "DNA, shape of the earth, gravity" was known to the very first humans from the very beginning, if you now come to know of it (rediscovered) in last century, it is your fault and not that this truth did not exist. Vj ~ \"Truth must be compatible to justice at all times and for all in all ages."
Sam: But what does an "immutable" truth like "genetic code in offspring is not an exact, perfect copy of that of the parents' combined genes" have to do with justice? Truth is only what is, not what is just or right. Why confuse the two?
Vj ~ Where is the confusion when the truth is always required to dispense justice? Isn't it the reason why we seek the truth by evidences before handing down a decision (or past sentence)? Similarly, it is injustice to deprive any human being of any truth that is now 'discovered'. Sam: Do you mean that those laws are only true if you are in one particular religion, and don't work if you are not?
Vj ~ The immutable laws of nature is one way of determining which religion or theory is true.
Sam: Which sort of truth are your immutable laws?
Vj ~ A sort where man steadily excreted from the backside and never once in the past, present or future, by the mouth, ears or nose. Sam: Was the cut-off date before or after we discovered the shape of the earth, gravity, etc.?
Vj ~ Ignorance is the norm of the this (last) age and also conforms with law of all things finite must decay. The "cut-off date" is whenever you rediscovered the truth that early man already knew.
Dialogue 13
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Rebuttal from: Hello harryll -October 5, 2000
Harry: Hello VJ...In spite of all of the verbage in your last comments,
Vj ~ It was mostly grass for you to eat jackass. Harry: you STILL CANNOT POINT OUT ONE SINGLE EXCEPTIONAL Vedic, can you??...
Vj ~ That would depend on how anxious the stubborn jackass harryll would want to know. The greatest of all men would be the one that has not only worked to attain emancipation of his soul but to impartially show us the way.Harry: We all know why, don't we.????
Vj ~ Except for a stubborn jackassHello smcglasson
Sam: I am most interested to find out that The truth of 'DNA, shape of the earth, gravity' was known to the very first humans from the very beginning." Is this something you believe just because you want to, or has there been some evidence for early man knowing about DNA?
Vj ~It is not because wise men of yore had knowledge of all sciences that they had the need to use them all. We, on the other hand, are reduced to curiosity and have become very inquisitive so we explore with whatever knowledge is available to us. But the science (truth) has always been with us from the very beginning.
Sam: Double helixes on cave walls or something? Without language, how did they map the genome and name different genes?
Vj ~ Who said they had no language?
Sam: It sounds like the myth of Atlantis, where there was this great ideal society that knew the secrets of the universe, but then it was all destroyed and humanity became stupid again. It's like the ultimate in nostalgia... the vision of a perfect, wise, all-knowing past, where we knew the "truth."
Vj ~ By Vedic standards you, like the majority, have not only become stupid but will remain stupid until the end, compulsion being so.
Sam: Anyway, what's the reason that you buy into that? Science and History aren't the reason, so what is it? An inner conviction? A spiritual vision? Little voices?
Vj ~ Good reasoning guided by the correct knowledge . You have to try it if only to prove me wrong.
Dialogue 14
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Rebuttal from: Hello harryll - October 5, 2000
Harry: Hello VJ...Isn't it enlightening that out of all of the millions of Vedic, you still cannot name one who is exemplary, someone who has demonstrated the "superiority" that you say comes with studying your religious scriptures...
Vj ~ How would it be possible jackass for you to know or recognize their "superiority" when you know nothing of the Vedic philosophy? Prove to me you are not a jackass and I will prove to you one of exemplary superiority in Vedic scriptures.
Harry: You instead name one who lived centuries ago...
Vj ~ Very true, but it seems you have some difficulty relating to his ignorance/wisdom. Well, in simple language, now that you know who is, is he stupid or wise? If we cannot reach some finality with this character, then it will be useless to discuss any other.
Harry: You instead talk only about the spiritual world, souls and the like...
Vj ~ And which you must know of to ascertain your "TRUTH and REALITY". What is reality or truth without knowledge of the soul?
Harry: You always hide back into that whenever we start discussing REALITY and the REAL WORLD...You just hide your head in mysticism rather than face reality...You are one sad case....
Vj ~ The very foundation of "truth and reality" lies in the origin of matter and life. You and your idiotic scientists don't know either. As I said before, if you don't know where it all came from, you will never know your final destination.
Hello Rosamond
Rosa: SMC: I broke my rule and for the first time in almost a year actually read VJ's reply to your post.
Vj ~ Shouldn't be difficult, evolution of man from lower creature broke all the rules of natural laws.Rosa: I was interested in seeing what kind of tortured little tap dance he would perform to evade the obvious errors in his thinking that you led him to through your Socratic method.
Vj ~ Whatever method it was, it is false if it did not conform with the immutable laws of nature which you and SMC have no knowledge of. Rosa: And surprise, surprise, VJ claims that all this knowledge was "known" -- but "just not used" by these ancient wise men.
Vj ~ In a condition (age) of total bliss and contentment who would need a set of golf clubs - relief for banality?Rosa: It seems, though, that these wise men did not see any value in exploiting this knowledge for the benefit of mankind and the technological advances that have extended life and improved its quality are evidently the result of the now reduced and deteriorated human condition, i.e. mere "curiosity".
Vj ~ If human conditions were deteriorated it was not because wise men of the past didn't do their job, but because of idiots like you who have rejected their wisdom. By your own words you rejected this wisdom for one year, well consider the present condition of ignorance when so many and for thousands of years, have rejected it. However, whether you have the good sense to accept it or not, the science you now claimed as yours, the source is the works of those wise men of the past."We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein As I said before - fire (science) is both constructive and destructive, it all depends on how we apply the knowledge. Perhaps, it is the wrong use that have led man to false gods, atheism, superstition and barbarism. Even though great material scientific achievements have been made, the origin of matter , life and the true purpose of the soul still evade the masses. The goal of your science to find a truth that would benefit only those in the future is entirely a grave injustice, a travesty to simple common sense. Rosa: I think VJ ought to emulate the wise of the past and rid himself of every technological gimmick and device arising from this false wisdom...beginning with his computer.
Vj ~ Wisdom (Truth) is the end goal in all fields of our explorations (scientifically or theologically) and come to think of it if we were all wise, as the sages of yore, we would have no need for computers, would we?
Dialogue 15
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Rebuttal from: Hello harryll - October 8, 2000
Harry: Fortunately, few people today are as foolish as VJ....
Vj ~ If fools are in the minority, it is progression upwards, another breach to the immutable laws of nature.
Hello smcglasson
Vj ~ "It is not because wise men of yore had knowledge of all sciences that they had the need to use them all."
Sam: Wait a minute... do you mean that these wise men of yore, who in fact had "knowledge of all sciences," chose not to use that knowledge for some reason?
Vj ~ Inventing the computer or a rocket is elementary to the highest of all science known to man, the most abstruse science of God. Sam: What about when their family members were suffering and dying from disease -
Vj ~ There were no disease and suffering in the beginning because superior science (yoga) of prevention was always encouraged.Sam: you mean that they had the knowledge to prevent or defeat that disease, but refused to use it, leaving no trace of that knowledge?
Vj ~ They did past on both the knowledge of prevention (yoga)and cure (medical science) but because of bigotry (ignorance) folks like you, through ignorance, chose the latter
Sam: Was concealing that knowledge from history more important than the lives of their dearest loved ones, and why? Doesn't make sense to me.
Vj ~ They did past on the knowledge to all mankind, it is the reason you have science working for you today. But if you are ignorant and there are diseases because of it, it is not their fault. The maker of the gun nor the gun is not responsible for the crime, but the one who committed the crime with it.Sam: History shows none of this superior knowledge where it would most likely be used, as with disease or self-preservation in battle, in fact, we have a solid historical record of gross ignorance in medicine and brutish crudity in survival-critical technology.
Vj ~ History alone is not evidence enough to convict a criminal, much less ascertaining the way of life of very early man. Sam: Again, what is the archeological evidence that these "wise men of yore" ever existed and had this knowledge?
Vj ~ If you are waiting for archeology to give you all the answers then you also, like your idiot evolutionist predecessors, will be dead and gone without them (answers).
Sam: And I'm sure you realize that religious myths and stories are not evidence.
Vj ~ If that is what you have come to know of my faith, then where is the courage to point out its fallacy.
Sam: I mean something real, recognized by historians or archeologists outside of the Vedic religion.
Vj ~ There is no real (true) knowledge outside of the Vedic religion.
Sam: All of this is merely to find out if you can make a meaningful distinction between your beliefs and religious "blind faith," fictional fantasy.
Vj ~ How would it be possible for you to know the difference when you know nothing of the Vedic religion?
Sam: I don't see a difference yet.
Vj ~ You are not alone in this world of idiots.
Dialogue 16
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Rebuttal from:Hello smcglasson - October 8, 2000
Sam: VJ - You said that "There is no real (true) knowledge outside of the Vedic religion."Really? One religion is responsible for all "true" knowledge? What about scientific knowledge - is it just not true?
Vj ~ Believe it or not my friend, true knowledge (truth) has only one source. It is obvious when truth is truth because of complete consistency, why would it need many sources. That one source is not only the knowledge of ethics and morals but also all sciences.
Sam: Or is it that when discoveries are made by scientists, the knowledge is always given to them by Vedics?
Vj ~ Whatever we know whether be scientists, lawyers, doctors, etc. the source is one. As far back as history can prove, no savage nation became civilized without a source nation. Even if you don't know what occurred before the Egyptian civilization, from there the knowledge spread to Greece, to the Romans and then to the British.
Sam: I'm trying to understand what you're saying. If, as you say, I know nothing of the Vedic religion, how can that be, when you have been telling me about it?
Vj ~ If it is enough, why so much doubt then? I am only showing you the way, the rest will be up to your own effort to investigate it.
Sam: Have you been lying to me about your own religion?
Vj ~ You are indeed a genius of a fool - you can't see the truth so far, but you can see the lies. If there are lies, it is coming from your failure to investigate all the treatise before accepting or refuting.
Sam: Or maybe you think that if I don't believe it that means I don't know about it... but I know about Jehovah's Witnesses, and I don't believe that.
Vj ~ How could you disbelieve mine then, when you don't know it? Be fair to yourself and make it a duty to know the others as well. It can do no less than make your case more genuine.
Sam: But these "wise men of yore" interest me... what is the reason that you believe they existed and had such wisdom?
Vj ~ By the evidence of their testimonies which are in harmony with each other and that all things finite (created) must decay from purity and perfection - progression downwards, a law unchangeable.
Sam: What has convinced you that it was as you've said, considering your disdain for archeology and history?
Vj ~ I have no disdain for archeology and history but they alone cannot determine truth, without the evidences of inference and testimony . etc. Sam: If you just accept that they existed without question, as part of religious dogma, with no compelling evidence for it, then you should be brave enough to admit that.
Vj ~ Who would want to be brave before fools - a bigger fool perhaps? The courage lies with those who are willing to investigate all available theory (scientific and religious), or after shown the way, to ascertain truth.
Dialogue 17
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Rebuttal from:Hello harryll - October 9, 2000
Harry: Hello VJ...In the REAL world of suffering and pain caused by disasters and disease, there is obviously NO DISTINCTION between the "innocent" or the "guilty"...
Vj ~ Really! Then how do you know who is innocent or who is guilty? And why would it matter if there is no purpose - rewards or punishment?
Harry: If this were all truely Divine "punishment", HE would be selective about who gets punished...Common sense shows that there is no sign of any selectivity
Vj ~ You are not only a dumb jackass but blind also. If among the filthy rich, handsome/beautiful, healthy and brilliant you don't know anyone that is dirt poor, ugly, diseased and illiterate, it is not the Divine's fault, is it?
Harry: so you are as foolish as ever in your conclusions and again, there is no sign of reality in anything that you say....
Vj ~ But since there are inequities among us, which your science can't explain, then you are the fool.
Harry: Certainly, by now, AT LEAST ONE OF THEM has found something legitimate or successful so that you should be able to point to him as some kind of proof, but you can't even do that, CAN YOU??????..
Vj ~ What's wrong with the ONE I have given you so far jackass?
Harry: you don"t even have one single living example to point to...
Vj ~ This may come as a surprise to you, but read my profile and tell me at what "point" the direction is false. In practical terms I may not be able to build a satellite but I know the medium (matter) through which its signals are received because there is no space between two atoms. Knowing the origin of material cause of the universe helps me to better understand the origin of life. I therefore, not only know where I came from but also my destination. It won't make you feel better, but I also know your destination if you continue to be the dumb jackass you are.
Hello smcglasson
Sam: VJ - I read some of the material at your site, but it seems very weak.
Vj ~ Truth will always be weak for a fool simply because a fool doesn't know any better. Sam: You say the way to knowledge involves listening to a "learned man," and removing doubt, and so on... but that is not the way to find truth, that is the way to immerse oneself in religious dogma.
Vj ~ Perhaps, but how would you know if you haven't tried it? I have completed the most difficult part of your search in providing you with a learned man, all you have to do now is remove your doubts. Sam: I see that first-hand, physical investigation is not emphasized, it's just one of eight ways, including stuff like analogies and testimony.
Vj ~ That is because "all that glitter, is not gold." The invisible (the Creator) cannot only be known by "physical investigation" alone, but by subjective evidences. Sam: Here's an interesting quote: "the most beneficial scientific achievements of the West are alluded to the Sanskrit language."
Vj ~ It is the source of all languages, and is therefore, the only complete language.
Sam: Alluded to? Like what, where? No examples? This is just unsupported hogwash and vague nonsense.
Vj ~ Not for the Germans who made full use of Panini's Sanskrit grammar to usher us into space age. When Einstein said it was the Indians who gave the West science, do you really think it came from any other language but Sanskrit? Mellow on that one for while, may be your flickering brains can steady themselves to help you reason a bit.
Dialogue 18
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Rebuttal from:Hello smcglasson - October 10, 2000
Sam: VJ - There was a misunderstanding in this exchange:
Vj ~ You need anymore proof then that you are an idiot.Sam:Here's an interesting quote: "the most beneficial scientific achievements of the West are alluded to the Sanskrit language.
Vj ~It is the source of all languages, and is therefore, the only complete language.I'm not arguing that it's not the source of all languages, or complete. I'm asking where Sanskrit language "alludes to" beneficial scientific achievements of the West like, for instance, penicillin, the internal combustion engine, the telephone, or the personal computer - all are beneficial scientific achievements of the West. What ancient Sanskrit documents "allude to" these things?
Vj ~ Why, aren't the words of your own kind (scientist):- "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein - not good enough for you?
RHello tjaime1
Jaime: How do you know that the many great discoveries that came from India came from the invading Sanskrit speakers and not the natives of Mohenjodaro and Harappa?
Vj ~ What "invading Sanskrit speakers"? There were no such invasions. The Aryans were the first people on earth who moved from Tibet to India and China, and to the rest of the world.
Jaime: And while the mathematical systems used in the west are from India, people in the new world also had complex systems, that maybe we never had the chance to learn, and probably someone else would have thought of it eventually, don't you think?
Vj ~ No savage nation can become civilized without a source nation. Do you really think the natives of the Americas could have made such 'progress' had the Europeans not showed up?
Jaime: People were happy before Calculas. I know I'd be pretty happy without it.
Vj ~ I couldn't have said it any better, so were the ancients without your 'technological advancement' the cause of the ozone layer's destruction.
Hello IronFlames
Iron: Vj…It is a sin that you do not seem to grasp the whole argument between you and us.
Vj ~ When "sin" is associated with God, how can you doubt His existence, unless you are an idiot? From where I am standing it is a bigger sin in not grasping my argument.
Iron: Your stubbornness seems to prevail time after time. Not once you have agreed with anything anyone has said.
Vj ~ Perhaps, such persistence prevents me from becoming a fool like you and the others. And how can there be any doubt when the company of the wise are few? It shows the perverted state of the intellect and the effort that is needed to cure it.Iron: Where we bring truth and facts, you bring malice and inflexibility.
Vj ~ The source of your truth and facts is from some monkey in the past. It is wiser to stick with a supernatural intelligent Being who sent us instructions, since man had to be taught. Your farcical explanations are based on things no one except you seems to know.
Vj ~ Well then, why let your stupidity be an impediment to thorough and impartial investigation of what I know? Iron: That makes you pretty smart, huh?
Vj ~ If that is what you meant by wise, why not? Iron: I think it makes you look foolish and uncompromising. You spout about the Sanskrit language being the first and only true language but where is your proof.
Vj ~ You will have to seek it by your own effort, as the I have done, if you so desire. In short, no fool is deserving of this truth after he/she has been shown the way.Iron: Sanskrit language is the oldest literary language of INDIA and the basis of many modern Indian languages, including Hindi and Urdu. Its earliest dialect form, Vedic, was spoken by the Aryans. Sanskrit died out as a living language by about 100 B.C. The oldest Vedic texts are those of the Rig Veda, dating from about the 1300's B.C even though Sanskrit literature is about 5,000 years old
Vj ~ And what other literature do you know that is older than 5,000 years? Iron: This says that it is the basis of many modern INDIAN languages. Not all languages, certainly not Latin. And 5,000 years is too young to be the mother of all languages if there even is one.
Vj ~ What other civilization do you know that existed before the Aryans of Harrapa besides your band of monkey-men? Iron: What about Predynastic Egypt did we forget about them or the Sumerians and Babylonians, the Mesopotamians and the Chinese Yangshao Culture also predate Sanskrit.
Vj ~ How could these cultures predate Sanskrit of 5,000 years when they are only 4, 000 years and later? Iron: You will probably say they did not speak since it does not fit into your “equation.” You never have any facts to back up your answers you are just like a true follower BLIND!
Vj ~ Well I have a source for language (Sanskrit) while you have none or guessing which one it might be, so who then is likely the blind idiot here?
Dialogue 19
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Rebuttal from: Hello Rosamond - October 11, 2000
Rosa: Ironflames, VJ tried to tell me that Sanskrit was 6 Million year old, and insisted the BBC announced this. Astonishingly, VJ got the article all wrong. I'm sure that never happened before.
Vj ~ Sanskrit, the language of revelation (Vedas) is eternal. This revelation takes place in beginning of every new cycle of creation, the last being approximately under 4,000,000 million years ago and this information was always on my site since its inception. Now you can tell everyone what I have said.
Hello d_toad
D: When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted.
Vj ~ My guess is that you have nothing to worry about since you are fast becoming a frog.
Hello harryll
Harry: Hello VJ.....You have failed time & time again in giving us ANY real living examples of the fruit of the centuries old scripture (read and studied by many millions) that you keep promoting...
Vj ~ Many millions yes, except, you jackass. So how would you know what these "centuries old scripture" contains when you are yet to examine them?
Harry: From all of these MILLIONS of devout followers, you can't even find ONE...
Vj ~ The problem is not finding one, but how do I get the blind jackass harryll see one. Harry: The ancients may not have threatened the "ozone layer", but then neither do the monkeys....
Vj ~ The "ancients is the source of what we know, but monkeys are still monkeys. There is a vast difference. Harry: That is another good example that your criteria for acceptance is always very limited and very narrow, most often, just smoke...
Vj ~ Why would "smoke" matter to a blind jackass? Harry: The only REAL example that we have of Vedic "wisdom" is you yourself, and that one is pitiful...
Vj ~ How could it even be an example when you have failed to investigate my faith? Harry: You are doing us a service by being on these boards because you yourself demonstrate the best example of the lunacy that you are promoting as REALITY and TRUTH...
Vj ~ If "lunacy" is knowing the source of matter and life, then I can only imagine where you stand without one.
Hello AArrow1
AA: "This discovery implies that life could be everywhere in the universe," said Louis Allamandola, who headed the research team. "This process happens all the time in the dense molecular clouds of space."
Vj ~ What your scientists now know, the Rishis of yore knew for millions of years! There is nothing that is created that is useless, it may not be humans like ourselves but some form of life as low as bacterial.
Dialogue 20
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Rebuttal from: Hello tjaime1 - October 12, 2000
Jaime; Wow, VJ, forgive me for ever arguing.
Vj ~ Who said you are, unless you find constructive criticism painful to the ears?
Jaime; So the Aryans came from Tibet huh?
Vj ~ All human civilization originated from Trivishtap, now known as Tibet.Jaime; That would explain why genetic analysis, population clines and linguistic studies, as well as archeological and cultural anthropological evidence shows that the Sanskrit speakers came from the Eurasian steppes, along with the ancestors of Europeans.
Vj ~ Sanskrit began in Asia (India/Tibet) and it is these very Asians who moved with it to other parts of the world. Jaime; And also why the Dravidic languages have no related language outside of India.
Vj ~ Why should it, when there are many other languages in India which are not. But fact remains that they all have their origin from Sanskrit.
Jaime; So who exactly built MohenjoDaro and Harappa? How would you explain the drastic linguistic and cultural changes that are assumed to have been brought about by the Indo-Aryans?
Vj ~ These cities were only the remnants of the once mighty and glorious Aryan civilization. It is the law of nature that all things finite (creation) must decay from its purest/most civilized state and universal righteousness is no exception.Jaime; And where does it say in the vedic texts that the origin of the Aryans was Tibet?
Vj ~ Why does it have to say it when you can use your head? Isn't the fact that India and China, bordering Tibet, the two most populated countries in the world, enough? Again, it is only an Indian experiences complexion changes due to different climatic conditions. It is quite obvious that from them all races materialized as they moved North (cold) and South (hot). Jaime; And why do assume the CIVILISATIONS of the new world were 'not-civilized'?
Vj ~ Again, it was a civilization on its way down conforming with natural laws. In spite of our technological advances mankind is still in the process of decadence since the highest of all sciences is the knowledge pertaining to the origin and liberation of the soul. Even now all researches point to the origin of man and/or creation, but the decline is still eminent because of the continued prejudicial rejection of the one true religion of the Vedas. Jaime; One more question, If your not really interested in learning about others opinions, why are you on the message boards?
Vj ~ Truth can only be ascertained when the mind alternates (through contemplation) between what is false (knowledge) and what is true (real knowledge). If there is anyone who is really learning here, it is me. Jaime; You refuse to argue intelligently, and I am sure any of us would be glad to hear intelligent, factual arguments for you view point.
Vj ~ Could be, but how would you know that you are not the one guilty of arguing stupidly? Jaime; At least creationists attempt to argue evolution with factual counter arguments, you fanatical clinging to something with no objective basis, something so specific to a single culture is really impressive.
Vj ~ Objective knowledge of the invisible is only possible by subjective evidences where tangible or historical evidences fails. For example, we cannot see or feel oxygen, but by subjective means (our dependency for survival) we know it exists. The same for the Supernatural (Creator). Jaime; Okay, one more, If no people can become civilized without a source nation, how did the source nation become civilized?
Vj ~ By instructions from an superior intelligent being, we call it Brahma (God), keeping in mind that man must always be taught. Jaime; Your not going to tell me that you and the other indo-Aryans are just plain smarter than the rest of us.
Vj ~ The ultimate goal of human survival is to know where we came from and where we want to go. Since no one desires pain, the aspiration of the soul is perpetual happiness, the emancipation of the soul through yoga , the highest of all sciences. Yes, we are not only smarter, but wise, which leaves you plain stupid. Jaime; Your enough evidence to prove that's not true.
Vj ~ If you don't know what can be achieved by the practices of yoga, what other proof do you need?
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"Just as color cannot be perceived by ears, nor sound by eyes; in like manner, the Eternal Supreme Spirit is not perceptible to the senses. He can only be seen by a pure soul through the purity of heart, acquisition of knowledge and the practice of yoga. Just as one cannot reap the advantages of knowledge without acquiring it, likewise the Supreme Spirit cannot be seen without the practice of yoga and gaining the highest knowledge." The Light of Truth Translation
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