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Then in January of 2000 we were informed that our list was being discontinued and we were all being transferred to the "THOUGHTS-network" discussion list. We knew that our list moderator (Tracy) didn't want to maintain the list anymore because she had just had a baby. And that was very sensible of her. But we were not asked what we wanted to do. We were told what would happen. I do not even question her right to handle things the way she did. But it does explain why things turned out the way they did.
The first thing that happened was, we realized that the "THOUGHTS-network" list was a pre-existing list intended for a national not a state group. Many of us had joined our list because we wanted to network with others in New York State. The thoughts list was clearly not going to fulfill that need. At that point one member of our list went over to onelist.com and registered "NYS_Witches" so we could continue to have a New York State list.
My first thought when I saw that was "Poor Tracy, trying to get a group of pagans to do what you tell them to is like herding cats."
Some of us went over to the thoughts list to check it out . And to at least try to do what our list moderator wanted us to.
In addition to being national (not state) the thoughts list was "kid safe" (not adult conversational). That turned out to be the big problem. Or rather trying to clarify that issue reveled a bigger problem.
Kris, another member in good standing of the old list asked the THOUGHTS moderators to clarify the "kids safe" policy. They replied that it was common sense. This is problematic. One persons "common sense" is another persons "totally off the wall". So she asked again and they said "We told you already!" and quoted there previous posts. Kris quoted some posts about circumcision and polyamoury that had originally appeared on the old list and asked if they would be acceptable on the new list. She was given a warning that if she did that again she would be put on fully monitored status. She persisted in trying to engage them in rational discussion and was put on fully monitored status.
Meanwhile "The New York State Witches Home Page" was also transferred over to the possession of the "THOUGHTS-network". One of the THOUGHTS moderators had said that anyone could submit their pagan web site for inclusion on the THOUGHTS page. I submitted my site and it was put on their page.
Suddenly I received a post from Midnight Gray Wolfpup, one of the regional representatives from the old New York State Witches page. He said he was resigning as a representative and no longer wanted to be associated with "The New York State Witches Homepage" or "THOUGHTS-network". The reason he gave at that time was the position THOUGHTS was taking toward Kris on the thoughts discussion list. Although in a later post he also admitted to feeling that the whole take over had been handled in an autocratic manner counter to the democratic policy statements of both groups. He smelled a rat.
At the time I urged moderation, I saw no need for him to leave, we were still discussing things. I urged hin to reconsider leaving, to stay and work thing out. I also expressed some confusion about the web page policy. I hadn't thought the "kid safe" policy applied to the web page. I pointed out that I had submitted my site and it had been added despite the fact that it contains information about BDSM and Poly-amoury.
It was at this point that a woman named Aras, who is one of the people in charge at thoughts, posted back accusing me of "deliberatly" flouting the THOUGHTS web page policy to "get attention" and of being part of some "political" "power play" to "take over the New York Witches Homepage".
I have a strict policy of not encouraging insane people by trying to reason with them.
I choose to leave the Thoughts network immediately.
Kris made a gif comparing Thoughts to the "Borg" from Star Trek "You must be assimilated" "Resistance is futile". We did feel like that. We weren't consulted about the decision to merge the lists and any questions we asked were treated as rebellions.
We do understand that they see things differently, because they told us so. They think we are a bunch of trouble makers who barged onto their list and tried to "force them to change their policies". They might be justified in feeling that way if we had chosen to join their list under other circumstances. But we didn't just walk in we were "taken over" by them and they should have been prepared to orient us. We didn't try to "force them to change their policies" we were just trying to find out what those policies were.
We tried to work with them. We asked if they would be willing to host a separate list for adults living in New York State. They said that would "promote disunity" and could not be allowed.
We were reasonable and tried to work with them. They were unreasonable and refused to work with us.
I am posting this just to let people know that despite their statements on their web site, this is how the people at THOUGHTS behaved toward us. The "THOUGHTS-network" monitors have demonstrated that they will not tolerate any questions from members or any controversial discussion of issues, at all.
On the new web site The New York State Witches Homepage nywitch says "we honor your advice and comments." He honored our comments with accusations and abuse.
The page also promotes the "THOUGHTS-network" list saying "State networking has never been easier or more fun!" with no mention of the restrictions on speech or the fact that it is national not a state list.
ŠJan. 24, 2000 Eva M. Snyder
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