Police TimeLine Testimony One

Last Update: 1:00 AM, 1 June 1996

Police TimeLine Testimony

From: Initial 911 Call to 10:00 AM, 13 June 1994

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Upon arrival, Officer Riske
CLARK: AND WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE?
RISKE: WE OBSERVED A COUPLE WITH A DOG. A COUPLE NORTH OF THE LOCATION, ONE HOUSE NORTH OF THE LOCATION FLAGGED US DOWN AS WE ARRIVED AT 874. THEY WERE STANDING, I BELIEVE IT WAS, AT 870.
CLARK: AND WHERE DID THEY DIRECT YOU TO?
RISKE: TO 875.
CLARK: DID YOU EXAMINE THE DOG TO NOTE HIS APPEARANCE?
RISKE: I HAD OBSERVED THE DOG TO HAVE BLOOD ON ALL FOUR LEGS.

Riske & Partner establish perimeters
CLARK: DID YOU TAKE ANY STEPS OR PRECAUTIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS PRESERVED AS YOU FOUND IT, SIR?
RISKE: WE TAPED OFF THE CRIME SCENE SO NOBODY CAN ENTER IT. WE USED CRIME SCENE TAPE. WE ACTUALLY SECURED THE WHOLE BLOCK, THE INNER BLOCK OF BUNDY, AND THEN WE CRIME SCENE TAPED FROM 873 TO 877. THE REAR WAS FROM THE SOUTH OF THE ALLEY OF THE 800 BLOCK AND JUST NORTH OF 875 BUNDY.
CLARK: AND AFTER YOU TAPED IT OFF, DID YOU ENSURE THAT NO ONE WAS PERMITTED TO WALK INTO ANY AREA THAT WAS ENCLOSED BY THE TAPE?
DID YOU PRESERVE IT IN THAT MANNER UNTIL THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ARRIVED?
THAT'S STANDARD PROCEDURE?
RISKE: YES, MA'AM.
CLARK: AND NO ONE DID PASS ACROSS THE TAPE AT ANY OF ITS PERIMETERS?
RISKE: WELL, MYSELF AND ONE OTHER OFFICER, WE CROSSED THE TAPE AND WE SEARCHED THE RESIDENCE OF THAT LOCATION.
CLARK: WAS ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU FOUND AT THE SCENE PRESERVED IN THE MANNER THAT YOU FOUND IT?
RISKE: YES, MA'AM.
Return 0025
Cochran: YOUR PURPOSE WAS TO LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER VICTIMS, ANY OTHER PEOPLE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE? WAS THAT WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE AND FORMED THE OPINION, AS YOU STATED, THAT MR. O.J. SIMPSON WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED IN THIS?
Riske: ACTUALLY WHEN I MADE THE INITIAL PHONE CALL.
Cochran: NOTICED IT WHEN YOU MADE THE FIRST PHONE CALL AND YOU SAW SOME CORRESPONDENCE WITH MR. SIMPSON'S NAME ON IT?
Riske: IT WAS A RETURN ADDRESS, YES. {not a letter} JUST AN ENVELOPE.
Q A LETTER WITH A RETURN ADDRESS AND MR. O.J. SIMPSON? IN YOUR MIND YOU THOUGHT THAT THAT MEANT HE WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED WITH THIS?
Riske: WITH THE PICTURES ON THE WALL AND THE FAMILY PICTURES AND THE LETTER. THERE WAS A LITHOGRAPH ON THE NORTH WALL OF THE RESIDENCE. OF O.J. SIMPSON, I BELIEVE. I BELIEVE IT WAS HIM PLAYING FOOTBALL. THERE WERE SOME FAMILY PHOTOS AS YOU ENTER THE FRONT DOOR. THERE IS LIKE A WALL BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DINING ROOM THAT HAD PHOTOS IN IT. THERE IS JUST A BUNCH OF PHOTOS. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.
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MS. CLARK: After you left at 12:30 P.M., you came back again at about 1:00 A.M.?
MS. CLARK: Okay. Is that an approximation, 1:00 to 1:30, something like that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. SIMPSON: I left in my car.
=== Answer implies she had car until 1:00 AM === MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you did not return until what time?
MS. SIMPSON: Approximately around between 12:30 and 1:00.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that A.M.?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had you been to a movie or something like that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
Return 0105
Q AND WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THAT CALL?
A AT 1:05 IN THE MORNING.
Q DID IT WAKE YOU UP?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT WERE YOU TOLD IN THAT CALL?
A I WAS TOLD BY MY SUPERVISOR, THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR, DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS, THAT WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND IT WAS AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THAT I WOULD MEET HIM AT THE STATION AND WE WOULD GET A VEHICLE WITH A HOMICIDE KIT AND GO OUT TO THE SCENE FROM THERE.
Q WERE YOU TOLD ANYTHING ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF EITHER VICTIM?
A YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAID THAT THE FEMALE VICTIM MIGHT BE THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON.
Q AND WHERE DID THE CALLER TELL YOU TO GO?
A 875 SOUTH BUNDY.

{Pre-Lim Read by Bailey Mar 14th} "ANSWER: I WAS NOTIFIED THAT -- WHEN I WAS NOTIFIED AT MY RESIDENCE AT 1:05 I WAS TOLD THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON.
"DID YOU RELAY THAT INFORMATION TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER?
"ANSWER: IT WAS RELAYED, YES."
Return 0130
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know what time approximately you went to bed, went to sleep?
MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around one o'clock. Between 1:00 and 1:30.

Return 0150
Q SO WHERE DID YOU GO? WAIT. LET ME -- WHEN YOU LEFT YOUR HOME, WHERE DID YOU GO?
Fuhrman: TO THE POLICE STATION AT 1663 SOUTH BUTLER, WEST LOS ANGELES STATION.
Q AND DID YOU MEET SOMEONE HERE?
Fuhrman: DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS.
Q AND WHAT TIME DID YOU MEET HIM?
Fuhrman: SHORTLY BEFORE 2:00 O'CLOCK, MAYBE 1:50.

0210 - Fuhrman & Phillips arrive at Bundy.
A YES. HE {Lange} WAS DRIVING, I {Fuhrman} WAS PASSENGER.
Q AND DID YOU DRIVE TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE?
A 0210 HOURS IS WHEN WE SIGNED IN TO THE OFFICER THAT WAS RUNNING THE LOG.
Q OKAY. 2:10 A.M.?
A YES.

Return to Homicide Car Bailey: AND WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THAT?
Fuhrman: IT'S A DUAL PURPOSE, I BELIEVE AN '88 CHEVROLET FOUR-DOOR IMPALA.
Bailey: WELL, I WASN'T INTERESTED IN SO MUCH THE MAKE AND MODEL AS THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE TO WHICH IT'S ALLOCATED.
Fuhrman: IT'S A CAR THAT'S ASSIGNED TO HOMICIDE UNIT. WE HAVE A HOMICIDE KIT IN THE TRUNK.
Bailey: NOW, MAY WE LEARN WHAT A HOMICIDE KIT CONSISTS OF? I ASSUME YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THEM MORE THAN ONCE.
Fuhrman: FROM THE BEGINNING? IN THE BOTTOM OF THE HOMICIDE KIT, YOU HAVE USUALLY COVERALLS, PLIERS, ROPES, GLOVES, SOMETIMES -- HIGH-POWERED FLASHLIGHTS. YOU COULD HAVE LIKE WORK GLOVES THAT YOU WOULD USE TO MAYBE CLIMB DOWN A ROPE IF YOU WERE GOING INTO A RAVINE OR SOME INACCESSIBLE AREA YOU HAVE TO GET DOWN TO A SCENE.
Bailey: DO YOU ALSO HAVE RUBBER GLOVES?
Fuhrman: YES, SIR.
Bailey: ALL RIGHT. CONTINUE.
Fuhrman: YOU WOULD HAVE RULERS, TAPE MEASURES, ANY NECESSARY REPORTS, PLASTIC BAGS, ENVELOPES, WRITING UTENSILS, GREASE PENCILS, RULERS, COMPASS.
Q PLASTIC BAGS IN VARYING SIZES PERHAPS?
Fuhrman: YES.
Bailey: INTENDED FOR THE COLLECTION OF EVIDENCE SHOULD ANY BE FOUND?
Fuhrman: YES.
Q ANYTHING ELSE OF SIGNIFICANCE OF A STANDARD LAPD HOMICIDE KIT?
A THERE'S QUITE A -- THERE'S QUITE A FEW ITEMS, BUT I'M SURE I'VE LEAVING OUT SEVERAL, BUT --
Q BUT THESE ARE ALL TOOLS THAT MIGHT BE USED AT THE SCENE OF A GIVEN HOMICIDE?
A YES.

=== Return The Homicide Car === === Riske shows Fuhrman around === Bailey: CAN YOU {Fuhrman} DESCRIBE FOR US THE ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK AND WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU -- THAT OFFICER RISKE TOOK YOU UP AND SHOWED YOU? GUIDE THE POINTER, IF YOU WILL.
A WELL, WE STOPPED AT THE LOCATION WHERE THE GATE POST IS ALMOST -- YOU COULD SEE THE ENTRYWAY. JUST TO THE LEFT OF THAT, THERE'S A POST. OFFICER RISKE WOULD BE IN THE FRONT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS BEHIND HIM AND MYSELF IN THE BACK.
Q WERE YOU STANDING ON SHRUBBERY OR GRASS OVER THERE?
A. YES. IT WAS SHRUBBERY, PLANTS.
Q DID YOU STEP ON THE WALKWAY?
A NO.
Bailey: WHERE THE BLOOD IS SHOWN HERE?
A NO.
Q DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DO THAT?
A NO.
Q OFFICER RISKE DO THAT?
A NO, NOT THAT I SAW.
=== What did Fuhrman see === Bailey: OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT WHERE THE ARROW IS SHOWN?
A WE COULD SEE A FEMALE VICTIM IN A BLACK DRESS LYING AS IS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTO, HEAD TO ALMOST DUE NORTH, FEET ALMOST DUE SOUTH SOMEWHAT FACE DOWN IN A POOL OF BLOOD. IT APPEARED THAT THAT BLOOD WAS FLOWING DOWN THE WALKWAY PREDOMINATELY IN THE CRACKS OF THE TILED WALKWAY.
Q IS THAT GROUTING RECESSED? IS IT DEEPER OR LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL TILE?
A YES. IT -- I CAN'T RECALL IF IT WAS ACTUAL TILE OR A PRESS THAT THEY PUT INTO THE CONCRETE TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT WAY, BUT THERE WAS RECESSES BETWEEN THE SQUARES.
Bailey: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT OTHER THAN THE FEMALE VICTIM?
A WELL, OFFICER RISKE USED HIS FLASHLIGHT TO POINT OUT SEVERAL ITEMS.
Q AND WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU, SIR?
A HE POINTED OUT THE MALE VICTIM FOR ONE, WHICH WASN'T EASILY SEEN FROM THAT ANGLE.
Q WERE YOU ABLE TO -- PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR US THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE AS OFFICER RISKE POINTED IT OUT TO YOU.
A THE WHITE ENVELOPE.
Q AS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES. THE MALE VICTIM.
Q IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW HIM?
A YES. THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, YES. OFFICER RISKE ALSO USED HIS FLASHLIGHT IN THE -- THE BUSH WITH THE LONG LEAVES AT THE FEET OF THE MALE VICTIM. HE POINTED HIS FLASHLIGHT AND SAID THAT THERE WAS A KNIT CAP AND A GLOVE THERE ALSO.
Q WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THEM?
A I WAS ABLE TO SEE SOMETHING. IT WAS PRETTY HARD TO MAKE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE FROM THAT ANGLE.Q OKAY. SO HE JUST TOLD YOU AT THAT POINT?
A WELL, I -- YES.
Q DID YOU MAKE SOME EFFORT TO SEE THE KNIT CAP AND THE GLOVE THAT HE POINTED OUT TO YOU?
=== They go around via the street === A AT THAT TIME, WE ASKED OFFICER RISKE IF THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY WE COULD COME INTO THIS CRIME SCENE. IT WAS -- WE WOULD HAVE TO STEP ONTO THE SIDEWALK WHERE ALL THE BLOOD WAS TO GET INTO THE CRIME SCENE OR TOUCH THE FENCE WHICH WE WERE STANDING NEXT TO TO GET AROUND THAT. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE. WE PREFERRED TO GO IN ANOTHER WAY IF WE COULD. WE RETRACED OUR STEPS BACKWARD. WE HAD A DISCUSSION. OFFICER RISKE, SAID, WELL, WE CAN GO IN THROUGH THE ALLEY THROUGH THE BACK OF THE RESIDENCE. WE WERE PLEASED WITH THAT. SO WE WALKED BACK DOWN BUNDY SOUTH AND WEST ON DOROTHY AND THEN TO THE NORTH-SOUTH ALLEY, WHICH WAS TAPED OFF, AND WE APPROACHED THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
=== The Paw Prints go south === Bailey: OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANYTHING -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. WHY DID YOU WALK IN THE STREET? WHY NOT ON THE SIDEWALK?
Fuhrman: THE BLOOD EMPTIED ONTO THE SIDEWALK AND THERE WAS PAW PRINTS, CANINE PRINTS LEADING SOUTH ON THE SIDEWALK IN THE BLOOD.
Q I AM SORRY?
Fuhrman: THE PAW PRINTS WERE IN BLOOD.
Q BLOODY PAW PRINTS?
Fuhrman: YES.
Q DID YOU FOLLOW THOSE PAW PRINTS AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE STREET?
Fuhrman: THEY HEADED SOUTHBOUND AND THEN DISSIPATED.
Q OKAY. WHERE DID THEY FADE OUT, IF YOU RECALL?
Fuhrman: IF I REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST ABOUT AT DOROTHY.
=== in house === Bailey: OKAY. AFTER YOU GOT TO THE LIVING ROOM, THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A OFFICER RISKE WAS DIRECTING US AND SEEING THAT -- I CAN'T RECALL IF HE SAID THAT THE DOOR WAS WIDE OPEN, BUT IT WAS AT THIS POINT. HE WALKED US ONTO THE LANDING, AND AS HE WALKED ONTO THE LANDING, HE SHINED HIS FLASHLIGHT ON HEEL PRINTS, FOOTPRINTS, SHOEPRINTS IN BLOOD AND POINTED OUT AT LEAST ONE DROP OF BLOOD TO THE LEFT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DIDN'T STEP IN THAT AREA.
=== Fuhrman in photograph === A I RECOGNIZE THE PHOTO, YES.
Bailey: OKAY. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT VANTAGE POINT THAT'S TAKEN FROM?
A IT APPEARS THAT IT'S TAKEN FROM THE LANDING THAT YOU WOULD WALK OUT ONTO FROM THE FRONT DOOR. LOOKING DOWN ON THE FEMALE VICTIM, YOU WOULD BE LOOKING IN A NORTH -- NORTHEASTERLY DIRECTION.
Bailey: NOW, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU SAW THOSE TWO ITEMS IN PARTICULAR THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DETECT WHAT THEY WERE?
A FROM THAT LANDING, OFFICER RISKE SHINED HIS LIGHT ON THOSE ONCE AGAIN SHOWING SEVERAL OBJECTS THAT HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SEEN.
Bailey: OKAY. AND IT -- WAS HE THE ONE WHO POINTED OUT THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH TO YOU?
A YES.
Q WHAT ELSE DID HE POINT OUT, SIR?
A I BELIEVE HE POINTED OUT A WHITE ENVELOPE THAT WAS JUST SOUTH OF THE MALE VICTIM CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK. HE POINTED OUT A -- HE POINTED OUT A PAGER. I BELIEVE I OBSERVED A MENU BELOW THE FEMALE VICTIM. I'M NOT SURE IF I DETERMINED IT WAS A MENU AT THAT POINT, BUT I SAW SOMETHING. AND HE MADE A POINT TO SHOW US HEEL PRINTS AND SHOEPRINTS THAT APPEARED TO BE IMPRINTED IN BLOOD THAT WERE LEADING WESTBOUND FROM THAT SCENE.
Q DID YOU AT THAT TIME NOTICE ANY SHOEPRINT NEAR THE EVIDENCE OF THE HAT AND THE GLOVE?
A YES. I SAW A SHOEPRINT, BUT IT WAS A GOOD DISTANCE FROM ME AT THAT POINT.
=== Fuhrman's first lie? === BY MS. CLARK: WHILE HE'S PRINTING, SIR, LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE QUESTIONS. YOU SAID YOU CAME OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND STOOD ON THE LANDING WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE AS OFFICER RISKE POINTED IT OUT WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU GET ANY CLOSER TO THE BODIES THAN THAT?
A NO.
Q YOU STAYED UP ON THE LANDING DID YOU?
A YES, I DID.
Q EVER GO DOWN THE STAIRS AND STEP INTO THE CRIME SCENE OR STEP OVER THE BODY OF NICOLE BROWN?
A LATER THAT MORNING AFTER I RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM, YES.
Q NO, BUT I MEAN AT THIS TIME.
A AT THIS TIME, NO.
Q AND SO WHAT IS THE CLOSEST THAT YOU GOT TO THE BODIES OF RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN AT THAT TIME, 2:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING?
A STANDING ABOVE THEM ON THE TOP OF THE LANDING.
{MAR09.HTM}
=== Blood on rear gate === Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE AREA, DID YOU MAKE ANY OBSERVATIONS THERE?
Fuhrman: OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT SOME BLOOD ON THE GATE, SOME SMUDGING ON THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE. I NOTICED SOME BLOOD DROPPING ON THE CENTER OF THE GATE, THE MESH PART OF THE GATE.
{if gate opened with left hand? what blood expected?}Q AND WHAT ELSE WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ON THAT GATE, SIR?
Fuhrman: NOT AT THAT TIME, BUT LATER, I SAW A PARTIAL POSSIBLE FINGERPRINT THAT WAS ON THAT KNOB AREA.

Return 0230
BY MR. BAILEY: {Mar 16th} LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE THERE THAT NIGHT?
Spangler: I BELIEVE I ARRIVED APPROXIMATELY 2:30 IN THE MORNING, SIR.

0230
Q WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO RE-ENTER THE LOCATION, TO RE-ENTER THE CONDOMINIUM, WHERE DID OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO?
Fuhrman: I BELIEVE THEY WALKED BACK TO DOROTHY.
Q OKAY. AT THAT POINT HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE?
Fuhrman: MAYBE FIFTEEN MINUTES AT THE MOST.
Q OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU WEARING AT THAT TIME?
Fuhrman: A BLUE BLAZER, TAN SLACKS, WHITE SHIRT.

Return 0248
MR. ROKAHR: We received a call at 0248 and I probably arrived around 0320.
MR. ROKAHR: I could not find him {log-in officer} where I had parked.
MR. NEUFELD: And where was that that you had parked?
MR. ROKAHR: I parked right on the very corner of I believe it's Bundy and Dorothy and I had to walk in back of the--the actual location to find someone who had the log.

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preliminary hearing
03 ULEMAN: So, essentially, you stopped taking notes because
04 you believed you were off the case; is that correct?
05 Fuhrman: No. I knew I was off the case; It was no longer
06 my case. So I stopped there because the way they conducted
07 the crime scene or their notes -- I would be giving them
08 mine and they would be taking over from that point;
09 They would review my notes up to that point and then they
10 would continue making their own from the beginning -- when
11 they arrived at the scene.

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MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN YOU GOT YOUR CALL AT ABOUT 3:00 O'CLOCK, YOU WERE AT HOME?
Vannatter: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
BY MR. SHAPIRO: HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET FROM WHERE YOU WERE TO THE BUNDY LOCATION?
Vannatter: APPROXIMATELY 40, 45 MINUTES.

Return 0310
MR. NEUFELD: When you spoke with me yesterday, did you tell me that the time that you had arrived at 875 Bundy was approximately 3:10 in the morning?
MR. ROKAHR: Could be 3:10, could be 3:20. I'm not sure.

Return 0325
MR. NEUFELD: If you arrived at 3:20 in the morning and you logged in--I'm sorry. If you logged in at 3:20 in the morning and the walk-through took approximately five minutes, would that mean that the walk-through was over by 3:25?
MR. ROKAHR: I would say so.

MR. NEUFELD: As soon as the walk-through was over, did you encounter a detective?
MR. ROKAHR: No, I did not.
MR. NEUFELD: After you completed the walk-through that took approximately five minutes, what is the next thing that happened?
MR. ROKAHR: I shot the overalls of the streets involved. So what we do is, we shoot up and down the street, the intersection, and I believe I shot pictures--can I refer to some of my notes here?

Return 0355
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And, sir, approximately how long did it take you to shoot those overall or establishment or location shots that you just described?
MR. ROKAHR: I would say approximately 25, 35 minutes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So if you began taking these overall or location shots at approximately 3:25 in the morning and they took approximately 25 minutes to shoot, that would mean that you were finished shooting these location shots at approximately 3:50 or 3:55 in the morning. Would that be a fair estimate?
MR. ROKAHR: Something like that.

***** Return to Prosecution Misconduct ?***** Rokahr deviates from prior statement:
MR. NEUFELD: When you were interviewed by me yesterday on tape at the Los Angeles Police Department Parker center, didn't you say to me that it was approximately five to 10 minutes after you completed the overall shots of the scene that you encountered Detective Mark Fuhrman?
MR. ROKAHR: I may have said that to you. I didn't realize I stayed by my car for a while.
MR. NEUFELD: Sir, during the lunch break, did you speak to assistant District Attorney Christopher Darden about your involvement in this case?
THE COURT: Deputy District Attorney.
MR. ROKAHR: I don't know whether that was--we spoke, but I don't know whether that was during the lunch period.

Return 400
MR. NEUFELD: Well, what was the next thing that happened after you completed shooting these location shots, sir?
MR. ROKAHR: I believe at that point, I met up with Mark Fuhrman, Detective Mark Fuhrman.

Return 0405
Q BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE AT THE MURDER SCENE?
Vannatter: AT BUNDY?
Q YES.
Vannatter: 4:05 IN THE MORNING.

Return 410
MR. NEUFELD: Sir, are you admitting that yesterday morning, when I interviewed you at the police department headquarters at Parker center, that you said to me that you met up with Mark Fuhrman approximately five or 10 minutes after completing the overall photographs or at about 4:10 in the morning or so? Do you recall saying that to me yesterday on tape?
MR. ROKAHR: Yes, I do.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And when you met up with Mark Fuhrman at approximately 4:10 in the morning, sir, did Mark Fuhrman take you on another walk-through through the scene?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct. Detective Fuhrman asked me to come around I believe it's Dorothy Street to the back of the house to show me what we have as far as a crime scene is concerned and as far as evidence is concerned. By the time we arrived to the actual crime scene, he first of all pointed out--the bodies were obvious--where there is some evidence, and he asked me to photograph it. Yeah. And he--I asked him to actually point out where the evidence is because it was rather dark in the green foliage there.

***** Return to Goldman's borrowed car *****
=== Ron Goldman's car {Lange} === THE WITNESS: THERE WAS ONE LOCATED, YES.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A A VEHICLE DRIVEN TO THE LOCATION BY MR. GOLDMAN PARKED ON DOROTHY STREET SOUTH OF THE BUNDY LOCATION.
Q FACING WHICH WAY ON DOROTHY?
A FACING WEST.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER THE KEYS THAT WERE FOUND NEAR THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN, SIR?
A YES.
THE COURT: THEY WERE NOT PHYSICALLY CHECKED?
THE WITNESS: THEY WERE IDENTIFIED BY THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE AND THE KEYS TO ME.
Q AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KEYS THAT WERE FOUND NEAR THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN?
A THEY WERE ULTIMATELY TURNED OVER TO THEIR OWNER.
Q WHO WAS?
A FIRST NAME IS ANDREA. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK. HER LAST NAME ESCAPES ME AT THE MOMENT.
=== when did Goldman get car? === I THINK THE COURT AGREES THAT WE ARE RIGHT ON THE OBJECTION. IF IT IS NOT, SO BE IT, MAYBE IT HELPS HER FINISH FASTER, BUT WE THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT. I DON'T THINK ANY WITNESSES ARE GOING TO SAY HE DROVE THAT CAR THERE. THAT CAR WAS AROUND THE CORNER HEADED IN A DIRECTION WHICH MAY BE TOTALLY INCONSISTENT WITH WHERE GORHAM IS, NOW THAT WE HAVE HAD THE JURY VIEW, SO I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO DO THAT.

Return 0430 -
MR. NEUFELD: Now, sir, if, as you indicated yesterday during the interview, that you first encountered Mark Fuhrman at 4:10 A.M., how long did it take you to walk with Mark Fuhrman to the location where these items of evidence were in the green foliage approximately? Well, I'm not asking you for a specific--whether it's four minutes or seven minutes, sir. I'm just asking you, would it be fair to say, for instance, that it's less than 15 minutes from the time that Mr. Fuhrman encountered you and the time you got to those items of evidence which are in the green foliage?
MR. ROKAHR: Could be 15 minutes, could be 20 minutes, 30. I'm not sure.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Would it be a fair estimate that it was something between 15 minutes and 30 minutes?
MR. ROKAHR: I think it's a fair estimate.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. So, sir, if, as you told me yesterday, that it was approximately 4:10 in the morning when you encountered Mr. Fuhrman at 875 Bundy at the time that he was having you take pictures of items of evidence that were in and about the green foliage, would that be sometime between 4:25 in the morning and 4:40 in the morning based on your estimate, sir?
MR. ROKAHR: I would say it's fair.

At Grand Jury, Clark is already covering for FUHRMAN. Fuhrman had Lange's role & authority first.
CLARK: WAS THERE SOME MANNER IN WHICH THE SCENE WAS BEING SECURED?
LANGE: YES. THE SCENE WAS SECURED BY YELLOW POLICE LINE TAPE AS WELL AS UNIFORMED PATROL OFFICERS AND DETECTIVES FROM THE WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION.
CLARK: NO ONE WAS ALLOWED IN THE CRIME SCENE. IS THAT STANDARD PROCEDURE, SIR, THAT THE INITIAL OFFICERS WILL SECURE A CRIME SCENE UNTIL THE INVESTIGATING OR HANDLING DETECTIVE APPEARS ON THE SCENE?
SO YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED INSIDE TO VIEW THE EVIDENCE AND VIEW THE VICTIMS?
LANGE: MY PARTNER {PHILLIP VANNATTER} AND MYSELF.

Clark asks about blood drops. And Lange sets stage for Fuhrman's theory. Clark applies false logic SMEARS? "SMEARS" denotes rubbing not drops. Yet she sets stage for our
CLARK: AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, PRIOR OR BEFORE THE CRIMINALIST ARRIVED TO COLLECT THE EVIDENCE, CAN YOU TELL ME WHO, IF ANYONE, WAS PERMITTED NEAR THE BODIES OR THE EVIDENCE OR THE BLOOD OR THE FOOTPRINTS AT THE CRIME SCENE?
VANNATTER: AT THE TIME I WAS THERE, THERE WAS ONLY THREE PEOPLE THAT EVEN APPROACHED CLOSE.
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MYSELF, MY PARTNER, DETECTIVE LANGE, AND THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE FROM WEST L.A. DETECTIVES, WHO WAS RON PHILLIPS.
NO ONE ELSE THAT I SAW WAS IN THAT CRIME SCENE.

Return 0430 -
Q NOW, THE BLOOD ON THE FRONT WALKWAY, SIR, BASED ON WHAT YOU COULD SEE, WHAT WAS THE SOURCE OF THAT BLOOD?
Lange: IN MY MIND THE SOURCE OF THE BLOOD WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
Q OKAY. AND DID IT GO -- THAT FLOW PRETTY MUCH ALL THE WAY DOWN THE WALKWAY?
Lange: YES, IT DID.
Q WAS THERE ANY BLOOD FLOWING FROM RON GOLDMAN ONTO THE WALKWAY?
Lange: NONE THAT I -- NONE THAT I COULD OBSERVE.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS IN BLOOD ON THE FRONT WALKWAY?
A THERE WERE PARTIAL SHOEPRINTS BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS ON THE WALKWAY. I SAW NOTHING TO THE EAST OF THE GATE LEADING DOWN TO THE SIDEWALK.
Q RIGHT. OKAY. I'M TALKING ABOUT DID YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS IN BLOOD LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES DOWN THE WALKWAY TOWARD THE SIDEWALK?
A NO.

0440
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And the couple of pictures that Detective Fuhrman instructed you to take at that point, sir, were they pictures of Mr. Fuhrman pointing at the glove? --I'm sorry. Did Detective Fuhrman instruct you to take any pictures of him pointing at objects of evidence?
MR. ROKAHR: No, he didn't. I requested him to point to the evidence.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And was the evidence that you requested him to point to the glove and the hat?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And, sir, was one of the reasons that you asked Detective Fuhrman to point to the item is because it was nighttime and thus, the glove was difficult to see?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Do you know approximately how many photographs you took of Detective Fuhrman pointing at items of evidence near the green foliage that night?
MR. ROKAHR: I believe only those two.
Return 0440 4:40 AM
MR. NEUFELD: And in the next several photographs that you took--after you took photographs of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove, for those next several photographs, were you being instructed by a police officer to take photographs or were you simply using your own professional judgment and taking them alone?
MR. ROKAHR: Some were of my own choices and some were--there were no police officers instructing me. It would have been Mark Fuhrman.
MR. NEUFELD: Sir, for instance, sequentially, the next five photographs that you took after you took pictures of Mark Fuhrman pointing at the glove, for those five pictures, were you relying on your own professional judgment or were you being instructed by a detective or police officer to take those pictures?
MR. ROKAHR: At that point, I believe Mark Fuhrman said, "Let's go around the front of the building and shoot from there." The reason I'm saying now that Mark Fuhrman instructed me to go around the front is because I switched from the actual crime scene, and we had to walk all the way around front to do these photographs, and I think I was instructed.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm simply asking, is there a method, a technical method that you can determine a sequence in which photographs are taken?
MR. ROKAHR: Yes, there is. There'sMr.counter on each--on most of the cameras we use. When we arrive at a crime scene, there is a data back on the back of my camera and I can set, as far as the counter is concerned, six numbers, 000000. From then on, it will count up every shot that is taken. It adds a number, a digit to it. That would be my slate in the photograph.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, in this particular instance, can you by looking in your book tell us what the numbers were in sequence of the two photographs you took of Detective Mark Fuhrman pointing at the glove?
MR. ROKAHR: Yes, I could. That would be 34 and 35.
MR. NEUFELD: That means that those are the 34th and 35th pictures that you took at Bundy that night?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, what I want you to do is look at photographs 36, in other words, the one immediately after 35, where Fuhrman is pointing at the glove, all the way through 43. Do you see those?
MR. ROKAHR: Yes, sir.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, isn't it a fact, sir, that when you took those photographs, the first eight photographs after Fuhrman is pointing at the glove, that as to those eight photographs, you were not having any detective instruct you as to what to shoot, but you were simply relying on your own professional judgment? Isn't that a fact?
MR. ROKAHR: Yes, I would say it's a fact because of the--the sequence in these photographs, which is the way I shoot.
MR. NEUFELD: And how many exposures are there in each roll that you use, sir?
MR. ROKAHR: 36 exposures.
MR. NEUFELD: Is that your standard practice?
MR. ROKAHR: That is what I prefer.
MR. NEUFELD: And if you printed the first roll of film, then anyone who wanted to know what the sequence of photographs were would be able to ascertain that; would they not?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: When the roll of film is printed, do those numbers appear on each and every print?
MR. ROKAHR: It depends what the background is on the negative. If the background is very light, they're quite often difficult to see.
MR. NEUFELD: But other than the fact that it may be difficult to see, is it the procedure that that number that you use on the counter will appear in the print?
MR. ROKAHR: It should be, yeah.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And in fact, in that exhibit which I have shown you, do the numbers appear in the lower right-hand corner? The ones that do not show, is that because the background is extremely light? But can you tell the number because of the print that is directly in front of it or directly before it?
MR. ROKAHR: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Aside from the number in the lower right-hand corner of the actual print, is there also a number beneath the print which indicates which frame it was or which shot it was in the roll? Are there numbers below each print there that would show you it is the third frame or the fourth frame or the sixth frame? The one put on by Kodak. And do those also appear on those sheets?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Just a couple questions first. Sir, in the--those establishment, location, overall shots, whatever you want to call it, those first 33 shots, in those 33 shots, you used the flash?
MR. ROKAHR: I use a flash on every photograph I take.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And when you shot the two photographs of Detective Fuhrman pointing at the glove, as to those two shots, you shot those with a flash; did you not?
MR. ROKAHR: That is correct.
{sept 5th} Return to Sequence

Return 0445
Clark: AND WHILE YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT, IS THAT WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT FOR ANOTHER LOCATION?
Riske: YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ACTUALLY APPROACHED ME, GAVE ME A CELLULAR PHONE AND SAID THEY WERE GOING TO THE -- ROCKINGHAM. THEY ASKED ME DIRECTIONS TO GET THERE.
Clark: AND DID YOU ASSIST THEM BY GIVING DIRECTIONS? WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOCATION?
Riske: YES. THAT AREA, NOT THAT LOCATION.

Cochran: DID YOU TELL THE POLICE THAT AFTER THE POLICE ARRIVED, A MAN THAT LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM 875 CAME OUT AND SAID THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOG STARTED BARKING AT 10:30 P.M.? DID YOU TELL HIM THAT?
Boztepe: YES, I REMEMBER.

Return 0455 - Officers Leave Bundy.

0505
Bailey: WHEN THEY LEFT, WHEN ALL FOUR DETECTIVES LEFT, THE THREE WHO WERE NOW IN CHANGE OF THAT SCENE, WHO WAS IN CHARGE AT THE SCENE AT ROCKINGHAM?
Riske: MY SUPERVISOR. EITHER SERGEANT ROSSI OR SERGEANT COON.

0510 - Officers arrive at Rockingham.
Return tp 0505 5:05 AM
Return 0510
Vannatter: I PULLED TO THE -- PULLED INTO THE ASHFORD INTERSECTION AND PARKED AT THE SOUTH CURB OF ASHFORD JUST EAST OF ROCKINGHAM.
Q AND WHAT TIME IN THE MORNING WAS THIS?
Vannatter: APPROXIMATELY 5:10 IN THE MORNING.

Return 0514
Q DID YOU ALSO CAUSE WESTEC TO BE CALLED AND ASK FOR A UNIT TO BE SENT OUT?
A I ASKED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO CONTACT THEM TO SEE IF WE COULD GET ANY INFORMATION REGARDING THE ESTATE THERE, YES.
Q AND DID HE?
A TO MY KNOWLEDGE HE DID, YES.
Q DID HE ASK, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, FOR A UNIT TO BE SENT OUT?
A I THINK THAT OCCURRED WHEN HE WAS TALKING TO THE FIRST UNIT THERE REGARDING A PHONE NUMBER. I THINK THAT UNIT REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR BE SENT TO THE LOCATION.
Q WHAT TIME WAS THAT?
A THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AROUND -- I BELIEVE AROUND 5:30 IN THE MORNING, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND WHAT TIME DID THAT UNIT ARRIVE?
A WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME.

0515
Cochran: AND WHERE DID YOU WRITE THIS REPORT? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU WROTE IT?
Riske: 5:15. I WAS IN THE REAR ALLEY SITTING IN MY CAR.
Cochran: WERE YOU ACCOMPANIED BY ANYBODY AT THAT POINT?
Riske: MY PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS.
BY MR. COCHRAN: I WILL PLACE BEFORE YOU D-1006 {log} AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS AND REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AND TELL THE COURT AND JURY WHICH OFFICERS, IF ANY, WERE GIVEN SUCH AN ACCESS.
Riske: THERE WAS MYSELF AND OFFICER TERRAZAS, SERGEANT COON, OFFICER WALLEY, OFFICER GLORIOSO WAS IN THE BACK, PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN SERGEANT ROSSI AND THE DETECTIVES
MR. COCHRAN: WHAT ABOUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, DID HE COME AT SOME POINT?
Riske: YES, SIR, HE CAME. HE WAS IN THE REAR.
MR. COCHRAN: WHAT ABOUT CAPTAIN ZIEMAN, HE WASN'T THERE?
Riske: HE WAS -- I BELIEVE HE WAS AT THE TAPE. THAT WAS IT. HE DIDN'T GO ACROSS THE TAPE. I SAW HIM AT THE TAPE.

Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME SERGEANT ROSSI CALLED WESTEC?
A NO, I DO NOT.
Q WHEN THEY WERE CALLED BY LAPD?
A WELL, I DIDN'T MAKE THE PHONE CALLS. I BELIEVE THE FIRST PHONE CALL WAS MADE APPROXIMATELY 5:15 TO 5:30.
Return 0515 5:15 AM

Suspect?/A> At the Preliminary Hearing, Fuhrman is already being queried as to his beinging evidence from one scene to another; what other officer was asked this same question?
{OJ08.txt}Preliminary Hearing A question NOT asked of other officers.
17 UELMAN: When you left the scene at 875 Bundy and went to
18 the Rockingham address, did you bring any of the evidence
19 with you that you had encountered at the Bundy scene?
20 Fuhrman: I touched no evidence and I offered no reports.
Return to Fuhrman

Return 0525
Vannatter: PROBABLY WITHIN 10 TO 15 MINUTES. I WALKED AROUND AND LOOKED AT THE BRONCO PARKED THERE. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS ALREADY AT THE BRONCO AND I LOOKED -- I LOOKED DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM GATE DRIVEWAY TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON THE DOOR, AND THAT GATE WAS SECURED. I OBSERVED TWO VEHICLES PARKED IN THAT DRIVEWAY.
TO PUT IT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, WHILE WE'RE RINGING THE BUZZER, I OBSERVED A WESTEC SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE ASHFORD GATE. I WAS AWARE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD A CELLULAR PHONE, AND I ASKED HIM TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO WEST -- TO THE SECURITY COMPANY TO SEE IF WE COULD GET A PHONE NUMBER TO THE RESIDENCE. HE WALKED TO THE VEHICLE -- HIS POLICE VEHICLE TO GET HIS TELEPHONE. I WALKED OUT TOWARD THE INTERSECTION AT THE SAME TIME DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALKED WITH US BACK TOWARD THE POLICE VEHICLE. I STOOD THERE IN THE INTERSECTION AS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS MAKING PHONE CALLS. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WALKED DOWN TOWARD THE VEHICLE. I COULD SEE HIM AT ALL TIMES.
Darden: AND WHY DID YOU WALK TOWARD THE BRONCO?
Vannatter: AGAIN, I WANTED TO SEE REGARDING THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, IF THERE WAS A POSSIBLE WAY TO GET TO THE FRONT DOOR TO KNOCK ON THE FRONT DOOR OR SEE WHAT I COULD SEE FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOME. THAT'S CORRECT, TO GET A PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOME AND THE AREA TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY I COULD GET TO THE FRONT DOOR FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. {Fuhrman} POINTED OUT A STICK ON THE PARKWAY AND SOME ARTICLES THAT WERE IN THE CARGO AREA OF THE VEHICLE. I OBSERVED IT FROM MAYBE THREE OR FOUR FEET AWAY. I NOTICED A SHOVEL AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A PIECE OF PLASTIC IN A POCKET AREA ALONG THE PASSENGER'S REAR -- REAR CARGO AREA AND WHAT APPEARED TO BE A WHITE CLOTH OR SOMETHING IN THE BACK OF THE CAR. -- WHILE I WAS LOOKING IN, THERE WAS A PACKAGE IN THE BACK ALSO THAT WAS ADDRESSED I BELIEVE ORENTHAL PRODUCTIONS, AND I KNEW MR. SIMPSON'S NAME WAS ORENTHAL JAMES. I KNEW THAT. SO I BELIEVED AT THAT POINT, THAT POSSIBLY THIS WAS HIS VEHICLE. I ASKED DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TO DO A DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLE CHECK ON THE VEHICLE. I LOOKED DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. I SAW VEHICLES AND I WALKED BACK TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD WHERE I OBSERVED A WESTEC UNIT THAT HAD PULLED UP AND APPARENTLY HAD BEEN STOPPED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. I WALKED UP TO THAT LOCATION. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE WESTEC OFFICER, WAS REQUESTING THE TELEPHONE NUMBER FOR THE LOCATION. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN CAME TO ME AND TOLD ME THAT THE VEHICLE WAS REGISTERED TO HORTZ -- TO HERTZ CORPORATION. WHILE I WAS STANDING IN THE STREET, HE WALKED BACK TO THE BRONCO, WAS THERE A VERY SHORT TIME AND WALKED A LITTLE WAY BACK UP THE STREET AND CALLED ME TO COME BACK TO THE BRONCO. HE POINTED OUT A SPOT ABOVE THE DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE THAT APPEARED TO BE A REDDISH BROWNISH TYPE STAIN THAT LOOKED LIKE BLOOD TO ME.

0530
Q AND DID YOU -- HOW LONG DID YOU STAY OUT THERE IN THE REAR AREA, REAR ALLEY?
Riske: I WOULD ESTIMATE TILL 5:30, AROUND 5:30, AND THEN WE WENT TO THE FRONT. WE OPENED BUNDY UP TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. SO WE JUST -- ALL WE HAD WAS A CRIME SCENE FROM THE HOUSE NORTH, NICOLE'S HOUSE, AND THE HOUSE SOUTH, AND WE JUST MAINTAINED -- WE SAT IN FRONT OF THAT CRIME SCENE. WE ACTUALLY MOVED OUR VEHICLE AND PARKED IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE -- IN FRONT OF 875 SO THE WALKWAY WASN'T VISIBLE FROM THE STREET.
Q SO YOU BLOCKED THE VIEW?
A THAT'S CORRECT. WE DIDN'T WANT PASSERSBY TO LOOK DOWN THERE AND SEE WHAT IT WAS, TRYING TO KEEP THE MEDIA OUT. {It was} STILL DARK.

Q WHEN DID YOU WANT IT TO BE SECURE? WHEN DID YOU DECIDE FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS VEHICLE SHOULD BE SECURED?
Vannatter: APPROXIMATELY 5:30 IN THE MORNING.
Q AND BY "SECURED," YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT NO TRACE EVIDENCE COULD BE TAMPERED WITH REGARDING THAT VEHICLE?
Vannatter: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
Q THAT NO EVIDENCE INSIDE THAT VEHICLE COULD BE TAMPERED WITH?
Vannatter: THAT'S CORRECT, YES. Q AND THAT NO EVIDENCE IN THE SURROUNDING AREA OF THAT VEHICLE COULD BE TAMPERED WITH; IS THAT CORRECT?
Vannatter: YES, SIR.
Q SO YOU WANTED TO CORDON OFF THAT ENTIRE AREA WITH TAPE; IS THAT CORRECT?
Vannatter: NO. I PUT UNIFORMED POLICE OFFICERS ON THE VEHICLE TO PROTECT THE VEHICLE.
Q HOW MANY OFFICERS DID YOU ASSIGN TO PROTECT THE VEHICLE?
Vannatter: A TWO-MAN UNIFORMED CAR.
Q WHO ARE THEY?
Vannatter: I BELIEVE THEIR NAMES WERE GONZALEZ AND ASTON.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: AS YOU ENTERED ROCKINGHAM, YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT YOU SEARCHED THE GROUNDS TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS INJURED IN THE AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?
Vannatter: YES.
Q AT THAT TIME DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE LANGE AS TO WHAT TO DO?
Vannatter: NO.
Q DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AS TO WHAT TO DO?
Vannatter: NO.
Q DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AS TO WHAT TO DO?
Vannatter: NO.

Bailey: WAS IT NOT YOU WHO SAID TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, "WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY HERE. THERE MAY BE PEOPLE BLEEDING TO DEATH INSIDE"?
Fuhrman: YES.
Quoting Fuhrman:"I TOLD DETECTIVE VANNATTER, I SAID 'WE GOT A REAL -- WE GOT AN EMERGENCY, WE GOT A PROBLEM -- WE GOT -- WE DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE PEOPLE INSIDE THAT ARE IN DANGER, DYING, BLEEDING TO DEATH. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. I DON'T CARE WHOSE HOUSE THIS IS. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. WE DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE A MURDER, SUICIDE, A KIDNAPPING, ANOTHER VICTIM,' AND PHIL AGREED AND WE TOOK OUR OPINIONS TO DETECTIVE LANGE AND PHILLIPS AND DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITIES."
Return 0530 5:30 AM

Return to affirm *** Marcia Clark affirms Arnelle has no contact with Fuhrman. ***
MS. CLARK: Now, during that entire conversation you had with them {Phillips & Lange}, the -- Detective Fuhrman was not present; is that right? And when you left your room with them, he was in the room or he was standing in front of Kato's room talking to him? So at no point did you ever have any conversation with Detective Fuhrman about how to reach your father or where he was; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
=== Clark needs to cover for Fuhrman - no concern about Vannatter. ===
Return 0543
Petrocelli: Now, you were awakened at some point in the morning or next day?
Kaelin: I was having--I wasn't sleeping good at all, and it was one--like I said, it was still--Arnelle was home. I felt better that someone's on the grounds but still shaky, and I wasn't--I was not in a real deep sleep. And during part of the night I thought I was dreaming, but I kept hearing the continuing--continual ringing of a phone. And the phone from the house rings different than my phone, and it was kind of like a phaser on stun, that kind of noise from STAR TREK, that (sound), that kind of noise. So that noise kept going on and on and on, and I thought it was in my dream. I kept going, what is going--because it seemed like it was for hours. But I was just turning and turning, and then there was a pounding at my door.
In that--I mean, I don't know how much time had passed because I was tossing and turning, but there was that phone ringing noise. It was pretty continual. {when I heard the pounding at the door} I woke up. You know, I was-- "Who's there?" And they said, "The police." And I went. "Oh, God," and I got--I looked through that little latch. I have those wooden panels, and I couldn't really tell if they were police. They were in suits. And I started thinking about the whole night and I go, "Oh, my God, are they really cops," and all that, and then I kind of saw a badge on the belt, and I opened the door.
They asked who I was. You know, I don't know the exact order of everything. They asked who I was, and I told them who I was, whose house it was, who else was here. One of the detectives came in then, into my room, asked me what I wore that night, checked the things that I wore from jeans to boots, and I started going, "What happened? Did O.J.'s plane crash? What's going on?" They wouldn't answer me. They wouldn't answer anything I was asking them. I'm going--and so I was just getting very uptight. And at some point they said, "Is someone else here?" I pointed to Arnelle's room, and I think Mark Fuhrman stayed with me and did a test with the light or--one of the two, to see if I did drugs or something.
Petrocelli: Did he ask you if you had done drugs?
Kaelin: Yeah. He said, "Did you"-- I said, "No." I said, "I don't do drugs."
Petrocelli: And then he shown a light in your eyes?
Kaelin: I think it was follow a pen. It was one of the two. It was definitely one of those tests, though. . My eyes were red. My eyes were red. And he asked me then if I smoked pot that night. I said, "No." {they were red} Because I have this infection here (Indicating). It's still kind of red. I have these things on my eyes, and they always are pretty much red, and if I read, they get real red.
Petrocelli: You said one of the officers was looking at your clothing and your boots? Who was that? And what did he do when he looked at your clothing? This is clothing that you had taken off?
Kaelin: I believe Fuhrman. No, no. I was in my pajamas, so this was there on the chair. Yeah. I was in shorts and a shirt.
Yeah. And I still was--I couldn't figure out what he was talking about, so--but I was showing him everything, and I was kind of talking very high energy and going, "I don't know if it means anything"; I told him about this noise I heard. I said, "I heard this noise back there, and this picture moved. I thought we had an earthquake again." I mentioned that thing and--
To Fuhrman. I think I said it to everybody, but I think Fuhrman first.
He wasn't really talking to me.
He was doing all the talking. If he had something to say, he would tell me, but everything I was saying, he wasn't really paying attention--he was paying attention, but he wouldn't really comment on anything I was saying.
He looked at the bottom of my shoes. They were these like the boots, they're like Doc Martens.
The sole of my shoes. He might have looked around the room. There was a point where I was out of my room, too. He was still there, and I came in. It was very confusing. I was just very flustered. And so much was going on, I was trying to remember in the right order, but Detective Vannatter--Detective Vannatter took notes at one point, and I was at the bar, and I told him the events of the night.
Petrocelli: So you first told Fuhrman about the events of the night and then Vannatter?
Kaelin: Well, Fuhrman I was telling kind of everything to. It wasn't--it was just kind of, "Yeah, well, did his plane crash? Did this happen?" "Did you smoke pot?" "No, I don't smoke pot." "And who else lives here?" "Arnelle." I go, "I heard this noise. It was here. It moved my picture." And then he'd go on. And I was talking very fast.
Petrocelli: When he finished--when Fuhrman finished talking to you in your room, what did the police then do with you?
Kaelin: Oh, I was--they never left. There was always someone with me. I pointed out where Arnelle's room was, so two of them went there. They were pounding on her door for quite a while, like pounding on her door and pounding on her door, and she wasn't answering.
Yeah {I was watching}. I was starting to think, "I know I thought I heard"--you know, from the footsteps, I think I said, "I think she's in there. And there was pounding and pounding and pounding, and it seemed like three or four minutes she then came out. They said "Police" again.
Petrocelli: Now, did you say anything to the police about the alarm being on or that you had set the alarm?
Kaelin: They might have asked me that. I might have said something about that--probably when I was sitting at the bar with Vannatter, I said about the call coming from O.J., that he asked me to set the alarm. I don't think I had set it until then. I think he asked if there was an alarm to the house, and I think I said, "Yeah, there's an alarm." If I had keys. I said "No."
Petrocelli: At some point after they banged on Arnelle's door, they took you inside the residence? How did they get inside?
Kaelin: Arnelle had keys. All of us walked in, right. I followed them. {Arnelle opened} The back door, the back door here (Indicating - on Exhibit 27).
Petrocelli: Do you know whether there is a keypad there from which the alarm can be deactivated?
Kaelin: I don't think there is. I'm not aware of it if there is. {I'm} Pretty positive that was the door they went through, yes.
There was always someone with me and her at all times, and then they--someone pointed out that I should just have a seat here, and that was a seat at the bar. But I don't know exactly when because I know I was in the kitchen at one point, out of the kitchen, and that's when they asked me if I knew about the Bronco keys were, if there were a set of Bronco keys. I said "Yeah. I think there's another set around here somewhere," and I helped look through like a drawer or two but never found them.
{They asked about} If it was--I think stuff about O.J.'s flight, what time it left. I said he was in Chicago. Yeah, I mean there's a lot --I mean, if you know something, I mean-- There's that. There's looking for the keys. Then at some point they told us the news of what happened. That Nicole was murdered. {who said it} I think it was on the phone I heard Arnelle scream, and that's when I knew something, and then they--came in. I don't know if it was Fuhrman or Vannatter.
Petrocelli: Did they ask you if you knew anything about it?
Kaelin: They asked if I knew her. I said "Yes, I know her," and they asked me some questions about her, and I think I explained to them how I knew her, and then I told them-- {still in bar area} Yes, in the bar area. See, part of this--where I'm at the bar area where I'm at a bar stool with Vannatter taking notes, and I can't distinguish exactly the scream, when they came in, when I started looking for Bronco keys. Everything is just so --happening all at that same time, it seemed like, so I can't tell you exactly. It seemed like I was--sat down right away, though.
Petrocelli: Did they at any time ask you to show them around the house at all?
Kaelin: No.
Petrocelli: Did they take you through the foyer at all?
Kaelin: At one time, yes. That's when they said I was going to the police station, and then they led me out. And when they were leading me out, they said, "Watch out for the blood," and I went--and I saw blood on the ground. It was in the foyer. Drops of blood. Quite a few. It's one of those floors that has--they're the round circles to the floor, the wood, and they're like that pegs-- and they're circles, and they were mixed in with the pegs.
And it seemed like there were quite a few. I can't give you a number, but it seemed like with those dots and everything, there was quite a few drops of blood.
Petrocelli: About what time was it when you saw the blood in the foyer?
Kaelin: I'm guessing about 6:45, 7:00 a.m. I'm thinking--I know I was waiting on the street for a while for the police to take me down. Kaelin confirms Foyer blood near kitchen
Petrocelli: Was that blood in the foyer--did you notice if it was near the door to the kitchen?
Kaelin: Yes. {and, when I saw the blood} I watched my foot, my steps, because I looked down and I went, there's blood.
{Are you dressed} I think at one point they let me put on jeans and a shirt. I don't know exactly when, but definitely when I was waiting in the street, they let me go and get some clothes on.
No, they didn't {take me to the station}. They said they had a squad coming. And the squad never showed up, but there were squad cars there already, and then they just said "You guys take him." So the squad they called to take me never did show, and there were two other cops in uniforms outside, that were outside on the street. They were the ones that eventually took me down there, because the people that were supposed to, whoever they were, didn't--weren't --didn't show up.
Petrocelli: So about what time did you leave to go to the police station?
Kaelin: It seemed like it was about 7:30 a.m.
Oh, I don't think I went back in my room until like Monday at 10:00 at night or 11:00 at night {on 13th}.
I checked messages from the police station {using a remote}. I had--the entire tape was filled up. And I was with the police there, and it was so long. I just heard my mom was crying. And I wasn't aware that it was a big media event yet, so I didn't figure out through my mom's message she thought I was dead. So someone had told her that the person that was dead was me, and so she was leaving this message, and like I couldn't figure out exactly what was going on. So that--I hung up the phone on the thing because it was so long, and the police then called me back into this room, so I never finished it. No {I don't know how many messages}. But it's a beep that I could tell that it was like full. I think it's a 15-minute tape. {I listened to} Maybe two or three. Boy, there could have been {hang-ups}. It doesn't say "hang up." It just might make a click or--
Petrocelli: And do you remember who took your statement? And you told them about the events of the night before?
Kaelin: I believe it was Brian Carr and Paul Tippin.
Petrocelli: What time did they take you home?
Kaelin: I think it was 4:00 or 4:30. It was late afternoon. They said to me it's not good for me to go back right now. It's a big huge media thing. They said, "Where do you want to go?" I said. "Take me to my buddy's house, Grant's," so they dropped me off there. Grant Cramer. I think I was at Grant's house probably from, estimating, 5:00 until maybe 9:00, 8:30, 9:00.
Petrocelli: Did you get any phone calls from Mr. Simpson during that time? Or Cathy Randa?
Kaelin: I got a phone call I think maybe the next day there or was--it could have been the same day there at Grant's house, and I think it was Cathy Randa. It could have been that same day. {she said} That Howard Weitzman wanted to talk to me. And I don't know if she gave me the number or I gave her that number where I was at; I don't remember, but I remember talking to him at his house, at Grant's house. Weitzman on the phone, and it was a three-way call. O.J. was on one line, too. I think it {that call with Weitzman} occurred before I went to Rockingham. I think. I...
Petrocelli: And you said you got back to Rockingham finally on the 13th around what time? Why?
Kaelin: I think it was 9:00 or 10:00. It was later. I didn't have any clothes. I thought everybody was wondering, where's Kato? Why isn't Kato here, and I didn't want it to seem like, God, Kato's not here. I wonder what he thinks. One of those things where everybody was going to gang up on me. So I felt like it was my--I should go back to the house.
I believe Grant took me.
Petrocelli: And you believe as of this time you had spoken to Mr. Weitzman and Mr. Simpson on a three-way call?
Kaelin: I think so. It was a call where he was asking me about the events again. Howard Weitzman asked me what went on and... Yeah, because this is --I want to think here, because I remember talking and, boy, I can't give you the exact time in my mind-- What my mind says is I thought I saw him in person that night first. I thought that's what it was.
Okay. So I got dropped off at Rockingham, and I think they let me in the gate. They saw it was me, and they let me in the house-- There was people there that I didn't know, and some group was all family, and other people that I just did not recognize at all. People were continually coming in. I couldn't tell you from day to day when I saw one person, if it was the Monday or a Tuesday, because it was like a continual flow of people coming in, into the house. So I walked into the house, and everybody was in the living room, and there were --all three TVs were on. There was a big screen and two TVs above the big screen. And O.J. was sitting in a chair. It was kind of like--this one is kind of a leather chair, but a big one. And I was to the side, and they were all watching the--I think it was KNBC and shouting things to the TV. Well, like "Oh, no, that's not true," or that--I don't know the exact things, but, "What are they saying"--
So I was behind the chair where O.J. was, and I just remember him with a tissue with blood on a finger, and I just was like in my head thinking, oh, I didn't want to be right there at that time. And I remember O.J. saying something like, "Well, Kato knows where I was." It was a thing about the McDonald's, I think, on TV. And someone said, "Kato's right there," and then O.J. looked, and I said, "I'm sorry about what happened and about Nicole," and it was me saying that. And I think I went into the kitchen then and--
Petrocelli: Before you went in the kitchen, when O.J. said. "Kato knows where I was," did you say anything back to him about that comment?
Kaelin: No. I think I was quiet. I was pretty much quiet the entire time. I wasn't feeling good, and I was shook up from everything.
Petrocelli: Did you see blood on his finger?
Kaelin: Yes. If I remember, I thought he had a tissue on this finger (Indicating - Middle finger, left hand). I think it was paper towel. I saw the blood coming through the tissue. {I didn't ask him about it because I was scared, didn't want to think bad thoughts, and} I thought it was possibly that something --O.J. could have done something.
Petrocelli: You mean like murdered his wife?
Kaelin: Possible. I mean it crossed my mind. I thought of everything possible, and I was getting sick to my stomach with everything. I just was thinking about the events of everything and going, why did I hear that, why did I do this, and the setting the alarm--everything, I was just trying to figure out. I was going, no, it can't be, and just all that stuff was adding up.
Petrocelli: How did you feel in that roomful of people?
Kaelin: I wanted to go away, just myself. It was nothing against any of the people. I just wanted to get out. I didn't feel good about being there. It was just an uneasy feeling, that I wanted to go and get out of the house.
No {I didn't go out of the house}. Well, I left many times. I was there. I never--I--slept in the room again. I kind of gave my room up. I slept--when I stayed there. Other times I slept at Grant's house or a friend's house during that time, and I didn't go really back into my room. I gave it up to the family, O.J.'s family members.
Either I was in the kitchen first or O.J. was in the kitchen, but we both ended up in the kitchen. Yes {alone}. I mean, there's people in the house. {OJ & I were} In the kitchen alone. Right. I think it was condolences I started giving again, and then I propped myself up on the kitchen sink. I kind of hung over. And I believe O.J. just said, "You know I went into the house from McDonald's." And I-- "You know I went into the house after McDonald's." And I said--I believe I said, "No, I didn't see you go in," and that was it.
I don't think I--I think that was the end of the conversation. Maybe he went back into that room or I took off. And I think I just said, "O.J., I didn't see you go in there. I didn't see you go in the house. I didn't"
{then} Something came up. Either someone came in or there was a disruption. I went to my room. I don't remember right now.
I think I did {spend the evening}. I think I did. I think I slept on the floor next to Gigi.
=== Fuhrman is looking for a suspect, not making a death notification === Fuhrman {on Kaelin}:"I WASN'T SURE IF HE WAS EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. I STAYED WITH HIM AND ENGAGED HIM IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE WAS DOING THERE AND A FEW OTHER THINGS."
=== He's seeking a location to plant the glove; Kaelin provides it, but. === "DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM," MEANING KATO KAELIN, "AT THAT TIME," 47 LINE 12.{Pre-Lim Fuhrman testimony read by Bailey at trial} "ANSWER: YES. SIMULTANEOUS WITH -- I WAS WALKING -- I WALKED TO THE BATHROOM WHICH I COULDN'T SEE INTO FROM WHERE I WAS STANDING AT THE DOORWAY. I WALKED IN JUST TO MAKE SURE NOBODY WAS IN THERE AND I OPENED UP THE CLOSETS TO MAKE SURE NO ONE WAS STANDING IN THE CLOSETS. I ENGAGED HIM IN CONVERSATION WHILE I WAS DOING THAT. I NOTICED A PILE OF CLOTHES TO THE -- IF YOU WERE LYING IN THE BED, IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT SIDE, NEXT TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BED AND A PAIR OF SHOES. I ASKED HIM IF THOSE WERE THE CLOTHES HE WORE AND HE SAID 'LAST NIGHT' AND HE SAID 'YES' AND I SAID, 'MIND IF I LOOK AT THEM?' HE SAID, 'NO.' I PICKED UP THE SHOES. I LOOKED AT THE SOLES. I PICKED UP THE CLOTHES AND I LOOKED AT THE CLOTHES. THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THEM. I PUT THEM BACK WHERE THEY WERE AND I WAS STILL TALKING TO MR. KAELIN. I ASKED HIM IF THERE IS ANYTHING UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT BEFORE HE ANSWERED -- BEFORE I LET HIM ANSWER, I ASKED, 'WHO DRIVES THE BRONCO?' HE SAYS, 'WELL, THAT'S O.J.'S.' I SAID, 'IS THAT ALL? IS THAT THE ONLY PERSON THAT DRIVES IT?' AND HE GOES, 'YEAH.' I ASKED IF THERE WAS ANYTHING UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED THE PREVIOUS NIGHT. HE SAID, 'WELL, ABOUT QUARTER TO 11:00 I HEARD SOME CRASHING ON MY WALL AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE, BUT THAT WAS ONLY NOISE, JUST ONE TIME AND MY PICTURE SHOOK,' AND HE POINTED TO A PICTURE WHICH WAS JUST TO THE WEST OF HIS BED WHICH WOULD BE THE FAR RIGHT OF HIS ROOM LOOKING INTO HIS ROOM FROM THE DOORWAY. THEN HE SAID, 'I WENT OUTSIDE TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE NOISE AND I SAW A LIMO AT THE GATE.' AT THAT POINT I INTERRUPTED HIM AND I TOOK HIM INTO THE HOUSE WHERE NOW MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER AND THE THREE DETECTIVES HAD ALREADY ENTERED THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE AND THE DOOR WAS OPENED." === doesn't mention the pathway had been checked. And Kaelin also === === provides himself with an alibi for the prior night. === ===Fuhrman in Kaelin's room 5 minutes=== Return 0546
MR. COCHRAN: Now, if you went to bed and went to sleep about 1:00, 1:30 or thereabouts, did there come a time that you were awakened on the morning hours of June 13, 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was awakened around between 5:00 and 5:30 by two gentlemen knocking at my door.
They just -- they were knocking on my door and they said that they had been outside ringing the bell and that they needed to speak with somebody who lived at the house.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know their names now?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe Phillips and Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do I understand that initially when you first were awakened and walked around you only saw the two; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: I saw three. Umm, the third one was in front of Kaelin's room. {It was} Mark Fuhrman.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. So as I understand it then, you left your residence and as you walked you saw mark Fuhrman having a conversation with Kato Kaelin?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: They were inside the room or outside the room?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato was standing in his doorway and Mr. Fuhrman was standing outside the door.
=== Where did Vannatter vanish to? ===

Return 0547
MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see a fourth detective when you were on your way up to the front?
MS. SIMPSON: Right here, (Indicating).
THE COURT: Appears to be the patio area adjacent to the pool.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you know that person's name? Was that Vannatter?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.

Return 0549 - Fuhrman/Kaelin conversation ends.

Return *** Route around House to Kitchen ***
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you walked up those stairs and as you proceeded on your wayheading kind of northbound on the property, you saw Detective Vannatter somewhere in the patio area by the pool; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You continued on with Lange and with Phillips; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion then--would you step down and I want you to show the jury and the Court the route that you took as you sought to get this number so you could try to find your father. Your Honor, she is leaving, your Honor, the area marked "Arnelle's room" and she walks west to an area with some stairs. She goes up the stairs and proceeds past the pool. She went around the north side of the house to an area marked "Driveway" again on People's 66. And you went to an area marked "Entrance." Now, is that the entrance to the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.

Return 0550
MR. COCHRAN: And what did you do when you got to that entrance, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: I went over here to the kitchen, through the kitchen to the phone here and then walked through here, (Indicating), to get to my car. To get my phone book out of the trunk of my car.
MR. COCHRAN: That is the black Saab you described? {Parked behind Bentley.} When you walked that route that you just described for the Court and thejury, was anyone accompanying you at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: The two detectives.
MR. COCHRAN: Lange and Phillips?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.

preliminary hearing
04 UELMAN: Are you suggesting the automobile was moved
05 between the time you saw it and the time these photographs
06 were taken?
07 Fuhrman: I am not suggesting that at all. I am just
08 suggesting where our photographer took the photos from it
09 doesn't really show where exactly I was walking. I was
10 walking -- almost in the middle of the roadway walking down
11 more to the right of the vehicle.
12 I am not saying it was moved. It just seems my
13 view might have given me a more extreme angle than these
14 photos show.

Fuhrman brings Kaelin into house and tells him to sit.
Return 0552
Fuhrman leaves, tells Vannatter to talk to Kaelin, then runs off to plant glove.
[He probably checks out rear for access, goes to his car, gets glove, which would be in plastic evidence bag, & uses it to plant victim's blood in Bronco. He then plants the glove where the noise was heard.] This is the opportunity that Marcia Clark told the Court {and media} Fuhrman never had.

0553 Fuhrman Transcript is read to Vannatter
"WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM," REFERRING TO YOU, DETECTIVE VANNATTER, "THE SUBJECT MATTER ABOUT WHICH HE OUGHT TO BE CONCERNED IF HE WAS GOING TO INTERROGATE A WITNESS?"
HIS ANSWER: "NO REASON. I WANTED TO GO AND INVESTIGATE THE NOISE TO SEE IF WE COULD EVEN GET TO THAT SOUTH WALL.
"WHY DID YOU NOT TELL HIM THAT YOU WERE GOING TO INVESTIGATE A NOISE AND HE SHOULD FINISH THE INVESTIGATION?
"NO REASON."
==========
Q DID YOU GIVE ANY DIRECTION TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN REGARDING A MAN KNOWN AS BRIAN KATO KAELIN?
A NO.
Q HE GAVE YOU DIRECTION, THOUGH, DIDN'T HE?
A NO, HE DIDN'T GIVE ME DIRECTION.
Q HE DIDN'T TELL YOU TO TALK TO KATO?
A HE ASKED ME TO SPEAK WITH HIM.
Q DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HE WANTED YOU TO SPEAK TO KATO ABOUT?
A BRIEFLY, YES.
Q WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT?
A HE SAID THAT KATO HAD HEARD SOME SOUNDS OUTSIDE OF HIS ROOM THAT HE THOUGHT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND HE WANTED ME TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT THAT.

0554 Vannatter sits by Kaelin.

Return 0555
MR. COCHRAN: And during that period of time what did you say to Detective Lange?
MS. SIMPSON: I had asked him that I really needed to know what was happening because I was nervous and he needed to tell me what was going on. He had told me that Nicole--did I know Nicole Simpson, and I said yes, and he said that she had been murdered and that there was somebody else with her.
MR. COCHRAN: And where were you when Detective Lange told you that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, right outside in the back of my car.
MR. COCHRAN: This is after you had come through the kitchen and gone out to get the day book?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes. I immediately started crying and I had asked him are you sure that it was Nicole and he said yes. And I said I don't -- basically I was just shocked. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what to do.
MR. COCHRAN: Before we go back inside the house and after this conversation, were there any other detectives you saw around there at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes. === Kaelin Verifies reaction ===

Return 0556 {allow 5 minutes to recover}
MR. COCHRAN: When you got back in the kitchen, tell us what happened at that point.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, then I had called Cathy Randa. To find out where my father was.

Return 0558
MS. CLARK: And after you spoke--during the--well, after you spoke to Cathy Randa andfound out where Mr. Simpson was, you did not speak to Detective Fuhrman; is that right? And during the time that you were having that conversation, that telephone call with her, Cathy Randa, Detective Fuhrman was not around; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And after you found out where he was, did you communicate that to any of the police officers, if you recall? -- which of the two did you tell? Do you remember if you told Lange or Phillips or who did you tell?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe I told both of them.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell them he was in Chicago? You found out from Cathy Randa where he was? You then told them where he was?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you at some point become aware that one of the detectives, Phillips or one of them placed a call to your father?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe--I believe that Cathy had called--said that she can get in touch with my father and my father called the house.

Return 0605 *
MS. CLARK: All right. So does this reflect that that phone call was made from the main house, the phone in the main residence on June the 13th at 6:05 A.M. to the phone number listed for your father's room in Chicago on June the 13th?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh, yes. {5 minute}
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You think he {OJ Simpson} called the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
=== Vannatter Knows where simpson is === Q WHAT TIME DID YOU CONFIRM THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS IN CHICAGO?
Vannatter: OH, I WAS TOLD THAT BY KATO AND THEN I WAS LATER TOLD THAT BY MY PARTNER.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU CONFIRM IT?
Vannatter: SHORTLY AFTER SIX O'CLOCK THAT MORNING.

Kelly: When was the first time you spoke to her?
Simpson: When the police called me.
Kelly: And to the best of-your knowledge did she just get on the phone after you had spoke to the police?
Simpson: Yes.
Kelly: Do you recall the next time you spoke to her after that? Do you know where she was when you spoke to her the next time?
Simpson: You know, it was a lot of calls going back and forth or at least me calling, trying to get various people. I may have talked to her again before she left the house. I know I talked to her probably after the kids were picked up. I just don't know when. I just don't know when.
Kelly: Did you have any discussion with who you might have been with between 9:30 and 10:45 the night before? Did you have any discussion with her that morning who you might have spoken to between 9:30 and 10:45 p.m. the night before? Did you have any discussions with her at all where you might have been between 9:30 and 10:45 p.m. the night before?
Simpson: Home. I don't know {what I told her}. I don't know. I think we may have talked about what time she got home. We may have talked about that. I'm not sure. No, I don't have a clear recollection of it, but I might have asked her what time did she get home last night.

Told to police before 7:00 AM
Kelly: Well, prior to that statement had you-- and I am talking when you were in the office with Lange and Vannatter, had you ever told any police officers who you were or were not with between 9:30 and 10:45 p.m. the night before?
Simpson: I may have. One of my calls to LA. that morning was to--the LAPD either answered the phone at my house or Nicole's house, and I'm not sure; it may have been Lange, because one of them said, "It's very important. When did you leave last night and what did you do before you left last night or words to that effect. But somebody with LAPD said to me "It's very important," because I didn't know these officers at the time, "what time did you leave last night" and I just can't recall if he asked more questions than that. It was before I left Chicago, so it would have been Chicago time before 9:00 o'clock, I guess. LA. time before 7:00 o'clock.
{Simpson made call ?Lange? answered}
Whenever an officer asked me what time I left, I think he may have asked me, "Where were you before you left," and I told him "Home." I know there was a conversation -- somebody was asking me on the phone where I was the night before and I pretty much told him that.
Kelly: Okay. But you specifically remember it was a phone call you initiated {from your hotel room}?
Simpson: I believe so, yes.

0607
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So after he made this statement and after the phone had beenpassed to you by the detective and you spoke with your dad and you described how he was, what then happened after that, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: Oh, at that point I had asked if Nicole's mother knew and he said, "No, do you know how to get in touch with her?"
MR. COCHRAN: When you said you asked that, who did you ask that of?
MS. SIMPSON: To Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. After you brought it up, you then got Miss Judy Brown on the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I called Judy and I said, "Judy, I have some really bad news for you" and, umm, I attempted to tell her and I started crying and I gave the phone over to Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you then handed the phone back to the detective and did you hear his conversation to Miss Judy Brown?
=== Kaelin verifies ===

Return to

Petrocelli: Tell me what you can recall from that call.
Simpson: They asked who I was. He -- I don't know if he prefaced it. He said my kids were all right.
"First let me tell you your kids are all right." And I think he said he had bad news for me, or words to that effect, and he said "Your wife was murdered" -- may have said "killed" -- "last night" or "Your wife was killed." He may not have said "last night." But 'Your wife was murdered" or "Your wife was killed"- "had been killed."
And I got up, sat up, and I tried to make sense of it, and I asked him what--you know, essentially what did he mean. I didn't get it. It was just hard to digest.
And he started telling me that there was nothing he could tell me. "We're trying to find out," and he gave me a whole line of they didn't know any thing. "We're trying to find out, OJ." And he kept assuring me that my kids were okay, my kids were fine. I believe he said they were at the police station. And I might have asked him why.
And then he asked me about, could I come back to L.A., I believe, and essentially it was that.
{Phillips} said something to me about the press didn't know. I think {Phillips} said --and I think I asked if the Browns knew and he said that they hadn't been told, or a conversation sorta like that, but they hadn't told anybody yet, and I--you know, he may have given me a phone number. I think he gave me a phone number or two. And that's all I can recall.

Simpson: I started getting dressed. I may have called Cathy immediately to get me a flight out, first flight she can get out of Chicago, and I just-- I started getting dressed, and I started calling airlines myself, too.
I think she thought something had happened. I think-- I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure she knew something had happened, but I don't recall.
No, I didn't {tell Cathy what the officer had told me}. He told me not to say anything. He said, "The press doesn't know. We haven't told anybody," they hadn't told the Browns, and I didn't want to tell her immediately, no.
Petrocelli: What did Randa say to you to lead you to believe that she knew?
Simpson: She asked what was going on, and I think they had just called her, someone had just called her, so she was -- you know, at that time of the morning, I guess she was concerned, for me to call her that early.
{Arnelle & Police had called Cathy.}
{She said} Nothing {about the murder}. I was in a rush. I just said, "Get me a number, Cathy. I can't talk to you. Get me the first flight out of here," and she was trying to ask me what was wrong, what was wrong, and I told her I couldn't tell her. I was-- I don't know. I may have been crying.

The very first phone call that {Simpson} had that morning was with the officer? Then Exibit 72: The first number at the top is Cathy Randa's.
Petrocelli: And what -- you got off the phone, and then what did you do?
Simpson: I started trying to get dressed, and I started going back and forth to the phone. I started myself trying to see if I can get some numbers of airlines, I believe.
Petrocelli: You had already told Randa to get the first flight out for you. Right?
Simpson: Yes. I said, "See if you can get a flight out for me right away."
Petrocelli: But even though you told her that, you decided to do it yourself?
Simpson: Yeah, at the same time. I just wanted to get out of Chicago, and I'm glad I did because the flight she eventually got me was a lot-- was later than the one I ended up getting myself.
Petrocelli: So you called a couple of airlines to get flights out. Right?
Simpson: I talked to a lot of people. It may have been some Hertz people I talked to. It may have been some airline people I talked to. I don't even know if they were travel agents. I was just on the phone, back and forth on the phone to-- I would get one person and say it was an emergency, and then they would -- maybe one of the airlines checked the other airlines. I don't recall.
Petrocelli: When you made the calls to the airlines, did you succeed in getting an early flight? And then did you call Cathy back?
Simpson: I don't think I had got the flight by the time I talked to Cathy again.

-the fourth call on Exhibit 72 is call back to Randa.
Call five {708#} might be Merrill.
### call to Nicole's house -- he spoke to police officer.
Petrocelli: Did you ask what had happened to Nicole?
Simpson: Everyone that I spoke to, I asked that, and they all kept saying they didn't know, they were investigating, and there was nothing they could tell me.
One of these numbers is to the West LA. Police Department.
police phone number

Petrocelli: The police department number?
Simpson: The number that they had given me. I thought they had given me a cell number or something.
Petrocelli: The first time you talked?
Simpson: Yeah, I believe he gave me a cell number or something.
It's Number for West LA Station.

Return 0610 First Simpson call ends.

Return 0615
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, then the detective told me that I needed to go pick up Justin and Sydney, that they were at the police station. Umm, I told the detective that, umm, I couldn't go do this by myself, that I had to call somebody to help me.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, how were you dressed when you were in the kitchen area? Who were you attired at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: I had on pajamas.

Return 0615 Fuhrman goes to rear:
MR. BAILEY: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT, IF YOU RECALL, WHEN YOU EXITED THE HOUSE AND WENT DOWN THAT SOUTH PATHWAY?
Fuhrman: 6:00, 6:10, 6:15.
MR. BAILEY: YOU ARE ESTIMATING FOR US?
Fuhrman: YES.
MR. BAILEY: WHEN DID YOU FIND THE GLOVE?
Fuhrman: THE GLOVE ON ROCKINGHAM? AT APPROXIMATELY SOMETIME BETWEEN 6:05, 6:10, 6:15.
***** He exited and found glove with same answer? *****

Return 0617 === seek TIME CHECK Simpson cellphone ===
MR. COCHRAN: Did you remain in the kitchen after they had indicated you should pick up your brother and sister?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MS. SIMPSON: I went to go into my room and the phone rang then.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you answer the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And who was it?
MS. SIMPSON: My father.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Your father called back?
MS. SIMPSON: He was very upset. He was crying. He was saying, "Arnelle, I don't understand."
Sorry. He was saying--he was very upset, emotional.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you ever at any time in your then 25 years heard your father sound like that?
This conversation, where did you take that phone? Where did you take that--have that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: I had the conversation in the TV room.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, how long did this conversation last, this second conversation with your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: It was five to ten minutes.
{5-10 minutes}
SIMPSON: That, but my daughter was in sort of a bad way, my older daughter was in sort of a bad way, so I was a little concerned about her, too. Not a little. Just as much as concerned about her. I was pretty concerned about my older daughter, because when I spoke to her, she was in a bad way.
I think they said they were going to get them. I said, "Go get them immediately," and it may have been mentioned that they were going to take them to Laguna. I'm not really sure if that was mentioned in that particular conversation.

BREWER: Okay. What I am trying to focus on, Mr. Simpson, is after you were told that Nicole had been killed, was there a period of time where you just had to go through some emotional response, where you weren't making phone calls or using the restroom or brushing your teeth, where you were sitting on the bed or walking around trying to deal with this news emotionally?
SIMPSON: The whole time I was, even when I was sitting and walking and even fell back on the bed a few times, I was doing -- during the whole period of time I was trying to deal with it emotionally. There's no -- you don't turn on your emotions and turn your emotions off. The entire time I was trying to deal with it emotionally. No matter what I was doing, I was trying to deal with it emotionally.
BREWER: Was there a period of time where you were trying to deal with it emotionally before you affirmatively started getting ready to leave?
SIMPSON: The whole time from the time I heard it I began to try to deal with it emotionally.
BREWER: And then you've described a process where you were going back and forth between the restroom and the phone making phone calls trying to make travel arrangements, and it's at some point there that you broke the glass. Right?
SIMPSON: Yes.
BREWER: And you indicated to Detective Vannatter and Lange that you broke the glass as you were going bonkers a little bit. And were you indicating to them that upon hearing the news you were angry and, as a result of that anger, broke the glass?
SIMPSON: I don't know what I was indicating to them. I just broke the glass while I was doing the things that I was doing, trying to get out of there and trying to get back home.
BREWER: Well let's not talk about possibilities. Let's talk about what you recall. Because you recall telling the detectives that you were bonkers when this glass broke. Do you have a specific recollection and -- strike that. You've also indicated that by the term "bonkers" you're referencing a state of mind where you're out of control.
SIMPSON: Sort of. When I say "out of control," I mean, I wasn't jumping out of any window or anything, but, yes, I was charged.
BREWER: And the reason why you were charged is you had just learned this awful news about Nicole. And it was in that context that this glass was broken. When you told the detectives that you broke the glass as you were going bonkers, was that inaccurate?
SIMPSON: I need to read that because I don't think I said, "I was going bonkers." I said, "I kinda went kind bonkers for a little bit," and I don't know if I said, "as I was going bonkers I broke the glass." I don't know if that was what I said. I just know during this period of time I would reach the point where it was just like just trying to digest it all was a little much. When it actually broke, I don't know what my state of mind--I was agitated from the time I heard the call to the time I left, and during the course of getting on and off the telephone, trying to get packed, the glass broke. I was trying to get my stuff out of the bathroom. I either slammed the glass down or knocked it over. I don't know exactly what it was. But I know that was my state of mind at the time, that I was like--I was like a little bonkers, and the glass broke during the course of that, and that's the best I can answer it no matter how many different ways you talk about this. I broke a glass. I know that's a fact. It's possible how it happened is when I was slamming things around or trying to pack things. I was a little aggressive.
BREWER: Well, when you say, "I know I was back and forth to the phone," what I am asking you for today is a specific recollection, whether you have one or not, of going to the phone after you began the process of cleaning up the glass that you've just described for us.
SIMPSON: Well, I know I was back and forth to the phone, and I know that--that I cut--I believe it was in the midst of all of that I cut my hand, so... I know I was back and forth to the phone before and I would believe after. Yes. Yes. So I can't tell you what phone call--I was coming in or going out or if I was on the phone at the time it happened, but I do know I was back and forth before and after it happened. I know I was back and forth to the phone, and I know during the midst of doing all that I cut my hand. At what point that happened--I wasn't thinking about at what point that was happening. I was trying to get out of Chicago and I was trying to get to L.A. My recollection is during the course of trying to get out of Chicago, I was on and off the telephone. In the midst of all that I cut my hand at some point, and I was still back and forth trying to get out of Chicago, trying to get a flight out, trying to get someone to take me to the airport, and in the midst of all that I cut my hand. That is my recollection.

Return 0618
Vannatter shown Glove:
Q WHAT TIME, IF YOU RECALL, WAS IT THAT YOU FIRST SAW THE GLOVE AT ROCKINGHAM?
Vannatter: I BELIEVE IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 6:15 TO 6:30.
***** Viewing Glove *****
Return 0630
=== Like her father, Arnelle starts gathering emotional/practical support ===
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you next go?
MS. SIMPSON: I went into my room to change and I made some phone calls.
MR. COCHRAN: And who did you call at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: I called A.C., Al Cowlings. I called my mother. I called my brother and I called a friend.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. These calls you all made from your room; is that correct?
MR. COCHRAN: That was your phone?
Depo #2
KELLY: On the morning of June 13th prior to Mr. Simpson arriving back from Chicago -- Did you have occasion to go by Rockingham?
COWLINGS: I was called to Rockingham. {By} Arnelle.
It was early in the morning. I don't know exactly what time. She woke me up. She was � I could tell that she was upset about something. I thought she was ill first, and I said, "Baby, what's wrong?" Because I had taken her to the hospital because she has a stomach problem. She has called me before; I would come over and take her to the hospital because she has severe pains and cramps that she can't straighten up. So I thought � I said, "What's wrong? Tell me, Arnelle, tell me," and she got her composure, and she said Nicole was dead.
I said, "What?" And she said, "Nicole is dead." And I said, "What happened?" She says, "I don't know. The police are here." She says, "Would you come over?"
{I left immediately to go to Rockingham.}
When I got there, there was a patrol car. The officer got out when I got out of my car, and I said, "I was called to the house," and he just like waved me on, and I walked into the house and there were people inside.
{there was one police officer} Outside of the house. When I got inside the house, there was more officers inside.
All I know, when I got out, I looked to my right, I think, he was walking towards me, and I said, "I was called to the house," and he just kinda like waved me on. He was a � dressed in regular police uniform, blue. A uniformed policeman, yes. {seated in} It was a black-and-white.
-- I don't know if he was black and I don't know if he was white. I was more concentrating on what was going on, what was going on in the house.
I don't know if I used � I don't know if I came � I don't know if I used my key to open the front door or the front door was already cracked, but I came through the front door. I turned into the kitchen because I heard voices.
I walked into the kitchen. I introduced myself. I think Arnelle was there �- I introduced myself to � I don't know which one was first, I don't know if Vannatter or Lange or Fuhrman, but I introduced myself to them. They asked me my name, and I gave it to them, and I think they gave me their cards. And I think they asked me, did I know where O.J. was, and I said, "I think he's out of town."
Then I asked � I don't think I asked. They were trying to get in touch with Nicole's parents at that time, and I think � I think one of the officers �he was receded on the top; he had dark hair on the side, and he informed them that Nicole was dead.
KELLY: Were you there when the officer called the Browns?
COWLINGS: Yes, I was.
I think they had the number from Arnelle.
They didn't ask me for the number.
I don't know if Arnelle dialed the number. I don't know if she speed dialed it. I really couldn't tell you.
KELLY: Were you able to hear what the officer said on the phone?
COWLINGS: He said � I don't know. He said Nicole was dead. I don't know if he said she was murdered or not. I gasped. I threw my hand over my mouth. I grabbed Arnelle, and we embraced each other. This is very difficult thing for me.
I asked about the kids, where were the kids, and they said they took them out the back. They took them out of the back of the house because the front � or it was too much commotion out in front.
When I asked where the kids were �� he said the kids were fine; they were at the police station. "We took them out the back way so they wouldn't see the commotion in the front."
I don't know if Vannatter said it to me. I don't know if the officer who was on the phone said it to me. I said, "Can I go get the kids?" And they said yes, and they said, "Don't go down Bundy because we got it blocked off."
So Arnelle and I got in the car and drove to the station on Purdue to pick up the kids.
You could take Bundy, but I went around � I went San Vicente to Federal and took Federal down to Santa Monica Boulevard, cut � turned left and went over to Purdue to the Westside station on the � where the Westside police station is.
KELLY: When you first entered the house, once again � I'm sorry � do you recall which police officer asked you where Simpson was?
COWLINGS: It could have been Vannatter, I think. I couldn't be, you know, clear on that.
KELLY: Do you have a specific recollection of Detective Lange being there at that time?
COWLINGS: He could have been there. It was about four gentlemen in the kitchen when I arrived.
KELLY: You know who Detective Fuhrman is, do you not?
COWLINGS: Yes, I do. We shook hands.
KELLY: And was he in the kitchen �
COWLINGS: Yes.
KELLY: Okay. Was he present when you were asked where Simpson was?
COWLINGS: I think I was asked in the hallway. Well, I think I stepped back out. I think Arnelle and I kind of like went back out into the hallway, and I think she said, "I'm going to call my mother," and she went to her room.
And I think one of the officers � it could have been Vannatter � asked me, "Do you know where O.J. is?"
And I said, "I think he's out of town."
Excuse me. I think I said, "You could call Cathy, his assistant. She would know where O.J. is."
I don't know if Arnelle had already given them information on Cathy. They didn't ask me for her number.
KELLY: Okay. When you were in the car with Arnelle driving over to Nicole's condo � I mean � I'm sorry � the police station, did you have any conversation with Arnelle?
COWLINGS: I couldn't � it was conversation. I think we were really confused. We didn't know at that time any of the � we didn't know anything, just the fact that she was dead, and � I don't know. I really don't know. Like I said, when the officer called the Browns, I don't know if he said she was � Nicole had been murdered or Nicole is dead. I really don't know. I know he told them something. Arnelle was very emotional, and we kinda got ourselves together because we didn't want the kids to see � you know, to see us, because before we gathered they knew nothing.
We got there and I walked in and introduced myself to the officers, and I said, "I'm here to pick up Sydney and Nicole" � I mean "Sydney and Justy," and they came out, you know, jumping up, embracing Arnelle and I, and they were showing us things that the officer had gave them. So I thanked the officers for everything, and I took them back up to the house.

KELLY: Okay. When you were still at Rockingham the first time, other than that one police officer asking you if you knew where Simpson was, did they ask you any other questions?
COWLINGS: I can't put the questions if I was there the first time or after I came back. I was asked where he was � I know that for a fact � when I first got there. I don't know if I was asked where were the Bronco keys the first time or after I got back. They asked me when was the last time I had seen O.J. I said I hadn't seen him in about a week or so, maybe longer. We were supposed to meet up in New York. I was back East, and I was leaving New York on a Wednesday. I talked to him on Tuesday. He was coming into New York on a Wednesday, and he was trying to talk me into staying over, and I said, "No, I have to get back. I wish you could come out earlier."
And he wanted me to stay an extra day in New York. I was already in New York.
That I think we left it off where he said he was coming back � we left it off how O.J. � I mean, in our conversation that Wednesday, that he'd be back because he had to be somewhere for Sydney. So I said, "Well, when you come back, let's get together either Friday or Saturday night."
And he said, "Okay, I'll call you," but I never heard from him.
..., I thought he was out of town.
He could have said to me on that conversation on Wednesday that he was leaving again; he had to fly back in, and I don't know if on that Sunday day or the weekend, but he said he had to get back; then he had to leave out again on some type of trip. He never said � He just said he had to leave again.

KELLY: Did any detective at any time when you were at Rockingham either time that morning ask you if you knew what time Simpson had left his house the previous night?
COWLINGS: They could have asked me. I don't remember.
If anything, I told them the best person to talk to was Cathy.

COWLINGS: Vannatter, Fuhrman, I know for a fact, because Vannatter and I eventually � that's who I did all my talking to. Fuhrman I knew for a fact was there.
The officer � he wasn't � it wasn't Lange that informed me � it wasn't Lange that told me that � to go down � I mean, how to go to the police station, not to go down Bundy. This one � I don't know � he was thin. I forget his name. He wasn't one � I never saw him again in any of the � {criminal trial} He probably was called, but I never saw any more of him during the news, anything like that. It was always Vannatter and Lange. I take that back. He was Fuhrman's partner.

KELLY: Okay. Did you ever see Kato Kaelin ��the first time you arrived?
COWLINGS: Kato � I'm trying to put it in a frame. I don't know when I first got there I saw Kato or after I got back from the police station, but Kato and I did see each other, and he was � he looked sad, and he said to me, "A.C., I heard some." � we were in the family room, the big room where the TVs and stuff is � That's what I'm trying � I mean, I don't know if it was before I left to go pick up the kids or after I got back.
When I first arrived, I don't remember seeing him. It could have been later on, a few minutes later that I saw him, or it could have been after I got back.
He said to me, "A.C., I heard some noises last night."
And I said, "Did you tell the officers?" And he said, "Yeah." And I said, "Okay. That's good."
He just said noises. I don't know if he told me � I really don't know. I wouldn't be � I wouldn't � I don't know exactly what noises, but he told me he heard some noises heard some noises or heard whatever. I don't know exactly.
It was outside of � outside of his apartment on the back side.

KELLY: Okay. You also indicated earlier that the topic of Bronco keys came up at some point when you were at Rockingham that morning.
COWLINGS: Yes, sir. One of the officers � I don't know which one; I don't know if they asked me, was that O.J.'s Bronco or was that his car, but I remember I was asked about the Bronco keys.
KELLY: Okay. Did you see the Bronco when you pulled up that morning?
COWLINGS: I don't remember, sir �� if it was there or not.
I came up Rockingham off of Sunset, and when I got to Ashford, I turned right.
Onto Ashford off of Rockingham. I came off of Sunset from where I live in Santa Monica � no. I'm sorry. From the Palisades I come straight down Sunset, cross Mandeville Canyon, and the next left you can make is Rockingham.
And I came up Rockingham, and when I got to Ashford, I turned right. That's the corner of Rockingham and Ashford. That's where the house sits. {Parked on Ashford} I think I was facing east on the north side of the street.
I don't remember how long I was there. It was � like I said, I don't know if that was the time they asked me about the Bronco keys or after I got back. I think after � Vannatter � after we were all introduced, I think I � after the announcement I heard about Nicole's � the officer announcing Nicole's death to the Browns, I somehow worked my way to the family room, what you call it, and I think I called Wayne. I know I called Wayne.

KELLY: Okay. Let me ask you: From the first time you left Rockingham to go to the police station until the time you got back to Rockingham, could you tell me approximately how much time elapsed?
COWLINGS: Probably 20 minutes, maybe a little � for the whole trip.

COWLINGS: It was light. When Nicole � when Arnelle called me, it was light outside, like a hazy � you know, like a low cloud type of � on the Westside that's the way it's like in the morning. So it could have been 6:00, 6:30, something like that, maybe a quarter to 7:00.
I would put it somewhere around in there somewhere. I couldn't pinpoint a � God, I was flying. I was there in minutes. It's straight down Sunset from where � I lived on the corner of Sunset and Chautauqua, I think.
ROCKINGHAM to BUNDY:
THE WITNESS: I couldn't tell you exactly how long it would take. It's very short. If you left O.J.'s, you shoot down Gretna Green to San Vicente, hit Bundy. It all depends if you can catch the light or not right there at Montana and � well, if you came down Gretna Green there's no lights till you get to San Vicente, but when you get to Bundy and Vicente, you could turn right on the light, and there's a light at Montana and Bundy.

COWLINGS: Just that I think they asked me, was that his Bronco, and I said yes, or they may have already known that that was his Bronco and they could have asked me, "Do you know where the keys are?"
I said, "Normally they stay in the kitchen area somewhere, either in a cup or over by the" � there's a utility table next to the door that leads to the laundry room and an extra maid � the maid's room, and normally that's where those keys are kept there, because we have all used that car at one time or another. {Yes, you looked yourself in each of those locations.}
It was like, you know, even before � I used to use it before I had my Bronco, and I think I used it a few weeks before then because I put my Bronco in the shop to be serviced.

KELLY: By the way, were you recall upset when you were at Rockingham that first time?
COWLINGS: I was upset because � I mean, I was confused because every � you know, all I knew, I was told that Nicole was dead, and it was just very confusing, and then I probably showed some emotion when I heard them tell Lou that Nicole was dead.
KELLY: Okay. And when you came back the second time, is that when you � Well, could you tell me everything you discussed with Phillips, first of all?
COWLINGS: Well, Phillips was just explaining to me how, you know, not to travel down Bundy to get to the station, and he ensured me that the kids didn't see anything because they were still asleep when they got there, or whoever took them out, and they have no knowledge of what happened. And so he was very nice.
KELLY: Did you have any discussion with the kids at all when you brought � on your way back to Rockingham?
COWLINGS: More or less just kidding with them, trying to keep them � you know, they wasn't puzzled or asking questions. They was just � whatever Justin � whatever they gave Justin, he was still playing with, and I think they had some � I don't know if they had chips or some cookies or whatever, but they, you know, they seemed to be normal.
I think I brought the kids in through the door off the kitchen or through the front door. What I did, I put on the TV for them. Sydney, like I say, she � I could have came through that door or I could have came through the front door.
KELLY: Do you recall whether you were prevented in any way from coming through the front door? Do you recall seeing any officer near the front door when you approached it the second time? Do you recall seeing any cards or markers of any sort in the front courtyard immediately before the front door? Do you recall seeing any markers in the driveway when you came back the second time? Do you recall seeing any markers of any sort in the front foyer when you arrived there the second time? Did any detective there ever tell you to watch your step for any reason? Did he ever caution you not to go in any particular areas of the house at that time? Did any of them ever caution you not to go in any particular area outside the house?
COWLINGS: No.
KELLY: Now, you were telling me what you did once you had arrived back at Rockingham that time.
COWLINGS: Once I got back, Arnelle and I put the kids in the kitchen, and there's a little section over there where there's a TV and all the video games and tapes and stuff. They was watching cartoons, and I closed off � I closed the doors off to the kitchen, and I took the lock off the front door and left it open so the officers could go in and out without disturbing the kids.
No {to unlock it}. You push the little center piece in the inside of the door so you could turn the door handle.
I think I told Vannatter that I'd leave the door open, and then {Vannatter} and I were talking � We were talking outside in the hallway. The front door's wide open and � No{not ajar}. I had it completely open.
Yes, so they could come in and out without disturbing the kids.
What did VANNATTER testify to?

Yeah, Vannatter and I were in the hallway and � Then all of a sudden we heard Fuhrman say, "I want this looked at," and we � Just then Vannatter and I both looked towards the door. Fuhrman was standing there. Then when I looked back at Vannatter, Vannatter says, "We are going to do a search of the house, and all of you are going to have to leave."
KELLY: Where was Fuhrman standing when he said this?
COWLINGS: He was halfway � probably he was more outside of the front door than inside. He was pointing down to some area right about the front of the door.
After we were interrupted, when we both heard that and when I looked back at Vannatter, Vannatter said, "We going to" � "I have to do a house search, and everyone is going to have to leave."
{Vannatter} and I were right in front of each other. If you facing that kitchen door that I had closed, we were to the left of it. Could have been eight feet, ten feet, something like that {from the front door}. � Vannatter's back was to the wall.
KELLY: Could you tell me what direction :Fuhrman} was pointing in as he pointed?
COWLINGS: As he was facing � it seemed to me as he was facing the door, he was in the doorway. I think he was pointing down to his right, I think. I'm not sure. But I know he had to be in that area somewhere.
KELLY: Okay. After Vannatter made that initial statement to you about having to do a search of the house, what did you do next?
COWLINGS: I think Arnelle called Denise or � 'cause first � when Vannatter said that, I was trying to get my thoughts together to where to take the kids, either to my place or I was even thinking of maybe taking them over to Wayne's or somewhere, you know, close, and I think maybe � or was it...I don't know if Arnelle was talking to Denise or if I was talking to Denise. Denise say, "Why don't you bring them here," and I said, "Okay," or I was told I could bring them to the Browns. I don't know exactly.

KELLY: Okay. Was he pointing to an area, if you could tell, outside the front door or inside the front door?
COWLINGS: I would think it was outside the front door.

KELLY: Okay. Was Mr. Kaelin still on the premises when you left with the kids?
COWLINGS:I remember seeing Kato getting into the black-and-white.
I saw him � I didn't see him on the grounds. When I got to the gate, I looked to my right and Kato was getting in the back seat of a black-and-white.
I walked Arnelle � I got the kids in my car, walked Arnelle over to a friend who came by to pick her up; I embraced her and I told her, you know, to give me a call � no. I asked for his number so I could, you know, be in touch.
Q: Well, I think you had indicated before you made a call to Arnelle. A: I don't know if that was later on in the day or � you know, I don't know if it was � oh, I take that back. I did make � I called back to Rockingham to let them know that I had arrived, because they wanted me to call back to the house. Q: Okay. And who did you speak to when you called back to Rockingham? A: I think it was Fuhrman. Q: Okay. Did you speak to anybody else that morning of June 13th other than that last phone call to Detective Fuhrman? Did you speak to anybody on the phone? I'm sorry. A: I think Vannatter got on the phone for a few seconds.
KELLY:
COWLINGS:

Return ?630
Petrocelli: Was this phone call to the Brown residence in which Denise answered the phone the first time that anyone had intimated to you that you were responsible for Nicole's death?
Simpson: Obviously, yes. If that's what she did. I mean, she was just screaming, and I just--and then the phone went dead.

Where did Simpson get band-aid
Simpson: I don't recall. It was either at the front desk or away, because a lot of people were trying to check out. I may have walked over a little bit or I may have done it at the front desk. I don't remember.

Petrocelli: Why would you call Kato Kaelin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered?
Simpson: Because he was at my home. He had talked about some noises the night before. He was at my home.

Petrocelli: What was your purpose in making all these phone calls from the airplane?
Simpson: Well, my purpose wasn't to make all those calls. It was just tough getting through because the plane kept --airplane's phone kept cutting out.

BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHER IN THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION? AND WAS IT DAYLIGHT BY THEN?
RISKE: I HAD TALKED TO HIM EARLIER, BUT HE HADN'T TAKEN ANY PICTURES OF THE FRONT WHILE I WAS THERE. THEN HE CAME -- IT WAS JUST STARTING TO GET DAYLIGHT, AND HE CAME AND HE TOOK A COUPLE PICTURES.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM TAKING PICTURES IN THAT FRONT AREA?
Riske: I SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. HE WAS SHOWING HIM THE GLOVE AND HE TOOK A PICTURE OF THE GLOVE. I BELIEVE {Fuhrman} LIFTED UP THE LEAVES AND THE PLANTS SO HE COULD SEE IT BETTER AND {Rokahr} TOOK A PICTURE. [PEOPLE'S 54] I BELIEVE THAT'S HIS LEFT HAND HOLDING THE LEAVES BACK AND HIS RIGHT HAND POINTING TO THE --
Q NOW, WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WERE RELIEVED FROM THIS CRIME SCENE?
RISKE: 7:15.
Q AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO THAT TIME THAT YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE, WHEN DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN APPEAR AND POINT THINGS OUT TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER?
RISKE: I WOULD SAY WITHIN 40 MINUTES. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. WITHIN AN HOUR.

KELLY: Okay. Could you tell me when you made your first phone call after leaving your room in the Plaza Hotel?
SIMPSON: I believe it was when I was down stairs looking or waiting for a cab and when waiting for the Hertz guy {Merrill} to arrive. Well, I spoke to him a number of times on the 13th. Yeah, a number of times.
KELLY: Before you left the Plaza?
SIMPSON: Before I left my room, yes. {AS for Kato} I don't know if I did call Kato before I left, but I wouldn't know how many times. I know I never got him.
KELLY: Okay. Do you know how many times, approximately, you called Cathy Randa before you arrived back in Los Angeles?
SIMPSON: No. I know I kept trying and kept getting disconnected or machines or stuff, but no.
KELLY: Did you ever have any conversations with her before you got back to Los Angeles?
SIMPSON: Yes, I believe so.
KELLY: Would it be fair to say you talked to her for approximately 20 minutes total?
SIMPSON: Could have been. It could have been. I don't know.
KELLY: Okay. And you made a number of phone calls to Skip Taft? Would it be fair to say that you spoke to him for approximately 20 minutes total before you got back to L.A.?
SIMPSON: You know, I don't know.
KELLY: Okay. Do you know any reason why you would have had two approximately five-minute phone calls with Jonah Wilson for any reason?
SIMPSON: If I talked to him for five minutes, it would have been Arnelle or seeing that he would take care of Arnelle, because Arnelle was in a bad way, but I don't recall having a five-minute phone call with Jonah, no.
KELLY: And therefore you recall none of the details of any conversation you had with her?
SIMPSON: I'm sure it was all about how she was feeling and how I was feeling and the kids. If we spoke, that would have been the topic.
KELLY: Okay. So you wouldn't have discussed anything about June 12th, 1994, the evening, would you?
SIMPSON: No.
KELLY: Okay. You wouldn't have discussed anything about what the police may have been doing at your house at Rockingham in those discussions either, would you?
SIMPSON: I don't think so, but if the police were there, I may have--I may have asked, but I don't think so.

KELLY: Do you recall making any calls to any friend of Nicole's between the time you left the Plaza Hotel in Chicago and you arrived back to Rockingham that afternoon?
SIMPSON: Yes. My daughter, A.C, Skip, Marcus Allen, the people I called.

KELLY: Could you tell me the subject matter of the conversations you had with Cathy Randa when you got her on the phone before getting back to Los Angeles?
SIMPSON: Getting back to L.A. And I may--we may have commiserated. We may have commiserated.
KELLY: Okay. Did you give any detective or anybody the Browns' phone number when you spoke to them?
KELLY: I may have. If they asked, I would have given it to them.

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MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at some point after you finished these conversations, you were dressed, what happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I came back inside the house and at that time A.C. was on his way in. A.C. spoke with two of the detectives and then the detectives told A.C. where the kids were and then him and I went to go pick up Sydney and Justin.
MR. COCHRAN: He did arrive and about what time was it that he arrived?
MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around 6:30, a quarter to 7:00.

Petrocelli: And you wanted to find out what was going on. Right? From Kato Kaelin. Right?
Simpson: From anybody that can tell me. But Kato Kaelin is at my home, and since the police wouldn't tell me anything and Arnelle tried to tell me whatever she knew, which was nothing, maybe Kato knew something that was going on.

BREWER: And when you were coming back from Chicago, you attempted to contact the Browns. And Denise answered the phone. And the first thing she did--one of the first things she said was to accuse you or suggest that you were somehow responsible for the murders. Is that true?
SIMPSON: Yeah. She was yelling, but that was the implication that I got, yes. Didn't surprise me for any other reason. It's just a surprise that she was talking to me the way she was, yelling at me the way she was. It surprised me, yes. She just was yelling, and then she hung up.

Return 0650
Clark: NOW, YOU I THINK TESTIFIED BEFORE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM TOGETHER; IS THAT RIGHT? AND IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO AND POINT TO THE EVIDENCE FOR THE PHOTOGRAPHER?
Riske: RIGHT.
THE COURT: {people's} 55 IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING AT THE HAT AND GLOVE.
***** Has Shoe been moved? ***** BY MR. COCHRAN: IN 59, DOES IT LOOK TO YOU LIKE THE TENNIS SHOE IS IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN IT WAS IN THE ONE WE JUST FINISHED LOOKING AT, 55?
Riske: IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THAT ANGLE.

Return to Return 0700
Q AND WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO BUNDY?
Fuhrman: I BELIEVE ABOUT 7:00 IN THE MORNING, MAYBE A LITTLE LATER.
Q THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED YOU YESTERDAY OF YOU POINTING TO THE ITEMS UNDERNEATH THAT BUSH, WHEN WAS THAT TAKEN, SIR?
Fuhrman: I BELIEVE THAT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 7:00 OR 7:15 THAT MORNING.

Return 0715
MS. CLARK: Okay. And then it would have been--if you left about 7:15, it would have been about 7:35 to 7:45 when you got back to the house; is that right?

Q SO AFTER THE POINT THAT YOU LEFT THE RESIDENCE AFTER COMPLETING YOUR NOTES, YOU NEVER WENT BACK IN AGAIN UNTIL LATER IN THE MORNING AFTER HAVING GONE TO ROCKINGHAM?
Fuhrman: YES, YOU ARE CORRECT. I DID RETURN AT ABOUT 7:00, 7:15, YES.

Return 0720
=== Theory of case ===

Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS IT -- IS IT -- DID -- IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE PERSON WHO DID THE KILLING WAS BLEEDING AT THE TIME HE CAME OR SHE CAME TO ROCKINGHAM?
Vannatter: YES.
Q I TAKE IT THEN THERE WAS A THOROUGH SEARCH FOR BLOOD FROM THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM -- FROM ROCKINGHAM TO THE AREA WHERE THE GLOVE WAS FOUND?
Vannatter: YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?
Vannatter: NONE. NONE THAT I AM AWARE OF.
Q I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH WAS DONE OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY FOR BLOOD; IS THAT CORRECT?
Vannatter: THE AREA WAS SEARCHED, YES.
Q FOR BLOOD?
Vannatter: WELL, SEARCHED FOR ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE.
Q WAS IT SEARCHED FOR BLOOD?
Vannatter: YES, SIR, THAT WOULD INCLUDE ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE.
Q HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?
Vannatter: NONE.
Q I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH OF THE FENCE WAS UNDERTAKEN IF SOMEBODY CLIMBED THE FENCE FOR BLOOD?
Vannatter: YES.
Q HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?
Vannatter: NONE.
Q I TAKE IT A THOROUGH SEARCH WAS DONE OF THE WALLS?
Vannatter: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.
Q HOW MUCH BLOOD WAS FOUND THERE?
Vannatter: NONE.

Scheck: WHAT WAS IT THAT WAS GOING ON IN YOUR MIND THAT LED YOU TO CALL FOR A SUPERVISOR BEFORE YOU EVEN ARRIVED AT THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE?
Fung: THERE ARE GUIDELINES WITHIN OUR LABORATORY THAT IF THERE IS A HIGH-PROFILE CASE OR A DOUBLE OR TRIPLE HOMICIDE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT SUPERVISORS BE NOTIFIED.

Scheck: DID YOU TELL DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU MIGHT NEED SOME EXTRA HELP BECAUSE YOU HAD THESE TWO CRIME SCENES?
Fung: I BELIEVE I ASKED HIM IF HE WANTED ANOTHER -- ANOTHER TEAM.

Fung: THE FIRST TIME WAS WITH MY -- WAS WITH THE WALK-THROUGH AND I DON'T RECALL WHETHER IT WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER WHO WERE BOTH AT THAT WALK-THROUGH AT THAT TIME OR JUST DETECTIVE VANNATTER OR JUST DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, BUT ONE OF THE DETECTIVES DID ESCORT ME BACK THERE ON MY WALK-THROUGH.
Scheck: THIS WAS ABOUT HOW LONG AFTER YOU GOT TO THE SCENE?
Fung: MAYBE FIVE MINUTES INTO THE SCENE.
THE NEXT TIME WAS WITH MISS MAZZOLA.
THE THIRD TIME I WENT WAS WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHER.
Scheck: AND THEN THE FOURTH TIME YOU WENT THERE, YOU WENT WITH WHOM?
Fung: TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION IT WAS MYSELF.
I WENT BY MYSELF AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WENT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ENCE.
Scheck: SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WERE WALKING DOWN THE SOUTH WALKWAY AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS WALKING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE?
Fung: THAT'S HOW I REMEMBER IT.

Return 0730
MS. CLARK: How long after you got back to Rockingham with the children were you asked to leave the premises?
MS. SIMPSON: Maybe 15 to 20 minutes later.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Which would have been sometime after 8 o'clock then? Okay. And so is it--is it correct then that they probably asked you to leave between 7:15 and 7:30?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.

Bailey: COULD YOU TELL THE COURT AND JURY WHEN THAT OCCURRED AND WHO WAS PRESENT?
Fuhrman: DENNIS FUNG I BELIEVE ARRIVED AT THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE 7:30, EIGHT O'CLOCK, SOMEWHERE AROUND THAT AREA. IT WAS THEN THAT I SHOWED HIM THE ITEMS ON THE BRONCO.

Return Unknown time
Q YOU DID WALK DOWN TO THE LITTLE GARAGE THAT IS THE HOME KNOW KNOWN TO BE OCCUPIED BY MISS LOPEZ?
A YES. I WENT DOWN ALONG THE CHAINLINK FENCE, ALONG THE WHOLE SOUTH BORDER OF THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE AND THAT RESIDENCE TO THEIR NORTH BORDER, WHICH WOULD BE THE SAME PROPERTY LINE. I WALKED TO THE BACKYARD. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING OR ANY EXPOSED AREAS. AND I WALKED BACK TOWARDS THE CYCLONE FENCE BY THE BUILDING.
Q WHEN WAS THIS?
A AFTER I RETURNED FROM BUNDY.
Q THIS IS IN DAYLIGHT?
A YES. Q BUT DID YOU EVER DO THAT PRIOR TO RUNNING THE DETECTIVES DOWN THE PATH TO LOOK AT THE GLOVE?
A NO.

Rosa Lopez meets Fuhrman
On the 13th, ROSA MARIA LOPEZ
THE WITNESS: SOMEBODY RANG THE DOORBELL. AND HE SAID, "I AM LOS ANGELES POLICE."
"I AM A POLICEMAN FROM LOS ANGELES."
THEN I OPENED THE DOOR. {I saw} A MALE. HE TOLD ME, "I'M DETECTIVE MIKE FUHRMAN."
MR. DARDEN: JUDGE, IF YOU KNEW WHAT I KNEW, YOU WOULD JUST WANT TO GO ALL NIGHT ON THIS.

THE COURT: MRS. LOPEZ, WHEN THIS POLICE OFFICER IDENTIFIED HIMSELF TO YOU, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT NAME HE GAVE YOU?
THE WITNESS: MARK FRAMEMAN. HE TOLD ME MARK FRAMEMAN.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Lopez: HE IDENTIFIED WITH A SMALL PLAQUE. WITH A THING -- HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF WITH SOMETHING IN HIS HAND.
IT WAS LIKE A LITTLE -- LIKE WHEN ONE HAS A DRIVER'S LICENSE, LIKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WELL, BECAUSE I CAN SEE -- I CAN SEE FINE OUTSIDE, BUT HE COULD NOT SEE ME WELL INSIDE.
BECAUSE IT'S A METAL DOOR.
HE TOLD ME, "LADY OR WOMAN, I DON'T SEE YOUR FACE."
I SAID, "EXCUSE ME. I WILL OPEN THE DOOR FOR YOU RIGHT NOW."
{Then} HE ASKED ME IF I WAS THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE. I SAID NO. I SAID, "I'M THE HOUSEKEEPER." AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS YOUR NAME?" I SAID ROSA LOPEZ.
{Then} HE ASKED ME FOR PERMISSION TO GO TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE.
{Then he went back there} HE WAS WITH ANOTHER PERSON. A MALE. WELL, THEY WENT TO THE BACK AND I DIDN'T FOLLOW THEM.
THE WITNESS: THE FIRST MAN WHO KNOCKED ON MY DOOR CAME BACK.
HE SAID, "THANK YOU VERY MUCH," AND AT THAT TIME, I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID TO ME, "TELL THE GARDENERS THAT IF ANYTHING STRANGE THAT THEY FIND IN THE YARD OR -- NOT TO TOUCH, CALL THE POLICE" (IN ENGLISH).
AFTER THAT, BECAUSE I HAD SEEN SO MANY POLICE OFFICERS AND SO MANY CAMERAS AND SO MANY THINGS, I ASKED, "WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT'S HAPPENING?" AND HE SAID, "SOMETHING HORRIBLE HAS HAPPENED ON THE OTHER SIDE." AND I ASKED HIM, "IS MR. SIMPSON DEAD OR WOUNDED," AND HE SAID NO.
AND THEN I SAID -- AND THEN HE SAID, "WHY?" "BECAUSE LAST NIGHT, VERY LATE, I HEARD VOICES. I HEARD MEN THAT WERE TALKING IN THE BACK OF THE YARD."
AND HE ASKED ME IF I HAD HEARD A WOMAN SCREAMING OR SCREAMS OF A WOMAN AND VOICES, WOMEN VOICES.
I SAY -- I SAID NO, THEY WERE MEN. AND HE ASKED ME IF IT WAS MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE.
I SAID NO, I DON'T KNOW.
AND AFTER THAT, HE TOLD ME, "WE ARE GOING TO SEND THE POLICE SO THAT YOU CAN GIVE TESTIMONY TO THE POLICE."
COCHRAN: AND AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT, DID ANY POLICE OFFICER FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT EVER COME OUT TO INTERVIEW YOU AFTER THAT?
Lopez: I'M STILL WAITING FOR THEM TELL HIM.
COCHRAN: NOW, THIS INTERVIEW WITH THIS DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, WHAT TIME OF MORNING WAS THAT, IF YOU RECALL?
Lopez: ABOUT 8:30.

Rosa's Friend SYLVIA GUERRA
COCHRAN: NOW, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION ON MONDAY, JUNE 13TH TO GO OUT TO ROCKINGHAM AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE ANY VEHICLES PARKED OUT THERE AT THE CURB ON ROCKINGHAM NEAR MR. SIMPSON'S HOME?
Lopez: THERE WERE MANY CARS PARKED THERE, YES.
COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE THE BRONCO AT ANY TIME THAT DAY?
Lopez: IT WAS STILL PARKED RIGHT THERE.
Return to Rosa Lopez

Reichardt learns of Nicole's death

Reichardt - manuscript notes:"6-13 Office see patients. Busy day. 10:00 Paul Resnick called about Nic killed.
"We talked if Faye was safe. If it was a drug thing. Both felt it was possible. Discussed if we should have her go to his ranch in Idaho. But only people knew where she was, so she was safe. Called Albert at Exodus. Asked him how to handle it. They were going to talk to her and to stay available. Went to see her that night. Slept with gun by my side. She stayed two weeks inpatient then came out. Coexisted only she had no place to go.
At the bottom it says, "Threatening phone calls in December. Wrote my attorney and asked her {Faye} to never call again."
PETROCELLI: Now, on the second side of that page, on the back side of it, could you read starting in the middle of the page.
REICHARDT: Yes. "Some people new cars, houses, it's their new job pays well. They want to continue it. For example, Faye, Denise. Faye on Geraldo talking about O.J.'s next moves. Kim Goldman into deposition. She is not a plaintiff no reason to be there."
"Media screw ups � change of info continues post verdict. Three jurors upset. How one shows that they now would give different verdict. On Larry King they complained it's a lie."
"Good about case. It brought some issues forward. Physical abuse, some race problems, some rogue cops, DA can be challenged, truth persists."
"Questions, 1, about abuse. I condone not abnormal violence, mental, emotional, or physical. O.J. and Nicole not only people getting physical -- especially" -- I can't read my own handwriting there, the last word. "Faye described abuse situation's not true. I have total different view."
"2, O.J. making money. You don't want him to make money, only if you think he is guilty," which is ignorant, I think. The people that screamed loudest are the ones that made the most money on it."
"3, children." I think we did that earlier. "They love him. Jump on Dad. Hug him."

Reichardt Deposition - Part 1
PETROCELLI: How did you first hear of Nicole's death?
REICHARDT: Faye's ex-husband {Paul Resnick} called me at my office.
PETROCELLI: When was that?
REICHARDT: It was about 10:00 o'clock Monday morning, the day of the murder.
PETROCELLI: And what did he tell you?
REICHARDT: He told me that Nicole had been murdered, and he asked me whether I thought Faye was safe in the rehab center where she was at and -- because him and I -- I asked him why, and he thought that possibly this was a drug-related murder.
And Paul Resnick was one of the few people who knew where Faye was, and he asked me whether I had told anybody else where Faye was. He asked me whether I thought it was prudent to get Faye out of the rehab center and fly her to his ranch in -- I believe it's in Idaho.
And I said, "Well," you know, "nobody other than very closest friends know where Faye is at, "so I thought she was safe wherever she's at.
PETROCELLI: In other words, you made the decision that you would not move Faye. Correct?
REICHARDT: Paul and I made that decision together, yeah.
PETROCELLI: And you did not move Faye. ...you thought that she was safe where she was. True?
REICHARDT: Because nobody knew where she was.
PETROCELLI: And there were a number of people who in fact knew where she was. True?
REICHARDT: Only the people that were present during the intervention.
PETROCELLI: The intervention. And they may have told other people.
REICHARDT: They may have. I wouldn't -- yeah.
PETROCELLI: And the people present at the intervention included yourself.
Paul Resnick. Of course Nicole was there. Kris Jenner. Bruce Jenner. [Name Deleted]. And O.J. Simpson knew, too. Right?
REICHARDT: He came back into town, and I think at the recital Ron told him -- Ron and Cora told him that I had put Faye in the rehab center. So that was what prompted his phone call to me on that Sunday evening: To see how I was doing, to see how I was holding up.
PETROCELLI: Faye went into the rehab center on {Thursday} June 9?
And that's when Faye was admitted?
PETROCELLI: After June 9, 1994, when was the first time you spoke to O.J. Simpson?
REICHARDT: After June 9, was that Sunday evening.
PETROCELLI: But you did hear from O.J. Simpson around 9:00 o'clock p.m. on June 12.
Couple of hours before he was scheduled to be on an airplane. True?
REICHARDT: Correct. In fact, I didn't hear from him for about l0 days prior to that because he was in Florida.
PETROCELLI: In your opinion the murders occurred at 10:00 o'clock?
REICHARDT: I suppose what was said at the media, the time line were around 10:30, 10:15, 10:00 o'clock. I don't know.

Assumed Resnick involvement {this too a "rush to judgement"}:
Petrocelli:: In this conversation with Paul Resnick, did you and he discuss anything about O.J. Simpson? 10:00 o'clock on the morning of June 13?
Reichardt: Not at all. In fact, Paul was very worried that this was a drug-related situation. That was the gist of his focus: "Do we have to get Faye out of town?"
Petrocelli:: Weren't you concerned for your friend, Mr. Simpson, whose wife had just been murdered - or his ex-wife? Didn't you ask. "Does O.J. know?" That didn't even come up? Or, "What about his children?" None of that came up? Did the thought cross your mind, by the way, that he might be responsible for this, in that conversation when you first heard about Nicole's death?
Reichardt: Not at all. The - No it never even crossed my mind, but the immediate attention was that if this is a drug hit, then does Faye have to leave town.
Petrocelli:: When you heard about the death of Nicole, did you hear about how the death occurred? Did you hear about there was another person involved?
Reichardt: No, not until later that day. I think I was driving to my office in Malibu and I listened to the news, and it was that Nicole and a young man had been murdered.
Petrocelli:: Now, when you heard that Nicole had been killed, other than drive off to your office in Malibu, did you do anything?
Reichardt: I called the Exodus Rehab Center and related to the head of the center that I talked to - I asked him for advice. I asked him {His name was Albert} what to do. I asked him whether I should come down there and to talk to Faye, and he said, "Well, we're the professionals here, so let us handle it." He took down my phone number where I was gonna be, and he asked me to be available for him. Well, he said they're going to talk to her, being the professionals there, and I said, "Well, I'll keep myself available for" - I just said that Nicole had been killed, because that's all I knew. Paul said that she was murdered at her house. So that was it.
I went to my office in Malibu. I think my next contact was that later that afternoon - later that evening I went to Exodus.
Petrocelli:: Had you learned that O.J. Simpson was a suspect?
Reichardt: No, not at that time.
Return to Reichardt

Note: All Transcript and Image Material used in this presentation is available on the WEB.
Images have been edited to provide comparative visualization of relevant evidence points.
Transcript material has been edited --
For clarification, related topics have been grouped, repeative questions and courtroom chatter deleted. Where possible, witness testimony has been condensed into a narrative format.

Unedited Simpson Court Transcripts

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Times Square 1900 block   BHI's CapitolHill

Police TimeLine Testimony

From: Initial 911 Call to 10:00 AM, 13 June 1994

Cochran: DID YOU TELL THE POLICE THAT AFTER THE POLICE ARRIVED, A MAN THAT LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM 875 CAME OUT AND SAID THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOG STARTED BARKING AT 10:30 P.M.? DID YOU TELL HIM THAT? Boztepe: YES, I REMEMBER.

Petrocelli: The police department number? Simpson: The number that they had given me. I thought they had given me a cell number or something. Petrocelli: The first time you talked? Simpson: Yeah, I believe he gave me a cell number or something. It's Number for West LA Station.

Where did Simpson get band-aid Simpson: I don't recall. It was either at the front desk or away, because a lot of people were trying to check out. I may have walked over a little bit or I may have done it at the front desk. I don't remember.

Petrocelli: Why would you call Kato Kaelin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered? Simpson: Because he was at my home. He had talked about some noises the night before. He was at my home.

Petrocelli: What was your purpose in making all these phone calls from the airplane? Simpson: Well, my purpose wasn't to make all those calls. It was just tough getting through because the plane kept --airplane's phone kept cutting out.

Unedited Simpson Court Transcripts

Times Square 1900 block BHI's CapitolHill

Cochran: DID YOU TELL THE POLICE THAT AFTER THE POLICE ARRIVED, A MAN THAT LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM 875 CAME OUT AND SAID THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOG STARTED BARKING AT 10:30 P.M.? DID YOU TELL HIM THAT?
Boztepe: YES, I REMEMBER.

Petrocelli: The police department number?
Simpson: The number that they had given me. I thought they had given me a cell number or something.
Petrocelli: The first time you talked?
Simpson: Yeah, I believe he gave me a cell number or something.
It's Number for West LA Station.

Where did Simpson get band-aid
Simpson: I don't recall. It was either at the front desk or away, because a lot of people were trying to check out. I may have walked over a little bit or I may have done it at the front desk. I don't remember.

Petrocelli: Why would you call Kato Kaelin within an hour of finding out that your wife has been murdered?
Simpson: Because he was at my home. He had talked about some noises the night before. He was at my home.

Petrocelli: What was your purpose in making all these phone calls from the airplane?
Simpson: Well, my purpose wasn't to make all those calls. It was just tough getting through because the plane kept --airplane's phone kept cutting out.