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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:47:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: MariahQ@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Touched by an Angel
Hotmail - Read Mail (p138 of
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"Touched By the Goddess!" That's great! I think I'm going to have to
steal
that . . . .
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: MariahQ@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Gnostics
James, do you have a copy of the "original Charge of the Goddess?" I ask
because there are people who have seen the original handwritten version
which
was written by Doreen Valiente which is the one most of us use today.
Doreen
herself claims she is the author.
Blessed Be,
Lady Mariah StarSinger
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:11:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: MariahQ@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Touched by an Angel
This makes me think of the four great Archangels, which predate
Christianity
by eons.
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:16:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: MariahQ@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Hotmail - Read Mail (p140 of
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Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
Cecylyna,
A very well-written, clean and concise piece. Thanks for taking the time
to
compose it and post it. I'd be interested in any responses you get as a
result.
Blessed Be,
Lady Mariah StarSinger
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:45:10 EDT
From: Carolyn E Cason
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Touched by an Angel
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:45:56 -0700 (PDT) FIRE writes:
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>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
>From: slutsrus@echonyc.com
>To: FIRE
>Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: Touched by an Angel
>Speaking as a Jewitch here, angels were a Jewish concept before they
>were a
>Christian one. The traditional Shabbat song involves asking the angels
>to
>watch over us in the coming week.
=:0 ! I honestly believed that angels were a Christian invention.
Wow! Learn something new everyday! And in response to David
Burwasser's suggestion of a show called "Touched by the Goddess," I have
to tell you, about a month ago I had a dream that I was watching PBN on
television - the Pagan Broadcasting Network. And right smack in the
middle of the afternoon was a two hour block of gay and lesbian
programming. Now, just getting a show called "Touched by the Goddess" on
the air would be hard enough, but imagine an entire network of it
competing with the likes of CBS and the others! That would be a major
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victory, wouldn't it? Keep the dream alive!!! Carolyn :)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:30:32 -0400
From: John Yohalem
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: discussion:Do not forget the Gnostics.
[The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
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John Brightshadow Yohalem
enchante@escape.com
"Sometimes I feel discriminated against, but it does not make me angry. It
merely astonishes me. How *can* any deny themselves the pleasure of my
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company?"
-- Zora Neale Hurston
<[}xxxxxx{]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
----------
> From: FIRE
> To: FIRE:;
> Subject: Re: FIRE: discussion:Do not forget the Gnostics.
> Date: Saturday, April 19, 1997 2:06 AM
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:18:17 PDT
> From: James Baker
> To: danica@mills.edu
> Subject: Re: FIRE: discussion:Do not forget the Gnostics.
>
>
>
> >
> >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:01:18 -0400
> >From: John Yohalem
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> >To: FIRE
> >Subject: Re: FIRE: discussion:Do not forget the Gnostics.
> >
> >John Brightshadow Yohalem
> >enchante@escape.com
> >
> >Also, what on earth do you mean Gerald Gardner derived the "original
Charge
> >of the Goddess" from the French Gnostic mass? THere is a good deal of
> >Crowley material in the Charge, but did he get it from the Gnostic
Church,
> >or did he write it for that church?
> >
> >Brightshadow
>
> He wrote it for the church. Liber XV (aka The Gnostic Mass) was
written by
> Aleister Crowley as the Canon Missae of the Ecclesiae Gnosticae
Catholicae in
> 1913. It was from this ritual ,among other sources, that Gardner adapted
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much of
> his Crowley derived material. I never meant to imply that the EGC was a
part of
> the French Gnostic Church. I was just pointing out that the two shared a
common
> line of succession. That sort of thing is often important to people
studying the
> history of the various Gnostic liniages. But not, usually, to anyone
else. I'm
By "he" I mean, do you imply that Gardner wrote the Gnostic mass? Because
the Gardnerian material you refer to does not bear any resemblance to it.
>From examination of Crowley's own diaries, we learn that the sole contact
between the two was three lunches in the last weeks of Crowley's life.
From
them, Gardner certainly did not derive any of his own rituals.
As Ceisiwr Serith makes clear in his article "The Charge of the Goddess: A
Source Analysis" (in Enchante #21) about 24% of the Charge has its
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ultimate
origin n Crowley's Book of the Law, Liber LXV and The Vision and the
Voice.
The rest of it has no such connection.There is no connection at all to
Gardner's 3rd Degree rituals.
But in any case, the subject I brought up was how the Crowleyite
Gnosticism, which is a worship of self, of humanity cut off from nature,
could possibly count as a pagan religion.
John Brightshadow Yohalem
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:52:56 -0700
From: moon
To: FIRE
Subject: The Judge
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I would like to tell you all a little conversation that I had with one
of my friends and a teacher. We live in Alabama, so we are really
conserned. They started talking about it and saying that they were good
Christians but that they did not belief that it was right. My teacher
said that the ones that say "Thou shall not kill, and Thou shall not
lie" should e okay to put up. I looked at them and said, Okay, you know
that I am not Christian, but that I have respect for your religon. I
think it is totally wrong for him to have any of them up. If anything
from my religon was up there people would be raising complete and total
hell over it. Plus, people are being judged by something they don't
believe in. It is totally wrong. Another thing is the fact that he is
doing something that is against the law by not taking them down when he
was told that he had to. It does not mean that you are a bad Christian
just because you think that he should not have them up there. My
teacher said that she thought that it was making Alabama take a major
step back and that we should just go and kick the African Americans out
of Alabama state, because it was basically the same thing. I think that
the reason that she was upset about it was not because the judge had the
ten amendmends up, but because it was another step back for Alabama. It
is really hard to live in Alabama if you are anything other then
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Christian and this judge is making it so much harder. I really think
that something needs to be done about him.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:05:43 +0000
From: sunwyn@mail.erinet.com
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: FIRE
> To: FIRE:;
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:21:16 PDT
> From: James Baker
> To: danica@mills.edu
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
>
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>
> >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:31:03 -0500 (EST)
> >From: Cecylyna Brightsword
> >To: eracl , FIRE
> >Subject: Goths in Utah...
> >
> >- The pentagram (a five-pointed star) or pentacle (the star in a
> >circle) in an UPRIGHT position. Upright, this symbol both echoes the
> >Greek Pythagorean beliefs of perfection of form, and symbolizes the
> >ancient elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit, with the
topmost
> >point standing for Spirit as the highest ideal, within the circle of
> >eternity. The fact that Satanism turns this symbol upside down to
> >desecrate it doesn't make the symbol in its original format Satanic any
> >more than the fact that Satanism turns the Christian Cross upside down
> >makes the Cross a Satanic symbol.
>
I was taught that an inverted pentagram is a symbol of the second
degree initiate.
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Sunwyn
***************************************************
http://www.erinet.com/sunwyn/home.htm
***************************************************
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:58:57 -0400
From: Anemone
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: There goes Ohio
Tim Keene wrote:
> if there are groups of adult males, tying up the
> library's computers for hours to look at pornographic pictures, and
other
> users are complaining that they cannot access the Internet to do
> legitimate research, what do you do?
>
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Many New York City public libraries, which are constantly battling ever
shrinking hours and resources, have instituted time limits for using
their computers, thus preventing the above problem without determining
what their patrons can and cannot access.
Blessings, light & dark,
Margot
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:54:17 EDT
From: Carolyn E Cason
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Touched by an Angel
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:41:29 -0700 (PDT) FIRE writes:
>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
>From: FIRE
>To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
>Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: Touched by an Angel
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>On a cool note, we do have a pagan character of sorts on a major U.S.
>sitcom... Phoebe on "Friends"
I enjoyed that character when the series first started, but lately it
seems they're toning her down quite a bit. Carolyn :)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:28:48 EDT
From: Harrill D Heath
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: action alert: Protest letter
It's good to hear carrier people speaking up against people of power
abusing their power .
Blessed Be
Dream Fox
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:28:48 EDT
From: Harrill D Heath
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: The Judge
The judge is breaking the law , and just because he is a judge he
shouldn't be able to get away with it. If he doesn't take the plaque off
the wall they should send in a federal marshal with a worker and take it
down , if he tries to stop them he should be arrested tried and
sentenced. If it were a pagan judge with a pentacle doing the same thing
I'm quiet sure that's what would be done .
A pagan Judge now there's a good idea. Let's work on that.
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Blessed Be
Dream Fox
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:45:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> From: sunwyn@mail.erinet.com
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
>
> I was taught that an inverted pentagram is a symbol of the second
> degree initiate.
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That is British practice. They don't have a major religious movement
putting a lot of effort into libelling them and their symbols.
Blessed B,
Dave B.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:50:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Successful protest?
Today's (Cleveland) _Plain Dealer_ ran a wire story about the jury in the
McVeigh case. It did not refer to any "self-proclaimed witch." It did not
mention a Witch on the jury at all.
Congratulations, protesters! You have succeeded in marginalizing us again!
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"Be careful what you ask for. You might get it."
Blessed be,
Dave Burwasser
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:03:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: forwarded from 4/11 Salt Lake Tribune
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, lorelei wrote:
> did it not
> ever occur to 'them' that many of the 'symptoms' are merely symptoms of
> adolescence?
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Alas, I am cynical enough to believe it did. I think the drug warriors
and religious fundamentalists are fully aware that they are exploiting
the fragmented nature of the the American family to fill parents with
disinformation about their children.
One hundred years ago, parents of adolescents had their own parents
around to remind them of how the parents had behaved as adolescents. And
witnessing, as young children, the adolescence of older siblings and
cousins offered them a grounding in the nature of "normal adolescence"
(if that is not an oxymoron).
Today's small nuclear family has none of these resources. And since the
secular nannies and theocrat-wannabes have no scruples I have noticed in
any other sphere, I see no reason to doubt they are exploiting this to
the furthest extent possible.
Blessed be,
Dave Burwasser
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:31:10 -0700
From: Carla
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
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FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:45:50 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "David R. Burwasser"
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths in Utah...
>
> Goth music
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I have always liked Goth
There is drama, mystery and rituals
( remember: all groups have their rituals)
great music (I love to dance) and great cloth. (no, I am not 18)
It can be really very dramatic, - it smells dark and forbidden
and sometimes it is good to go ^there ^.
of course it can be dangerous, dangerous to the soul
if the wrong teachers are consulted a mind
especially a young and shapeshifting mind can be easily
corrupted and mislead.
parental guidance is here very important. the journey for
spiritual truth should always be supported and guided
by the family. This, in my humble opinion, is where censorship
is allowed. The parent decides when the child is exposed to
certain sensitive materials .In our times, everyone will be
exposed to everything, timing is the crucial element.
There are many reasons a youth, or who ever (I am 35)
is drawn to Goth. Sometimes it is only a fad, peers-,
sometimes it is the music and the energy from it,
but other times it is a search for more than the visible
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reality.
I apologize for all the gramatical errors I have made, and I hope the
spellcheck got all my spelling errors. English is my second (third)
language.
Carla
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 04:19:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cecca10553@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Trouble in NC
Here is an article I found on the web at
http://www.caj.com/ucl/lsartho.htm.
I thought it was right up FIRE's alley. Please check out the updates
section
on this web page. I live in the same town but can only offer moral
support.
Can anyone else out there help Lady Silver?
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"ONSLOW SOCIAL WORKER BLAMES FIRING ON HER WITCHCRAFT
This is the article on Lady Silver's case. Thanks to all who have written
in.
We can use ANY help you can provide. Questions can be sent to
galahad@tzaddi.prideweb.com , or you can find us on our web page at
http://www.caj.com/ucl/silver.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONSLOW SOCIAL WORKER BLAMES FIRING ON HER WITCHCRAFT
By: Misti C. Lee
(Star News Corespondent)
JACKONSVILE - An Onslow County social worker who places foster children
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into
temporary homes believes she was fired in part because she is a Practicing
Witch.
Toni Leveille, who has been with Onslow Department of Social Services for
10 months, said her Wiccan faith did not interfere with her supervision
of 17 children's cases or her relationship with foster parents and
biological parents.
"My religion is a gentle religion," Ms Leveille said. "I don't proselytize
and try to convert people, so it's not a problem."
Ms. Leveille was fired December 27th, along with her supervisor, Neta
Blair, and another foster care worker, Sandra Riley.
Ms. Riley appealed her case to the Social Services board during a
closed session on Wednesday. She had worked with the department
for 13 years.
Ms. Riley said she is not a witch. Dr. Blair would not discuss her case,
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other than to say sshe plans to appeal her termination.
Ms. Leveille believes her witchcraft played a role in the firings.
"You mean all of a sudden three of us did something to be fired on the
same day?" Ms. Leveille said. "Several people have suggested it might
be the witchcraft. I know the reason wasn't what they said it was."
But Jim Coats, Social Services' interim director, said witchcraft had
nothing to do with Ms. Leveille's dismissaland that he knew nothing
of her religion.
"I have no firsthand knowledge of it nor even any second knowledge,"
he said.
He said it would be improper to talk more about the firings.
Agenda Turner, the department head who recommended the women be fired,
could not be reached for comment.
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No actions are taken by the Social Services board based on anyone's
religion, Mr. Coats said.
That's also true in another case in which another witch in Jacksonville
lost custody of her children, Mr. Coats said.
Kathleen Jones (ED: aka, Lady Silver), an ordained minister in the
Wiccan faith, said she asked Social Services two years ago to help
her with her teen-age, who is diagnosed as a Willie M, which means
he has an assaultive and angressive behavior.
He was skipping school and had started vandalizing property, she
said. She said she first contacted several military schools, but
was told her son was to young to enroll. Calling Social Services
was her last hope, but it turned out to be a decision she
regretted.
"They've taken my child because I'm a pagan," said Ms. Jones, 31.
Her 14-year-old son, , and 6-year-old daughter,
, were removed
by court order shortly after a social worker visited the
home, Ms. Jones said.
The social worker asked about the pentegram rings, and necklances
she was wearing and the pagan artwork on her walls.
In her home she displays three pictures of a woman standing in a
poolof water, a woman's face floating above the water and a woman
with leaves falling near her face. They represent fire, earth,
and water she said.
She has a small altar arranged on a shelf in her bedroom, holding
a god Thor, and a goddess, Athena, two candles, a chalice filled
with slat, and a dagger.
Nearby are family photographs of her with .
"She told me she didn't believe in it, and she didn't think it
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was right," Ms. Jones said. "I believe they won't let me
have my son back because of my religious beliefs, and my
son was following in my foodsteps."
She also said she was told her appearence on "The Other Side"
a television show about witches, embarrased the county's
Social Services Department.
was returned six months later but has been
questioned by social workers about nightmares she has.
"They said she was having nightmares about being in circle",
Ms. Jones said, refering to the circle particpated in
when she was wiccaned, or initiated into the faith.
"She's having nightmares because she's afraid she'll be taken
away from me."
During initiation ceremony, Wiccans asked the god
and goddess to protect her through life. There was no
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blood or sex involved, only some chanting, Ms. Jones said.
Wicca, is an ancient religion that predates Christianity
and is based on nature and its elements. Wiccans believe
the good, or bad, you do comes back to you.
They gather to celebrate the full moon and major holidays.
About 2,000 Wiccans gathered on private land in Fairy
Glen, S.C. (near Anderson) on Halloween, Ms. Jones said.
Tuesday afternoon, ran inside and sat on
her mother's lapo. She kissed Ms. Jones several times
and asked if she could have a snack.
has been placed in a group home in Jacksonville.
He has been moved 17 times in the last year, and visitation
with his mother has dropped to about every other week,
Ms. Jones said.
On Tuesday Night, apparently attacked a social
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worker and was admitted to Brynn Marr Hospital in
Jacksonville, she said.
Her son's behavior has gotten much more violet since he's been
out of her home, said. And she's noticed a decline since Ms.
Leveille who was assigned to his case, has been fired.
"He's worse than he ever was," Ms. Jones said. "My son needs
to be with me. When Toni was assigned to the case, it has
improved because Toni was willing to listen. We were all
working together as a team."
Ms. Jones and Ms. Leveille are not members of the same
Wiccan sect. Ms. Leveille said she became Wiccan in
New England, and that her fiath isn't as grounded in
ritual as the sects in the South.
"We have clients who are actively involved in practicing
witchcraft, and I was supportive of their freedom of
religion," she said. "There were biological parents
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who maybe were not treated fairly because of their
religious practices."
Ms. Leveille had indicated could return home in about
six months, Ms. Jones said. The new social worker assigned to
the case believes it will take one to two years, she said.
Mr. Coats said said was removed from the home
for reasons other than his mother's witchcraft, but he wouldn't
elaborate.
Ms. Jones had been taking classes at Coastal Carolina Community
College but quit because of family problems. She also quit working
in the Jacksonville adult businesses and is now dawincg in Fayetteville
where the money i sbetter, she said.
Ms. Leveille said her concerns that foster parents be held more
accountable may have contributed to her dismissal. Foster parents
should be taught that their job isn't just to house children,
but to help them become more psychologically healthy, she said.
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"We tried to change patterns that were abusive to children" she
said, also referring to Drr. Blair. She said that foster parents
"often.. just come to dump the children on DSS' doorsteps."
"They do it all the time. They bring their clothes tell us to
pick the kids up at school."
She was told at a hearing on December 23rd that she was being
fired because she was not at work during normal business
hours and one day couldn't be reached until lunch. She also
was acussed of falsifying her timesheet.
She also was cited for allowing an unsupervised visit between
a parent and a child, violating a court order. The visit was
supervised by a relative and the order did not say, the social
worker must be present, Ms. Leveille said.
She said those reasons were merely excuses to get rid of her.
She has hired a lawyer amd started the appeals process, she
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said.
"They don't have grounds for firing me," she said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about Lady Silver, check out the Lady Silver web page at
http://www.caj.com/ucl/silver.htm or you can
email us at galahad@tzaddi.prideweb.com. This text is copyrighted by the
Moring Star News of Wilmington,
North Carolina."
This is a direct copy of the web page. Please if anyone can help use the
contacts listed in this web page.
Blessed Be,
Donna aka Cecca10553
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 05:50:47 -0800
From: Morgaine LaFey
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
I think the point we were making, Dave, is that the juror's religion is
totally irrelevent. Making any mention of it at all was, in my opinion as
a
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journalist, sensationalism at its worst.
BB,
Morgaine
--
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:15:20 -0500
From: BLK-MRLR@ix.netcom.com
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Goths
milieu--
lol--actually maybe it's a good thing we don't know who each other
are.....and that was my point, exactly; some of the *symptoms* described
are merely those of adolescence. why do folks refuse to let teen agers
*be* teen agers. in my experience, having raised several of them, it is
far better for *all* concerned to let teens be teens, and to discuss,
openly, what's going on in their world. they *will* experiment with
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many belief structures, etc. while learning about themselves. trying to
prevent their exploration on only creates more heartache. gentle
guidance and open communication are far more effective.
blessings,
lorelei
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:05:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: RED
To: "David R. Burwasser"
Cc: Tim Keene ,
"David R. Burwasser" , cuups-l@uua.org,
cuups-usa@efn.org, danica@mills.edu, David Shontz
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Tim Keene wrote:
>
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> > [I]f there are groups of adult males, tying up the
> > library's computers for hours to look at pornographic pictures, and
other
> > users are complaining that they cannot access the Internet to do
> > legitimate research, what do you do?
>
> Enforce on-line time limits on everyone.
>
> BB -- dB
>
I work as a manager for one of UTA's labs. Officially, pornographic
viewing is to be restricted for class use only, but it's been lax until
recently. Some people get offended from the material, and others do not.
The former usually are more vocal, though, and so we're enforcing the
policy. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, and my lab is in Fine
Arts, so it has a good chance that it is actually for class. I haven't
had a problem with it, though, because my lab isn't used or full that
often. The school's policy on full labs, though,m is a 2 hour limit, no
matter what anyone is working on. When I was an assistant in the library
lab, we would go to people playing games and web-surfing for pleasure not
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info, and ask them to leave, since that lab was used quite often. I like
the 2 hour limit, it frees up computers for those that need them, and if
someone needs the 'puter for longer, they can always trek to another of
our labs.
My 2
RED
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:27:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: RED
Cc: "David R. Burwasser" ,
Tim Keene , cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org,
danica@mills.edu, David Shontz
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
RED:
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Thanks for your $0.02. On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, RED wrote:
> I work as a manager for one of UTA's labs. Officially, pornographic
> viewing is to be restricted for class use only
Boy, college has changed a lot since I graduated.
> Some people get offended from the material
Tough.
> The school's policy on full labs, though,m is a 2 hour limit, no
> matter what anyone is working on.
I understand from one of the lists I subscribe (not sure which, now) that
NYC public libraries do something similar, ie, implement my off-the-cuff
suggestion of time limits. (At age 55 I never know when some suggested
regulation that seems perfectly reasonable to me is going to be viewed as
horribly retro and authoritarian by one of the generations that has
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followed.)
> When I was an assistant in the library
> lab, we would go to people playing games and web-surfing for pleasure
not
> info, and ask them to leave, since that lab was used quite often.
That requires you to judge that one person's use is more important than
another's. It's easier to do that in a college lab, which (one assumes)
is dedicated to some purpose, than in a public library, which is there
for all the patrons.
BB -- dB
Hotmail - Read Mail (p179 of
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:49:07 -0600
From: Tiger Eye
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Fwd: Witch Bashing by CNN
Sorry if this is a repeat, but here's a note about the "self-proclaimed
witch" line from CNN. This message was forwarded to me by a friend who
said he thought it came from Iron Oak...where it came from before that is
anyone's guess... :)
Tiger Eye
>>The problem is not the reporter, it is the Chicago Times Stylebook which
most
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>>newspapers and many TV news depts. follow as a guide. They stylebook
>>recommends that they say "self-proclaimed witch" since for them simply
to say
>>someone is a witch, in this society, could be taken as a slander and
result
>>in a lawsuit against the publishers or broadcasters if the person were
to
>>deny the label and take offense at it. By saying self-proclaimed, they
clear
>>up any question of libel or slander. Slander is the publishing of a
malicious
>>untruth about someone; libel is the unwarranted or unjustified
publication of
>>defamatory information, whether true or false isn't of any consequence.
>>
>>If we want to end this sort of awkwardphraseology, we need to get the
>>stylebook changed, as it is the underlieing cause of the use of that
phrase.
>> That's one of the reasons we at ATC do NOT identify ourselves to the
general
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>>public by the name Witch, but rather, by the name Wiccan. There is no
need
>>for them to say "self-proclaimed Wiccan" and so they don't. If the
listener
>>doesn't comprehend the word you are using in the same way that you do,
why
>>then it is no one's fault but yours if you are having trouble
communicating
>>what you really mean to convey.
>>
>>They aren't "Witch Bashing" they are playing CYA (cover your ass).
>>
>>Pete Pathfinder Davis
>>Archpriest,
>>Aquarian Tabernacle Church
>>
>>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:29:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: RED
To: "David R. Burwasser"
Cc: "David R. Burwasser" ,
Tim Keene , cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org,
danica@mills.edu, David Shontz
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
> RED:
>
> Thanks for your $0.02. On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, RED wrote:
>
It was my last... Paycheck to paycheck ya know.
> > I work as a manager for one of UTA's labs. Officially, pornographic
> > viewing is to be restricted for class use only
>
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> Boy, college has changed a lot since I graduated.
>
Do tell. *g*
> > Some people get offended from the material
>
> Tough.
>
I think it would be more of an issue in public libraries due to the fact
that they are open to people of all ages, and most parents in US would
have hissy fits if their kids saw porn from something paid with their
taxes (not mentioning that the kids could find Mommy and Daddy's porn
under the bed...). So it's really difficult for that situation.
> > The school's policy on full labs, though,m is a 2 hour limit, no
> > matter what anyone is working on.
>
> I understand from one of the lists I subscribe (not sure which, now)
Hotmail - Read Mail (p184 of
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that
> NYC public libraries do something similar, ie, implement my off-the-cuff
> suggestion of time limits. (At age 55 I never know when some suggested
> regulation that seems perfectly reasonable to me is going to be viewed
as
> horribly retro and authoritarian by one of the generations that has
> followed.)
>
*nod* I believe why my lab isn't used as often as the other campus labs
is because the fine arts building doesn't hook up to the internet (due to
asbestos in the ceilings), so we get people who actually have to work on
papers, and have all their research or pictures or whatever. I have to
admit I'm glad I don't have to deal with the extra "problem" of users
holding up the puters from other users, when the first ones are goofing
around. I love goofing as much as the next person, but as part of the
educational system, I must say that it'd be pretty unfair to the user who
needed to work, not play, if he/she couldn't use a computer because
someone else didn't have anything better to do.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p185 of
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> > When I was an assistant in the library
> > lab, we would go to people playing games and web-surfing for pleasure
not
> > info, and ask them to leave, since that lab was used quite often.
>
> That requires you to judge that one person's use is more important than
> another's. It's easier to do that in a college lab, which (one assumes)
> is dedicated to some purpose, than in a public library, which is there
> for all the patrons.
>
To a certain extent, yes, we do have to judge. For the most part, games
and web-surfing DON'T have anything to do with a class assignment. That
is why we ask the person if they are using it for class. Of course, if
they are looking at Barney Bashing 101 and not writing or printing
anything out, it's unlikely. In a public library, I would think it would
be best just to plain limit it in time, or have a "fill-up" of internet
hours for each patron per week. This is how my BF's school deals with
user limits for internet.
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> BB -- dB
>
A couple of buttons, and a string, since I'm penniless.
RED
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:40:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: RED
Cc: "David R. Burwasser" ,
Tim Keene , cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org,
danica@mills.edu, David Shontz
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
Hotmail - Read Mail (p187 of
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On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, RED wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
>
> > Tough.
> >
>
> I think it would be more of an issue in public libraries due to the fact
> that they are open to people of all ages, and most parents in US would
> have hissy fits if their kids saw porn from something paid with their
> taxes (not mentioning that the kids could find Mommy and Daddy's porn
> under the bed...). So it's really difficult for that situation.
Right. And for those folks I have a little more compassion. But one
college student saying another college student shouldn't be looking at
that stuff? *snicker*
BB -- dB
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:35:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> From: Morgaine LaFey
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> I think the point we were making, Dave, is that the juror's religion is
> totally irrelevent. Making any mention of it at all was, in my opinion
as a
> journalist, sensationalism at its worst.
I disagree.
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I was in Cleveland as a kid, when the newspapers railroaded Sam Shepherd
into jail. (He has recently been exonerated posthumously by DNA
evidence.) I've seen journalistic sensationalism at its worst, and
calling a witch "self-proclaimed" when that is the stone truth is not
even in the same ballpark.
IMHO.
BB -- dB
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:58:57 -0500
From: Steven Craig Hickman
To: FIRE
Subject: Earth Religion Rights Campaign
[The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
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Not sure if any of you are aware of our
Earth Religion Rights Campaign - http://www.earthwisdom.com/athame8.htm
Plus I have posted information about the arrest of Paul Watson on our site
as well: http://www.earthwisdom.com/athame7.htm
Paul Watson, president of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society,
co-founder of
Greenpeace and one of the originators of direct action environmentalism;
has
been arrested in the Netherlands by order of the Norwegian Government.
Norway
has 20 days to request extradition.
***************************
Earthwizard
Steven Craig Hickman
Hotmail - Read Mail (p191 of
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shickman@cyberramp.net
The Wisdom of the Earth Home Page: http://www.earthwisdom.com/
Let Joy Reign! May the Goddess go with you always!
**************************
"Let Earth Wisdom be your guide to the mysteries
of the ancient Civilization of the Goddess.
Explore the rich heritage of the Pagan/Wiccan
traditions. Interact with fellow kindred in our
online Live Chat Room and Message board. And discover
thousands of other sites that relate to the Earth
based religious Culture."
All new: Athame Book of Shadows http://www.earthwisdom.com/athame.html
Here you will find an introduction to the ancient religion of the Goddess
and
free web graphics for your site!
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 05:09:53 -0400
Hotmail - Read Mail (p192 of
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From: John Yohalem
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
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[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 05:50:47 -0800
> From: Morgaine LaFey
> To: danica@mills.edu
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> I think the point we were making, Dave, is that the juror's religion is
> totally irrelevent. Making any mention of it at all was, in my opinion
as a
> journalist, sensationalism at its worst.
>
> BB,
> Morgaine
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I thought it was newsworthy. I was fascinated to read it, and the
responses
to it.
Sensationalism would have been fifty point headlines: WITCH TO JUDGE OKLA
CITY CASE, and I haven't seen those.
JY
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 04:20:26 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 05:09:53 -0400
> From: John Yohalem
Hotmail - Read Mail (p194 of
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> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 05:50:47 -0800
> > From: Morgaine LaFey
> > To: danica@mills.edu
> > Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
> >
> > I think the point we were making, Dave, is that the juror's religion
is
> > totally irrelevent. Making any mention of it at all was, in my
opinion
> as a
> > journalist, sensationalism at its worst.
> >
> > BB,
> > Morgaine
>
> I thought it was newsworthy. I was fascinated to read it, and the
responses
Hotmail - Read Mail (p195 of
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> to it.
>
> Sensationalism would have been fifty point headlines: WITCH TO JUDGE
OKLA
> CITY CASE, and I haven't seen those.
>
> JYI have to disagree somewhat. There was no mention of the religions
from
the other jurors. This person was singled out among a group of several
hundreds. This could cause harm to this person unintentional as it may
seem.
Mr. Mcveigh's attorneys could use this to question the competence of this
juror, if selected for the jury. Anything to sensationalize the
issue-I know I may be engaging in pure hyperbole here, however consider
this carefully-all those xtians out there saying; "can you believe this,
a witch in the jury?" You'll hear everything from plain silliness to
satanism.
IMHO,
Mel J. Fleming II, Rev
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:19:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cecca10553@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: NC addresses
Here are some addresses in NC for the Lady Silver case.
The following information was provided through a search on
http://www.infospace.com.through the hard work and dedication of a very
dear
woman. Thanks R.G.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p197 of
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Acting Director
Onslow County Department of Social Services
1915 Onslow Drive Extended
Jacksonville, NC 28540
The Honorable Governor James Hunt
116 West Jones Street
Raleigh, North Carolina 27603-8001
Fax: 919-733-2120
Michael F. Easley
Attorney General of North Carolina
P. O. Box 629
Raleigh, NC 27602
Fax:: 919-733-7491
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Ms. Wanda Bryant
Office of the Attorney General
Citizens Rights Division
P. O. Box 629
Raleigh, NC 27602
Fax:: 919-733-7491
Dr. H. David Bruton
Director of the North Carolina Department of Human Resources
P. O. Box 29526
Raleigh, NC 27626-0526
Fax: 919-715-4645
Mr. C. Robin Britt, Sr.
Secretary of the North Carolina Department of Human Resources
P. O. Box 29526
Raleigh, NC 27626-0526
Fax: 919-715-4645
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Kevin Fitzgerald, Administrator
N. C. Department of Human Resources
Social Services Division
P. O. Box 29526
Raleigh, NC 27626-0526
Marc Lodge
Legal Division
N. C. Department of Human Resources
Social Services Division
P. O. Box 29526
Raleigh, NC 27626-0526
When writing these people, be polite and and let them know that this isn't
a
Wiccan Issue.. it is a Civil Rights issue.
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Blessed Be,
Cecca10553
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:20:07 PDT
From: James Baker
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: Gnostics
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
>From: MariahQ@aol.com
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Re:Gnostics
>
>James, do you have a copy of the "original Charge of the Goddess?" I ask
>because there are people who have seen the original handwritten version
which
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Blessed Be,
Cecca10553
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:20:07 PDT
From: James Baker
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: Gnostics
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
>From: MariahQ@aol.com
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Re:Gnostics
>
>James, do you have a copy of the "original Charge of the Goddess?" I ask
>because there are people who have seen the original handwritten version
which
Hotmail - Read Mail (p201 of
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>was written by Doreen Valiente which is the one most of us use today.
Doreen
>herself claims she is the author.
>Blessed Be,
>Lady Mariah StarSinger
>
I was refering to the earlier version by Gerald Gardner. According to
Doreen's book "The Rebirth of Witchcraft" she set out to write (or
rewrite) a
new version after recognizing the source of the original as being Liber
AL. Her
version does maintain Gardners other source-Leland's Aradia. I don't have
my
copy handy or I'd cite the page number.
I haven't seen a copy of the original, myself. But my good friend
Bishop
Allen Greenfield did see a copy in the mid '80's among the Gardner
Colletion in
St. Augustine, when he perchased Gardner's OTO charter from Riply's. Of
course,
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we also have Valiente's own account in her book.
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:36:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> From: mel j fleming II
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> I have to disagree somewhat. There was no mention of the religions from
Hotmail - Read Mail (p203 of
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> the other jurors. This person was singled out among a group of several
> hundreds.
Mel:
The _Plain Dealer_ article I mentioned was *about* the religious
orientations of the jurors. This is a death penalty case, and their
deeper feelings will play a role.
The Protestants, etc, were mentioned. The witch was not.
I repeat, this protest has succeeded in marginalizing us again. The only
question now is, are we going to acknowledge that and try not to do
anything this stupid in the future? Or are we going to deny that we ever
make mistakes, and repeat them compulsively?
BB -- dB
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: FIRE
To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
> I repeat, this protest has succeeded in marginalizing us again. The only
> question now is, are we going to acknowledge that and try not to do
> anything this stupid in the future? Or are we going to deny that we ever
> make mistakes, and repeat them compulsively?
IMHO, it would be best to find out whether the _Plain Dealer_ had even
heard of the CNN petition. Whether the petition was right or not, we have
no way of knowing what effects it had until we know what this particular
article's intentions were. for all we know, they may have done their own
research into the religious paths of the jurors; the witch may have been
sick of having her religion publicized, and stayed out of their way; the
editor may have had reasons for omitting this piece of information,
perhaps feeling that it wasn't a valid religious path or that it didn't
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fit into the slant of the story... we need to find out whether they were
scared by the CNN petition before accusing the petitioners of causing
media silence.
-d
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:24:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Burwasser"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> From: FIRE
> To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
Hotmail - Read Mail (p206 of
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>
> we need to find out whether they were
> scared by the CNN petition before accusing the petitioners of causing
> media silence.
IMHO this statement takes the first step toward denial and compulsive
repetition. We are ready to attribute all sorts of fallout to the words
"self-proclaimed" but are going to demand evidentiary-level proof that we
may have shot ourselves in the foot.
This is not the first time around for this kind of hubris. Eg, the
women's movement has never come to terms with the enormous blunder of the
suffragists in helping saddle this country with Prohibition, or of the
boost the feminist anti-pornography movement gave to the moralists of the
Reagan Administration. We need to live with our goofs or we will make
many, many more.
The PD story was an AP wire profile of the jury pool, authored by Michael
Fleeman and edited I know not how much by the PD. It covered the jurors
in several dimensions -- race, education, military ties, etc -- including:
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<< RELIGION: Almost all the [juror] candidates said they were religious.
Most were either Roman Catholic or Lutheran. >>
There we aren't again. Those with AP insider-hood can take it from there.
And just what the *hell* do we run about with petitions for, if we
expect them to have no effect?
BB -- dB
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