Due to size constraints, each archive file can only be about 500k. Therefore, many of the articles in the older archives are quite recent. Be sure to check them out!
Hotmail - Read Mail (p208 of
300)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:17:11 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: FIRE
> To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
>
> > I repeat, this protest has succeeded in marginalizing us again. The
only
> > question now is, are we going to acknowledge that and try not to do
> > anything this stupid in the future? Or are we going to deny that we
ever
> > make mistakes, and repeat them compulsively?
Hotmail - Read Mail (p209 of
300)
> IMHO, it would be best to find out whether the _Plain Dealer_ had even
> heard of the CNN petition. Whether the petition was right or not, we
have
> no way of knowing what effects it had until we know what this particular
> article's intentions were. for all we know, they may have done their own
> research into the religious paths of the jurors; the witch may have been
> sick of having her religion publicized, and stayed out of their way; the
> editor may have had reasons for omitting this piece of information,
> perhaps feeling that it wasn't a valid religious path or that it didn't
> fit into the slant of the story... we need to find out whether they were
> scared by the CNN petition before accusing the petitioners of causing
> media silence.
> -d
I, myself and other members of ERAL have signed the petition. I have no
knowledge of it being circulated through FIRE. However several ERAL
people have.
I personally believe that the Kathleen Kennedy broadcast of the person's
religion was irresponsible, igonrant and insentive. As a former jury
foreperson, it is my sincere hope that personal feelings don't colour the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p210 of
300)
judgement of the jurors, and that they excersize, their verdict according
to the LAW and the EVIDENCE admitted on the trial. To do otherwise in
itself would be a travesty of justice
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:27:08 -0400
From: Corbie
To: "'FIRE:danica@mills.edu'"
Subject: Tempests in teapots, and other musings
BB all,
Some of the back-and-forth commentary here has finally motivated me to
de-lurk
again with some ramblings of my own.
I firmly believe it's well and good to stay alert to civil rights
abuses--especially in areas which affect you personally, such as in cases
of
Hotmail - Read Mail (p211 of
300)
religious discrimination. I say alert and not vigilant for a reason:
vigilante stems from the same root word, and IMHO conjures up a vision of
the
sort of shrill finger-pointing employed by the ever-vigilant pursed-lip
moralists of the so-called religious right.
In my opinion the use of the term "self-proclaimed witch" in journalism is
pure
common sense. As has been pointed out before, "witch" is considered a
pejorative in our language, and applying the label without written consent
opens up a libel risk most responsible journalists won't take. I might
have
preferred had the author sought more information about this "witch" to
allay
such fears, but today's newspaper articles are largely cut-and-paste hacks
from
AP wires with little word smithing from overworked and time-stressed
reporters
as it is. The religious leanings of the jurors in a capital murder trial
is
Hotmail - Read Mail (p212 of
300)
indeed newsworthy, and that the article included "witch" (even with the
self-proclaimed caveat) in the context of religion instead of mental
illness is
quite a forward leap by some lights.
I hold nothing but amused contempt for street-corner preachers, or for
those
who hold shrill protest rallies outside of abortion clinics and theaters
airing
"The Last Temptation of Christ." I shrugged at questions about "Hocus
Pocus"
and "The Craft" (I'm a very "out" and public witch so such questions are
expected) and even made certain to see them both. I laughed at the first
and
was painfully bored by the second.
My point? I choose my battles carefully, and I do my homework first. A
terrible swift sword is one thing, but if it misses the mark, what purpose
does
it serve? Further, I recognize that social change is always a slow,
Hotmail - Read Mail (p213 of
300)
gradual
thing which can be swept away in the blink of a revolution unless carried
forward in small, well-founded steps which end up being internalized by
society. I agree with those who feel the petition against the
"self-proclaimed
witch" story to be premature. I, too, experience flashes of indigence and
outrage when I encounter what I perceive to be bone-headed media hype. If
the
offense is serious enough to motivate me to act, however, I enforce a
cooling-off period wherein I research the /facts/ regarding the
episode--everything obtainable. Even long distance phone calls to
publishers
are cheap when measured against the danger of marginalizing yourself by
being
perceived as thin-skinned, ill-informed, or "just another one of those
religious nuts."
Have you noticed how "Deadhead" gradually stopped being an insult as more
and
more of them emerged among the ranks of the "mainstream" members of
Hotmail - Read Mail (p214 of
300)
society?
The biggest view-upsetting thing that can happen to a bigot is to be
proven
wrong. "Man, I never /knew/ she was a lesbian; she's always acted so
/normal!/
I mean, we're like /friends!/" The die-hards will rationalize their own
fears
and re-write their memories to prove they "knew it all along," but they're
a
minority. Enduring social change comes from within. If you want to
effect
such change in society, you must first be perceived to be part of that
society.
Change will come (it happens every day), and the efforts of any religious
fundamentalist groups to stifle us will come to naught in the long run.
I'm
not saying you should quiet down and do nothing; rather, think carefully
before
you act. Don't believe the media hype (funded by the Social Security
Hotmail - Read Mail (p215 of
300)
checks of
feeble old-timers afraid of What Comes Next and who have little to do
during
the day but watch a TV screen full of big-haired preachers with grand
promises
and open offerings buckets). America isn't taking any "big step to the
right,"
as the fundamentalists would have you believe. Look at the big picture,
at how
social change has progressed in our culture, and recognize that even if
desired
results don't come in our lifetimes, they will assuredly come. Take small
bites, and chew them well. The beast is dying every day.
Sorry to have rambled on so long. Bright Blessings!
--
Mark Dyson -- http://www.infinet.com/~corbie
corbie@infinet.com (personal)
mdyson@afit.af.mil (professional)
Hotmail - Read Mail (p216 of
300)
"No rule should be followed off a cliff." -- CJ Cherryh
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:30:56 -0400
From: Corbie
To: "'FIRE:danica@mills.edu'"
Subject: Spelling checkers are your friend?
I carelessly let a mis-spelled instance of "indignance" be changed to
"indigence" in my teapot musings. Sorry about that.
BB!
--
Hotmail - Read Mail (p217 of
300)
Mark Dyson -- http://www.infinet.com/~corbie
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:59:00 PDT
From: phyllis johnpoll
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: The McVeigh Jury issue
There are any number of reasons why the witch wasn't mentioned in the AP
article. One of them is that she may have been dismissed and is therefore
no
longer a part of the jury pool. Another is that the press has been asked
not to
make too great an effort to identify the potential jurors to the public
and
they
have no way of knowing how large or small the pagan community in the area
from
which the pool was drawn is. The latter is, of course, ascribing more
common
Hotmail - Read Mail (p218 of
300)
sense to the press than one normally would, but (in the immortal words of
Judy
Tenuta) "It could happen!" (BTW, we're a big community. I have no clue who
this
potential juror was and I get to hear LOTS of gossip.)
FWIW, the Denver news (channel 7 at 5AM at any rate, which is where I get
most
of my TV news) mentioned several of the potential jurors by religion. They
identified all by gender. They identified one by race, even though they
couldn't
see her. (Assumed she was black, I suppose, based on voice, which is
something
else the press needs to deal with.) They reported on some of the
professions.
It's just what the press does, and they were trying, however
ineffectually, to
abide by the judge's rules.
Also FWIW, if this woman was not selected for the jury, it likely has
Hotmail - Read Mail (p219 of
300)
nothing
to
do with her religion aside from her moral objections to the death penalty.
She
said she could set such feelings aside, but I wouldn't blame the lawyers
if
they
didn't take her at her word on this.
*BB*
gypsy
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:18:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sarah E Elsbernd
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
Hotmail - Read Mail (p220 of
300)
> I, myself and other members of ERAL have signed the petition. I have no
> knowledge of it being circulated through FIRE. However several ERAL
> people have.
> I personally believe that the Kathleen Kennedy broadcast of the person's
> religion was irresponsible, igonrant and insentive. As a former jury
> foreperson, it is my sincere hope that personal feelings don't colour
the
> judgement of the jurors, and that they excersize, their verdict
according
> to the LAW and the EVIDENCE admitted on the trial. To do otherwise in
> itself would be a travesty of justice
>
Insensitive and irresponsible as it may have been...I agree with (Dave B,
I think it was) who first said that this was an opportunity in disguise
for our society to become educated on what being a witch means.
I must insert my two cents and say it would have been better if we could
have turned the situation to this use, rather than the result of having
the media ignore her witchiness.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p221 of
300)
but, in the end, I think that decision rests with the witch actually on
the jury...not the rest of us watching from the sidelines. Or, perhaps
the petition messed up her efforts to inform the media of our religion??
Something to think about...
Sarah
-=(0)=-
Copyright 1997 Sarah E Elsbernd (usgseex@panther.gsu.edu)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:05:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Heidi M Enzweiler
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:24:53 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "David R. Burwasser"
Hotmail - Read Mail (p222 of
300)
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
>
> > From: FIRE
> > To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
> > Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
> >
> > we need to find out whether they were
> > scared by the CNN petition before accusing the petitioners of causing
> > media silence.
>
> IMHO this statement takes the first step toward denial and compulsive
> repetition. We are ready to attribute all sorts of fallout to the words
> "self-proclaimed" but are going to demand evidentiary-level proof that
we
> may have shot ourselves in the foot.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p223 of
300)
>
> This is not the first time around for this kind of hubris. Eg, the
> women's movement has never come to terms with the enormous blunder of
the
> suffragists in helping saddle this country with Prohibition, or of the
> boost the feminist anti-pornography movement gave to the moralists of
the
> Reagan Administration. We need to live with our goofs or we will make
> many, many more.
>
> The PD story was an AP wire profile of the jury pool, authored by
Michael
> Fleeman and edited I know not how much by the PD. It covered the jurors
> in several dimensions -- race, education, military ties, etc --
including:
>
> << RELIGION: Almost all the [juror] candidates said they were religious.
> Most were either Roman Catholic or Lutheran. >>
>
> There we aren't again. Those with AP insider-hood can take it from
Hotmail - Read Mail (p224 of
300)
there.
>
> And just what the *hell* do we run about with petitions for, if we
> expect them to have no effect?
>
> BB -- dB
>
Personally, I think the effect of the petitions at least acknowledges our
existence. The theory is that if you get enough people making a noise
about something over a long period of time, then somebody is bound to take
notice. We will not remain silent and we will make ourselves heard.
Because we are a religious minority it will be a long time before we are
accepted by the Christian community, but as long as we use our voices we
will not be subdued.
Blessed Be-
Heidi E.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p225 of
300)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:37:27 -0700
From: Shannon Jenkins
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
[The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set]
[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
Here is a letter I sent to Dr. Laura. It is a rough draft, but give me
any comments you may have, please.
April 20, 1997
Hotmail - Read Mail (p226 of
300)
Transmitted by Facsimile to: (213) 487-6678
Dr. Laura Schlessinger
P.O. Box 2828
Hollywood, CA 90078
RE: Your radio broadcast of April 18,1997.
Dear Ms. Schlessinger:
For several months now I have been listening to your program. Until
Friday, April 18, 1997, I believed you to be extremely well educated.
On this date, you had a 16 year old boy on who was struggling with his
religion. This boy had indicated to you that he was a Roman Catholic
and had been for many years, but had recently began to look at Buddhism
as another possible alternative. He had been studying up on Buddhism
and felt that this religion would have more to offer him then
Hotmail - Read Mail (p227 of
300)
Catholicism. He indicated that the reason he felt the need for a change
was that his sense of spirituality had slipped from him and that
Buddhism was becoming more appealing to him in that sense. The boy
stated that Buddhism seemed to help him become in touch more with
himself than Catholicism.
For about four (4) minutes I listened to you put words into this
caller^s mouth arguing that he didn^t know enough about the religion
(Catholicism) to make a decision either way and that just because he
wasn^t getting what he was praying for from God, didn^t mean he needed
to change religions (that is NOT what he said, that is a perfect example
of you putting words in his mouth). After saying to myself that you
were trying to help to choose a religion for this boy, you said "I am
not trying to sway your decision one way or another". However, that is
EXACTLY how it appeared to me. Don^t you preach yourself that religion
is a personal thing and should be chosen by the individual? In
addition, even if he DIDN^T know enough about the Catholic religion
(after only 16 years), isn^t it his perrogative to study and search
other religions?
Hotmail - Read Mail (p228 of
300)
In addition, you indicated that if he (or any one else) became Buddhist,
they would "be no better than the Pagans who think that by burning a
little incense and killing three chickens, they will get what they
want." This was a very ignorant statement, coming from a woman who
claims to be (and I believed to be) so well-educated. I happen to be
Pagan (Wiccan following an Egyptian tradition) and I have never killed a
thing in prayer. (FYI The rituals/magick I perform serve virtually the
same purpose as Christian do when they pray). If you are referring to a
particular Pagan religion such as Voodoo or Santeria, you it is my
opinion that you should state so, and not generalize. There are many
traditions of Paganism, such as there are many Christian traditions.
You can (and should) educate yourself a little further if you intend on
commenting on the Pagan religion again. It is detrimental to Pagans
(and any religion really) to be in a public position such as yourself
and not have true and correct knowledge of a subject that you intend to
address.
For the time being, I would like to give you some web page addresses:
Hotmail - Read Mail (p229 of
300)
http://www.oocities.org/Athens/Acropolis/7157/palsWAhp.htm (this is my
site for the Washington State Pagan Awareness League).
http://members.aol.com/Palweb/pal.htm (the National Site for the Pagan
Awareness League).
http://www.witchvox.com (the National Site for the Witches Voice).
These are only a few, but all of these pages have links to tons of pages
dedicated to educating the public on Paganism and their various
traditions, including Buddhism. If you would like book referrals or
literature from the Pagan Awareness League, contact me at the address
below.
I am also attaching a post that I have made to several mailing lists
here on the net regarding this broadcast for your reference.
I hope that you realize the error you have made by making those cruel,
uneducated remarks and will consider the possibility of discussing the
topic of religious freedom & tolerance on an up-coming show.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p230 of
300)
Thank you in addition for your attention to this matter. If you have
any questions or concerns, please don^t hesitate to email me at:
rabbit1@gte.net.
Blessed Be!
Shannon A. Jenkins
Washington State Coordinator for the Pagan Awareness League
Please mail me with any input you have before I send this out. Thank
you all. (and thank you Craig for responding so quickly)
Kat
Hotmail - Read Mail (p231 of
300)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:36:57 EDT
From: Harrill D Heath
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: The McVeigh Jury issue
For what ever reason there is no need to make a big thing out of this .I
for one thing that the woman whether she was picked or not stood up and
was counted. I know that not all people can come out of the closet at
this time , but I think it's great when they do.
Blessed Be
Hotmail - Read Mail (p232 of
300)
Dream Fox
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 04:28:06 -0800
From: Morgaine LaFey
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re(2): FIRE: Successful protest?
In response to Mel Fleming's comments:
I forwarded the petition from ERAL to FIRE. First of all, it was marked
"okay
to forward." Second, I felt that it was my responsibility as the ERAL
liaison
to forward anything appropriate (and marked "okay to forward"). People
could
Hotmail - Read Mail (p233 of
300)
choose to disregard it, or sign it and pass it on. I still feel that
mentioning a juror's religion (any juror's religion) is completely
irrelevant
to any judicial proceeding. And I agree completely with the earlier
comment
that this may well be used by McVeigh's attorneys to attempt a declaration
of
mistrial.
People can choose to agree or disagree with any decision made by anyone
else.
I think that one of the things that makes the pagan community wonderful is
that we stand up for our own opinions rather than following along like
sheep.
BB,
Morgaine
--
Hotmail - Read Mail (p234 of
300)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 14:10:50
From: "Skip, Josie, Julie, or Jenny"
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
Kat,
>In addition, you indicated that if he (or any one else) became Buddhist,
>they would "be no better than the Pagans who think that by burning a
>little incense and killing three chickens, they will get what they
>want."
Good Grief, she really said that?
Personally, I can't understand her popularity, other than the fact that
far too
many folks "out there" seem to want a "mommy" to tell them what to do
rather
than thinking for themselves - which is why traditional religion, IMHO, is
so
Hotmail - Read Mail (p235 of
300)
popular.
Good letter. I doubt she'll pay any attention to it because she seems to
feel
that she already knows everything, but it would be great if she did.
She is "anti-choice" so maybe she's Catholic or a "recovering" Catholic
who is
not quite comfortable with the split.
Good for you for calling it to her attention.
BTW, "Buffy" showed the "witch" episode again. My daughters let me know
so I
could watch it myself and we all ended up in a huge fight over it because,
even
though they think my chosen path is "cool" they couldn't understand what
the
big deal was: it's just "entertainment" to them. Thank you Hollywood.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p236 of
300)
"Outlaw Pussycat"
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:05:43 -0600
From: Cameron Baer
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Re: The McVeigh Jury issue
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:36:57 EDT
>From: Harrill D Heath
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Re: The McVeigh Jury issue
>
>For what ever reason there is no need to make a big thing out of this .I
>for one thing that the woman whether she was picked or not stood up and
>was counted. I know that not all people can come out of the closet at
>this time , but I think it's great when they do.
>
>
Hotmail - Read Mail (p237 of
300)
>Blessed Be
>
>Dream Fox
i Think It Will Be A Great Time When Paganism Will Be Regarded As All The
Peaceful Religions It Is.
Blessed Be!
cbaer@nscds.pvt.k12.il.us
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: slutsrus@echonyc.com
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
>Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:37:27 -0700
Hotmail - Read Mail (p238 of
300)
>From: Shannon Jenkins
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
>
>Here is a letter I sent to Dr. Laura. It is a rough draft, but give me
>any comments you may have, please.
>
That was a very good letter, and I'm going to write one of my own.
I should mention, however, that we need to keep in mind where Dr.
Schlesinger is coming from. According to my mom-in-law (future), she is a
fairly recent convert to Orthodox Judaism. One of the biggest "deals" in
Judaism, particularly the Orthodox kind, is the fact that they are NOT
pagan. (little "p" because they aren't refering to our path, just a
generic
kind of polytheism) I can't imagine Dr. S. would have the slightest idea
that Paganism was anything other than that which is mentioned in the Torah
as "idolatry." Educating her probably won't change her opinion, but hey,
we
might as well try.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p239 of
300)
I do think her knocking Buddhism was much worse--especially since it is
even less "idolatrous" than Judaism, as it doesn't even personify God in
-any- way, and Catholicism was the religion behind the Spanish
Inquisition,
arguably the first Jewish holocaust. Ah, well. So much for orthodoxy.
Shalom and blessed be,
Jennifer Hunter
******
Disclaimer: Although the e-mail account from which I am writing belongs to
my employer, the opinions I express are ENTIRELY my own!
******
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:11:25 -0600
From: Cameron Baer
To: FIRE
Hotmail - Read Mail (p240 of
300)
Subject: Re(2): FIRE: Successful protest?
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 04:28:06 -0800
>From: Morgaine LaFey
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Re(2): FIRE: Successful protest?
>
>In response to Mel Fleming's comments:
>
>I forwarded the petition from ERAL to FIRE. First of all, it was marked
"okay
>to forward." Second, I felt that it was my responsibility as the ERAL
liaison
>to forward anything appropriate (and marked "okay to forward"). People
could
>choose to disregard it, or sign it and pass it on. I still feel that
>mentioning a juror's religion (any juror's religion) is completely
irrelevant
>to any judicial proceeding. And I agree completely with the earlier
comment
Hotmail - Read Mail (p241 of
300)
>that this may well be used by McVeigh's attorneys to attempt a
declaration of
>mistrial.
>
>People can choose to agree or disagree with any decision made by anyone
else.
>I think that one of the things that makes the pagan community wonderful
is
>that we stand up for our own opinions rather than following along like
sheep.
>
>BB,
>Morgaine
>
>
>--
If Someone Could Tell Me Where To Find This Petition I Would Love To Sign
It.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p242 of
300)
Blessed Be!
cbaer@nscds.pvt.k12.il.us
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:04:59 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:18:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Sarah E Elsbernd
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
>
Hotmail - Read Mail (p243 of
300)
> > I, myself and other members of ERAL have signed the petition. I have
no
> > knowledge of it being circulated through FIRE. However several ERAL
> > people have.
> > I personally believe that the Kathleen Kennedy broadcast of the
person's
> > religion was irresponsible, igonrant and insentive. As a former jury
> > foreperson, it is my sincere hope that personal feelings don't colour
the
> > judgement of the jurors, and that they excersize, their verdict
according
> > to the LAW and the EVIDENCE admitted on the trial. To do otherwise in
> > itself would be a travesty of justice
> >
> Insensitive and irresponsible as it may have been...I agree with (Dave
B,
> I think it was) who first said that this was an opportunity in disguise
> for our society to become educated on what being a witch means.
>
> I must insert my two cents and say it would have been better if we could
Hotmail - Read Mail (p244 of
300)
> have turned the situation to this use, rather than the result of having
> the media ignore her witchiness...
>
> but, in the end, I think that decision rests with the witch actually on
> the jury...not the rest of us watching from the sidelines. Or, perhaps
> the petition messed up her efforts to inform the media of our religion??
>
> Something to think about...
>
> Sarah
>
> -=(0)=-
> Copyright 1997 Sarah E Elsbernd (usgseex@panther.gsu.edu)
>
>
> I am the person who write this original letter
many blessings,
Mel J. Fleming II,Rev
Hotmail - Read Mail (p245 of
300)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:46:13 EDT
From: Harrill D Heath
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
I think that you have done a fine job with the letter . Don't change a
thing.
Blessed Be
Dream Fox
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:46:13 EDT
From: Harrill D Heath
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Successful protest?
Hotmail - Read Mail (p246 of
300)
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:31:41 -0700 (PDT) FIRE writes:
>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:05:30 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Heidi M Enzweiler
>To: FIRE
>Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
>On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:24:53 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: "David R. Burwasser"
>> To: FIRE
>> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
>>
>> > From: FIRE
Hotmail - Read Mail (p247 of
300)
>> > To: "Danica M. Nuccitelli"
>> > Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>> >
>> > we need to find out whether they were
>> > scared by the CNN petition before accusing the petitioners of
>causing
>> > media silence.
>>
>> IMHO this statement takes the first step toward denial and
>compulsive
>> repetition. We are ready to attribute all sorts of fallout to the
>words
>> "self-proclaimed" but are going to demand evidentiary-level proof
>that we
>> may have shot ourselves in the foot.
>>
>> This is not the first time around for this kind of hubris. Eg, the
>> women's movement has never come to terms with the enormous blunder
>of the
>> suffragists in helping saddle this country with Prohibition, or of
Hotmail - Read Mail (p248 of
300)
>the
>> boost the feminist anti-pornography movement gave to the moralists
>of the
>> Reagan Administration. We need to live with our goofs or we will
>make
>> many, many more.
>>
>> The PD story was an AP wire profile of the jury pool, authored by
>Michael
>> Fleeman and edited I know not how much by the PD. It covered the
>jurors
>> in several dimensions -- race, education, military ties, etc --
>including:
>>
>> << RELIGION: Almost all the [juror] candidates said they were
>religious.
>> Most were either Roman Catholic or Lutheran. >>
>>
>> There we aren't again. Those with AP insider-hood can take it from
>there.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p249 of
300)
>>
>> And just what the *hell* do we run about with petitions for, if we
>> expect them to have no effect?
>>
>> BB -- dB
>>
>Personally, I think the effect of the petitions at least acknowledges
>our
>existence. The theory is that if you get enough people making a noise
>about something over a long period of time, then somebody is bound to
>take
>notice. We will not remain silent and we will make ourselves heard.
>Because we are a religious minority it will be a long time before we
>are
>accepted by the Christian community, but as long as we use our voices
>we
>will not be subdued.
>
>Blessed Be-
>
Hotmail - Read Mail (p250 of
300)
>Heidi E.
>
>
I agree that we should stand up for our rights , but as a High Priestess
told me a few days ago " We proclaim ourselves witches every day . At
least the ones of us that can be public . " and I am public about my
religion.
Blessed Be
Dream Fox
Hotmail - Read Mail (p251 of
300)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:02:39 EDT
From: Carolyn E Cason
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) FIRE writes:
>Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:37:27 -0700
>From: Shannon Jenkins
>To: danica@mills.edu
>Subject: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
>These are only a few, but all of these pages have links to tons of
>pages
>dedicated to educating the public on Paganism and their various
>traditions, including Buddhism.
BUDDHISM IS NOT A PAGAN RELIGION!!!!! I would strongly encourage you to
reword this statment before you send this letter. Perhaps you could say
something like "These are only a few, but all of these pages have links
to tons of pages dedicated to educating the public on Paganism and other
Hotmail - Read Mail (p252 of
300)
non-traditional/non-western religions."
Carolyn :)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:48:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dryades@aol.com
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: FIRE: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
How ironic that Dr Laura is making such harsh judgements on people
struggle
with religion, considering she recently went throught what she called a
"spritual crisis". Hmmm
Blessed Be
Jenn
Hotmail - Read Mail (p253 of
300)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: TimKeene@aol.com
To: rds8417@omega.uta.edu, Lisette.Burwasser@oberlin.edu
Cc: tkeene@tenet.edu, cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org,
danica@mills.edu,
shontz@uthscsa.edu
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
In a message dated 97-04-21 18:22:24 EDT, rds8417@omega.uta.edu (RED)
writes:
<<
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, David R. Burwasser wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Tim Keene wrote:
>
> > [I]f there are groups of adult males, tying up the
> > library's computers for hours to look at pornographic pictures, and
Hotmail - Read Mail (p254 of
300)
other
> > users are complaining that they cannot access the Internet to do
> > legitimate research, what do you do?
>
> Enforce on-line time limits on everyone.
>
> BB -- dB
> >>
In a message dated 97-04-18 13:30:07 EDT, Lisette.Burwasser@oberlin.edu
(David R. Burwasser) writes:
<<
Doesn't anyone in the astrophysics dodge study the classics any more?
Blessed be,
Dave Burwasser
>>
In a message dated 97-04-19 17:02:06 EDT, Dave P writes:
Hotmail - Read Mail (p255 of
300)
<<
I hate to tell you guys, this Mind-Body Dualism stuff is actually Pagan,
and was in general Pagan practice at the end of late Antiquity.
Doesn't anybody read Plato anymore ?
>>
>>
OK, here's one for all the librarians out there: Do you find that the
classics are gathering dust on the shelves while your patrons are all
queueing up to the computers?
Hail Eris!
Phool
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:45:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Margaret A Joseph
To: TimKeene@aol.com
Hotmail - Read Mail (p256 of
300)
Cc: rds8417@omega.uta.edu, Lisette.Burwasser@oberlin.edu,
tkeene@tenet.edu,
cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org, danica@mills.edu,
shontz@uthscsa.edu
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 TimKeene@aol.com wrote:
> OK, here's one for all the librarians out there: Do you find that the
> classics are gathering dust on the shelves while your patrons are all
> queueing up to the computers?
>
> Hail Eris!
> Phool
Dear Phool,
It's not so much the classics that are gathering dust. They are still
read. I do think (anecdotal evidence only) that fewer people are reading
serious contemporary fiction for pleasure and are more likely to watch TV
Hotmail - Read Mail (p257 of
300)
or surf the net than read. There is still demand for books among students
at the university where I work. However, maybe if our computers were
state of the art instead of the obsolete clunkers they are . . . . ;->
Maggi
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mary Ellen Zippel
To: Margaret A Joseph
Cc: TimKeene@aol.com, rds8417@omega.uta.edu,
Lisette.Burwasser@oberlin.edu,
tkeene@tenet.edu, cuups-l@uua.org, cuups-usa@efn.org,
danica@mills.edu,
shontz@uthscsa.edu
Subject: Re: There goes Ohio
Hotmail - Read Mail (p258 of
300)
I am a working public librarian, and I can say that I have a classics
section which we have created (in paperback) to answer the demand and,
also, because the classics are no longer offered in attractive hardcover
any more: which over time exceeds the popular fiction in circulation
statistics.
We have a centrally displayed location. We keep it fresh. We talk it out.
Mab T
On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Margaret A Joseph wrote:
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:11:56 -0400
From: Chad ~Falcon~
To: FIRE
Subject: re: Fire
Greetings Naudvia.
Do you have any proof of such an organization, and news reports of
who
has
Hotmail - Read Mail (p259 of
300)
been killed? I've asked around and haven't come up with any proof, and
have
been told that there's no credibility to the rumours. I'd just like to
know
more.
Thank you.
Brightest Blessings.
Chad ~Falcon~
Knowledge is Power, Learn it at ALL costs.
http://www.oocities.org/Area51/Vault/4825
>Return-Path: danica@mills.edu
>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:57:20 -0800 (PST)
>From: FIRE
>To: "Undisclosed.recipients":;
>Subject: FIRE: Fwd: warning~THIS IS NOT A CHAIN LETTER (fwd)
>
> This has been going around....
Hotmail - Read Mail (p260 of
300)
>
> -----------------
> Forwarded Message:
> Subj: warning
> Date: 97-03-11 00:10:49 EST
>
>**Forward this to ALL Wiccans you know**
>
>There are groups scattered throughout the United States hunting Wiccans.
All
>Wiccans need to be aware of it and take heed to this warning. I do not
say
>this to frighten people, but to make them more conscious towards these
>events. Many have been killed and many more will be. The killings
through
>the United States are all linked and all done by the same main group.
> Wiccans need to be careful in what they do and you all need to watch
your
>backs for a while. I suggest that a protection spell be done by as many
as
Hotmail - Read Mail (p261 of
300)
>possible until this situation gets under control. If you have ANY
questions
>or comments about this, E-Mail me. Especially if you have any updates.
> Thank you and be careful.
>
>Blessed Be,
>Naudvia
>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:40:07 -0400
From: Lowell & Nancy McFarland
To: FIRE
Cc: mcfarlan@mail1.nai.net
Subject: Beltain Notice at Philadelphia Inquirer
"Earth-Based Beltaine, or May Day. Midway between spring equinox and
summer solstice. One of Earth-based spiritualities' four
Hotmail - Read Mail (p262 of
300)
``cross-quarter'' days that celebrate cycles of life. Occasion for
bonfires by local gatherings."
The Philadelphia, PA., USA., Online Newspaper, made the above Beltain
announcement in its April 27- May 3, Interfaith Calendar in its
Lifestyle Section.
http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/97/Apr/27/lifestyle/RCAL27.htm#Beltaine
While Celts and Pagans have recently been very successful in answering
negative and intolerant media comments, replying to positive (however
meagre) notices is probably just as important.
I will be writing/posting to the following persons at the Philadelphia
Inquirer to thank them for their Beltain notice and to add to their
Beltain commentary.
Philladelphia Inquirer addresses
Maxwell King, Editor
Gene Foreman, Deputy Editor
Lisa Beckman, Public Affairs Editor
Philadelphia Inquirer
Hotmail - Read Mail (p263 of
300)
400 North Broad Street
Philadelphia, PA 19130 [USA]
Telephone 215 854 2000
Public Affairs 215 854 5500
Loch Sloy!
Lowell McFarland mcfarlan@ct1.nai.net
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 04:46:49 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
Hotmail - Read Mail (p264 of
300)
> From: slutsrus@echonyc.com
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Action: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
>
> >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:37:27 -0700
> >From: Shannon Jenkins
> >To: danica@mills.edu
> >Subject: Dr. Laura Radio Broadcast
> >
> >Here is a letter I sent to Dr. Laura. It is a rough draft, but give me
> >any comments you may have, please.
> That was a very good letter, and I'm going to write one of my own.
>
> I should mention, however, that we need to keep in mind where Dr.
> Schlesinger is coming from. According to my mom-in-law (future), she is
a
> fairly recent convert to Orthodox Judaism. One of the biggest "deals" in
> Judaism, particularly the Orthodox kind, is the fact that they are NOT
> pagan. (little "p" because they aren't refering to our path, just a
Hotmail - Read Mail (p265 of
300)
generic
> kind of polytheism) I can't imagine Dr. S. would have the slightest idea
> that Paganism was anything other than that which is mentioned in the
Torah
> as "idolatry." Educating her probably won't change her opinion, but hey,
we
> might as well try.
>
> I do think her knocking Buddhism was much worse--especially since it is
> even less "idolatrous" than Judaism, as it doesn't even personify God in
> -any- way, and Catholicism was the religion behind the Spanish
Inquisition,
> arguably the first Jewish holocaust. Ah, well. So much for orthodoxy.
> Shalom and blessed be,
> Jennifer Hunter
>
> ******
> Disclaimer: Although the e-mail account from which I am writing belongs
to
> my employer, the opinions I express are ENTIRELY my own!
Hotmail - Read Mail (p266 of
300)
> ******
> However it is indeed a great diservice to the human community, when
someone as renown as Dr. Laura Schlesinger would discredit any faith
system, with which she expresses her disapproval withy such ad-hominem
discourse.
Being a person who works in the field of psychology, she must realize the
potential confusion she left that young adult in. I hope she read and
will respond to the letter.
Many blessings.
Mel J. Fleming II,Rev, DragonQuest Circle
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:18:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Cecylyna Brightsword
To: FIRE , eracl
Subject: _Chicago Tribune_ Wicca in prison article - 4/28/97 (fwd)
Got this one from the folks who run the Chicago Pagan FAQ. I was quite
happy at the coverage - it presents us as a minority faith, but a
legitimate one. The web page is www.chicago.tribune.com, if we want to
Hotmail - Read Mail (p267 of
300)
write 'thank you' letters - I suspect we'll see results from rewarding
positive press as much as we are seeing from complaining about negative.
Bright blessings,
Cecylyna Brightsword..................................Suzanne Egbert
HPS, Thalia Clan * Mommybeing * Computer geek
http://www.oocities.org/Athens/9802/indiana.html
The Indiana Pagan Resources Page
---------- Forwarded message ----------
++++
1 FATE, BUT MANY FAITHS IN PRISON
By Terry Wilson, Tribune Staff Writer
Web-posted Sunday, April 27, 1997; 6:01 a.m. CDT
Hotmail - Read Mail (p268 of
300)
Dateline: MICHIGAN CITY, Ind.
Fifteen men, united in prison by convictions for
murder and related transgressions, file into a simple cinderblock room
with light blue walls to learn about "inner peace."
They sit cross-legged in their stocking feet on
fabric cushions placed in three straight rows on the floor, attentively
measuring a visiting instructor's every word. At Indiana State Prison,
inner peace is about as rare as a steak dinner.
"See your body sitting," says the visitor, Chuen
Phangcham, a monk from the Thai Buddhist Temple of Chicago in southwest
suburban Bridgeview.
"Observe your breath as you breathe in and breathe
out." (A phone rings in a hallway, but no one stirs.)
For two hours each month, this religious experience
allows the inmates to escape the tense vigilance they rely on to survive
at this maximum-security penitentiary.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p269 of
300)
"I find peace here," says Kerry Greenwell, 37, who
is serving a 60-year sentence for murder. "It is something I can use in
my life. I've tried some of the other religions, but I found they didn't
do
anything for me."
Prisons long have been fertile ground for Christian
ministers and lay people looking to fulfill the biblical mandate to spread
the gospel. But today, in a development that mirrors a surging interest in
spirituality across the nation, a growing number of faiths have attracted
the
attention of the captive audiences who reside behind bars. Whether as an
antidote to
boredom or a means to personal enrichment, the trend is not only changing
prison life but creating challenges for authorities.
That may range from ruling on whether a
self-professed Druid is entitled to vegetarian meals or a Wicca follower
can have a crystal ball.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p270 of
300)
Given the growing number of inmates nationwide
serving life sentences, coupled with escalating violence and gang
problems, the proliferation of religious pursuits is seen as a calming
influence--or at least a diversion from the tension, officials say.
At the same time, officials have been forced to
develop official bodies to sort through inmate requests and balance
federal protections for prisoners' rights to free religious expression
against the institution's security demands.
In Illinois, a 14-member Religious Practices
Advisory Board has fielded 150 inquiries from inmates over the past 18
months.
"We take every request seriously," said Nadine
Abrahams, chairman of the Illinois Department of Corrections' advisory
board. "Even if it looks bizarre--and we have had bizarre ones."
Case in point: The inmate who considers himself a
Hotmail - Read Mail (p271 of
300)
druid, an adherent to a Celtic religious order active in Britain, Ireland
and France back in Neolithic times, wanted vegetarian meals, Abrahams
said. His request was denied after a member of the advisory board located
a representative of the faith and learned that vegetarianism is not
required of worshipers, she said.
Often the inmates' search for divine truth is
sincere, the result of heartfelt remorse or a desire to find meaning in
their lives. Other times, the inmates are simply gunning for special
privileges, like the right to choose their cellmates.
Either way, chaplains from Indiana and Illinois
prisons say they have seen more interest in spiritual matters in recent
years.
In Indiana, prison officials have identified nine
overarching religions, and each has a number of sub-faiths. In Illinois,
prison
officials count 36 active faiths. Besides the traditional religions, there
are
Hotmail - Read Mail (p272 of
300)
inmates who espouse white supremacist beliefs as part of their faith and a
group of Satanists.
"When they reach the bottom of the barrel, what else
is there to do?" asks Chaplain William Babb of the Indiana State Prison at
Michigan City. "They have lost their family, their friends. They have lost
everything. For some, it marks the first time they have been exposed to
religion, where they were willing to listen."
Chaplain Gerald Miller of the Shawnee Correctional
Center in Downstate Illinois said that about 10 percent of the
institution's 1,800 inmates attend organized worship services, but far
more go to informal Bible-study sessions that are held frequently in the
cellblocks.
In Indiana, chaplains and assistant superintendents
decide which faiths can meet in the chapel and when. Sometimes appeals of
those decisions are ruled on by the corrections department's statewide
religious adviser.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p273 of
300)
In Illinois, Abrahams said, a member of the Church
of Wicca asked for robes, a crystal ball and candles. And members of a
white supremacist faith have argued that they should not have to share
cells with members of other races.
In the end, the latter requests were rejected.
Abrahams said representatives with the Church of Wicca agreed that a clean
outfit worn only during times of prayer and drawings or photographs of
candles would suffice.
The supremacists filed suit and lost.
The African Hebrew Israelites requested molasses,
sesame seeds, sea kelp and yeast, but their plea was turned down. They
were
accorded a "nutritionally adequate" vegetarian diet, officials
explained. The system's only Taoist is allowed a vegetarian diet.
Although Illinois has a long tradition in allowing
religious freedom for its inmates, Indiana prisoners won the right about
Hotmail - Read Mail (p274 of
300)
20
years ago, when Muslims threatened to sue in order to assemble,
authorities
said. Knowing it would lose in court, the Indiana prison system began
permitting
Muslims and other faiths to congregate.
Today, Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Native American,
Jewish and Buddhist volunteers meet with prisoners at the Michigan City
facility, though it is hard for inmates to get volunteers from different
faiths
to visit all prisons in the system.
Officials say religious teaching, when it is taken
seriously, helps focus inmates' attention and energy in a positive
direction.
Sincere inmates have been known to distance themselves from gangs and
trouble.
So when 30 men said they wanted to learn about
Hotmail - Read Mail (p275 of
300)
Buddhism at Indiana State Prison, officials eventually agreed.
"It diffuses the men," said Chaplain Babb, whose job
is to meet the spiritual needs of inmates of various faiths. "They can get
all keyed up. When they get in there to worship their creator, that
literally
takes the tension off."
For the men who sit in on Phangcham's meditations,
many of whom will probably spend the better part of their lives under
lock and key, there are moments of freedom, if only in their minds.
"I feel better after I've cleared my head of all the
things that trouble me all day--the loneliness, the depression from being
here," said Dirk Robinson, 25, who is serving a 50-year sentence for
murder.
Phangcham, 55, presides over the Buddhist Council of
the Midwest and has been teaching the inmates about Buddhism and leading
meditation sessions at the Indiana State Prison for three years.
Hotmail - Read Mail (p276 of
300)
"To get peace of mind is something you can get
anywhere--in a prison, in a cave, in a mansion, in a house, everywhere,"
Phangcham said. "If the mind is clear, if the mind is free and
independent, then we are free. Then we are happy."
--
---------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Benner ***** email: pagan@ebenner.com
voiceline (708) 799-6474
Midwestern U.S. Pagan FAQ: http://www.ebenner.com/pagan
Covenant of the Goddess, Greater Chicagoland Area Local Council:
http://www.ebenner.com/chicog
Aglaian Triad of Wicca: http://www.ebenner.com/aglaian
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:13:35 PDT
From: phyllis johnpoll
Hotmail - Read Mail (p277 of
300)
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: FIRE: Polgergeist: The Legacy
Is anyone else a fan of this show? I was until last night. Have sent them
a
letter via e-mail at their site at
http://www.thelegacy.com/
Unfortunately, Hotmail won't let me upload the message.
Suffice it to say the episode made the Buffy witch episode look like a
pleasant
little excursion into fairy land. I am really upset with MGM over this. I
knew
the show had Christian overtones, but didn't know how many stereotypes
they
were
going to glorify to get their point across. (My husband also noticed that
the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p278 of
300)
only Christian group they seem to like is the Roman Catholics. This
pisses him
off a bit, since he was raised Protestant and thinks both kinds of
Christians
are worthy of contempt - needless to say he never did like this show and
now
likes it a whole lot less!) (I'm the tolerant one in my family......)
Hopefully, Hotmail will decide that this is worthy of being sent, and FIRE
will
decide to actually receive it!
*BB*
gypsy
who isn't usually the type to send nasty-grams to Hollywood producers, but
when
they started to equate feminism with satanic ritual abuse she about
exploded!
(Watch the rerun with tranqulizers handy.....)
Hotmail - Read Mail (p279 of
300)
************************************************************
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:07:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Grotonwitc@aol.com
To: LCorncalen@aol.com
Subject: ADDENDUM to Memorial Services at C of P
*** The following is an addendum to my recent mailing regarding our plans
to
hold memorial services honoring Witches, Pagans and members of other
Earth-centered religions who have served in their nation's military:
*** PLEASE FORWARD ***
WADL-New England and AppleMoon Coven & Teaching Grove are looking for
fellow
Witches, Pagans and members of other Earth-centered religions living in
Boston's Metrow West area, and southern New Hampshire - especially those
living close to Groton, MA and Rindge, NH - who would like to volunteer
Hotmail - Read Mail (p280 of
300)
labor
and resources toward planning and hosting the earlier-mentioned memorial
services at Cathedral of the Pines in Rindge, NH. AppleMoon and
WADL-New
England are based in Groton, MA (midway between Lowell and Fitchburg).
Groton is approximately an hour's drive from Boston and an additional 35
to
40 minutes to the Cathedral in Rindge, NH.
Please contact me by phone or e-mail ASAP if you can lend any help.
Entertainers able to provide sacred music to weave into the ritual are
especially welcome. If any Witches, Pagans, etc who presently serve in
the
military or did so in the past and would be willing to attend in uniform
to
provide an honor guard, please get in touch as soon as you can. For those
coming from a distance: We are unable to pay travel costs, but we can
serve
as a clearing house to provide crash space. Naturally we will also be in
desperate need of volunteers living within commutting distance of the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p281 of
300)
Cathedral to provide food and shelter during their brief sojourn with us.
Everyone, please help in whateve way you can. Our memorial services
will be open for members of ALL spiritual and philosophical paths to
attend.
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:38:58 EDT
From: Carolyn E Cason
To: dinstuhls@juno.com, rjevanoff@juno.com, danica@mills.edu,
djessop@gte.net, ogham@prickly-wombat.com, woodenstuff@juno.com
Subject: THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
The following was forwarded to me by a relative. I thought some of you
out there would enjoy this. Carolyn :)
A question for only the deepest philosophers:
Hotmail - Read Mail (p282 of
300)
if a man talks in the forest and there
is no woman to hear him, is he still
wrong?
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:09:34 -0500
From: Carrison
To: FIRE
Subject: Buffy
Just wanted to let you all know that they had a character who
played
a high school computer science teacher, who was a 'Techno-Pagan' and they
had to turn to her in order to get the demon bound. Just thought it was
neat that she said, " There are more of us than you think." (approx. quote
but you get the idea). She ended up having to contact people she knew
over
the net to form a cyber-net circle.
I know some of you might say "Yeh, but they still stereo-typed the witch
Hotmail - Read Mail (p283 of
300)
image." True, but sometimes it's easier to get people to accept the word
pagan than the word witch, in this society. Maybe they also realised to
that there were people willing to say "Wait, a minute, thats not how every
witch is." etc.
Bye for now.
Dyan
dyan.l.carrison@uwrf.edu
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:27:30 -0500
From: Steven Craig Hickman
Reply-To: shickman@cyberramp.net
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Pagan Federation (of Europe) Conference 1997
[The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set]
Hotmail - Read Mail (p284 of
300)
[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
I'll add this to the Pagan Events list and as a link of the Pagan Links
section
of Earth Wisdom!
"Pagan Federation (of Europe) Conference 1997"
By the way I appreciate the interaction of the list: informative, witty,
intelligent!
Happy Beltane, everyone! Brightest blessings to one and all!
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 04:42:12 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:04:59 -0700
Hotmail - Read Mail (p285 of
300)
> From: mel j fleming II
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
>
> FIRE wrote:
> >
> > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:18:43 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Sarah E Elsbernd
> > To: FIRE
> > Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, FIRE wrote:
> >
> > > I, myself and other members of ERAL have signed the petition. I have
no
> > > knowledge of it being circulated through FIRE. However several ERAL
> > > people have.
> > > I personally believe that the Kathleen Kennedy broadcast of the
person's
> > > religion was irresponsible, igonrant and insentive. As a former jury
Hotmail - Read Mail (p286 of
300)
> > > foreperson, it is my sincere hope that personal feelings don't
colour the
> > > judgement of the jurors, and that they excersize, their verdict
according
> > > to the LAW and the EVIDENCE admitted on the trial. To do otherwise
in
> > > itself would be a travesty of justice
> > >
> > Insensitive and irresponsible as it may have been...I agree with (Dave
B,
> > I think it was) who first said that this was an opportunity in
disguise
> > for our society to become educated on what being a witch means.
> >
> > I must insert my two cents and say it would have been better if we
could
> > have turned the situation to this use, rather than the result of
having
> > the media ignore her witchiness...
> >
Hotmail - Read Mail (p287 of
300)
> > but, in the end, I think that decision rests with the witch actually
on
> > the jury...not the rest of us watching from the sidelines. Or,
perhaps
> > the petition messed up her efforts to inform the media of our
religion??
> >
> > Something to think about...
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > -=(0)=-
> > Copyright 1997 Sarah E Elsbernd (usgseex@panther.gsu.edu)
> >
> >
> > I am the person who write this original letter
> many blessings,
> Mel J. Fleming II,RevThis incident would'nt have hgelped the
Wiccan/Pagan
community in the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p288 of
300)
least. It would have added a further problem to the media circus, it has
become. Anyone who is singled out because of their faith, is subject to
suspicion and ridicule, especially if their beliefs are not considered
part of the" mainstream."
Many blessings,
Mel
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 04:46:08 -0700
From: mel j fleming II
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Buffy
Hotmail - Read Mail (p289 of
300)
FIRE wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:09:34 -0500
> From: Carrison
> To: FIRE
> Subject: Buffy
>
> Just wanted to let you all know that they had a character who
played
> a high school computer science teacher, who was a 'Techno-Pagan' and
they
> had to turn to her in order to get the demon bound. Just thought it was
> neat that she said, " There are more of us than you think." (approx.
quote
> but you get the idea). She ended up having to contact people she knew
over
> the net to form a cyber-net circle.
>
> I know some of you might say "Yeh, but they still stereo-typed the witch
> image." True, but sometimes it's easier to get people to accept the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p290 of
300)
word
> pagan than the word witch, in this society. Maybe they also realised to
> that there were people willing to say "Wait, a minute, thats not how
every
> witch is." etc.
>
> Bye for now.
> Dyan
>
> dyan.l.carrison@uwrf.edu
Buffy is the most absurd television program I've ever seen in my life.
And the Television Ratings agree with me. The last rating for the program
was 3.8. That means that less than 500k people are watching. Buffy will
perish due to a 'rating Stake through its heart.'
Many blessings,
Mel
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 11:32:36 PDT
Hotmail - Read Mail (p291 of
300)
From: phyllis johnpoll
To: DANICA@MILLS.EDU
Subject: FIRE: Buffy
Personally, I kind of like the PG-Files (an affectionate nickname for
"Buffy
the
Vampire Slayer." And I enjoyed the techno-pagan teacher a lot. (I want to
know
where she wears that dangly earring if not in her ear.....)
But a quick glance at the posting board for Buffy at the Ultimate TV site
(not
sure what the URL is) proved to me that the damage control implicit in the
teacher's appearance (the teacher might be a continuing character, BTW.
She
sure
seems interested enough in the Watcher...) is like a double-edged sword.
Apparently, the hardcore fans are incensed about her appearance, using
words
Hotmail - Read Mail (p292 of
300)
like bitch and sleazy to describe her. They have a romantic view of the
Watcher,
as well as of the entire world, that I found downright amusing. I mean,
they
liked his whole speech about how knowledge should have smell, yet they're
discussing this in a computerized forum. At any rate, they responded to
the
whole techno-pagan thing negatively. So I'm left wondering if it was the
good
thing I'd originally assumed it was.
BTW, since Buffy is on UPN, any market share at all might be enough to
encourage
them to renew it. We'll see in the fall, I guess.
*BB*
gypsy
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 12:01:36 PDT
From: phyllis johnpoll
Hotmail - Read Mail (p293 of
300)
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: FIRE: Correction re: Buffy
I stand corrected. It's on the WB, not UPN, and apparently they are
pleased
with
the ratings. Or they were last month.
Has anyone got an opinion as to how the Ellen coming-out episode will
impact
us?
I am asking with great sarcasm. My co-workers seem quite certain there
will be
an impact (I'm REALLY open at work) but no one can explain to me how this
will
happen.....
*BB*
gypsy
Hotmail - Read Mail (p294 of
300)
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 19:32:27 EDT
From: Carolyn E Cason
To: danica@mills.edu
Subject: Re: Buffy
On Thu, 1 May 1997 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT) FIRE writes:
>Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 04:46:08 -0700
>From: mel j fleming II
>To: FIRE
>Subject: Re: FIRE: Buffy
>Buffy is the most absurd television program I've ever seen in my life.
>
>And the Television Ratings agree with me. The last rating for the
>program
>was 3.8. That means that less than 500k people are watching. Buffy
>will
Hotmail - Read Mail (p295 of
300)
>perish due to a 'rating Stake through its heart.'
Many blessings,
>Mel
>
>
Opinions about "Buffy" aside, it was recently agreed by critics, tv
viewers, and pollsters alike, that televisions ratings are not accurate.
Carolyn :)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:21:38 -0800
From: Saphire Mann
To: FIRE
Subject: Re: FIRE: Successful protest?
[The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set]
[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
Hotmail - Read Mail (p296 of
300)
Sara writes and Mel responds:
>> > Insensitive and irresponsible as it may have been...I agree with
(Dave B,
>> > I think it was) who first said that this was an opportunity in
disguise
>> > for our society to become educated on what being a witch means.
>> >
>> > I must insert my two cents and say it would have been better if we
could
>> > have turned the situation to this use, rather than the result of
having
>> > the media ignore her witchiness...
>> >
>> > but, in the end, I think that decision rests with the witch actually
on
>> > the jury...not the rest of us watching from the sidelines. Or,
perhaps
>> > the petition messed up her efforts to inform the media of our
Hotmail - Read Mail (p297 of
300)
religion??
>> >
>> > Something to think about...
>> >
>> > Sarah
>> >
>> > -=(0)=-
>> > Copyright 1997 Sarah E Elsbernd (usgseex@panther.gsu.edu)
(snip)This incident would'nt have hgelped the Wiccan/Pagan community in
the
>least. It would have added a further problem to the media circus, it has
>become. Anyone who is singled out because of their faith, is subject to
>suspicion and ridicule, especially if their beliefs are not considered
>part of the" mainstream."
>Many blessings,
>Mel
The idea would be to take attention OFF the personal issue (i.e. the
jurist
Hotmail - Read Mail (p298 of
300)
is a witch) and put it on the broader, impersonal issue "what is
witchcraft
and why you needn't worry about having witches in your community". This
is
*exactly* what savvy marketeers do when seeking opportunity to generate
positive press for their company/product/service. You just *look* for any
opportunity to say what *you* want to say. Under this scenario it's
almost
irrelevant what the reason for broaching the topic is in the first place.
This approach is EXACTLY what the Revolting Religious Right does when they
use the inflammatory topic of child pornography to then get
Internet-censoring software that (surprise!) includes bans on pagan/witch
sites. Use the opportunity to further your own broad agenda.
Here's my personal two cents: I am more and more convinced of the CRITICAL
necessity for pagans to start operating in broad terms like this. Every
opportunity to pro-actively educate, and counteract all the CRAP out
there,
about witches and pagans MUST be utilized. You gotta figure that there's
plenty of misinformation, accidental, unintended, or intentional, and the
Hotmail - Read Mail (p299 of
300)
only way to deal with it really, is for pagans in general to be active
Public Relations agents individually. Since we don't exactly have one
centralized PR office. :) Cripes, it's almost a friggin' *conspiracy*! ;)
So I strongly believe that we each have to utilize every opportunity to
implement a massive positive agenda of our own.
-Saphire Mann
Back to
the Archive Menu
Email the List