GUN CONTROL pg. 2




BBS: Forum BBS!
Date: 08-25-93 (01:02)             Number: 1056
From:                                        Refer#: NONE
  To:                                          Recvd: NO
Subj: gun laws                       Conf: (65) Politics(W
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EJ>LD:      Ok, the answer, I gather, is no, you do not know what an assault rifle is.  Next question:  Would you care to know what an assault rifle is? (Yes there is a real definition for them).
EJ>
EJ>  What is the "real definition"?

     An Assault rifle is one that has a Select Fire capability, switching from semi-automatic to some form of full-automatic fire and fired a diminished power rifle round.
     Anything that does not have both of these descriptions applicable is not an assault rifle.  There is no such thing as an "assault Pistol".  I don't care what the ATF says.



 BBS: The Nuclear Fish BBS
Date: 09-29-93 (19:14)             Number: 264
From:                                         Refer#: 212
  To: ALL                           Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Gun control                Conf: (2) Civlib
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* Original: FROM:
* Original: TO:   All
* Original: AREA: AEN NEWS
* Forwarded by Linda Thompson
* Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr
* Forwarded at 07:02 on 01-Oct-93

I thought a few of the readers of this base would enjoy this message so, I forwarded it.
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   If we "cave in" and learn to handle guns safely and, if necessary, to defend ourselves with them, we have become...adults. Adults who respect both their own freedom and that of others, and who understand that freedom requires responsibility.  We will have become independent individuals who need not cower behind locked doors while irresponsible hoodlums (and possibly tyrannical governments) roam the streets outside.

   If it comes to a choice between defending yourself violently or perishing peacefully, our government would prefer that we do the latter. And that may be your preference as well.
   And that's your right.  It may be your choice as well.
   It is *not* my choice.
   A government which does not trust me to be a responsible citizen does not deserve *my* trust.  Nor my obedience.  A government which attempts to disarm its citizens will create millions of criminals with a stroke of the pen.
   And make no mistake.  I will be one of them.

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 BBS: The Nuclear Fish BBS
Date: 10-04-93 (00:00)             Number: 390
From:                Refer#: NONE
  To: ALL                           Recvd: NO
Subj: Brady Bill                     Conf: (1) LN Politic
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This message was from __________ to ALL,
originally in conference Civlib
and was forwarded to you by __________.
                    -------------------------
I posted this message about a week ago, and just received a reply from a gentleman questioning me on some of the facts I presented.  Unfortunately I don't remember the gentleman's name and the
message scrolled off my system before I had a chance to reply.  So here is an AMENDED post with referenced documentation added to the points questioned.  I hope I have answered your questions sufficiently, but please reply again if I haven't covered something you doubted.  The added portions are separated with a line of: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~characters!
.     ***************  ALERT! ALERT! ALERT!  ****************

                             09/26/93
          THE BRADY BILL IS COMING IF YOU DON'T STOP IT!

     I've just returned from the GRPC '93 in Arlington, Va. It was a great event.  I received more information than I can assimilate in such a short time, but I wanted to get this out right away.

There is much mis-information in the media about the Brady Bill.

Many people say "What's the big deal about a waiting period anyway?  My state ALREADY has one."  Well if that's the case then  you MAY be aware of all the women who have died at the hands of an  estranged spouse while WAITING for the waiting period to expire, after ordering a firearm for protection, because they feared for  their lives.
     But what you may not know is that written in to the Brady  Bill is a provision that would allow your local sheriff or Chief  of Police or whoever has the jurisdiction to reject your application for trivial reasons.  Let's say he just doesn't like you, or doesn't think people should own guns, or maybe during the background check one of your neighbors gave completely false and negative information about you. Your recourse:  You go to Federal Court before a Judge, and if the derogatory information is not true, yes you will then get approved.
DO YOU THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN IN 7 DAYS OR LESS?!!
And here's the kicker:  YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL RECOURSE TO SUE WHOEVER GAVE THE FALSE INFORMATION IN THE FIRST PLACE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
___from HR 1025 (the Brady Bill)
SECTION 7
       "(7) A chief law enforcement officer or other person responsible for providing criminal history background information pursuant to this subsection shall not be liable in an action at law for damages--
       "(A) for failure to prevent the sale or transfer of a handgun to a person whose receipt or possession of the handgun is unlawful under this section; or
       "(B) for preventing such a sale or transfer to a person who may lawfully receive or possess a handgun.

       "(8) For purposes of this subsection, the term `chief law enforcement officer' means the chief of police, the sheriff, or an equivalent officer or the designee of any such individual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 2) Ammunition ban and/or tax

S.178 which is the ammo ban, S.179 which is the ammo tax of 1000%!
Both are sponsored by Senator Daniel Moynihan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3) Handgun ban
4) Long gun ban

S.653 sponsored by Howard Metzenbaum.  It starts out with some specific semiautomatic rifles (including some .22's) but gives an APPOINTED official the power to add ANY semiautomatic firearm to the list
at a later time!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ 5) Hunting and Fishing ban (that's right Fishing, these people don't want anyone hurting the little fishies.)

~~~~~~ This was Proposition 211(?) which actually got on the ballot as a  referendum in the state of Arizona this year!  It was soundly  defeated thank goodness!  This time.  BTW, I might have the number  of the proposition wrong, but not the content. I was unable to  locate my source file, but perhaps someone in Arizona could provide it.  If you doubt the veracity of this, I WILL follow up  with verification of the number.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~       Can you possibly be comfortable with what  might follow???       --- RyPacker v2.5

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 BBS: The Nuclear Fish BBS
Date: 10-03-93 (20:44)             Number: 83
From:                                         Refer#: 67
  To:                                         Recvd: NO
Subj: Loitering Law                  Conf: (2) Civlib
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    In a message to ____________<02 Oct 93 19:30> ___________ wrote:

 JL> Stephen:
 JL>      Wrong, wrong.
 JL> The purpose of Cannons was to kill people. Who ever knocked down a building with a cannon, unless it   contained people.  The cannon was a product of war. A quick way to kill a lot of people in a hurry..
 JL>     The right to bear arms meant that in 1776, we as a nation had the right to form a standing army, and to bear arms. An army is armed...

    You need to study history and not listen to the politically correct liberals.
    Let's instead listen to what the founders of the country and the authors of the Constitution said.  (Quotes were
    taken from an American Citizens & Lawmen Association publication.)

"No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms.  The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to
keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -
                        Thomas Jefferson

"The said Constitution shall never ben construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United
States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." -- Sam Adams

"The great object is that every man be armed.  Everyone who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry

"Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation." -- James Madison

Those statements are really ambiguous, aren't they?  No, in reality, they couldn't have been any clearer.

 JL>     How many guys that you know need an AK 47 to hunt rabbits?
 JL> An automatic weapon is not nor was ever intended to be a game hunters weapon. Unless your game is people..

And the obvious point is that the founders of the Constitution expected the COMMON PEOPLE to own weapons to protect them from the government.
When the government takes away the weapons, then you'd better fear the government.

Haven't you wondered why the government is in this sudden "gun control frenzy?"

Hitler's and Pol Pot's first speeches were about gun control  Let's listen to some other "authorities" on disarmament.

"...one of the basic conditions for the victory of socialism is the arming of the workers (Communist) and the
disarming of the bourgeoisie (the middle class)."  --  Vladimir I. Lenin

"Governments need armies to protect them against their enslaved and oppressed subjects."  -- Leo Tolstoy, 1893

"If the opposition (citizen) disarms, well and good.  If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." --
                         Joseph Stalin

And finally, in 1990, a female student from Beijing, Red China, described her parents' last words to her:

"Tell the American people never to lose their guns.  As
long as they keep their guns in their hands, what happened
here will never happen there."
Amen.
Think about it. Those are good words to contemplate.
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 BBS: The Nuclear Fish BBS
Date: 10-05-93 (17:24)             Number: 163
From:                   Refer#: NONE
  To: ALL                           Recvd: NO
Subj: Gov. Richards & Guns           Conf: (2) Civlib
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* Forwarded by
* Area : POLITICS (POLITICS)
* From : (Sunday October 03 1993 16:30)
* To   : All
* Subj : Gov. Richards & Guns
TO  FIGHT  CRIME  IN  TEXAS,  "DO  EVERYTHING  YOU  CAN DO"-- EXCEPT DEFEND YOURSELF
On May 11,  the women  of Texas  sent the Texas  Legislature an unmistakable message. Enable police to issue permits to those of us who are professionally trained and certifiably law-abiding, so we can carry a firearm to protect ourselves and our families from criminal attack.

The Texas Legislature  responded, passing the  "Right to Carry" bill by an overwhelming margin.

That same day, noting that  Governor Ann Richards threatened to veto the bill, the women of Texas extended Richards an invitation to leave her armed guards and  protective walls and walk in the shoes of defenseless crime victims.

She refused.

In the shadow of her system  that releases 150 criminals a day, Governor Richard's  veto of  self-defense widened  the growing political chasm that separates her from mainstream Texans, women in particular.

Three Texas women  brought the message  to Richards  at a press conference on  the  steps  of the  capitol  before  hundreds of supporters, many of them women  and law enforcement officers in and out  of uniform.
Dr. Suzanna  Gratia  lost her  parents at Luby's Cafeteria  in Killeen.  Ms.  Sue King,  an NRA-certified
instructor and member of the NRA Board of Directors from Houston, has trained hundreds of women in safe gun handling and personal protection. And Sue Ferris, a former San Antonio police officer, brought  the  special   perspective  of   a  rank-and-file  law enforcement officer who can no longer protect her family.  "Everybody thinks it happens in a dark alley," began Dr. Gratia.  "It doesn't happen like that, folks. For me, it happened a year and a half ago, sitting in a restaurant on a pretty day just like today." Her anger increasingly visible,  Gratia asked the crowd why Ann Richards can have  "her personal armed security guards, and I can't protect myself and my family?"  Before a  madman killed  22 people,  including her  parents, in Killeen, Dr. Gratia had decided not to carry her personally owned firearm, because there was no carry provision in the law.  "I've got my priorities straight, people. What a shame it took a tragedy to get them straight.   Then came  the invitation:  "I'd like  twenty minutes  with Ann Richards. She gave the time to Sarah Brady. She can give me the time."
Following Dr.  Gratia was  John  Chapman. A  police  officer in Killeen, Texas, Chapman asked aloud if Dr. Gratia could have made a difference in the Luby's disaster.  "She sure could have," he said, "she sure could have." Chapman  was speaking on behalf of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America.
NRA Director Sue King began,  "I refuse to be  a victim. I also refuse to allow  an elected  official to  deny me the  right to protect myself."  Fear of crime is both widespread and justified, King explained.  "Half of my  students are already  victims. The  other half are scared to death, ... because women are [the criminals'] prey of
choice.
"For political police chiefs and politicians to ignore the safety needs of women is the most appalling circumstance I've ever seen in my life. I invite the governor,  a woman who should be aware of women's  needs,  to  meet  with  us.  Governor,  what's your answer?"
"As a patrol officer,  I became acutely aware  that I could not protect all the women and men in my district," said Sue Ferris of San Antonio. "Now we are close to having the means of protecting ourselves, and only Ann Richards stands in our way. The life of my 12-year-old  daughter  is  every  bit  as  valuable  as  the Governor's life," she said.  "Meet with us, Governor."
The women  were  joined  by  two  legislators:  Bill  Carter, a great-grandfather who is the picture of the citizen-lawmaker and Ron Wilson, an African-American from  Houston who speaks with a preacher's fire.
"This is not a political issue,"  Carter said, "but an issue of personal safety.  Texas can't  win the  war  on crime  if Texas doesn't take prisoners. We are  freeing prisoners. We must give good citizens the means to keep them safe from harm."
Wilson recounted the  story of his  own family's victimization.  His wife was the victim "not of a human being, but a predator,"  he said. After she was stabbed, the attacker said, "Bitch, I'll be back.  And she,  by law,  can't carry  a firearm  to protect herself? When you're a victim," he  said softly, "it opens your eyes."
"You hear all this talk about fighting crime," Wilson continued more forcefully. "Well, this is the  litmus test. Now it's time to put up or shut up. The protection of the good folks of Texas is the most important issue in this legislative session.  "We're going to put this bill on the governor's desk, and she can lock and load, Jack!"
With her catch-and-release criminal justice system the focus of a CBS 48 Hours investigative report in April, Governor Ann Richards was asked on-camera what  can be done  to protect lawful Texans from career criminals the system continues to release.  "You protect society the same way you protect your family," she said. "You do everything you  can do for them,  and you pray to God that it works."
Richards vetoed the self-defense  legislation with this insult:  "We say 'no' to the amateur gunslingers who think they are going to be braver and smarter with a gun in their hand."
With the legislative session at an end, Governor Richards has the time to explain her hostility toward self-defense to every Texan and every crime  victim. She can  begin taking  her insults and  explanations to Sue Ferris, Sue King and Suzanna Gratia.



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Memo from President Clinton on Gun Control
Text of the Brady Bill
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