This was a fast moving, fast talking interview  ..

Eric - Tom, are you there?

Z - Hey Eric, how are you doing?

Eric - How are you Tom?

Z - Excellent. If I were any better, I'd be twins ...

Eric - What are you doing with yourself these days?

Z -  I'm working for a multinational company here in Minneapolis. I manage a production arm of it.

Eric - Excellent, maybe they could bring you into WCW as the manager over there.....

Z - Well yeah - I'd work good with Flair, Johnny Ace and Terry Taylor - I think that would be a good booking committee. 

Eric - What about Vince Russo?

Z - I don't know Vince personally. I think he might be on the right track. I don't know. I heard from Terry Taylor one time that he's got a really creative mind and he knows the TV part of it - so I've heard only positive things about Russo when Taylor spoke about him. 

Eric - I've got to ask you because somebody asked me to ask you this question - given 30 minutes with Brad Seigel - what would you tell him?

Z - I'd tell him what they've got going on down there. First of all, they haven't progressed in the 10 years that I've been watching them or been associated with them. They're on track to lose $80 million!  Now who are we going to blame for that?  Someone's got to take the heat here. And I say it's Bischoff ..

Eric - Of course!
 

On Eric Bischoff  - "he could probably break the U.S. Government"

Eric - And that would be pretty hard to do....

Z - Is it! But I think he could do it.

Eric - Well, now they have Gary Coleman working over there. The guy from "Different Strokes" - the little guy - well maybe they could have him run the company.

Z - Are you serious?

Eric - Yeah - he was on the Pay Per View last week. You know it's funny -  I used to goof around when they had Jason Harvey booking and I used to say "Who's that? Gary Coleman?"  And then he shows up... (laughter).

Z - The last I heard of him, he'd supposedly punched some woman security guard.

Eric - Yeah! A security guard. It's funny, I had Chris Jericho on the show the week that that happened and we had a whole conversation about Gary Coleman punching the security guard and the next thing you know he's doing run ins and taking guitar shots from Jeff Jarrett [on WCW]. 

Z - Oh no!!

Eric - They've got the retro 80 stars, they've got everyone coming in there now.

Z - Oh no!! I mean I remember some of these guys - they were kind of OLD when I was down there. I'm going to be 42 soon and I'm thinking  "My goodness, how are these guys still around? They were old when I was down there?" Oh God. They are  just doing the wrong thing.

Eric - And I think it's obvious when you watch it each week....

Z - Yeah!

Eric - Do you watch what's going on?

Z - I do a little bit. The last time, I tuned into the pay per view (Fall Brawl) I saw Jim Barnett in the crowd next to The Destroyer (Dick Beyer) with his mask on!!!! - I'm going "This is the year 2000 and you're wearing a mask in the audience!" I watched some of it and I watched Vince's pay per view but Vince is so far ahead. Instead of trying to compete with them, they [WCW] should just give the people a different product, a different style of wrestling product. Don't go back [to the old days]. But change it - incorporate some of Vince Russo's new ideas and get back to more athleticism. You're never going to catch Vince because he's on the cutting edge. So give it a little variation - And not just alter the tables where Tony Schavione sits! You have to get some new blood into the show. Inject different things. Flair, he can get on there and talk, but dear gawd take his kid off!! Pay his kid to sit at home. You know Ric Flair, has a legacy He's done enough damage to himself.  Give the kid a rubber mask or something...
 
 

"Ric Flair, has a legacy He's done enough damage to himself.  Give the kid a rubber mask or something..."

Z - Here's my prescription for Ric Flair's kid. He should wake up in the morning. Eat a big breakfast.  Go to the gym and watch 10 -12 hours of Ric Flair promos and matches every day and go to the Power Plant. Keep him off TV for 2 years until he can fill daddy's shoes. We've seen Dustin Rhodes, we've seen Bill Watt's kid - where are they now?

Eric - Yeah, exactly. I honestly think they should give him a DNA test because there's no way Ric Flair could have any of his genes in that kid.

Z - Oh no. I was going to say he was just like '"a chip off the old block"  That would be the best burn you could tell Flair " Hey, he's just a chip off the old block." Boy, that would make Ric seethe.

Eric - Y'know it's funny. I heard a story once from one of the boys that, before the shows, Arn was working out with his kid [David Flair] trying to teach him a figure-four leg lock, how to apply it, and he couldn't grasp it. And the guy who was telling me this yelled out "You'd think if your father was Ric Flair, you'd know how to put on a figure-four leg lock."

Z - The best one I ever heard was when his kid, I wasn't watching it at the time, but Jumpin' Joey Maggs - remember him? .... 

Eric - Yes, of course ..

Z - He rang me and said "Tom, Tom, turn on the TV right away! Flair's kid is on there. He just gave a guy a supplex and the guy he gave the supplex to beat him up." (laughter) Stood up before Flair's kid - I mean, it's just a shame and very embarrassing and guys that claim they love the sport, and they protect it, and say they love the business, well you wouldn't have your son out there. I mean its like "Don't you know?" And if you don't know, I'm telling you now Ric. "Keep your kid off TV!!" I'm sure none of the boys care if he gets paid - ('the bloodlines' or whatever lie you want to say). But don't expose your son. You're setting him up to fail. You shouldn't do that. It wrecks wrestling and it wrecks credibility. And wrestling has none now and that's what it needs.
 
 

"Pillman and I used to light guys up just to gauge their reaction. The top guys. They're the stooges and they're still there.....!!!!"

Z - Oh Pillman and I were just seething!!! (laughter) They were taking up valuable time. And all the boys would give you the ga ga - "Oh, he's a nice guy brother.." brother.. all the brother jive (laughter) I cut to the chase. I didn't want to see it. I'd played the game in the WWF and that was the worst part about wrestling - all the lies. All the BS. Nobody gets down to business. And they still are floundering. You have to keep your mouth shut. And guys get quiet in the car. Pillman and I used to light guys up just to gauge their reaction. You could figure out the stooges. The top guys. They're the stooges and they're still there. When was the last time Sting had a memorable match? He didn't draw when I was down there and he doesn't draw now!

Eric - That's so true.

Z - So who likes them?  What have they got going on?

Eric - So true...

Z - Do they have nude pictures of somebody? I don't get it.

Eric - You know Tom, it's so funny because I did this show about a month ago called "Who's got pictures" with exactly that concept. I never had a more popular show in my life.  I still have people ringing in 5 weeks later saying 'I know who's got pictures." It's the same concept as they got over there. Now speaking of Brian Pillman. You teamed with him for quite a long time and had a most successful tag team ...What are your memories of Brian Pillman?
 
 

Z - Brian Pillman was a fantastic guy. His first love was football, but like Dynamite Kid, he was always fighting the short man thing. But they both had so much athletic ability. Pillman was a fantastic guy, a good friend and it just 
killed us when Ole (Anderson) broke up our tag team. We had great matches with the Midnight Express [Eaton and Lane]. But I believe behind the scenes they leveled the playing field - some of the top guys that couldn't compete with guys like myself and Brian night after night after night. If you're running around, chasing women at night, having a good time, and you still could perform when you got trashed the night before and have fun - they don't want to see it because they are miserable and they are married. ...Pillman, he got buried by Dusty in The Yellow Dog angle. They had Pillman in the Light heavyweight division, but Watts just canned that. Then he got screwed over by Bischoff with the Hollywood Blondes and that was the best thing they had going as a tag team. Behind the scenes there is a lot of stuff that goes on. A little clique of guys and then finally the booker man. Now I know for a fact that Pillman never wanted to go to the WWF. Everyone wants to retire in WCW. Anyone that's jumped - Luger, the Steiners - they all come back. Because the money sucked before in the WWF. Vince paid you what he wanted to pay you. Then, Bischoff got the cash [ATM] card and started giving out money, so Vince had to up the ante. He never wanted to do that. That's the old trick of a promoter you know. Tell him "You're a star [because] You're on my TV." Anyway, Brian -  that's a really sad case. Some of these guys [journalists]. They know what goes on behind the scenes. Some of these guys that know these thing have to be accountable. Supposed journalists. They should be more accountable. You could see it happening. He was in a downward spiral. 

Eric - Were you surprised when you heard the terrible news about Brian?

Z -  No, to tell you the truth. I predicted he had about two years to live 
after his ex-girlfriend killed herself. I knew him well. He was at Joey's 
(Maggs) house in Atlanta when he got the news (about his ex-girlfriend). I got a phone call right away. Joey had to pick him up off the floor about four times. He said "I think that's as close to a nervous breakdown as he ever had." He said "It was just terrible." Just awful. It didn't help what they did to him in wrestling. They manipulated him. Brian was a heck of an athlete, it's just a sad, tragic, story of misuse.

Eric - Shawn Michaels recently did an interview where he said, the night before Pillman passed away, he was just in real bad shape, real bad shape, and the signs were all over the place - and the guys really weren't surprised.

Z - Exactly. And he died in Minneapolis here, right out in Bloomington.

Eric - Yeah, right in your home town ...

Z - All the signs were there. And then the next night [after Brian's death] Vince comes on TV at Brian wife's house. Quite a business!

Eric - Yeah, wonderful business!
 
 

Thursday 5 October marked the third anniversary of Brian Pillman's death

.
 

Next week - Concludes with Zenk on Watts, Bischoff, Jason Harvey, DDP's book, Austin, Heyman, Patterson, McMahon, Martel 

On Paul Heyman - "Paul Heyman has a great mind for wrestling and he's tenacious too. He doesn't back down. I saw him throwing a garbage can at Ric Flair, like they were in a cat-fight. "Oh yeah, and f', and f' this." Back and forth. It was a draw. No punches were thrown, but he was mad as heck and they were back and forth. It was great entertainment. It's a great memory of mine. He didn't take anything from Ric. He stood his ground and I always knew he'd be a success and always be in the business."