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Calling all Christians-EXCEPT HAWK

(cnwinters) writes:
> The following contains a mini spoiler of Sin Trade 2 so ignore this post
> if that's a problem.
>
> Also Hawk can ignore this post as well since he doesn't think it merits
> a discussion. With that said, on to my post. . .
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
> In Sin Trade 2, Xena is shown her death and Gabrielle is there. They
> are both being nailed to the cross. Since X and G live their life as
> 'do-gooders' like Jesus Christ, I wondered what relevance this scene
> has to the upcoming season. I just wanted to discuss your ideas since
> this is the year of Xena and Gabrielle's spiritual quest.
>
> Do you think TPTB were drawing comparisons between the girls and Christ?
> And if so, why?
>
> Do you think the girls will 'find' Christianity before the end of the series
> or even this year perhaps?
>
> I'd like to hear you're thoughts and opinions without feeling flamed.
>
> Thank you.
>
> CN Winters

***
Well you certainly know how to bring L.- L. out of hiding, don't you?
And Darlin' you know I'd NEVER flame YOU!

On to your question......

I think TPTB MAY be trying to draw a comparison between Xena and Christ. The theme is REDEMPTION. Xena has spent the past 3 years desperately trying to redeem herself for her evil deeds through doing "good" deeds.
Though Christ was indeed a "do-gooder" (as you stated), His good deeds were not the primary mission of his life here on Earth. Yes, He was sent as an example of what mankind *should* be, but the main purpose for his earthly mission was to provide a pure blood sacrifice for the sins of the world, so that all of fallen mankind could be forgiven through faith in God's Son and His death on the cross. His point was: good deeds are wonderful, but the only REAL forgiveness for sins is thorugh the shedding of blood.

In the Old Testament, animal sacrifice was sufficient for the redemption of sins. But with the birth of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) came a new world order (sound familiar?) - a world in which the death of the Son of God on a cross would provide redemption for all who believe.

TPTB have tampered with the redemption theme of the Bible before (Altared States) so are they acquiescing to the central theme of the Bible - redemption of sins through human blood sacrifice?

Or are they just including this crucifixion scene for the plain, old-fashioned shock value of it?

Knowing somewhat of the nature of the producers of this series, I might vote for the latter.

I haven't seen Sin Trade II yet, so I can't comment a lot on it. (I haven't even read your or anyone else's spoilers. I've been too busy White Trashin'. Sorry, Sweetie, but I don't live just to read your posts. (Sound familiar?) {Just kiddin' CN!!! You know how L.- L. feels about ya. }

I do know how TPTB have worked in the past with Biblical themes. They take it to the boiling point, but never really get the "whole truth" out there.

Since Xena and Gabrielle will be venturing into the East and into India on their spiritual "quest" this season, I would find it highly unlikely that Christianity would play much part in their search for the "truth." Hinduism maybe, or Eastern mysticism....but not Christianity. New Delhi is not exactly the buckle of the Bible Belt, you know.

I'd like to see them "find" and accept Christianity as the "way" before the series ends. But I'm not going to hold my breath. (That would be just too politically incorrect of them to favor one relgion over another!)

Just my 2 dinars, as always.
Now don't you go flamin' me, Darlin.

L.- L.
hoping she answered your question, but not sure she did.

You have full posting privileges

Calling all Christians-EXCEPT HAWK

(cnwinters) writes:
> The following contains a mini spoiler of Sin Trade 2 so ignore this post
> if that's a problem.
>
> Also Hawk can ignore this post as well since he doesn't think it merits
> a discussion. With that said, on to my post. . .
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
> In Sin Trade 2, Xena is shown her death and Gabrielle is there. They
> are both being nailed to the cross. Since X and G live their life as
> 'do-gooders' like Jesus Christ, I wondered what relevance this scene
> has to the upcoming season. I just wanted to discuss your ideas since
> this is the year of Xena and Gabrielle's spiritual quest.
>
> Do you think TPTB were drawing comparisons between the girls and Christ?
> And if so, why?
>
> Do you think the girls will 'find' Christianity before the end of the series
> or even this year perhaps?
>
> I'd like to hear you're thoughts and opinions without feeling flamed.
>
> Thank you.
>
> CN Winters
CN-
You have brought up some interesting questions. Not knowing what
TPTB have in their "peapicking brains" I can only give you my thoughts
on the subject. Being a student of history I want to say that many
people were "nailed" to a cross/stake/whatever by the Romans. They
did reserve this "honor" for some of their most "troublesome" victims.
So I would think knowing our fearsome duo that they probably will have
given the Romans a real pain and for this honor that is why Xena and
Gabrielle are being nailed.
As to your question about X and G encountering Christianity, I hope
not. In my opinion that would be too much of a streach even for the
Xenaverse. I personally am not one who beleives that the couple they
met at the end of the Soltice show was Joseph and Mary. I never saw
that as a possibility just a mild mannered joke thrown at us by TPTB.
As the girls and Herc go on their season of spirituality quests I do
hope that they meet other religious beliefs of the time period they
were to have lived through. Christians and Muslims come much later in
the time space continuum. There are numerous other religions that they
can call on though.
Xena Battle On!!---------------------------------------------O'CONNOR--

You have full posting privileges

Calling all Christians-EXCEPT HAWK

(cnwinters) writes:
> The following contains a mini spoiler of Sin Trade 2 so ignore this post
> if that's a problem.
>
> Also Hawk can ignore this post as well since he doesn't think it merits
> a discussion. With that said, on to my post. . .
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
> In Sin Trade 2, Xena is shown her death and Gabrielle is there. They
> are both being nailed to the cross. Since X and G live their life as
> 'do-gooders' like Jesus Christ, I wondered what relevance this scene
> has to the upcoming season. I just wanted to discuss your ideas since
> this is the year of Xena and Gabrielle's spiritual quest.
>
> Do you think TPTB were drawing comparisons between the girls and Christ?
> And if so, why?
>
> Do you think the girls will 'find' Christianity before the end of the series
> or even this year perhaps?
>
> I'd like to hear you're thoughts and opinions without feeling flamed.
>
> Thank you.
>
> CN Winters
***
CN,
I just briefly scanned thru your post because I really didn't want
to spoil part 2 of ST for myself, but I got the gist of your question.
I would say yes, the whole series is gradually moving towards the
idea of the one God, and that I feel will be of the Israelites. We've
had hints of this in such episodes as A Fistful of Dinars, Altared States, and Giant Killer to name just a few. A now we are moving towards the decline of the pantheon of Olympic gods as well as the multiple gods of other cultures. Dahak is probably supposed to represent the Devil. It won't occur this season, but by the end of the series, Xena will find her forgiveness thru Christianity. I'm not saying that this should necessarily happen, but I do think that's the way it will go.

Piscean

You have full posting privileges

Calling all Christians-EXCEPT HAWK

(cnwinters) writes:

> >>
> Thank you for answering these questions with discussion. I tried to do
> this with Hawk but I think he misunderstood what I was trying to say. I
> just wondered since we are going to see this 'spiritual quest' this year
> if that scene in some way was prepping people for something to come.
>
> Thanks for replying.
>
> CN Winters

The theme of redemtion through blood sacrifice or death is not exclusively Christian,
but is an archetype found in many religions, including my own. Sorry for commenting
here, I know I wasn't invited to, seeing as I'm not Christian. But I used to be -- does
that count?

The spirituality of the Action Pack series is, unfortunately, very ill-defined.
We started out with a loosely classical definition of "good" and "evil" being the main
forces, with Tartarus (eternal punishment) for the latter and The Elysian Fields (Eternal
happiness) for the former, with mortals like Hercules and Xena essentially just taking an
elevator ride down or else swimming to a deep, dark hole in the lake in order to get there.
We now have graduated through multiple deaths and ressurections and convenient rewritings
of the backstory to the aping of sympathetic magic and ritual and shamanistic tradition. ("Shaman-ESS????"
I think they made that one up, kids.) Now you say we're gonna see them crucified (haven't seen
the ep, so I'm taking your word for it) Well, we've seen this before (twice: Once in "The Quest, and
once in "The Bitter Suite") and the image, once powerful, (like the hot-tub scene in ADITL, and
now repeated in the yet to be aired 4th season ep) is getting a little tired. One can only
crucify/kill/sacrifice and then ressurect a character so many times without the meaning and
significance getting a little dilute.

I'm all for characters going on quests and progressing and reaching a new awareness of themselves,
I'm all for "spiritual awakenings" and stuff. I find it a little less attractive when I'm told in
advance that that's what I'm supposed to see.

Let that pass.

If they are nailed up --again -- and they sacrifice their lives -- again -- I mean, DANG, kids! Didn't
Gabrielle just sacrifice herself in order to prevent Dahok from coming into the World? And didn't HerK
just fight Gilgamesh --Who was a hero, not a villain. (Nice bit of rewriting, there, Tapert&Co) in order to
accomplish the same thing, losing Iolaus in the process? I mean, how much sacrifice do these people have to
make, and how many times are they gonna have to die and come back in order to satisfy somebody's need to have
a "meaningful" storyline?

As for them finding "Christianity" as the "way", I think, like Leigh-Leigh, that they won't do it. Two
reasons: First, she's right, it would offend too many people, myself included. Second, according to what
we may laughingly refer to as the series' "continuity", The Christ cannot be more than two years old at this time,
since in "Solstice Carol" we saw them pass their donkey onto what we are led to believe is the Holy Couple on
their way to Bethlehem. We likewise saw the Star Of Bethlehem in the Hercules Christmas Episode that same year
Sorry, I can't recall the name. "Three WiseGuys" or something. ;) I won't even go into mixung up of the Roman
Empire and The Golden Age Of Greece. Nor will I point out that Christ was born in the reign of Tiberius, not
the reign of Julius Ceasar. (Waitamiinit -- I just did. Oh, well.) On the other hand, if we just ignore what
went before -- which they do SO well -- then they can have old JC walk across the lake and redeem them both. I think
this unlikely just because it would probably sink the show for good. (Pat Robertson might pick it up, though.)

What they may come up with is a Christian-LIKE philosophy of their own that mixes up Eastern and Western philosophies,
Buddhism, Taoism, Socratic philosophy, Greco-Roman Paganism and comic book preachiness into a mish-mash that will
have all the members of this Forum scratchin' their heads and fussin' and fightin' for the entire Summer Rerun Season.
I personally think that TPTB have no firm hold on amy kind of continuity or consistency and can have Xena in a white robe
preaching "Love your enemies" one week and have her back to busting heads the next.

Anyway, that is, of course, just my opinion. What will really occur is anybody's guess --

I mean --

It's a tuffy.

His Royal Heinie
Democratus The Philosopher
King Of Fools
Ruler Of Planet X

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