What do we want from Joxer?

Here's what I'd like to see:

Since the characters are growing and changing, I'd like to see Joxer
just grow up. Stop acting like a kid oggling after Gabrielle. I think
one of my favorite Joxer scenes was from Quill when he gave Gabby the
neckless. He wasn't acting like a baffoon. He was warm and sincere.
He didn't put on any fronts. It was sweet the way he kinda curled into a
ball and pulled his hair behind his ears nervously. Give us more of that
if we have to put up with Joxer. That would make him tolerible.

Another point - make him more of a fighter. IN 'Priestess' this year I
really wanted to see him be helpful. He's got the heart now let Xena teach
him some skills. But of course that won't happen until . . .he grows up.

What's your thoughts?

CN

What do we want from Joxer?

(theHandpuppet) writes:
> (cnwinters) writes:
> > (theHandpuppet) writes:
> > > Hmmmm....What do we want from Joxer?
> > >
> > > Well, if we can't have less screen time or less obnoxious, drooling, sexist behavior, how about a glorious death? That would do for me.
> > >
> > > --The Handpuppet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > You must've loved. . .and then hated. . .Been There, Done That<G>
> > CN
>
> Oh my, I forgot....anybody who doesn't like Joxer must be a man-hating lesbian. After 60 years of marriage and six kids, my mother would be quite surprised to know that. And so, too, would my father. I'm really surprised at you, CN.
>
> --The Handpuppet
>
>
>
>I'm not exactly why you're surprised with me. What exactly did I say that surprised you? BTW, I'm a lesbian and many of my friends are men - I don't hate them. I don't desire them is all. Please reply back because I'm really curious about your 'surprised'.

CN

What do we want from Joxer?

(theHandpuppet) writes:
>
> > > > You must've loved. . .and then hated. . .Been There, Done That<G>
> > > > CN
> > >
> > > Oh my, I forgot....anybody who doesn't like Joxer must be a man-hating lesbian. After 60 years of marriage and six kids, my mother would be quite surprised to know that. And so, too, would my father. I'm really surprised at you, CN.
> > >
> > > --The Handpuppet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I'm not exactly why you're surprised with me. What exactly did I say that surprised you? BTW, I'm a lesbian and many of my friends are men - I don't hate them. I don't desire them is all. Please reply back because I'm really curious about your 'surprised'.
> >
> > CN
>
> Okay, perhaps I have misinterpreted the somewhat oblique statement you made above? Perhaps you can reword it or explain it for me a little better? Sure sounded like a personal swipe to me - for comments I made about a fictional character.
>
> --The Handpuppet
>
>
>
You want Joxer dead right? Did you see the beginning of BTDT? He died. (You would have loved it). Then he came back to life. (You would have hated it). That's what I meant. I'm not sure how it got personal. However, try to remember for future reference not all of us lesbian are man-haters. It's not nice to make generalization about people.

CN Winters

What do we want from Joxer?

> All cleared up. <G> I too have been bashed - for my lesbianism so when I say you're reply I thought you were ripping on me.

No way! As a matter of fact, just in the past couple of weeks I've received a slew of nasty email calling me various names, including that "man hater" one, for criticizing the show. One of the authors of these love letters even sought to legitimize their attacks by stating that they were pals with Xenastaff and therefore felt they were speaking for them as well. Sheesh! Some people.

> Many people know about MY orientation because I'm usually so loud about it<G>. No harm done. But as far as Joxer goes, they
> had a great idea introducing him but he should grow at some point if we have to put up with him. It's getting even older than
> the xena look-a-like jokes.

The problem is, in order to make any credible changes to the charcater it means they will have to devote screen time to him. And I really and truly and most sincerely object to any more screen time being wasted on Joxer. What we need is LESS screen time! Let's have a little less Joxer and some more Sal and Meleager and Vidalis! And some more Ephiny and Solari, if they've given up their current jobs at the Amazonian Day Care Center.

> CN
> Queen of Subtext <G>

I suppose this means I can only be Princess.

--The Handpuppet

What do we want from Joxer?

I don'y usually get involved in these kinds of discussions, but what the flip. Basically I have
two main problems with Joxer. One, he's is just being used to much. I didn't mind Joxer when he showed
up every now and then, but he's just being overused. And you probably already know this, but Joxer
signed a 22 episode deal next season, but he will only be appearing in about half the episodes next
season, which in reality is about the same as the last two seasons. And a couple of his appearances
will be cameo appearances, so he will be appearing alot, but it will remain Xena and Gab's show.

The second thing, and this has been really starting to irk me, is his constant obsession with Gabrielle.
This has been going on for a year now, and it's gotten old. Whenever Joxer makes his presence you know
what is going to take place. One, Joxer is going to fall on his face, two, Joxer is going to walk into
a wall, and three, Joxer is going to start drooling over Gabrielle. He has had these feelings for a year
now and Gabby has shown no interest in him as a lover, and it's time that he accepted that and accepts
her relationship as a friend or a sister. I'm actually looking foward to next season because it looks
like they are finally going to put his obsession with Gabby to rest, and no I don't mean they are going to
get together. I know some of you Joxer lovers may want to see that, but TPTB won't do anything that will
alienate any large sector of the viewing audience, and thus their won't be a romance develop between Gab
and Joxer.

As much as Joxer has gotten on my nerves this season, I'm hopeful that next season when he once again starts
to view Gab as a sisterlike figure instead of his object of obsession his presence will become more bearable.

Chakram712

What do we want from Joxer?

> > Problem is ..as the character is defined for the purpose of this show
> > he can not grow and develope...he is there to be the "clown" the butt of the joke....and that isn't going to change....remember the Xena Scrolls...his character is defined for the ages as a jerk....
> > If they did develop him...his role would be lost...he would end up like Callisto....no more purpose/used up ... so gone....
> >
> > Unfortunatly, there are only so many ways to use a one dimensional character for a laugh....and the audience for this show has often been noted by the press as in general having a highly intelligent professional contingent who may be well past enjoying continually repeated Three Stoogies/slap stick type humor
> > ...which usually plays better to teenagers...(and yes, I realize there are exceptions to these generalizations)....and I'm not going to go into all the other contingents of fandom ....since they have expressed their dislike for this character extemely well...so I don't have too...
> >
> > JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS
> >
> > The repeated use of this character has hurt the shows ratings
> > FWTBT dropped the ratings by 700,000 from the previous week essentially killing the momentum that had come from Feb sweeps of second season and when FWTBT's was shown the second time it again dropped the ratings 600,000 from the previous week. Similarly, KOA was shown at the end of Nov sweeps this year...and it dropped the ratings by 500,000 viewers from the previous week...again killing the sweeps momentum...
> >
> > and If I remember correctly TOM's poll found only 8% identifying with the character....not a big following considering all the coverage he has gotten
> >
> > Beth Gaynors page shows that he splits the fans into luve'm/hate'm
> > groups....with almost a 3 std deviation ....this is not a character any Program in their right mind should be pushing if they want to build their audience....
> >
> > So to answer your question.......
> > I think the numbers show that folks aren't interested in
> >
> > The Three Stooges meets Threes Company Greek style
> >
> > I think the numbers show that pushing this charater down the fans throats is hurting the show...
> >
> > Repeated Slap Stick gets boring for many/his presence is an insult to others/many have voiced their dislike of the vulgar "humor" he has been used for this season- making Joxer not for kids
> >
> > and bottom line
> >
> > people are turning the show off when he comes on...
> > as he has been defined,
> > his character can't change
> > he is always going to hurt the show in terms of ratings
> >
> > So..... I'd like to see Joxer gone...
> >
> >
> >
> I guess that's my point. The character needs to grow if they're keep him
> around and after signing 22 eps for next year that's obvious. Thanks for
> replying

CN,
yep and that's the catch 22...he can't grow...otherwise he has no purpose on the show...cuz that's how the writers have defined him...the writers are boxed into corner with him....like they are with Callisto....but they could kill off Callisto...Joxer is the Ex.Producers Brother who needs a job...so he gets signed to a pay or play sweet heart deal... the writers can't think of anything better than Jockstrap Jokes for him now....which is causing folks to vote with the remote....and sending the ratings to tarturus...
sad.....