Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:56:04 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706102200.XAA00719@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Craig.Coussins" 
Reply-To: "Craig.Coussins" 
To: 
Subject: subcribe
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:48:36 +0100
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Craig Coussins has a Suiseki interest dating back to the early 70's. He has
a collection numbering some 2 thousand stones collected from all round the
world.

He alternates some of his collection on his web site at
www.btinternet.com/craig.coussins

He is always happy to hear from other suiseki collecters and looks forward
to meeting more friends on the Net.

With best wishes,
Craig Coussins, Scotland, UK.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:16:47 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706110020.IAA08639@mailhub.omen.com.au>
From: "John Oldland" 
Reply-To: "John Oldland" 
To: 
Subject: subscribe
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:26:17 +0800
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subscribe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:19:34 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <339DFE50.2C8E@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:24:32 -0400
From: Chris Cochrane 
Reply-To: Chris Cochrane 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Expanding vision
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Thank you, Craig, for gathering such a diverse list of folks 
interested in stone aesthetics.  I hope those you have 
identified will join as well as others.

Recent reading from the _Worlds Within Worlds (WWW)_ catalog on 
Chinese scholars' rocks has inspired me try making Chinese style 
stands (daiza?).  Just applying the Chinese rather than Japanese 
aesthetics to a stone can result in a totally different metaphor 
and a significant change to a stone's character.  

I have in mind changing a Japanese-style daiza to a Chinese 
style in order to bring out new character in a stone that 
reminds me of the texture of a "Fantastic Rock" rock painted by 
Wu Bin (act. c. 1583-1626) shown on page 224 of the _WWW_ 
catalog.  The stone is shaped very much like figure 53 (Rock in 
the Form of Multiple Peaks) in the catalog.

This stone was published in the Corvello/Yoshimura's _The 
Japanese Art of Stone Appreciation_ as a dry waterfall stone, 
where it was shown sitting in sand (p. 126).  

After reading Felix's thoughts on the proper relative dimensions 
of landscape stones based on Japanese stone aesthetics, I was 
really disparaging of this stone.  Even the color (mostly light 
gray & beige) was not very appealing.

Now, I'm really excited as this stone may hit the mark (except 
for ancient provenance) in the Chinese aesthetic... if only I 
can craft that stand... :).
   
If anyone can provide an off-list site where pictures of stones 
can be temporarily uploaded and viewed, I'd gladly provide a 
scan?  Being able to see stones discussed would terrific.

Chris... C. Cochrane, sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:00:54 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706111105.MAA29904@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Chris Cochrane" , 
Subject: Re: Expanding vision
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:51:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Not sure if I am sending this correctly as its a 'reply' to Chris's note.
Hope it gets to the list.

> Recent reading from the _Worlds Within Worlds (WWW)_ catalog on 
> Chinese scholars' rocks has inspired me try making Chinese style 
> stands (daiza?).  Just applying the Chinese rather than Japanese 
> aesthetics to a stone can result in a totally different metaphor 
> and a significant change to a stone's character.

It does. I carve these type stands and they are a lot of fun.

> After reading Felix's thoughts on the proper relative dimensions 
> of landscape stones based on Japanese stone aesthetics, I was 
> really disparaging of this stone.  Even the color (mostly light 
> gray & beige) was not very appealing.
> 
> Now, I'm really excited as this stone may hit the mark (except 
> for ancient provenance) in the Chinese aesthetic... if only I 
> can craft that stand... :).

Now you have given Felix the excuse for saying us enthusiasts of Chinese
Scholars Rocks use 'reject' material :-))))  
    
> If anyone can provide an off-list site where pictures of stones 
> can be temporarily uploaded and viewed, I'd gladly provide a 
> scan?  Being able to see stones discussed would terrific.

I can put them at my site if you like. I have a page of links and friends
and could add a page to that for this forum. 

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:38:16 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "Chris Cochrane" 
CC: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Re: Expanding vision
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:42:22 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi Chris;

You wrote;

> If anyone can provide an off-list site where pictures of stones 
> can be temporarily uploaded and viewed, I'd gladly provide a 
> scan?  Being able to see stones discussed would terrific.

I can do that. Send it on over.

The page will be rather primitive till I get some time to work on it
however.

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:55:46 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Admin.: Review of mailing list viewing_stones
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:59:55 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Gang;

Just thought I'd forward this to the list to let you know who is on the
viewing stone list. As of this morning we have 20 subscribers. This should
increase in the next few days, as there are still a few people that have
told me they are interested, and will be subscribing, and aren't on yet.

By my count we have at least 7 countries so far.

Anyone can do this at any time by sending the word;

review

to;	viewing_stones-request@triumf.ca

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm

----------
> From: MX mailing list processor 
> To: Craig J. Hunt 
> Subject: Review of mailing list viewing_stones
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 11:48 AM
> 
> List Name: viewing_stones (Viewing Stones Aesthetics Mailing List)
> 
> Subscribers:
> 
>   "Craig J. Hunt" 
>   Mary-Ruth Long Flores 
>   ManFont@AOL.COM
>   "Craig.Coussins" 
>   "Joe Davies" 
>   Andy Miksys 
>   Peter Aradi 
>   Chris Cochrane 
>   sinclair@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU
>   Lynn boyd 
>   "John Oldland" 
>   Garry Garcia 
>   Minh Tran 
>   Herb Gustafson 
>   "MOHD FAUZIE BIN ABD KARIM" 
>   marco favero 
>   Glen Johnson and Deb Kennedy 
>   gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.MAIL.ABB.COM
>   Gary Bolstridge 
>   Mark Dean 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:31:55 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706161836.TAA27777@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Craig.Coussins" 
Reply-To: "Craig.Coussins" 
To: 
Subject: Come and Visit
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:24:17 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Craig

----------
> From: Craig.Coussins 
>
> 
> 
 Craig Coussins has a Suiseki interest dating back to the early 70's. I
have 
 a collection numbering some 2 thousand stones collected from all round
the world.

From Skye, Barra, Mull and other Islands of Scotland, The West Coast of
Ireland, The Canadian Rockies near Banff and Jasper, The Arizona Desert,
The High Veldt in the Transvaal- South Africa, The Steppes of Russia, The
Sierrra Madres and Fuente De in Spain, England and in Liguria, Italy. Next
stop is a new site in Ireland and later in the year I go on a trek in Nepal
and Tibet to work some Mountain and River sites.
> 
I alternate some of my collection on my web site at
www.btinternet.com/craig.coussins with the next variation coming on line
around end of June 1997.

This site was created by Joe Davies, a Suiseki collector of great repute
and a highly respected friend.

I am always happy to hear from other suiseki collecters and look
forward to meeting more friends on the Net.

With best wishes,
Craig Coussins, Scotland, UK.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:56:59 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Viewing Stone WWW Page
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:01:19 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi Gang;

I've created a new viewing stones page at;

http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/viewingstones.htm

Rather than having to scroll through the bonsai links page anymore, you can
go directly to this one. There is a link to the viewing stone page on the
bonsai page though.

Some of the links are new, or recently revised. There are now 10 different
stone enthusiasts listed. 

I hope this makes the page more useful.

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:11:50 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
CC: "Joe Davies" 
Subject: Viewing Stone Books
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 17:16:00 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi!

According to most references, there are now 4 books available on viewing
stones;

http://www.stonelantern.com/suiseki/suiwhatsnew.html
The Japanese Art of Stone Appreciation: Suiseki and Its use with Bonsai
By Vincent T .Coviello and Yuji Yoshimura

http://www.stonelantern.com/suiseki/suiwhatsnew.html
Suiseki and Viewing Stones: An American Perspective
By Melba Tucker & Photographs by Peter Bloomer

http://www.stonebridge.com/suiseki.html
The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape Stones
by Felix G Rivera

http://www.vvm.com/~ggarcia/page8.html
Worlds Within Worlds - The Richard Rosenblum Collection of Chinese
Scholars' Rocks
by Robert D. Mowry

In private email; Joe Davies mentioned a book called;

Men & Mountains Meet, 

Is the complete title of this book "When Men and Mountains Meet : The
Explorers of the Western Himalayas 1820-75" by John Keay
?

If so, amazon.com has it listed at;

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ats-query/6600-4615951-109677

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In private email; Chris Cochrane mentions a book called;

Kernels of Energy, Bones of Earth: The Rock in Chinese Art
by John Hays 

I looked at amazon, and they don't list it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They do have a listing;

The Story of Stone : Intertextuality, Ancient Chinese Stone Lore, and the
Stone Symbolism in Dream of the Red Chamber, Water Margin, and the Journey)
by Jing Wang

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=082231195X/6600-4615951-109677

Anyone know this book?

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:48:04 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706170252.DAA03086@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Craig J. Hunt" , "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Re: Viewing Stone Books
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:50:29 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Group,

> In private email; Joe Davies mentioned a book called;

> Men & Mountains Meet, 
> 
> Is the complete title of this book "When Men and Mountains Meet : The
> Explorers of the Western Himalayas 1820-75" by John Keay
> ?

No. It is the hardcover exhibition catalogue of the first major sale of
Suiseki and Chinese Scholar's Rocks in the West (they pinched the name from
John Keay's book), held in London in 1995 at
the Sydney L Moss Gallery. 80 stones in all (40 Japanese, 40 Chinese), with
the majority 'antique' stones. A gorgeous book with full page colour plates
of each stone in perhaps the best quality reproduction I have ever seen
(the pics were reproduced from 10x8 inch transparencies). In addition there
are other items such as fungus roots and marble pictures. As it was a
'catalogue' it was never published as such, and sold as any other up-market
sales catalogue. There are a few copies left and I can possibly obtain, but
they are not cheap at 50UK (80US) plus postage. For my own part its my most
inspirational book on the subject I have (and I include the WWW book in
that statement). I was priviliged to view the exhibition and handle the
stones, boy - what an experience, one doesnt fully appreciatte the size of
some of the Chinese Scholar's Stones until one picks them up! (or better -
attempts to). The stone in WWW No.2 'Rock in the form of a seated Tiger'
was purchased by Rosenblum from that exhibition. I remember first setting
eyes on it when we arrived as it was in their small Gallery window, I was
(and still am) thunderstruck by it and hope to renew my aquaintance with it
when I visit the WWW exhibition in Zurich next year. One of the stones, a
small (6 inch) Meiseki was on sale for 65,000UK (100,000 US) - it sold but
I dont know whether it reached the advertised price. It would have looked
nice on my coffee table if I had had the other 99,999 bucks!

> Kernels of Energy, Bones of Earth: The Rock in Chinese Art
> by John Hays 
> 
> I looked at amazon, and they don't list it.

Its out of print. My friend Dave has a copy and I have read it. Mainly
Chinese Garden stones but some Scholar's stones.

Other books you should include:-

Die Suiseki Kollektion von Pius Notter - Published by Kromer ISBN
3-85681-309-8. In German language but mainly pics of stones from Notter's
collection and Matin Pauli (both Swiss). 

Suiseki by Willi Benz. Published by Bonsai-Centrum Heidelberg ISBN
3-924982-20-1. A comprehensive book but again in German.

1996 Album of the Fifth International Rock Collection Association
Exhibition, Seoul. Still available I believe. Its huge! 600 pages with a
stone per page, all full plate color pics. It weighs something in the order
of 5 kilos.

Tu Wan's Stone Catalogue of Cloudy Forest, by Edward H Schafer, published
by University of California Press 1961. Out of print but you may track down
a copy somewhere in dusty library.

There are various Chinese, Japanese and Asian albums and publications but
they are hard to track down.

In addition there are several magazine articles mainly in BCI and BT, plus
a couple of mine in the UK rags.

The only current English language periodical that I am aware of is the
North American Viewing Stone Society newsletter, well worth joining the
society for it. Contact Jim Hayes.

Hope that helps.

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:19:45 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:24:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: ManFont@aol.com
Reply-To: ManFont@aol.com
Message-ID: <970617072400_288505901@emout02.mail.aol.com>
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Viewing Stone WWW Page

Craig Hunt wrote:



Craig,

Thanks for the link refinement. I have visited your site many times and
always with pleasure. 

BTW, I have purchased Felix Rivera's new Suiseki book and have read it from
cover to cover. As a novice in this art I found it inspirational and
educational. I would recommend this book to anyone interested in stone
appreciation.

Sincerely,
Luis Fontanills 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:26:17 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC7C36.EF422920@k1slip30.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca.'" 
Subject: International Collectors Page
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:28:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi group,

Just a short note to everyone...If you missed my first (Home Page) when =
you reviewed the stones  at =
www.triumf.ca/people/craig/viewingstones.htm..here's a little info.  If =
you would like to have your Suiseki / viewing stone published to my site =
at the International Collectors Page, just e-mail me with a JPEG of your =
favorite stone and I will put it on the site.  Please add your name. =
where the stone was collected, the size of the stone, the material (if =
known), what you call it, e.g.. landscape, shape, etc. and the type of =
wood if it is on a daiza.  =20
If you do not have a scanner, just send me the picture, (e-mail: =
ggarcia@vvm.com) I will send you the address where to send the picture.  =
 I will scan it for you and put it on the site, all collectors / =
enthusiast pictures are welcome.  The Art of Suiseki apparently has =
gained momentum, as there are more and more sites, and pictures of =
suiseki appearing on the web, and I would like if possible to at least =
show a representation of each persons stone on this mailing list..

I will look forward from hearing from you and seeing your stones on the =
International Collectors Site.

Sincerely

Garry Garcia
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:46:53 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:14:23 -0700
Message-ID: <199706200414.VAA21428@innovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: John Quinn 
Reply-To: John Quinn 
Subject: suiseki

HELP

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:47:31 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:15:06 -0700
Message-ID: <199706200415.VAA21432@innovation.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: John Quinn 
Reply-To: John Quinn 
Subject: 

REVIEW

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:11:10 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
CC: "Joe Davies" 
Subject: Photographs of Viewing Stones on the net
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:11:01 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Gang;

I wrote Joe Davies  a private email, asking how
he took such a good quality picture of the stone shown on;

http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/joedavies.htm

I was impressed with the detail and clarity shown in this picture, and he
replied;

> ..... and give away ALL my secrets? :-)
> 
> You can if you like. As follows:-
> 
> 1. Take a half decent photo - that mean plains uncluttered background
with
> the stone in focus. For that you need a small aperture - at least f16. I
> use natural light as stones dont photograph too well with flash. So
> overcast day and a tripod are needed as your shutter speed will end up
slow
> to get the small aperture.
> 
> 2. Get photo transferred to Kodak CD Rom (ask at you local camera shop).
> Its the worlds best kept secret.
> 
> 3. Open the CD Rom in your photoshop program - nearly all support the
Kodak
> standard.
> 
> 4. Crop the photo as necessary and adjust the contrast (they usually need
> lightening and brightening for viewing with the net browsers such as
> Netscape and MSIE). Do NOT fiddle around with the piccie making it
prettier
> and removing Aunt Ethel from the background.
> 
> 5. Save as a .jpg file at a compression ratio of around 85% quality which
> gives optimum quality versus small filesize (eg the Taihu piccie is only
> 15K). 
> 
> 6. Bask in the knowledge that your piccie is better than most of the
other
> crap floating around the net. 
> 
> Joe

I hope others find this useful.

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:08:05 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:09:27 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "David J. Waldo" 
Reply-To: "David J. Waldo" 
Subject: Daiza color

All,

I have a discussion question I would like to ask everyone.
It concerns the color of daiza in relation to stone color.

How should the color of a daiza match the color of the
stone?

A related question is what colors are acceptable for daiza?

I have a few stones that are hard sandstone and are very
light in color, almost white.  I have made two daiza for
two different stones.  One from poplar which is a very
light color, sort of off-white.  The other I made of cedar
(as an experiment).  The color is very redish in color
and doesn't look too bad.  However, there is a large contrast
between the stone color and daiza color.  Not to mention
that the red color is not often seen.

What does everyone think about this?  I am anxious to hear
your comments.

David Waldo





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:49:25 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <33B29D0B.7688@txdirect.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:47:07 -0500
From: Mary-Ruth Long Flores 
Reply-To: Mary-Ruth Long Flores 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Daiza color
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

RE: Daiza color,
I think it depends on the stone being shown.  I have a woodworking 
friend who suggested going to the paint store and get the paint/stain 
samples in a range of colors, browns, woods, deep reds, backs, greys, 
whites ect. and using them against the stone. Then see what you like 
best, in the light it will be displayed in. Different light gives colors 
different tones.  You could do similar with fabric scraps.

Mary-Ruth   aagarita@txdirect.net
San Antonio, TX
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:07:41 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Herb Gustafson 
Reply-To: Herb Gustafson 
To: "David J. Waldo" 
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Daiza color
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Herb Gustafson replies,
I have had good results with hardwoods that are fairly neutral in hue
  such as alder or beech rather than highly colored cherry or black
  walnut. This allows me to fine-tune the color and contrast to match
  the darkest hues of the stone. Even sandstone with red veins in it
  can be copied nicely using the rainbow of stain colors available.
  If you oil a portion of your daiza before it is finished, you can
  adjust your first coat; the coat that has the most color influence.

On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, David J. Waldo wrote:

> All,
> 
> I have a discussion question I would like to ask everyone.
> It concerns the color of daiza in relation to stone color.
> 
> How should the color of a daiza match the color of the
> stone?
> 
> A related question is what colors are acceptable for daiza?
> 
> I have a few stones that are hard sandstone and are very
> light in color, almost white.  I have made two daiza for
> two different stones.  One from poplar which is a very
> light color, sort of off-white.  The other I made of cedar
> (as an experiment).  The color is very redish in color
> and doesn't look too bad.  However, there is a large contrast
> between the stone color and daiza color.  Not to mention
> that the red color is not often seen.
> 
> What does everyone think about this?  I am anxious to hear
> your comments.
> 
> David Waldo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:28:03 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <33B2A6BB.7C28@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:28:27 -0400
From: Chris Cochrane 
Reply-To: Chris Cochrane 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "David J. Waldo" 
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Daiza color
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David J. Waldo writes re' color of daiza in relation to stone color:
> How should the color of a daiza match the color of the stone?

I think color is better if not a close match, though of similar tone.  
The stone should be distinguished from the daiza which subtly 
(especially suiseki) and/or elegantly (especially Chinese scholars' 
stones) frames its base.  The exception would be, in my mind an elegant 
dull Chinese scholars' stone which can gain stature from a very formal 
and glossy daiza-- e.g., Mowry (WWW) fig. 29 (p 205). A dull stone 
should have a dull daiza though that is not what I see in stone texts-- 
e.g., Corvello/Yoshimura fig. 124 (p 122), Rivera fig. 5 (p 18).  

If if the daiza is the same color as the stone, I do not think it 
should display the same shade of color.  When using sculpting wax 
(_very_ dark brown) to make temporary daiza, I found that I had to 
emphasize the lip on the daiza to distinguish a black stone.  Even so,
because the wax surface was hand-modeled and therefore (though 
unintentiuonally) somewhat more organic in form than my wood modeling,
the closeness of color, shade and texture precludes such a base from 
ever achieving the beauty of a wood daiza, which should be clearly a 
separate entity. 
 
> A related question is what colors are acceptable for daiza?

Fine-grained, dark woods or solid finishes of black or earth tones
seem favored in texts.  I think one of Joe Davies's zebra-wood daiza of 
light color with naturally dark circles on its exposed front 
extraordinarily compliments a Chinese scholars-style stone' that has 
circular protrusions on its front-- Davies's web page, "Suiseki for 
Sale" #8. 
 
> I have a few stones that are hard sandstone and are very
> light in color, almost white.  I have made two daiza for
> two different stones.  One from poplar which is a very
> light color, sort of off-white.  The other I made of cedar
> (as an experiment).  The color is very redish in color
> and doesn't look too bad.  However, there is a large contrast
> between the stone color and daiza color.  Not to mention
> that the red color is not often seen.

For sandstone with little figure, the large annual rings of cedar might 
be distracting unless they suggests something like the swirling waters 
of Arashiyama for a "carp rising" stone... :)  As for red color, it 
predominates in daiza of fine-grained woods in Rivera's book and 
offers an earthy tone easily attained in woods but less likely seen in
stones that are not of the desert.  Thus, reddish wood daiza seem a 
great option for most stones.

I see stones are offered for sale with poplar-wood daiza (usually 
stained dark if not painted).  I'd always paint poplar; the hand-rubbed 
paint finish would be preferable to clear finish.  I think the stone is 
short-changed if obviously presented on softwood, unless the wood 
presents some special character as is possible with cedar.
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, David.  I look forward to learning as 
others answer.

Chris... C. Cochrane, sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:57:51 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706270057.BAA11727@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Chris Cochrane" , "David J. Waldo" 
CC: 
Subject: Re: Daiza color
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:10:47 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>  I think one of Joe Davies's zebra-wood daiza of 
> light color with naturally dark circles on its exposed front 
> extraordinarily compliments a Chinese scholars-style stone' that has 
> circular protrusions on its front-- Davies's web page, "Suiseki for 
> Sale" #8. 

Thanks Chris, the cheques in the post. :-)

The wood is olive, I have only used it twice for stands, and for the reason
your eagle eye has spotted.

My two ha'pence .....

The marriage between the stand and stone (or suiban and stone) is the key.
They must harmonise and work visually. This needs the colour, tone,
patination, shape and style of the stone to be taken into account when
designing the stand and choosing the wood. 

Given the choice, mostly deep red/maroon type colours usually work well. If
you use Padauk wood for your stands you wont go far wrong. Sometimes the
choice of wood is a compromise eg. my 'Ghost' stone, I couldnt get any lunp
of wood large enough except for Lime, so staining was a necessity, but I
would urge you to use the natural colour of the wood wherever possible.

The one aspect I thing vital is to choose woods either close-grained, so
that the grain is subtle, or woods with pronounced grain (such as the Olive
Chris referred to) where the grain provides a focal point and compliments
the stone itself.

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:00:20 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC827C.0CFD1740@k4slip405.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: FW: daiza colour
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:57:48 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Garry =20

-----Original Message-----
From:	Garry Garcia [SMTP:ggarcia@vvm.com]
Sent:	Thursday, June 26, 1997 9:55 PM
To:	'viewing_stones@triumph.ca'
Subject:	daiza colour

Looking at the antique stones in the Rosenblum collection, and several =
other examples of stones originating from Asia, it appears that most of =
the diaza are dark in colour, even the lighter almost white Chinese =
Scholar Stones (Taihu) have dark stands.  The colour is of the utmost =
importance, however the design is even more important, the carving can =
make even a medium quality stone look good.  The Asians use both simple, =
and quite complicated carvings in their daiza, and the wood is without =
exception dark.  The carving always compliments the stone.  I feel that =
you must have a feel for the structure of the stone to be able to carve =
a good daiza, and get the colour correct, remember the ancients used =
these stones for meditation, and study of nature, keep this in mind when =
working with a daiza.  If you use a range of darker colours or exotic =
woods such as padauk it is very hard to get it wrong. I have worked with =
padauk (from Africa) and it is one of the easiest, and one of the most =
beautiful types of wood to work with.   There are examples on Joe Davies =
site of daiza made of padauk, to see this wood in person is even more =
impressive.  I feel that the light colours are more of a western design, =
and are not correct, for suiseki....perhaps for viewing stones with a =
western touch, but not the traditional suiseki.  =20

If you want to see some excellent examples of a marriage between stone =
and wood take a look at some of the stones from the Rosenblum collection =
now on exhibit at Harvard University....just search the www for Harvard =
university, go to the museums and exhibits....If you need help finding =
it e-mail me.  On my site I have the phone number to order the catalogue =
featuring  the Rosenblum collection, it features 80 stones that are some =
of the best in the world, and an extensive study of the stones, the =
daiza are inspirational, please note the colour, it is dark.=20



Garry =20


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:56:24 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <33B4453F.451A@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:57:03 -0400
From: Chris Cochrane 
Reply-To: Chris Cochrane 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: FW: daiza colour
References: <01BC827C.0CFD1740@k4slip405.vvm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Garry Garcia writes:
> Looking at the antique stones in the Rosenblum collection, and 
> several other examples of stones originating from Asia, it appears
> that most of the diaza are dark in colour, even the lighter almost
> white Chinese Scholar Stones (Taihu) have dark stands.

While the oldest daiza are generally dark, many of the stands are 
considerably lighter than the stones which they display (#3, 20, 45, 66 
et al.) including #6, which dates from the mid 17th-18th century.

Most of the stands are constructed from dark close-grained cabinet woods 
and others are constructed from light or medium-toned wood that has been 
lacquered or stained to appear dark (e.g., #31 from 18th century). 
Stands with a flat finish always seem to be of stained wood.

Two of the stands are VERY different.  One stand was formed by 
encouraging a section of root to grow around the rock with nature's 
custom fitting.  A second is a bronze stand made by Rosenblum for a 
stone he waters daily to maintain moss on its flat summit.

I must admit that I can hardly wait to hear others' opinions on the 
planting or allowance of moss on a Scholar's Stone.  I think if a growth 
adds the appearance of fighting adversity and aging to a stone, it 
should not be seen as the equivalent to debris.  Others might argue that 
viewing stones should be washed and handled to form a skin that would 
preclude any growth.  Certainly stones vary in their possibilities for 
best presentation.   

Many of the Chinese daiza are polished to a high gloss.  Often these 
stands have a very pronounced lip and they say to the viewer, "on my 
shoulders be prepared to view something very special."  

Other stands almost seem an outgrowth of the stone on which they sit.  
Many resemble open-work root stands.  The finish of these stands are 
most likely to match the finish of the rock which sits atop them.

The Rosenblum book does an exceptional job of picturing, describing and 
attempting to date the daiza for each featured stone.

Chris... C. Cochrane, sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:15:35 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <33B535D1.6B91@ppp.nasionet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:03:29 +0800
From: "MOHD FAUZIE BIN ABD KARIM" 
Reply-To: "MOHD FAUZIE BIN ABD KARIM" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "David J. Waldo" 
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Daiza color
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David J. Waldo wrote:
> > How should the color of a daiza match the color of the
> stone?
> 
> A related question is what colors are acceptable for daiza?
> 

It is interesting to see a few different opinions regarding the color of 
daiza. However I don't think any are inaccurate or any one all the more 
appropriate. I would say Garry has grasped the general concept where 
'feel' is the key importance. The daiza should compliment and highlight 
that feel for the structure of the stone as well as the owners own 
'feel' of the stone itself!

Yes, as Garry says most of the old Asian collections have dark coloured 
daiza, in fact we prefer(not must have though)darker dais. Then again as 
we collect stones that are darker and darker??? Imagine the ideal 
dark(almost totally black) stone - how dark a daiza can you make or 
paint or stain to?? Contrast has to be considered too and to this 
effect, there is really no rule to what is an acceptable colour.

Another important factor is the sectional profile and the feet of the 
dai. Certain amount of skill in staining and carving has to be acquired 
and more often than not, it is this skilled that is judged upon in 
competitions. The daiza's function and harmony with the stone carries 
weight in the stones total value!

Some categories of suiseki do not go well on wooden stands or bases at 
all (regardless of colour)! There are also certain schools of thought 
that encourage ingenuity and creativity. A moss grown base is not 
uncommon and some even display their stones on plain pin cushions.

There are also the naturalism fanatics who do not even carve or stain 
their wooden base. They use termites to do the carving. They believe 
that suiseki is an art of naturalism, as such should be displayed with 
only naturally shaped accessories. This also adds age to the displayed 
specimen. 

High gloss is another subjective matter. In some old collections, the 
daiza are maintained with a matt finish. Gloss tends to reduce the 
grandeur and the age illusion that a matt finish can do to an antique 
collection.

Hope this gives you some insight to a Malaysians perspective on daiza!

Best regards
Abu Hassan Abdul Jalil
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 05:28:47 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:33:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: ManFont@aol.com
Reply-To: ManFont@aol.com
Message-ID: <970629083319_1621924602@emout20.mail.aol.com>
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Daiza, Suiban, and other methods.

As I've stated in a previous post I am a novice in the art of Suiseki, but
have been fully immersed in the visual arts for over twenty years. It is as
both an architect and artist coupled with the above mentioned naivete with
regards to Suiseki that I offer the following thoughts:

Daiza, Suiban, and Other Methods of Display

In order to properly evaluate the validity or correctness of any receptacle
for suiseki one must gauge certain criteria:

Functional - The receptacle must provide for a stable base in order to
physically balance the suiseki, and protect it from damage.

Aesthetic - The principles of art; form and space, propotion, balance,
counterpoint, light, texture, color, harmony, contrast, etc. must be brought
into harmony with the suiseki. It is important to note that the receptacle
and suiseki become an integrated whole (gestalt). Each element mentally
influences the perception of the other. It is imperative that the author seek
to understand the inherent properties and characteristics of the original
stone in order to increase or isolate them through proper display.

Symbolic - On this level the receptacle can become many things. For example,
it can provide a link to the concept of ground - earth in daiza, or as in
suiban - water, and to all the memories and emotions that these things elicit
in the viewer. Note that these particular symbolic links are more successful
on very horizontal surfaces (the horizon of the land and sea). It is self
evident that the appropriate receptacle be selected to complement the stone
symbolically.  

NOTE: The previous criteria overlap in complex ways.

Having said the following, which by no means exhausts the subject, I propose
that orthodoxy of display not be the only way. If a stone suggests an
alternative method of presentation in order to fully realize its potential
and fits the above criteria, then by all means do it. Experimentation based
on sensitivity, not just novelty for its own sake, will in time no doubt lead
to new orthodoxies.

Sincerely,

Luis Fontanills
Miami, Florida  

  


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:00:49 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "Garry Garcia" , "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Rosenblum collection, Re: daiza colour
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:05:24 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Garry Garcia  wrote;

> If you want to see some excellent examples of a marriage between stone
and wood take a look at some of the stones from the Rosenblum collection
now on exhibit at Harvard University....just search the www for Harvard
university, go to the museums and exhib
> nspirational, please note the colour, it is dark. 

The page address is;

http://www.artmuseums.harvard.edu/ExhibitionPages/CurrentExh/Rocks1.html

I've added this link to my viewing stone page at;

http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/viewingstones.htm

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:11:56 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Stone Store, Stands & Book
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:16:33 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi fellow Stone Agers;

On Saturday I discovered a Chinese stone store near my home, and they had
some amazing stuff for sale, although most of it was the carved
semi-precious stone sculptures, although they did have a variety of
scholars stones, but one of the most surprising things I saw was the
quantity of precarved stone stands, they literally had a room full of all
sorts of sizes, shapes & styles of stands.

I was short on time, so didn't get as much time as I would have like to
explore the store, but I shall visit it again when I have more time.

They had a book {in English} that I'd never heard anyone mention before
called something like; "Rare Stones of China", published by something like
the "Shanghai Publishing Company". It looked like a thorough book from a
quick flip through, does anyone know this book?

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:41:01 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:44:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Herb Gustafson 
Reply-To: Herb Gustafson 
To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
CC: viewing_stones 
Subject: Re: Stone Store, Stands & Book
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Ohhh Craig,
That did it !
I just MUST come up your way soon !  :))

On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Craig J. Hunt wrote:

> Hi fellow Stone Agers;
> 
> On Saturday I discovered a Chinese stone store near my home, and they had
> some amazing stuff for sale, although most of it was the carved
> semi-precious stone sculptures, although they did have a variety of
> scholars stones, but one of the most surprising things I saw was the
> quantity of precarved stone stands, they literally had a room full of all
> sorts of sizes, shapes & styles of stands.
> 
> I was short on time, so didn't get as much time as I would have like to
> explore the store, but I shall visit it again when I have more time.
> 
> They had a book {in English} that I'd never heard anyone mention before
> called something like; "Rare Stones of China", published by something like
> the "Shanghai Publishing Company". It looked like a thorough book from a
> quick flip through, does anyone know this book?
> 
> Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
> craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:43:13 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
Reply-To: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
To: "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: Re: Rosenblum collection, Re: daiza colour
Message-ID: <0010200000752679000002L092*@MHS>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:34:11 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Craig and Garry for the information; I'm hoping to visit the mus=
eum on
Wednesday of this week armed with all this knowledge!

I'll send along a trip report...


Thanks,

Gail
gail.e.sheldon@ussev.mail.abb.com
=
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:41:34 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706302246.XAA03811@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Craig J. Hunt" , "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Re: Stone Store, Stands & Book
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:19:46 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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From Craig...

> They had a book {in English} that I'd never heard anyone mention before
> called something like; "Rare Stones of China", published by something
like
> the "Shanghai Publishing Company". It looked like a thorough book from a
> quick flip through, does anyone know this book?

Yes, its excellent, but mega-expensive here, hope its cheaper in your neck
of the woods.

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:41:40 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199706302246.XAA03825@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: , "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: Re: Rosenblum collection, Re: daiza colour
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 23:22:21 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gail wrote..

> Thanks Craig and Garry for the information; I'm hoping to visit the
museum on
> Wednesday of this week armed with all this knowledge!
> I'll send along a trip report...

... and send me stone 2, I'm sure Mr R wont miss it.

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:16:37 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC85A3.9FFC3240@k6slip604.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Joe Davies site
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:12:16 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Hi Group

I just finished a tour of Joe Davies newly designed site.....wow!!

Not only is the  new design very professional, but the pictures and quality of his stones  are some of the best I have seen on the web..

Joe, I want to be one of the first to congratulate you....don't change a thing.

Thanks for sharing its premier with us.

Garry Garcia
ggarcia@vvm.com 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:47:18 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:52:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn boyd 
Reply-To: Lynn boyd 
To: Joe Davies 
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Joe Davies site
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

     
   Well, Joe,
       In a word ?   ELEGANT!  
       The text is easy to read, crisp, well-spaced. I like
         your choice of fonts.
       I like the buttons for the links - functional and attractive.
       Your photos are always superb.
       
    And if a certain gentleman in the UK was not pushing me to
    complete an illustration of one of his rocks I would rave on,
    but so-called gentleman is a character of known impatience,
    so back to the drawing board. (sigh)
       Lynn  
     

    Source: geocities.com/tokyo/garden/1666

               ( geocities.com/tokyo/garden)                   ( geocities.com/tokyo)