Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 14:42:33 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707032147.OAA17545@blackbird.jetlink.net>
From: "kent" 
Reply-To: "kent" 
To: 
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:38:06 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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hi guy,
thanks for the info, a list is a great idea.  i am having pictures taken
now to put on my web site along with all the other mineral related products
i deal with.  i am planning a trip to the merced river to collect in two
weeks.  also i have just been shown some green marble in arizona with milky
white quartz, the piece looked like a snow capped mountain range, hope to
go back and collect that site in the fall. 
badkitty
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:14:58 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707040019.BAA16235@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Chinese Scholar's Rocks
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:25:57 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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For those of you with an interest I have lodged my introductory essay on
the subject at my site, accessible via the Chinese Scholar's Rocks page.

Joe Davies, England

email:- Joe.Davies@BTInternet.com
web:-  http://www.btinternet.com/~bonsai.suiseki/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 06:54:47 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:59:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: ManFont@aol.com
Reply-To: ManFont@aol.com
Message-ID: <970704095924_-2045436355@emout11.mail.aol.com>
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Miniaturization - Suiseki

I wrote this for the Internet Bonsai Club but felt it was equally appropriate
to explain some of the appeal of suiseki:


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 16:35:54 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707041721.SAA24422@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: NAVSS
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:12:51 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am creating a website on behalf of Jim Hayes for the North American
Viewing Stones Society.

It would assist me if you have any suggestions as to links to other Viewing
Stone related sites that I should include on the Links page. So far my list
is: mine, Craig Coussins, Craig Hunt, David Waldo, Garry Garcia, this
mail-list.

The site should be online in a couple of weeks, I'll let you know when.

Thanks

Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 08:28:56 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707051531.QAA03160@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Craig Coussins" 
Reply-To: "Craig Coussins" 
To: 
Subject: SITE UPDATE
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:27:45 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Craig Coussins Site has new stones and a section specialising July and
August on Waterfall Suiseki. Go to the site and go into Bonsai and Suiseki
and then go into the Suiseki Window. All clicks.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 11:43:25 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
Reply-To: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
To: "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: Oh how I want to go back....
Message-ID: <0010200000802665000002L052*@MHS>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:31:54 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My visit last week to Harvard University's Arthur M. Sackler Museum to =
view the
first major exhibition and study of its kind in the West, Worlds Within=
 Worlds:
The Richard Rosenblum Collection of Chinese Scholars' Stones was simply=
 not
enough. The exhibition features eighty select rocks (called qishi or "f=
antastic
rocks") from the largest, finest, most comprehensive collection of such=

materials in the world.

Organized by Robert D. Mowry, Curator of Chinese Art at the Harvard Uni=
versity
Art Museums, the exhibition is accompanied by a fully illustrated catal=
og
exploring the history, aesthetics, typology, and scientific examination=
 of
Chinese scholars' rocks.  Fortunately, I had ordered my copy previous t=
o my
visit, had perused it, and was somewhat familiar with the collection.  =
I say
'somewhat'...although the catalog is exquisite in its presentation, mer=
e
pictures no matter the quality simply cannot do the subjects justice.
Literally, my breath was taken away when we stepped into the totally qu=
iet,
austere atmosphere of the gallery.

It was early in the day and we were totally alone (except for a securit=
y guy
with squeaky sneakers...I asked could he please stop pacing?).  As I mo=
ved from
stone to stone I found myself opening to the appropriate page in the ca=
talog
trying to force myself into remembering each detail.  Funny, stones tha=
t
impressed me in picture blew me away in reality, but stones that I thou=
ght
"mediocre" absolutely took on life right before my eyes.

The second stone in the collection, "rock in the form of a seated tiger=
" (No
Joe, I could not slip it into my bag for shipment to you.  Sorry!) I th=
ought
was going to leap out onto my shoulders. I was so impressed.  Being the=

touchy-feely person that I am, I had to put my hands on each rock I
could...until I was told "no, no, no".  (Then I only touched when her b=
ack was
turned.)

It was in this chastising conversation with the security guard that I f=
ound out
that the rock numbered 26, "rock in the form of a cresting wave or a la=
ndscape
with massed peaks" had previously been displayed with a mallet since th=
e stone
was so resonate, and the public was invited to give it a hit.  Apparent=
ly some
(idiot) person wailed it and in doing so, chipped the stone slightly.  =
I
understand that Mr. Rosenblum went ballistic ...the mallet is no longer=
 present
and the public is discouraged from touching.  Be that as it may, I coul=
d not
resist...I had to feel the life as much as I could.

I spent much time admiring one of the smaller stones in the collection,=
 simply
beautiful in its striking contrast of black and white, numbered 4 "mini=
ature
rock or brushrest in the form of a mountain range" a favorite of mine f=
rom the
catalog. I found myself wondering about the person or persons who might=
 have
put it to good use...the literati of the time and their fine calligraph=
y.  I
wondered also how long it might have been until its stand was made...si=
nce the
rock was obviously older than the stand (which was of a more contempora=
ry or of
Quing-date design).

It was then that I took notice of the different styles of stands...some=
 are
extremely ornate, some difficult to differentiate between end of stone =
and
beginning of stand.  Others were much more simple, refined and elegant.=
 For
instance, in the Ming period stands were designed to be much wider than=
 the
rocks they support.  Some rocks in their stand simply defied gravity or=
 so it
appeared.  On two I noticed that there was an equally ornate wedge (car=
ved like
the stand) used to hold the rock in place.

One such stand was designed for rock numbered 29, "tall rock in the for=
m of an
honorable old man."  A truly awesome piece, displayed so that someone (=
of my
height anyway) had to look up into his eyes.  I wish I could describe t=
he
feelings that washed over me as I did...a contemplative sense of inner =
peace
and balance.  How could this be? I asked myself...without answer.

Another quite interesting stand grew, yes grew, for rock numbered 64, "=
mountain
stone".  The stone is 45x57x17cm...solid yellow wax stone.  Apparently,=
 it had
been set into a freshly carved section of root which was allowed to gro=
w around
the stone becoming a custom fitted stand.  This might have been done to=

assimilate the stands, traditional of the Ming dynasty, carved to resem=
ble root
systems.  Impressive?  To say the least!

The special exhibition Rocks, Mountains, Landscapes, and Gardens: The E=
ssence
of East Asian Painting also on display as a companion exhibition explor=
es the
place of rocks in the greater contest of East Asian art including ones =
for
garden and studio.  Although I thought myself somewhat familiar with As=
ian art,
I never realized the special aesthetic qualities of rocks displayed in
painting.  Rocks appealed to the scholars' love of mountains and things=
 wrought
by nature which, much like landscape painting, represent " a microcosm =
of the
universe on which the scholar could meditate within the confines of gar=
den or
studio." (quoted from info at the web site)

I hear you wondering, how long is this getting to be?  I'll close for n=
ow
saying that I wished you were all with me; conversation would have been=
 a
delight.  Halfway through the visit we decided to have lunch during whi=
ch my
husband said something like "I wonder what those scholars' pondered whi=
le they
gazed upon those rocks?  Should I mow the lawn today, or put it off unt=
il
tomorrow?  Or perhaps, Bud or Bud-lite?"  Funny, he himself doesn't dri=
nk
either.  Spouses!!! You gotta love them.

That's all for now folks!

Gail Sheldon
gail.e.sheldon@ussev.mail.abb.com

Just one more...I saw a dragon!  Stone numbered 1, "stone pendant or ch=
ime in
the form of a soiled dragon.  There's just no quesiton about it, it's a=

dragon.  Perhaps turned to stone by some magician for disobediance or
something, but it's a dragon nonetheless.

If you have any questions, not that I'm expert, I just have lots of lit=
erature,
ask.
And...if you get even the slightest chance to view the collection, snat=
ch it
up!  If you're in Boston, MA before 7/20, call me.  I'll go with you!

Gail
=
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 18:05:23 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC8BDA.45B8C680@k1slip136.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Last offer, and thank you to Gail
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:05:12 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok everyone, I made an offer to you to post your Suiseki / viewing =
stones on my International Collectors Page at my site, got a big fat =
zero, I thought you would jump at the chance to let the world see your =
favorite stone, and let the group see it as well...anyway here's the =
offer once again....you can attach a JPEG to an e-mail, or send me a =
photo, and I will scan it and put it on the page...try to tell me where =
it was collected, it's size, what you call it (Landscape, shape, =
scholars rock, image, etc.), and what type of wood you used for your =
daiza, if it is displayed on a daiza.

Gail, thank you for your report on the Rosenblum collection, I have gone =
through the catalogue at least three dozen times, and it is amazing, but =
the way you described the exhibit, was most entertaining....are you a =
writer?  I would have loved to hear more, as I am sure everyone else =
would have.  I am going to shoot for the exhibit when it gets a little =
closer to Central Texas, I have to go now that I have read what you saw. =
 Again thank you so much.....oh by the way, if I ever need something =
written I know who to ask.

Take care, hope to hear from at least a couple of you, I think we number =
at least twenty.

Sincerely

Garry =20

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 03:36:05 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707091038.LAA08306@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: , "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: Re: Oh how I want to go back....
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:12:55 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Great report Gail, thanks

I'll see u all in Zurich next year (For those of u that dont know me I'll
be the one struggling with a large black sack with the word 'swag' written
on the side of it with #2 peeping out).

Joe

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:30:00 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC8C9E.7EBD7C40@k4slip415.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: International Collectors Page
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:29:51 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yesterday evening I sent out a note to everyone, offering once again to =
put a pic of their favorite Suiseki on my site/your site (Suiseki =
belongs to us all, I just manage the site)....I must apologize, I said =
that my offer got zero response....well there are some that did send =
pictures,  and to them thank you..Joe Davies, Chris Cochrane, Craig =
Coussins, Felix Rivera, Abu Hassan Abdul Jali, Dave Sampson, and David =
Waldo, I have had comments on each and every one of your stones, all =
good comments I might add.

Thanks

Garry  e-mail :  ggarcia@vvm.com =20

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:27:20 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707102029.VAA27975@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Japanese writing - Help!
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:17:46 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Fellow stoneheads

Can you help?  I have a scan of the wooden custom made old box which
contains an antique Furuyaishi stone (from Japan). The box, as is the
custom, has several characters written in black ink on the cover. Most
probably it is the finders name, location etc. My good friend Dave has
acquired this stone and its a beaut and would love to know what the
characters actually say - in English.

Can anyone of the group read Japanese characters? or know of anyone that
can? If so, I will forward you the scan to decipher, and to reap a pint or
seven from Dave as reward :-) 
(I encouraged him to purchase this stone so I feel responsible in finding a
solution to this little puzzle for him!)

Thanks
Joe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:21:01 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn boyd 
Reply-To: Lynn boyd 
To: Joe Davies 
CC: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Re: Japanese writing - Help!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Joe Davies wrote:

> Fellow stoneheads
> 
> Can anyone of the group read Japanese characters? or know of anyone that
> can? If so, I will forward you the scan to decipher, and to reap a pint or
> seven from Dave as reward :-) 
> Thanks
> Joe
----------------------

   Joe,
      I have a very close Japanese friend, Teruko, who will get an
   answer if she cannot read it herself.  Her husband, also a close
   friend is a prof. on campus, computes to their family in Japan.
   Surely should come up with something.  He uses a scanner BTW.
     So send me the scan if you like and I will fwd it across town
   to them.  They would enjoy.
     Lynn
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:02:43 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <9707108685.AA868571887@okway.okstate.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 16:53:18 -0600
From: "Tom LaBron" 
Reply-To: "Tom LaBron" 
To: , , 
Subject: Re[2]: Stone Store, Stands & Book
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


     Joe,
     
        Are you sure this is the title.  I found a book titled China's Rare 
     Stones, but nothing under Rare Stones of China.  The Chinese title is 
     Chung-hua chi Shih with a publisher of Shang-hai ku chi chu pan she, 
     published in 1994 with 248 pages with color illustrations.
     
     Regards from Pawnee America.
     
     Tom La Bron
     LTA, Oklahoma State University
     Office:    norbal@okway.okstate.edu
     Home:      norbalt@juno.com
     
     -----------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Stone Store, Stands & Book
Author:  "Joe Davies"  at SMTP
Date:    6/29/97 11:19 PM


From Craig...
     
> They had a book {in English} that I'd never heard anyone mention before 
> called something like; "Rare Stones of China", published by something 
like
> the "Shanghai Publishing Company". It looked like a thorough book from a 
> quick flip through, does anyone know this book?
     
Yes, its excellent, but mega-expensive here, hope its cheaper in your neck 
of the woods.
     
Joe
     


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:26:57 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC8D6F.9D565BA0@k5slip508.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: RE: Thank you
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:26:52 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Thank you to everyone who did respond today, I appreciate it very much.  I have a spot reserved on the site for you.

take care

Garry  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:58:13 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707112200.XAA18276@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: 
CC: "JAMES J HAYES" 
Subject: New NAVSS Site
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:07:40 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am just putting the finishing touches to a compact website that I have
created for NAVSS. It is at
http:\\www.btinternet.com\~bonsai.suiseki\navss\home.htm
You can see by the URL that I am hosting it at my own site until we set-up
a specific site for NAVSS, but the NAVSS site is separate and doesn't
connect to my own site apart from the normal links.

I know some (many?) of you are members of NAVSS and I suspect that like me,
you are supportive of the society and the wonderful work that Jim does. To
that end if you would like to put a link at your own sites to the NAVSS
site that would be helpful. If you would like to use the animated logo I
made for NAVSS which is on my own homepage, please feel free to do so. You
can link it straight into your own site by referencing its URL
http:\\www.btinternet.com\~bonsai.suiseki\nav-anim.gif or I can send it to
you attached to a mail, or you can just simply download it off my site.

If you have any constructive criticisms of the NAVSS site or ideas
(reasonable not 'wish-list') then please let myself or Jim know.

Thanks
Joe

Joe Davies, England
email:- Joe.Davies@BTInternet.com
web:-  http://www.btinternet.com/~bonsai.suiseki/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:02:20 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:04:35 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: "viewing_stones@triumf.ca" 
From: David/Danielle Waldo 
Reply-To: David/Danielle Waldo 
Subject: Daiza carving

All,

Thank you very much for your insightfull replies to my question
about daiza color.  What I have gained is that many colors are
appropriate for daiza color as long as the daiza and color
complement the stone.  One of my main concerns was that the color
of a daiza could be too close to the color of the stone.  In Gail's
description of the Rosenblum collection she mentions a stone
that blends in with the daiza.  So it seems that daiza sometime
very closely match the color of the stone.

This brings me to another question I have about daiza.  I have
carved a few daiza for my stones and have not put the stones too
deep into the daiza.  I was wondering what people think about
the depth of the stone in the daiza?  I have a stone I am carving
a daiza for right now (well, not right this minute) and it does
not have a flat bottom.  The stone sits upright and touches at
about 3-4 locations but does not touch all around the edge and
in the middle of the stone.  Is it OK to have a stone that sits in the
daiza at a few locations and does not touch the daiza in the
middle?  If I make the above stone sit in the daiza deeper it
will look like it is very deep in the daiza at some of the edges
since the sides are not verticle.

Crude drawing to show the stone sitting in the daiza too deep:

             /
--------    /
 daiza  |  / stone
        | /
        |/_________

I am tempted to come to the conclusion that as long as the stone
is stable on the daiza and looks like it sits in the daiza in
locations there is no need to make it sit in the daiza deeper.
I am eager to hear what everyone thinks.

David Waldo



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:16:44 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC8E2E.F9D8B520@k5slip503.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: FW: Daiza carving
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:16:43 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David,

Your last conclusion is correct in my opinion...as long as the stone is =
sitting correctly, stable, balanced, and looks good there is no need to =
bury it to the hilt in the daiza, you may hide the true beauty of the =
stone in doing this.

There are many stones that do not touch the daiza in the middle, or =
edge, and look beautiful. Many of the Ancient Chinese Scholars Rocks =
almost look as if they are balanced in mid air with very little of the =
rock touching the daiza....the Worlds Within Worlds Catalogue from =
Harvard has some fine examples, it may be worth the investment to buy =
this book for reference, or some of the others on the market.  I have a =
link to most of the available books and their publisher on my =
site....BOOKS & LINKS Page.  But I think one of the best things to do is =
follow your inner feelings, that's the way it was done a couple thousand =
years ago, and I am sure they turned out very nice.

I am sure many in the group follow this practice, and go on =
intuition,,,keep in mind this is an art form of balance, beauty, and =
harmony with nature, there are some hard fast rules, but it is mainly =
free style, and you are the judge of what makes the union between stone =
and wood...

Just my opinion, hope it helps a little.
thanks
 =20
Garry =20

-----Original Message-----
From:	David/Danielle Waldo [SMTP:dwaldo@telepath.com]
Sent:	Friday, July 11, 1997 1:05 PM
To:	viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject:	Daiza carving

All,

Thank you very much for your insightfull replies to my question
about daiza color.  What I have gained is that many colors are
appropriate for daiza color as long as the daiza and color
complement the stone.  One of my main concerns was that the color
of a daiza could be too close to the color of the stone.  In Gail's
description of the Rosenblum collection she mentions a stone
that blends in with the daiza.  So it seems that daiza sometime
very closely match the color of the stone.

This brings me to another question I have about daiza.  I have
carved a few daiza for my stones and have not put the stones too
deep into the daiza.  I was wondering what people think about
the depth of the stone in the daiza?  I have a stone I am carving
a daiza for right now (well, not right this minute) and it does
not have a flat bottom.  The stone sits upright and touches at
about 3-4 locations but does not touch all around the edge and
in the middle of the stone.  Is it OK to have a stone that sits in the
daiza at a few locations and does not touch the daiza in the
middle?  If I make the above stone sit in the daiza deeper it
will look like it is very deep in the daiza at some of the edges
since the sides are not verticle.

Crude drawing to show the stone sitting in the daiza too deep:

             /
--------    /
 daiza  |  / stone
        | /
        |/_________

I am tempted to come to the conclusion that as long as the stone
is stable on the daiza and looks like it sits in the daiza in
locations there is no need to make it sit in the daiza deeper.
I am eager to hear what everyone thinks.

David Waldo




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:44:36 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Herb Gustafson 
Reply-To: Herb Gustafson 
To: Garry Garcia 
CC: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Re: FW: Daiza carving
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


UUUmmmm.
When I was studying suiseki in Japan, I was told that the stand was
  called a Dai. Further, that daiza refered to either the plural, or
  to the general concept of display of viewing stones. I am sure
  that there are those who have come across other information.
  I would be interested in your comments.
Herb Gustafson

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:53:50 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707120956.KAA14468@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Garry Garcia" , "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Re: Daiza carving
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:50:44 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Regarding the latest notes from Garry and David, I just wanted to add that
there is a _big_ difference between the Chinese and Japanese styles. The
subtle, understated stones and stands of the Japanese Suiseki are a
complete contrast to the grandiose Chinese Scholar Stone stands, and one
should be aware of whether one is carving a Suiseki-style or Scholars
Stone-style stand i.e. an ornate Chinese style stand for a low distant
mountain stone would look wrong, and vice versa.

Joe

----------
From: Garry Garcia 
To: 'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'
Subject: FW: Daiza carving
Date: 12 July 1997 01:16

David,

Your last conclusion is correct in my opinion...as long as the stone is
sitting correctly, stable, balanced, and looks good there is no need to
bury it to the hilt in the daiza, you may hide the true beauty of the stone
in doing this.

There are many stones that do not touch the daiza in the middle, or edge,
and look beautiful. Many of the Ancient Chinese Scholars Rocks almost look
as if they are balanced in mid air with very little of the rock touching
the daiza....the Worlds Within Worlds Catalogue from Harvard has some fine
examples, it may be worth the investment to buy this book for reference, or
some of the others on the market.  I have a link to most of the available
books and their publisher on my site....BOOKS & LINKS Page.  But I think
one of the best things to do is follow your inner feelings, that's the way
it was done a couple thousand years ago, and I am sure they turned out very
nice.

I am sure many in the group follow this practice, and go on
intuition,,,keep in mind this is an art form of balance, beauty, and
harmony with nature, there are some hard fast rules, but it is mainly free
style, and you are the judge of what makes the union between stone and
wood...

Just my opinion, hope it helps a little.
thanks
  
Garry  

-----Original Message-----
From:	David/Danielle Waldo [SMTP:dwaldo@telepath.com]
Sent:	Friday, July 11, 1997 1:05 PM
To:	viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject:	Daiza carving

All,

Thank you very much for your insightfull replies to my question
about daiza color.  What I have gained is that many colors are
appropriate for daiza color as long as the daiza and color
complement the stone.  One of my main concerns was that the color
of a daiza could be too close to the color of the stone.  In Gail's
description of the Rosenblum collection she mentions a stone
that blends in with the daiza.  So it seems that daiza sometime
very closely match the color of the stone.

This brings me to another question I have about daiza.  I have
carved a few daiza for my stones and have not put the stones too
deep into the daiza.  I was wondering what people think about
the depth of the stone in the daiza?  I have a stone I am carving
a daiza for right now (well, not right this minute) and it does
not have a flat bottom.  The stone sits upright and touches at
about 3-4 locations but does not touch all around the edge and
in the middle of the stone.  Is it OK to have a stone that sits in the
daiza at a few locations and does not touch the daiza in the
middle?  If I make the above stone sit in the daiza deeper it
will look like it is very deep in the daiza at some of the edges
since the sides are not verticle.

Crude drawing to show the stone sitting in the daiza too deep:

             /
--------    /
 daiza  |  / stone
        | /
        |/_________

I am tempted to come to the conclusion that as long as the stone
is stable on the daiza and looks like it sits in the daiza in
locations there is no need to make it sit in the daiza deeper.
I am eager to hear what everyone thinks.

David Waldo



----------

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:53:58 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199707120956.KAA14457@snow.btinternet.com>
From: "Joe Davies" 
Reply-To: "Joe Davies" 
To: "Herb Gustafson" , "Garry Garcia" 
CC: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: Re: FW: Daiza carving
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:49:17 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

We used to term the stand a dai, then a while ago the European Suiseki
Assoc were told by the Japanese Suiseki Association that dai refered to a
simple unadorned plank or board of wood, rather than a custom crafted
stand, and that we
should use the term daiza. In fact, they apparently thought it most amusing
that we were calling our stands 'planks'. I also believe this same info was
made available to Felix and others in the US. Whatever, there seems to be a
time that we all
switched from dai to daiza. Perhaps we should just call them simply
'stands'.

Joe

----------
> From: Herb Gustafson 
> To: Garry Garcia 
> Cc: 'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'
> Subject: Re: FW: Daiza carving
> Date: 12 July 1997 07:46
> 
> 
> UUUmmmm.
> When I was studying suiseki in Japan, I was told that the stand was
>   called a Dai. Further, that daiza refered to either the plural, or
>   to the general concept of display of viewing stones. I am sure
>   that there are those who have come across other information.
>   I would be interested in your comments.
> Herb Gustafson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:44:51 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: ManFont@aol.com
Reply-To: ManFont@aol.com
Message-ID: <970712074704_175389086@emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Dai and Daiza - The Meaning of ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Herb Gustafson in a message dated 97-07-12 07:24:32 EDT, you write:

<< UUUmmmm.
 When I was studying suiseki in Japan, I was told that the stand was
   called a Dai. Further, that daiza refered to either the plural, or
   to the general concept of display of viewing stones. I am sure
   that there are those who have come across other information.
   I would be interested in your comments. >>


Peter Aradi posted at the IBC (Internet Bonsai Club) the following on his
excellent and informative trip to Japan:




I too would like a clarification of the meaning of the words dai and daiz=
a.

Sincerely,

Luis Fontanills
Miami, Florida


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:50:11 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <01BC8EFC.C7C4D680@k8slip4.vvm.com>
From: Garry Garcia 
Reply-To: Garry Garcia 
To: "'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'" 
Subject: FW: Daiza carving
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:38:55 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thank you for the clarification Joe.

Garry  

-----Original Message-----
From:	Joe Davies [SMTP:Joe.Davies@btinternet.com]
Sent:	Friday, July 11, 1997 4:51 AM
To:	Garry Garcia; 'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'
Subject:	Re: Daiza carving

Regarding the latest notes from Garry and David, I just wanted to add that
there is a _big_ difference between the Chinese and Japanese styles. The
subtle, understated stones and stands of the Japanese Suiseki are a
complete contrast to the grandiose Chinese Scholar Stone stands, and one
should be aware of whether one is carving a Suiseki-style or Scholars
Stone-style stand i.e. an ornate Chinese style stand for a low distant
mountain stone would look wrong, and vice versa.

Joe

----------
From: Garry Garcia 
To: 'viewing_stones@triumf.ca'
Subject: FW: Daiza carving
Date: 12 July 1997 01:16

David,

Your last conclusion is correct in my opinion...as long as the stone is
sitting correctly, stable, balanced, and looks good there is no need to
bury it to the hilt in the daiza, you may hide the true beauty of the stone
in doing this.

There are many stones that do not touch the daiza in the middle, or edge,
and look beautiful. Many of the Ancient Chinese Scholars Rocks almost look
as if they are balanced in mid air with very little of the rock touching
the daiza....the Worlds Within Worlds Catalogue from Harvard has some fine
examples, it may be worth the investment to buy this book for reference, or
some of the others on the market.  I have a link to most of the available
books and their publisher on my site....BOOKS & LINKS Page.  But I think
one of the best things to do is follow your inner feelings, that's the way
it was done a couple thousand years ago, and I am sure they turned out very
nice.

I am sure many in the group follow this practice, and go on
intuition,,,keep in mind this is an art form of balance, beauty, and
harmony with nature, there are some hard fast rules, but it is mainly free
style, and you are the judge of what makes the union between stone and
wood...

Just my opinion, hope it helps a little.
thanks
  
Garry  

-----Original Message-----
From:	David/Danielle Waldo [SMTP:dwaldo@telepath.com]
Sent:	Friday, July 11, 1997 1:05 PM
To:	viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject:	Daiza carving

All,

Thank you very much for your insightfull replies to my question
about daiza color.  What I have gained is that many colors are
appropriate for daiza color as long as the daiza and color
complement the stone.  One of my main concerns was that the color
of a daiza could be too close to the color of the stone.  In Gail's
description of the Rosenblum collection she mentions a stone
that blends in with the daiza.  So it seems that daiza sometime
very closely match the color of the stone.

This brings me to another question I have about daiza.  I have
carved a few daiza for my stones and have not put the stones too
deep into the daiza.  I was wondering what people think about
the depth of the stone in the daiza?  I have a stone I am carving
a daiza for right now (well, not right this minute) and it does
not have a flat bottom.  The stone sits upright and touches at
about 3-4 locations but does not touch all around the edge and
in the middle of the stone.  Is it OK to have a stone that sits in the
daiza at a few locations and does not touch the daiza in the
middle?  If I make the above stone sit in the daiza deeper it
will look like it is very deep in the daiza at some of the edges
since the sides are not verticle.

Crude drawing to show the stone sitting in the daiza too deep:

             /
--------    /
 daiza  |  / stone
        | /
        |/_________

I am tempted to come to the conclusion that as long as the stone
is stable on the daiza and looks like it sits in the daiza in
locations there is no need to make it sit in the daiza deeper.
I am eager to hear what everyone thinks.

David Waldo



----------


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:05:59 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Chinese Stone Book
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:08:09 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Gang;

I wrote about a recent visit to a Asian stone store here in Vancouver; 

> > They had a book {in English} that I'd never heard anyone mention before
> > called something like; "Rare Stones of China", published by something
> > like
> > the "Shanghai Publishing Company". It looked like a thorough book from
a
> > quick flip through, does anyone know this book?

Joe Davies replied;

> Yes, its excellent, but mega-expensive here, hope its cheaper in your
neck
> of the woods.

I visited the store again on Saturday, and wrote the info down this time;

Title: China's Rare Stones
Publisher: Shanghai Chinese Classics Publishing House
ISBN 7-5325-1857-4
The cost was listed inside as 218 of what ever the Chinese currency is, and
the woman at the store told me that converts over to about $36 Canadian,
which then converts over to about $26 U.S. The store doesn't sell the book,
but I might be able order it, or find it in one of the China town book
stores here in Vancouver, I'll keep you informed, as I want one!

BTW, the prices of their stones seemed very reasonable to me......

I asked if they had a catalog, but apparently not.... 

I hope this helps!

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:06:18 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
Reply-To: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
To: "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: Re: Chinese Stone Book
Message-ID: <0010200000843780000002L002*@MHS>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:55:04 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
To let you all know, I sent e-mail today to China Books & Periodicals, =
Inc.,
for information regarding the book Craig's describing.  I will let you =
know
when I have anything on it.

Gail
gail.e.sheldon@ussev.mail.abb.com
=
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:11:37 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: "viewing_stones" 
Subject: Moon Viewing Stones?
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:13:45 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Gang;

Was just looking around NASAs site at their stones & rock pictures, and
found this one;

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS16/10075889.htm

The white shape kind of looks like a falcon head & body, ready to take
flight to me..... (head rotated about 45 deg. to the left) What do you
think?

Check out the age!!! Talk about antique stones!

---

How about this one;

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS16/10075885.htm

Near mountain stone?

---

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS17/10076008.htm

A seal?

---

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS16/10075888.htm

Near mountain with cave?

---

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS15/10075776.htm

Near mountain with glacier?

---

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS16/10075886.htm

Image stone; dancer profile with arms over head?

---

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/images/pao/AS16/10075841.htm

Joe Davies on his last collecting trip in Wales?

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
craig@triumf.ca      http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 06:16:01 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
Reply-To: gail.e.sheldon@USSEV.mail.abb.com
To: "        -         (052)viewing(u)stones(a)triumf.ca" 
Subject: China's Rare Stones
Message-ID: <0010200000878375000002L052*@MHS>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:04:47 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well I've hit two dead ends...China Books and Periodicals says no but s=
uggested
I try Oriental Bookstore.  They said no too and suggested I try my loca=
l
bookstore to order it.  Johnson's Bookstore, one of the largest in the =
area,
said no as well.  The book being out of print, they suggested that I pu=
t an ad
in at their second hand store which I will do.  (Guess that's three dea=
d
ends.)  I still have one to go and I'll do that next...Steve Sousa, any=
one
remember his posting something to the bonsai list a while ago?  He's a =
second
hand book dealer...I'm going to give him a call and will let you all kn=
ow.

So Craig, if you are afforded the chance, please order at least two!

Gail
gail.e.sheldon@ussev.mail.abb.com
=
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:11:46 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <9707298702.AA870207255@okway.okstate.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 15:10:46 -0600
From: "Tom LaBron" 
Reply-To: "Tom LaBron" 
To: , 
Subject: Poss Enjoyable/Poss Offensive Icon Representation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


     
     Caution:  The following post may be offensive to those who are anal 
     retentive or see no humor or find no humor in the human posterior anatomy.
     
     Well Folks,
     
     A colleague in my office forwarded these to me and I thoroughly enjoyed 
     them.  I hope no one is offended too much, but after today's events of 
     round-robins, these icons were extremely funny.
     
     Regards from Pawnee America.
     
     Tom La Bron
     LTA, Oklahoma State University
     Office:    norbal@okway.okstate.edu
     Home:      norbalt@juno.com
     
     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     __________________________ Forward Header _________________________________ 
     Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: fun w/ e-mails -Forwarded]]
     Author:  Patsy Stafford at Library
     Date:    7/29/97 2:15 PM
     
     
     We all know those cute little computer symbols called "emoticons," where  
     :) means a smile and :( is a frown.  Sometimes these are represented by :-) 
     and :-( respectively.  Well, how about some "ass icons"?
     
     Here goes:
     
     (_!_)      a regular ass
     
     (__!__)    a fat ass
     
     (!)        a tight ass
     
     (_._)      a flat ass
     
     (_^_)      a bubble ass
     
     (_*_)      a sore ass
     
     (_!__)     a lop-sided ass
     
     {_!_}       a swishy ass
     
     (_x_)     kiss my ass
     
     (_zzz_)    a tired ass
     
     (_o^o_)   a wise ass
     
     (_13_)     an unlucky ass
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Source: geocities.com/tokyo/garden/1666

               ( geocities.com/tokyo/garden)                   ( geocities.com/tokyo)