Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:36:15 PST
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Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:37:12 +0100
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To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: RE; SO QUIET

At 20.03 24/11/97 -0800,Lynn Boyd you wrote:
****************************************************************************
**** 
>   Anton, you wrote:
>  
>So quiet,
>
>I was enjoying the discourse on sublimity and beauty. I would like to say
>it has helped me along in my creative attempts.
> . . .snip. . .
>The point is I really think I understand what was said and the discussions
>have given me many inspirations or better worded 'understandings' of what
>it is that attracts me to a particular rock. By putting together the past
>discussions and some of the correspondence that I have gotten from Lynn I
>have come upon a profound discovery. Simple but profound to me.
> . . . snip . . .
> With sublimity, beauty and metaphor in my mind I suddenly undertand what
>art is all about.
>So simple, something I knew, but never realized until Chris, Lynn and Marco
>started discussing sublimity and beauty.
>  So I would like to thank all for the inspirations and please don't stop now!
>-----------------
>Anton Nijhuis
>Vancouver Island
>-----------------
>    Anton:
>
>    I think the fear is that you may be a minority. :)
>    Nothing stops Chris, Marco and Lynn.  And we take our turns
>    at moderating one another.  We also shift and moderate
>    our thought structures sometimes and that takes time,
>    because starting with basic assumptions and building that
>    persuasion or argument does not come about quickly.
>
>    Right now Chris is visiting Marco in Italy -stone hunting-for
>    one thing, and I cannot doubt doing some wrangling on our subject
>    matter. I hope so for the fun of it and understanding gained. 
>    I imagine that when Chris returns we will hear of his visit
>    in this forum.  His expected return is next week.
>
>    Following that I would like to see some discussion of the
>    art of displaying rocks.  We all want to display our rocks.
>        
>    And I am hoping that Randall will tell us further of his
>    recent exhibit in his gallery and his display - what he
>    may or may not do differently another time.
>
>    Craig Coussins first mentioned this to me and at the time I
>    thought it would be interesting to follow up.  I have had too
>    much to pursue elsewhere to urge it into discussion.  Also,
>    I know Chris is well-acquainted with kei do,-the art of display-
>    and would like to see his return and what he would offer on
>    the subject as anything I know of it is through his references.
>       Lynn
********************************************************************************

Anton and Lynn,

Chris is now in his town,i'm on-line from this evening,and we can as soon as
possible to satisfy your curiosity,if you want,about beauty and sublime;our
speech isn't finished,i think we have many things to say,but i leave that Chris 
notice you about his trip here before to begin again it.
for now i wait Chris or Lynn input,i can only say you that all is gone very
well,i enjoyed to meet Chris and show him my country,we spent wonderful days
togheter and Chris come back in U.S. with a great charge(44kg)of nice
Ligurian stones(96.8 lb).
arm yourself with a bit of patience,Chris must recover all his lost sleep:-).
my best greetings.

marco

favero@inrete.it  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:42:46 PST
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From: "Garry Garcia" 
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia" 
To: 
Subject: Re: RE; unsubscribe
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:43:34 -0600
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Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:52:44 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:52:24 +0100
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To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: DAI MAKING was Declamations on Beauty & Sublimity

At 20.33 24/11/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Anton Nijhuis wrote:
>> snip>
>> 
>> p.s. I could use some help in starting my dai I have trouble getting
> the outline on the wood. I tried Joe's idea with the plasticine but
>  still can not get it right.
>
>Denny Nolan wrote:
>
>   . . .long snip of good information . . . (see below)
>                                      
>  If this information would be helpful to the masses.  I would consider
>putting a little write-up on my suiseki page.
>
>------------------
>     Denny:
>        Please do.  Though several pages have similar information,
>     each is slightly different and it helps to have these choices
>     of procedure.  I could understand that Anton may like to try
>     more than one approach.  I probably will, then between them
>     find a combination that suits me - provided I have any fingers
>     left.
>  
>        Lynn
>                 boyd@peak.org      Corvallis, OR

********************************************************************************
Lynn and Anton,

i search to help you saying how we made our dai:
take a wood,put your stone in the middle of it and keeping firm the stone
follow its outlines with a good fine copying pencil:this is the first line.
now you map out another line parallel to the first far off two centimeters
about(almost an inch) which will be the second line.
you must carve all wood inside the first line whithout to touche it so that
the stone is well embedded and steady in wood.
the second line serves for to create all bends beyond it, following your tastes
and your perspectives bearing in mind the form,the meaning and the shape of
stone.
for feet,it is necessary to follow the bends of the stone,and they will be
always odd.

hope this helps.

marco

favero@inrete.it

ps:Chris and Felix Rivera have a videotape by Luciana Queirolo Garbini which
explains very well this method.if someone is interested,please contact them.  
  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:53:04 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <199712040152.UAA06972@ns.trigger.net>
From: "shibui" 
Reply-To: "shibui" 
To: 
Subject: making a stand
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:52:39 -0500
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Hello to All

Some people in the group have raised questions pertaining to carving the
base for a stone. This is to let you know I have written an article on that
topic. It's aimed at the flat bottomed type. It will appear in the
magazine, "International Bonsai",  published by  Bill Valavanis of New
York. The  issue is due out  2nd - 3rd week of Dec.

Hope this and it will help

Arthur Skolnik
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 05:02:40 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: Gary Bolstridge 
Reply-To: Gary Bolstridge 
Subject: Chrysanthemum Stones
To: viewing_stones@Triumf.CA
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 97 8:01:52 EST
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I ran across a URL containing pictures of Chrysanthemum Stones from Hunan.
It is posted by a company offering the stones for sale. Some seem to have
just the base cut flat, but others have been ornately carved. To me, they
are VERY unatractive and I am sure some people on the list will go off 
extreme rants. I see the altered stones as an affront to nature - but I guess
beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Anyway, anyone interested may view the 
stones at:

  
http://205.187.251.3/goldenstone/hunanstone.htm

Gary Bolstridge
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:56:38 PST
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:57:06 +0100
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To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Aesthetic:a general survey (was Re: Declamations on beauty and sublimity

At 09.09 24/11/97 -0700,Anton Nijhuis you wrote:
********************************************************************************
>So quiet,
------------------------great snip----------------------------------------------
>With sublimity, beauty and metaphor in my mind I suddenly undertand what
>art is all about. It is about communication, the real purpose of art is for
>us to communicate to each other. 
>So simple, something I knew but never realized until Chris, Lynn and Marco
>started discussing sublimity and beauty.
>
>So I would like to thank all for the inspirations and please don't stop now! 
********************************************************************************
Anton,

we must apologize with all the people because we started only  small chapters
about Aesthetics,and waiting the Chris' "resurrection" let me give you some
general survey about it:

Greeks knew not the word Aesthetics as substantive,they from "aisthesis"
which means "sensation" had coined the term "aesthetike'"
aesthetic,sensible,which
Plato set against "noeta" i.e. specific objects' property of thought.
Aesthetics is born with Gotlieb Alexander Baumgarten in 1735 in his book
"Philosophical Meditations about some Poem's aspects", and in 1750 in another
book called "Aesthetic" he wrote:
"Aesthetics(or theory of liberal arts,inferior gnosiology,art of beauty
thought, art of analogous of reason)is the science of sensible cognition."
he thought that the perfection of sensible cognition is beauty which becomes
the main object of Aesthetics resuming ancient with modern meditations.

Schematizing we can say that Aesthetics is science of Sensitiveness,the study of
beauty in all its various forms,the point of connection of sensual characters
of poetics and rethoric,the doctrine in which compare themselves those man's
powers which,as imagination,build extra-logical representations.

the thought of Baumgarten had many transformations from then,i want not quote
here all philosophical currents from Antiquity to Renaissance,from Baroque to
Eighteenth Century,Idealism and Romanticism,Positivism,Evolutionism and 
psicological Aesthetics etc...,but let me say at least the names of Aesthetics:
they are:

Beauty,art and technique,form,symbol,taste,genius,imagination,mimesis,
aesthetical categories,ugly,sublime,tragic,poetics,rethoric,ancient and modern
querelle.

now all the people can understand as beauty and sublime are only a part of
Aesthetics,and it is difficult to extrapolate some chapter for to realize 
the complexity of philosophical speech about it and its relationship with
stones.

hope this helps.
regards.

marco

favero@inrete.it
 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:07:06 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane" 
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane" 
To: "marco favero" , 
Subject: Amicos, Presaggio e Pietra: Friends, Landscape & Stones in Italy
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:02:28 -0500
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Marco writes re' Anton's request for further the thread on beauty and
sublimity,
> ... I think we have many things to say,but I leave that Chris
> notice you about his trip here before to begin again it.

Please excuse my tardiness in responding sooner.  I've had a bout with my
health of which Marco is aware and which I'm hopefully now putting behind
me.

Thanks for your interest, Anton.  Marco is right to think that I can think
of nothing until sharing some thoughts on my trip to the Ligurian alps.

The most important thing that I can share with the mail list is the
incredible generosity and warmth of viewing stone collectors to whom Marco
introduced this traveler-- and of the incredible thoughtfulness of Marco and
his wife Simone.  Susan & I started our tourist agenda (2 weeks of enjoying
Italy's incredible beauty) before I had the opportunity to visit Marco & his
friends, with one stopover at beautiful Cernobbio on Lake Como.  Upon
arriving at the hotel, we found the loveliest stem of almost 2 dozen
full-sized orchids that I have ever seen.   Each bloom was a velvety
pistachio-green with mottled rose-colored throats.

Their beauty was shuddering, even in that exceptional room of the Hotel
Asnigo overlooking the lake.  The flowers had come from Marco, and the staff
of the hotel treated us more as if we were owners than visitors-- perhaps
thinking we were so grand as to deserve such a gift.  It was Susan's
birthday, and Marco made it so very special.  I thought of Sen no Rikyu's
gift of a single morning glory blossom (from his tea ceremony path-garden,
which was celebrated for many blooms) cut prior to destroying all other
blooms in the garden for his patron Hideyoshi.  The florist in Como must
have passed over innumerable blossoms to choose this one exquisite stem.

Upon arriving at the Viareggio train station at the southern end of the
Ligurian area, Marco had emailed that I would be met by Chiara Padrini &
Luciana Garbini.  Just to meet "Chiara"  & " Luciana" was anticipated by me
as wondrous as I'd heard great tales of each as viewing stone
enthusiasts...  but not in my wildest dreams had I expected the good fortune
of accompanying them for several days!  I arrived on Tuesday and would be
under their wings until Marco would meet us in Lumarzo on Thursday
afternoon.

Chiara speaks English and translates well; Luciana never attempts English;
neither was overawed with my six-word vocabulary of Italian... :-).  Both,
however, clearly express great joy in sharing their knowledge of the
Ligurian mountains.  Luciana's daughter and son-in-law own/operate a
mountain inn high in the Ligurian mountain range and it was my great good
fortune to spend two nights and eat evening meals there.  Luciana's
granddaughter has a big dog that wanders freely at the inn and the dog
understands a stranger's well-intentioned pat very well.

Among foods encountered during this brief stay, I was offered and tried wild
venison (translated as best the waiter could as "Bambi grande"), an
outstanding stew of unknown source and octopus tentacles.  Each meal was
large enough for three people, yet the Italians seemed to barely be testing
their appetites as I wallowed continually from eating beyond my capacity.

I'll comment on stone collecting and cleaning with Chiara and Luciana in a
separate post.   Another post would also be best to describe the collection
of stones that Chiara and Luciana are assembling and displaying at their
recently purchased farm in Sarzana.

On Thursday Chiara & Luciana accompanied me to Lumarzo, the hometown of
Andrea and Mirella Schenone.  Andrea and his viewingstones are prominently
displayed in Willi Benz text on suiseki, but meeting the collector and
seeing his collection personally is quite distinctive.  Andrea also speaks
little English, but invited me into his home, hours before Marco would
arrive, as if we were the very warmest of friends.

Andrea lives on a hillside with a beautiful view, and from his drive, the
visitor walks up several terraces to his house.   Lower terraces he has
lined with large viewingstones that he has yet to formally display.  At one
terrace level is Andrea's shop where he showed me the tools he uses to clean
stones and carve dai.  There also are cabinets-full of evocative small
stones-- most "palumbino" (the dark- gray, very hard, dense limestone named
for the color of a pigeon) though several are also of a lustrous light green
that appears slightly translucent, like Chinese jades.  Finally, we rise to
the level of Andrea's main house, which is also surrounded by carefully
collected suiseki mostly of larger size than the classic one-hand stone.
Just inside the house is a small case of tiny jewel-like landscapes... small
suiseki with exquisite dai that Andrea has selected and crafted.

In the next room is the most unbelievably broad collection of object stones
that I will likely ever see.   It is daunting...  each stone has so true a
character... on two long shelves are the epitome of a life dedicated to
_keisho-seki_ (object stones).  I must have taken photographs of at least
forty of these stones, alone.  They are inspirational individually, and as a
collection are representative of Andrea's thoughtful eye.

Among the most evocative for me were stones with religious themes-- one
stooping penitent whose separate body parts appear individually to express
submission, a cowled figure bowing and an upright Madonna.  After seeing a
plethora of "Madonna & Bambino" paintings at the Uffuzi Gallery, I did not
expect to be moved so by the natural contours of a collected piece of
stone... but Andrea's "Madonna" suiseki speaks so clearly of gentleness and
especially of grace.

One of the most masterfully presented suiseki is of an elephant herd
rambling down a path.  It is composed of several stones assembled on a
single dai.  The largest stone clearly profiles an elephant's head on its
left side, but the front-right side has several bulges pointing directly to
the viewer-- certainly not indicative of a single elephant's rear end.  When
Andrea adds other stone "elephants" collected from different areas at
different times, however, these problematic bulges are suddenly resolved as
the clear rear ends of other elephants facing away from the viewer.
Incredibly inventive and effective!

Andrea's lovely daughter Ilaria joined us for one meal before Marco arrived.
She is a student of architecture in nearby Genoa and was kind enough to
compliment my pathetic French as we used what language capacities we had to
try to communicate.  Later, I would meet Andrea's son Corrado who has
interest in computers and the internet.  Andrea's children, along with his
lovely wife, each express a clear intelligence and joy for life that I find
rarely expressed in families before strangers.  I was very privileged to
share their joy.

I was especially privileged to spend a long afternoon with Andrea, Mirella
and Marco at one of Andrea's favorite mountain lake collecting sites.
Collecting at a mountain lake requires a different set of skills than
collecting on a mountainside... and perhaps my comments will help the next
wanderer... :-)   Andrea obviously saw my difficulty in choosing stones with
skill, and gave me a stone from his collection for which he had crafted a
beautiful dai.   I was just the visiting friend of a friend, yet Andrea
shared such a special gift.  Marco had written me, "If you are my friend,
you will be treated as a brother by my friends."  I think Marco did not
exaggerate.  I certainly felt as though a part of this Ligurian family
during my visit.  We all smiled a great deal, even when we couldn't share
words.

After leaving Andrea's, Marco and Simone drove me through the Piedmont
countryside of Northern Italy back to their hometown of Turin.  It is a
great city of industry (especially of Italian auto manufacturing) and of
great beauty.  It sits between mountain of great height and beauty including
the peak that is represented in the MGM  (Metro Goldwyn Meyer) logo.  In
Turin, we toured historic sites, visited bonsai collections and individual
bonsai artists that far exceeded my expectations.  Marco introduced me to a
grand museum of Egyptology.  We ate bulls balls (and 65 of the other 68
delicacies) offered as antipasti at a special hillside restaurant that was
bursting at the seams with Piedmontese intent on swallowing their world...
:-)

Marco was a host beyond equal... and his friends in the worlds of suiseki
and bonsai are also beyond equal in sharing their friendship and generosity.

Thank you so much, Marco.

Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:16:44 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane" 
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane" 
To: "marco favero" , 
Subject: Collecting in Liguria
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:13:31 -0500
Message-ID: <01bd04ce$27be5100$363eaccf@sashai.erols.com>
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After several days of visiting and two days of collecting stones in the
Ligurian Alps, I've more questions than answers.  Fortunately, Chiara
Padrini, Luciana Garbini and Andrea and Mirella Schenone anticipated the
most difficult job-- where to find suiseki among these beautiful mountain=
s.

On the first day of collecting, Chiara and Luciana drove me high into the
mountains not far from their farmhouse in Sarzana.  The road climbed swif=
tly
in sharp switchbacks, then roamed leisurely along gentle ridges.
Occasionally the very narrow roadway zigzagged among ancient stone farm
buildings, even winding between a main house and outbuildings that obviou=
sly
predated the road's construction.

At one of the mountain farms, Chiara stopped the car to show me ancient
chestnut (?) trees, no longer harvested for their fruit, that had been
planted in a grove so long ago that they now resemble the ancient oaks on=
e
now finds on the English grounds of Kensington Palace.  Here, however, th=
e
trees are not preserved in a celebrated setting but rather stand alone on=
 a
desolate mountainside... unattended, displaying signs of age, struggle an=
d
forbearance.

Chiara pointed to a distant peaks that have suffered avalanches and noted
this as typical of the Ligurian Alps, which rose precipitously when the
Teutonic plate of the African continent collided with the European plate.
She got well past my understanding of geological formations in describing
layers of rock forming this chain and seemed to have an intent discussion
with Luciana on just this matter.  Luciana does a great job of describing
the cataclysms and aeons of rock formation in the Ligurian Alps in her vi=
deo
"La Pietra Dura (The Stone Alive)," for which Marco has provided me an
English translation.

From Chiara, I noted that "jasper"-- a shale-like rock of red or occasion=
al
green color is often found peeling off mountainsides in layers.  This jas=
per
is friable (easily crumbles to bits) and sheets of it twist within the
mountainside so that if you see cuts in the mountain from opposing sides,
the direction of the plates of jasper may change dramatically.

Where you find the parallel end-grain of jasper appears to be where small
deposits of "palombini" stone are found.  Palombini ("the color of pigeon=
")
is the very hard, dark, dense limestone for which the Ligurian Alps has
gained its reputation among suiseki collectors.  It rests in clumps of li=
ght
tan-colored clay, often parallel and just below the earth's surface.

Most clumps of mountainside palombini that I saw pried from the ground
appeared to have a mostly flat top and bottom, with one flat side=97 whic=
h
would carry peaks of the suiseki=97 narrower than the other.   The relati=
vely
flat bottoms of Ligurian suiseki is one of their great attributes which
makes them easy to fit in a dai.  These clumps of clay were found suspend=
ed
in mostly crumbling jasper. Whereas I could not distinguish any pinnacles=
 in
the rock underneath this clay, Chiara and Luciana each deftly tapped the
clay with steel pry bars to expose ridges among palombini arising on the
narrower of the two flat sides of the clay mass.

The best spots for collecting were cuts in the mountain created by road
crews, avalanche or especially by naturally formed gullies.  Chiara
explained that where water flowed frequently, a hard mountain stone would=
 be
more likely to have softer, more natural contours.

I am really not sure of this, but I think the narrower (peak) side of the
suiseki we collected on the mountainside pointed upward.  If I was a bett=
er
correspondent, I would have asked rather than trust my memory, which was
uneducated as to the scene unraveling.  Any Ligurian collector will surel=
y
know and hopefully amend what I report as experienced but not fully
understood... :-)

Interestingly, I saw a very different aspect of palombini stone formation
when later collecting stones from a Ligurian mountain lake.  With Andrea
Schenone leading his wife Mirella, Marco Favero and I, we visited a mount=
ain
lake with waters receding enough to expose a shoreline covered with coars=
e
bits of jasper, boulders of exposed palombini and numerous clay-covered
rocks of multitudinous shape with the possibility of interesting suiseki
lying within.

The clay covering palombini in both mountain and mountain lake settings
sometimes appears as modeled a clump as if sculpted by hand and occasiona=
lly
takes on a form so natural that it appears a very light coating atop the
palombini underneath.  More typically, the clay covers the stone in a rif=
t
form, with many straight-sided fissures and clefts that extend from the
clay's surface to the stone's face.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea and Mirella
read these clefts like an artist evaluates brushstrokes-- for me, they we=
re
clouds of oblivion... :-(.

Each of the Italian suiseki enthusiasts that I visited clean their stones
first with a steel brush with radiating bristles attached to electric
motors.  Since more than one brush size is preferable to clean within
different spaces, each had several brushes readily at hand=97 sometimes
running off opposite ends of the same spindle.  None demonstrated their a=
cid
bath washings to me, but I think Marco, Craig Hunt and others have done a=
n
admirable job explaining this cleaning techniques to mail list readers.

At the lakefront collecting site (as in some water-washed gullies on the
mountainside site), the clay encasing palombini was substantially washed
away.  This was especially true for large shoreline boulders firmly affix=
ed
to deeper rock.  On these rocks, water in many cases had undercut the cla=
y
from the palombini and it was clear to see gorgeous pinnacles suspended f=
rom
relatively flat palombini bases which were eroding much slower than their
surrounding clay.

The renown Crespi Bonsai Museum within driving range from Turin has a hug=
e
garden stone displayed in a dai that must cover 7 to 8 square feet of are=
a.
When Marco introduced me to the Museum, he informed me that the Crespi ha=
d
purchased this stone for a sizable sum.  I think if he were to collect
garden stones, Andrea at his mountain lake site would have have his choic=
e
of numerous stones at least as evocative as Crespi's prized museum entran=
ce
stone.  Even this poor collector found one such stone with which I was
entranced.  I could easily lift it, but it would have been difficult to
carry it uphill to our vehicle.  After carrying many small stones that ha=
d
been lovingly collected and twice filled a large backpack, I had already =
met
my limit of endurance when I found this stone, but I'll never forget the
finding!

Despite my intense joy while collecting stones at the lake, most I chose
were dismissed for obvious faults when they were cleaned.  As Andrea saw =
the
faults in my selection, so did I... and my heart sank.  Then, Andrea
thoughtfully gave me a stone that he collected that day.  Later, Mirella =
and
Andrea had a short conversation, and Mirella handed me a beautiful landsc=
ape
stone for which Andrea had crafted a gorgeous dai.  She insisted that I
accept it as a gift.  Before I left Italy, Marco also insisted I accept t=
he
gift of a beautiful stone he collected that day.

When the grace of such good companions is shared, how could life be bette=
r.
Andrea is one of the foremost collectors of viewing stones on Earth, and =
he
thinks so much of others that he shares his prizes for the joy of sharing=
--
like Picasso saying "Here is a canvas for you to take home as a remembran=
ce
of our day together."
Marco also shared his very best with me.  The best of his homeland and th=
e
best of friends.

As my plane was about to leave Turin, Marco also gave me a wrapped packag=
e--
it was a beautiful tabletop book on Italy as seen from the sky.  In the b=
ook
are many areas south of Liguria which appear to have similar formations o=
f
rock.  Chiara had said that other areas in Italy are excellent for suisek=
i
collecting.  This is really an exciting prospect!  Do formations similar =
to
Liguria's exist elsewhere in the world.  Japanese Furyu-ishi suiseki
strongly resemble Ligurian Alps suiseki.

Sharing days in collecting stones with friends is certainly a great rewar=
d
in life.  What is so special, perhaps, is that those who share our hobby-=
-
whether in Liguria, the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere-- seem also to sha=
re
a deep love of life and of fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks, again, Marco.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea & Mirella have now become =
my
friends... and what greater gift could anyone share.

Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:48:44 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia" 
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Collecting in Liguria
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:49:26 -0600
Message-ID: <01bd04a0$e1d43060$505f47cc@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris, happy to hear you had a great time, and enjoyed collecting with yo=
ur
new friends, sounds wonderful.  A very descriptive narrative too.  Thanks
for sharing your adventure, welcome back to America.
Can we see a pic of your new stones? When you have time of course.

Garry
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Cochrane 
To: marco favero ; viewing_stones@triumf.ca

Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 12:39 PM
Subject: Collecting in Liguria


After several days of visiting and two days of collecting stones in the
Ligurian Alps, I've more questions than answers.  Fortunately, Chiara
Padrini, Luciana Garbini and Andrea and Mirella Schenone anticipated the
most difficult job-- where to find suiseki among these beautiful mountain=
s.

On the first day of collecting, Chiara and Luciana drove me high into the
mountains not far from their farmhouse in Sarzana.  The road climbed swif=
tly
in sharp switchbacks, then roamed leisurely along gentle ridges.
Occasionally the very narrow roadway zigzagged among ancient stone farm
buildings, even winding between a main house and outbuildings that obviou=
sly
predated the road's construction.

At one of the mountain farms, Chiara stopped the car to show me ancient
chestnut (?) trees, no longer harvested for their fruit, that had been
planted in a grove so long ago that they now resemble the ancient oaks on=
e
now finds on the English grounds of Kensington Palace.  Here, however, th=
e
trees are not preserved in a celebrated setting but rather stand alone on=
 a
desolate mountainside... unattended, displaying signs of age, struggle an=
d
forbearance.

Chiara pointed to a distant peaks that have suffered avalanches and noted
this as typical of the Ligurian Alps, which rose precipitously when the
Teutonic plate of the African continent collided with the European plate.
She got well past my understanding of geological formations in describing
layers of rock forming this chain and seemed to have an intent discussion
with Luciana on just this matter.  Luciana does a great job of describing
the cataclysms and aeons of rock formation in the Ligurian Alps in her vi=
deo
"La Pietra Dura (The Stone Alive)," for which Marco has provided me an
English translation.

>From Chiara, I noted that "jasper"-- a shale-like rock of red or occasio=
nal
green color is often found peeling off mountainsides in layers.  This jas=
per
is friable (easily crumbles to bits) and sheets of it twist within the
mountainside so that if you see cuts in the mountain from opposing sides,
the direction of the plates of jasper may change dramatically.

Where you find the parallel end-grain of jasper appears to be where small
deposits of "palombini" stone are found.  Palombini ("the color of pigeon=
")
is the very hard, dark, dense limestone for which the Ligurian Alps has
gained its reputation among suiseki collectors.  It rests in clumps of li=
ght
tan-colored clay, often parallel and just below the earth's surface.

Most clumps of mountainside palombini that I saw pried from the ground
appeared to have a mostly flat top and bottom, with one flat side=97 whic=
h
would carry peaks of the suiseki=97 narrower than the other.   The relati=
vely
flat bottoms of Ligurian suiseki is one of their great attributes which
makes them easy to fit in a dai.  These clumps of clay were found suspend=
ed
in mostly crumbling jasper. Whereas I could not distinguish any pinnacles=
 in
the rock underneath this clay, Chiara and Luciana each deftly tapped the
clay with steel pry bars to expose ridges among palombini arising on the
narrower of the two flat sides of the clay mass.

The best spots for collecting were cuts in the mountain created by road
crews, avalanche or especially by naturally formed gullies.  Chiara
explained that where water flowed frequently, a hard mountain stone would=
 be
more likely to have softer, more natural contours.

I am really not sure of this, but I think the narrower (peak) side of the
suiseki we collected on the mountainside pointed upward.  If I was a bett=
er
correspondent, I would have asked rather than trust my memory, which was
uneducated as to the scene unraveling.  Any Ligurian collector will surel=
y
know and hopefully amend what I report as experienced but not fully
understood... :-)

Interestingly, I saw a very different aspect of palombini stone formation
when later collecting stones from a Ligurian mountain lake.  With Andrea
Schenone leading his wife Mirella, Marco Favero and I, we visited a mount=
ain
lake with waters receding enough to expose a shoreline covered with coars=
e
bits of jasper, boulders of exposed palombini and numerous clay-covered
rocks of multitudinous shape with the possibility of interesting suiseki
lying within.

The clay covering palombini in both mountain and mountain lake settings
sometimes appears as modeled a clump as if sculpted by hand and occasiona=
lly
takes on a form so natural that it appears a very light coating atop the
palombini underneath.  More typically, the clay covers the stone in a rif=
t
form, with many straight-sided fissures and clefts that extend from the
clay's surface to the stone's face.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea and Mirella
read these clefts like an artist evaluates brushstrokes-- for me, they we=
re
clouds of oblivion... :-(.

Each of the Italian suiseki enthusiasts that I visited clean their stones
first with a steel brush with radiating bristles attached to electric
motors.  Since more than one brush size is preferable to clean within
different spaces, each had several brushes readily at hand=97 sometimes
running off opposite ends of the same spindle.  None demonstrated their a=
cid
bath washings to me, but I think Marco, Craig Hunt and others have done a=
n
admirable job explaining this cleaning techniques to mail list readers.

At the lakefront collecting site (as in some water-washed gullies on the
mountainside site), the clay encasing palombini was substantially washed
away.  This was especially true for large shoreline boulders firmly affix=
ed
to deeper rock.  On these rocks, water in many cases had undercut the cla=
y
from the palombini and it was clear to see gorgeous pinnacles suspended f=
rom
relatively flat palombini bases which were eroding much slower than their
surrounding clay.

The renown Crespi Bonsai Museum within driving range from Turin has a hug=
e
garden stone displayed in a dai that must cover 7 to 8 square feet of are=
a.
When Marco introduced me to the Museum, he informed me that the Crespi ha=
d
purchased this stone for a sizable sum.  I think if he were to collect
garden stones, Andrea at his mountain lake site would have have his choic=
e
of numerous stones at least as evocative as Crespi's prized museum entran=
ce
stone.  Even this poor collector found one such stone with which I was
entranced.  I could easily lift it, but it would have been difficult to
carry it uphill to our vehicle.  After carrying many small stones that ha=
d
been lovingly collected and twice filled a large backpack, I had already =
met
my limit of endurance when I found this stone, but I'll never forget the
finding!

Despite my intense joy while collecting stones at the lake, most I chose
were dismissed for obvious faults when they were cleaned.  As Andrea saw =
the
faults in my selection, so did I... and my heart sank.  Then, Andrea
thoughtfully gave me a stone that he collected that day.  Later, Mirella =
and
Andrea had a short conversation, and Mirella handed me a beautiful landsc=
ape
stone for which Andrea had crafted a gorgeous dai.  She insisted that I
accept it as a gift.  Before I left Italy, Marco also insisted I accept t=
he
gift of a beautiful stone he collected that day.

When the grace of such good companions is shared, how could life be bette=
r.
Andrea is one of the foremost collectors of viewing stones on Earth, and =
he
thinks so much of others that he shares his prizes for the joy of sharing=
--
like Picasso saying "Here is a canvas for you to take home as a remembran=
ce
of our day together."
Marco also shared his very best with me.  The best of his homeland and th=
e
best of friends.

As my plane was about to leave Turin, Marco also gave me a wrapped packag=
e--
it was a beautiful tabletop book on Italy as seen from the sky.  In the b=
ook
are many areas south of Liguria which appear to have similar formations o=
f
rock.  Chiara had said that other areas in Italy are excellent for suisek=
i
collecting.  This is really an exciting prospect!  Do formations similar =
to
Liguria's exist elsewhere in the world.  Japanese Furyu-ishi suiseki
strongly resemble Ligurian Alps suiseki.

Sharing days in collecting stones with friends is certainly a great rewar=
d
in life.  What is so special, perhaps, is that those who share our hobby-=
-
whether in Liguria, the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere-- seem also to sha=
re
a deep love of life and of fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks, again, Marco.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea & Mirella have now become =
my
friends... and what greater gift could anyone share.

Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:02:33 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:03:14 +0100
Message-ID: <199712102203.XAA25714@inrete.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: Collecting in Liguria

Hi Chris,
i for one must thank you for your kind and grateful post about Ligurian=
 Alps,
all friends,who you left here,remember your great curiosity and affection
and have been very glad to share with you this part of our world,the thanks=
 are
mutuals.

At 13.13 09/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>After several days of visiting and two days of collecting stones in the
>Ligurian Alps, I've more questions than answers.  Fortunately, Chiara
>Padrini, Luciana Garbini and Andrea and Mirella Schenone anticipated the
>most difficult job-- where to find suiseki among these beautiful mountains.

in each research,there are always questions,we are here for to answer to
your questions,if we can:-).

>On the first day of collecting, Chiara and Luciana drove me high into the
>mountains not far from their farmhouse in Sarzana.  The road climbed=
 swiftly
>in sharp switchbacks, then roamed leisurely along gentle ridges.
>Occasionally the very narrow roadway zigzagged among ancient stone farm
>buildings, even winding between a main house and outbuildings that=
 obviously
>predated the road's construction.

Our country is plenty of mountains and rugged valleys,plain is far from here
our orography shows hills and mountains and only in Po River basin we have
the long plain which you know in your country,remember we are in vulcan=
 area.

>The best spots for collecting were cuts in the mountain created by road
>crews, avalanche or especially by naturally formed gullies.  Chiara
>explained that where water flowed frequently, a hard mountain stone would=
 be
>more likely to have softer, more natural contours.
>
>I am really not sure of this, but I think the narrower (peak) side of the
>suiseki we collected on the mountainside pointed upward.  If I was a better
>correspondent, I would have asked rather than trust my memory, which was
>uneducated as to the scene unraveling.  Any Ligurian collector will surely
>know and hopefully amend what I report as experienced but not fully
>understood... :-)

you have understood very well,suiseki are pointed upward by joke of water=
 and
clay,more water flowed,more suiseki will be softer and have natural=
 contours.

>Interestingly, I saw a very different aspect of palombini stone formation
>when later collecting stones from a Ligurian mountain lake.  With Andrea
>Schenone leading his wife Mirella, Marco Favero and I, we visited a=
 mountain
>lake with waters receding enough to expose a shoreline covered with coarse
>bits of jasper, boulders of exposed palombini and numerous clay-covered
>rocks of multitudinous shape with the possibility of interesting suiseki
>lying within.

we was in Giacopiane lake(D'Aveto valley),maybe Craig Coussins will remember
that spot;but i must say that now that lake has only great stones and too=
 much
people has collected stones there,we must change place for to collect them
because i for one prefer small stones which are prettier and less heavy.
we taken pictures of that lake,as soon as possible i will show them in my=
 new
web suiseki page with some Andrea,Luciana and Chiara's stones,i think start
at the end of this month,i will notice you across this list.=20

>The clay covering palombini in both mountain and mountain lake settings
>sometimes appears as modeled a clump as if sculpted by hand and=
 occasionally
>takes on a form so natural that it appears a very light coating atop the
>palombini underneath.  More typically, the clay covers the stone in a rift
>form, with many straight-sided fissures and clefts that extend from the
>clay's surface to the stone's face.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea and Mirella
>read these clefts like an artist evaluates brushstrokes-- for me, they were
>clouds of oblivion... :-(.

the search of stones is as a search of mushrooms,you must have the eyes and
the flair,it is a training,from little by little each person can gain the=
 right
behaviour.

>Each of the Italian suiseki enthusiasts that I visited clean their stones
>first with a steel brush with radiating bristles attached to electric
>motors.  Since more than one brush size is preferable to clean within
>different spaces, each had several brushes readily at hand=97 sometimes
>running off opposite ends of the same spindle.  None demonstrated their=
 acid
>bath washings to me, but I think Marco, Craig Hunt and others have done an
>admirable job explaining this cleaning techniques to mail list readers.

the reason is simple,all collectors you quote have a great and suited space
for to clean stones;when you live like me in a great town,you must find=
 another
way fot to clean your stones faster and above all with less dusty,my wife=
 hate
dusty,then i prefer to take away the most part of clay with acid. =20



>When the grace of such good companions is shared, how could life be better.
>Andrea is one of the foremost collectors of viewing stones on Earth, and he
>thinks so much of others that he shares his prizes for the joy of sharing--
>like Picasso saying "Here is a canvas for you to take home as a remembrance
>of our day together."
>Marco also shared his very best with me.  The best of his homeland and the
>best of friends.

i have no words for to thank you of this kind thought,you are right,those
persents were for to remember for all your life the good moments spent=
 togheter,
each time you will look that stone,you will remember our meeting:can there=
 be
something more unforgettable than that?


>As my plane was about to leave Turin, Marco also gave me a wrapped=
 package--
>it was a beautiful tabletop book on Italy as seen from the sky.  In the=
 book
>are many areas south of Liguria which appear to have similar formations of
>rock.  Chiara had said that other areas in Italy are excellent for suiseki
>collecting.  This is really an exciting prospect!  Do formations similar to
>Liguria's exist elsewhere in the world.  Japanese Furyu-ishi suiseki
>strongly resemble Ligurian Alps suiseki.

all Appennines alps go from south piedmont to extreme limit of italian boot,
it is enough search for to find other spots where you can collect stones=
 with
different characteristics;Andrea's stones are a bit clearer than Luciana's
stones,this is due to different clay or limestone,i don't know exactley why.
>
>Sharing days in collecting stones with friends is certainly a great reward
>in life.  What is so special, perhaps, is that those who share our hobby--
>whether in Liguria, the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere-- seem also to share
>a deep love of life and of fellow enthusiasts.
>
>Thanks, again, Marco.  Chiara, Luciana, Andrea & Mirella have now become my
>friends... and what greater gift could anyone share.

no thanks,it was a great pleasure for us to meet and know you,thanks you so
much for to share with us your knowlegde and your deep friendship;we will
remember all our life your joy of life and your pleasant company.

my best wishes

marco

favero@inrete.it

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:11:17 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:11:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Lynn boyd 
Reply-To: Lynn boyd 
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
CC: Chris Cochrane , marco favero 
Subject: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



        Chris and Marco,

           Since I cannot return to Italy again at this time I
        am fortunate to be able to settle for a vicarious
        trip through your beautifully written post, Chris.
        Your visual images were captivating.
           The names of the people you met through Marco have
        some familiarity through other suiseki connections and
        writing, and it was like meeting them to hear of your
        experience and treatment by them
           I may well know the Italian hospitality and generosity,
        but this time it was from Marco, whom we can speak to
        at will and with a comraderie of similar interests so it
        is especially rich.
           You were in an area I have not yet seen, in three trips
        to Italy, so either I have to enjoy this vicarious
        experience or be terribly envious.  I think I am going
        back and forth between these feelings!
           Marco, I almost feel like I owe you a thankyou, also,
        for making this trip so memorable for Chris - in as much
        as I am enjoying it through his conversations. Of course,
        I think it was a grand gesture for you to have taken
        a guest into your private life upon first meeting, but
        aside from that your knowledge and experiences would
        especially enrich a suiseki admirer like Chris.

           And, Marco, I wish to say now because I did not sooner
        my thankyou for your post with your basic aesthetic phil-
        osophy introduction.  It is a more comfortable position
        to engage in discussions when one knows from what platform
        the others are beginning their thought structure.
        And, I think yours, and Chris'and mine are so different
        in background that we need to know one another's, then
        because of those differences a discussion can be
        intensely enriched.
            I am overwhelmed with work until after the Christmas
        holidays, but will try at odd moments to begin what might
        be acceptable as mine, and when Chris is strong enough
        again his is interesting with his knowledge of religions
        to consider.  Then, perhaps, a recognition of our structures
        for building our thoughts will appear that will make our
        paths parallel, though not alike, as is the way of philosophical
        thought most often.  Those differences interest me immensely,
        since that is what makes us individual and rich to one another.
            Thankyou, Marco and Chris, for your time and effort
        to share your good time together with us, and Marco to you
        for your philosophical post as well. 
            Lynn

     

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:00:45 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia" 
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia" 
To: "Lynn boyd" , 
CC: "Chris Cochrane" , "marco favero" 
Subject: Re: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:01:23 -0600
Message-ID: <01bd0645$a55eb780$dbaa61ce@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Chris and I are working on a small project to put the adventure on my site,
pictures an narrative.  I am very excited about this as it will be a first.
I feel the same way that you do Lynn, the narrative was so spell bounding
that I just had to ask Chris if we could see it as well as hear it...he
agreed!!!, We are working on it, and as soon as it is ready, we will
announce it, not only to the Stones Mailing list, but to the rest of the
world....very exciting if you ask me.

Garry
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn boyd 
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
Cc: Chris Cochrane ; marco favero 
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 9:22 PM
Subject: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS


>
>
>        Chris and Marco,
>
>           Since I cannot return to Italy again at this time I
>        am fortunate to be able to settle for a vicarious
>        trip through your beautifully written post, Chris.
>        Your visual images were captivating.
>           The names of the people you met through Marco have
>        some familiarity through other suiseki connections and
>        writing, and it was like meeting them to hear of your
>        experience and treatment by them
>           I may well know the Italian hospitality and generosity,
>        but this time it was from Marco, whom we can speak to
>        at will and with a comraderie of similar interests so it
>        is especially rich.
>           You were in an area I have not yet seen, in three trips
>        to Italy, so either I have to enjoy this vicarious
>        experience or be terribly envious.  I think I am going
>        back and forth between these feelings!
>           Marco, I almost feel like I owe you a thankyou, also,
>        for making this trip so memorable for Chris - in as much
>        as I am enjoying it through his conversations. Of course,
>        I think it was a grand gesture for you to have taken
>        a guest into your private life upon first meeting, but
>        aside from that your knowledge and experiences would
>        especially enrich a suiseki admirer like Chris.
>
>           And, Marco, I wish to say now because I did not sooner
>        my thankyou for your post with your basic aesthetic phil-
>        osophy introduction.  It is a more comfortable position
>        to engage in discussions when one knows from what platform
>        the others are beginning their thought structure.
>        And, I think yours, and Chris'and mine are so different
>        in background that we need to know one another's, then
>        because of those differences a discussion can be
>        intensely enriched.
>            I am overwhelmed with work until after the Christmas
>        holidays, but will try at odd moments to begin what might
>        be acceptable as mine, and when Chris is strong enough
>        again his is interesting with his knowledge of religions
>        to consider.  Then, perhaps, a recognition of our structures
>        for building our thoughts will appear that will make our
>        paths parallel, though not alike, as is the way of philosophical
>        thought most often.  Those differences interest me immensely,
>        since that is what makes us individual and rich to one another.
>            Thankyou, Marco and Chris, for your time and effort
>        to share your good time together with us, and Marco to you
>        for your philosophical post as well.
>            Lynn
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:25:09 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:26:09 +0100
Message-ID: <199712121226.NAA30263@inrete.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Lynn boyd 
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca

At 19.46 11/12/97 -0800,Lynn Boyd you wrote:
>
>    Garry,
>       I am delighted with that idea!
>       It will be a project that will let Chris and Marco
>     enjoy their days all over again.
>       I should ask them if they believe that will enhance
>     the original pleasure - since that might well be
>     an aesthetic question,  whether or not repeating subjective
>     experiences with objective views of it are enhancing it
>     or not.  (Laughing - but, of course, wishing we could sit
>     in person and discuss such a thing  :)

     Lynn,
     i don't know what Chris thinks about,but for me that was
     an aesthetic enlightenment;all life during we have an aesthetic
     approach subjective with objective views and i am becoming to believe
     that empathy of Theodor Lipps answer  well to my thoughts 
     and feelings:he lists three kinds of pleasures,first i can enjoy
     one thing or sensible object distinct from me,second i can enjoy
     myself,i.e. my ability,my strenght etc.;third possibility is tied
     to other two:i can enjoy myself in a sensible object distinct from
     me,this is aesthetic pleasure,and he says that aesthetic delight
     is a objective enjoyment of myself.
     the subject transfers himself inside object for to find himself in it,
     and for to proof so how much he was unacquainted of himself.
     our recent experiences between Chris and me go into this explanation
     at least for me,and more we are helped to refine our sensitiveness
     more we are aware of our being and our links with nature,in this
     case with stones.

>     Marco will have given us more than just his generosity to Chris.

     thank you so much for this last thought;if i given to Chris even a 
     very small contribution(of which i doubt:-)) to do spout his delightful
prose,then i am very glad for him,for you and for me.
    
     my best regards
    
     marco


     favero@inrete.it   

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:25:31 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:26:39 +0100
Message-ID: <199712121626.RAA06665@inrete.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS

At 19.11 10/12/97 -0800,Lynn Boyd you wrote:

>           Marco, I almost feel like I owe you a thankyou, also,
>        for making this trip so memorable for Chris - in as much
>        as I am enjoying it through his conversations. Of course,
>        I think it was a grand gesture for you to have taken
>        a guest into your private life upon first meeting, but
>        aside from that your knowledge and experiences would
>        especially enrich a suiseki admirer like Chris.

         Lynn,
         thanks for your kind thoughts,what i did it has been
         done simply for a friend and i am glad that all subscribers
         of this list can enjoy with us reading deep and kind Chris' words;
         in one sense it is like if you all were near us feeling
         our own sensations and participating to our own discoveries.
>
>           And, Marco, I wish to say now because I did not sooner
>        my thankyou for your post with your basic aesthetic phil-
>        osophy introduction.  It is a more comfortable position
>        to engage in discussions when one knows from what platform
>        the others are beginning their thought structure.
>        And, I think yours, and Chris'and mine are so different
>        in background that we need to know one another's, then
>        because of those differences a discussion can be
>        intensely enriched.

         i agree,know your enemy and you will win:-),joking apart
         i think it was a good beginning to show my general platform,
         the debate can enhance if we start with a similar base,
         now i wait when you want and can your base approach,thanks.

     Thankyou, Marco and Chris, for your time and effort
>        to share your good time together with us, and Marco to you
>        for your philosophical post as well. 
>            Lynn
         
         Leave me thanks even all readers of this list for their patience
         and persistance reading my humble posts,and thanks to you too,Lynn.
         
         marco

         favero@inrete.it 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:25:46 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:26:46 +0100
Message-ID: <199712121626.RAA06672@inrete.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: marco favero 
Reply-To: marco favero 
Subject: Re: CHRIS' AND MARCO'S POSTS

At 09.01 11/12/97 -0600,Garry Garcia you wrote:
>Chris and I are working on a small project to put the adventure on my site,
>pictures an narrative.  I am very excited about this as it will be a first.
>I feel the same way that you do Lynn, the narrative was so spell bounding
>that I just had to ask Chris if we could see it as well as hear it...he
>agreed!!!, We are working on it, and as soon as it is ready, we will
>announce it, not only to the Stones Mailing list, but to the rest of the
>world....very exciting if you ask me.
>
>Garry

Garry,

if you need any help on this project,please let me know,i will be happy
to give you my humble contibution.
greetings

marco

favero@inrete.it

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:59:44 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
To: gary@garopa.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:43:50 +0000
Subject: Re: Chrysanthemum Stones
Message-ID: <19971214.225518.3286.3.norbalt@juno.com>
References: <199712051307.IAAAA29178@x9.boston.juno.com>
From: norbalt@juno.com
Reply-To: norbalt@juno.com

Gary,

	In my opinion, as far as Viewing Stones are concerned, they are
not appropriate, but as representation of Chinese Stone Carving Art goes
they are beautiful.  If I had the money I sure would like to add these to
my collection of art in a heart beat.  Personally, I saw the site and
they never really presented them as Viewing Stones, but as Chinese Art.

To each his own.

God Bless and Keep You and Yours,

Have a Great 1997, Regards from Pawnee America
Tom La Bron
Home E-Mail:   norbalt@juno.com
Office E-Mail:  norbal@okway.okstate.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 5 Dec 97 8:01:52 EST Gary Bolstridge
 writes: 
content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
>I ran across a URL containing pictures of Chrysanthemum Stones from 
>Hunan.    It is posted by a company offering the stones for sale. Some
seem to 
>have just the base cut flat, but others have been ornately carved. To
me, 
>they are VERY unatractive and I am sure some people on the list will go
off 
>extreme rants. I see the altered stones as an affront to nature - but 
>I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Anyway, anyone interested
may 
>view the stones at:
>
>  
>http://205.187.251.3/goldenstone/hunanstone.htm
>
>Gary Bolstridge
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:57:04 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig J. Hunt" 
Reply-To: "Craig J. Hunt" 
To: 
Subject: Viewing Stone List Admin, Mailing List Processor help
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:58:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Gang;

This is the help file for the viewing stone mail list.

You can get a copy of this by sending an email to;

viewing_stone-request@triumf.ca

with the text;

help

This is probably a good email to save for future reference.

Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
   http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm 

----------
> From: MX mailing list processor 
> To: Craig J. Hunt 
> Subject: Mailing List Processor help
> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 10:51 AM
> 
> Depending on the mailing list, some of the following commands will be
handled
> automatically through the -Request interface:
> 
>     SUBSCRIBE           - to subscribe to a mailing list
>     SIGNOFF             - to remove yourself from a mailing list
>     REVIEW              - to get a list of subscribers
>     QUERY               - to get the status of your entry on the list
>     SET NOMAIL          - to remain on the list but not receive mail
>     SET MAIL            - to reverse the NOMAIL setting
>     SET CONCEAL         - to conceal yourself from REVIEW listings
>     SET NOCONCEAL       - to reverse the CONCEAL setting
>     SET NOREPRO         - to prevent the list from sending you your own
postings
>     SET REPRO           - to reverse the NOREPRO setting
>     LIST                - to get a list of mailing lists available on
this host
>     HELP                - to receive a help file
>     QUIT                - to terminate processing (skipping signature,
etc.)
> 
> You must send your commands in the body of a mail message.  Subject lines
in
> mail messages are ignored.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:42:27 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Craig Coussins" 
Reply-To: "Craig Coussins" 
To: 
Subject: From Craig Coussins
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:39:37 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD0E72.1511F180"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: 

{ATTACHED WORD DOCUMENT SNIPPED, by Craig Hunt, craig_hunt@geocities.com}

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:56:49 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia" 
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia" 
To: 
Subject: Subscribe
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:57:31 -0600
Message-ID: <01bd152a$df345340$775f47cc@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Subscribe
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandi Humphrey-E10220 
To: ggarcia@vvm.com 
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:35 PM
Subject: Viewing Stones


>Please add me to the Viewing Stone Mailing List.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:12:45 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia" 
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Subscribe
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:13:27 -0600
Message-ID: <01bd152d$19606020$775f47cc@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Please ignore this, Sandi wants to join the mailing list, and I thought I
could forward the mail with subscribe, but that does not work...anyway I
gave her instructions with a hyperlink to viewing stones.

ggg
-----Original Message-----
From: Garry Garcia 
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 8:04 PM
Subject: Subscribe


>Subscribe
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sandi Humphrey-E10220 
>To: ggarcia@vvm.com 
>Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:35 PM
>Subject: Viewing Stones
>
>
>>Please add me to the Viewing Stone Mailing List.
>>
>

    Source: geocities.com/tokyo/garden/1666

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