Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:28:22 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<,
Subject: Suiseki News
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:26:43 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdc156$ffdf1480$303faccf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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A note to friends in the viewingstone mail list and to individuals on email
in the Potomac area suiseki group.
Amazon.com recently added Willi Benz's text on suiseki (yet to be published
in English) on its book list. After seeing the book in German, I definitely
want it. It includes stones from several excellent European Collections
including the collection of Andrea Schenone, which surely is the premiere
collection of Ligurian object stones. Walter Pall recently translated Willi
Benz's Japanese aesthetic term "yoin" (post-sound) for the mail list. It
will be terrific to see the English translation of Willi's book spread new
insight! BTW, FelixR's book was $10.00 less for a short time on another web
site before publishing-- this is a LIMITED time offer from Amazon, I
suspect.
From Amazon:
- The Art of Suiseki; Classic Japanese Stone Gardening
- Willi Benz / Hardcover / Published 1998
- Our Price: $20.97 ~ You Save: $8.98 (30%) (Not Yet Published -- On Order)
(Note: Potomac suiseki group can avoid the extra charge of mailing to each
of us separately if someone wants to order for all. If I order, I'd
deliver-- or have copies mailed-- to the Bonsai and Penjing Museum. Email
me if you are interested.)
Yesterday I was searching for stones on the James River in my hometown. The
water is low now so that you can hop or wade between rocks to about 1/3 the
way across the river (or more) in many places. In other seasons this same
river area can be VERY dangerous for kayakers. In any case, I found only
one suiseki prospect... :-(.
As I sat on a high stone along with my terrier in the middle of the river,
what joy! Looking upriver in the early evening, the sun was shining beyond
a bridge-- glinting so brightly that eyes had to be shielded. Paddlers were
making their way toward canoe take-outs. Looking downriver, a new moon was
rising in the blue sky. Fishermen (& fisherwomen) were throwing and
retrieving lines.
About a hundred ducks and one great blue heron were floating or paddling in
the water or perched upon rocks at about 150-200 yards distance... and
gradually they were disturbed enough to depart in twos, threes or more.
Whenever many arose, several would have wigtips beating the top of the water
in a straight line until they finally achieved altitude. Some large
formations passed right above me, and it appeared that several small groups
formed, disbanded and reformed within the larger group as they passed.
Only my bob-tailed terrier's wagging to move-on convinced me not to stay
until twilight... :-)
If the Potomac group wants to hunt suiseki in the mountains, I'd be willing
to add my little knowledge and deep interest. I'd recommend we float to
rock outcroppings in low rivers. I use truck inner tubes, which are a slow
and delightful way to travel. A more prepared river venturer could use a
canoe to cover more ground, but then you do have to paddle... :-). You
might want to rig an extra inner tube for packing your finds... :-)))...
We'll need several cars as exit points may be few and far between and on
opposite sides of rivers with few crossings.
I'm off to Kyoto, Japan for an Intensive Garden Seminar starting September
10, so we have to plan quickly (one of the last weekends of August, unless
you are free during the week). Email me if interested.
BTW, I am planning 2 weeks in Japan on my own if a suiseki enthusiast wants
to tag along. You must be intertested in slogging through long days,
however, and not too interested in late nights. I'll be starting
independent travel on September 26 in Kyoto and leaving October 9 from Tokyo
to Seattle.
I'm always interested in commentary on stones in Japanese and Chinese
contexts and ran across this in a travel book (_Old Kyoto: A Guide...--
Durston). "Cha-kaiseki" is the term we hear as describing a meal
accompanying the tea ceremony. The characters for "kaiseki" used in this
context literally mean "a stone in the folds of a kimono," which refers to
an old Zen practice of sending priests to bed with nothing but a hot stone
in their kimonos to keep them warm.
... just another "post sound," I reckon. Hope Peter Aradi will let us know
if that is a proper translation.
_Kaiseki_ as a term used in Japanese inns and restaurants for a multi-course
banquet is supposedly written with different characters than _cha-kaiseki_.
Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:44:52 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<
CC:
Subject: Suiseki news
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:43:10 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdc159$4be9b720$303faccf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
A note to friends in the viewingstone mail list and to individuals on email
in the Potomac area suiseki group.
Amazon.com recently added Willi Benz's text on suiseki (yet to be published
in English) on its book list. After seeing the book in German, I definitely
want it. It includes stones from several excellent European Collections
including the collection of Andrea Schenone, which surely is the premiere
collection of Ligurian object stones. Walter Pall recently translated Willi
Benz's Japanese aesthetic term "yoin" (post-sound) for the mail list. It
will be terrific to see the English translation of Willi's book spread new
insight! BTW, FelixR's book was $10.00 less for a short time on another web
site before publishing-- this is a LIMITED time offer from Amazon, I
suspect.
From Amazon:
- The Art of Suiseki; Classic Japanese Stone Gardening
- Willi Benz / Hardcover / Published 1998
- Our Price: $20.97 ~ You Save: $8.98 (30%) (Not Yet Published -- On Order)
(Note: Potomac suiseki group can avoid the extra charge of mailing to each
of us separately if someone wants to order for all. If I order, I'd
deliver-- or have copies mailed-- to the Bonsai and Penjing Museum. Email
me if you are interested.)
Yesterday I was searching for stones on the James River in my hometown. The
water is low now so that you can hop or wade between rocks to about 1/3 the
way across the river (or more) in many places. In other seasons this same
river area can be VERY dangerous for kayakers. In any case, I found only
one suiseki prospect... :-(.
As I sat on a high stone along with my terrier in the middle of the river,
what joy! Looking upriver in the early evening, the sun was shining beyond
a bridge-- glinting so brightly that eyes had to be shielded. Paddlers were
making their way toward canoe take-outs. Looking downriver, a new moon was
rising in the blue sky. Fishermen (& fisherwomen) were throwing and
retrieving lines.
About a hundred ducks and one great blue heron were floating or paddling in
the water or perched upon rocks at about 150-200 yards distance... and
gradually they were disturbed enough to depart in twos, threes or more.
Whenever many arose, several would have wigtips beating the top of the water
in a straight line until they finally achieved altitude. Some large
formations passed right above me, and it appeared that several small groups
formed, disbanded and reformed within the larger group as they passed.
Only my bob-tailed terrier's wagging to move-on convinced me not to stay
until twilight... :-)
If the Potomac group wants to hunt suiseki in the mountains, I'd be willing
to add my little knowledge and deep interest. I'd recommend we float to
rock outcroppings in low rivers. I use truck inner tubes, which are a slow
and delightful way to travel. A more prepared river venturer could use a
canoe to cover more ground, but then you do have to paddle... :-). You
might want to rig an extra inner tube for packing your finds... :-)))...
We'll
need several cars as exit points may be few and far between and on
opposite sides of rivers with few crossings.
I'm off to Kyoto, Japan for an Intensive Garden Seminar starting September
10, so we have to plan quickly (one of the last weekends of August, unless
you are free during the week). Email me if interested.
BTW, I am planning 2 weeks in Japan on my own if a suiseki enthusiast wants
to tag along. You must be intertested in slogging through long days,
however, and not too interested in late nights. I'll be starting
independent travel on September 26 in Kyoto and leaving October 9 from Tokyo
to Seattle.
I'm always interested in commentary on stones in Japanese and Chinese
contexts and ran across this in a travel book (_Old Kyoto: A Guide...--
Durston). "Cha-kaiseki" is the term we hear as describing a meal
accompanying the tea ceremony. The characters for "kaiseki" used in this
context literally mean "a stone in the folds of a kimono," which refers to
an old Zen practice of sending priests to bed with nothing but a hot stone
in their kimonos to keep them warm.
... just another "post sound," I reckon. Hope Peter Aradi will let us know
if that is a proper translation.
_Kaiseki_ as a term used in Japanese inns and restaurants for a multi-course
banquet is supposedly written with different characters than _cha-kaiseki_.
Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 13:38:35 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <35CA2FF7.BD45F2B8@ionet.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 15:36:39 -0700
From: Peter Aradi
Reply-To: paradi@ionet.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Chris Cochrane
CC: "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Suiseki news
References: <01bdc159$4be9b720$303faccf@sashai.erols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Chris Cochrane wrote:
>
BIG SNIP
> I'm always interested in commentary on stones in Japanese and Chinese
> contexts and ran across this in a travel book (_Old Kyoto: A Guide...--
> Durston). "Cha-kaiseki" is the term we hear as describing a meal
> accompanying the tea ceremony. The characters for "kaiseki" used in this
> context literally mean "a stone in the folds of a kimono," which refers to
> an old Zen practice of sending priests to bed with nothing but a hot stone
> in their kimonos to keep them warm.
>
> ... just another "post sound," I reckon. Hope Peter Aradi will let us know
> if that is a proper translation.
>
> _Kaiseki_ as a term used in Japanese inns and restaurants for a multi-course
> banquet is supposedly written with different characters than _cha-kaiseki_.
You are right.
Regular kaiseki is written with the characters "meeting, assembly, club"
+
"seat, mat, place, occasion" = meeting place, restaurant dinner.
Kaiseki for the tea ceremony is written using the characters kai for
"heart" + seki "stone". Different characters.
Interestingly the second version in not in the New Nelson, the most
authoritative Japanese English character dictionary. But the kanji
are in the index of Saddler's Cha-no-yu. The story is also in the
same book and since it is rather old, published in 1933, I believe
Saddler is Durston's source.
Cheers
Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 18:12:53 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia"
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia"
To: "Chris Cochrane" , "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<
CC:
Subject: Re: Suiseki news
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:10:36 -0500
Message-ID: <01bdc1a0$2ef86200$869283d0@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
Huge snip.
To save you some time and effort looking for FelixR's book go to my site,
click on the "BOOK STORE" when you get to the books, the first one is Felix
Rivera's book, click on the button and it will take you directly to his book
at Amazon.com. you can purchase the book right there.
BTW, FelixR's book was $10.00 less for a short time on another web
>site before publishing-- this is a LIMITED time offer from Amazon, I
>suspect.
I will be adding Willi's book soon.
Thanks for the great info Chris, always appreciate it.
My Web Site: www.vvm.com/~ggarcia
Take care
Garry
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 18:18:41 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia"
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia"
To: "Chris Cochrane" , "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<
CC:
Subject: Re: Suiseki news
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:16:18 -0500
Message-ID: <01bdc1a0$faff37c0$869283d0@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Small correction, when you get to my book store, the second book is Felix
Rivera's, the first one is Joe Davies Creating Bonsai, which is also an
excellent book.
thanks
>Hi all,
>
>Huge snip.
>
>To save you some time and effort looking for FelixR's book go to my site,
>click on the "BOOK STORE" when you get to the books, the first one is Felix
>Rivera's book, click on the button and it will take you directly to his
book
>at Amazon.com. you can purchase the book right there.
>
> BTW, FelixR's book was $10.00 less for a short time on another web
>>site before publishing-- this is a LIMITED time offer from Amazon, I
>>suspect.
>
>I will be adding Willi's book soon.
>
>Thanks for the great info Chris, always appreciate it.
>
>My Web Site: www.vvm.com/~ggarcia
>
>Take care
>
>Garry
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:32:26 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Garry Garcia"
Reply-To: "Garry Garcia"
To: "Suiseki Newsgroup"
Subject: Fw: Suiseki
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:30:41 -0500
Message-ID: <01bdc723$2612f000$22ae61ce@ggarcia.vvm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone in the group have any answers to Bills question?
-----Original Message-----
>Garry,
>
>This is a serious question.............
>
>If a stone mounted on wood is Suiseki, then what would you call a piece
>of Drift Wood mounted on a flat stone????? Is there an equivalent
>Japanise/Chinese word for it???
>
>I currently live in South Florida. There are not too many opportunities
>for collecting stones down here as they are all coral rock. I do have
>the opportunity to collect lots of beautiful drift wood and flat rocks
>(petrified mud from the pleistocene era) from Big Pine Key where I have
>a second house. I have mounted these pieces of drift wood on these flat
>rocks and they are quite beautful to look at.
>
>Just wondering if there is a oriental name for this kind of art.
>
>THANKS!!!!!
>
>Bill G
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:28:54 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "MORROW, CARL,"
Reply-To: "MORROW, CARL,"
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:25:49 SAST-2
Subject: Re: sui-driftwood...?
Message-ID:
Dear all
:) If a stone mounted on wood is Suiseki, then what would you call a
:) piece of Drift Wood mounted on a flat stone????? Is there an
:) equivalent Japanise/Chinese word for it???
I do not have a name for it, but while I was traveling through Suzhou
I notice that many of the pavilions in the gardens contained
naturally formed wooden sculptures. Most of them where twisted root
bases of trees that had been slightly carved to emphasise the
suggested form. For example, one sculpture had the flowing forms of
a dragon and at the one end an eye had been subtly created along with
a slight emphasis of the mouth. These particular pieces where not
mounted on a customised base, they where just placed on beautiful old
tables and stands.
Along the Li River in Guilin I also came across a wood carving
shop that was again using natural pieces of wood to create some
pretty grotesque sculptures of eagles etcetera.
Regards
Carl Morrow
**
**/***
+----------------------------------+ ****\\*****
| Carl Morrow | ***** //> ******
| University of Cape Town | ****** /// ****
| email: MORROW@BOTZOO.UCT.AC.ZA | ******* <\\
| Postal Address: | \\\\
| Department of Botany | //\\\\\\
| Private Bag Rondebosch, 7701 | (IIIIIIIIIIIIIII)
| South Africa | [IIIIIIIIIIIII]
+----------------------------------+ { } { }
Long Lived Bonsai !
P.S. Windows has a mind of its own; If this sig looks odd
then kick your browser back in line!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:37:12 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "MORROW, CARL," ,
Subject: Re: sui-driftwood...?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:28:02 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdc798$498d5f00$0d3eaccf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
BillG through Garry writes,
>:) If a stone mounted on wood is Suiseki, then what would you call a
>:) piece of Drift Wood mounted on a flat stone????? Is there an
>:) equivalent Japanise/Chinese word for it???
There must be a word for the "as found" root slightly carved in Chinese art,
as Carl described it.
When visiting Bath, England, there was a private oriental art museum just
off one of the famous classical circuses. The early 20th century collector
who formed this museum had several examples, appearing to be an old art form
displayed among his spectacular collection of ancient Chinese porcelains.
On the web, one art site has equated stone and root carving as art:
http://www.art-webdesign.com/gallery/artappreciation/stone1.htm
Rolf Stein speaks of aromatic woods (specifically eaglewood) being deified
as symbolic of a Vietnamese female deity who is sought (in wood) by the
Chinese...
she gains value by returning through a flood and by aging through natural
processes into a more essential form that has been released from its origin
into a hard black twisted form that is highly valued for its form as well as
for use as incense-- note that I interpret a rather wandering dialogue where
one theme drifts into another & they may not truly be connected, as implied,
here... ;-(
Stein also comments that in southern China and SE Asia, trees are thought to
have spiritual powers or essenses (_ching_)-- perhaps similar to _chi_
spirit. _Ching_ means the quintessence of materials that have gone through a
refining process-- e.g., white rice, distilled alcohol, purified metal. Old
essences (_ku ching_)-- rise in the rank of spirits as they grow older (thus
old hearth tiles, unusable limestone pots and shards of glass, bottles,
bowls et al. are deposited at the foot of ancient sacred trees). "Withered
wood root" certainly evokes this image.
Addtionally, the spirits of trees are thought to be female spirits with
disheveled hair, which is associated with the plant's roots because plants &
trees are thought to live upside down. Stein goes on to talk of sap flow
being equated with the movement of seamen, but that's a sticky subject best
left to the bonsai newsgroup... :-)
Carl writes.
>.. traveling through Suzhou, ... the gardens contained
>naturally formed wooden sculptures... a dragon ...
>pretty grotesque sculptures of eagles etcetera.
A Chinese antique shop about 75 miles from me displays these occasionally.
They do seem like as-found objects slightly enhanced (usually not slightly
enough as the crude carving can be more distracting attractive).
Hope others will post more even though we are wandering off-topic. These
seem to be related arts.
Thanks for the question, BillG & Garry.
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:06:33 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<, "<
CC:
Subject: musing
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:02:32 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdcbb4$af0c1b80$45f4accf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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The local Barnes and Noble just updated its magazines, and I thumbed through
Arts in Asia & Orientations magazines hoping for stones. They were there.
In one, an apparently two-sided, black, vertical Chinese Scholar's Rock that
had holes and furrows but little depth and a mostly smooth front didn't
appear very natural was advertised for a second time. The illustration for
a sale by Sydney Moss of London was of a gray, vertical C'S' Rock of perhaps
limited merit. For me, the Rosenblum Collection catalog has raised
expectations for these stones to be spectacular. Reasonably, they vary
tremendously in impact. I suspect even the photographing process can change
one's opinion dramatically.
The other magazine had a couple of stones advertised by Blue Moon Jade in
California, which has been discussed before. B'M'J' apparently has
exclusive collecting rights in a California area with evocative stones, and
they display them with antiques that they sell. Notable are stands from
B'M'J' which can be overdone while still modestly crafted. One of the
advertised stones was a lump with little merit in terms of contour but a
nice color and texture. It sat in a stand with a carved backplate intended
to indicate a flaming halo behind the revered stone, intended as a human
figure. Does it indicate decadence in stone aesthetics to push images so
far by stand design... it indicates an distinctive market, at least.
Jim Hayes latest edition of "Waiting To Be Discovered," (newsletter for
NAVSS) just arrived and it is magnificent. Jim had his usual array of
unbelievably strong graphics on the front and back cover. The text was
longer than usual because, as Jim noted, he didn't wish to split articles
between editions. The West Coast authors in the US continue to be primarily
featured, and they provide exceptionally good articles.
Jim Greaves article entitled "Revealing the Beauty Within" on cleaning and
surface enrichment of stones is bound to become a classic in viewing stone
literature- it is simply the best article to date in anticipating
enthusiasts desires and sharing the experience of positive and negative
results obtained by a variety of surface enhancements. I hope folks will
discuss it on-line... :-)
Max Braverman's article on making "Bondo" dai is the best yet-constructed.
His pictures and descriptions are exacting and CLEAR. Here, one of
America's foremost potters explains in exacting detail a relatively easy
method to make stands with auto-body filler. Nice job.
Rob Yeager does an incredibly strong article entitled "Suiseki in Los
Angeles," somehow encompassing all of Southern California-- and then some...
;-)-- in convincing the reader of the dedicated first generation of suiseki
leaders arising from this community.
Felix Rivera describes the special experience of collecting in the desert.
Frank English informs us on subtle differences among sandbar, reef & tidal
pool stones.
Finally, a Chiara Padrinil from Italy displays a difficult to mount stone on
a mossy knoll in the middle of a stone slab. When Chiara attempts the feat,
it seems more authentic than almost any other attempt at non-traditional
display. Perhaps that impression arises because I am aware of how steeped
she is in suiseki aesthetic exactitude before she chooses an alternative.
I'm going to have to look at those Blue Moon Jade daiza, again... perhaps
I'm just not loose enough to expend my eye beyond established precedents...
:-(
BTW, only 2 of us subscribed so far for a collecting trip to a Virginia
mountain stream. Any other takers? You'll probably have to supply your own
flotation-- preferably 2 truck inner tubes. Extra vehicles will allow for
covering more area. We are scheduled to make the trip on either Saturday
8/29 or Sunday 8/30.
May we all be on a river or mountainside, none too soon!
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:44:31 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "John J. Perry"
Reply-To: "John J. Perry"
To: "viewing_stones"
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:43:43 -0700
Message-ID: <01bdd37c$f29999c0$64de23c7@gateway.nevada.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
REVIEW viewing+AF8-stones
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:13:06 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "John J. Perry"
Reply-To: "John J. Perry"
To: "viewing_stones"
Subject: desert varnish
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:12:08 -0700
Message-ID: <01bdd380$eb06adc0$64de23c7@gateway.nevada.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hi,
-
sorry about the previously misdirected message to the listserv -
-
now, for a question to the group -
-
what is the prevailing opinion on the application of iron and
manganese oxides (artificial desert varnish) to cover scars? --
jp
John J. Perry
P.O. Box 61197
Boulder City, NV
89006-1197
email: jperry01+AEA-ix.netcom.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:34:25 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "viewing_stones"
CC:
Subject: International Auctions
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:29:52 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdd3ad$4df13be0$9f3daccf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The Chubb +ACI-Antiques Roadshow,+ACI- as seen on television here, was evaluating
items in Richmond, today. One of the appraisers shared a glossy
advertisement copies of William Doyle Galleries' upcoming auctions in New
York. The only picture displayed for the Sept. 14th +ACI-Asian Works of Art+ACI-
was of a 51+ACI- Chinese Lingbi Scholar's Rock on a Jiangnan stand estimated to
bring +ACQ-10,000-15,000. A very NICE stone with numerous furrows and opposing
hanging cliffs.
When I recently spoke with Christie's specialist who does searches on
individual items (+ACQ-25 for ten hits wherever they are found in Christie's
worldwide galleries), she had never heard of suiseki but was VERY familiar
with Chinese Scholar Rocks. Recent Sotheby catalogs also show numerous
Scholar Rocks, but I haven't seen suiseki listed.
In the US, many of us learned of viewing stones through bonsai pursuits and
suiseki took first stage. In the world of art auction houses, apparently
that is not the case.
That is a surprise to me. Why would suiseki not have a world stage as
Japanese sword fittings, tea-related items and netsuke/inro do?
Peter Aradi tells me there are suiseki enthusiasts' magazines in Japan that
advertise regular auctions. Peter has some terrific insights into the
Japanese aesthetic of stones based on seeing those magazines, and I hope he
will share them... though perhaps he has in magazine articles he has
published that I don't receive...
For those REALLY into stones, I noticed on the Doyle Gallery webpage that a
15-1/2+ACI- Indian lingam stone (item +ACM-58, I think) plus stand was estimated to
bring +ACQ-1000-1500.
Hope this will encourage others to post info' on stones are seen in the
market as well as collected. The enthusiasts' newsletters seldom cover this
area.
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai+AEA-erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:00:03 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "viewing_stones"
Subject: william doyle auction 9/14
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:55:27 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdd3b0$e11b27c0$9f3daccf@sashai.erols.com>
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If you can browse the
http://www.doylegalleries.com/sales/upcoming/asiancat.html site, a number of
lingbi stones and even fossilized rock are being sold (items +ACM-307-314
including stone picture screens). Unfortunately I couldn't cut and paste
the selection.
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai+AEA-erols.com, Richmond VA USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:34:12 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Joe Davies"
Reply-To: "Joe Davies"
To: "Chris Cochrane" , "viewing_stones"
Subject: Re: william doyle auction 9/14
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 08:33:54 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID:
Chris
Many thanks for sharing this info. Interesting to see such items for sale.
Any idea how we get at the pictures of the stones?
Joe
----------
> From: Chris Cochrane
> To: viewing_stones
> Subject: william doyle auction 9/14
> Date: 30 August 1998 01:55
>
> If you can browse the
> http://www.doylegalleries.com/sales/upcoming/asiancat.html site, a number
of
> lingbi stones and even fossilized rock are being sold (items +ACM-307-314
> including stone picture screens). Unfortunately I couldn't cut and paste
> the selection.
>
> Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai+AEA-erols.com, Richmond VA USA
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 07:46:28 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "John J. Perry"
Reply-To: "John J. Perry"
To: "viewing_stones"
Subject: text
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 07:45:54 -0700
Message-ID: <01bdd424$e41a9360$deab5ccf@gateway.nevada.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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hi all,
i could only capture the text --
jp
See Color Illustration 307
Good Gray And White Variegated Dali Marble Table Screen, Xiaozuopingfeng
Named Omei jauyun (Morning mist over Mount Omei +AFs-Buddhist retreat in
Sichuan+AF0-)
Fitted within a hardwood frame which slides into a double bracket hardwood
stand. Height overall 27 7/8 inches (70.8 cm)
C
+ACQ-3,000-4,000
See Illustration 308
Rock In The Form Of A Crouching Bear
Black Lingbi limestone with white veining, Lingbi, Anhui Province. Length 21
1/2 inches (54.6 cm)
C
+ACQ-4,000-6,000
See Color Illustration 309
Fossilized Wood In The Form Of A Soaring Mountain Peak
Jiangnan style base. Height 17 1/2 inches (44.4 cm)
C
+ACQ-2,000-3,000
See Color Illustration 310
Rock In The Form Of A Striding Dromedary
Black Lingbi limestone with white veining, Lingbi, Anhui Province
Northern style base. Length 23 1/2 inches (59.6 cm)
C
+ACQ-3,000-5,000
See Color Illustration 311
Circular Dali Table Screen, Xiaozuopingfeng
Signed, Yuen Yan Wan Jiao (Sunset) and Bai Yuen jushu (White Cloud scholar)+ADs-
fitted within an elaborate frame with ropework which is raised on a wildly
pierced stand and separate table-form stand. Height overall 31 inches (78.7
cm)
C
+ACQ-2,000-3,000
See Illustration 312
Good Yellow Wax Stone Scholar's Rock (Huanglashi)
Guangdong or Guangxi Province
Jiangnan style wood base. Height 14 1/2 inches (36.8 cm)
C
+ACQ-3,000-4,000
See Color Illustration 313
Overhanging Rock In Motion With A Lengthy Inscription
18th/19th Century, Lingbi, Anhui Province
Jiangnan style wood base. Height 21 1/2 inches (54.6 cm)
A lengthy inscription on the back relates that a Gao Shinchun found this
stone in the headwaters of a river at Lingbi and was taken by its beautiful
shape. Two years later, his friend Shu Wenchang, searching the same
headwaters, discovered a matching stone. The two were compared and they
appeared to be a natural pair. The inscription on this stone was cut by one
Bao Puyen. The other half of this pair was probably given the name +AGA-Moon' as
this stone has been named +AGA-Sun.'
C
+ACQ-10,000-12,000
See Color Illustration 314
Large Vertical Rock With Perforations And Outcroppings
18th/19th Century
Black Lingbi limestone with white veinings and inclusions, Jiiangnan style
base, height 51 inches (129.5 cm)
C
+ACQ-10,000-15,000
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:02:30 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Joe Davies"
Reply-To: "Joe Davies"
To: "viewing_stones"
Subject: Mountain Style Suiseki For Sale
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:23:48 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID:
Friends
Excuse me for mailing you through our little mail-list but I wanted to
acquiant you with an opportunity before I opened it up through my website.
My good friend Dave Sampson (who many of you have heard me speak glowingly)
has decided to part with 10 quality suiseki from his personal collection. I
have created an online viewing catalog for him at my website. The stones in
question have formed the cornerstone of his wonderful collection for many
years. The pressure of space and the requirement for additional spendy
money for an imminent trip to Japan (more stones!) have persuaded him to
part with these stones.
All the stones are Mountain Style Suiseki and collected originally by Dave
in the UK and California or by Felix Rivera in Calfornia. They are all on
superb hardwood stands carved by Dave himself.
An extra amazing thing about this opportunity is that Dave has decided to
foot the shipping costs himself, when you consider that some of the stones
weigh in excess of 9 kilos you will appreciatte that combined with their
low prices, this is the bargain of
a lifetime (excuse the hype, but it really is). This includes shipping to
anywhere in Europe or North America by Air Mail which is a fast and safe
service, and our chosen and proven method.
Dave is leaving for Japan the middle of next week, so if you wish to
acquire one of these stones please let me know soonest so I can arrange to
have it at my own home ready to ship.
For those of you that know me and trust my judgment I can assure you of the
quality of these stones and their stands.
The stones can be viewed at:-
http://www.btinternet.com/~bonsai.suiseki/dave
If you would like further info please email me.
Regards
Joe Davies
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:09:48 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: Delphigrup@aol.com
Reply-To: Delphigrup@aol.com
Message-ID: >
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:09:19 EDT
To: sashai@erols.com
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: International Auctions
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-29 20:34:49 EDT, you write:
<< When I recently spoke with Christie's specialist who does searches on
individual items (+ACQ-25 for ten hits wherever they are found in Christie's
worldwide galleries), she had never heard of suiseki but was VERY familiar
with Chinese Scholar Rocks. Recent Sotheby catalogs also show numerous
Scholar Rocks, but I haven't seen suiseki listed.
In the US, many of us learned of viewing stones through bonsai pursuits and
suiseki took first stage. In the world of art auction houses, apparently
that is not the case. >>
You're right. If you review the Chinese Art auction catalogs from Sotheby's
or Christies, you'll see a lot of scholars' rocks, which are very hot right
now, perhaps due to Richard Rosenblum's traveling exhibition (which was in
Zurich recently) and the renewed popularity of scholars' objects in general.
At the International Asian Art Fair in NY last spring they were all over the
place! In Orientations magazine, by the way, there are ads for stores
featuring mainly scholars' rocks.
In China, scholars' rocks have been highly valued for quite a long time.
There are Tang dynasty paintings of barbarians bringing tribute to the
emperor, and what are they bringing? Rocks! By the end of the Northern Song
dynasty (~1125), rocks, of both the garden and desktop varieties, were
extremely popular. One scholar, Mi Fu, was visiting a province, and offended
the local magistrate by visiting and paying his respects to a famous rock
there before paying his respects to the magistrate. The last emperor of the
Northern Song dynasty, Huizong, made incredible efforts to obtain the best
collection of rocks ever known. At this time, the hierarchy of artistic value
went as follows: calligraphy, painting, rocks, and then, several layers later,
ceramics. This sort of sensibility has been revived, I think, and that is why
you see the rocks in auction catalogs.
Rocks did go out of style for a while. You'll notice in the shows of valuable
objects from the National Palace Museum and the Palace Museum in Beijing that
no rocks are shown at all. By the end of the Cultural Revolution the idea
that rocks were valuable artistic objects had practically disappeared. This
is why Richard Rosenblum was able to build such a large collection: people, by
and large, thought the rocks were junk. Now they are viewed as abstract art,
although they sometimes represent mountains as well. Mountains are of central
importance in Chinese art, so the fact that they do this adds to their
importance.
Now, I have no idea if rocks were ever so important to the Japanese, and they
subsequently were neglected, or if they are just simply not regarded as a
serious form of art. But that's due to my ignorance about suiseki, so I
welcome any replies you all have!
Thanks,
Steve Gaskin
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:42:06 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Message-ID: <35EAC3E8.A2F123C0@ionet.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:40:24 -0700
From: Peter Aradi
Reply-To: paradi@ionet.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "viewing_stones@triumf.ca"
Subject: Re: International Auctions
References: >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Delphigrup@aol.com wrote:
>
> BIG SNIP
> Now, I have no idea if rocks were ever so important to the Japanese, and they
> subsequently were neglected, or if they are just simply not regarded as a
> serious form of art. But that's due to my ignorance about suiseki, so I
> welcome any replies you all have!
>
Scholar's stones were introduced to Japan from China along with other
"superfluous things." Until rather recently, they were considered items
of luxury and ownership/appreciation was restricted to a small elite.
This was unlike China where in parallel with scholar's stones or perhaps
even preceding it, an appreciation of stones developed in connection
with the popular or folk version of Daoism. For example much of the
overseas Chinese stone appreciation is based on these Daoist aesthetics
rather than that of the scholars'. Good examples of these stones and dry
landscape gardens created from stones can be seen in immigrant
Vietnamese communities in the US.
The imperial family had a stone collection for over a millennium and
not coincidentally at least two of the most recent presidents of the
Japan Suiseki Association were head priest of the Meiji shrine, the
central Shinto institute most often associated with the imperial
family and with Shinto as a former state religion.
That's all in a nutshell, the details are beyond the scope of this
NG.
Cheers
Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:52:42 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Joe Davies"
Reply-To: "Joe Davies"
To: ,
CC:
Subject: Re: International Auctions
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:32:15 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-ID:
I emailed the auction house Chris mentioned regarding the stones. This is
there reply for those of you who may be interested.
Joe
Thank you for expressing an interest in William Doyle Galleries.
Unfortunately, photographs of items in upcoming auctions are not available
over the internet. The catalogue for the auction is available for sale by
phoning our Subscriptions Department at 212.427.2730. If you wish to
receive
photocopied information on only the lot numbers you requested, then please
forward your fax number or mailing address.
Regards,
Julie Liepold
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:46:29 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:43:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ron Prosser
Reply-To: Ron Prosser
To: Chris Cochrane
CC: viewing_stones , paradi@ionet.com
Subject: Re: International Auctions
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If the Doyle webpage reference is really for an Indian lingam, this is
something quite different from Suiseki or scholar's rocks. This refers
to a rock in a roughly phallic shape which represents the generative
force of different gods.
Ron Prosser
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Chris Cochrane wrote:
> The Chubb +ACI-Antiques Roadshow,+ACI- as seen on television here, was evaluating
> items in Richmond, today. One of the appraisers shared a glossy
> advertisement copies of William Doyle Galleries' upcoming auctions in New
> York. The only picture displayed for the Sept. 14th +ACI-Asian Works of Art+ACI-
> was of a 51+ACI- Chinese Lingbi Scholar's Rock on a Jiangnan stand estimated to
> bring +ACQ-10,000-15,000. A very NICE stone with numerous furrows and opposing
> hanging cliffs.
>
> When I recently spoke with Christie's specialist who does searches on
> individual items (+ACQ-25 for ten hits wherever they are found in Christie's
> worldwide galleries), she had never heard of suiseki but was VERY familiar
> with Chinese Scholar Rocks. Recent Sotheby catalogs also show numerous
> Scholar Rocks, but I haven't seen suiseki listed.
>
> In the US, many of us learned of viewing stones through bonsai pursuits and
> suiseki took first stage. In the world of art auction houses, apparently
> that is not the case.
>
> That is a surprise to me. Why would suiseki not have a world stage as
> Japanese sword fittings, tea-related items and netsuke/inro do?
>
> Peter Aradi tells me there are suiseki enthusiasts' magazines in Japan that
> advertise regular auctions. Peter has some terrific insights into the
> Japanese aesthetic of stones based on seeing those magazines, and I hope he
> will share them... though perhaps he has in magazine articles he has
> published that I don't receive...
>
>
> For those REALLY into stones, I noticed on the Doyle Gallery webpage that a
> 15-1/2+ACI- Indian lingam stone (item +ACM-58, I think) plus stand was estimated to
> bring +ACQ-1000-1500.
>
> Hope this will encourage others to post info' on stones are seen in the
> market as well as collected. The enthusiasts' newsletters seldom cover this
> area.
>
> Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai+AEA-erols.com, Richmond VA USA
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:46:10 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane"
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane"
To: "viewing_stones"
Subject: Lingam et al.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:41:31 -0400
Message-ID: <01bdd4fe$355fe2a0$4df4accf@sashai.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Ron writes,
>If the Doyle webpage reference is really for an Indian
>lingam, this is something quite different from Suiseki
>or scholar's rocks. This refers to a rock in a roughly
> phallic shape which represents the generative force of
>different gods.
I agree that it is different, Ron. It certainly is an object intended for
devotional purposes-- often in Shiva ceremony it is washed with milk. And
there is the "yoni" stone representing the genitalia of Shiva's consort.
Japanese suiseki collectors, especially in the era of "floating world"
aesthetics and increasingly today, also collect object stones including
sexually-oriented body parts. Questionably, these are related more to
fetish or foppish sexuality than a distant mountain stone. I know that I
enjoy them as indicative of "okashi"-- a Japanese approach to humor that
exceeds conventionality. Many bonsai enthusiasts also have heard Kathy
Shaner discuss "omoishiroshi"-- a Japanese term indicating humor and
especially light-heartedness, which Kathy reads also as expressing lightness
in design. Contemplation can be enhanced by a little lightness, I think.
Chinese, Japanese and Indian stones are intended for contemplation and tied
with recognition of forces that extend beyond man's natural control. In its
simplistic cigar shape, the lingam displays the most minimalist design of
traditional stones for contemplation. Whether the origin of a stone is
intended for very serious (e.g., the lingam) contemplation or light-hearted
("okashi")contemplation, I see them in a related world.
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
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