Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 05:46:42 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:03:23 -0500
From: "Wm. N. Valavanis" 
Reply-To: WNV@internationalbonsai.com
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To: Chris Cochrane 
CC: viewing_stones@triumf.ca
Subject: Re: Teaser (including air fare!)
References: <01be02ac$6515a3a0$de3eaccf@sashai.erols.com>
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Hi Chris,

Sounds like you had a good time in Japan. I'm interested in the special
airfare from Continental and tried calling them. The person I tried knew
nothing about a special offer.

Any more information would be helpful.

Thanks

Bill
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 16:08:11 PST
Sender: owner-viewing_stones@triumf.ca
From: "Chris Cochrane" 
Reply-To: "Chris Cochrane" 
To: 
CC: 
Subject: Re: Teaser (including air fare!)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:05:22 -0500
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Hi Bill.  Always great to see that luminaries are lurking on the viewing
stone list... ;-).    You write,

>Sounds like you had a good time in Japan. I'm interested in the special
>airfare from Continental and tried calling them. The person I tried knew
>nothing about a special offer.

Continental is just opening a route into Tokyo, as I understand it, & cut
rates dramatically for a limited time (and probably limited to a certain
number of seats per flight) at $779 for the first person and $77.90 for a
companion (not including tax).  Mr. Yoshitake was able to find fares
hundreds of dollars less than I could find on the internet when I went to
Japan, so I know he is good at capturing current rates.  On Friday, Mr.
Yoshitake informed me that NW Airlines is matching rates with Continental
(at least for some flights).

Mr. Yoshitake, who runs a successful business & travel service (as well as
translating Japanese for those who need the service)  can be reached at
take@yoshitake.com for details. I think tickets have to be purchased before
November 13 and travel must begin before December 15, but I don't have the
flyers before me that to verify that.

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

================================================================================
From: Joe Davies 
To: viewing_stones 
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 4:39 AM
Subject: Website

>My apologies to anyone who attempted to visit my new suiseki website and got
>defeated with the complexities of the presentation. I've resolved that by
>offering two versions - a 'high-res' version with all the bells and whistles
>and pretties, and a 'low-res' version with just the information. Both at
>http://www.suiseki.com/
>
>Cheers
>
>Joe

================================================================================
From: Craig Coussins 
To: Chris Cochrane ; viewing_stones@Triumf.CA 
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: THE premier suiseki collection

>What's wrong with wanting to have The Premier Collection. Great self
>Motivation Chris and should be encouraged not de motivated by pontificating.
>Its all very well to defend such a stance by generalising from a point of
>self depreciation but the underlying view is clear enough.
>
>Lets look at this in another form.
>
>My wife is the best wife in the world. My kid is going to be the worlds
>greatest violinist or even, Joe Davies has the best web site on the net. Its
>all subjective and if someone wants to have the best suiseki collection on
>the Net or in Arkansas, who gives a suiban.
>
>Just remember that to be motivated requires a number of different points of
>view. I want to be as good a Bonsai Master as John Naka. I 'probably'
>haven't a hope in hell but that does not stop me from emulating, following
>or being inspired by him. So one day I will be the greatest Bonsai Master in
>Glasgow. probably, possibly or whatever.
>
>I have great suiseki. In fact I have suiseki that NO one has. I have unique
>Suiseki and therefore I must have the premier suiseki collection in , er,
>um, ah, MY STREET.
>
>Lighten up. There only stones after all so who really cares about who has
>what.
>That is, unless your a pigeon and I'm a cat!
>Yours sincerely,
>Craig Coussins.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Cochrane 
>To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
>Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 11:08 PM
>Subject: THE premier suiseki collection
>
>
>>Recently, a friend told me he intends to one day have THE premier suiseki
>>collection. As a collector of viewing stones, he didn't qualify this to
>>state "in the Western World" or "in the United States," so I assume he
>>thinks his will be the premier collection in the world. Why was I taken
>>aback?
>>
>>It seems to me that collectors in every land see in their own stones
>>something that they find wonderful and beyond compare elsewhere. Are they
>>often willing to adopt suiseki aesthetics as far as those aesthetics lead
>to
>>support the quality of stones readily found in their local? It seems so to
>>me... and I'm guilty myself of warmly embracing aesthetics that support the
>>stones I can collect. Additionally, there are connoisseurs everywhere who
>>tend to adopt very narrow and rigid guidelines that only support only a
>very
>>few stones as truly suiseki.
>>
>>If you judged a stone merely on its evocative quality separate from its
>>history, it might be possible to amass a collection that was outstanding--
>>even premier. If you consider the suiseki aesthetic of the Japanese,
>>however, no Western collection will ever be considered premier as we
>haven't
>>the history of reiheki among any of our stones (well, maybe the "Stone of
>>Scone"-- has it ever been displayed "aesthetically"... ?) What viewing
>>stones do we have to compare with suiseki known to have been displayed by a
>>famous teamaster before eminent guests, suiseki cherished by past emperors,
>>suiseki related contemporaneous to historical events hundreds of years in
>>the past.
>>
>>George Washington's wooden teeth are an irreplaceable historical artifact
>>and even the finest artist's reproduction couldn't compare as a replacement
>>to one who appreciates George's teeth as George's. Neither can Western
>>stones or any recently-collected stone compare in suiseki quality with
>>documented _reiheki_ as the foremost examples of the suiseki aesthetic.
>>
>>When I hear folks bandy about that the stones they recently collected or
>>purchased are surely _meiseki_, I also am surprised. This moniker would
>>normally be applied, as the concept "master" is applied to talented
>>teachers, as the rare individual item that over a number of years has been
>>recognized by experts as of exceptional quality. Recently collected stones
>>should improve in quality as their "skin" is developed with careful
>rubbing.
>>Recognition as _meiseki_ should not occur overnight or be related solely to
>>documentation in an exhibit or a book.
>>
>>Peter Aradi has warned us of insincere marketing of items in Japan related
>>to tea ceremony by "teamasters," and we should be doubly forewarned of
>>_meiseki_ recently arisen in Western collections. That is not to say that
>>wonderful suiseki aren't common among Western collections, and some stones
>>will definitely build a positive reputation among collectors. Their
>>reputation and quality will speak for them without the owner shouting.
>>
>>Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

================================================================================
From: Chris Cochrane 
To: viewing_stones@Triumf.CA 
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: THE premier suiseki collection

>CraigC thoughtfully writes,
>>What's wrong with wanting to have The Premier
>>Collection. Great self Motivation Chris and should
>>be encouraged not de motivated by pontificating...
>
>Another friend wrote privately, "... the stone itself is a means to an end,
>not the end itself." He went on to say that partaking in the universal
>experience we share in viewing stones exceeds in real value the ownership of
>suiseki.
>
>Meeting someone excited about viewing stones and sharing in their excitement
>is a terrific experience. Seeing an outstanding stone is a terrific
>experience. Finding a book that reveals something previously hidden is a
>terrific experience. Recognizing how little I understand and knowing that
>more will be revealed keeps this form of displaying found objects a
>continual treat. There will always be more to learn about the stones
>themselves, their display and especially in ways of appreciating their
>display.
>
>Craig appreciates owning suiseki among other things; my other friend
>appreciates the experience of viewing. I like both, but most like studying
>what others say about viewing stones as it is affordable and gratifying
>(perhaps more so than ownership) and easier to share than the experience of
>appreciation. The lazy and miserly road easily taken... :-)
>
>BTW, in the post I incorrectly referred to _yuraiseki_ (suiseki or biseki
>owned by famous historical persons or related to a notable historical event)
>as _reiheki_ (literally "steep cliff stones" which is the term used by
>Japanese suiseki collectors to characterize Chinese stones of the scholars'
>rock tradition). Sorry for the error.
>
>Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

================================================================================
From: Craig Coussins 
To: Chris Cochrane ; viewing_stones@Triumf.CA 
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: THE premier suiseki collection

>In that case learning from other than one who apparently is above the
>normality of us mere mortals is a better thing than learning from one who
>is. Wow Chris, I am really impressed by all your incredible and immense
>knowledge. I shudder in your shadow and shake with the realisation that none
>of us can achieve your exalted and well read understanding. Mind you I say
>the same about the Encyclopaedia Britannica. Its also a bit dry!
>
>I have read a little, studied a little and collected , a little. I don't
>speak Japanese, and I don't think Japanese. I don't lecture people unless I
>am paid, and you know what Chris. I am really quite happy. I did not realise
>that, your quote, "most like studying what others say as it is affordable
>and gratifying, perhaps more so than ownership".
>
>You know Chris. In all my 30 odd years of collecting and learning about
>Suiseki I sort of never had that thought before. I really cant for the life
>of me think why I never had that thought. Maybe its because I actually got
>me a life.
>
>I really could not sleep worrying about the difference between yuraiseki and
>reiheki.
>So once again thank you for that incredible and important information{:-)
>
>You know something. A stone is a stone and its what you imbue within what
>you view as to the stones value. Nothing about what other races creeds or
>colours preach about it. Its what you like in a stone . That is what brings
>Suiseki down to a level that can then be appreciated by everyone. Down to a
>level?
>Well anything below what I have been reading is more accessible to me and I
>hope, one or two other lovers of suiseki.
>
>What do the rest of ya think? You've all been kinna quiet recently. Or am I
>and 'S.A' Sensei on our own.
>
>
>
>Yours sincerely,
>Craig Coussins.

================================================================================
From: Chris Cochrane 
To: viewing_stones@Triumf.CA 
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: THE premier suiseki collection

>Hi Craig. Hi Tom. Thyanks for replying.
>
>Craig writes,
>>... I am really impressed by all your incredible and
>>immense knowledge. I shudder in your shadow and
>>shake with the realisation that none of us can achieve
>>your exalted and well read understanding.
>
>As I've noted, the more I study the less complete I realize my knowledge of
>suiseki is... and that is the realization, not intended to be exalted, that
>I attempt to share. There is much to learn, and I'm a student.
>
>>I did not realise that, your quote, "most like studying what
>>others say as it is affordable and gratifying, perhaps more
>>so than ownership".
>
>If I understand, you don't perceive that learning about suiseki aesthetics
>can be more affordable and gratifying than owning an important collection.
>I have to concede that you have collected for 30 years, travelling widely,
>and have stones that relate to Scottish sites, your travels and to
>friendships. That is important and gratifying. Perhaps any expenses were
>also affordable as you got more from an experience than its "costs."
>
>>I have read a little, studied a little and collected , a little.
>>I don't speak Japanese, and I don't think Japanese.
>
>If we sit viewing a stone and you refuse to see its full aesthetic
>possibilities because you don't "think Japanese," how gratifying is that?
>It is lost opportunity.
>
>Tom adds,
>>>It would seem that you are saying that unless you have
>>>some kind of verifiable history for your stones in your
>>>collection they are nothing more than rocks on fancy
>>>display stands. So why would anybody pay $600 for a
>>>stone collected by a westerner anywhere, no matter how
>>>beautiful it is, since it doesn't have a history that anyone
>>>knows about.
>
>I hope I didn't say that. I collect stones myself and purchase stones that
>aren't Asian. $600 is a paltry amount for an object having substantive
>aesthetic value, but gorgeous suiseki can likely be purchased from
>collectors for that amount.
>
>When you know the origin of a found stone, what was perceived about the
>stone when originally collected and what has been perceived by viewers since
>its discovery, you have more than the object itself. A fuller history adds
>further layers. Without knowledge added to the suiseki, a perfect
>reproduction of that stone would have the same qualities. That is not bad
>or without value, but it is not fully valued for what it could offer
>aesthetically.
>
>Of course, there are numerous factors besides obvious beauty in valuing any
>art object. That the object relates to the cultural place/period in which
>it was found/produced is certainly relevant. A 19th century suiseki in
>cave-form related to the site of 19th century mine disaster has certain
>evocative value that a new stone would not. If Mona Lisa was painted in the
>19th century, it would have relatively minor value (aesthetic, and likely
>monetary) as a pastiche of earlier works.
>
>We can argue aesthetic vs. monetary value, and I would agree they often
>conflict...
>
>Best wishes, Craig & Tom...
>Chris
>
>Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
>
>
>
>Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sashai@erols.com, Richmond VA USA
>
>
>
>>
>>You know Chris. In all my 30 odd years of collecting and learning about
>>Suiseki I sort of never had that thought before. I really cant for the life
>>of me think why I never had that thought. Maybe its because I actually got
>>me a life.
>>
>>I really could not sleep worrying about the difference between yuraiseki
>and
>>reiheki.
>>So once again thank you for that incredible and important information{:-)
>>
>>You know something. A stone is a stone and its what you imbue within what
>>you view as to the stones value. Nothing about what other races creeds or
>>colours preach about it. Its what you like in a stone . That is what brings
>>Suiseki down to a level that can then be appreciated by everyone. Down to a
>>level?
>>Well anything below what I have been reading is more accessible to me and I
>>hope, one or two other lovers of suiseki.
>>
>>What do the rest of ya think? You've all been kinna quiet recently. Or am
>I
>>and 'S.A' Sensei on our own.
>>
>>
>>
>>Yours sincerely,
>>Craig Coussins.

================================================================================
From: Craig J. Hunt 
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 12:28 PM
Subject: Viewing Stone Mail List Administration

>Hi Gang;
>
>I will be off on vacation from this evening (Nov .10) till first thing
>Monday morning, Nov. 16 so if there are any problems with the Viewing Stone
>mail list they will have to wait......
>
>I hope to go stone collecting on the beaches of Vancouver Island......
>
>Have a great weekend everyone!
>
>Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
>home; craig_hunt@geocities.com work; craig@triumf.ca
>http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm

================================================================================
From: Craig J. Hunt 
To: viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 4:40 PM
Subject: Viewing Stone Mail List Archives

>Hi Gang;
>
>I just thought I'd let you know that the previously missing Viewing Stone
>mail list archives are now online at;
>
>http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/1666/vslist.htm
>
>Everything from June 10, 97 till October 31, 98 is there.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Have a great weekend everyone!
>
>Craig J. Hunt in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
>home; craig_hunt@geocities.com work; craig@triumf.ca
>http://www.triumf.ca/people/craig/craig.htm

================================================================================
From: Flex123@aol.com 
To: joe@suiseki.com ; viewing_stones@triumf.ca 
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: "Treasures Transcending Time"

>Joe,
>
>A great website, as usual from you. I am thoroughly enjoying it.
>
>Dave Bockman

================================================================================





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