| More evidence of an Old Earth and Universe (Against the 7,500 year old Earth and Universe the Bible states) |
| The competition begins: |
| Real Science vs. Creation Science |
| Christian Sites |
| <<<---- The Conflict ------>>> |
| Science Sites |
| Creation science says the Earth's depleting magnetic field proves young Earth and the end of the world is near / Real science says the Earth continually flips it's magnetic poles. |
| Creation science says the Grand Canyon was made from Noah's flood / Real science says it was from millions of years of erosion. |
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Early Human History - Scientists are constantly finding evidence that many civilizations date back beyond 4,000 BC. Rock paintings in Western Australia have been dated at 100,000 years old. To find conflicts with human history, you don't even need to go beyond 4,000 BC. Because Usher's timeline requires that Noah's flood took place around 2,500 BC, the existence of the Egyptian First Dynasty in 3,600 BC creates a huge problem for the young earth view. Mega Meteor Impacts - Researchers have found dozens of meteor-impact craters that are so large they would have profoundly affected the earth's climate. One crater in Northern Canada is around 60 miles wide. A giant meteor that struck the Mexican Yucatan Peninsula is blamed for causing one of the largest mass extinctions of dinosaurs. It's inconceivable that the biblical writers could have missed reporting an event that would have blanketed the globe with a choking blizzard of ash. Super Volcanoes - Several of the earth's volcanoes periodically have erupted with a force so massive in scale, they would dwarf any eruption that modern man has ever witnessed. The Toba Caldera on the island of Sumatra once exploded with a force that released a volume of ash 3,000 times greater than the amount produced by the 1980 Mount St. Helen’s eruption. Core samples taken 2,000 miles away from Toba have measured ash layers as deep as 36 inches. Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming is the home of one of these super volcanoes. If it were to erupt, much of North America would be devastated by the blast. Mount Everest - Ages ago, the Eurasian and Indian continents collided spectacularly to form the Himalayan mountain range. Geological movement continues to take place today as India is gradually pushed beneath China and Nepal at a rate of about 3 inches per year. Going by the current rate of upwelling, it has taken Mount Everest at least 100,000 years to rise to its 29,035-foot elevation. Before the great collision, the bedrock that makes up the Himalayan range was once at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. The top 1,500 feet of Mount Everest is comprised of limestone. This type of rock is slowly formed by the deposition and consolidation of the skeletons of marine invertebrates. Because these creatures are minuscule, it would take a very long time to accumulate these limestone layers. Coral Reefs -Coral is made up of the skeletons and calcium deposits of tiny animals that live in warm, shallow seas. It takes an estimated 100 years to produce a few centimeters of coral growth. One coral atoll has been measured at 3,900 feet in depth. Light and Cosmic Events - The sun is one of countless numbers of stars in the Milky Way. Our little galaxy is over 100,000 light years across. This means that light from some stars in our galaxy has taken many tens of thousands of years to reach earth. A common explanation for our ability to see stars that are millions of light years away is that God created the light from these distant stars already in transit. The problem with the light-in-motion claim is that as light travels through the universe, forces it encounters alter its properties, giving us a travel log of its journey. Many of the cosmic events we see in the universe take millions of years to occur. It doesn't seem logical for God to have constructed such a multifaceted, elaborate hoax. Bristlecone Pine Trees - The annual growth rings of trees are among the most reliable measures of time. Some Bristlecone pine trees in the White-Inyo mountain range of California date back beyond 6000 BC. Algae Growth Cycle - During the springtime, tiny, one-celled algae bloom in Lake Suigetsu, Japan. They die and sink to the bottom of the lake, where they create a thin, white layer. During the rest of the year, dark clay sediments settle to the bottom. The results are alternating dark and light annual layers -- much like the annual growth rings on a tree. Scientists have counted about 45,000 layers. Moon Dust - Measurements by sensors attached to satellites show that space dust accumulates on the moon at the rate of about 2 nanograms per square centimeter each year. (A nanogram is one thousandth of a millionth of a gram.) This rate would require 4.5 billion years to reach a depth of 1.5 inches, which is approximately the depth experienced by the astronauts who walked on the moon. Cosmic Rays - The Los Alamos National Laboratory has developed a method of measuring the length of time that surface rocks have been exposed to cosmic rays. Cosmic rays stream into the atmosphere from all directions in outer space and break neutrons free when they collide with air molecules. When these neutrons hit rocks on the ground, they sometimes react with a tiny number of mineral atoms that create radioactive isotopes. At sea level, a few hundred modified atoms are created each year in a gram of quartz near the surface of the ground. New measuring techniques can detect very small numbers of these atoms and thus estimate the number of years that the rocks have been exposed. Scientists have found ages of about 8,500 years for "recent" glacial moraines in Newfoundland and 830,000 years for extinct volcanoes in Nevada. Radioactive Decay -The "nuclide" argument is one of the best proofs of an old earth. Nuclides are forms of matter that are radioactive. Each nuclide decays into another form of matter at a certain rate. After an interval of time equal to its half-life, only half of the original material is left. Scientists have found that every nuclide with a half-life of over 80 million years can be found naturally occurring on earth. All nuclides with a half-life under 80 million years do not exist naturally at detectable levels. Ice Ages - In North America, more than 20 glacial advances and retreats have occurred during the last 2 million years. It takes a foot of snowfall to produce an inch of glacial ice. Since some of the ice is thousands of feet thick, it takes centuries of snow to produce each ice age event. These glaciers would have had to move across the land like freight trains to fit into the 6,000-year model. Hawaiian Island Chain - If we could remove all of the water in the Pacific Ocean, we would find that the Hawaiian Islands are peaks on a 10,000-foot-high ridge that extends 3,000 miles to the northwest. The Hawaiian chain gets progressively older and becomes more eroded farther beyond the volcanically active region of the "Big Island" of Hawaii. All three factors - the movement of the ocean crust, the building of volcanic islands, and the erosion - are time-consuming geological processes. Seating capacity - A lot of creationists try to defend the narrow timeline of the young earth view by arguing that Noah brought all the animals that ever existed onto the ark with him. They fail to realize that many of these prehistoric creatures were huge; some beasts weighed as much as 100 tons. However, getting all those bulky dinosaurs onto the ark would have been the least of Noah's problems. Scientists estimate that a total of 10 million species have existed on the earth. Because Noah never could have crammed that many animals into the ark, when the rains came, it would appear that most of them were left standing at the dock. It is interesting to note that scientists have calculated that Noah could have fit all of the 16,000 species of land animals currently living on the earth into the ark. Coal - The Great Flood is frequently cited as the instantaneous creator of many fossil records. Geologists tell us that coal took millions of years to build up, and creationists point to the Flood as the source. The claim is made that when the Flood transpired, it buried all the earth's vegetation, creating the coal we mine today. The problem with this theory is that the available amount of plant material could not account for coal layers that are hundreds of feet thick. It would have taken several feet of organic material like ferns, grasses, and a few bugs just to produce a few inches of coal. Salt Deposits - In the state of Utah, there is a huge, underground deposit of salt created by the continual evaporation of a shallow sea that once covered the land. The dome is nearly 5,000 feet deep and it was pushed to the surface by volcanic forces. Noah's flood cannot account for such a vast quantity of salt being deposited in a compact location and in such short stretch of time. A steady stream of water over millions of years is the only plausible solution. Grand Canyon I - Young earth proponents like to disprove popular belief that the Grand Canyon is the result of millions of years of erosion by saying the Great Flood carved out the steep canyon walls in a few days. There are several problems with this simple explanation for the formation of the Grand Canyon. The Canyon is not the product of flooding. It was formed by the uplifting of a plateau by mountain-building events. The narrow inner gorge of the Grand Canyon and its many tributaries are the antithesis of the erosion that would be found as part of a broad floodplain. Grand Canyon II - The Grand Canyon example is a two-parter in order to also account for all those thousands of layers of sedimentary rock that give the Grand Canyon its beauty. Creationists often say the Great Flood laid down the layers and in its aftermath, the receding waters dug out the gorge. One of the more prominent formations in the Grand Canyon is the Coconino Sandstone. This layer is found only a few hundred feet below the rim. Geologists have described this sandstone as originating from an ancient desert. Remnants of sand dunes can be seen in many outcrops of the formation in a phenomenon called cross bedding. Many footprints in this sandstone have been recognized as those of lizards scurrying across the desert. It's ridiculous to think there could be a sandy desert formation wedged between a series of layers that were all formed by the same flood event. The Earth's Magnetic Field - Over the past 150 years, there has been a measured decrease in the earth's magnetic field. The decrease is hailed as positive proof that the planet was created around 6,000 years ago. The argument is made that if we went back in time a million years, the earth's magnetic field would be too strong for life to exist. It’s baffling that some folks can assume the decline in the magnetic field has been a continuous event. It is common knowledge that our planet's magnetic field has frequently shifted between the North Pole and the South Pole. When volcanic lava erupts onto the surface and cools, the iron molecules embedded in the rock retain a record of the earth's magnetic field. A detailed examination of core drillings retrieved from the ocean floor has found the magnetic polarity of the poles has changed several times. The Gulf of Mexico - Several creationist books argue that the earth must be relatively young because the Gulf of Mexico would have filled up with sediment from the Mississippi River had the process been going on for millions of years. True, a large amount of the sediment—some 500 million tons annually--is carried to the Gulf each year. However, it is incorrect to assume that the Gulf Coast region has always been as we see it today. Many moons ago, a shallow sea once reached all the way up to the central Midwest. At one time, the mouth of the Mississippi River would have been located in southern Iowa. The Movement of Celestial Bodies - Young earth creationists frequently cite the movements and gyrations of heavenly bodies to support their views. They point to data showing that the sun is shrinking as solid evidence that the earth can only be a few thousand years old. They claim that if time were to be reversed by millions of years, the sun would become too large and hot for life to exist on earth. They also cite reports that show that the moon is pulling away from the earth at a rate of 2 inches per year, adding that this, too, could not be a process millions of years old. People who use these types of proofs clearly lack the most basic understanding of the movements of the sun and moon. All celestial bodies wobble and oscillate as they travel through space. Gaseous bodies like our sun have the added feature of being able to pulsate. Years down the road, we might find the sun expanding and the moon slowly orbiting closer to the earth. |
| Creation science says the Dinosaurs lived at a time of man (funny how the bible left out dinosaurs) / Real science says Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago before man. |
| "Second Law of Thermodynamics": Creationists twist the meaning to serve their needs and really should go to college science classes, especially if they are going to try to throw around Physics Laws that they know nothing about. |
| Bonus Point: |
| Creation science says that Microevolution is possible yet Macroevolution is not (not all Xian science says this) / Real science says evolution is evolution . Seems the Christians that say this only conflcit themselves. Macro means large change to longer time span, Micro means small change due to small time. For them to say Microevolution exists means they state Macroevolution is possible. Also Microevolution takes a longer time than the bible timeline (FYI, man from ape is Microevolution since we are 99.4% ape).....Question : how many years does it take mating 2 wolves to make a Chihuahua? Hint: longer than 10,000 years. |
| Xian science says that Darwinism is false due to Darwin using the word "mutation" to describe changes in races. And that to say "mutation" it has to mean genetic damage to the DNA structure and harmful./ We don't even need science for this one. We simply need the dictionary to show the truth.. He simply meant mutation as "natural change", Christians want to say natural change is not possible because that is evolution, they say God created all races (unless you are one of those Microevolution vs. Macroevolution people). FYI: The fruit fly experiment did not have destructive results to the gene but simply stimulated certain areas to become active. As you can learn from Berkeley's site on the right. Also damaged nucleotides would NOT make perfect extra body parts EX: a perfect extra toe, or leg. If God controls the makeup of all things, then man surely won God in an arm wrestle on this one. |
| Dictionary definition of "Mutation"... 1. The act or process of being changed. 2. An alteration or change, as in nature, form or quality. 3.Genetics. a. A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an orgainism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type. b. The process by which such a change occurs in a chromosome, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA coding for a gene or through a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome. c. A mutant 4. Linguistics. The change that is caused in a sound by assimilation to another sound, such as umlaut. |
| An example on how to debate Creation Science with Real Science |
| We will use this site as a good example, it sure seems convincing at first reading: |
| Now for the problems on the site: FYI: Ark = 450 feet, Titanic = 883 feet 1) Since Noah's event was only 1,556 years after creation dinosaurs would have still been alive as well as all other ancient species (hundreds of millions). They wouldn't fit in that ark, and that is just the land dwellers of course (but for fun add the fresh water fish if you want and the tanks that are needed for them and other animals like seals, sea lions, penguins, etc. since they need a place to rest or they drown, then add all the plant species Noah had to transplant). The ark was 2,075,000 cubic feet (3,585,600,000 cubic inches) so even if the hundreds of millions of species were only one inch cubed they still wouldn't fit (100 million species alone at one inch cubed would use up 5,400,000,000 cubic inches). 2) Then the problem of the fresh water and food supply that they solve by saying, "God put the animals into a supernatural hibernation". Ah, yes let's pull the "God can do anything" act to solve that problem or they would be admitting defeat. We will give them that, they are going to need it. 3) Now comes the funny part, they say Noah only had to bring each kind (somehow Christians think "kind" is not species imagine that) so they say that all the species EVOLVED from these basic "kinds". They are now saying evolution is real to a certain extent as long as it serves their purposes only. But if you read Gen 7: 14, it says cattle of all kinds (cow like) and every bird of every sort (not one kind). Guess they lost that one. 4) Now they state, "there are NO scientific facts showing that Noah's ark is not real" this in itself is not an intelligent comment. You cannot have evidence showing something doesn't exist. Show me evidence that fairies don't exist...you cannot. It is up to them to show evidence that the ark does exist. At least now we see the mentallity Christian science is based on. Fortunately, the bible gives us information on the ark and it's story so that we can disprove the story. However, Natural Earth Scientists agree if there was such a flood, overwhelming evidence would be around the world supporting such an event, but they searched and found none. 5) Now we are done reading the site , but the debate isn't over: a) Once the ark landed the meateaters would eat the planteaters to extinction (of course Christians will say ALL animals were plant eaters at that time, newsflash....sharp toothed animals cannot chew cud, they were meant for eating flesh. Example: T- Rex, tigers.etc.) b) After landing, Noah planted seeds to grow plants (since all the plants died in the time of the flood due to no sunlight, overwatering, and the flood water pressures)...so there was no food for the planteaters until the plants finally grew.That is okay, I guess, since the meateaters would eat them all to extinction anyway before they had time to breed and multiply. c) Why are there animals on other countries that aren't in the area Noah landed? Example: kangaroos, penguins, etc.. d) If God can do anything, why didn't he create the ark for Noah? e) Also with that kind of load on a wooden ark on those stormy waters, well look what happened to the Edmond Fitzgerald and that was made of steel. And since they didn't have steel supports back then...well you get the picture. f) In the time God gave Noah to get the animals in the ark (one week)...it would be an impossible feat even if all the animals were all standing in a tight line to begin with. BONUS ROUND: God created a rainbow after the flood for the first time. Well since the Earth was already thousands of years old it had to have rained before at sometime. And to create a rainbow all you need is light, reflection and refraction. Well since of these were not around to create a rainbow after raining any other time before the great flood, everything had to be pure blackness. Amazing Noah could even see to build the ark then. |
| BONUS COMPETITION ROUND: AQUATIC APE THEORY I came across this site while using google and found some pretty disturbing things they said so I just thought I would slam one back for the Atheist's Team. Here goes........ This one I will defeat out of pure enjoyment :) |
| This Christian site talks about the 'Aquatic Ape Theory'. Well they might find a better thing to challenge themselves with since this is a weak theory still and is made from ideas without any definite evidence, yet. Instead we will just show how ignorant they sound by simple common sense. 1) Notice the picture on the page. It shows a monkey giving birth to a human underwater. And the article says the apes lived under the seas. For one thing the theory says they were 'Aquatic' but doesn't say apes breathed under water. It simply says we lived in a wet setting, whether it was in the water or in a very moist setting, like damp caves, etc. (eg: The hairless mole rat lost his hair living in a moisture setting). And it is clear they flunked science because you cannot get a human baby right from an ape, evolution takes time. 2) The highlighted next line is: Less Body Hair Than Apes: They try to say there is no evidence to support the idea. Wrong. There is evidence that animals that evolve into the water can lose their hair. And to say it is impossible for apes is ridiculous. They cannot say there is NO evidence to help support this idea, just that it is weak so far. And I know some pretty hairy bodied humans that look like apes. 3) The next highlighted line is: Habitual Bipedalism (two-leggedness): They try to say that it is impossible for apes to ever walk like a human. News flash apes do walk bipedaly sometimes, not not as often as us. Watch one in a zoo...apes will go along on two then rotate on four. There was a famous ape called Oliver that was habitually bipedal, and also in recent news an ape had surgery for an illness and from then on only walked bipedal (check out our NEWS section). They think maybe he suffered a little brain damage from the operation but seems back to normal except that he walks like a human all the time now. Maybe animals have to have braindamage to be more like man. Smoke that one Creation Scientists. 4) The next highlighted line is: Tears: They try to say that only humans can cry. They never met Koko then, a gorilla that can understand the spoken English language fluently and speaks in fluent sign language, she laughs, cries (with TEARS) and shows every emotion we do. Other animals have been known to cry, just not able to weep. 5) Conclusion: If they are going to try to disprove such a weak theory the least they could do is study about science first. Oh that is right, Creationists don't believe in Real Science. I, for one think it is a cool idea that I never thought of before, but I would think maybe leaning toward finding out how elephants lost their hair while evolving from Mammoths would be closer...perhaps we lost the hair through heat, since hair is usually associated with colder temperatures (but not in all cases). The DNA evidence is still in that we are 99.4% ape, but nothing will ever be enough evidence for Creationists. |
| Creationists say Evolution is false / Real Science says it is proven. |
| Creation science says the Earth does not move / Real science says the Earth does move. |
| Earth spins |
| Earth goes around Sun |
| Great reference science site: click here |
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