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LOS ANGELES TIMES, September 23, 2001

Indonesian Extremist Backs Terror

Southeast Asia: The leader of the Laskar Jihad approves of the attacks on the U.S. but doesn't respect Bin Laden.

By RICHARD C. PADDOCK, Times Staff Writer

MATARAM, Indonesia -- Ja'far Umar Thalib is the kind of extremist Muslim that Americans fear most.

The 39-year-old Indonesian fought in Afghanistan in the 1980s along with Osama bin Laden. He trained at a radical Islamic school in Pakistan. And he supports acts of terrorism against "strategic facilities," including the World Trade Center in New York.

Today, Ja'far heads his own armed Islamic group in Indonesia and has thousands of dedicated warriors at his command. If the United States strikes Afghanistan, he says, he and his followers are prepared to retaliate against U.S. targets and civilians in Indonesia.

Ja'far's organization is the Laskar Jihad, or "the Militia of the Holy War." Robert Gelbard, the U.S. ambassador to Indonesia, calls the group "quite dangerous." The ambassador said he has repeatedly asked the Indonesian government to curb the organization's activities, but so far the authorities have done little.

Western intelligence experts say Laskar Jihad is linked to Bin Laden's global terrorist network, but Ja'far said his group has never had ties to the fugitive Saudi millionaire.

In a two-hour interview with The Times, Ja'far outlined his thoughts on war and religion, providing an insight into how some Islamic extremists view the world after the Sept. 11 terror attacks in the United States.

He criticized Bin Laden for not being a good Muslim and protested his own detention in May for the stoning death of a follower who committed adultery. He warned that "the situation of war is being created by America itself," but said he believes that Washington is not so "stupid" as to invade Afghanistan.

"The attack on New York and the Pentagon should be an important lesson for America to change its attitude of hostility toward Muslims," Ja'far said.

Ja'far, who has a wispy 4-inch beard and wears the long white robe typical of Laskar Jihad warriors, seldom talks with the Western press. But he was friendly and relaxed as he spoke Friday surrounded by security guards at a restaurant in Mataram, the capital of the island of Lombok.

Indonesia has experienced a flowering of Islamic fundamentalism since 1998, when President Suharto, the country's longtime military dictator, was forced to step down and the country's strict controls on religious activity were lifted. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population of any country in the world.

Ja'far said Laskar Jihad was formed in April 2000 to defend Muslims in Indonesia's remote Molucca Islands in a religious war against Christians. The conflict has claimed at least 5,000 lives and left half a million people homeless.

In the past 18 months, Laskar Jihad has sent thousands of fighters to the region, tipping the balance in the Muslims' favor. Ja'far said Laskar Jihad now has a force of 3,000 men there.

If the United States launches an assault on Afghanistan, Laskar Jihad will issue a warning to the Indonesian government and the United States that Americans must leave the country or face retaliation, he said.

"If there is no response from the United States [to the warning], we will declare war on all U.S. facilities in Indonesia," he said.

Ja'far said he met Bin Laden in 1987 in Peshawar, Pakistan, after both had traveled there to help Islamic rebels in neighboring Afghanistan fight invading Soviet troops.

At the time, Bin Laden did not have the long beard that connotes devotion to Islam. "He still had the jet-set look," Ja'far said, noting Bin Laden's family wealth.

"When I met him, he told me he wanted to join the moujahedeen," Ja'far recalled. "I felt that he was actually empty. He didn't have any knowledge about religion, but he had a lot of money."

Bin Laden fell under the influence of a "bad sect" that believes in using suicide bombers and opposing legitimate Islamic governments, Ja'far said.

Two months ago, Ja'far said, Bin Laden sent an emissary to the Moluccas to invite the Laskar Jihad to join his terrorist network. Ja'far said he refused.

"Today is just like old times," Ja'far said. "I don't respect him at all."

Ja'far said it is possible Bin Laden was behind the attacks on New York and the Pentagon because they required the kind of financial backing he could have provided.

He said it also is possible that Bin Laden is operating in Indonesia, as Western authorities contend. "I think that's true," Ja'far said.

The deadly bombings of churches in 18 cities last Christmas Eve have sometimes been blamed on Laskar Jihad. Ja'far denied responsibility for the attacks and said they could have been the work of Indonesian terrorists linked to Bin Laden.

Ja'far confirmed Western intelligence suspicions that his group has ties to the Malaysian Moujahedeen Group, sometimes known as KMM Jihad, an alleged terrorist group in neighboring Malaysia.

But he denied allegations that Laskar Jihad has links with any terrorist organization in the Philippines, such as the Abu Sayyaf gang that has kidnapped dozens of people for ransom, including several Americans.

He also denied charges that Afghan moujahedeen have joined the Laskar Jihad forces in the Moluccas, although Christian fighters there say they have taken Afghan identity papers from the bodies of some foes.

Ja'far has attempted to enforce Sharia, or Islamic law, in the Moluccas even though it is against Indonesian law. He said he sat on a court that sentenced a man to death by stoning for adultery and then made sure the sentence was carried out properly.

He was arrested in May and spent 11 days in jail before protests by his followers prompted the authorities to release him. To Ambassador Gelbard, the case demonstrates the inability of the Indonesian justice system to curb growing Islamic extremism.

Ja'far said he opposes the use of suicide bombers but believes the attack on America was justified because of what he calls Washington's "double standard" of protecting Jews in Israel while ignoring the interests of Muslims around the world.

The World Trade Center was an appropriate target, he said, because of its importance to the U.S. economy.

In Washington, the Council on American-Islamic Relations estimates that as many as 800 victims of the New York attack were Muslims from countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and Turkey. That would make it one of the worst single terrorist attacks on Muslims ever.

But the death toll does not inspire outrage from Ja'far because these Muslims did not die on their own soil.

"The Muslim victims are like a side effect," he said.

"What is more important is that the attack countered the superiority of America in front of the Islamic world. We pray for our Muslim brothers who were killed in the attack and hope that God will accept them well and forgive their sins."


Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times

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