BECOMING A WEBHEAD

TESOL EVONLINE 2004

January 26 - March 6

Getting Started

Syllabus Participants
Week 1 Week 2 Week 3
Week 4 Week 5 Week 6

Chat Sessions

Glossary

Readings

How to

Hints


Home Page

Site Index

Weekly Threads


Pre-session Threads

These are some of the interesting topics that have been discussed so far.

Level of participation The student perpective  

   Passwording documents

Verbal/Non-Verbal Communication

Lurking

Audioconferencing tools

   Blogging 

Teachers' attitude to ICTs

OLE's About Chat Food and recipes Live Events
Virtual Language Teacher,
 Bots, etc
Humor Andragogy Troubleshooting

Level of participation (off list)

 

Since I have a huge workload I would like to check in advance how much time I should be prepared to invest per week if I participate (Eva Wilden, 9jan04).

Your question about investment of time for our workshop participants is interesting because there is no simple answer, so it is hard to make it a short one. Usually in this kind of free workshop, we do have many lurkers who may read along but stay silent most of the time, we also meet people who invest a lot of time and energy to learn new tools and contribute actively several times a week,others might just send an intro, and a few comments, and maybe show up for an occasional or planned chat session. . . it is a personal choice, there are no obligations of a full engagement, but if you are short of time, you could just read what you want, ask questions or reply where you have something to conrtibute and please for the first week, send us a few lines about yourself, your picture - and your own expectations for the workshop. (Susanne, 9jan04).

I think that Sus message is a great explanation of what it involves to participate in our session and I have very little to add to it. I would only like to encourage you to register for the session and give it a try. We are all very busy people too, but we have found out that the time we invest in our community is really worthwhile for our professional development while at the same time it is a social experience in which we have made friends and  we have grown as human beings part of an intercultural world. (Dafne, 9jan04).

 

I absolutely second Sus's words. There are no recipes for this online world and there are no measures or portions, as happens in a recipe! In short, you can dedicate as many or as few hours per week as your availability allows. Guessing from your Web page (which I just browsed!), I dare say that you will get as addicted (in a very healthy way!) to these environments, due to 'fascination', as we have been for two years now and will find yourself more involved than you'd expected, and, as if by magic, finding time for it! (Teresa, 9jan04).

 

The 'student' perspective

 

I'm especially looking forward to experiencing an online workshop as a student, since I have mainly experiences on the 'other'side, from the teacher or researcher perspective. But I strongly believe that it's hard to be a good online teacher without having been an online learner oneself at some point. (Eva W., 9jan04).

 

Hi Eva,
I was interested in your comment about getting involved on-line in the student role, instead of only as a researcher.
As a student of an on-line TESOL program (Anaheim University) for almost three years, I've had invaluable experiences which could only be understood experiencially. When we engage in studies on line, I really feel more like an anthropologist than a student at times, because we are participant -observers, right on the front line of an intercultural experience. My professors have really emphasized a reflective component to our teacher training. I highly recommend that you keep a learner diary! [see blogging] I wish I'd done so from day one, because there were many things which happened in a mysterious way as far as miscommunications and conflict resolutions, cross-cultural signals read in prismatic ways by all the various learners (and profs). It's not like anything I've ever experienced in human relations. The one thing I miss when on line is all the paralingual kinds of communications, like smiles and gestures,touch or body language. I think we do so much of our communication non-verbally that something is still missing for me on line. (I'm talking about text here, and am really excited about the possibilities for voice and video use). As a student, I also became acutely aware of the differences in learning styles amongst classmates. We had to do a lot of collaborative work and so many students seemed to be "intrapersonal, analytical" learners. (I'm pretty "interpersonal,concrete, kinaesthetic"). When barriers to communication are transcended, the on-line study experience can be wonderful. This is just some food for thought about the human end of things, not just the technical. (Sorry to be so long-winded!). Cheers, Leah A. Sullivan (15jan04).

 

Dear Leah,
your experiental reflections on being an online learner are important. I agree with you in the anthropologist view of being a participant observer. I have come to understand how differently we may interpretate the written words and repsond to what is expcted or not.
In a flash, I come to think if this could be the drive for many who are reading along but not openly participating; it is interesting to follow the development of dialogues over time, but  from a cautios distance, not getting too personally involved? I can think of many motives for just lurking : lack of time, lack of actual interest or experience in the topic, or fear of getting misunderstood. But often I think that it is only natural to have this position as observer more than contributor. However, in an online course situation, this attitude of silent mob does not work. So what are useful strategies to get people more actively participating in the open?
Just think of this actual workshop that has not even srtarted officially; for some who may have planned to join us actively when it begins, it might even be pretty surprising to receive all these messages so early. If you, as a reader, feel you're among those who still prefer lurking for a while, do not worry, this is a train that stops at all stations - there will be plenty of room for everyone to join the conversation anytime during our official six weeks, and beyond, as another Webhead in Action :-). Some time ago, I wrote a passage about this view that I consider as cyber-anthropology http://home19.inet.tele.dk/susnyrop/anthro.html
Sus (15jan04).

 

I'm glad you both commented on the students perspective, because it is fundamental for us teachers not to lose track of it. It is commonly said that we (humans) have a short memory, contrary to elephants who never forget!!!, so we may be tend to be intolerant and sometimes even unfair with our students by easily forgetting their perspective.
My two-year very active online experience with the Webheads in Action has been amazingly helpful in this sense (and many others, of course). Being a teacher-student in this virtual world, having to fend for ourselves (while exploring these online communication tools in our case) through trial and error, asking for help at a distance (though there are no distances in cyberspace - everything is just a mouse click away!) and getting that help in seconds (through chat) or in a matter of minutes (through email), etc, lets us experience firsthand the type of problem our students may face, helps us create a personal troubleshooting database, but above all, gives us the know-how and flexibility (mental elasticity, as I like to call it!!) to facilitate their task and improvise whenever necessary.
Leah, I hope you will [notice] a big difference when we get to voice and image, especially voice. We have used image on many occasions, but voice more often. I find it says a lot about people. I used to get goosebumps the first few times we used it from the excitement, and it was curious to find out if the voice corresponded to the overall image I had created of that colleague.
BTW, I love your idea of a learner diary! On the other hand, you are absolutely right about the "human end of things, not just the technical".  It's John Naisbitt's concept of "high tech/hogh touch" - "in a world of technology, people long for personal, human contact", isn't it? I know I do. It has been always the most important element for me in the VW.
Tere (15jan04)

You have brought up a very interesting and crucial issue for the learning process, which in fact are two related topics, having different perspectives, and reflection. When I decided, in 2001, to get involved in online teaching and learning, my first thought, as a neophyte in the field, was to attend an online course to see what it was like. I registered in the first course I thought could be of help taking in consideration the institution offering it. The content and activities were very interesting, however….I was not happy with the way it was organized and delivered. At first, I was disappointed, but I decided to look at it as a learning experience to find out what I liked and did not like of an online course from my perspective, after many years of f2f teaching, of what I consider should be a learning experience. Then, in January 2002, I registered in the EVOnline Webheads session, and after my previous experience I said to myself, “this is it”. This is the way to conduct online teaching. What was the difference? Well, reflection in and on the action, using Schön’s words.
All teachers are potential action researchers, and as so, we should be long-life learners. We put ideas into practice, deal with the problems faced while implementing them, using our background knowledge (reflecting in the action), and then, “post-facto”, we evaluate the experience (reflecting on the action) these steps are repeated over and over, and that’s how we construct our knowledge (put into simple words). In Webheads, I found this kind of learning, exploring tools with other colleagues, getting feedback, being scaffolded at every step, making mistakes and learning from them, sharing what we know and don’t know, asking for help, giving help. In short, we do not stop being learners.
The idea of the field notebook is a great one. As a f2f teacher, I always make notes after a class about the aspects I consider worth remembering, and for my doctoral research I did the same, writing details that otherwise I would not have remembered when carrying out the analysis. Daf (15jan04).

 

Absolutelly agree with you. Students' feedback is extremelly important. You cannot teach by looking learning only through teachers' eyes. On the other hand you need always the experience of other teachers. That is one thing I have learnt thanks to WIA, the possibility to listen to the more experienced ones in order to learn from them and try to remember that feeling when teaching. That is why I set up my Blog on teaching Experiences, and that is why we also encourage all of you to write everything you feel during and after this session. It is also a great practice to enhance the ablity of writing and expressing feeling in the L2, a rather difficult thing to achive. To finish just to quote the sentence that I always have present on my homepage: "Knowledge is Experience" by Larry Prusak. Best regards, María Jordano (15jan04).

 

Passwording Documents

 

Irshat mentioned learning "how to password separate documents without having to deal with the html coding itself, which is something I'm interested in. Do you have to have to know about CGI (which I don't)? Can you explain a little more about how it's done.(Chris J., 12jan04).

I simply passworded each document (i did it in Word, Excel, and Pdf) using security options in the programs themselves. For instance, in Word 2000 it's under Tools after you click Save as. As far as i remember it's something like that too in Excel and in Pdf maker. I don't think Acrobate Reader has this option. I don't have these programs on my computer right now to tell you for sure. But these programs do allow locking documents with a password.Then i upload the document on the server with the name of a particular student. When the student clicks his/her name as it appears on the webpage, the browser tries to bring up the document but it doesn't open it until the user provides the correct password, which is automatically prompted by the program that tries to open it. This way i could avoid CGI scripts. But this trick does have its own downsides.It is a little bit too time-consuming to password each document on your own instead of having the CGI script do it. Besides everytime i wanted to make tiny updates in the document, I had to type in the student's and my own (to be able to make changes) passwords. (Irshat M., 12jan04).

 

Irshat,that was a good explanation  on how to password protect documents!I wanted to try it myself,  so I created a how-to page and saved it with the following protection:
open document: open
edit document: edit
Now I'm uploading it to our Files section (in Yahoo groups) and it would be fun if others tried to download it from there,opened and edited it, added a comment, like Irshat was here!or even better, more explanations on the usage of document protection, and finally upload it to the relevant folder in the files folder again.
Do not forget to tell us your changes :-)
yours, Sus 
The mentioned file is now uploaded into the folder called HelpfulHints where I think we could save this kind of user produced descriptions on how procedures were completed. I'm eager to learn if any of you managed to open and edit that file :-)
(Sus Nyrop, 13jan04).

Regarding the password protection for the net, I've found  really interesting to read about what Irshat did with his students.I also work with Dreamweaver, and  I have been trying for some time to create a section in my site where I could publish my students' marks, but obviously password protected. As i'm a teacher of English and don't know much about programming, I was quite scared of cgi usage, but it has proved to be far easier than I expected. Now I'm using a cgi script called Gradeorama which is really useful, developed by Kristina L. Pfaff- Harris. I suppose you know her site Scripts for Educators but just in case here is the link  http://www.tesol.net/scripts/ . Apart form that I found a really simple script to protect sections of a website with password. The key was that the password lead you to an html document called password.html. That is to say, if your password was 1234, the html document you will be redirected to is called 1234.html.
(Sara Martin, 13jan04).

 

Verbal vs Non-Verbal Communication

I'd like to add my thoughts to your comments, Leah.  Communication by keyboard only, at first appears to neglect the non=verbal element of communication. Try this:  Place a mirror somewhere behind where your screen and keyboard are, so that you are in full view whenever you are communicating over the net.  Then become aware of yourself in that mirror. I think that you will find that much of your non-verbal communication is still there, it is just not as apparent to the "listener" on the other end (...) Facial _expression also tell us a great deal on how we receive communication.  They are so innate in communication, that by being aware of them, even during a chat will help us keep track of how we receive the emotional part of a message.
To further add to this broadening of the senses, consider the added element of video. Still in it's infant stages in internet communication, it's jerkiness, stop and start-ness, add another dimension to our efforts to communicate (...) Having video is still different than having a mirror to accurately reflect your intended body movements. Video, usually allows us to see ourselves in the same little jerky screen as the other participants. If you have the mirror and the video, place the mirror in a side position to get a new view of the way we hold ourselves when we communicate.
I could also add sound to mix here. There are ways to alter the way we sound via the internet, although we do not use them.  What we do use, is what I like to think of as absence of sound.  When one is on the telephone, does that mean that we are not communicating non-verbally.  I don't think so.  See if you don't nod your head affirmatively before replying "yes" in many communications via telephone or even VOIP.  I think you will find that not only do you project non-verbally but that you receive non-verbally.  I believe that we summon up an image of the person talking to us and then put motions in that image to reflect what we think they are communicating.  We don't often notice it because we are not used to tuning in on the non-verbal.  Even as you read my message, you are likely to put a body and a body image with my message. You may even go so far as to recall what my work space looks like.
At first glance, we deny that print has a non-verbal side or that the oral message has a non- verbal side.  But I think that that is not true.  Humans have an ability to pick up on the non- verbal even when the video is missing. It may not be as accurate as if we could actually see the speaker, but we make some astounding assumptions never-the-less and just like in f2f communication often check them out via our print or conversation.
Elderbob (15jan04).

 

Dear Leah an all the others who replied to the message on being an online student and absence/presence of non-linguistic signs,
I found all your reflections an remarks very interesting, it'll give me something to think about this weekend! :-) Thanks, Leah, for that tip about keeping a learner diary, I started one right away.
On absence/presence of non-linguistic signs: As I said I don't have much experience in text-based online learning (that's why I still feel a little overwhelmed by all these mails, I still need time to adjust my reading strategies :-) but I do have some experience in learning in audio-conferences. And although there are hardly any visual signs there (without a webcam) I think one gets a lot of non- and paralinguistic info just through hearing the others' voices. It's just as on the phone (as Elderbob remarked), e.g. throug dialect you get some regional flavour, you hear background noises, you may hear what mood the other is in etc. Through all this info I often have the feeling to know someone although I've never met him/her in person.
And this brings met to another aspect of absence/presence: Do 'feel' the the other person bodily presence? How do you perceive their presence? How do you percieve them as a person? They aren't just the words you read or hear. As Elderbob pointed out, I think you create an image of a person by combining all the info you have (e.g. about Elderbob's untidy workspace ;-) and this may get more and more precise the more you read/hear from that person.
These are just my thought on this rainy friday morning... I hope there's some sunshine wherever you are! :-)   (Eva, 16Jan04)

 

While reading Eva's message regarding how we can feel the presence of our cyberspace interlocutors, I remembered the times I have had the opportunity to meet some of my webheads colleagues f2f. After our interaction through e-mail, and most important through our informal Sunday chat meetings at Tapped In, splashed with voice at YM, Alado, etc., and webcams, the moment I have met a webhead, I have had the feeling of seing a friend I had not seen for a long time and with whom I had things to talk about, personally and professionally.
Personally, I believe that our informal chats at TI (text), and those we frequently hold at different platforms, where we work or simply chit-chat have greatly contributed to the bond many of the webheads have created, more than our e-mail exchanges on the list.I have kept some moments of my meetings with webheads on these Web pages:
When Maria came to Valencia
http://dafnegon.tripod.com/meetwia/dafmaria.htm  
When I went to Cordoba and visited Maria
http://dygonza.bravepages.com/wia/cordoba1.htm  
When I met Arnold in Holland:
http://www.oocities.org/dafne_gonzalez/holland/daf-arnold.html  
In 2002 I met many webheads at the TESOL Convention in Salt Lake City:
(sorry the pics are distorted by the album generator application I
used -need to change them to another page when I have time )
http://www.oocities.org/dafne_gonzalez/tesol2002pics/index.html
( Daf, 16Jan04).

 

Elderbob, your email about using the video and mirror, and seeing our own self-image, as well as summoning up an image of other on-line recipients was fascinating! Is this based on Laban movement, or Erving Goffman's interactional analysis or some kind of psychology? That I've got to print out, too, and put on the bulletin board over the computer...and try the steps. Actually, I haven't gotten as far with technical things, yet, to use video on line or
even upload photos. I've been wondering about the mind-body connection in this email interlink process, but until I read your advice, I couldn't figure out what was missing. Thanks! If you want to say more about it, or recommend some reading, I'd be most grateful. (By the way, while reading your email, I DID imagine the pajamas...and had you sitting in a garage studio, drinking coffee. I'm sitting in a slightly drafty apartment,yet warmed up by a gas fan heater and blanket. Just for fun, I'd been thinking about sending this email with the electric blanket on my cold feet, but I got started typing and forgot to turn it on! The environment DOES make a difference, too, doesn't it. Just like a realclassroom!) (Leah 18jan04).

 

Lurking

 

. . . one remark on the discussion on silent lurkers: Gilly Salmon writes in her book that there's just one way to create a successful text-based learning experience: reply, reply, reply. I take this as a starting point for adjusting to the flood of  - very interesting and informative - webhead-emails.  (Eva, 16Jan04)

Audioconferencing tools

I'm preparing my dissertation project in which I would like to use an audiconferencing tool. At the moment I'm still looking for an appropriate tool which (a) suits my needs and (b) doesn't cost too much, preferably nothing. If you know of any such tool please let me know, I'd be very greatful! :-) Right now I'm especially curious about Lyceum which has been developed by the Open University. Is there anyone who has got any experiences with it? I know these tools already: Interwise, Centra, Sametime, Netmeeting.
And I'm looking forward to learning more about the tools which will be presented in the workshop.  (Eva, 17Jan04).

 

We frequently use Yahoo Messenger as an audioconferencing tool and we have also used Wimba (www.wimba.com).
Take a look at
http://www.malhatlantica.pt/teresadeca/webheads/sessions/4apr03-fletras.htm
to see a report on my first audioconference with Webheads in Action.
Later that month I ventured into my second audioconference (no report: shame on me!) at the Portuguese Teachers of English annual Conference. We used only Yahoo Messenger. Webheads in different parts of the world interacted with my audience. At my end there was a video projector showing the text interaction, and we had speakers and a mic that was used by anyone in the audience that wanted to ask questions. Webheads answered from the other end. Antonia Melvin, a BaW participant, was in the audience and asked a couple of questions.
For the past year or so, we have also been using platforms that give us other possibilities besides text and audio simultaneously: the Learning Times Meeting Room and the Alado.net Webheads Room, which are vClasses (a virtual classroom), with a whiteboard to project pages, show pics and even draw. It's coooool!
We hope to have the chance to try out a very similar platform in a near future.
BTW, we try to work only with free software.  (Teresa, 17Jan04).

 

Blogging

I would like to learn about the different tools I can use to set up language courses.
(Jacira, 17jan04).

 

Since you are involved with Primary Schools, let me show you a blog I'm trying
to develop with my 5th grade students, 1st year EFLers.
http://www.malhatlantica.pt/teresadeca/school/fun-with-english5.htm
They are enjoying it. The problem is that most of them do not have Internet at home. Besides, they cannot send email from school. So, what I'm trying out this coming week is to give a photocopy of an email template to those interested in sending a message where they will write their message. They will hand it back to me and I will post their text and my reply. All of them have visited the page by now in class with me, so they should be able to make a short comment. (Tere, 17jan04).
Teresa
I loved your Blog. I tried using Blogs with my low level university learners last year, but I didn't manage it that well and it was all a bit of a flop, so it was good to see one that is so successful. I had my learners all making one each, so you gave me the idea of maybe having one, or at least having them work in groups. I've joined the Blog session too, so hope to learn more there.
Janina (17jan04).

Janina, since you mentioned in another message your interest in blogs, I want to call your attention to a chat session we will have with Barbara Dieu (Bee), in week 3, where she will share her successful experiences using blogs in her EFL classes : http://www.oocities.org/bawebhead/chatsessions.html#W3
(Daf 17jan04).

 

Dear Janina,
Thank you! I've really been enjoying the blog, above all, trying to get the kidsto participate. One thing a few of them noticed and especially liked was the fact that I answer all their messages. I think they feel that I pay attention to them and probably feel cared for and important for having their work on theInternet, as they say! :-)
I think it was Barbara/Bee who commented a few days ago that she had decided to stay in secondary education "because I can better follow and understand the process of learning, which fascinates me. Being in contact with young people is also very stimulating as it challenges you to reformulate your ideas and makes you more open to change and creativity" (8Jan04). I feel the same.
And when I compare this level and a little older with my two-year experience in higher ed., I also feel that kids in these lower levels are more enthusiastic and open to change! It's motivating to try things out with them. They seem to enjoy everything!
Best of luck with your blog! (Tere 17jan04).

 

I'm sure that web-site building and blogging as you have described, Teresa, are the direction in which to go... 
(Antonia,17jan04)

I'll be sure to look out for Bee's session, Dafne.
Anyway, after reading the pre-session descriptions, in an act of faith, I actually increased the amount of time I am planning to spend on Blogging in my courses from April. So week 3 will be an important one for me! And it was good to see your beautiful Blog, Teresa.
(Janina, 18jan04).

 

Teresa I like your Fun with english Blog
(Jacira 18jan04).

 

First, thanks to Sus for the link to your website.I've decided to practice what I preach and keep my own learner diary. I realize that I've just jumped from one safe learning envioronment on the web to this new one, where the world seems different! I remember what one of my photographer friends said when I first came to Japan, that I should take
notes, make photos, write poems, catch those first impressions while I have the chance, because they will never be 'first impressions' again. I've been working on an analysis of classroom observation data, recently, and I wish I'd noted more first impressions. When I
brought the camera in, I got lazy in some sessions, and the quality of fieldnotes seemed so much more sensitive than the camera. I think everyone should keep journals for all kinds of situations, educational or otherwise.I like the diary and photos on your web site, too! How does it feel to post journals on the web, in a public atmosphere?
(Leah 18jan04).

 

I've just created my first "Blog," which is designed to help me to reflect on my experiences in the BaW Workshop.http://dabmar40.blogspot.com/
I used the link on blogs that I had previously posted to the "Links" on our BaW website. It was really easy. Give it a try!
Peace,
(David B. 19jan04)
Hi David,
Nice to see that you will start writing reflections about our Baw session. I usually ask my students, f2f and online, to write reflections about their learning process and the course in general, at the end this a means to evaluate students' performance as well as to assess the instructor's pedagogical practices and the course (objectives, activities, materials, etc.). This is a way to give voice to students in the learning and teaching process. I believe that when students are involved in this process they become more autonomous and responsible for their learning.
Btw, There is a folder in the LINKS section of our YG for participants to post their new blogs. It would be nice if you inaugurated that space :-)
Cheers,
Daf (19jan04).

 

I have just re-started my blog. Well, actually, I started it many months ago, and then never went back to it. But after David's kick- off, I decided to follow his lead in the blogmania.
Take a look: http://dafraco.blogspot.com/  (Daf, 20Jan04).

ON BLOGGING
I have just opened my personal blogger which I will try to keep updated as often as possible :-)
http://beewebhead.blogspot.com
I would also like to invite you to visit a blog of an online colleague. It may seem a bit far-fetched to some and it is not related to EFL,  but I feel it has a lot to do with us, educators. I would definitely appreciate comments and creative solutions for institutional resistance, for instance.
http://www.nataliedarbeloff.com/bloggersparliament.html
(Barbara/Bee, 20Jan04)

 

Hello Bee, Daf & David,
congrats with your new blogs, I hope we will have some useful fun exploring this easy access to putting up content online, and follow up on it in the workshop week 3 (or 4?)
My own blog has been in use on and off since August 2002 and I wish I had time to learn the code so I could find out how to create a more searchable archive of past entries. It is at: www.xanga.com/susnyrop and I've mostly used it as a repository for commented favorite URLs and occasional sharing my thoughts and some of the better messages I've posted in discussions and workshops.
Leah, you asked how it feels like to post personal thoughts in blog format; i would say, I need to decide for myself, if a note would have any relevance for anyone else than my little narrow self; if not , then why post it anywhere else than on my own harddisk? Besides, Xanga offers the option to write notes that are not made public, this means one could eventually store private messages for oneself to get back to, from anywhere, without having to post in public. I beleive that the bad reputation that blogs have in some people's eyes, should be seen as a result of everyone having access to post anything, uncritically and unedited, with no censoring. But hey, this is how we like the chaotic Internet anarchy to be, or? Readers need to think for themselves and with a little routine I think we can often judge by reading a few lines, if a blog could be some source of interest and inspiration , something to get back to, or just to be ignored.
Daf asks: "I would like visitors to send comments, but so far I have not been able to see how it can be done :-("
As I see it, the Blogspot free version does not allow for guest book and comments, Xanga does. Besides, Xanga users can also join from the Mac world, which was my preferred system back then. WE can try to get into comparative features, problems and advantages of blog tools. Still, there are the Wikis to be considered, too :-).
Sus (20jan04).

 

Sus, thanks for your thoughts on the public/private aspects of publishing blogs. This is a whole new world for me and my mind is spinning with the possibilies. It's really tough deciding what may be of value to others, or not. Keeping the audience in mind is a good rule of thumb for any writing, I suppose. Except in experiential learning, and in sharing with others in a collaborative type of learning, the lines of public/private and process/product, or even participator/observer, are so easily blurred.
Just my two cents for today.
(Leah Sullivan, 21Jan04).

 

By the way, I have started meta-blogging...preparing for the chat in week 4.  You can follow my attempt at it here:  http://beewebhead.blogspot.com
I have also added a comment line and I encourage you to leave your 0,02 cents in there.
(Bee, 22jan04).

top

Teachers' attitude to ICTs

 

Jacira, in Spain and in other countries as well, primary and high shool teachers seem
reluctant to start using computers with their students. How is it in New Zealand?
(Dafne 17jan04).

In New Zealand the ministry of Education seems to put a lot of money into IT in schools. Many schools cluster together and employ an ICT teacher to upgrade the staff in first instance who can then take their knowledge back to class. The process is slow. I often wonder if the problem lies in the fact that teaching with computers requires quite a change in teacher attitude towards teaching and learning. Learning how to use a computer is time consuming and teachers time is already very precious. But there is a definite push from higher up to get more teachers onto the bandwagon.
(Jacira 18jan04).

 

In Myanmar, we can see a dramatic changes in the attitudes of teachers towards ICT. Thanks to DynEd programs, most teachers begin to accept that computer can teach. But they don't recognize the role of a teacher in teaching with ICT. They just talk about that ICT can't do anything. We need more teachers who can handle ICT in teaching. What I'm seeing is more and more teachers are using PowerPoint. Teaching a language with Hot Potato becomes an interesting topic in conferences. But what I bother is internet hasn't become a tool in teaching. Many senior teachers are considering to set up government- owned intranet in which they can hold even video conferencing. Using Internet is cheaper than setting up own system which can be a never-ending process. We have now computers in schools but how long can we wait for the moment when computers become a tool rather than a show piece? (Kyi, 19jan04).

 

Dear Kyi,
What you describe in your message is similar to what is happening in many countries around the world. Computers are still seen as a means to get information or to run software packages with pre-determined content, but the use of computers for communicating with real audiences and carrying out meaningful collaborative tasks is still far from being the norm.
Daf (19jan04).

 

Yes, this is the case at the university I teach at here in Japan even when the teacher wants to use computers for more collaborative tasks. We have a protected system and it doesn't allow us to download much content from the Web because there's a download restriction on file size. We don't have RealPlayer because students might use it for "non-academic purposes". We can't use Yahoo Messenger because students might "abuse its use". What does this all mean? Who knows!
I have explained this to teachers from outside Japan before and they usually say "Why don't you explain that you can do XYZ... academic benefits etc etc?". Yes, I've done and continue to do this in various different ways, propose projects, show cases of rival unis using their computers in this way, and so on, but the administration just repeats the "non- academic/abuse" arguments without really considering my arguments or reading my reports or accessing the links I've provided. Another common response from  teachers outside Japan  is "Why don't you download anyway?". Well (1) I can't because the system has some kind of firewall/system to stop this happening (2) If I could, it would constitute hacking.
I teach an Internet English course. I was hired expressly to teach it and the first time I went to the university to check out the system etc after I'd written my course outlines, they were surprised and rather put out that I wanted to use a computer room(!?). It was a major victory that I was finally allowed to and came as a surprise to some of the tenured teachers. This is despite us having several beautiful well equipped computer rooms that are not used very much.
I also teach Business English at the same university and in that course I include a business email project whereby students interview international English-speaking businesspeople from around the world by email and research their companies and jobs on the Internet before making an end of semester presentation. To do that, I have to reserve a regular classroom and "illegally" use one of the unused computer rooms... Grrrrrr!
This is, by no means, the case at every university in Japan, but I expect my Japanese colleagues are rather less surprised by the restrictions I face than some of you in other countries! Hoping to explore more "legal" ways of carrying out some more collaborative projects from next semester. 
Janina (19jan04).

 

I've also read Ky's and Janina's mails regarding teachers' attitudes to ICTs, and I feel that the attitude teachers have regarding ICT is  most of the time due to the lack of real knowledge of what it's all about. At my  school we've had huge discussions regarding CMC. Teachers seem to accept wuite well the fact of Internet usage by students merely from an information search perspective (and they can only think of such information as text or sometimes image) Apart from that several tries have been made to forbid students using MSN Messenger, for example, for it is considered as something inappropriate to be used at a school (not to mention open chats). As I am Head of Studies too, and both the Headmaster and myself feel this is absolutely absurd (as absurd as it would be to forbid them using  the telephone box we have at the very same school), such attempts have been stopped and kids are allowed to use CMC tools.
So, most of my colleagues would be terrified of using chat in an EFL exchange among schools, for example, as they feel students could talk about inapprpriate stuff.
I hope this perspective wil change with time and training, and teachers will be aware of the great advantages of situations like our chat at Tapped in yesterday, perhaps held among students!!!
Sara (19jan04).

 

Dealing with tha use of computer in the classroom. Here in the South of Spain, the government has provided of computers to fifty schools (2 per each) in order to promote the use of IT amoung teachers and students. The problems is that teachers are not qualified enough and I think now, that situation is more a problem that solution. Do you have the same situation where you work? Or the introduction of computers at schools is more gradual? (María, 19Jan04).

 

I work in the south of Portugal in a small school with more or less 500 students aging 6 to 17 years old. The government have been trying to increment the use of new technologies as a new form of getting the students to saty at school, but definitely the weak link are the teachers, and I am suspect to talk on the issue, for I am responsible for the computer room, teachers use of computers and maintenance, all this and teaching english (?????).
Well, I can get kids to get interested in computer technology and I can keep the machines up to date with all new software, hardware, etc., but my fellow colleagues (???) see me as an ALIEN in their school, we have on wednesdays time for them to learn computer basics, but till now, the count is at 4 elements.
I think teachers still see this technology age an a menace, a threat to their control or whatever they think, but WHY??
I have recommended a text by Erik Davis that is called the age of the myth-information, of the book Tecnognose, to enliven their minds or it will forever silence me. I hope they will get to it. (João Fernandes, 19Jan04).

 

Well,
That too.... I am seen as maria.com  everywhere. We have a great computer lab that nobody uses but me. I have felt frustated many times but now I have decided to assume it... Getting up-to-date in these matters requires time, and that is something not all the teachers want to "waste"...
Thanks God, I know I am not the only one...  (María, 19Jan04)

 

Hello, Maria.
Here's a link to our computer resources at Cal State, Long Beach.
http://www.csulb.edu/Academics/Computing_Resources/computing_resources.html
Possibly, you'll have a chance to visit the campus if you come for TESOL in March.  (David Brown, 19Jan04).

 

Hi Sara, Kyi and Janina,
yes, I think we can find evidence of misunderstood student protection all over the world, as well as fear of breaking firewalls due to lack of knowledge on how to have several servers, keep administrative material apart from the communication ports opened for document exchanges, messaging systems and conferencing portals! As a student of Educational multimedia and communication at the Danish University of Education, some years ago I tried in vain to get access to make experiments with two way online communication tools as part of my research study efforts.
Our interference with a rigid and lazy system was like whirling up a dirty pool of  collegial un-collaboration, lack of confidence in (mature adult) students, and old confolcts between the teacher staff and the technical department who really did not want to service students at any level; we were a group who had made a project with a demo homepage, but they never let us publish on the internet!
However, I think that brave and bold change makers can make a difference. I've heard that situations like this were blowing new fire to a kind of resistance movement, so that today, three years later, everything has changed remarkably, and many classes and courses are supported by Blackboard. Still, I've attended many a workshop claiming to present computer interaction or creativity, with an audience sitting on chairs in a row, silently listening at the solo performing teachers with their one way PowerPoint slides. To me, some kind of hands-on activity would help demonstrate in practice what can be done. And, I've participated in numerous online sessions, meetings, presentations and conferences I think that the instant communication may promote a feeling of virtual presence to help a better involvement. With students as well as with teachers at all levels.
(Susanne, 19Jan04).

 

Hi again,
I cannot forget they wish to let Janina teach a topic called Internet English, and then ignore hte importance of access to a internet connected computerlab!! In my eyes, this is so confusing. Must be for reasons of choosing a popular buzz word as an eye catcher, without considering if the term used points at certain technologies used :-), And what business of tomorrow would not have computers?

Well, quite a lot has been said on teachers' attitudes towards new tecnologies and tech-savvy colleagues as well as regarding how well schools are equipped.
At my school I'm also regarded as the techie loony, but that's a minor matter. The sad part is that there are two computer rooms and three others with about three computers each, but little real educational use is given to them by my colleagues with their students. Additionally, most of the teachers on duty in those rooms know almost nothing about computers, searches, etc, to help the students with their projects.
I don't think I'm wrong if I say that in a total of about 80 teachers, only about 8 teachers use computers on a more or less regular basis. And only half of them produce custom- made materials for their students.
Since I went back to this school in 1997-98, I carried out three email exchanges with classes in the USA and Brazil, and no one ever cared about them, starting with the Principal and all the way down. BTW, I never asked for permission to do what I did. What for? I don't think they'd understand and would probably just create problems. Things ran smoothly, and the kids enjoyed themselves and learned. For some it was their first contact with the Internet ,email and another culture.
Since then I've been doing different things every year, but I have never heard a positive word, or any word, from the top, only from a few colleagues. But the students have enjoyed the activities. I have their feedback and that's enough for me.
I've also done a few brief sessions for my English group, at the insistent request of the Head of the Dept., but to no avail so far. Nobody has ever attempted a single thing! And also presentations on different topics at the Portuguese Teachers of English annual conference for some years now, and no one at school has ever shown any interest in looking at them.
My two euro cents regarding my neck of the woods are not much different from most of yours, as you can see. It's sad, isn't it?
Well, let's think positive! I truly believe that one of the very positive outcomes is that those of us who involve our students in ICTs  are making a difference. We took an early train. The others have been missing several trains for some time. Maybe sooner or later they will hop on board one of our trains and see what they've been missing, worse yet, what they have made their students miss by having 'accommodated', felt intimidated, insecure, afraid of losing power and authority in the classroom, . . . whatever. Al least they should give these tools a try, and many don't. I.M.O, that's why many of these arguments are nothing but excuses.
One last word about chat. Many people associate chat to public chat rooms, which have a very negative image, and rightly so, I think. So what we have to do is to try and convince our colleagues that the environments we use, and can take our students to, have nothing to do with the public chats. They are perfectly safe places where people have perfectly normal conversations in real time!
Positive thinking, everyone! If not, we wouldn't be where we are, right? (Teresa,19jan04).

 

Sus wrote:" I cannot forget they wish to let Janina teach a topic called Internet English, and then ignore hte importance of access to a internet connected computerlab!!"
Apparently I was expected (not by all those involved I should stress, but by the administration and some more traditional teachers) to teach History of the Internet - pretty riveting stuff. And about networks and connection-types and so on, but not how to use them. Still don't know that stuff myself ;-)
(Janina, 20Jan04).

 

What sad news about computer suites notbeing used and teachers not understanding how to use ICT in their teaching. I have a bit better news on this front. I have already mentioned that there is a big push from the government to integrate and use comps in schools and classrooms. Most Primary Schools in NZ have at least one comp per class and often more in the older classes. Admittedly many teachers do not know how to go beyond using it as a wordprocessor.
The Private School where I teach (IT/Technology) pushes teachers even further in using ICT and wants to see every teacher teaching at least one unit a year using ICT in some way. Often webquests are used, either set up by the teacher or ones found online. In the ICT/Technology department where I teach we have linked the two together. For example in the Tech room the children are making nightlights and in the comp room they follow this up by setting up a business selling the lights. The chn make up their stationary, website with order forms etc. We have set up a skills progression chart that starts in year one and moves right through to year 8. We have also set up levels for the teachers. Level 1 being the very beginner level and level 4 the advanced level. Each year teachers should aim to up themselves one level. This does not always happen however.
This year I want to work with our teacher French to set up a site for the chn to access extra work for French, extra quizzes, pronunciation excercisesetc.
However at the rural school where I also teach the chn have not been exposed to comps too much but I intend to change that a bit too this year. The willingness of the other teachers is there but there simply is not enough time in the day to learn about this new way of teaching and learning.  (Jacira, 20Jan04).

 

ON INSTITUTIONAL RESISTANCE
We apparently are all facing very similar situations - at school I have had all the problems you mentioned  but I feel somehow that there is something that is beginning to change.
a) At first, no-one even acknowledged what I was doing...now they know I love working with ICT and "here comes Bee with another crazy project" :-).
b)Three years ago no student had connection to the Internet. Now we have 8 computers in the library, a room with 17 good computers + another one for primary school, an ADSL connection everywhere.
c) Technical support was hostile at first with a feeling I was stepping into their territory. However, after explaining I would absolutely not interfere in their area but would only deal with pedagogical problems, I feel there is some respect. Although we still face problems with firewalls and proxy, impossible passwords...I can talk and express my views without being laughed at (at least not in the face..lol)
d)E-mailing is banned int he library though...but I managed to have the email and blogger site open from the restricted sites list in the computer room). The word games is also banned...so I always have to check the addresses at school beforehand and patiently explain and ask them to open BBC and  other fun activities related to language. Tappedin is now open in the teachers' room.
e)More and more teachers  ask me to help them online - this is mostly connected to search and emailing but some have assisted me in the projects...Little by little, we manage to overcome the obstacles. Not an easy task I admit. I must confess I had more people joining my projects virtually online than in my physical location (something for you Sus).
f)Teachers have asked me to give them a workhshop on the projects I have lead...   (Barbara/Bee, 20Jan04).

 

"The Impact of Online Teaching on Faculty Load"
Perhaps an article that can give us a vision of why teachers are reluctant to be involved with technologies: "The Impact of Online Teaching on Faculty Load" Computing the Ideal Class Size for Online Courses by Lawrence Tomei,Duquesne University, Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania
http://itdl.org/journal/Jan_04/article04.htm>

As read in many messages, teachers in Colombia, also, do not like to change the way there are teaching and many think that online teaching/learning consists only in uploading materials on a web page!
Best regards from Colombia
jean Michel Chaupart (20jan04).

(replying Jacira's message): How lucky to have have social and political incentive to push towards technological directed classes, we here just get the political idea which never
leaves the local department.
João (20jan04).
Maria said: "Dealing with tha use of computer in the classroom. Here in the South of Spain, the government has provided of computers to fifty schools (2 per each) in order to promote the use of IT amoung teachers and students. The problems is that teachers are not qualified enough and I think now, that situation is more a problem that solution".
But I think part of the problem is that teachers don't realise they don't need to be qualified! Some people are scared by computers (I was once), they believe they delete files by themselves, move things, are complex, and are afraid the students will know more than them. In reality it doesn't matter if the students know more about the computers, they won't know more about the subject matter (probably!). I think teachers need is a few simple training sessions led by teacher users (not IT experts), starting from basics like turning the computer on, and accessing the Internet and then showing them how to use things like Filamentality, how to search etc... I did a couple of workshops for novice teachers last year after doing the TESOL EV sessions, and demonstrated how easy things were to use and many people were amazed and went on to create their own webpages, class activities and so on.
Janina (20jan04).

I totally agree with your final words if there is no interest, motivation and hard work we will get nowhere. I have dedicated most of my free and family time to computers and I knew nothing 2 or 3 years ago, now I know know to build sites, interactive exercises and
how to fix computers when they become stuborn, for I am also quite stuborn, but always willing to learn more. Just today I was talking to one of my Post Graduate in communication Teachers and the topic e was about how information is being outsourced and it's reflexes on our daily school monetary situation, and he was quite stunned when I
told him that I have been moving from school to school every year and I have never given up fixing computers, building school websites, helping kids and having email lists that look like a 1000 page novel, but that's how I feel and how I am.
Take care João (20jan04).
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Online Learning Environments

 

Hi Jacira!
I've also have been working with Front Page and WebCT for more that three years, so, If you have doubts or want to share knowledge, cont on me!
María (17jan04).

Maria we are changing to Moodle at school and so I will have to start
learning how to use that:(
I feel quite comfortable with WebCt now
(Jacira, 18jan04).

 

 

Hello Jacira,
now that you're changing your virtual teaching environment from WebCT to Moodle, it would be an interesting case of comparison, for you to examine to what extent you feel that strategies about how to manage an online class and familiarity with tools you already know , can be transferred from one system to another.
In Webheads we have from time to time used many different tools, mutually helped peers overcome obstacles, solve technical problems if posssible, and also discussed aspects like functionality, user friendliness and learnability; and when Tapped In was in a transition period of beta testing last year, there were differing opinions of how we liked it or not, but after a while these questions were pushed aside and we were able to communicate more freely again (when I say "we" here, I'm speaking broadly of the "frequent participants".
What I was thinking of here, is how the interface and structure is in frontwhen a tool is new, then the attention moves from thinking of the technology as a challenge to a more naturalist use of it as a vehicle for the ongoingactivities.
yours, Sus (18jan04).

I am experimenting with Moodle and have asked Martin Dougiamas to help me make a presentation on LearningTimes on February 24 On ToolsDay.  Failing that I hope to audio record an interview and use it in my presentation.  I am still very much in a learning mode and my area of instruction is somewhat different than many of you, but you are welcome to look at my Moodle at www.elderbob.com/Classes.  If I can answer any questions, just let me know.
(elderbob, 22Jan04).

Hi Bob,
your Moodle course example looks so neat and easy, I like the Moodle format already. Dougiamas has done a great job with this tool, I've been interested to dig deeper  into the promising Moodle world for some time but have had to postpone it.
I have not had time to go in details with your creation,  but would like to enter the class and explore more very soon. The content so far seem to be highly relevant to my direction, and to what I will  (hopefully some day) need to create for teaching teachers how to use internet.
Looking forward to your upcoming session on Tools day in Learning Times.
(Sus, 22Jan04).

About Chatt

To Janina:
If you bring your students to Tapped In, there is a protected area called the Student Center, they will need to be regietered by their teacher so there is no risk of bad manners, as a teacher could ban a student who is not behaving, as well as being able to read the chatlog. Fortunately, we cannot control what students say when they're on their own; just think of your own youth, how much did WE care about others' opinions on right and wrong; we had to learn the experiental way. Regarding the adult protective (or hypocrite) fear of inappropriate exchanges, tell students and colleagues that you will save the chatlog and possibly publish it. That might help them understand that this is not hteir playmate exchanges of insider SMS but something more serious.
We had a discussion about student interaction avoiding bad manners lastsummer in Webheads and I think our levels of tolerance for what could be said or seen,  are both emotionally and  culturally conditioned.  This could be a needed topic of communication English; what is considered as inappropriate to communicate in some cultures, might be only natural or considered as harmless or even colorful slang lingo by others. And, for students as well as teachers to know what to avoid, it would be better to know some examples instead of creating gaps between the everyday cultural exposure from the convergent media, and the narrow minded sissy teachers, slocing their eyes for real life. Popular rap texts, could be one example to study street language is used to express something heartfelt, outspoken  in a politically incorrect manner.
Just a few thoughts inspired by this discussion about resctricions and attitudes... 
(Susanne, 19Jan04).

. . . One last word about chat. Many people associate chat to public chat rooms, which have a very negative image, and rightly so, I think. So what we have to do is to try and convince our colleagues that the environments we use, and can take our students to, have nothing to do with the public chats. They are perfectly safe places where people have perfectly normal conversations in real time!  (Teresa, 19Jan04).

 

Regarding the adult protective (or hypocrite) fear of inappropriate exchanges, tell students and colleagues that you will save the chatlog and possibly publish it. That might help them understand that this is not hteir playmate exchanges of insider SMS but something more serious.
I think this is more important for colleagues than students. My experience is if we don't make lots of rules to stop inappropriate use, then learners don't want to use inappropriately anyway. Where's the fun? I think they save inappropriate behavior for the situations and/or teachers who try most to legislate against it. When I started my courses some of the other teachers were also worried about my use of a non-passworded bulletin board. They felt i should have separate passwords and usernames for everyone so I could log the "naughty" students. Well, I didn't and haven't and two years later I am yet to meet a "naughty" student.  (Janina, 20Jan04).

Hi Teresa and everyone,
I support Teresa's ideas with chat. Especially when I found out TappedIn, I was surprised to learn that it is mostly or, I wonder I can  say that, totally academic. I have been to several chat services. I felt as if I couldn't find a safter place to teach lessons.
What is worse is that most Myanmar young people are chatting with transliteration. They type in Myanmar language with Roman letters. The result is bad habits develop.
But TappedIn is a different one.  (Kyi, 20Jan04).

Hi all,
Janina (I think it was Janina!.sorry I can't locate the thread I read this afternoon), I think your idea of threatening to publish the chat room logs and email messages may have another nicer bi-product. Learner's may be more careful about their compostions and style, thinking of their work as "for publication," instead of only as casual, fast expression. Though that has it's good points, too, I can think of lots of possibilities for follow-up discourse
analysis of their own chat logs, finding threads and collocations and such. Though I'm not in a position to do any computer things in classes yet (in a language school, kindergarten and high school in Japan), it's helpful to me to read all the contributions to this thread, to learn more about the institutional and stakeholder problems in actual schools.
Sus, thanks for your thoughts on the public/private aspects of publishing blogs. This is a whole new world for me and my mind is spinning with the possibilies. It's really tough deciding what may be of value to others, or not. Keeping the audience in mind is a good rule of thumb for any writing, I suppose. Except in experiential learning, and in sharing with others in a collaborative type of learning, the lines of public/private and process/product, or even participator/observer, are so easily blurred.
Just my two cents for today.
(Leah Sullivan, 21Jan04).

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Food and Recipes

 

Hello to all,
This morning, a student at the ESL Cafe Help Center asked for a recipe to make Nin Gao Cake to celebrate the Chinese New Year. A Google search revealed this link:
http://familyfun.go.com/recipes/special/feature/famf010501_ffsweet1/famf010501_ffsweet5.html  
Happy eating!
(David, 21Jan04).

 

Hi David,
Thanks for the recipe! I love cooking and trying out new recipes from all over the world. You might like to try my online lesson on cooking spanish paella (the typical dish in Valencia, where I live)
http://www.oocities.org/dygonza/paella.html
(Daf, 21Jan04).

A paella is a great dish! hmmm...all the seafood...and some white wine... I also love fideuá...and sushis...Indian curry....pasta....feijoada and churrasco.... can't start talking about food...this is my soft (becoming way too soft for my liking) point :-)
You may want to visit the Copabacana Foodquest and open a restaurant with your students:
http://the_english_dept.tripod.com/foodquest/index.html
(Bee, 21Jan04).

 

Hi Daf,
Thanks for the Paella recipe. I forwarded it to my sister whose son-in-law is a chef.
We've eaten Paella at "Alegria," a restaurant in the center of Long Beach -- not far from the convention center. I'm sure that what they serve isn't nearly as good as yours, but they have terrific Tiramisu. Maybe you'll have a chance to try it in March. Maria said she won't be here. She'll be in Madrid for TESOL - Spain, too bad.
Peace, (David, 22Jan04).

 

Dear David,
I am flattered that you sent my humble recipe to your chef relative. In fact, it is more than a recipe, it is a lesson on how to use a recipe for language teaching. There are some Hot Potatoes exercises, notes for teachers with ideas for the classroom. It was used by a colleague with her university students in Kuwait,  the lesson plan used and one of the projects derived from the lesson are link at the bottom of the page.
(Daf, 22Jan04).

 

Hi, everyone!
Eating is part of our daily life and an essential ingredient of socializing, relating and getting to know one another. So. . . after Chinese and Spanish recipes, why not try my Portuguese 'Baked Codfish'? It's deeeelicious!
http://www.malhatlantica.pt/teresadeca/webheads/tisumcarnival2002/cod-recipe.htm
I prepared this page as part of the 2002 Tapped In Summer Carnival. It was a joint venture with Dafne and Susanne. You will find links to their recipes at the bottom of the page.
Enjoy! (Teresa, 21Jan04).

I remember it, Teresa , and all participants had a wonderful time with your cooking class at the Carnival. It was the first presentation and we all got hungry for more :-)
This year, I prepared a  "bacalhau gratinado" (codfish au gratin) for New Year's Eve and all this with excellent Portuguese Dão wine. It was excellent and I must repeat the dish again.I would like to have a good recipe for Bacalhau Espiritual - some people have told me it's worth trying. Do you happen to have a good one?
(Bee, 21Jan04).

Dear Teresa,
Thanks a lot for your cod-recipe. I'm sure you have sent this recipe to the right person because I'm very much interested in food <all kinds of food>. My sister usually took me to the market, whenever I was in my home town, for I can generate a great number of excellent ideas to have a decent meal. I can promise I'll try this cod without fail.
regards,
(Kyi Shwin, 22Jan04).

Dear Teresa and all,
As I have said, I'm very much interested in food, I would like to particpate in this discussion. I hope most of you <excluding Sus> will not know so much about Myanmar. But I would like to recommend a Myanmar noodle which is called wheat noodle in coconut scented chicken soup. I like it very much. But if you're over 40 <this is Myanmar's way of thinking> have a blood pressure, pls ignore this meal however it is attractive.
Please check this link: http://www.myanmars.net/people/recipe.htm
regards, (Kyi Shwin, 22Jan04).

 

Dear Bee and Tere,
You can find tons of recipes for bacalhau espiritual, and select the one you think is the best according to your previous practical knowledge ;-)
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1&ei=UTF-8&p=Bacalhau+Espiritual
(Daf, 22Jan04).

 

Hi all hungry  web,
the events where we have used food as a topic for creating online content have been very enjoyable.  There was the Webquest Copacabana Club  in Eurolang (a group working in Tapped In, more later) where Bee put together this webquest with inspiration from participants , and used it in her classroom, And for the Webheads Carnival we made our Cooking lesson where Dafne cooked her paella, Tere her famous Bacalau cod fish, Rita in Argentina surprised us with a local dish [empanadas], and I decided to bake just plain pancakes to make something really simple as a lesson for teachers who might have accessto a kitchen with students and wanted to demonstrate how to include the internet in the classroom. These recipes were documented from our very own little kitchens, which means to us that we practiced how to work with photo and text in a homepage. They were a result of an ongoing collaboration between us and have often been used later on as examples. We even developed the term "serving virtual food" for this. And there's a world map somewhere called Cooking with Webheads. Even though this is a simple topic, we managed to find our own sophisticated ways on how to practice knowledge sharing and building, by exchanging the files, discussing  and testing them, linking toeach others' etc. This was so fun learning together.
Daf,  you're right to mention this was used for creating lessons and practice some exercises in English Language (and not a cook book online, only). I would expand this, and say that we also reached a naturalistic approach to  simulating the aesthetic feeling of hunger and satisfaction, because food is to basic in our understanding of togetherness and embodiment. Even though the food was only imagined and virtual, there is a sensual attraction to the act of eating, possibly helping overcome the feeling of distance and lack of some of our senses in the online environment (this might add to the thread earlier started by Bob, but that is going to be another story.
And to Kyi whose mail I quote at the bottom of this message: Please let us hear more about your traditional  Myanmar food :-)
Sus (22jan04).

More on food for the Chinese New year.
http://chinesefood.about.com/library/weekly/aa011902b.htm
Gung Hay Fat Choy
David (22jan04).

 

When I was a boy in Boston -- many years ago, my grandmother, who came to the U.S. as a stow-away on a boat from Ireland when she was only 16 years old, frequently cooked creamed codfish and boiled potatoes. The memory, which you've revived, led me to a Google search for bacalhau espritual, probably not related to creamed dried salt cod fish, the fish came in a
wooden box from Gorton's. The boxes made great toys for poor kids who couldn't afford better. Here are the results of my Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=bacalhau+espiritual&spell=1

Peace,
David (23jan04)

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Sus mentioned in a message a few days ago a map I created to locate the origin of our recipes. Well, I found the map, this is it...
http://www.oocities.org/dygonza/cooking.html
Click on the icons and you will get to the recipes.  (Daf, 23Jan04)

 

Live Events

 

Thanks to John [Carter]'s very informative presentation this morning from chilly New York, I've downloaded and installed Windows Media Player Series 9 to my computer. What fun!
(David, 21Jan04).

 

Dear All,
For those who did not attend the presentation at Talking Communities today, and for those who attended but did not record it. I have placed the recording of the event in the Files section, inside a folder called Events.  You will see a zip file. When you open the file, you will find two documents an htm file where you will get all the session (text, voice and ppt slides) and the sound file. In order to be able to see and hear everything, you need to have Media Player 9 installed.
The zip file takes a bit more than one minute to download (DSL connection).
We will also post it on the web page, but for now it is in the YG.
(Daf, 21Jan04).

 

Trials and tribulations of the online world

Hello to all,
I got up early this morning in hopes of observing Vance's presentation from Cairo. No luck! I did manage to install the Java Web Start at Learning Times, but I still couldn't get to the presentation. I'd like to observe his preview of the TESOL PCI tomorrow. Any suggestions?
Peace,
David (23jan04).

Hi David,

Vance's presentation was great. Very illustrative of what Webheads have been doing and how. The audience was very receptive and asked many questions. Sadly it was not recorded. I was able to take a screen shot that I will upload later. A pity you could not make it.
The direct link to the Webheads room at LT is http://www.tinyurl.com/y3eh
You will be asked to loggin and then you will get to the page where can enter the vClass.
Another way to get there, is to login to LT, look for "Members offices" (left menu), then there is a list of the offices, go to the second page and you will find the Webheads Office, click there, and that's it, because you have already installed Java, anyway you will always have to wait a bit until the room opens for you.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend because I will be flying to Holland.
Today, after the pres. at LT we moved to YM where we stay for a while using voice, text and webcams.
Vance's Yahoo ID is vance_stevens in case you need to contact him.
Good luck!
Daf (23jan04).
PS: I enjoyed the joke about English. Thanks :-)

Thanks, Daf.
Incidentally, when we did the workshop with John Carter, I used the microphone, but apparently some participants didn't have it (or didn't use it) and only used text. Do you think they were ale to hear me? Is it a good idea to combine the two?
I'm glad you liked the joke.
Peace,
David

Dear David,
Both the Learning Times vClass (virtual Class, used today during Vance's presentation in Cairo) and Talking Communities, where two days ago we attended the how to deliver PPT presentations in that particular platform, are environments where voice and text can be/are used simultaneously and in a complementary way. (BTW, I feel that I'm writing much better since you sent that 'Euro Language' joke, David!  ;-)  I really enjoyed it! And humor is such an important part of our daily lives, isn't it?)
Well, to get back to your question, we Webheads have a habit of making (funny or to the point) comments in text during presentations, and it's common to hear the presenter laugh and explain him/herself to the audience, even when the people in the audience have access to the text on a big screen. This is part of the Webhead way!
I find it extremely useful to be able to add written comments while people are speaking or to read people's comments while I'm presenting. There may even be useful tips, such as "talk louder, please" or "you're too far from the mic", whatever.
I'm almost positive that everybody at the TC presentation was able to hear you, as I was. And there's always the recording, a relevant point that seems to have been left out today. Shame on us Webheads!!! It was a great presentation with lots of involvement from the Webheads and the audience in Cairo. It would certainly be worth listening to! Can't win them all!
Yahoo Messenger (YM) is another very user-friendly environment for simultaneous text and voice, and webcaming. Mind you, it doesn't always run on wheels. The mixture of the three components may be too powerful and bandwidth-consuming and. . . a computer crash can occur. On the other hand, it's wise not to mix two different sound applications. I recall Michael Coghlan in Australia this afternoon reminding people to close Learning Times (LT) before moving on to voice in YM. But we will certainly have lots of opportunities to check out these things during our six weeks.
Hope this helps. Best,
Teresa (23jan04)

Hi,
The power point presentation at the event section did not come out, the voice file is OK, could anyone give me any feedback on this...I would love to see the slides.
(João, 21Jan04).

Joao,
Usually, you need to wait a little while for the slides to show. The first time I opened the htm file, it did not work, then I listened to the sound file and went back to the htm and this time it worked.
Hope this helps,
(Daf, 21Jan04).

 

Hi,
Thanks for the rapid response... I have got it, it came over as a PP file, but I changed it to IE and it started working with sound and everything
Take care, (JOão,21Jan04).

 

Virtual Language Teacher, Bots, TTS, Synthetic voice, Listening sites et al.

 

 

Look at what I have just found. A virtual language teacher! We will be soon replaced :-)
Try it out!
http://vhost.oddcast.com/vhost_minisite/demos/tts/tts_example.html
(Bee, 21Jan04).

 

Great Bee! I enjoyed giving the girl a man's voice :-)
I think it would be very useful and fun for students to practice listening to new vocabulary, especially for EFL.
Cheers,
(Daf, 21Jan04).

 

I feel they could change the picture when there is a man or woman talking though...
(Bee, 21Jan04).

Hi Bee
After having a closer look at the link you sent, I found out it's a demo of a programme so you can create flah animations and record sounds to produce a flash animated speaking character.
Regarding that there's a programme (cheaper perhaps) which I really like called Peopleputty. It allows you to create webpages with an animated character (its head actually). As maybe any of you would like to give it a try (it's great fun although I'm still trying to work out an animation properly, cause i bought it less than two weeks ago!!) I'm sending the link too (and posting it at the links section)
http://www.haptek.com/?url=http://www.haptek.com/products/peopleputty/
I hope you all like it (Sara, 22Jan04).

 

  Hi
> http://vhost.oddcast.com/vhost_minisite/demos/tts/tts_example.html
These are cool! I'd love to have one on my website for my uni students, but the price is just a little too high! I'll add it to my wishlist.
(Janina, 22Jan04).

 

Dear Bee,
What a fabulously interesting and useful site! Great for my 5th graders to enter simple sentences and hear them in two different pronunciations (US & UK), as well as the fe/male tones! Thank you!
Maybe we should contact them and suggest a couple of non-native English speakers for added variations.
(Teresa, 22Jan04).

 

Similar to Bee's tip, but slightly different, I send mine:
http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=f6d4afd83e34564d
(Van, 21Jan04)

 

I have not checked the Virtual teacher yet, but these synthetic voices are created as a prosthetic help for blind, mute, dyslextics, or analphabets to read texts aloud, either online or from a word processor, an e-book etc. And Jack, a friend of mine who  HAS no real voice himself, uses it for communication with a laptop. As he is a young man, he definitely prefers a deep male voice. I still recall his very first experiment with the virtual voice;  that was about nine years ago and there was so synthetic speech voice for the Danish Language  - so the result was most surprising, but still, for him, an eye opener and giving hope for his future once our researchers got enough resources to create a valid Danish version. Speaking a small language  (with 5 million users) has some severe implications when it comes to  translations of special files,  or voice synchronization of movies, etc.
Sus
PS For those who have loads of free time to play: I found a tool, Inv that record your OWN voice, analyzes it and "translates" it into a synthetic voice. In case anyone starts experimenting with this, I would love to learn more!
http://www.asel.udel.edu/speech/InvTutor/index.htm#Contents
Inv tool is a program that allows a person to capture his or her own voice for use in speech synthesis. Using InvTool, users record a carefully selected inventory of "sentences" (actually sentences, phrases, and isolated words) designed to cover almost all of the different combinations of speech sounds found in naturally occurring English. Once the person is finished recording as many of the sentences as he can, InvTool compiles the speech into a database that is used by InvTool's sister program, ModelTalker. ModelTalker can then be used to synthesize sentences that sound like they were spoken by the original individual.   (Susanne, 22Jan04)

Hi everyone!
Nice links sent by Bee and Van. I'm really interested in both Bots and TTS [Text-to-Speech]. So my two cents for today are a couple of links and a proposal. But links first...
A nice article on TTS: http://www.partnershipforlearning.org/article.asp?ArticleID=888
For TTS, there's a small programme called Talk it, which I really like. Although it does not allow you to actually record things, you can always do it with Windows recorder, so you make the programme speak and record it to a .wav file you can use for your materials. You can download it freely from here : http://www.softonic.com/ie/14203
I guess the same thing might be done using the link Bee recommended.
Regarding Bots, a great collection of links by Andreas Lund may be found at http://home.online.no/%7Eanlun/bots.htm
A curious combination of both Bot and TTS is Lucy, at http://www.speak2me.net/IMAGES/indexlucy2.swf You can both read and listen to her.You can also Teach Lucy, providing her with some answers for specific questions.
And the proposal to Webheads!! If you have developed materials using sound, I'm sure your experience might be similar to mine. Sometimes I wanted to do some listening comprehension exercise using a specific text or whaterver, but I had to record them myself . An example like this one...
http://www.elrebumbio.org/students/bachillerato/exercises/skillsexer/motherletter.htm
But I always feel that my students should be fed up with my voice and that it would be really great for them to have the possibility of doing liestening comprehension exercises with different voices and accents. That's why I have investigated about TTS engines, but I've always felt that intonation is not one of their strengths.
A couple of times I've cried out for help at some message boards and one or two people have been kind enough to record small bits for me and send them by email. That's why I'm proposing Webheads to cooperate and exchange voice recorded materials among us. I for one would love to help any of you who wished to have anything recorded for an exercise (despite not being a native speaker I think different accents are a good idea)
So that's my proposal....if any of you would like to cooperate I'm sure we all can  create richer materials... better intonated than with TTS engines !!!
(Sara, 22Jan04).

How interesting, Sara.
This might not be quite as sophisticated as some of your suggestions, but I met Randall at TESOL Salt Lake City, and his website www.esl-lab.com  might be useful in exposing students to authentic informal American speech. I often refer my students to it.
(David, 22Jan04).

 

Thanks David. I already knew Randall's esl-lab. It's really useful.
However now I am more interested in producing listening bits, so I can adpat them to my students than in using ready-made ones. But in my site I have a link for my students  to visit esl-lab. (Sara, 22Jan04).

 

Hello to all,
I apologize for having sent an incomplete URL yesterday. Here's the complete one:
http://www.esl-lab.com
Randall has a number of informal conversations at different proficiency levels. I wonder if audio technology has, or will ever, produce interactive exercises for students who don't have an opportunity to converse with native-speakers (or near-native speakers). I'm thinking especially of my Asian students who are very well versed in grammar (that's what they're taught) but who can't carry on a conversation. Wouldn't that be nice.
(David, 22Jan04).

 

Dear Sara and All,
PureVoice is free and you can record bits and send it as e-mail, with the possibility of editing what has been recorded if you want to make corrections or add comments.
Downloadable at: http://www.cdmatech.com/solutions/products/purevoice_download.jsp
It also comes integrated with Eudora.
Wimba also has a voice e-mail tool, and a voice board. This is a paid service (used to be free). However if you are a member of Learning Times you can use those tools for free. Jonathan will talk about that in his chat sesssion (week 3).
I think that your idea for a collaborative project is super!
(Daf, 22Jan04).

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As for the previous link...this software belongs to Oddcast. On their main page you will find a real person speaking to you in various languages, according to the country you are in ( I guess they recognize your IP number and adjust to that)
http://vhost.oddcast.com/vhost_minisite/
and Sitepal allows you a demo page where you create your own character
http://vhost.oddcast.com/vhost_minisite/index.php?email=1
It features all sorts of products but unfortunatelly much too expensive for most of us :-(
(Bee, 22jan04).

 

I wonder if audio technology has produced, or will ever produce, interactive exercises for students who don't have an opportunity to converse with native-speakers (or near-native speakers). I'm thinking especially of my Asian students who are very well versed in grammar (that's what they're taught), but who can't carry on a conversation.
I was just looking at Vance's "Tracy Talk," and I wonder if it satisfies this need. Has anyone in the group worked with it?
Peace, David (22jan04).

 

Humor

 

Euro-English

If I may interject some humor, I thunk Eva in Germany will like this.

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in plan that would be known as Euro-English.
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c" . . . sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of "k." This should klear up konfusion and
keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f." This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate spelling. Also, al wil
agre that the horrible mes of the silent "e" in the language is disgraceful, and they should go away.
By the 4th yer, people will be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with"z" and "w" with "v." During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vordz Kontaning "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be apliid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU !!!   (David, 22Jan04).

 Andragogy

 

 

Lucy wrote: "I teach English at the Volkshochschule in Munich, Germany.  My areas of expertise are: teaching English to kids, pronunciation, and using  the Internet as a teaching resource."
which arouses my curiosity. I met a gentleman at a TESOL conference some time ago whose badge read "Volkshochschule." I knew what a "Hochschule" is, so I asked him what that is, he said that it's an adult school, yet Lucy teaches children.

David,
Volks-hoch-schule = people's higher school = state sponsored adult education institute
Yes, you're right, my kids' classes are an exception and cause the school administration lots of headaches because of insurance issues.
Lucy (25jan04).

 

David & Lucy
The question of defining different education systems, are challenging. In an online article by Jost Reischmann about Andragogy in Germany found an explanation and the German Folkshochschule (Andragogy is adult pedagogy)
http://www.uni-bamberg.de/ppp/andragogik/AEinGrmy.htm I quote from this : >>The Volkshochschule - adult education for everybody. The most prominent and visible  nstitution of adult education, spontaneously by most people equated with "adult
education", available to everyone in Germany, is the community- based, non-profit institution, Volkshochschule. Tracing its history to more than a century to the enlightening ideas of Grundtvig's Danish adult education and to the Workers Education Cooperatives,
the Volkshochschule has come over the years to incorporate a great variety of innovative ideas. Today the national network of Volkshochschulen is known and available to practically all adults and offers flexible and needs-oriented educational opportunities in
a wide range of topics to everybody (e.g., languages: 29% of the program, health: 25%, creative: 14%, vocationally related courses: 15%, political issues: 3%). In 1997 the 1002 local Volkshochschulen nationwide had 8,252 full-time staff. Through this staff and their
hourly-paid-part-time teachers, the Volkshochschulen offered 516,509 courses to 6.4 million participants plus 77,000 lectures with 2.5 million participants. The local Volkshochschulen have a unique legal status. Either they are part of the local city administration (about two thirds), yet with a high degree of independence, or they are independent educational societies (about one third) which include city authorities on their advisory boards. State and city government funding cover about 60% of the costs of the Volkshochschulen; participants pay the remaining 40%.
Decisions about program, contents, finances, and activities are in the responsibility of the local Volkshochschule. The federal and state Volkshochschul-associations serve a coordinating function. Traditionally most courses offer no credits or certificates but are
taken for their own sake. They take place once a week in the evening for two hours over several weeks. Since the early 1980s more day- courses and full-time classes have come to be offered. This is especially true for vocational training. These classes finish with
certificates and serve as job preparation, thus meeting the growing demand for the training and retraining of adults in vocational fields, especially for unemployed people. >>
I'm sure Lucy can add more details. My own country, Denmark (so closely connected to the German tradition as well in childhood as university etc) has a different use of the term Folkehojskole: mostly always, it means a boarding school  course for adult learners, based on N.F.S. Grundtvig's principles of bringing common "dannelse" or in German "Bildung", and (Christian) enlightenment to the plain people, mostly living in the countryside (starting around 1850 or so) . Grundtvig's ideals are often compared to Friedrich Froebel (whose children school was part of a small community in Germany). In this system, no diploma or
final exam is taken, a topic of actual discussion as we seem to need more qualifications to stand up for demands on lifelong learning. Our whole system of education is currently undergoing major changes. yours, Sus (25jan04).

 

 

 Hello David,
You can also find lots of good material on Andragogy at: http://204.42.170.21/undp/ (enrol at Learn to Learn or My Learning Place) and http://www.infed.org   (Bee, 25Jan04)

 

Troubleshooting, or trying to!

 

 

have a bit of a problem deciding who I should be posting to for which type of question, this being my first online learning
experience.
1) The link six in the reading for week one didn't open. I pmed daf. Was that the correct response?
2) In "Why Johnny won't post" the author talks about changing java in the preferences setting of my browser. Where is that? I have an all Japanese working environment but it's basically in the same place, so if someone kindly explains clearly where it is located on screen i get there. YOu know, the third button along with the pictuer of a house on it or whatever. Who should I ask to be my mentor? All my other chat site friends talk or chat me through things as I click and fumble and screech in despair or joy....
3) Again the above author says for Windows "Choose New Window with this Frame" experiment until you find it. I think he's just too lazy to be helpful and type it out...;) (getting all frustrated and desperate here...)
4) In the Digest (I get the digest) people are sending all the old mail repeatedly in with their new comments. This means I scroll and scroll and never get to the beefy posting...my other digest simply gives me the messages. I would appreciate if people would not just click on reply, or perhaps delete some of the stuff before they send. Or post from the group home page? Any tips on how to make the mail lean and clean? Please...
5)A personal problem: Seeking advice: RE Mail suddenly disappears as I type, because I hit some kind of delete button as I type furiously. So frustrating. I can't figure what combination of disastrous keys I am hitting. Anybody know? It is traumatizing when all my text disappears in an instant...can I disable the function? It happened already this morning...and also happens in  Outlook ...HELP....arggggghhhhh....
hugs and hope,
renata
ps what is wrap the message text at the bottom of this box? it is checked, is that ok?   (Renata, 23Jan04)

Hi, Renata!
I hope you are less stressed out today. Sorry for not answering at once, but there were two reasons: I was hoping some participant would take the lead. And it's been a bit hectic on my side and Daf''s, keeping pages updated and managing school and family life as well. But enough on that. Let's see if I can help you.  :-)
Some links are sometimes 'temporarily' broken. I can assure you that every link was working perfectly 3 weeks ago. I've been trying the Learning Circuits E-Learner text and home page since yesterday, and there is definitely a problem. However, I suggest we keep on trying for anothet two days. They may be having a major overhaul or something of the sort.
We generally post to everybody unless we are commenting specifically on someone's message, in which case we address that person.
Charles Kelly, who created the "10 Netsurfing Tips" file is also a participant in our session, Renata. You could go to our participants page and look up his Yahoo ID, or look in the YG Member s page and send him an email.
As far as I know, and to try to answer your question, you go to Internet Explorer (IE), Tools menu (top), click on Options and then the Advanced tab. Finally, look for the Java items and uncheck them. See what happens. You can always check them back.
As for a mentor, my suggestions is that both the moderators and the participants are all eligible mentors, Renata. But you can always contact any of us moderators through email or when we are online at YM. We will soon be putting up a table with our tentative online schedules.
Regarding replies and keeping original messages, everyone please take a regular look at the Hints page. And please remember that for those participants, like Renata, who receive Daily Digests, it must be terribly frustrating to have to scroll and scroll down (I'm exaggerating on purpose!) to read the next important bit of text. So, two suggestions:
-- delete the header of the original message when replying, because the Subject line always shows the topic;
-- keep only the relevant text of the original message. If no text is necessary for the understanding of the reply, delete it all.
One additional suggestion: change the Subject whenever appropriate. Besides making the discussion more channeled (?) and specific, it makes life simpler for us moderators when wrapping up the threads on a weekly basis to put them up on a Web page. :-)
Renata, I don't really understand what is happening when you say, "Mail suddenly disappears as I type, because I hit some kind of delete button as I type furiously". Maybe you're hitting the Delete key. Take it easy, Renata. No need for stress. We have enough of that in our daily lives, don't we?
I hope this helps you in some way. If there are any other helpful suggestions for Renata, please send them.
(Teresa, 24Jan04)
P.S. - I tried to leave only the points I answered, Renata.

Dear all,
In my previous posting i misquoted the article title from the suggested readings: sorry...It's not 'Why Johnny won't post", it's
from Charles Kelly, 10 Tips...Now as I type  I tried to copy and paste the title and it wouldn't work....so
Does anyone have hot tips about making notes online from articles read on the net, how to file URLS author titles etc effectively? So that quoting a source becomes easy?
Would it be possible to open a blog alongside a reading and make notes in there??
PS this is very important for me as I hope to be going to go back to
higher edu on a distance course so I want to learn to be effective
and organized.
Thank you for the advice, (Renata, 23Jan04)

Dear Renata,
I understood from your problems that you were referring to the "10 Tips" doc, but thank you for clarifying.
I just opened it and copy-pasted a couple of things into Word, including the title, and it was as easy as A, B, C!  ;-)  The only thing that it doesn't keep is the font size and format, but those are minor details when all you want is to keep an 'organized' record of important passages and relevant biblio details.
I think you could create a blog just for that. Look at Vance Stevens' blog. It'll give you ideas. I'm sure you can include not only URLs, but also quote excerpts.
http://vancestevens.blogspot.com/
HTH! (Hope this helps!)
(Teresa, 24Jan04)

Incidentally, I ofen have the same problem that Renata has. My flailing fingers seem to take off in a direction of their own. I don't know what they hit that deletes what I've typed. I frequently have the problem on Blackboard (Beachboard at CSULB).   (David, 24Jan04).

 

 


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Updated on Jan 22, 2004

Created on 12 January 2004

Teresa Almeida d'Eça and  Dafne Gonzalez

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