JOGO DE DENTRO

ICONOCLAST    MESTRE   J C

ORIXÁ PAYBACK GAME


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THERE ARE MANY TRANSLATIONS GIVEN TO EXALT THE CREATOR MOTHER NATURE
 NAMES KNOWN AS: 'GOD' 'TUPÃ' JAH' 'BUDDHA' 'ORIXÁ' 'ALLAH' 'CHRIST' ... ...

I DEDICATE THIS 'GAME'  TO  ALL SPIRITUAL CULTURAL  BELIEF THAT AIM TO OUR EVOLUTION


last updated:  06  August, 2004

Jogo em  PORTUGUÊS

   INDEX RODA VIRTUAL

MORE ORIXÁ EDUCATION

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Read the Português link if you can ginga with BR words. There may be more to ginga at the original text.

If you wanna make a 'compra de jogo'... you're welcomed... send your comments
~~~


Is that fit to capoeiristas to sing + exalt the Orixá in a Roda De Capoeira?
Yes, we must be proud of our BR spiritual heritage !!!

Capoeira songs are related to Orixás. Songs that call 'beira-mar' (Ogum, Iemanja...), Aruanda (heavens... place of peace), dressing white playing Capoeira and not getting dirt (Oxalá) ... and many other ways to keep (mix) culture inside another culture.

Is this... jogo de dentro + jogo de fora?!


Mestre Pastinha stated: Capoeira is spiritually linked to Orixá culture, Africa!
Mestre Bimba: Atabaque can't play to Regional. Due to respect to Candomblé.



Iêê.... Santo Antonio é protetor da barquinha de Noé...
**asking Saint Anthony protection to "Noah's Arch"

Discriminated Africans in BR disguised the names or their Orixá using Christian saints that were somewhat related to their own spiritual guides. Saint Anthony (and São Jorge) relates to Orixá Ogum, also know as Gu, Inkossi or Mucumbe. In fact, it means: when human were forced to worship the Vatican oppressor "god + saints" they sang (play Capoeira) and asked the Orixá Ogum to help them fight against the slave master and guide to freedom.

The 'people' from the Pajelância, from (Gegê, Nagô, Angola...) Candomblé & Umbanda, from Catimbó (da Jurema)... others... pray to spiritual guidance

HISTORIANS, ORAL TRADITION SAYS...

' (...) in ancient Africa people would sing and pray to Iansã (Inhansã, Oiá, Abé, Matamba) or other divinity to send lightning (...) therefore... with the effects of this phenomena... they would fertilise the land with the rain... (...) '


Iêê Capoeira....  Oh Santa Barbara do relampuê, do ralampuê do relampuah...!!!
**the catholic saint barbara is the link to (hide) the Orixá IANSÃ


YET... according to Mestre João Grande < there are songs that must not be performed in a Roda de Capoeira Angola > we capoeiristas (Angola) should not exalt Iansã (Orixá?) in his Roda!

João grande stated:

< this song is 'no good' to Capoeira Angola 'cause  when one sings to Santa Barbara in a Roda it will bring Iansã - Oiá lightning's' to disrupt the Roda < ?? >

*Mestre João Grande is out of tune, unfortunately!!! 


 


Mestre Pastinha once sad: ' the capoeirista always goes back to the Candomblé.' The Orixá gives us the Axé to ginga in tune (Fundamento de Jogo) and evolve our lives.

João Grande was a student of Mestre Pastinha. Why is João Grande now taking Iansã from his Roda!?

Thus... if we don't campaign against this kind of atitude (racism? ignorance?) we will have unfruitful consequences to our BR Culture. The human race will not evolve.

Fortunately... artist Gilberto Gil now Minister of Culture in BR do not deny the Orixá.

Gilberto Gil is due in Geneva on August 2004 to launch in behalf of the BR Cultural Ministry the "Programa Mundial da Capoeira" (Global Capoeira Program) to help progress Capoeira by tuning historic facts, etc. Gil says that he consider Capoeira one of the most important Brazilian cultural segment of our race. Indeed, it will be most appreciated if the Ministry of Culture can help to repair the 'REAL' historic and cultural affairs of BR to add to Capoeira.

Saravá Gil!!!

 CONSEQUENTLY...

As it happened in South America, elsewhere, in Australia with the aborigine culture, racists will again put humans to ginga*(voting, paying taxes... etc!) to $erve the need of their "god" of mercy (?)   a "God" that bombs families and 'bles$' with pedophile, etc. Capitalist church followers and corrupted politicians will U$e Mestre João Grande's words against Capoeira Angola. Some "religiou$" (mestres?!) are already trying to "clean" Capoeira from (their!) "evil" discriminating against capoeiristas that are members of their religion.

We don't need this João Grande's "angoleiro anti-orixá" attitude to encourage more ignorant and fanatic to discriminate Capoeira. We are already protesting against organizations such as "C.B.C./FICA" and many other federations and the "capo-sport olympic mafia" that want to force their selfi$h way to en$lave + corrupt Capoeira.

Denying the Orixá (in a Roda) will add to ginga aggainst the Ideal of Palmares - Freedom!!!

Until now our global Capoeira community didn't have a respectful (direct) professional reply from João Grande himself or his School of Capoeira in NYC.

*Be Aware!!!*

There's lots of 'mestre Ego trip' and Mafia Capoeira business in our Roda, Life. Yess, capoeirista hypocrisy happen. A mestre ( no matter age, or martial belt... ) is just human, after all.

There are many ways to ginga Capoeira 'Zumbi + Palmares' revolution to evolve. Capoeira Angola will also use the Internet to achieve our goal: FREEDOM!
 

ELAROUÊ EXU!     ~~~     OGUM IÊ!    ~~~   EPARREI OIÁ!

Saravá!!!

Axé to you. Saravá (blessings) to all those that respect the next in kind.

Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - Iconoclasst JC


~~~

What triggered the demanda, jogo, game? Mestre Itamar a foundation member from the Senzala group in RJ asked Mestre JC in Australia about 'jogo de dentro' and  'jogo de fora'  or ginga, game inside and outside. I replied and forwarded his call to anyone that want to add to the education of capoeiristas. Other replied, including my camarado (mate) 'Grande' in the USA with the words of his mentor João Grande.
* check the e-mail game bellow...

Forward this matter to anyone you may like to learn about Capoeira, BR culture, Orixá culture... and Life. To anyone interested in our human evolution. To others that vote to ginga with democracy.

Let's us protest to get the education that we deserve. Let's Zumzumzum the lies and virus of corruption that wants to destroy our family and denies FREEDOM to our human race.

**To ginga the game from beginning you may go to the bottom or the page. See the dates that we sent the jogo.


----- Original Message ----- From: Marcus Walters  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004
Subject: BABYLONIAN ORIXA GAME - ?

Hi Mestre JC

It looks like Iemanja has developed a taste to Koca Cola

Offerings : Watermelon and Coca-Cola.  She is fond of anything relating to the sea, such as shells or seawater.

http://www.oocities.com/beargomke/Iemanja.html

Axe'
M


----- Original Message ----- From: Grande <nygrande@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Capoeira, masters contradictions -?

Jeronimo meu irmao, (my brother)

I already told the Roda many times that I am from Minas Gerais, and a student of Mestre Dunga and different to others I am proud of my Capoeira origins with Regional. I studied Regional with master Dunga 14 years and then I moved to Capoeira Angola. As I already sad before, If Mestre Cobra Mansa now wants to say that he's from Bahia, he's from RJ, and that he is a student of mestre Morais since he's 5 years old, it's not my business. He too was graduated with mestre Dunga in Minas. *check the link and see Cobra Mansa's + Mestre Morais Regional games... whe they were young.

Than I trained Angola during 7 years with Mestre Joao Bosco, a graduated from Morais grupo Angola Pelourinho, in Belo Horizonte city. But what I really sought was to be with mestre Joao Grande and follow his method of Capoeira Angola. I've meet him 10 years ago and has been his student for the past 6 years. I want to make sure that with me there's no contradiction Jeronimo.

Jeronimo, I never said that mestre Joao Grande is the unique way to Capoeira Angola. To be or not to be??? God is the only true way.

Como diz Mestre Moraes... as master Morais says: " I win ( Capoeira) when my mate does not reply to my questions - game" -  Indeed???

Master and friends are something special to keep on the safe of our hearts. My doors are open to you, you know. Please mate, can you send me your postal address, I would like to send you the last CD of Master Dunga. Perhaps you'll find something to add to your life with Capoeira with his CD!

Blessings to you and your family my friend.

*By the way, thank you for your concern about myself and my family living in the USA of terror games. We are all ok, thanks to God and my Orixas. I also am teaching some army personnel, "trying to insert a cultural bomb" in their mind with Capoeira Angola tradition - please mate, don't come now telling me that I am playing with contradiction... I can't help but laugh with them, the 'rambo' type that ginga with Angola; but this is another game... - to next time...

Grande - http://www.capoeiraangola.cjb.net


From: Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - JC  Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:13 PM
Subject: "who was your mestre mate... Capoeira, or a trip in an air plane... to NYC - ???"

grande wrote: < rather have 3 friends as mestres with Capital meaning... who was your mestre... >
**JC copied grande's words to play the subject of the jogo

Axe' GRANDE AMIGO... my BIG MATE... your words are well performed, I can use it myself... JC's way?

From this point, I would like to add to mestre Jelon, living in NYC, that when he denounced the mes$tres that become professional just after a trip from BR to overseas, mestre TAP, Varig, Lufthansa, Air-Italia, etc... it is good for us to remember that this irresponsible situation started in BR, in the wheels of the buses that where crossing mestres (?) from Bahia, SP, RJ, etc along BR. A while ago, indeed. From this time, the "mestre aisr plane attitude" was growing. And of course, many mestres in BR take advantage to their personal business when someone graduating "capo-airplane" goes to a new place in EU, etc. *There are sometimes good results from this type of graduation, some teachers my be quite productive to the Ideals of Palmares & Zumbi. Exceptions are not the general rule, as we know!

Also, since we are gingando this 'jogo-de aviao' way of life perhaps we should also consider a revision to this matter after what we learnt from September 11, isn't it? From this point, we should not bullshit but make a difference of a true MESTRE, a guide, educator, from this bullshit me$tre way!!

There's lots of bullshit in our way... this include people that deny Zumbi + Palmares legacy, trying to convert Capoeira to... 'capo-sport'. Others, perhaps not even aware, Mestres, deny their own cultural identity and don't let their students sing and pray to our Orixa tradition, that is part of Capoeira Angola. Unfortunately! We need ASAP tune this game!!

**by the way, to make 'capo-sport', capo-jitsu' etc... one does not need music, berimbau, tradition that evolve with Organic Capoeira way of life; isn't??

Axe' pra quem de Axe'!!! Blessings to those that are part of our Family and respect the next in kind.

Laroieee!!! ~ ~ ~ ! ! ! Capoeira is Life...

Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira  - 'Iconoclast JC'


From: Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - JC  Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004
Subject: [infocapoeira] Capoeira, masters' contradictions -?

Axe'

Grande, now student of Joao Grande in the USA, replied mestra Cigana, from RJ. He tells her that he can only teach and play with his mestre teaches him. Yet, I would like to know which mestre he refers, since we know he acknowledge his Mestre Dunga, from Regional as his mestre too. What happens when Joao Grande says that jogo de fora does not exist, but, Dunga will say the opposite? Which wah will the student that will respect the mestre's way lead his folks? There's Contradiction? Let's educate, please...

According to Grande just like a son a capoeirista student should not go against his 'father' way of life. He acknoledge 2 mestres to his Capoeira life. In a past jogo he stated that mestre Cobra Mansa was denying Mestre Dunga as a mestre, contradicting what Cobra Mansa sad that he was the one that introduced Capoeira Angola in Belo Horizonte city - *this game is yet tto be concluded, Cobra mansa never replied grande, or the Roda.

Unfortunatelyour Quilombo is divided and there are many that are sending their prayers to oppressors, denying the Orixá Culture, true Capoeira Angola tradition!! Iêê!!!

Grande, meu camarado, are you going to let us know how you educate your people in a Roda, please mate!  Don't let us think that you are going 'pra fora' - outside Palmares and against Zumbi and our Capoeira that aims to Freedom - if you play arrogant 'mestre way' and deny the reply. Tkanks!

Grande you also stated: < I believe that Capoeira is already done, there' s no need to invent new traditions and change its organic way > ... ??? Indeed, mate. But, what about mestre João Grande inventing about Iansã - Orixa outside the Roda??? Grande, if life is Capoeira, is life idle? ??? *You are very confused. Since "angoleiros" like João Grande are inventing new tradition to Capoeira, and claiming as to be the true and unique way to Capoeira Angola, you say that you follow it, how can we take serious your words about Life - Capoeira?

As I say, there's lot's of bullshit, and Ego trip + arrogance with the 'mestre' attitude. It's time mate to vote to a better oragnic way of life!

Sarava... Axe' Baba!!!

Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira  - 'Iconoclast JC'



From: Grande    Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: don't think the mestres in Bahia know everything Capoeira... ?

Mestre Cigana,

Me too, I heard this call about what mean jogo de fora and de dentro. I already told before that everybody has it's own Fundamento de jogo to teach and play Capoeira. What we believe is what matters.

I am a student of Mestre Joao Grande and he says that jogo de fora does not exist. I can't go against his words. I agree with you mestra that we must play with and not against us. I believe that Capoeira does not need any new invention to what is already evolved from our traditions, I should not be inventing anything to add to Capoeira. I will leave that to the mestres velhos, I believe that the have enough knowledge to do so, if they fell so. My mestre teaches me to respect others, that's what I will do.

Saude e AXE' !!!

Health, Energy, Peace & Blessings and Axe' to whom is from Axe'!

Grande - http://www.capoeiraangola.cjb.net


From: fcerj <fcerj@bol.com.br> To: mestrejc  Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:39 AM

Subject: Re:Capoeira, as contradicoes... = do "mestre' -?
 

Salve, Jeronimo...  Asé to all!

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT EVERYTHING... LIFE. This rule goes to capoeiristas.

There are some that think that play outside - jogo de fora - is to be away from the opponent. This is not Capoeira Culture - jogo. Capoeira we play with and never against our mates.

I am well know to many of our mestres, such as, João Grande, Curio, João Pequeno, Leopoldina, Artur Emídio, Mendonça... and I do not pray against anyone Capoeira way!

In my professional life with Capoeira I will always teach what I learnt from my MESTRE CANJIQUINHA. I will not follow on the way that some profess: "THE SECRETS OF CAPOEIRA DIE WITH ME."

This is nonsence!

My mestre Canjiquinha guided us saying that Capoeira is Capoeira, there's' no such thing as Capoeira to Be a "just" Regional or Angoleiro way. Capoeira has lots to offer.

The best to get this situation in tune, as far as writing adds, is to talk, ginga, face to face.

Me. CIGANA, IÊ!!!!!!

From: itamar.senzala@ig.com.br To: mestrejc@tpg.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Me. Canjiquinha, you must play according to the Gunga song leading game...
>
>   So, there are mestres in Bahia, Me. Canjiguinha, that say that jogo de fora exist. I don't' know much about it, but, am read to learn and evolve. Yet, I don't think that mestres know everything. A wise person, mestre, graduate this way because everyday we can learn. There's' no shame to be a mestre and say that you need to learn about this or that. This attitude, humble + wise, can only add to our evolution. I am  a mestre that is read to learn from anyone that can add to my life. Please mestre Cigana, I would like to have your address in RJ to invite you to join one of our Senzala group Roda and events.
Grande abraço. Mestre Itamar - RJ.
>
> >From: fcerj < fcerj@bol.com.br >  To: mestrejc  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: according to "one" mestre in the USA jogo de fora does not happen to Capoeira - that may mean, that you will sing a jogo de fora but play the other way round ???


From: Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - JC  Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: what's life? Capoeira is Life!
 
Axe' mates...
 
< a chula não teria surgido no Rio Grando do Sul? > *the chula ritual song could have evovled in South BR?
 
Heitor, your query my friend is like a 'chamada de angola' in a Roda. Let's then open the Roda and play the game. I will fw you call.
 
The 'chula' culture  in fact  has lots to do with the BR culture that we have mixed with many other cultures. We find it in Capoeira and other rituals, songs, etc.
 
Yet, regarding Mestre Joao Grande and Oia-Iansa that was put away from teh Angola Roda, he's out of tune. Theres' no Fundamento de jogo in his way of life. What he says about our Orixá culture can only add to discrimination of Orixas. Let's see if he replies my call and clarifies his mess. Otherwise, we may think that he to is corrupted by the virus that the US president promotes: arrogance + corruption! As I already sad, Mestre Pastinha stated in an interview that the Orixa Culture is part of what Capoeira has in its roots. João Grande says that de promotes Pastinha way - ?? So, I can't shut up to this nonsense. Capoeira bullshit and corruption must be protested no matter who is the mestre that plays such unturned game.
 
Heitor, mate, there's no such thing as "pure Capoeira" or mestre original, etc. Mestre Cobra Mansa once asked in our Roda who is the mestre that has a certificate from his, from his... in BR... mestre velho, that can prove that he's a "true" original mestre? Cobra used this way just to get to what I am saying.

Such talks from "angoleiros" and other ignorant about 'true' mestre, mate, this is nonsense. In Africa these days we know that the 'traditional way' they live and play music, for ex,  is as same as in BR when we parade carnival music - batuicada - and use 'traditional" (?) 2004 plastic skin istead of the animal skin. Pure tradition (?!) is what we live and use now in 2004. Go to a museum and play with dinosaurs to become 'traditiona'", or pure - pure to what?

 
If mestre Joao Grande does not sing to Iansa... we can't we fertilise the Roda! Following this way will invite people to discriminate the african, BR culture, Orixa, etc related. They will have more reason to promote: " this Capoeira is part of voodoo; it's from the devil " - (*as we know there's lots of ignorance voting this way of life!)

*Mestre Joao Grande is a son of Bahia and must be aware of what he promotes that is out of tune. We better clarify the game of words, to make a better way of life!!

 
Heitor, as from my tales from my childhood in the Amazon Jungle, Capoeira, and my grandfather... well, we can get to another game and ginga this part of my Capoeira way... organic jogo da vida.

Sarava!

 
Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira  - 'Iconoclast JC'
 
 
From: Heitor Laso Gonçalves  To: Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - JC Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:48 AM
Subject: o que eh, vida, CAPOEIRA
 
Saravá Mestre Jerônimo,
 
Very good to see you writing about your roots. What about let's us learn more about your grandfather tales in the jungle, you must have lot's of good things to tell us.
 
I wanna ask if the chula came from the south of BR? Could this part to the Capoeira Angola ritual be originated from the original Capoeira in Porto Alegre? Or is it different from the traditions from the gauchos?

I also learnt that in traditional Africa culture people worshiped songs to Iansã or other divinities to get the lightning and have the land fertilized with the effects of this phenomena - and this is something that does happen.

 
Also, can you tell me who is the actual mestre that teaches the most 'pure' Capoeira as did the pioneer mestres?
 
Abraço, Heitor

Original Message ----- From: Grande <nygrande@yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Me.Joao Grande, inside or fora da Roda, please don't discriminate Iansa~!!!

Jeronimo,

When I sad what Mestre Joao Grande teaches this is what I learn from him. He follows what he learnt with his mestre Pastinha and Mestre Cobrinha Verde - from Bahia, and with other mestres velho, since he had the opportunity to live with them.

Regarding the comments that theres' no chula in a Capoeira Angola Ladainha, he says that this subdivision in the song does not exist. Mestre Joao Grande says that what comes after the ladainha is either ladainha or louvacao (praising).

Mate, don't laugh, Mestre Joao Grande and myself are afraid or the lightning of course... that's why he does not like that we sing to Iansa, Santa Barbara do relampue. This is no discrimination, but I consider as respect. Where do you think we are discriminating Jeronimo?

Also, Mestre Joao Grande took part of the CD Angola Pelourinho... but he does not sing the songs that we are questioning. Mestre Moraes is the director and leader of this CD. Ask Cobra mansa and who knows he would get you the answers you ask for the contradictions that you says they do, for example: playing Iuna but not performing the game in a Roda, etc. Perhaps you will respect Cobra's reply?

Jeronimo, why you don't call Joao Grande by phone, or go to NYC in his academy to clarify your chamada... yet, if you try to sing these songs in his Roda he will sure stop your louvacao (call) to Iansa... as he did to others that performed these songs... - he does it to educate!

I am making this compra do jogo just because I received your e-mail from the chamada that mestre Itamar made and want to add to education, etc. But I can't go against my Mestre way in the Roda. When you say that the chula exists all over Brasil, contradicting what my mestre says, that mean that perhaps the person that educated you with Capoeira used this way. I am only telling you  what I learn from my mestre.

Saude e Axe' meu irmao!

Grande  - http://www.capoeiraangola.cjb.net

----- Original Message -----
From: itamar.senzala@ig.com.br  To: mestrejc@tpg.com.au  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: Jogo de Dentro

Mestre Jeronimo, I would like to ask you about jogo de dentro. Can you please add to teh education of my students. Thanks mate. I would like to made it public again that our grupo Senzal does not work with Capoeira Angola. But our students always ask about it, ans I need to leran myself to reply them.

Um grande abraço e obrigado, once again.
Mestre Itamar, Grupo Senzala RJ
 

Em 2 Jul 2004, Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira  - JC escreveu:
 

** My reply to Mestre Itamar due my time to get this game translated is short here. Please check the original reply at the Portuguese link if you want.

Capoeira Angola, the legacy that fights and educate to evolve is just one Capoeira. But, capo-sport that evolved has many variants of the organic meaning of Capoeira Angola.

Jogo de dentro to angoleiros pastiniano (mestre Pastinha Angola way) is different then to other mestre, even in Bahia. Mestre Bimba also plays his Regional with jogo de dentro.
 

1- play dentro who is inside a Roda. Jogo de dentro mean play with and not against our mates. There's also a Berimbau toque (rhythm) that some call jogo de dentro.

2- jogo de dentro, ginga close and low...

3- one play dentro to learn how to act in a REAL situation...

4- my jogo de dentro we can kick and give rasteiras, etc... others say no to this part...

5- we may have a compra de jogo during jogo de dentro. That depends what's going on, and where the Roda is aimed for... if the jogo is ending, in a demonstration, for ex... some 'people' may praise Exu in the end, yet, the Exu ritual is to happen in the beginning... a priest may decide to ginga the 'Host' ritual different to the usual church... a Symphony orchestra, as I lived many times working with my double bass, in BR and overseas, may change the position of what is traditional, first goes to end, or, change the place of the violins, cellos, etc... we are all inside... but... there's outside...

6- we can't call for only one way to jogo de dentro, names and game vary in BR depending the place you are living... in a general way one can say that jogo de dentro happen to the toque de Angola, but...

7- So... there are rules to jogo de dentro but... as in a war... look how people play 'dentro' of Iraqi.. and the way Bin Laden ginga de dentro his way to... Capoeira is a mystery... so does Life!

I am fw to other this call. I hope that it will add to your education and to add to your students.

Uma abraco

Mestre JC


From: Grande <nygrande@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Jogo de Dentro - ??

Mestre Itamar, according to my mestre there's no jogo de fora... >

Grande - http://www.capoeiraangola.cjb.net

'CAPOEIRA ANGOLA IS A DANCE, AN ART, A PROFESSION, AND A CULTURE'
MESTRE JOÃO GRANDE



From: odailton Lopes <odailtonlopes@yahoo.com.br> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: according to 1 Mestre, there's no such thing as jogo de fora...

Ola Grande, Jeronimo e Itamar, Axe.

If there's no such thing as jogo de fora, what is the meaning to the song : ..."Jogo de dentro, jogo de fora, jogo bonito este jogo eh (de) angola..." this song that we all sing in our Rodas. We sing just to please singing? There's' no meaning to the jogo from this song?  My mestre says that we must follow the Gunga call, and the songs have a meaning to what we play jogo.... >

Thanks JC and Grande for your opinion in this matter. This helps us educates ourselves. And congratulation to mestre Itamar, da capoeira regional, that wants to learn more to evolve. Your humble way is a REAL MESTRE lesson to us all.

Abracos e muito AXE.



From: fcerj <fcerj@bol.com.br> To: mestrejc  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 9:52 AM
Subject: Re:Me. Canjiquinha...

Pity Jeronimo, that people that want to learn about Capoeira Angola in RJ do not call me to get them the tuning. I perform everything that my Mestre Canjiquinha told us. The macho way here in RJ is too much!
Please, forgive my modest way but thanks to God i come from Canjiquinha that taught us CAPOEIRA. Or, you play according to the Gunga call. Unfortunately there's much of: if i am from Pastinha I ONLY ginga Angola. If you're Bimba's... just Regional... but the worst is to see that many do not have any Fundamento de jogo and play the wrong for the right... and the other way round....
OH, MY GOD!!!

Asé - Mestre Cigana, iê!!


From: Grande <nygrande@yahoo.com>  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:41 AM

Axe a todos, to all...

I spoke to my mestre: he says that jogo de fora does happen... it happen when the camarado runs to the street because is afraid of play dentro in a Roda of Angola... hahahahahaha... This song that says dentro e fora the words are composed to rhyme... A musica foi feita somente pra rimar... "jogo de dentro, jogo de fora, jogo bonito e o jogo de Angola... god save us, please... valha-me Deus minha Nossa Senhora"

Grande



----- Original Message -----  From: Mestre Jeronimo Capoeira - JC Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: [infocapoeira] Me.Joao Grande, dentro do jogo - fora da Roda: nao discrimine Iansa~!!!

Axe' - com licença...

Capoeira, teacher that contradict does not suit to educate...!!!

I have a chamada to mestre João Grande, since he pronounce his way in our Roda...

    Dear MESTRE JOÃO GRANDE please:

1-P Why there's no chula in Capoeira? We have it performed everywhere in BR, and many mestres teach chula  -?

2-Porque Why are you discriminating our Orixás from your Roda? Are you afraid of Iansã, the lightning? Can you please let's know what you mean...

3- Why Mestre João pequeno de Pastinha sings songs that you say it's no good to a Roda de Capoeira Angola, 'cause they are Samba de Roda? He's just like you from pastinha school, isn't it?

** O mestre João pequeno, also sings evangelic songs, Ladainha. Is he an angoleiro, in tune?

Pode cantar no ritual da Capoeira (Angola) coisa do Candomblé, Umbanda, Catimbó, Pajelância, etc... = a tradição do espiritual do nosso povo, do BR -?! Ou num eh parte da nossa herança cultural de Capoeira, do povo do BR???

**I never discriminated João Pequeno when he sings his evangelic songs in a Roda de Angola. Why are you taking the Orixá from our Roda? Can we respect, and not discriminate, please!

**I am happy to hear Mestre Joao Grande reply to educate us. I will fw his words to everybody.

Mestre Jeronimo - Iconoclast JC


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