AFZS-AV-CAV-T

05 SEP 96

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD

SUBJECT: Conscientious Objector Interview with SPC Mellon (05 Sep 96)

1. On 05 September 1996 I conducted an interview with SPC Mellon to discuss the Conscientious Objector claim made by SPC John R. Goldthwaite. This interview was conducted IAW AR 600-43, and listed below are the results of the interview.

Q. How long have you known SPC Goldthwaite?
A. We met at the Reception Station prior to basic training. Had minimum contact with him through Basic and DLI. I did not really get to know him until we were at AIT at Goodfellow AFB. We were in the same class together.

Q. When did you first hear about SPC Goldthwaite's desires to be classified as a CO?
A. I knew he tried to get out at Goodfellow AFB, but was denied.

Q. What was he like when you first met him? Did he express any views like he currently holds?
A. His views were always different form the first time I met him. He seemed like a libertarian. SPC Goldthwaite always had strong liberal views, and has moved further out to almost anarchism since I have met him.

Q. Do you remember a video called Investigative Reports about the Drug War?
A. Yes, we had a discussion about it after class.

Q. What was this discussion about? Was he disturbed about the class?
A. I would not say he was disturbed, but I would say that he was very bothered by the video. SPC Goldthwaite stated that drugs should be legalized, and that people should be able to do what they want. This class bothered SPC Goldthwaite enough to spark interest.

Q. Did you ever hear that SPC Goldthwaite tried to get out of the Army at Goodfellow AFB?
A. Yes, he tried to get out, but his Commander said he could not do it. I was surprised about this due to the security nature of our MOS.

Q. When was the next time you heard about him trying to get out of the Army?
A. In the past he has talked on numerous occasions about contacting his congressman, but he never has as far as I know. I have told him he needs to go through the proper Army channels first. He wants to get out on a CO status because that is closest to what he believes in. he wouldn't fail a PT test or try for [a] Medical discharge because he doesn't want to accept any type of compensation from the government.

Q. What type of soldier/person is SPC Goldthwaite?
A. He is a good guy that is on time and does what he is told and is trusted by people who know him. I would leave him with my kids. However, his views are very different. He has said to me that he would renounce his US citizenship if he could. He doesn't want to be forced to do anything. Heck, he doesn't even believe in traffic signs. He is not a threat to the unit or anyone. In my opinion he is a very smart guy that is not utilizing his full potential.

Q. Does SPC Goldthwaite talk about his family?
A. Yes, I know that his father is very old, and he is concerned about his mother. He has three or four brothers that I believe have similar views.

Q. Does SPC Goldthwaite have many friends?
A. He has friends in the unit, but the real true friend that I think he confides in is a guy named "Brad." He is in the Army too and is currently at the DLI advanced training. His beliefs are somewhat similar, though not as extreme. I know that he saw him while he was at the Language Olympics.

Q. Where do you think SPC Goldthwaite's beliefs come from?
A. They come from his reading. He reads numerous Philosophy books, Nature books and magazines. you should go look at his book collection. It fills his room.

Q. Does SPC Goldthwaite go out at all?
A. No, he doesn't drink or smoke. He spends most of his time in his room on the computer or watching movies. He watches movies like you and I would watch... nothing strange.

Q. What was SPC Goldthwaite like when he first arrived at the unit?
A. He was excited about flying and coming to Quick Fix. As time went on though being away from home and other factors, he evolved into his current state. His ideas became more extreme.

Q. So he is homesick?
A. No, I can guarantee he is not just homesick.

Q. So what other factors changed him?
A. Well a combination of factors I feel sped up this evolution of thinking. I think the girl he met at DLI that broke his heart played a part, I feel his mother [was a factor], I feel the video at Goodfellow AFB and I feel his Ft Drum experience forced him to search for himself more in reading. I also feel that Brad played a part in this evolution because they always go camping together when they are together.

Q. Do you think SPC Goldthwaite is part of any extremist group like the Freemen or Michigan Militia?
A. I have no evidence of that, but Brad would be the one to ask. I don't think so, because his beliefs will not allow him to claim allegiance to any group. He absolutely has the potential to be contacted especially if this gets out to the public. That is why I have told him to let this go through the Army channels first. I think the Army would get a "Black Eye," and I think many of these groups would rally to support him. I really think all his beliefs come from his readings. I feel the command has done a good job in handling the situation.

Q. Does SPC Goldthwaite believe in the Constitution of the United States?
A. No, he would renounce his citizenship and live in the desert if he could. He does believe in the Declaration of Independence, but he views the Constitution as laws, and he does not acknowledge laws.

Q. Would SPC Goldthwaite fight in any war?
A. Yes, but only to protect his friends, family and property. I am not sure if he would fight for the Army though.

Q. Is SPC Goldthwaite sincere in his beliefs?
A. Yes, absolutely. His beliefs are strong moral and ethical beliefs against the Army, Government, and what we do.

Q. If SPC Goldthwaite gets out of the Army what will he do?
A. He will go back to Arizona, and try to work at the local museum to earn some money to move to the desert. He may go to school as long as the school is not government funded.

2. POC for this interview is CPT Martinez at (extension)

(signed)
Robert A. Martinez
CPT, AV
Investigating Officer