hamazayn yem, paytz intch yess assoum??? April 29 2002, 4:14 AM Pari or Garen, Thank your for your reply, wich I admitt with no reserve. Yes this is true, but you are overestimating the success of the deep Turkification, since you use usual Armenian Lerntzi Inknahavanoutioun, ( that is common to all of us, Karkloukh Lerntzis, me the first). That is all this - Anatolian massa is unable to resist, has no sense of honor, has no psychic back clash possibility. You are right for the majority of the tribes, islamised, or de Armenised before 1860's...., since these are Yenicheris (or call them as you wish, muslims, turks, Hittites or Capadoceans, no matter, (by the way, here you have enormous Armenian blood factor, since we are in fact talking of Pokr Hayk, Gamirgh, Yergrort, Yerrort, Tchorrort Hayk, but lets groop them in the same turkish mass , no matter). But after 1860s, specially between 1860-1895 ( the First massive revolt/Masscres of Sultan Hamid in Daron Vassbouragan), according our Yageghetzagan/haygagan data, and some ( Javakhetzou 7 hadoranotz kirke) data, huge districts, some times provinces, 100% Armenian in the Ergir proper, from the plains of Sassoun to Dikranakert, and in the heart of our Ergir, the Garin-Hamchen-Alachgerd, suddenly, and in a very short period of time, unable to resist the tyrany and razias of the Kurdish tribes arriving from the south of Dikranakert, had converted to Islam and accepted turkicity. Once again, this factor is very important, since it happened thanks to the stupid, corrupted Clergy of Bolis, who did nothing for the Armenian 7 villayets, for the Ergir..... So, these people changed their fate, as they would have changed their shirt, because their local Aghas imagined that this was the best somution to avoid the Kurdish Tribal razias.... But since this was not in a Genocidal campain of massacres, as later, virtually no 'mongol-Turks' were installed among them...., they even for a long period managed to keep their Armenian cult in secret, if not yet for some..., any way, we have arround Garin, Artvin,.... and souther, Manazgerd... entire Armenian districts, with virtually 95% Armenian blood, turned into 'Turks', and sure to be ones.... But the day they changed their religion, and Tongue, they still remained the same, with the same characters, with the same psychology....., and regardless what they realise, admitt, or remember.... Compare them to our Javakhkzis, our Khnoussetzis, change the language, and half of the religion ( because of the well known bizaroid islam of returned, forced Armenians), you have the same.... Sure the turks managed to change their memory, but they changed nothing, and they could not, of their way of thinking, and to understand this, I beg you to remind our Javakhk villages and not the Yerevantzis.... Now, dear Garen, imagine our Garr kloukh Javakhtzi vith his 1,8 yezi keran body, with all his typically, pure, pure among the pure Armenian character, loor ou mounch, charkash...., the last to leave a trenche, if ever,...... I mean their foolish love for their Armenian heritage, for their seven-month-a-year-snow....., and now imagine one second, they realise, they are convinced, that in fact, they are pure Turks, changed by X reason into Armenian....., in your opinion, with all their Armenianism, given their mentality, I mean non National ( if ever you could change Armenian aspect from our Lerntzi mchag mentality) mentality, as human beings, how would they react???? I don't know where you are from, but I have an idea of what would be their reaction, and I assure you that I will flee as far as I can......, I think if Javakhkzis were 'returned Turks' realising their past, it would be wise to evacuate Yerevan ... Same there, in Partzer Hayk, with the exception that THEY REALLY BELIEVE THEY ARE TURK (although Armenian by blud), unlike in my hypothetical with Javakhkzis. Now you have this same Garinetzis, Partzer haykzis in General, at least 1-2 million , islamised befor the 1860, Turk among the Turks, those who massacred us in 1915, those who are massacring Kurds today, in name of their land, they people, Turan, all that being Armenian by blud.... Yes they are Turks, and the most fanatic possible, those that would slaughter in one night all Yerevan, in name of Turan, if they were given a chance...... But they are fanatic Turanists because they really believe they are Turks,...... having in the same time 100% Armenian Partzer Hayk character and blood. ( If you doubt my word, let me give you the best way i know to choose the Istanbouli/Anatolian jivagh mess etc..., from my fellow Parzer Hayktzi: That is, put a Turkish brigade in a desperate situation, lets say Tcharegdar, or Sarsang, or Aghdam...., you will see 99% behaving as normal Turks, but one stupid Yez Ajtahag, stay alone and resist....., you got your difference). You got ya nigga (Armenian Turk) right there. I'm not calling for bloodbath to choose, I'm saying this, to show you most clearly, that even with all the Turkification, and all the usual kemalist policy, this people, because of the massive and province-scale 'shirt change', is far too different from the rest of the mess in Anatolia...., theese men, would be us, if not the actual aspect change, not because their blood, not because purity, etc...., but because they think exactly as our Partzer Haykzi, ( the best pictur, character picture I find, is the words of the roupen)....., if you do not agree, tell me at this point. If yes, then this is my answer: yes - this huge massa of the central Armenian plateau, most extremist Turks today, are my NIGHTMARE, and my HOPE: - My neightmare, because if the D day, they still believe they are Turks, they will fight just as horribly, just as we, because they will fight for their land, they love just like us, because they are part of us...., they are just as 'Hay' as we ( put aside the language and religion, you see what I mean, the thing that maked us so different from the Greeks and the Persians, ...., that so special link, unification, mistic unicity of their Land, their water)...... if we have to face that one, or two million, then may Asdvaz okni mez, I'm absolutly not concerned by the other 100 million 'mess' you described so well., we know them just too well. My NIGHTMARE is the Partzer Haykzis turk-Armenians, thoose of us, believing they are Turks..., and on a second point, and not less important, the point you mentioned so well, the moment 'kyough yess mdnoum'......., Garen jan, if you think I never thought of......, if you think we, all the Ergratzis never thought of, when marching in the Liberated lands.....,It's our Nightmare, Garen jan, Nightmare, and have no solution for......Yeghpayrassban yenk ellalou, kidnalov hanterz, paytz Intch araz????? - But my hope is this: given their pnavoroutioun, garzer klough badiv,...., I hope I described at my best, given this factor, now make them realise, who they are, their past...... , i think the war will be over. This is our task, our duty, make our massivly 'islamised' provinces realise their real past, not the romance made in Bolis. This for the first, massive chabig pokhoghs, our Neightmare/hope. Hos you do not have such personal, family neightmares....., but a massive artnatzoum.... How to do it, i have some ideas, but this is first the job of their elite. They have thosands of students in Germany, france......, they are fanatic Turcs, because they ignore their past.... Make them realise...., the rest, in a decade they will come and force us to replant the Norki andar, if you get me.... Fr the second, forced, raped, islamised while the massacres and the Genocide, it's much more personal, and at least, you have 5-7 million individuals having our blood in today turkey, from this brutal, criminal stage.... No matter what we do or not, the day Turkey will be forced to admitt its crime, most of theese will turn into mentally, psychiatric care neading, some very dangerous individuals.... Imagine just what kind of reactions must be in their heads.... And I do not know what must be done with them, since they will possibly have to choose, question their identity,....., well it will be an unimaginable psychiatric phenomenon.... Later this recognition will come, the more they will be...., well, it's first of all, he problem and the punishment of the turkish people, since here, it's not as easy as you think..., they have no ID memory, etc..., usual turks..., it's on the personal level, imagine what a horror it is, grandpa salaughtering part of your relatives, and then raping Grandma....etc.... If only 10% of the mass react, and we or Turks want it or not, this is inevitable, it's just normal human being mentality...., you may be sure, that a hell will come on earth, untill they are all diagnosed and treated as patients.... now, I know that there are also half a million or so armenians, islamised on a village level, in 1895-1915, mostly in Sssoun, Vsporagan, .....and Cental Anatolia, Kilikia. Their case is rather similar to the first groop, with the difference, that theses village cases know, or doubt their past, bt are still terrorised by the yataghan, or do not know the exact extent of their tragedy.... this is the typical 'Mamig asking to warn mer takavore', that you mention... it's a classical case, and virtually no one could miss such a village, even as a tourist.... if you have a European passport, and a non Armenian name, it's a good test you will do... --------------- now on me, no, I'm not from ex-USSR. I'm half from Yozghat (originally Garin before 1850), Urfa, Giligiya. I returned first in 1989, when it was still USSR, but the roads were cut all over Armenia, the ex-USSR KGB, wonderring if Armenian or not, in my back, in Jermuk ( it was the then Kirovagan KGB chief, relocated there after 7 dec, I do not remeber his name, but i have lot of sympathy, if someone knows him....).... i can't stop smiling, when he came to 'invite' me in his office, shamefull before the young boy i was, inventing excuses to cover his obligation, and in the same time, doing his job...... I never met him, and forgetted, since never had the chance to take the road up from the highway eny more, and presume he returned to Vanazor..... eny way, I say this, because I have a little idea of the USSR, taugh I saw an already post 88, lasting image..... It was the black days, when they were deporting all of Northern Artsakh, Chamkhor, ganzag, Khanlar, tachkessan.... But i find your remark very true on bakvetziz..., and am angry about yerevantzis for that. this stupid mentality is the reason why they ended all in Russia.. They were as Armenian as I, and I must remind perhaps the wonderfull , unique heroes they gave us, during the war... They were sure sovietised, but really not Turkicised..., or an infime minority... They were mostly Artsakhtzis, nakhitchevantzis,....and if had the needed patience, they would have much better citizens than the talancjis of Levon!!! So please, i say this, because i'm not one, please, think twice, when using such words, for a people, that already had enough suffering, without us adding on... the Haysaddantzis learned notting from the Akhbar period, ...but this is other story, our inner family stories.... Now I'm an NKR hovivSouthern Kachatagh, as long as do not have the chance to return to my Garin. but hamperoutioun, hichek karindagen ou Chouchin, hartz dvek, et ov er badgeratzenoum 92 in????? paytz et ko assaze, kyough mdnele......Ay yess mer tzave danem, paytz badasskhan tchounem... Miyevnouynen e,sagayn, mdnelou yem, tchanak aynbess anel, vor Yeghpayrassban tcellam, paytz vor menk ou irenk linen, barz e, vor menk enk linelou.......