December 10, 1997

Christian> Howdy Pat
[Pat] Hello there. I thought I'd try this out. What's the topic tonight?
Christian> No real topic
Christian> Until the chat gets some volume it is difficult to set a firm - topic
Christian> Generally we talk about a range of areas related to - adventure-based practice
Christian> As you can see it is only you and I right now
Christian> Where are you at in the world right now?
[Pat] Thanks for the listserv info. I've been getting alot of mail already - and I'm also starting to think about using adventure ideas in my practice: - hiking, etc.
[Pat] Sorry, I can't keep up? What do you mean?
Christian> Is this Pbbarnbopat ?Abarrno
Christian> WoW that got messed up I meant Pat Abbarrno
[Pat] Abbarno, yes. You know I'm new to this!
Christian> Yup....I do....when I'm glad the e-mail is working for you. - You'll be getting one from me latter this eve with the list from our social - work meeting
Christian> I've already put it on line "social workers using - adventure-based practice" in the table of contents at the bottom of this - page
[Pat] Good. I haven't gotten in touch with anyone since conference. Tell me - more about the hypnotic state you referred to.
Christian> When was I referring to this (what was the context)? It will - help me refresh my memory
[Pat] I think it was regarding therapeutic change states.
[Pat] sorry for the spelling
Christian> Let me be clearer....when were we talking about it...I only ask - because I have a lot to say on the topic...so it helps me to know when or - in what context we were talking about it
Christian> Spelling is not my strong suit either
>> Barton has joined channel #Adventure-basedChat
Christian> Howdy Barton
[Pat] I remember Sandra was in on the discussion (Carlson) about defining - what adventure-based therapy is you mentioned some number of changes that - occurs in therapy and that the "last" stage involved a naturally occurring - hypnotic state. Does this help? It's been a while but I've wanted to ask - you about it again.
[Barton] Good evening to you both,
[Pat] Hi Barton.
Christian> Yeah that helps Pat
Christian> Barton, Pat asked me to explain more about hypnotic state in - adventure-based practice
Christian> Well the simplest explanation is that hypnosis is a trance - state. Trance is a naturally occurring phenomenon that happens for most - people
[Pat] Is this similar to what athletes refer to as "in the zone"?
[Barton] That sounds rather interesting considering what usually is - happening around the individual. Is this compared to the ability to - concentrate on the task at hand?
Christian> It is a state of total absorption in something. This can be an - activity, phenomenon, feeling, experience etc.
Christian> I think it could be what some athletes refer to as the zone...it - would be the total absorption in the activity.
[Barton] Going on a jump usually causes the individual to block any - extraneous noise from the awareness but this to me seems at least within my - experience to be a rare act.
Christian> This can manifest itself in some classic hypnotic phenomenon such - as time effects (time slows down or speeds up)
Christian> sensory effects (feelings heightened, imaginary feelings, etc.)
Christian> In the context of adventure activity this state of absorption - happens very frequently and naturally in the content of the activity
[Barton] Do you think that this act can be taught to be a conscious effort - on the part of an individual?
Christian> For example the person who is rock climbing will often become so - absorbed in the activity that they will not be aware of the passage of time - or will become over aware of the feeling of the rock
[Pat] I have been hearing alot about the use of hypnosis again in therapy - and wondering how this works.
Christian> Barton, I think it can be consciously chosen...and that it can - unconsciously used
Christian> Certainly trance can be learned (meditation and some forms of - prayer would likely have trance like states connected to them.
Christian> Part of what attracted me to hypnotic language was that as I - learned about it I realized that I was seeing people trance out all the - time in adventure activities
[Barton] So this can be developed through mental exercise along the lines - of Jesuit processes or Zen like meditations? Or would this be through the - actual process of adventure activities?
Christian> Well I would say that those are but some of the sources....as I - said from my Ericksonian perspective, trance is a naturally occurring - process
[Barton] The writings of Jack Miller who is a professor of education at the - Ontario Institute of Studies in Education might be an interesting read for - you.
Christian> The easiest example for most people of trance is when you are - driving your car and you are either deeply absorbed in thought or - conversation
Christian> and you know the way but you miss your exit
[Barton] He has written some on the subject of meditation within the - classroom, it might have some perspectives which might shed some light on - the subject.
Christian> or you've been driving and you suddenly realize you don't - remember the last 20 mi
[Pat] Thanks. I have a better idea of trance like states that happen under - stress and driving. How to you explain this as change.
Christian> Barton, I'll have to look at those resources
[Barton] I think I understand better, this state can occur during the - simple act of reading. But I think perhaps the two differ in some manner - but I am not certain I can explain it in written form.
Christian> Well pat take this process and now realize that part of what it - opens is a pathway to the unconscious
Christian> From an Ericksonian perspective the unconscious contains - resources that can be drawn upon to help make change
[Barton] Maybe hypnotic state might be too strong a term, perhaps detached - state might better define it?
[Pat] We're getting too academic . Write this in managed-care terms!
Christian> No I think in reading you can be come so absorbed in the - material that you have entered a trance state...trance does not mean asleep - or other such ideas
[Pat] You guys are too smart for me. I usually deal with fiscal experts.
Christian> The unconscious resources are untapped by the individual, in - the activity they can be used to be successful
[Barton] You have my sympathy.
Christian> To bring it down to the real world, if you are working with - someone backpacking
Christian> and the client has focused exclusively on how miserable the - experience is
Christian> Absorbing the client in an experience (perhaps a story, a game, - or the view)
[Barton] How do we or can we provide opportunities for this untapped - resource to be developed in a meaningful manner?
Christian> and then encouraging the unconscious resources with in the - client to help the client move forward to not fixate on the negative
Christian> how this specifically would look is very difficult to fully - develop in this "chat" environment
[Pat] I'm beginning to understand that these trance states are - opportunities to process the experience and use metaphors, etc.
[Barton] I suspect the negative is a formidable barrier to overcome even - within the experience as it is processed.
[Pat] and you're right, I need to see this more myself. I notice it with - hikers who hike fast and long miles.
Christian> Yes Pat....I have an article in JEE on hypnotic language that - provides some good background. But in fact it is such a rich opportunity - that I'm developing a multi day workshop with the ideas
[Barton] It is one thing to go hiking on a clear warms day, it is quite - another to do it now in Northern Ontario.
[Pat] Give me more info on article and such.
Christian> Go to my resume/vita on the web the full cite is listed under my - publications
[Pat] Barton, the Smoky Mountains are considerably warmer and can more - days!
[Barton] Where are the Smoky Mountains?
Christian> Well I feel like I've blabbed on and on this evening
[Pat] Thanks. Will we have to fly to Denver for this workshop?
[Barton] I have been trying to convince the local board of education to - establish a winter camping program and meeting considerable resistance. - Both from administration and teachers. The negativity of this will be - difficult to overcome. You both have provided food for thought.
Christian> Where or what does their negativity focus around?
Christian> Well Pat in the ideal world I'll offer it in several locations - (I think there is a market for it)...I just have to start selling it
[Pat] Barton, Smoky Mountains are in Tennessee, USA
Christian> something I wish I had (made) more time for.
[Barton] It is too cold for their students, -15 to -10 celius day time and - -20 at night at present though it can go to -40 on occasion. But it is more - a mental attitude for getting out and doing it.
[Pat] Christian, where do I get back copies of AEE journals?
Christian> What is your goal or the goal of the organization?
[Barton] And nine hours of light right now. (roughly)
Christian> You can get the JEE through the AEE....they actually sell all - the back copies....you can go to their web page for full info (I have a - link on my links page