[the home button] Ian MacKaye and SOS

SOS: In "In On the Kill Taker", one can see that there is a definate change going on in the music, and the change is even more obvious in "Red Medicine". Do you want to talk about what that change was?

Ian: I don't think you'll find much of a difference in those albums than between, say, the first two EP's, or between "Steady Diet of Nothing" and "Repeater". To me, they're like steps, and it's a logical progression. We continue to try to challenge ourselves, we continue to try to evolve. We're not interested in playing the same music over and over again. We have no problem with any of our songs whatsoever, we just want to continue to write and to challenge ourselves. When you're writing something, why re-write it? Write something new. So it's not pre-meditated, we have no graph or some chalkboard with a "plan of action" that tells us what to do. We just go into the basement and this is what we come up with.

SOS: So, will you explain the logical progression? Do you just go into the studio and write, and whatever comes out, you record?

Ian: We practice at Guy's parents basement. And we just play with ideas. We play anything we think sounds good. We play anything we like, and anything we think would be interesting for other people to hear. And that's it. Again, there is no great plan, it's a really organic process.

SOS: What are your influences musically? Old stuff, new stuff, anything that really influences you.

Ian: Me personally, or the band?

SOS: Everybody.

Ian: The band's influences are too wide, too varied to even get into.

SOS: Any common influences?

Ian: The Beatles.

Ian: I listen to all kinds of stuff. Today, I listened to a bunch of soul stuff. Ann Peebles, Nina Simone. Nina Simone, there's a great singer. So it's sorta like, the stuff we listen to is completely varied. It spans the entire spectrum. What we probably listen to the least is what people think we listen to the most, which is modern punk rock stuff. I don't hardly listen to any of that.

SOS: Is there any particular reason you don't listen to modern punk rock or hardcore?

Ian: Because it doesn't really interest me, musically or spiritually at all. The bigger bands that is. But some of the smaller, totally unique, obscure bands, are totally cool and interesting. These bands I would listen to. The more generally accepted mainstream bands are perfectly interesting, nice people, but the music doesn't do much for me. It's got more to do with the texture of originality and the texture of stubbornness, which doesn't usually afford mass acceptance.

SOS: Can you name some smaller bands, which you think are good, that are in the scene right now?

Ian: I like the Branch Manager guys a lot. I like the Make-Up. DC bands of course, I like a lot of DC bands. Unwound are a great band. This band called Blonde-Redhead is really cool. And there are other bands I like. I hate to name a few because there's a slew of them all over the joint. And there's plenty of bands that I don't know of, that someone could give me a tape and I would think they're cool. But usually, I have to see them and get a sense of where they're coming from to really get an appreciation of them.

SOS: What is Dischord doing now? Are you putting out anything new? Any new bands?

Ian: We just put out a band called Smart and Crazy, just put out a new Lungfish record. We have a record by the Make-Up coming out. We have a record coming out by Conee Ruin, a band called the Warmers, and a band called Bluetip, and I reckon we're going to start recording again as soon as we're done writing. We're working on a bunch of new stuff right now. So, at the moment, I think we have 9 or 10 active bands, which is sort of an all-time record for us. Usually we only have 4 or 5 bands, so this is the biggest line-up we've had in quite a few years.

SOS: Do you have any side projects going on right now?

Ian: No time for that. No time at all. This is a full time occupation. Running a label and promoting other bands; it's full time.

SOS: What do you have to say about the rumors about you not being straight edge anymore, are they true? There's been a lot of stuff going around, we didn't want to believe it but...

SOS: Or do you even care about the movement anymore?

Ian: I wrote a song called "Straightedge" in 1980. From the very beginning, I said I was never interested in the movement aspect of it, because I always felt like the song was a celebration of personal choice. Individuals decide how they want to live. It wasn't about forming a group of people or a big gang to have a movement, because a movement has a sense that it demands involvement, recruitment, or whatever. For me, it's more like a concert of individuals and many people who shared ideas who had tolerance or respected other people's choices in their own lives. When I wrote the song, I was going to a high school where virtually everybody got stoned. I personally did not, and I was made to feel like an idiot about it. So I wrote a song about my choice not to. This is 1979, 1980. But from the very beginning, I made it clear that I was not interested in the movement aspect. The way I look at it is, individuals make choices, and we have to let them. They're the ones that have to live their own lives. So we have to respect that, and they have to respect my choice as well. Since then, there's been many, many people who have gotten involved in straight edge at the movement level. The majority are totally cool, well-minded people who are just dealing with a tough bunch of years. Teenage years are fucking hardcore. Not that it gets a whole lot easier, but that particular time is real tough. I've known a lot of people who have done great, constructive things with straight edge, and they've used it to propel themselves through a tough time in their lives. And I think that's really, really important. There's also some people I know who have made it a militant thing, who have used it as an excuse to get violent on people and beat people up. I'm totally in opposition to people using that idea to inflict damage on people. I think that's totally ridiculous. That aspect of the movement is disgusting. But, the other aspect is cool. People are doing things, playing in bands, looking out for each other, and that's fine. I don't have any regrets about that. But I've never been a part of any of that.

As far as the rumors are concerned, since the very beginning, when I wrote that song, even before I wrote that song, people made jokes about seeing Ian doing this, that or another thing. I'm so used to people telling me that they saw me do this or they heard me do that or whatever. At this point, I'm 34 years old, and it's a little weird being repeatedly asked about my personal life by people all over the world. Particularly since I don't tout what I do and dont't do. I certainly don't go around telling people what to do with their lives. So it's a little odd, a little weird to be constantly asked about that. Sort of like being stopped every few blocks to see if your underwear is clean. Having said that, on the other hand, I don't mind also saying that I understand why people do it, and I don't have a problem telling people it was never a joke for me, it never was something that I was fooling around about. So, I don't think people have much to worry about. It wasn't and idea I created to sell records or make my band cool or make me cool. It was an actual element of my life, and it continues to be exactly that. It's something that I will take to my grave, and I will never get involved in things that are a complete waste of time.

SOS: Sorry if that was an invasive question or anything...

Ian: A lot of questions are invasive; I know how to answer them. If it was too invasive, I wouldn't have answered it.

SOS: Are there any...

Ian: But it's important to think about that, in my opinion. When you confront someone, and ask them about their personal life, it is an invasive question. You should always think about what you ask people and confront them with.

SOS: Are there any unifying ideas or themes in your music right now? Lyrically?

Ian: I'm sure there are.

SOS: Up to us to discover them?

Ian: Always has been. I have full confidence in people looking for things will find them. No matter what it is you're looking for. People who are looking for things will always find them. I feel Guy and I, and Joe all spend a lot of time thinking, about and writing about things that we think are important. And people will read into that stuf, and find things that resonate. And if they don't, they should listen to other bands, because music is a currency, and you don't have to spend ours. You can spend someone else's too.

SOS: So as long as someone gets something out of your music...

Ian: People say to me, "What about these people who just like to dance?" And I think it's totally legitimate and totally amazing, if there's some people who only like us for the beats. There's no program or single element of our music that people are required to learn or to reveive. It's just what it is. Music is something that has many different facets. We're not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. We leave it to whoever, to receive it however they want. Or not receive it at all. We don't think our music is oxygen, it's not something you're required to take.

SOS: Do you feel now, as if you are kind of an icon to other people? Or being looked up to in any way? Do you feel you have to live up to other people's expectations?

Ian: My name is Ian MacKaye (pronounced Mac-Ki, with a long "i"). I always figured that Ian MacKaye (the wrong pronunciation) is just someone they created. But I understand, because I listen to music and I've developed a relationship with artists who I will never meet. And I supply them with a character and a personality. So I understand how people perceive me. I understand that process. I understand that I am an icon to other people, and I understand that they expect me to have a certain character, and I don't mind, to some degree, always being polite and aware of that. On the other hand, I refuse to let my personality be completely stepped on by somebody ele's expectations of what I'm supposed to be. If I feel like laughing, I'm going to laugh. If I fell like being goofy, I'll be goofy. If I'm in a bad mood, I'm in a bad mood. Because I'm a real human being, I have real human emotions. People say to me, "I met you and you were a fucking dick" or whatever. Well, maybe I was in a bad mood. The you asked me about straight edge, you were very polite about it. And I was ppolite back to you. There are many people who are not polite to me about that kind of question, and I am not so polite to them necessarily. I think people should be aware of how they're speaking. And I'm not going to be polite because I have to uphold some kind of image. At the same time, I know that people perceive me in a certain way, and so I'm aware of what I do. A lot of times, if I'm not aware of what I do, they'll misinterpret me, and I'll spend a lot more energy trying to explain something later. So, there are times when I feel hogtied by other people's expectations of me. That's why I hang out with my friends. That's why the community is so important to me. In Washington, I don't have to mind my P's and Q's around people who have known me 15 to 20 years. You know what i'm saying.

SOS: Would you like to talk about Embrace any?

Ian: Ask me anything you want man.

SOS: What was it like? I love the album a whole lot, would you like to discuss the project?

Ian: Embrace was a band that formed in 1985. It was in conjunction with the Revolution Summer in Washington, D.C. which was a re-taking of the punk scene in Washington. A better choice of words is..

SOS: Revitalizing?

Ian: Even better than that would be abandoning the existing punk scene, and just creating our own. We started things anew that wouldn't appeal to the stupid skinhead kids beating everyone up. We said, "If that's what the punk scene is now, you can have it. We're gonna start our own thing." So Rites of Spring formed, Lunchmeat, Kingfish, Beefeater, and Embrace, and Gray Matter, alll these sorts of bands. Embrace initially came out of a series of projects. We were trying to get a band started. I played bass at one point, then went to guitar, and then I was singing. We kept switching out members. And, eventually, I was singing, Chris Bald on bass, Mike Hampton on guitar, Jeff Nelson from Minor Threat drumming. Interesting line-up. But Jeff and I said we couldn't possibly be in a band together anymore, because we disagree on so many things, so he quit the band, and we got Ivor to drum. Ivor, Mike and Chris were all in a band called Faith before they were in Embrace. Faith was formed in 1981 or 82, my brother sang in that band. They broke up kinda bitterly. So for the 3 of them to get back together, even with me singing, was a ill-fated project. Everybody wanted to be in the band so badly, so we were willing to put up with everybody's personalities. But I knew from the beginning that it was never going to last. And it lasted 9 months, those guys would not get along. But for me, at the time, it was a really intense era. Minor Threat had been such a big deal, and then broke up, I thought, in the nick of time, before we became really horrible. And then the punk scene that I had become a part of was such a total disaster in Washington. Embrace had a sense of super-urgency to it. And the lyrics that I was writing, I felt like I could just write anything. There was so much stuff to write about. Everything was really clear, it was an interesting time. And I think that some of my best words were written at that time. Ultimately, they couldn't get along. We only played 9 shows. That's it. We fought about recording, and I finally got this stuff documented. And when I wanted to release it, there was an endless quarrel about whether or not to release it. I'm personally glad we did. The other people in the band were definately against it.

SOS: That album did have an incredible impact, especially on people now in the Emo scene. They really, look to that album, I would say. Do you want to talk about Minor Threat, the break up? I know nothing of Minor Threat's history, so I'm curious.

Ian: As a band gets bigger, aspirations come into play. People form bands, when their aspirations are totally out of reach, it really has no relevance what you want to do with yourself, you can't possibly do it. But when the aspirations come within reach, then people's differences and things they want that are different, they come into play. And we just got to a point where we totally disagreed on how we should operate the band and what sort of business we should be doing, what we should sign to labels, blah blah blah. And there were some big meetings about what we should do, and it was really clear, to me and everyone else in the band, that we had worked too hard and the name of the band would just suffer if we stayed together any longer. And I personally still look at a lot of bands that continue to play under the same name after the spirit or intent of the band is long gone, and i felt it really devalued those bands. That's why I say I think the band broke up in the nick of time. Minor Threat will always be exactly what it was. And no one can ever take that away from them. We never did anything too gross, you know what I'm saying? And most bands have done just that. That's the way I feel about Embrace. And I hope Fugazi will, I'm sure we will, actually, know when things stink enough to stop.

SOS: What's in the future for you? More albums for Fugazi?

Ian: I don't know. I never look to the future. Never have.

SOS: All right, thanks very much for the interview.

Ian: You're welcome.