INTERVIEW WITH DON CUNNINGHAM SENSEI

By Ben Haryo

Judo and Kendo are the most popular martial arts in Japan. Many foreigners came to Japan and learned these fabulous Budo forms in their original place of birth. Don Cunningham sensei was one of those few lucky non-Japanese, who trained in Japan and received his black belt there. During his stay in Japan, he also researched old Judo/Jujutsu schools and their weapons, particularly the Jutte, on which he wrote a book about. In this interview, Cunningham sensei will tell us about his Japan experience, for the benefit of our website surfers. Read on and Enjoy!

Cunningham sensei, we would like to hear from you about your experiences during your training in Japan. Please begin by telling us about your Judo training. I heard you trained directly in the Kodokan, am I right? How long was it?

I initially began judo when I was 13 years old and a wrestler in school. I wanted to improve my wrestling skills. Later when I was a Hospital Corpsman with the U.S. Marines, I returned to practicing and competing in judo, but I quit after leaving the military and entering college. I didn't do any judo again until I was working in Japan a few years later. I worked for NEC Corporation in Abiko, Chiba Prefecture, and was doing some weight-lifting in the company's health club when I saw someone enter in a judogi. I followed him and discovered the company had a judo club. I immediately joined, training with them while in Japan and with Tamura Judo Institute in Dallas, Texas, during the periods I returned home. I started as a white belt, beginner, since it had been so long since I had practiced judo. I participated in as many tournaments as I could, both in the U.S. and Japan, advancing to black belt (shodan) in about four or five years.

I did join the Kodokan while I was living and working in Japan. By that time, though, I had changed jobs to working for Fujitsu in Musashi-Nakahara, a suburb of Tokyo. I lived in Higashi-Hakuraku, a suburb of Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture. The Kodokan was about a 1-1/2 hour train ride from work or 2 hours from my home. During the week, the Kodokan closes at 8 p.m., so I usually only trained there occasionally on weekends when visiting Tokyo.

My primary training dojo was Asahi Judo Academy in the same area where I lived. The head of the dojo was also the judo instructor and champion for the Kanagawa Prefecture Police Department, so I got to meet and train with many of the police judo clubs around Yokohama as well. Asahi Dai sensei, also coached the Keio University Judo Team, so I also trained occasionally with them as well. Most of the judoka at Asahi Judo Academy were high school players, but it was rated as one of the best in high school level competition, so it attracted a lot of serious competitors.

What are your impressions of the Japanese Judo Senseis you have trained with in Japan? Amongst them, who influenced you the most/gave you the best training experience?

First, my best friend is Asahi Dai sensei. While he was ranked godan even before I received my shodan, he never would consider himself my teacher or even my sempai (senior) since I was older than him. The Japanese have a lot of respect for age and someone older than you can not be considered subordinate, even if they are ranked lower in the martial arts. Until his mother died a few years ago, I considered her my teacher at Asahi Judo Dojo, although her son, Asahi Dai, actually taught me really great techniques. He was an incredible competitor and very strong.

Because of his reputation, many Japanese Olympians and other famous Japanese judoka would often visit the training sessions. There were so many that I can't name them all, or even recall some of their names, although I have a lot of their photos. I enjoyed meeting Ryoko Tamura, otherwise known as "Yawara-chan" and several time 48kg Olympic Women's judo champion. I continued to correspond with her for years, but not since she got married and retired from judo.

The most impressive Japanese judoka I met was Kotani (Sumiyuki) sensei, one of the last 10th dan ranked judoka. I met him at Keio University. Although he was too old to practice or even teach much more than a few pointers, he came and observed the classes. His teachings of judo philosophy has greatly influenced my own personal philosophy due to our conversations.

What does the Kodokan looks like? Are there many foreigners training with you? How was the grading test conducted? Did they make it especially hard for foreigners, or does everybody got equal treatment?

I met many foreigners or ex-patriates practicing judo when I visited the Kodokan, but not at the other places for the majority of my training. Frequently, I was the only non-Japanese in most of the local and regional tournaments in which I participated in Japan. The gradings I received in Japan were at Batsugun Tournaments, special grading tournaments. Each grade would line up and compete. If you won five matches in a row, you received a grading to the next level. Unlike regular tournaments, though, there were no rest periods between matches. If you lost any before completing the fifth match, you were eliminated. After winning five, you were finished and the next two competitors would start. I can't think of any fairer or equal method of grading.

After reaching shodan, I had to perform Nage-no-Kata to receive the Kodokan license for 1st degree. For 2nd degree (nidan), I had to perform Katame-no-Kata. However, I understand they have relaxed these requirements now, so shodan only has to perform the first three sections of Nage-no-Kata, then the entire five sections for nidan. Only sandan is now required to perform Katame-no-Kata.

The Kodokan is a huge facility in the northern part of Tokyo. There are two main buildings, the original which houses the administrative offices and the newer building which includes several training areas, including a four tournament mat area on the fourth floor with observation seating from the top floor. There is also a museum and library on the third floor. Many of Jigoro Kano sensei's personal items are on display there. There are also dormitory-style living accomodations in the lower section.

You have competed against Japanese and non-Japanese. Do you think the Japanese Judokas, in general, has better skills when compared to non-Japanese?

There are certainly many exceptions, such as Anton Geesink, but for the most part I've found the Japanese take judo practice and competition much more seriously than any other nationality. The Koreans and the Chinese have been doing quite well in Olympic competition, although France and Russia are still pretty good.

Do they still teach Judo self-defense techniques (Goshin Jutsu) in the Kodokan? Do you need special license to learn such techniques?

They have teachers for all the Kodokan Judo techniques and kata, including Goshin-Jutsu. They also often offer special training sessions or courses for specific kata.

Amongst all the current Kodokan teachers, who is the one considered to have the best skills/knowledge in the self-defense techniques of Goshin Jutsu and Kime no Kata? Have you trained with Mr. Sato Shizuya (IMAF Director & Hachidan Judo) who is also known as an expert in Judo self-defense techniques?

As I mentioned, I didn't train much at the Kodokan. It was just too inconvenient because they closed so early. I don't recall Shizuya sensei, although we might have met. The only person at the Kodokan that I still keep in touch with is Murata Naoki sensei, curator of the Kodokan museum. He has helped me considerably in my research of old jujutsu styles and especially those associated with arresting arts.

I heard that Professor Kano's original intention of founding the Kodokan was to preserve the ancient art of Jujutsu. I would like to hear your opinion regarding this matter.

According to everything I've read that he wrote about Kodokan Judo as well as his biographers, I believe this was his primary objective. Kano was not that interested in sport judo, although he was very active in promoting exercise and health.

In my previous interview with our friend Mr. Yamada Kiyotaka (Okinawan Goju-ryu Yondan, in Osaka, from Higa Seiko line), he told us that Jujutsu is considered a lost art/very rare art in Japan. Have you been able to visit any Jujutsu Dojo/watch any Jujutsu demonstrations in Japan? What are your thoughts about Jujutsu in Japan nowadays?

Due to my interest in jutte, several of my police judo friends managed to introduce and allow me to watch or even train with a few koryu jujutsu and kenjutsu instructors. I was never accepted as a student, mainly because I didn't have the time required to devote to any particular school, but also because I was a foreigner. Many would not even allow non-Japanese to observe, much less practice with their classes. There is not much interest in the koryu arts among modern Japanese, so I agree that it tends to be declining rapidly. Many styles have completely disappeared. There are a few Japanese who are obsessed with keeping various styles alive and performing demonstrations, etc., but it is a problem since most Japanese are not that interested in the traditional arts.

Ah.. so you agree with Mr. Yamada that Jujutsu is rapidly declining in Japan. It's all so sad. I practice Jujutsu myself and I think it will be a disaster if this art died out in its own mother country. If the current Japanese Jujutsu dojos become more open to foreigners, do you think their arts will have better chances of survival? Will they be better preserved?

This is a difficult question to answer. Many traditional Japanese people are xenophobic, that is, fearful of outsiders. For the same reason that a Japanese person may be drawn to study their the traditional arts (jujutsu, kenjutsu, shodo, chado, etc.) is also likely to make them uncomfortable around foreigners. I believe that is why most Japanese jujutsu schools are not open to foreigners. Also, that is why many modern Japanese, who are interested in different cultures and open to interaction with outsiders, are not that interested in pursuing traditional martial arts study. Most of the "traditional" Japanese martial arts instructors who openly accept foreigners are really just good businessmen and recognize they need a larger market to make money. This is just my opinion and is a generalization, but I think it will be an ongoing problem with maintaining Japanese traditions.

Could you please tell us more about the Jujutsu schools you have witnessed in Japan? Which schools you have visited? Was Daito-ryu amongst them? Of all the Jujutsu senseis you have met in Japan, who impressed you the most?

I visited so many different schools and teachers. I can't recall all of their names or styles. I was primarily interested in jutte waza, so I visited Shibukawa-ryu, Masaki-ryu, and many others with any relationship to arresting arts. I have witnessed Daito-ryu exhibitions, but I never actually trained with any traditional Daito-ryu schools, except for a few of the modern versions of Aikido.

What are your impressions about the skill levels of current Japanese Jujutsu practitioners? Especially when compared to Jujutsu practitioners from other countries, let's say when compared with Danzan-ryu practitioners from USA?

I really believe that I have seen or met skilled jujutsu practitioners from just about every country I've visited. I think the Japanese put more emphasis on traditional kata, so in that respect, they may be more skilled at performing kata, but otherwise there is no real differences in skill levels that I can see. I must mention that I've met a few Japanese instructors of dubious linage, but there are many more fraudulent and bogus jujutsu instructors here in the U.S.

Do you think it is good for a Judoka to learn Jujutsu in order to broaden his knowledge?

I think Kodokan Judo is basically a form of jujutsu. All of the techniques were taken from traditional Japanese jujutsu schools and combined into judo. Therefore, any judoka should also consider themselves jujutsuka. The emphasis on sport judo, though, has caused many to ignore the self-defense techniques which are not allowed in competition for safety reasons, but which are still a part of judo. Many judoka, therefore, don't even know about judo's striking arts or many of the self-defense techniques.

Since you think that Kodokan Judo is a form of Jujutsu & any Judoka should consider themselves Jujutsuka, then what are your thoughts about former Judo players adapting their Judo skills for self-defense and call their creation "Jujutsu"?

I have no problem with that. I call my own self-defense training classes "judo/jujutsu" so I think that is okay. I still primarily teach sport judo, though.

I heard Kendo is one of the most popular martial art in Japan. Please tell us a little about your Kendo experience in Japan. I was told that you entered some competitions there & was "feared" for your skills.

I wasn't "feared" for my skills as much as for my size. A good friend and co-worker at Fujitsu was the coach for the company's kendo team. He encouraged me to participate with them. I suspect it was so they could have a large non-Japanese on their team to intimidate other players at tournaments.

I liked kendo for the emphasis on traditional techniques and etiquette. I learned a lot about traditional Japanese martial arts by observing and learning kendo, both for tournament and for preparation and practice.

Does size really matters in Kendo? Did your size gave you advantage in reach, in stamina or in strength?

Size and strength, even gender, is not considered in pairings for kendo matches as in judo. Originally, judo did not have size or weight categories, either. As in judo, however, there are advantages to reach, strength, and size in kendo matches, just not as apparent. A smaller, faster player may also have advantage in scoring a point against a larger, slower opponent, too. Kendo is more like chess in many ways than a strictly physical sport, although that's hard to remember when you're exhausted from hard practice sessions. Due to my size and lack of finesse in technique, I scored most of my points by "bouncing" my opponents out of the match area or knocking them to the ground instead of by good clean shinai strikes. I'm just not that good at kendo since I haven't practiced it as much.

What are your thoughts about sword-related arts other than Kendo, such as Iaido/Iaijutsu, Kenjutsu and Ninjutsu? Would Kendo skills be useful in learning those arts?

Definitely. The All-Japan Kendo Federation (Dai-Nippon Kendo Renmai) also includes iaido (sword drawing) and jodo (short staff) in their curriculum along with the sport form of kendo.

Nowadays there are many "Gaijin" with great martial arts skills & some of them have even earned teaching licenses in Nihon Budo. Some of us think that one day Nihon Budo will become a "property of the people of Planet Earth" like Soccer and Baseball, where everybody can excel regardless of race or place of birth. I'd love to hear your opinion about this matter.

I see many martial arts being nationalized, especially here in the U.S. Most claim the reason is to eliminate the traditional stuff and focus more on practical self-defense skills. I believe that the Japanese martial arts should retain their traditional culture. That's what I find the most interesting. If I am only concerned about self-defense, then it's really more practical to carry a gun than to train in the martial arts, especially in many dangerous areas of a city like Chicago.

What are your thoughts about Jujutsu and Karate styles which were born in the USA but retained much their traditions? (For example: Danzan-ryu (H. Okazaki), Kosho-ryu (James Mitose), Yanagi-ryu (Don Angier) and many others).

I have a lot of respect for Danzan-ryu practitioners and Okazaki sensei. I've read many of his writings about his visits to Japan before WWII and his experiences in training with various schools. I know many dedicated and sincere Danzan-ryu practitioners, too.

I have met Don Angier sensei and seen him and his students demonstrate their Yanagi-ryu sword and unarmed arts. I was most impressed with them as well. They are very serious about maintaining each and every aspect of Japanese tradition down to the most minor details.

As for James Mitose, I believe he was an extortionist and murderer, and I can not respect any one with such criminal tendencies. It seems the antithesis of traditional Japanese martial arts and ways to bully others who are old and weak or to kill those who are otherwise defenseless. Therefore, I have nothing but contempt for Mr. Mitose or his followers.

As our last question, I'd like to know your opinion about "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu", where Judo skills are adapted for professional fighting.

I've heard and seen a lot about Brazilian Jujutsu and I've trained briefly with some exponents at various clinics. Although I am not that familiar with it, Brazilian style jujutsu seemed a lot like judo with more emphasis on groundwork or katame-waza. I've also heard that exponents have done well in the "anything goes" type competitions. However, my judo friends on the West coast tell me that the Brazilian style clubs in their areas typically don't fare well at judo tournaments. It may be because of the stricter rules or something. Kano sensei supposedly wouldn't allow students to even practice groundwork until they had mastered throwing techniques (nage-waza). As for myself, being a former high school wrestler, I've always favored groundwork in practice and competition.

Cunningham sensei, thank you very much for this most enlightening interview! Interested readers are advised to send emails directly to Don Cunningham’s website at www.e-budokai.com .