When is Incest Ok?? - The Trek BBS




	A Trek Nation site

Please note: The Neutral Zone is the place to discuss contentious issues, some of which may become rather heated. In general, this means this forum will be the home for serious discussions on politics, issues of life, religion and morals, and major world views. It is a place where the saying "If you don't like it, don't visit it" applies. Note that you must have 100 posts to start a thread here, or 50 to post replies.

This forum has a minimum amount of moderation. Please read the Trek BBS Policy for more details on the forum.

The Trek BBS

The Neutral Zone

When is Incest Ok??

profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: When is Incest Ok?? - (Read 669 Times)
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted January 26, 2002 01:08 I had a conversation with a friend recently and he told me that it's not alright to have sexual relations with a first cousin,But to have sexual relations with a 2nd,3rd,4th etc is acceptable..And then i had the same conversation with other people and their responses more often then not were similar.I was under the Impression that Incest was ILLEGAL.Also i asked if two people had the same Great great great great great great great great great grandparents that spanded back 6,000 years,If these 2 people were to come together and have relations would this be Incest and the person said NO it would not.I don't care what anyone says i would never have sex with someone that is related to me or my family in anyway.There are plenty of other attractive people in the world without me having to dable in my own bloodline.... ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated.
ayla Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:15 Well Seven, you seem to have made up your mind already, so it's not like my arguements will sway you. But none the less.. I must bite. It isn't illegal for you to fornicate with second cousins and those futher removed, however, to have such relations with first cousins is illegal. It actually makes sense, since when relatives are further removed, there have been other genes thrown into the pool and the tragedies of inbreeding won't set in. Everyone is related to everyone else, bet your neighbour isn't further than a 20th cousin. Sorry, that's how the world works.. ! Remember, the Egyptian royal line married brother and sister to keep the bloodlines pure, but most of the time they were half brother and sister (from different mothers), and none of them except for Akhenaten were actually crazy.. ------------------ It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out. [This message has been edited by ayla (edited January 26, 2002).]
movieboy Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:22 Incest is especially 'bad' in my view if children are produced as a result of a union. Obviously by being the product of very similar genomes they would suffer from some kind of conditions.
Duster Fleet Captain	posted January 26, 2002 01:22 quote: Originally posted by ayla: Everyone is related to everyone else,.. Simply not true.
ayla Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:26 quote: Originally posted by Duster: Simply not true. Why not, my non believing friend? Are we not all part of the human race? Did we not all descend from the monkeys, or for the creationalists, are all children of Adam and Eve? ------------------ It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out.
Techman47 Commodore	posted January 26, 2002 01:28 ^^Seconded...though according to who you ask, and considering the number of genes, it's remotely possible we all had the same group of progenitors.
Miss Chicken Captain	posted January 26, 2002 01:34 In many countries of the world (including my own)it is not illegal to marry your first cousin though most people look down on it. Queen Victoria married her 1st counsin, as did Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin. I don't believe that first cousin marriages are illegal anywhere in Europe and it is legal in Canada. I looked up on the web and found a page that said it was illegal in 31 US states. That means there are 19 states that Americans can marry their 1st cousins in.
Techman47 Commodore	posted January 26, 2002 01:35 ayla quote: Did we not all descend from the monkeys... We did not descend from monkey! We evolved from a branch of the primate group that includes monkeys, apes, chimps and so forth.
ayla Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:41 quote: Originally posted by Miss Chicken: I don't believe that first cousin marriages are illegal anywhere in Europe and it is legal in Canada. I looked up on the web and found a page that said it was illegal in 31 US states. That means there are 19 states that Americans can marry their 1st cousins in. snicker That, sounds like a hick joke.. I remember reading somewhere that it takes four to six years for a non-incestuous bond to form among relatives, perhaps that is why some find themselves so attracted to cousins. ------------------ It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out.
ayla Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:46 quote: Originally posted by Techman47: ayla We did not descend from monkey! *We evolved from a branch of the primate group that includes* monkeys, apes, chimps and so forth.** Ahh sorry if that's the meaning that you got from that message, everyone knows that we aren't the descendants of a modern monkey, a primitive primate maybe, but not the ones that you see in a zoo ------------------ It is possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out. [This message has been edited by ayla (edited January 26, 2002).]
Miss Chicken Captain	posted January 26, 2002 01:46 I found this websie which shows a map of which US states allow cousin marriages and which do not http://www.cousincouples.com/info/states.shtml
movieboy Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 01:47 quote: Originally posted by Duster: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ayla: Everyone is related to everyone else,.. Simply not true.[/QUOTE] Actually it is true. All human beings alive are said to have descended from the same ancestors from Africa approximately 100,000 years ago.
BlackHawk Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 04:53 According to the church/bible, didn't we practice incest? And don't we still? We're all brothers, after all! snicker -- BlackHawk
Duster Fleet Captain	posted January 26, 2002 05:55 quote: Originally posted by movieboy: Actually it is true. All human beings alive are said to have descended from the same ancestors from Africa approximately 100,000 years ago. That was a theory that has been revised (or discarded).
Phoenicianknight Captain	posted January 26, 2002 06:07 quote: Originally posted by Miss Chicken: I found this websie which shows a map of which US states allow cousin marriages and which do not http://www.cousincouples.com/info/states.shtml I can see it now: Billy Bob pointing to the web site: "Lookie here on this puter screen Lucy Mae, it says here that we can lie down together nakid, just like uncle Cleo did with Auntie Jazabela."
Jack Munoz Lieutenant	posted January 26, 2002 06:38 Of course, I would never have sex with my sister -- even though she's smart and pretty -- because that would be very weird: I've known her all my life. Yuck! But if my dad had had an affair with our neighbor Mrs. Jones back in the '70s; so Mr. & Mrs. Jones' daughter, Jane, was really my half-sister; but I didn't know that. Fast forward 25 years, and Jane and I become close friends; then we become lovers. And my dad tells me, "Son, Jane is really your half-sister." I'd say, "So what!" I'd keep having sex with Jane. I might even fall in love with her and get married. Love is love. It's rare. It's glorious. (Though I must admit I'd probably get a "snip job" to avoid passing on recessive genes to my kid.)
Andor Commander	posted January 26, 2002 10:06 The presence of lethal recessives genes that can be shared between near relatives, is what gives high probability of a non-viable offspring in the interbreeding among close family. A practical known of this fact originated the apparition of a taboo against incest practices. If you have a completely healthy genetic program, there would be no biological problem that you breed with a clone of yourself of the opposite sex. This is the argument of a Lazarus Long novel by Heinlein. [This message has been edited by Andor (edited January 26, 2002).]
movieboy Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 11:26 quote: Originally posted by Duster: That was a theory that has been revised (or discarded). [/B] There are two theories concerning the origin of modern humans. The 'Out of Africa' theory and the 'Multi-Regional' theory.
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 26, 2002 12:36 In 19 states it's legal, and in 12 southern states it's mandatory.
Phoenicianknight Captain	posted January 26, 2002 15:50 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: In 19 states it's legal, and in 12 southern states it's mandatory. LOL
mastequila Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 26, 2002 16:02 quote: Originally posted by Jack Munoz: But if my dad had had an affair with our neighbor Mrs. Jones back in the '70s; so Mr. & Mrs. Jones' daughter, Jane, was really my half-sister; but I didn't know that. Fast forward 25 years, and Jane and I become close friends; then we become lovers. And my dad tells me, "Son, Jane is really your half-sister." I'd say, "So what!" I'd keep having sex with Jane. I might even fall in love with her and get married. Love is love. It's rare. It's glorious. I think I read about this in a V.C. Andrews novel.
propita Captain	posted January 27, 2002 00:58 There was an item on the news a few years back of a couple in England. Married some years and had a kid and another on the way. Found out they were siblings (can't remember if full or half). Their marriage was ended by the state, even though their child (and when born, their second child) were perfectly healthy. Guess they were lucky the kids were fine, but it still wasn't the couple's fault their parents had kids irresponsibly.
Miss Chicken Captain	posted January 27, 2002 03:50 I believe there was a similar case in New Zealand several years ago. The man and the woman were brother and sister adopted out at birth. They were happily married and had four children, all healthy when it was discovered that they were biological siblings. The matter went before the court. The couple asked if they could stay together if the woman was sterilised. The court refused and said that the marriage must be annulled. The couple were ordered to take two of the children each and were told they weren't allowed to have contact with each other. I wonder how likely it would be for children to be related as a result of sperm donation?
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted January 27, 2002 04:25 quote: Originally posted by Jack Munoz: Fast forward 25 years, and Jane and I become close friends; then we become lovers. And my dad tells me, "Son, Jane is really your half-sister." I'd say, "So what!" I'd keep having sex with Jane. I might even fall in love with her and get married. Love is love. It's rare. It's glorious. (Though I must admit I'd probably get a "snip job" to avoid passing on recessive genes to my kid.) Vomits ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated.
The.Kaalar! Commander	posted January 27, 2002 17:07 Can I have sex with my cousin's cousin? She wouldn't have any relation to me.
dream wanderer Captain	posted January 27, 2002 20:03 last summer I went ancestor hunting and went into the hills of some of the southern states...some of these places were quite remote and would have been difficult to get to in the days before paved roads.. No wonder people married there cousins there...no one could get in or out of that place!! I note with interest in the early days of Virginia's history the so-called "first families"...The Randolph's...Jeffersons and Harrisons etc married their cousins...no one seemed to care...but once it moved to the back country it started to have an 'ewww' factor to it.. My father and mother are related to some of the same people..but they somehow managed to not be blood related...although they were connected by marriage .
MajorBarcalow Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 28, 2002 20:37 Insest is ok when it is for love but not lust. And babies being born by two cousins or brothers and a sister or a mother and son or not bad. They are normal and smart and think like us fine. There is no sin in loving a girlfriend in my family.
Pete Commander	posted January 28, 2002 20:43 quote: Originally posted by MajorBarcalow: Insest is ok when it is for love but not lust. And babies being born by two cousins or brothers and a sister or a mother and son or not bad. They are normal and smart and think like us fine. There is no sin in loving a girlfriend in my family. Did you and your cousin actually reconcile yourselves to one another in a sexual / romantic manner already?
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 28, 2002 21:00 Major, there are many reasons why incest is wrong. I'd love to get into it right now, but I'm at work. Lets just say, that in not one single case is intergenerational incest "love". It is abuse.
MajorBarcalow Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 28, 2002 21:19 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: Major, there are many reasons why incest is wrong. I'd love to get into it right now, but I'm at work. Lets just say, that in not one single case is intergenerational incest "love". It is abuse. No. Insest is wrong if BOTH people are not in love. They BOTH have to be in love or if only one wants to kiss the other one and makes her do it then it is like you said and abuse. Then it IS wrong. It has to be ok for everybody.
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 28, 2002 23:03 The problem Major is that all family members should already love each other without the pretense of sexual contact. Young people are very impressionable, and are easily persuaded to become targets of sexual abuse. Older people take advantage of their trust, and lack of experience, and use them for sexual pleasure. Since you can never tell if the relationship IS "love" or simply abuse, it can never be permitted (except in those weird "separated at birth" things.) I'm sure you love your mother, and that she loves you. Would it have been right for her to have had sex with you when you were 12 years old?
Crewman6 Captain	posted January 28, 2002 23:11 ^Maybe that's why the Major still lives with his mother....
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 28, 2002 23:19 I wouldn't go that far, but there is something abusive in their relationship...
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted January 28, 2002 23:29 Incest between Mother and Son is FAR worse than Incest between Cousin and Cousin. ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated.
Fedykin Captain	posted January 28, 2002 23:47 quote: Originally posted by Andor: The presence of lethal recessives genes that can be shared between near relatives, is what gives high probability of a non-viable offspring in the interbreeding among close family. A practical known of this fact originated the apparition of a taboo against incest practices. If you have a completely healthy genetic program, there would be no biological problem that you breed with a clone of yourself of the opposite sex. This is the argument of a Lazarus Long novel by Heinlein. [This message has been edited by Andor (edited January 26, 2002).] Exactly, when it comes to genetics, diversity is key. The more you mate with a person of similar genes, the more of these recesive traits become thrown into the mix. After a while, you begin to get more and more offspring who carry these traits on both homologous chromosomes, this means that these genetric defects come to the surface. Genetics is a number game, and the less in common (genetically) you have with your mate, the better. ------------------ Without order, notihing can survive. Without chaos, nothing can evolve.
shootER Captain	posted January 28, 2002 23:47 Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt were cousins (although they were something like fourth, fifth, or sixth cousins).
MajorBarcalow Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 28, 2002 23:51 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: I wouldn't go that far, but there is something abusive in their relationship... Oh really? So your thinking you know me? YOUR WRONG! TOTALY! I"M NOT ABUSIVE ON ANYONE! But youre half right in insest. Yes. It would maybe be bad if children did it and love SHOULD be in familys. But sometimes there's love enough to make cousins or brother and sisters or fathers and daughters or sons and mothers to be in more love. If both are ok, then its good. It's nobody's busness but the familys and God. Sometimes in some famlilys those are the only girls and the only good ones you know. I said this before. If they are willing then it is good and no sin. But you don't know me to say I am abusing no one!!!
MajorBarcalow Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 28, 2002 23:57 quote: Originally posted by Seven Of Nine: *Incest between Mother and Son* is [b]FAR** worse than Incest between Cousin and Cousin. [/B] Oh really? HOW? It depends in the son and mother and the cousin and the cousin. Sometimes if when the mother is young like sixten when the baby is being born then when the baby is a grown up man and sixteen then the mom is still to be only thirty two. She is being twice his age old. They can still have alot in common and she will seem like another grl and young and even pretty. If they are in love, kissing is up to thier busness.
Pete Commander	posted January 28, 2002 23:59 quote: Originally posted by MajorBarcalow: Oh really? HOW? It depends in the son and mother and the cousin and the cousin. Sometimes if when the mother is young like sixten when the baby is being born then when the baby is a grown up man and sixteen then the mom is still to be only thirty two. She is being twice his age old. They can still have alot in common and she will seem like another grl and young and even pretty. If they are in love, kissing is up to thier busness. Good point, but you still didn't answer my question yet: Did you and your cousin reconcile yourselves to one another in a sexual / romantic manner?
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted January 29, 2002 00:02 quote: Originally posted by MajorBarcalow: Oh really? HOW? It depends in the son and mother and the cousin and the cousin. Sometimes if when the mother is young like sixten when the baby is being born then when the baby is a grown up man and sixteen then the mom is still to be only thirty two. She is being twice his age old. They can still have alot in common and she will seem like another grl and young and even pretty. If they are in love, kissing is up to thier busness. If i ever had a son..Id never think about having sex with my little boy once he grew old enough to produce semen..That is child abuse at it's worse.. ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated.
Starfleet Medical Commander	posted January 29, 2002 00:05 When there are only a few people left on Earth and they are all your cousins.
MajorBarcalow Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 29, 2002 00:30 quote: Originally posted by Pete: Good point, but you still didn't answer my question yet: Did you and your cousin reconcile yourselves to one another in a sexual / romantic manner? I ignore personel questions and I don't answer them because then it is bringing on jokes and insults. But to answer you, my mother and my aunt were fighting and then I'm not alowed to see her anymore but that's is ok because she is a liar and lied to me and lead me on. So I don't care.
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 29, 2002 00:36 Major: I would never accuse you of abusing anyone. Now figure it out...
Duster Fleet Captain	posted January 30, 2002 01:43 He does serve to remind us why close relatives should not have sex and have children together.
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 30, 2002 01:48 Having since my earlier response received information that the Major isn't for real, I withdraw all previous concerns. He's an old friend. Knowing his previous personna, I do believe him to be a virgin!
Borgs8472 Captain	posted January 30, 2002 01:52 hijacks thread It could be perfectly accpetable in a future with strict planned fertility for all that brother sister relationships would be fine... Anyhow, I'm "against" incest myself, but remember, it's a cultural/genetic dominant thing, rather than a genetics for it's own sake.
Trent_Roman Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 30, 2002 04:50 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: I'm sure you love your mother, and that she loves you. Would it have been right for her to have had sex with you when you were 12 years old? I'd say having sex with a twelve year old isn't acceptable under any condition, regardless of whether he's your son or not. As far as I'm concerned on the incest issue: consenting adults are free to have sex or even love together regardless of the family ties they may have. I'd certainly advise against producing offspring in the chance of the genetic abnormalities eloquently explained above, but given the advances in genetic medicine, even that point may be moot in half-a-century or so. Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted January 30, 2002 10:47 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: Having since my earlier response received information that the Major isn't for real, I withdraw all previous concerns. He's an old friend. Knowing his previous personna, I do believe him to be a virgin! Tell ous TheMaster Who is The Major?? inquiring Minds want to know! ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated. [This message has been edited by Seven Of Nine (edited January 30, 2002).]
TheMaster Rear Admiral	posted January 30, 2002 10:54 Can't 7/9, I was told by another user. I do not believe, that given the amazing vocabulary that he has (and the odd spelling that sometimes is picture perfect, sometimes skewed), that he is developmentally retarded. He's got us all over for a laugh.
stueyross Lieutenant	posted January 30, 2002 16:43 quote: Originally posted by TheMaster: Can't 7/9, I was told by another user. I do not believe, that given the amazing vocabulary that he has (and the odd spelling that sometimes is picture perfect, sometimes skewed), that he is developmentally retarded. He's got us all over for a laugh. Hey the guys funny. Personally I enjoy almost every post he makes, especially if you add a nice southern drawl to his posts Stu
the Dagman Lieutenant	posted January 30, 2002 17:39 The definition of "virgin" in the south: A girl who can run faster than all of her brothers.
cap'nquirk Lt. Cmdr.	posted January 30, 2002 19:12 ...ask Mewa. He has sex with his Mom ala de time...
Crewman6 Captain	posted January 31, 2002 00:33 Just to keep the disturbing speculation alive: Barky says in another thread that, as punishment for coming home late, she "locked him out of her bedroom." Boy, this just keeps getting creepier... By the way, capn'quirk should be warned for his above flame....just my 2 cents...
Clare Commander	posted January 31, 2002 01:02 Of course everyone is related to everone. How would that not be possible..and there has been a lot of marrying with in families, too...Think about it... one generation..2 people..if NO ONE is at all related, then : 2 parents 4 grandparents 8 great grandparents 16 great great grandparents 32 greatgreatgreat 64 great great great great 128 great great great great great 256 great great great great great great 512 great........ 1024 2048..... 4096...8192....16384....32768...65536.... 131072... 262144...524288...1048576.... 2097152....4194304......8388608....16777216 only 24 generations back...thats...24*25(years in a generation.) thats only 600 years back. now....say we're going back 6000 years, a date that at least most people will agree occurred. 6000/25...thats 240 generations.. 2^ 240 = 1,7668,470,650,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 distinct people would have been alive for no one in your family to have married some one they are related to within the last 6000 years. we're all one big happy family :->
Seven Of Nine Commander	posted February 01, 2002 19:30 quote: Originally posted by Clare: Of course everyone is related to everone. How would that not be possible..and there has been a lot of marrying with in families, too...Think about it... one generation..2 people..if NO ONE is at all related, then : 2 parents 4 grandparents 8 great grandparents 16 great great grandparents 32 greatgreatgreat 64 great great great great 128 great great great great great 256 great great great great great great 512 great........ 1024 2048..... 4096...8192....16384....32768...65536.... 131072... 262144...524288...1048576.... 2097152....4194304......8388608....16777216 only 24 generations back...thats...2425(years in a generation.) thats only 600 years back. now....say we're going back 6000 years, a date that at least most people will agree occurred. 6000/25...thats 240 generations.. 2^ 240 = 1,7668,470,650,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 distinct people would have been alive for no one in your family to have married some one they are related to within the last 6000 years. we're all one big happy family :->* Confusing... ------------------ I am Seven of Nine.Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-One. Formerly of the Borg Collective.I Require Perfection and Efficiency Those who cannot provide these Facilities will be Assimilated.
Ryan Lieutenant	posted February 03, 2002 11:36 quote: Originally posted by The.Kaalar!: Can I have sex with my cousin's cousin? As long as she's not your sister.
malonga Commander	posted February 03, 2002 15:07 Homo Faber by Max Frisch. It's a book abou t a man who doesn't believe fortuities, but his plane crashes somewhere on the amrican continent, where he got to know a wonderful woman who he seems to fall in live with. Later he finds out thath this woman is his daughter.

All times are UTC (GMT)	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Beam to:

Contact Us | http://www.treknation.com/


		Main

- The Trek BBS
- Edit Profile
- Register
- Preferences

- FAQ
- Board Rules
- Top 50
- Search
- Warnings/Bans

- Contact Form

- Moderators
- Contact Info
- Disclaimer


		Episodes


		Headlines


		Nation

- Trek Nation

- TrekToday

- Trek BBS
- German BBS

- ST: Hypertext
- The J-Team

All posts are the property of the poster. All other original content copyright � 1999-2002 by the Trek Nation and Christian H�hne Sparborth. The Trek Nation and its subsidiary sites are in no way affiliated with Paramount Pictures, Inc. Star Trek �, in all its various forms, is a trademark of Paramount Pictures. All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective holders. Please read the extended copyright notice.