The 50-Year Hoffman-Hackman History
By JENNIFER SENIOR

Published: October 12, 2003



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ONG before they'd made the acquaintance of Warren Beatty and Mike Nichols,
and long before they'd won enough Oscars and Golden Globes to play a nice
game of chess, Gene Hackman and Dustin Hoffman were a mismatched pair
of struggling, idealistic actors who found solace in each other's company —
first in classes at the Pasadena Playhouse in 1956, where they played bongos
on the roof, and then later in a cold-water flat in Manhattan, where Mr. Hoffman
crashed in Mr. Hackman's kitchen until he was banished to the couch of some
unwitting dupe named Robert Duvall. Though Mr. Hackman and Mr. Hoffman
(now 73 and 66, respectively) have been friends for nearly half a century, they
never worked on a film together until "Runaway Jury," the latest installment in
the John Grisham franchise. On a recent publicity stop in New Orleans for the
film, opening Friday, the two men met with the writer Jennifer Senior to reminisce,
gossip and reveal Marlon Brando's secret weapon.

JENNIFER SENIOR When you two met at the Pasadena Playhouse, there must
have been something about each other you intuited immediately. What was it?
GENE HACKMAN Yeah, I've thought about that. (Looking at Hoffman) You were a
little different. Most of the kids there were right out of high school. I was older. And
you were 18 or 19, but the first time I saw you, you were in a, uh, a corduroy vest.
And that's all.
DUSTIN HOFFMAN Pants!
HACKMAN But just a corduroy vest. No shirt or anything. And I thought, "This is
a weird looking little guy."
HOFFMAN I have no memory of this.
HACKMAN I only went one year ——
HOFFMAN Three months! He got kicked out for not having any talent.
HACKMAN We used to get graded on a scale of 1 to 10 for movement,
interpretation, gestures ——
HOFFMAN Attitude.
HACKMAN Attitude.
HOFFMAN Voice projection, which you always failed. So they kicked him out.
But I was shocked, because he was still picked to be on their main stage.
HACKMAN But only because I was older, you know? In a play called "The
Curious Miss Caraway."
HOFFMAN And guess who starred in it?
HACKMAN Zasu Pitts, a woman from the silent film era.
HOFFMAN And one day, he says to me, "You have to come onstage with me
during the daytime. You're not going to believe this." Written on the back of the
couches and the stuffed chairs and everything were ——
HACKMAN Zasu Pitts's lines.
HOFFMAN She'd flit over to a certain chair for a certain line . . . (he gets up and
demonstrates, as if reading.)
HACKMAN She was about 75, 80 years old.
HOFFMAN Of course, we understand that at our age. Brando has it down pat: he
wears a hearing aid that you can't see, and a woman by the name of Caroline,
who's off the set, feeds him his lines. Each one. Matthew Broderick told me he
didn't know this when he did "The Freshman" with Brando. He told me that on his
first day, he was sitting in his dorm on the edge of his bed, and Brando was on
the other bed, and they were facing each other, and he was so intimidated —
Marlon Brando! So they started the take, and he's talking, and Brando answers,
and then he talks some more, and Brando answers, and the camera's rolling, and
Brando keeps looking at Matthew, and suddenly, he says: "Caroline? Caroline!
Are you eating a tuna fish sandwich right now? Caroline? Because I can't understand
what you're saying! Stop eating that tuna fish sandwich!"
HACKMAN (doubled over) Now that's funny.
SENIOR When you two were living together, were you especially competitive with
each other? You both had your breakout films in 1967, which probably helped ——
HOFFMAN Do you know why? Did you know that he was Mr. Robinson, originally,
in "The Graduate"? And he got fired. That's how he got into "Bonnie and Clyde."
Warren found out he was available.
SENIOR Did you land him the role in "The Graduate"?
HOFFMAN No. I had nothing to do with it. I would have done everything in my power
to not have him in it. I didn't want to be upstaged.
SENIOR Why were you fired from "The Graduate"?
HACKMAN Probably because I hadn't committed to the character. I just wasn't
showing them what could happen.
HOFFMAN Gene believes in holding off for as long as you can before you commit.
So that when you commit, it's not a conscious choice; it comes out on its own.
And that scares a lot of producers and directors.
HACKMAN We were both jealous of Bobby Duvall, because he got the work very
early on, whereas I was in New York seven or eight years before I got a professional
job. And you were even longer, right?
HOFFMAN Yes. It's a freak accident that we, all three of us, made it. Gene went on
auditions many times and put his 8-by-10 glossy underneath the door, knocked
once and ran.
SENIOR Was that effective?
HOFFMAN Yes. It saved him a lot of pain of rejection.
HACKMAN To this day, I do the same relaxation exercises I was taught in acting
class in 1956 or whenever it was.
SENIOR What are they?
HOFFMAN Think of your best sexual experience.
SENIOR That's relaxing?
HACKMAN You sit in a chair like that (he composes himself) and you ask yourself:
"I've been up for 48 hours. I have to sleep in this chair. Where can I find the best
position to be in the chair?" And once you do that, you start examining where you're
holding on. Starting at your toes and working right up through your body. And then,
when you get up, strangely enough, a lot of those things leave. It's Zen-like.
 
 
HOFFMAN There was a book of interviews with women I once read. About the
differences between men, women, sex. And this one woman said: "When men
have sex, they're built to do it — it's in their DNA. But women have to feel like
there's someone there who's going to catch them when they let go." And when
you act in a movie, you have to feel that there's someone there who's going to
catch you. Because you're not in control in the cutting room. And I think that's
what Gene was talking about — we're holding on. We're not going to have an
orgasm in front of the camera unless we're relaxed.
 
(Silence.)
 
SENIOR O.K. I'm derailed.
 
HOFFMAN I know. Say the word "orgasm," and everyone's head goes blank.
 
SENIOR Like shaking an Etch-a-Sketch. But O.K. Did you two rehearse with
each other? And give each other advice about certain roles?
 
HOFFMAN We don't see each other that much, and that includes Duvall and
everything. You just have different lives. Though there may be some other, visceral
reason we don't hang around together, which is that it would take us back to the
real truth: I'm still waiting on tables, and he's still moving furniture.
 
HACKMAN Yeah. Like, "When are they going to find out about us?"
 
HOFFMAN When we did our scene together in "Runaway Jury," it was the last day
of shooting. And one of the things Gene said when we had drinks afterward — do
you remember? — was, "Do you always think, after you finish a movie, that no one
will ever give you a job again?"
 
SENIOR Is that right? Your confidence is no better now?
 
HACKMAN Well, no, but it's kind of like an old friend in a funny way. You just kind
of get used to it.
 
SENIOR Do you think it would have been possible to have the same careers if you
were starting out today? Given who gets work and what most scripts are like?
 
HACKMAN I couldn't have had mine.
 
HOFFMAN I think . . . I know there are certain actors, I don't want to invade their
privacy, who have had really good lives. Regional actors. At the Seattle Rep, say.
And you know, that would have been us. And it would have been great.


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