Below is an example of one of the interviews conducted by Susan Kelly
in the Fells Acres investigation. She was the only investigator that
videotaped any interviews. I am not sure how old the child is [my guess
four]. It is
clear that she had been interviewed before this. Although the child
made no disclosures concerning Fells Acres, over a half a year later
when she was led through the school she claimed that Tookie (Gerald
Amirault) touched her and came out of the second floor bathroom
dressed as a clown. When asked to identify the magic room, she pointed
to the second floor front left room.)
I transcribed most of this from the videotape myself. A few
sections were filled in from transcripts quoted by Jay Lindsay's
article in the Malden Observer [Feb. 16, 1995].
Q You go to school.
A Yes
Q What's the name of your school.
A But I goto a Tooky school.
Q Oh. How was the Tooky school?
A Good.
Q Did you like it there?
A Yes. THat is my mother,
Q So you went to a Tooky School
A That's my school.
Q The Tooky school's your school?
A Yes
Q Do you know the name of the Tooky School.
A No. I don't know.
Q Did mommy tell you that's why you came here today. To play with me. To
talk to me about the Tooky school.
A Yeh.
Q Oh good.
A Yeh
Q That's great. I'll probably have a whole bunch of questions to ask.
Do you like to answer questions?
A Yeh.
...
Q I've been talking to a lot of the children who went to the Tooky school.
They've been coming to see me, to talk to me.
...
Q Do you want to draw a picture of Tooky for me
A (inaudible)
Q I'll give you a piece of paper and you can try?
[Susan Kelly asks the girl to name some teachers, she says she doesn't
remember]
Q You remember Tooky?
A Yes.
Q Was Tooky a teacher?
A Yes. The clown scared me over at the clown school.
Q What'd the clown do to scare you?
A Nothing. When I was on his lap I was happy.
Q You were on the clown's lap.
A Yes.
Q Wow
A And I was going to be happy on the clown's lap.
Q Were you scared or happy?
A Scared and I was going to be happy.
Q You were scared? Why? What did the clown do?
A He did not give me no shots?
Q He didn't give you what?
A No shots. No.
Q Well who gave you shots.
A Nobody
Q Well how do you know about shots?
...
Q You sat on the clowns lap and you were scared?
A And I was happy.
Q What room were you in when you sat on the clowns lap?
A I don't' know[softly]. [pause] I don't know.
Q Do you remember the name of the room?
A It was at my house the clown came to my house.
Q Oh. The clown came to your house.
A Yeh.
Q Ah-ha. Do you know the clown's name.
A [nothing]
Q Do you remember the clown's name?
A I don't.
Q Ah, did you ever see a clown at the Tooky school?
A [interrupting] Can you draw my name?[hard to piece this together. Through
out this section of the interview the child has been playing with magic
markers. Earlier parts of the interview involved Susan Kelly writing the
child's name.]
Q Did you ever see a clown at the Tooky school?
A No.
Q You never saw a clown at Fells Acres?
A [nothing]
...
Q You still did not tell me why you were scared sitting on the clown's lap?
A [inaudible].
...
Q Did the clown look like this? [holding clown doll]
A Yes.
Q Was he a good clown or a bad clown that you saw?
A He wasn't bad.
Q He wasn't? Do you think this clown is bad?
A No.
... [and playing with the clown doll. the girl is interested in how the
doll squeaks.]
Q Did you ever see a bad clown?
A No.
[After a certain point, Susan Kelly makes the girl cap all of the markers
and she starts showing the girl a frontal picture of a nude girl. She asks
the girl the names of the parts. After the girl names the vagina "bum-bum"
she says she has no name for that part (Susan suggests the names vagina and
privates]
Q. Did anybody ever touch your belly button?
A No.
Q Did anybody ever touch your nose?
A No.
Q I did.
A [giggles]
Q touch your nose.
A ...
Q How about this part right here [points to the vagina in the drawing] ?
You want your nose back? O. K. Now you got your nose back. This part right here,
did anybody ever touch that on you?
A No.
Q I'm going to show you what that looks like on the doll.
[Susan Kelly undresses the doll and goes over the doll parts, having the
girl give the names of the parts.]
Q See this part her on the girl, like where you go to the bathroom. Did
anybody ever touch that part on you?
A No.
Q No? WOuld you tell me if they did?
A No. I don't want to.
Q You don't want to tell me.
A No.
Q You can help me.
A Can I write that?
Q No You can write help me if you told me if anyone touched [it appears
Susan Kelly made a slip of the tongue here and corrected herself.]
A I want to write a letter.
Q O. K., but after we talk. Now I want you to help me. Would you be afraid
to tell me if somebody touched you there?
A [shakes head back and forth with both hands on the side, definite shakes,
several complete shakes of the head.]
Q Then why won't you tell me?
A I don't want to. I don't want to tell you.
Q Would you tell Ernie? [picks up Ernie puppet and puts it on her hand]
A No.
Q Ah come on [pleading tone in voice]. Please tell Ernie. Please tell me.
Please tell me. So we could help you. Please. Ernie[this could have been
"mommy" would be so happy if. So would Burt. Please tell me. Tell Burt.
You whisper it to Ernie, alright... [I may have mangled some parts of this
as many of the sentences were very fast.]
A My teacher [giggling]
Q Your teacher. Tell her which teacher while Susan's not looking. Which
teacher?
A Tracy.
Q Oh Was Tracy a teacher? [I don't believe Fells Acres had a Tracy, this must
be a Tracy at the new school]
A Yes.
Q And were did she touch you.
A My hands.
Q See this part here [of course we know where Kelly is pointing]?
A Yeh.
A ON the girl doll.
A Yeh.
Q Did anybody ever touch you there?
A No.
Q Would you tell Ernie if they did?
A No.
Q Tell Ernie..
...
Q You started to tell me before when you said a teacher touched you and
you didn't tell me which teacher touched you there. You want to tell Ernie?
You can whisper it.
A Kate. Kate touched me.[more giggles]
...
Q Where did she touch you?
A My hands.
Q Oh, but did anybody touch you right there? (points to vagina)
A No.
Q [pointing to the bum] Did anybody touch your bum?
A No.
Q Would you tell me if they did?
A No. [shaking head, laughing]
Q Would you tell Bert?
A They didn't touch me.
Q Who didn't touch you?
A Not my teacher. Nobody...
Q Did any big people, any adult, touch your bum there?
A No.
Q Anybody you didn't like?
A I want to play
....
[Using pictures of back of female]
Q Did anybody touch you there?
A I don't know.
Q You don't know. Try to remember for us... We can help ...
Did anybody touch XXX on her bum?
A Nobody. Nobody didn't do it.
Q Oh, do you think anybody touched the children on their bum?
A No.
Q Any other children?
A No.
Q What should I do if they did touch the children?
A (nothing)
Q What should I do if they did?
A Nobody didn't do it!
Q OK. Did anybody go to a secret room at Fells Acres?
A No.
Q No. Did ever go to a room called the magic room?
A No.
...
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