TUESDAY EVENING AOL CHAT
(SLIGHTLY EDITED VERSION)
CHAT MEMBERS: CARL (USA)
, IRIS (GERMANY),
KHALID (CANADA)
& FRANZ (VENEZUELA).
Topic:
LABOUR IN HISTORIC RETROSPECT;
CRADLE OF LABOUR IN AFRICA.
MAY 23, 2000
You have just entered room "panta98 Chat51."
ScnWrt has entered the room.
panta98:Hi! Carl!!!
ScnWrt:Hi, Franz
ScnWrt:Please
invite Iris
iiiiriiiis has entered
the room.
panta98:Yes, I will.
ScnWrt:Hi, Iris
iiiiriiiis:
Hi, Carl!
iiiiriiiis:
Hi, Franz!
iiiiriiiis:
Greetings to Jutta!
panta98:Hi! Iris!!
How are the "behaviourists"?
iiiiriiiis:
Hey community!!! How's Power?
iiiiriiiis:
Sorry, but I'm a little affected by this stuff I have to deal with ;-)
ScnWrt:I understand
panta98:Jutta sends greetings
to you all. She's immersed in Montesquieu and Voltaire, correcting all
the stuff about the stinking "niggers" about whom we'll chat today!
ScnWrt: Montescrew?
iiiiriiiis:well,
and the behaviourism... I applied it - I "behaved", Franz, don't worry
;-)
panta98: Did the "I love
you" viris, sorry, virus, also affect your "hard disk" directly?
iiiiriiiis: hahahah....
no comment now, Franz!
panta98:If so, please consult
Dr. Norton, or take a cafee with Macafee.
ScnWrt: Indirectly. had to
handle cyber-anxiety of others
ScnWrt:
Norton gave my PC excellent protection
panta98:Where are Khalid
& Steve?
iiiiriiiis:I
don't know, Franz - did you hear from Steve, did he reply? I only saw Khalids
message.
panta98:Our electricity
and telephone lines are very unstable today, please begin saving the manuscript!
iiiiriiiis:And
Jeff and Bill - lost in cyber space?
ScnWrt:I have ICQ open. Steve
is offline
ScnWrt:OK,
Franz
iiiiriiiis:ok,
will save the script, Franz
iiiiriiiis:Shall
we wait a few minutes more before you begin, Franz?
panta98: Neither plasticsmith
nor frogmobile are available.
iiiiriiiis:The
problem which I had with AOL the last few days was, that every few seconds
I was deconnected. "Hope" this won't happen tonight!
panta98:Yes, Khalid confirmed
his attendance. Perhaps, he still has to fetch his little niece, ready
for "baby-sitting".
panta98:Steve did not reply.
iiiiriiiis:Hopefully
he will join... did you see the video clips (the updated version)?
iiiiriiiis:I
had no time till yet, will do so later.
panta98:Yes, I sent it to
all. Did you look at the clips on wbuzz.com?
ScnWrt:Iris, also see the Don
Albert video clips on the same page
iiiiriiiis:Franz,
leider till now I couldn't. Saw the first one on wbuzz.com
iiiiriiiis:I
surely will, Carl!
frogmobile has entered
the room.
frogmobile:
Hi there
iiiiriiiis:Hello,
Khalid! Buenas noches!
ScnWrt: Please keep in mind
that the URL is http://www.wbuzz.com/
ScnWrt:Hi,
Khalid
iiiiriiiis:Yes,
Carl
panta98:Carl, Khalid &
Iris, did you get the HTML: International Illuminati Conspiracy "Global
Cup" : Guyana versus Venezuela (Referee: USA) ?
frogmobile: Buenas
noches! Iris
ScnWrt:Yes!
frogmobile:hello
Carl
panta98:Hi! Khalid!!!
frogmobile:Hi
Fatboy!
iiiiriiiis:Yes!
I got it and enjoed the debate! Mostly interesting analysis.
panta98:Well, before I tumble
and fall, let's begin! Steve may join later.
iiiiriiiis:And
how's the power over there in Canada? Everything fine with the community,
Khalid?
ScnWrt: Recently, Prince Charles
visited Guayana, and promised financial help. Connected to Beal Deal?
frogmobile:No
the community is in perpetual WAR against the ruling class.
frogmobile:That's
interesting Carl, Where did you get that information from?
panta98:If I should fall
offline, due to electricity or telephone crash, just wait for me in the
same chat room, and invite me back. It's highly probable that I'll disappear
in cyberspace quite a few times.
ScnWrt:CBS-TV
iiiiriiiis:
ok, Franz
ScnWrt:OK, Franz
frogmobile:Okay!
was it recently?
ScnWrt:Recently.
ScnWrt:Khalid, it was several
weeks ago. Try BBC site.
frogmobile:Okay
I will.
panta98:When you're ready,
guys, I'll begin. Give me a smoke signal. Oh! I forgot: No Smoking!!!
frogmobile: Okay!
I will have a look at their website.
ScnWrt:Puff away, Franz
iiiiriiiis:Well,
smoke signal given, Franz
frogmobile: Here
comes the water!
iiiiriiiis:... and
forget about the no smoking, my dear!
panta98:As usual, before we get down to "intellectual business", let us clarify some vital issues. Last time, we tried to apprehend Physical Labour. Now, let's briefly place Intellectual Labour in historical focus. But, firstly, what do we understand by intellectus or Verstand? .
panta98:Please pardon me
today, for being so explanatory, so introductory, it's important. I have
"good" emancipatory reasons
ScnWrt:Intellectual labor=alienation=mind
control
iiiiriiiis:
In your introduction last Tuesday, you showed, that Intellect...
iiiiriiiis: ... is
the other side of the coin, the central relation we are dealing with, Labour
- physical and intellectual labor...
panta98: Furthermore, a
short note on our general philosophic endeavour. Extensively and intensively,
over the decades, we have studied seriously Democracy, Foreign Policy,
Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Revolutions, the Frankfurter School, Elementary
Physics, Mathematics,.... Economics, History, Religion, Literature, Poetry,
Languages, etc., ...
panta98: Since donkey years,
we have read whatever we found of scientific, philosophic or emancipatory
interest; we have studied Philosophy, Politics, Psychology, Sociology,
etc.
frogmobile has left
the room.
panta98:Waiting for Khalid!!!
panta98:Khalid is not available
.... a "good" start!!!
ScnWrt:Franz, frogmobile is
offline on my AOL
panta98: OK, Carl. ... With
unbiased, scientific innocence, with open-minded preparedness to learn,
with restless, philosophic expectations, we tried to unravel, to interpenetrate
the profound caverns of knowledge, of truth and wisdom, listening to anything,
to anybody, who had something to contribute, to reveal.
iiiiriiiis:caramba...
ScnWrt:Perhaps Khalid was disconnected
panta98:Anyhow, he can read
backward, later, when we send him the complete chat!
panta98: To continue. ....
What is published on our Home Pages, and what is being illustrated in our
chats, are the disturbing results of stringent, serious deliberations.
iiiiriiiis:This
was precisely the problem I had, Carl and Franz as I told you a few minutes
ago
panta98:And now? Lenin:
What Is To Be Done?
ScnWrt:Intellectual labor ,Bull-Scheisse,
defined the comic book character Superman - truth, justice and the American
way.
iiiiriiiis:Franz,
Khalid seems to be re-connected...invite him please.
panta98:Khalid will come
just now!
panta98:We cannot supply
the data, the facts, the literature, the statistics, which after decades
of investigation, study and analysis had led to such radical, dramatic,
innovative, emancipatory conclusions. ....
panta98:This must go on the record once and for all. Many people, for whatever reason, may not be able to follow us; others may condemn us, may declare us to be totally crazy; we understand these outbursts, in fact, we expect them, and we nurture no "bad" feelings towards any person concerning this delicate issue.
panta98:Now, let's move on. Please, be patient, our task is extremely difficult, diverse and controversial; exactly because it concerns thinking itself, in-itself, which exists extremely complicated and complex. Thus, warm up your "thinking motor", launch your belligerent "think tank".
panta98: Concerning the "problem"
of scientific verification and "proof" of our asseverations,
I'll just quote Maria Fedulova, a leader
of the Soldiers' Mothers' Committee accusing Moscow of
giving weird figures concerning the number of
casualties during the War in Chechyna:
"There are no statistics in this country, there are only lies and big lies."
Where else is it different?
iiiiriiiis: Proceed, Franz!
[Subject:
Date:
Tue,
23 May 2000 19:53:02 -0400
From:
"Khalid
Ali" <kh9syl@sprint.ca>
To:
"Prof.
Dr. Franz J.T. Lee / Jutta Schmitt, M.A." <franzjutta@cantv.net>
I am having problems making the connection.
Khalid. ]
panta98:I invited Khalid,
he's online, and yet still has some problems.
panta98:The introduction
will be lengthy, it needs some necessary explanations, and some relevant
details. Sit back, relax, and don't run away so soon again!!!!
ScnWrt:Proceed
iiiiriiiis::-)
panta98:Iris, take a German
Pilzener or a Jasmin Tea! Carl, take Matte!
ScnWrt:8-)
iiiiriiiis:
Tea
and cigarettes at hand, Franz
panta98:Let me check the
post!
iiiiriiiis:ok
panta98:No, no Khalid!!!
I'll continue.
ScnWrt:Me Buenos Aires Querido
(Carlos Gardel)
ScnWrt:Proceed,
Franz
panta98:Also, a chat is not a lecture, is not a scientific treatise. By its very nature, it's fragmentary, incomplete. But, it always preserves a central "red thread", and does not simply vanish into zillions of irrelevant, chaotic nothingnesses.
panta98:Intellect, as we understand this Concept, concerns our Diagory: Rest a n d Motion, is a "contradiction". It has two sides which are inter-related, it exists as Act a n d Thought. It belongs to Essence a n d Existence, hence, it is Concrete a n d Abstract.
panta98:Exactly, because Intellect is Concrete, it can be exploited economically; precisely, because it exists Abstract, which exists always as Concrete a n d Abstract, it can be perverted into Labour, into Profits, into Capital. It can be dominated, domesticated and controlled.
panta98:Iris & Carl,
do you follow until now?
iiiiriiiis:yes,
Franz
panta98:OK! Furthermore,
Motion, as we understand this term, exists as Rest a n d Motion, it's two
sides; it is varietal, variegated, diversified.
ScnWrt:Yes. Also Rest and Motion
are tools used to exploit intellectual labor
panta98:Now the issue gets
complicated.
panta98:One variant is Space-Time Motion, another is Unequal and Combined Development, another is Quantitative and Qualitative Change, another is Latent and Tendential Transformation, etc. In the latter cases, by no means, ONLY spatial-temporal parameters are of quintexistential importance.
panta98:Please note the various ways of "measuring" and "determining" Change, Movement, Progress, Change.
panta98:Hence, Thinking and Thought, Mind Relations, Act and Intellect, are very complex and complicated. Not everything, not anything, is necessarily thinking. Billions on this planet, either never thought, or if at all, very seldom ever have activated and intellectualized their mental capacities in a "lifetime".
panta98:Any direct remarks? Any questions?
iiiiriiiis:not
yet, Franz
ScnWrt:Franz, thinking is resisting
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Princple.
Carl, thinking affirms it, then negates it, then affirms and negates it, then, neither affirms nor negates it, etc., etc. ... Now, just imagine, billions, including the lords, waterlords, overlords and warlords, even The Lord Himself, just EITHER affirm OR negate this principle, or any other one. This is defence of Labour, of the Global System! You'll find this situation at every street corner, in every Internet Chat, except ours!
panta98: Well. we'll proceed.
... Not that the "people" do or did not have this ontic gift, simply, they
never had the opportunity to enjoy this poliversal, ontic, authentic pleasure.
Exploitation, Domination, Discrimination, Dehumanization, in a nut-shell,
EDDD, just "nipped them in the bud".
ScnWrt:EDDD=mind
control.
panta98:Yes, Carl. A basic
term to understand our "fatherland".
panta98:This is one of the most heinous crimes ever committed by Labour and it's concomitant planetary system. However, this is not "good" or "bad", "correct" or "false", it is no moral or religious accusation. It's simply one of those bare-faced everyday truths. It's a fact, with which "mankind" had lived for millennia, ...
panta98: ... and with which it will perish somewhen, somewhere, somehow, somewhither, within the next millennia.
panta98:Anyhow, returning to our topic, after millennia of "human sacrifice", there are, as a minimum, two major mental faculties left -- that is, if we leave aside some subordinate abilities, like intuition, belief, foresight, etc. -- and they are: Intellect and Reason.
panta98:As indicated before,
they exist as Relations -- in other words, they exist variegated, many-sided.
Over the last millennia, only an infinitesimal capacity of our mental functions
have been "socialized", been "developed", or rather "perverted".
And precisely by the alienated essence of Labour, by EDDD.
iiiiriiiis:ok
panta98:Now, ... Emancipation
concerns the recovery of these dormant faculties, or, if still possible,
their repair. But, please, please, not by means of "education", "conscientization",
"mobilization", "organization", "democratization", of the "masses", etc.
iiiiriiiis:...or
community power...
panta98:Or, do you disagree
with me?
iiiiriiiis:totally
agreed, Franz
panta98:Black Power! Power
to the Soviets! Flower Power!!
ScnWrt:Agree, Franz
panta98:Surely, ... It's
a waste of precious "Space and Time". These are strychnine to any thought
process, fatal ideology, lethal mind and thought control. We've had enough
already of this "our daily bread", of "Our Father", of this mortal panacea,
of these ritalinized tomatoes, of these ritualized potatoes, of mind vaccines.
panta98:Did you have supper
already, Iris? Did you visit McDonald?
iiiiriiiis: no,
Linseneintopf.
panta98:Similarly, only
certain Acts were "officialized", "normed", "naturalized", rather "maimed",
in the process of the exploitation of Nature, to serve the Needs and Interests
of Man. Why always walk upright? On two legs?
ScnWrt:Salad from my garden
frogmobile has entered
the room.
panta98:That's it,
Carl. Hi! Khalid again!
iiiiriiiis:hello
again, Khalid
ScnWrt:Walking upright enabled
humans to be predators.
ScnWrt:Hi,
Khalid
frogmobile:
Sorry Guys Sprint Canada is having a party and I am outside watching the
fun without a chance of shaking my legs
panta98:Khalid, for
you, I'll repeat the last message.
panta98:Similarly, only certain Acts were "officialzed", "normed", "naturalized", rather "maimed", in the process of the exploitation of Nature, to serve the Needs and Interests of Man. Why always walk upright? On two legs? So Khalid, you are "watching the fun without a chance of shaking your two legs."
frogmobile:Hello again to every body!
panta98:Why not "walk" sometimes on four, or make permanent sommersaults, whenever we so wish? It would be great fun, free flex appeal, natural aerobics, delightful entrechat, emancipatory fitness! Not sickening "Fitness America", but sickfree Fitness History. As "babies", we loved to do it, why not "walk" on our hands?
panta98:Looking down at reality, at near and dear Mother Earth? Later more of this!
panta98:Until now, modern agriculture, industrial production, intellectual reproduction need a wage-slave, having his hands "free", his 'thumb" in action, who walks in upright gait! Soon, in space wage-slavery, "walking" will be altered again, will experience a neoglobal revolution, according to the necessities of NASA or Beal Aerospace.
ScnWrt:Walking upight on two legs enables us to work faster, more efficiently for the power elites.
panta98:Any comments? We're entering emancipatory, virgin soil and pastures.
panta98:Of course, to "work" faster. More about this later, Carl.
ScnWrt:We will float on planets with lower gravity.
panta98:The resultant labouring Frankenstein Creatures, produced across the patrian millennia, were called "scum of the earth", "savages", "natives", "apes and monkeys", "slaves", "speaking tools", "peasants", "coolies", "camel drivers", "barbarians", "niggers", "the yellow danger", "Jews", "foreigners", ...
ScnWrt: or float in space.
panta98:... "aliens", "the masses", "British subjects", "the Americans", "the lumpen-proletariat", "the working class", "women", "juvenile delinquents", etc.
frogmobile:But it is also a product of our own history through the process of labor that has "emancipated" us to develop our bodies physiscally to suit the needs of the task of survival.
panta98:Nowadays, the intellectual wage-slaves, the geneticists, engineers, scientists, managers, physicists, all are joining this sonorous labour crew, are boarding the Labour "Titanic", on its final voyage, on the icy Information Ocean of Globalization, of Intergalactic Entropy.
frogmobile:Through constant moving we developed greater flexibility and use of our limbs and legs.
panta98:Khalid, we're getting to your favourite hobby, your beloved topic of research.
panta98:Yes, Khalid. That's the idea. The ultima ratio for being able to LABOUR.
iiiiriiiis:research... please proceed gentlemen.
ScnWrt:Khalid, we can use these physical traits for emancipation.
panta98:So, we were born with Natural Acts and Acting, and they were progressively, across the ages, "naturalized" into Physical Labour; Thoughts and Thinking were "socialized" into Intellectual Labour, and excellent Reason and Reasoning were "desecrated" into Belief, Revelation, into Rationalization, Rationing, Rational Labour Power.
frogmobile:Ah!
Carl I am not sure anymore if we can.
frogmobile:Excellent
Franz
panta98:No we can't, Carl. ... Now there we have the three-fold, ugly, luciferean visage (mug) of Labour, of global "self-destruction", "self-defeatism" (Carl Zimmerman).
ScnWrt:Khalid, we can. First step is control our rest and motion.
frogmobile:Okay! explain a little bit more.
panta98: Agreed, Carl.Not only "control", Khalid. Be experts in the field, and to be much more, do much more, think much more, excel even much, much more.
ScnWrt:Agreed, Franz
panta98:Now, let's take a "backward", a closer, down-to-earth look at Man, at Homo, who arrogantly loves to elevate himself above "creation", who "thinks" that he is something very special, a rare divine product, the alpha and omega of all essence, existence and transcendence. ...
panta98:Let's look at him, within the context of his own spatial-temporal parameters, of His Story, of perverted History, in his Pre-History.
panta98:However, as explained before, don't forget that spatio-temporal motion, primitive, patrian reality, is only a negligible quantity in cosmic-ontic-transcendental mega-mensions, micro-domains and zilli-spheres. And, this is the only reality of which billions are "conscious". They vegetate in it, they perish in it. They defend it with their very lives.
iiiiriiiis:proceed, Franz,
panta98:Spatio-temporal, formal-logical reality reveals only infinitesimal, extremely limited crypto-levels of perception, reception, cognition and recognition -- it's really a pathetic medium to pursue knowledge, truth and wisdom; but, it is the cradle and grave of labour, of EDDD, of Godism and Satanism, of Parochialism and Globalism, of Capitalism and Illuminatism.
panta98:Any immediate, direct
comments? Or later in the chat, discussion period?
iiiiriiiis: a
pathetic medium, excellent, Franz!
panta98:Yes, Iris. ... Nevertheless,
let's find the "labouring man" in Pre-History; let's encounter the "Bad
Link", Labour. Engels called it the "missing link". What a pity that it
wasn't "missing" for all eternity!! We wouldn't have missed it at all!
ScnWrt:A mind control medium.
None of its components are contradictory
panta98:D'accord, Carl!
iiiiriiiis:Agreed!
panta98:Now, comes the interestingpart
of our chat!!!
panta98:Well, Humanity was looking for it's Cradle in Space and Time. In Time, man had to scrutinize some4.5 billion years, that is supposed to be the age of our Solar System. In Space, the Planet Earth wassufficient. Only Where and When!
panta98:Obviously, Great Britain, the cradle of great palaeontologists, prehistorians, ethnologists and geologists, had the first choice. The first great Englishman was the Sussex Man, the Boxgrove Man, who had lived there some 500 000 years ago. Well, the poor "creature" was besieged by some ferocious animals, probably leopards, and was voraciously devoured.
panta98:However, let's not knock this prehistoric gentleman; he doesn't qualify as an archaic, archetypical Adam.C.G. Jung would not have been fascinated by him at all. After all, the Neanderthal-Jung did not specifically like the British islanders. Then the Peking Man, Asian Homo erectus commited cradle-snatching, but not for too long.
panta98:Do you agree, Carl?
ScnWrt:Agreed. Today, there'll
always be an England as long as there's an American dollar
panta98:Iris, still there?
On a "Good Trip" to Africa?
panta98:Khalid, Baby-Sitting
the small monkeys?
iiiiriiiis:(Franz:
'cradle-snatching'?)
frogmobile:No
I am babying setting myself for a change
iiiiriiiis:sure,
still there, Franz
panta98:Yes, Iris, that's
me!!!
iiiiriiiis: In
german, please...
panta98:Jutta will "snatch"
you soon!!!
iiiiriiiis: schnappen
oder was??
frogmobile:Lovely
abut interesting comment Iris, he has tried to teach me how to but man.....!
panta98:Iris, ja, schnappen,
it simply means that a lady of 80, marries a young handsome man of 18!
iiiiriiiis: ach
so...
iiiiriiiis: ok,
proceed ;-)
frogmobile:Ha!
Ha!
panta98:Now, getting back to the Leakeys!
panta98:Louis had a grievous problem: how to distuinguish an ape from a man? That a man makes noises, gestures, even speaks, all these were not enough for a differentia especifica. The essence of man,as Friedrich Engels had already indicated in the 19th century, is the key, the "missing link"; in other words, Labour or Work, Physical ...
panta98: ...and Intellectual Labour; in nuce, human production and reproduction.
ScnWrt:Reproduction to produce more workers.
panta98:To reproduce, something else enters this manly process: memory, mental faculties, intellectual activity, technique and technology. Thus, from the point go, Labour had a Janus-face: A physical and intellectual cruel visage!
panta98:Precisely that, Carl. ... In the Olduvai Gorge, in East Africa, Louis and Mary found the tool-maker, Homo habilis. This find caused a Copernican Revolution; it overturned European History. At last the "missing link" between the Stone Axe and the Computer was discovered. Poor Asian Homo erectus fell down on his four feet again.
ScnWrt:Now genetic engineering
to produce intellectually superior humans.
ScnWrt:Krypton,
Superman's planet, on Earth.
panta98:Yes, Carl, Labour has to produce a new Homo Faber!
panta98:Anyhow, ... But the controversy continued: Were there older "human beings"? Is Man's "Cradle" older than 1.5 million years?
panta98:In 1974, Dr. Johanson launched his Ethiopian "wo-man-ape", the 3.1-million-year-old "Lucy".
panta98:In 1976, Dr. Mary Leakey countered with the 3.6 million-year-old Tanzanian Laetoli 54-Step-"footprints" of a prehistoric "man-like" creature.
panta98:Then, in 1984, Richard, with the aid of a Kenyan, discovered the young "Turkana Boy", a complete 1.6 million-year-old skull and skeleton. And, he was extremely man-like. He used Acheulian stone tools to hunt for proteins, for animal flesh.
panta98:In Kenya, Meave tried to dig deeper into Human History, and she came up with the 4.1-million-year-oldHomo australopithecus anamensis, but he turned out to be too much "ape-like".
ScnWrt:A dinosaur species may
have developed with human-like intelligence
ScnWrt:Destroyed
by a meteor or the ice age.
panta98:Well, Iris, do you
like your Family Tree? just don't get down. Yes, Carl, a pity that the
meteor did not strike a little later. Later we'll discuss "intelligence".
iiiiriiiis: impressing,
Franz!
panta98:Khalid, here comes
your Father. ....
ScnWrt:I lke my family tree-descended
from a sloth
panta98:Also the discoveries
near Johannesburg, at Sterkfontein, of 600 hominid fossils, of "men-apes",
who were walking on two feet, some up to 35 million years old, could not
dethrone Homo habilis, the African Adam, the legitimate labouring "Father"
of Homo sapiens!
ScnWrt:or lizard
panta98:Yes, Carl.
panta98:In 1998, in South
Africa, even when Ronald Clarke found a man-like "little foot" of a three-million-year-old,
upright, walking hominid, complete with skull and skeleton, yet Mandela
and Mbeki could not claim South Africa as the "Cradle of Civilization".
panta98:It's interesting what Richard has to tell us about the origin of our human species:
panta98:Carl, here's your
point: "The events circumscribed in them are chance. We are a chance. But
the very beginning of the human story was in Africa where a population
first developed the skills to move around on two legs and later developed
the adaptation that we now call intelligence."
panta98:So, Iris and Khalid,
before some 2 million years ago, natural, ape-like, man-like, apeman-like
species had lived naturally and socially in East Africa; they did not work,
they did not labour, they used their four legs, and survived for millions
of years.
ScnWrt:Franz, European colonists were concerned only with the natural resources of Africa. If the population were whites, they would have exploited the dirty whites.
panta98:That's what "white"
DDT, sorry EDDD is all about! Carl.
frogmobile: yes!
true Carl.
panta98:But, then a new adaptation, a new way of movement, of motion, was ushered in: to walk on two legs! To develop the thumb, to have the hands free. Worse even, to produce and to reproduce the necessary tools for survival, a certain mental activity, "socialization", intelligence, was developed.
panta98:Now come brilliant, original ideas.
panta98:So there we have the prehistoric Homo sapiens, the archaic Homo faber. The labouring animal.
panta98:Our problem, however, is now: : to get back onto our four feet, to leave this bipedalism, this formal-logical, Either-Or Physical Labour, and to get rid of our "intelligence" (Intellectual Labour). ... and our ICQ, I seek you, sorry, our IQ quantitative measurements.
panta98:To free ourselves from our non-contradictory, our Either-Or, -- our dualistic, one-track, -- bi-cameral, binary, bipedal mind and thought control mechanisms --- from our fantastic, religious ideas and intelligent ideology. This is the first baby-step towards Emancipation.
panta98:PLEASE NOTE: Via Labour, Man catapulted himself out of History, left his quadrological, quadripedal transcendence, and fell into the epicentre of a boiling crucible of dualism, formal logics and dialectics, in a word, into Labour.
ScnWrt:Franz, I think we need
to develop into something new, not revert back
panta98:Iris, you'll like
this one: Jumping from the trees, leaving the love, care and beauty of
Mother Nature, behind, getting away from a fertile earth, from Mother Earth,
gazing, in erect posture, in upward gait, Man elevated himself to Heaven,
to Auschwitz, to the Labour Camp.
panta98:I'll come to that, Carl! Back is not back, is not formal-logically "back"; think about Don Albert's "directions"!
iiiiriiiis:!
panta98:Man became a premature birth, had no sharp teeth anymore, no claws, no velocity, a few miserable senses, he had no natural defence anymore; Labour left him only endowed with intelligence, with "intellectual labour", with so-called "brains", of which he is so very proud.
ScnWrt:I think humankind needs to develop a 6th sense that combines science and spirituality.
panta98:That Man is mini-part and micro-parcel of a totality of an earthly, cosmic process; and that he is not necessarily a key element, on the contrary, rather a labour "miscarriage", a "microsoft" being, "internetted in all sorts of contradictions, and that not all is "human" or belong to Homo sapiens, who walks on two legs, this his "intelligence" does not tell him.
panta98:Many more senses than 6, Carl. At least, 666.
panta98:Instead he visions himself as a sucker, as a bloodsucker, as a powersucker, as a Capitalist Conquistador, as a Global Matador. We wish him Bon Voyage on his intergalactic trip, on his omnipotent Titanic! Straight to a "Black Hole", to his cradle and grave, to a pitch "Black Planet".
ScnWrt:Agreed, Franz. My zip code is 07666.
panta98:
How far his "Intelligence", his "Intellect", his "Intellectual Labour"
got him, we can measure in our Millennium, in the advanced stage of a pre-historically
pre-programmed total "holocaust", of ecocide, genocide, fatricide and suicide
around us.
panta98:Next time, we'll
deal with perverse Rational Labour, generated by the so-called "Illuminati".
Now, enough pre-historic Statistics. I'll stop here for today. Let's chat
and debate now.
ScnWrt:Khalid, the power elites
orchestrate these events to reduce the global population to a controllable
1 billion.
panta98:So, guys! Have a ball! I gave you enough "food for thought", drinks from the everlasting well of life!!!
panta98:Jutta's Eurocard's number was: 6666.
ScnWrt:Interesting.
panta98:Anybody there. Now[s your turn. I've to relax. To take a cool, cold beer!
ScnWrt:I think we must encourage
people to always question the media. Converse on-line with on-site people
panta98:Was the introduction
so complicated?
iiiiriiiis:sorry,
gentlemen, I've to read back - give me a minute and please, proceed. Franz,
complex!
panta98:Khalid, what do
you think about Carl's comment?
ScnWrt:Not complicated, Franz
panta98:Iris, any comments?
frogmobile:What is the alternative to the historic process of labor? Were there any? Obviously NO, then what is the significance of this historic indulgence? Since we could not liberate ourselves or could we from this historic process could we link or relate the past historical process to a conscious purpose that was developed and planned deliberately.
panta98:Then, it must have been so clear, that very little can be said more.
iiiiriiiis: ...
on the contrary, Franz.
panta98:So, please comment,
otherwise, I'll begin again.
panta98:Excellent, bright
Khalid!
frogmobile:Interesting
comment Carl.
panta98:Not everything which glitters is gold, it could be a diamond.
panta98:Labour history is not All history. in fact, it's not the History, sbout what we're talking.
ScnWrt:Since labor began, the
exploiters found a way to exploit Heisenberg's Uncertainty prince-Keep
others in a constant state of random motion while preserving their own
position
panta98:Labour "history"
is a mini-relation between Nature and Society, a maltreated one, a perverted
one, suffering from the fatal epidemic, the Aids: EDDD.
panta98:We, the billions
of masses, were tuned to see, to live in a mini-labour-virtual-reality.
panta98:It's not all of
History; and this secret was guarded by formal logics and dialectics.
ScnWrt:To live in total fantasy
panta98: It's very hard,
well-nigh impossible, to explain to a "normal" human being, that he is
only living in a zillionth part of reality, and that his knowledge about
that microcosmos is even negligible. Everbody claims to know everything,
to know the only truth that ever existed.
frogmobile:The labor process is an accepted fact of natural indulgence because of the condition of man during that epoc of civilization however a careful examination would reveal essentially the socio-economic conditions of man would have been different if they did not have to "compete" for each other survival.
panta98:This is what Bob Marley meant by "mental slavery".
iiiiriiiis: indeed - and useless, Franz.
ScnWrt:Because he's been taught to fear reality,
panta98:The real true being and existence, Nature and Society, before labour was born, had, has no need to compete, to survive.
ScnWrt:Franz, it's life span was very short.
panta98:Nowadays, plants,
insects, animals and "human beings" compete to survive.
panta98: Millions of years
ago, they survived for millions of years, without destroying themselves
with competition. And even then, why is Life categorized "higher" than
"No-Life" or "Non-Life"? Why the relevance of "Life Sciences"? Dead man
tells no tales, does not produce Profits!
frogmobile:Okay Franz but labor has always been part of being and cannot be separated.
panta98:Short, in formal logical, spatio-temporal terms. ...
ScnWrt:Khalid, we need to distinguish between work and labor.
panta98:... infinite, eternal,
in equal, unequal and combined growth.
panta98:Homo habilis was
not individualized, had no individual life span. ....
frogmobile:They
are integrated concepts that go hand and hand from the inception of being
and existence.
panta98:It's work, labour,
which introduces a life-span, introduces individual and social death.
panta98:Well, Khalid! I'm
all ears, please distinguish!
ScnWrt:Work is simply force
applied to a given area - a natural process.
frogmobile:Work
is an activity that has been central in the differentation of mankind from
all other forms of life, Carl.
ScnWrt:Agreed, Khalid. Labor
and work are semantic terms.
panta98: Agreed, Khalid! Especially from Homo pandemonicus!
panta98:Carl, that's mechanical materialim. Without a limited, inadequate, spatio-temporal version of reality, Death or Lifespan do not even enter in the picture of cognition and recognition.
panta98:Even, today, in Nigeria, the majority of people celebrate when a family member dies, in fact, (s)he is buried under the bed, then they talk with her/him, give her/him food, and celebrate together rich harvests ...
ScnWrt:Franz, how would the survivor react when an associate dies?
panta98:Carl, they still
don't have this perverse Western, Occidental, Christian notion of Life
and Death.
ScnWrt:What happens when the
deceased doesn't answer?
panta98: The family members,
in true "bi-cameral" mind style, hear the voices of their ancestors, although
you and I can't communicate with them. Why should we deny their life signs,
when they do not even understand ours? God never "answers", yet the
Christians have no problem with his silence, they listen to their Socratic
"inner voices". This reaction is "human", is programmed, is socialized.
ScnWrt:I'm referring to the
logistics of life and death.
frogmobile:While
work is a central human activity it is also a social problem?
panta98:Anybody, you or I will react, just as we have been programmed, mind-controlled, until now; subconsciously, and even consciously, we have an awe for death, to cry when our beloved passes away. If we were emancipated, from the Life or Death Dualism, seeing it as two formal-loguical sides of the same Labour Process, it would be another situation, but we are zillions of "light" years away from emancipation.
iiiiriiiis:Carl,
in which sense distinguish between "work" and "labour"? Isn't it just probably
two moments of the Labour Process? Of so-called history? Expressions
of two levels of the same relation? Maybe we can differenciate: 'physical
work', 'intellectual labour' or the other way around --- ah...you just
stated it: semantic terms - sorry gentlemen the "slow burn"...
panta98: Excellent, Iris.
iiiiriiiis:...this
is too fast for me to "compete", guys ;-) but anyhow, I enjoy the
debate, proceed please.
This was programmed especially in medieval Europe, to fear the First Death (physical) and worse even, to tremble before the Second Death (spiritual).
panta98: With that billions
were controlled; this fear, this death, invaded every capillary, every
atom --- mind control at its worst, in its most godly and devillish logistic
operation.
ScnWrt:Franz. Agreed. The problem
is not accepting death as a natural process.
panta98: Probably, Carl, it's a spatio-temporal "ghost", just like God, the Saints, and the Angels, to which it is directly associated. Imagine, without Death, what would happen to the fantasies of Heaven and Hell. Khalid, I'm still waiting for the defence of "History", of "Work" ? Why?
panta98:"Human activity"? Khalid. What's that? Whose activity? Yours, Bill Gates'? Of the working class?
frogmobile:Work
and its discontents can only be understood from a theorectical framewok
of Alienation.
ScnWrt:Historically, I think
that natural human beings suffered from their own limitations.
panta98: Khalid, is Work
alienated? Carl, what's "wrong" with limits? Without them we would not
have "endless" emancipation.
iiiiriiiis:Sorry,
Franz - maybe I missed something, can't relate your question ...waiting
for the defence of 'History'?
iiiiriiiis: I
think Labour is alienation per se, Franz....
panta98: Does Work alienates
any human being? What about the ones, alienated already for millennia?
Khalid, please answer.
frogmobile:In
other words it means the estrangement of workers from their products of
labor
ScnWrt:Work is simply force
applied to a given area.
ScnWrt:Labor
is exploited work.
iiiiriiiis:this
would be the marxian point, that the only problem is "alienated labour"...
panta98:By right, they,
the workers, should be estranged from Labour. The thing is damn no "good".
I agree with all forms of alienation from labour! That's emancipation!!!!
panta98:Any comments, Iris???
panta98:Carl? Labour was
pre-programmed to realize itself, to realize Alienation, Capital and Profits.
Whoever or whatever works or labours, is in the "historic" production and
reproduction on Planet Earth, logically, is alienated, will be devoured
by Alienation. Alienation is not Satanism which invades Godly Labour, on
the contrary, God, Satan and Labour form the Holy Trinity of the Unholy
Alliance of the Quadrinity, EDDD.
frogmobile:The
product created is not determined by the "labor" involved but by the employee
of the owners of production. What else could Labour produces? it was programmed
for
panta98 has left the room.
frogmobile: How do
they correlate? To what historical significance?
iiiiriiiis: give me a moment, I'll save the script....
frogmobile: True Carl that is why I at time feel
that they are the "dumbest" folks on
earth
ScnWrt: The power elites control the mental motion
and rest of the hoi polloi,
historically
frogmobile: Okay Iris
frogmobile: Iris are you sleepy?
frogmobile: or aren't you sleepy?
iiiiriiiis: ok, back - no, Khalid
frogmobile: Wow!
iiiiriiiis: this is too interesting
frogmobile: Its raining and cold here in Toronto
iiiiriiiis: ok...read back
iiiiriiiis: ...invited Franz
iiiiriiiis: where have we been with the discussion,
Khalid?
ScnWrt: I also saved the script, and I invited
Franz
frogmobile: How do we differentiate work f rom
labor?
panta98 has entered the room.
You have just entered room "panta98 Chat51."
iiiiriiiis:Hi
again, Franz!
iiiiriiiis:saved
the script...
frogmobile:The
question I posed is can we emancipate "labor" from "work"?
panta98:
Well, the alienation business was too much for CANTV!
ScnWrt:Hi, Franz
iiiiriiiis:yes,
thanks Khalid.
iiiiriiiis:I
see, Franz!
frogmobile:How
do they correlate?
frogmobile:To
what significance and to what relevance to our debate and analysis?
panta98:As I was saying:
it's excellent to be "alienated" from Labour. It's not "natural", not "social",
not "historic" to work, it's labour pain, a pain in ....
iiiiriiiis: thats
the point!
ScnWrt:ein Kopfschmerz
iiiiriiiis:Khalid
- and Franz
frogmobile:ha!
ha!
iiiiriiiis:and
Carl!
frogmobile:Carl
what do you think?
panta98:Acting and Acts, within the framework of the relation Nature and Society is neither Work nor Labour. Or do you think that Adam and Eve were "working" in Paradise? They were thrown out, alienated, to go and work in agriculture. Work and Labour begun outside the "heavenly gate" of Paradise!
ScnWrt:Khalid, labor is the use of Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle to exploit people.
panta98:What I do on our
farm, is neither work nor labour. I don't produce to sell, I also don't
buy! I get seeds from the peasants as gifts, some animals too.
frogmobile:Given
the historical analysis of Franz of what relevance is it to us in creating
an understanting of this modernday Monster?
panta98: If I have
to buy anything, the buying and selling, I leave outside, in Hell, in front
of my door. I live with one foot, the right one, in Labour, and the left
one points towards Emancipation.
frogmobile: So
you are saying you do not labor or do nor Work since there is no economic
reward.
panta98: Inside I disalienate
everything, even alienated products. Economics, economic reward are labour
incentives, entities.
iiiiriiiis:The
relevance, Khalid: that first of all we have to identify with precision
of what we are "dealing with" ...
ScnWrt: Khalid, understanding
this monster is the first step toward emancipation.
iiiiriiiis:...it's
our staring point, if we 'like it or not', its part of us -
panta98:Long ago, I already
stated, I have no "time" and "space" to waste, to fight against feudalism,
capitalism, imperialism, neocolonialism and globalism, I've better things
to do, to think, and to excel, all by, for and of myself, here, now and
always.
ScnWrt:Next, recognizing free global resources that can be available to all humanity such as the free energy of Tesla technology replacing fossil fuels.
panta98:Also, less I have
to convince, indoctrinate, conscientize or educate anybody, who has no
ears to hear, no eyes to see.
panta98:No brain to think,
no transcendence to reason historically. Carl, that "new energy" is natural,
exists as ontic energy, to be enjoyed only as Homo emancipaticus.
iiiiriiiis:now,
what we are trying is, as Franz indicated in our last chat...
panta98:Does that answer
your query, your question, Khalid?
panta98:Any comments, Carl
& Iris?
frogmobile:No
you have answerd the gist of your own analysis
panta98:I'm no Jesus, no
Marx, no Pope, no Clinton!
ScnWrt:On my TV, there has
been a 3-hour dedicated to Egyptian mummies. Mummification was alienation.
panta98: The poor Egyptians,
they must have felt like sardines in ritalin tomato juice in the Valley
of Death. So much to do, so little done! To quote the arch-imperiallist,
Cecil John Rhodes. I agree with him. I have to emancipate myself, and not
to join political carnival, etc.
frogmobile:Guys
its 9.35 I have to bit goodnight to tonight's chat
panta98:Sometimes I even
cite imperialists to make a point, not only Marx. If necessary, I'll cite
Hitler & Stalin. Provided that they say anything historic.
ScnWrt:To quote H.G. Welles,
in science and government, no person is indispensible. We go on.
iiiiriiiis:ok
Khalid, till next time! Good night!
panta98:That won't convert
me into an Illuminati. For that I'm too wise!
ScnWrt:Buenas noches, Khalid.
Hasta luego
panta98:I'm tired too, it
was a hard day!
panta98:Buenas noches, you'll
get my part of the manuscript!
frogmobile:goodnight
folks I have to go for a swim before the recreation center closes at 10.30
panta98:Bye! irislein!
panta98:Bye! Carl!
frogmobile:Good
night all
ScnWrt:I got a free lance writing
assignment. So I'm a bit tired
panta98:Bye! Khalid. it
was fun!!!
frogmobile has left
the room.
iiiiriiiis:bye
then all, it was a pleasure!
ScnWrt:Bye, Iris. Un plaisir
panta98: Sending
the manuscript just now, stay online!!!!
panta98: Gute Nacht!!!!
iiiiriiiis: Bye,
Carl! The pleasure was mine!
ScnWrt: I will also save the manuscript as back-up.
iiiiriiiis: Gute
Nacht
iiiiriiiis: same
here, will save it
ScnWrt: Labi nachti
(Latvian), buona sera (Italian, Romanian)
iiiiriiiis: and
"snatch" Jutta for me, Franzlein ;)
ScnWrt: Franz, Give
my regards to Jutta
ScnWrt:Fran sends
her regards to you and Jutta.
ScnWrt: I enjoyed
this chat tremendously. Gute Nacht.
iiiiriiiis: Gute
Nacht, Carl, and yes, great chat!
ScnWrt has left the room.
iiiiriiiis: Fraaaaaaaaaanz, still around?
iiiiriiiis: Thanks ever so much, ich habe Deine
introducction sehr genossen - schade,
daß im discussion Teil wenig davon zur
Sprache kam. Mein Problem ist: erstens,
brauche ich ziemlich lange und kann mit der Schnelligkeit
des chats nciht mithalten...
iiiiriiiis: ...moechte auch nicht um "irgendwas"
zu sagen, einfach ein statement machen,
ausserdem finde ich es jedesmal sehr schwierig
mich, was den jeweiligen Grad der
debate anbetrifft...
iiiiriiiis: mit einzuklinken. Dazuhin kommt, daß
ich leider nicht "auf der Höhe" unserer
methodischen Diskussionen bin...
panta98: Einverstanden.
D'accord! Iris. Good Night!!!!
panta98 has left the room.
[Subject:
Free
lance writing assignment
Date:
Wed,
24 May 2000 10:07:18 -0400
From:
Jutta
Schmitt <juschmi@yahoo.com>
To:
Carl
Zimmerman <czfz@bellatlantic.net>
Carl,
I quickly read through last night's AOL
chat and enjoyed the debate.
I
agree, that we have to thoroughly study
and question this system we
are
living in, that is, the labour process
in it's totality, in order to
identify the problem (labour as alienation
per se). Once we have
identified this, we can take steps towards
its transcendence, towards
emancipation, and here is, where Franz
adequately quotes the British
arch imperialist, Cecil John Rhodes: "So
much to do, so little done!"
Luckily and in contrast to Rhodes however,
we don't have to "annex
the
planets". (The full quote is: "So much
to do, so little done - if I
could, I would annex the planets!"). Also,
another historic statement
that could have been adequately quoted
in the course of the debate,
is
the one made by Hitler, when he said "If
we control the minds of the
people we do not need tanks and machine-guns"
- another verification
for
us, what the ruling classes in history
have been up to, and a
constant
reminder in our endeavour to emancipate
our own minds from their
control, from ideology.
When the chat was coming to its end, you
mentioned, that you have got
a
free lance writing assignment now. I am
interested to know, on what
topics you write, and for what publisher.
I would certainly like to
read
your articles, Carl. Will they also be
published online? Please keep
me
informed.
Thank you and regards,
Jutta.
Please send my regards to Fran.]