Ada Choi Musings with thoughts on BF1, DIF, AR1 & 2

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Re: dun agree
Posted By: just me <sharonapple@mail.com>
Date: Friday, 20 July 2001, at 8:51 p.m.
In Response To: dun agree (kissme)

> I disagree with you about DIF, it has just the similar
> elements as UE or other detective series. I would
> rather watch LA Law or NYPD Blue than those shows
> because those shows only revealed two perspectives of
> the characters, relationships and jobs. The fourth one
> is more like Relationship Investigation Files. AR is
> no better, but at least it has a special element of
> comedy and irony that DIF lacks.

I actually found DIF 1 very, very amusing and I liked the the relationship between Kenix & Michael Tao's characters. I also liked Louisa So and Joey Leung & in DIF 1 and DIF 2 and their crazy relationship. I didn't like DIF 2 as much because I was annoyed with the way Michael Tao's character dealt with his relationship with Amy Kwok's character but I still like DIF 2 enuff.

Actually there aren't any HK cop series that are like NYPD Blues. NYPD Blues is very angst filled and not very amusing at all. After a while I stopped watching NYPD Blues because it made me depress. Everyone was either a alcoholic, had bad partners, were suffering from depression, were very angry people etc etc. Many cop shows in the states are like that. Heck, even many non-cop shows in the States are like that. Only some, like David E. Kelly's shows, managed to straddle the line between angst and comedy successfully.

As for LA Law, LA Law is a typical American night-time soap. It's like Melrose Place or Beverly Hills 91210 except in a law firm. If I'm not wrong, it's an Aaron Spelling production. Everything is about sex and who's sleeping with who. I got tired of it pretty quickly. I don't find LA Law more interesting than DIF 1 and 2.
I actually only liked the first few episodes of AR1 because I found Esther Kwan's character funny. After the breakup of her marriage she is devastated which is understandable but her character remains sort of silly throughout AR1. And right till the end I don't get the feeling that she's a better cop or a stonger person. It's the same for Joyce's cop. She remains rash and unreasonably stubborn throughout most of AR1 and is still like so in AR2. I also found Esther Kwan's relationship with Bobby annoying towards the end and was very annoyed with their relationship in AR2. And I was particularly annoyed with them dispatching her son off to Canada when they took such great pains to show how close mother and son were. After that she doesn't seem to miss him except for the very occasional phone call and the boy seems perfectly okay about it.

For a series that calls itself "Gun Carrying Woman Cop," I remember too many times when the women don't participate in the big cases or are saved by the men. I don't think the women, not even in AR2, are really good or great cops at all.

That said, I liked Marco and Joyce in AR1 & 2 and the only reason why I watched it was to see the development of their relationship. I actually fast forwarded parts of the end of AR2 because I was frustrated with Esther Kwan's character.

Don't get me wrong about Esther Kwan. I like her fine in her period films. Liked her in Taming of the Shew and Lady Flower Fist etc. I don't seem to like any of her modern screen personas (at less of the ones I've seen.) I didn't like her character in BF1 either.

I don't know about
> the third installment of AR because technically I
> don't like Ada's acting, but I can only try my best
> for Bobby, Marco, Joyce, Chu Mimi and the rest of the
> cast.

Ahhhh... I do like Ada's acting.  I like her eyes. Part of the reason why I love the way she acts is because she has the most amazing expressions in her eyes. I liked her flashing eyes at the confrontation with Nick Cheung right at the end of Secret of the Heart. And she and Gigi Lai are totally amazing in The Link. Man, if I met Ada's Suet Yi in a dark alley, she'll definitely scare the pants of me. 

I liked the hospital scene in On the Track or Off when Ah Yi thinks that Ah Yuen is dead and that she cursed him to death. I liked how childlike she is as she struggles to call her sister and when she realises Yuen's not dead, she shoots him arrows from those flashing eyes.

I liked her and Bobby in File of Justice V. I like her neurotic character. I like her transformation from the innocent who sobs uncontrollably at her husband's death, to the neurotic forthright prostitute who almost yells Bobby of a bridge, to the sad woman who returns to the Mainland. I particularly like the scene when she leaves Bobby outside the pub. The look, the half smile, the expression of untold sadness, resignation and weariness before she turns and the smile disappears from her face.

I like her in Healing Hands. I like her playfulness. I like the way her eyebrows move, her head tilts, her eyes shine when she sees the opportunity to pick up information in the hospital canteen. I like the shyness she displayed when she tried to grab Lawrence's hand in the underpass and the way she stompped her feet when he retracted his hand.

Burning Flame is different than other uniformed
> series, it reveals mutual affections on the job
> besides touches on love on each of the characters'
> private life. I don't think this one is either
> schizophenic or illogical. Point out which part do you
> think so.

The most schizophenic part for me is actually Waise Lee's character. They take such great pains to show what a good man he is, how he is able to separate work and his private life etc just to have his entire character collapse because he lost a race?!!??

BF1 isn't really a drama about firefighters and their life if you ask me. BF1 can't decide whether it wants to be about firefighters and their life or if it wants to be a "secrets and revenge" drama. Firefighters go to prison, leave the force, become triad members etc. There is the also the classic "secrets and revenge" bad guy nemesis in Louis Koo's "brother."

Admittedly I liked some of BF1. I liked the friendship between Wong Hei, Chin Kar Lok and Joe Cheng's characters in the beginning. I love Law Koon Lan and her mother-son relationship with Wong Hei is nice.
But I don't like how suddenly Joe Cheng's character seems to prefer money to friendship, I don't think there was enough build up to it. I don't like how the two friends seem to abandon the friendship after the nasty but not incredibly big incident in Joe's pub. The script doesn't show them trying to repair the broken relationship and that seemed strange to me because it's clearly set up early on in the show that they are extremely close.

And I definitely don't think there was enough build up to the point when Joe Cheng's wife decides she doesn't like Joe any more. They had a fairly loving relationship and then suddenly she doesn't like him any more??? Where did that come from?

I didn't like the way BF1 treated it's women firefighters either. I don't like Jade Leung's character at all. We don't see her participating in too many firefighting activities and I hate her relationship with Louis Koo's character. The man walks all over her and she lets him. We see her play housewife and babysitter more often than we see her on the job.

And Esther Kwan's character is annoyingly wishy-washy through most of the series. And I was disappointed that her participation in the biggest fire in the series is limited because she was hurt early on and had to be taken out of the building.

I don't like Louis Koo's character either. He's spoilt, unreasonable, selfish and I hate the way he treats Jade's character. I actually feel more sorry for his brother who becomes bad than I do for Louis's character. The way Louis' character deals with the knowledge of Jade's rape is also annoying.

There wasn't a lot of consistency in character development IMO. Too many times we see characters change but there isn't a proper leadup. And I really disliked the "secret & revenge" type elements in the plot. It's like they threw them in there for no other reason than to create emotional situations and a big confrontational type ending. If I wanted to watch any HK show about firemen, give me Johnnie To's Lifeline anyday, at least the firefighters are heroic in that film.

Healing Hands set is okay, but the only
> thing I hate so much about it is that the series tries
> too hard to teach people about life when those
> characters are the one with messed up lives. In fact
> the series is more like a fashion/trendy show.

I found HH very charming and really different from most TVB series. Also, I don't see why a person with a messed up life can't teach someone about life. Actually, a person with a messed up life can probably teach someone more about life than a person who's never been through hardship or pain.
Actually, the only one with a trully messed up life is Henry and Henry isn't trying to teach too many people anything. Henry's character is trying to cope with his guilt. And because Henry's walked that very same path, that's why he's the most qualified person to advice the boy who is walking that very path. See, messed up lives can give good advice. 

HH's charm is in it's characters and in the conversation. It's not like the usual TVB dramas because it has more quotable quotes than most any other series. Actually, I don't find HH preachy at all. The writer obviously has points to make about life but they seem to be more like observations about life than the shove-it-down-your-throat morality. There is a personal touch about HH, like the writer really feels this way about life that I find lacking in many TVB series.

For e.g. the sunrise scene between Paul and Jackie. Jackie asks a series of questions. These are very normal questions a person who is seriously ill would ask... "why me?" But the nice part about the script is Paul comes up with several rational answers but in the end he finds he has no answer and he falls back on the only thing he can be sure... his love and his support. And in the end, that's all that she needed. There is no preachy morality here. There is more preachy morality in 5 minutes of some Jackie Chan films than there is in all 32 eps of HH.

> Sometime sequels that are totally different than
> original is better than sequels that follows the
> original, for example Plain Love II, Taste of Love
> (actually a sequel of A Recipe For the Heart).

Gosh, our taste is completely different.  Cuz I've got to tell you, I hate A Taste of Love with a passion. I hated all the characters except for Joe Ma's character, hated the plot and thought it was illogical.
Well, that's it for now. 
enjoy

Re: dun agree
Posted By: just me <sharonapple@mail.com> 
Date: Saturday, 21 July 2001, at 4:09 p.m.
In Response To: Re: dun agree (kissme)

> DIF was among the most welcomed detective series
> because when this was out, detective series was still
> scattering on the market. But toward 1998, detective
> series pours out like crazy, everything gets bored.

When I talk about liking DIF, it's really on a personal level. It doesn't matter to me whether DIF did well in HK when it was first released. It doesn't matter to me whether police series got boring because there are tons of them by 1998. I actually first watched DIF3 last year, then DIF1 & 2 only this year.

> Besides HK series action scenes, analytical skills are
> still lacking. It shows lack of professionalism,
> especially among the supporting characters.

I'll agree that they are not as analytical and they don't really pay as much attention to police procedures, the law and they don't have as many twists etc. That said, I don't think that they lack professionalism. It's not easy to compare the HK series with Western series because they don't really belong to the same genre, follow the same conventions nor do they have the same budgets. The focus of the HK series isn't quite the same as one in the States, just as US series are often different from ones in the UK etc etc.

IMO, the HK series is less interested in depicting reality but more interested in depicting "reality" as they want it to be. It's not as interested in the "evils" of men, more interested in morality, values & retribution. That's why we see the constant emphasis on the family, friends, the ties that bind etc in the HK soap. There is usually more optimism in a HK series than there is in US series. Now if you buy into that optimism, which I do, then you'll find most HK series charming to some degree.

re: the angst filled and not amusing NYPD Blue
> That's reality (in New York) that's why. And a good
> show doesn't have to be amusing.

I don't disagree with you. I was just saying that I found DIF to be far more amusing than NYPD Blue. And I agree with you that a good show doesn't have to be amusing but NYPD Blue is too depressing for me. But being "too depressing for me" does not equal me thinking that it's a bad series.
Actually, I found DIF 1 & 2 to be more amusing then AR 1 & 2. And I don't really see any special element of irony in the AR series. Both of which I know you found more apparent in the AR series then in the DIF series.

> Can you blame Americans? I mean they claim the movie
> American Beauty their identity. Their show reflects
> some degree of reality and production make it seem
> real. HK TV series still lacks that, it still gives us
> the feeling that we are watching a TV series and these
> people are just acting.

This "realism" is the main reason why I got tired of American programming. I got tired of angst filled everything from police series, to family dramas, to law series, to teen series. TV & film is supposed to be entertainment and works as a form of escapism for many people. If everything was so realistic then how can one escape from the pressures and realities of life?

I like the HK soap because generally there is optimism even in a "secrets & revenge" soap like At the Threshold of an Era II, The Link etc.

Actually, no matter how realistic a US series is, I still know they are acting and that it's still a series.  The "realism" in a US series isn't even total "realism." It is a reflection of what Americans think is happening to their country but I personally don't know any angst filled families or people. 

> I think the "annoyiness" doesn't equals to
> "bad." I know people who are whinny like
> that, or involved in a annoying situations like you've
> described.

I'm not talking about the whinny bit. When I say "annoying," I speaking on a personal level. I find her character annoying. I'm not saying her character has "annoying traits" and is, therefore, bad. A character with "annoying traits" can be an interesting character. E.g. I found Fiona Yuen's character in A Matter of Customs (which is a series I also disliked) extremely interesting even though she has annoying traits. I wanted to know what made her character tick and why even though she isn't particularly nice the rest of the team seem to be okay with it.

As for those mother-son situations, yes
> they are the flaws, but not worthy of my attention
> because the director just want to establish a
> foundation that yes, she will misses her son and there
> should be a drama leaving her son but at the same
> time, she needs to get back on her feet--so that the
> director can match her up with Bobby again. If you
> think that's a big flaw in AR, might as well list
> allthe flaws of other series.

IMO it is a fairly big flaw because the mother-son r/s in AR was shown in great detail because it is part of her characterisation. I don't believe a mother who loves her son and relies partially on him to get back on her feet would let him go to Canada just like that. The boy need not go to Canada for Bobby and Esther's characters to get together. If the script didn't take such great pains to show us the mother-son r/s, I probably wouldn't have been so bothered by it.

> AR2 focuses more on women. Besides, to be powerful
> heroine, you don't need to be like Lara Croft running
> around with action scenes, it can be a single, working
> hard to make end meets while keeping a gun by her
> side, that's powerful enough.

No, you don't have to be Lara Croft, I'm not asking for Lara Croft. I don't think Esther's character grows. She basically has the same set of hangups she had almost throughout the series. I found her character very wishy-washy and unable to commit and is slow to move on. And although it takes strength to be a single working mother, the script doesn't really go into that. Remember, the boy hardly figures in the series at all, so she might as well be just a regular single working woman like the rest of us.

> About Ada and the Link, I don't think she did a fine
> job as a villain, but better as a mentally unstable
> person. She tried too hard to be evil but she doesn't
> act it out from in her, she keeps on showing with this
> thing about her I cannot stand. And frankly I wasn't
> at all scare of her character, more so pity.

Actually, I really believe that sometimes whether one likes an actor or not is really about a connection. Everytime I watch her, I actually do feel that Ada does become that person. Her eyes tell the story for me. I rather like her in evil mode and I found her very impressive.
But really, it's a personal thing. Even the most respected actors in the world have people who dislike them and who think they can't act much less lesser known actresses like Ada.
I could probably list a ton of actors I dislike and you'll probably be like "huh, but I think they are good." It's a personal thing. 

> That's call you get to know the person and expect them
> to have something behind that closet. How many time
> have you heard of kind-hearted mother killing her
> children because of depression?

Actually, when I get to know a person, I don't think of their closets, much less expect them to have skeletons in them. 

People seldom become bad suddenly, there are usually signs that people don't pick up on till the deed is done. Many times people only see that something meant something in retrospect. And many times people ignore these signs hoping that they don't represent anything till it's too late. But whatever the reasons, there are usually signs.
In Waise Lee's case there was virtually no warning. One minute he's good, the next he's bad. People are hardly like that. And scripts shouldn't be like that. If you don't don't show signs that the person is flawed, how can you expect audiences to understand how a perfectly good person can suddenly become bad? The catalsyt in Waise's case is the race but I never got the feeling anytime in BF1 that Waise's character can't stand to lose or is at any point in time unprofessional.

> I think you are asking too much for full display, but
> there are more than that from how I see it. Joe have
> kept his feelings inside himself for so long and he
> never wanted to tell his friends until that incident
> in the pub, it stirs up emotions and things started to
> come out. So that "nasty but not big
> incident" is actually made big because of the
> past problems. There are things you cannot imagine or
> you think there are lack of foundation but those are
> the things that can happen in real life. As for me I
> look at how it is focused.

Yes, but if the script doesn't show it, then it's conjecture on our parts. I actually have to construct a reason. I never got the feeling that Joe Cheng's character hid any of this in his heart till the pub incident. There is no lead up to that incident so that incident makes no sense to me because it's not a logical extension of the plot but merely a device to get to the emotional ending. It's like they threw it in there because they needed to get to another point in the story not because it flows or that it's part of his character.

I'm not asking for a full display, I'm asking for signs. They had tons of episodes before this to hint that there was problems in their relationship but we don't get any hints. Everyone is hunky dory happy and then out of the blue someone isn't?!!??

Things like that do happen in real life but usually you have a feeling something's not right before the big blow up. The script, however, doesn't do that for us.

I don't need total realism in a script. But the changes in tone in BF1 is very sudden which isn't part of good scriptwriting. One moment it's a drama about firemen and their lives, then it's a "revenge" drama (Louis/Jade/evil brother,) then it's a romance, then it's about firemen again, then it's no longer about firemen it's back to the "revenge" drama... what does BF1 want to be? And with each change there is very little lead up. And characters change without any lead up, no hints at the darker forces that drive them.

re: Joe's wife
> Ever since she came back from the States. And believe
> me, some people will do almost anything for money and
> better life.
Actually, I believe when she came back from the States she was pregnant and Joe married her and said that he was responsible. They then lead a fairly happy life till the plot decides that we need something to happen, let's make her "bad." I'm not saying it's not possible that she'll do what she did, I'm saying that there is no lead up to her change. Happy happy happy opps bad... huh, what happened to make her unhappy with Joe? That is never really explained. And before that her character doesn't seem to be like so, so what happened inbetween all that that made her so?

BF1's schizophenia is in it's inability to decide what kind of drama it wants to be. It can't decide so a lot of tone changes are sudden, uncomfortable and feel unplanned. BF1 almost feels like it was written as they went along and by different scriptwriters who aren't on the same page.

> There aren't that many women in the firefighter forces
> in HK. I agree that that's one of the weaknesses in BF, but I don't agree that that is the way BF treats women. I think it's just the weakness of character.

When I said that BF doesn't treat it's women well I meant that there are no strong women characters in BF.

re: Esther Kwan
> I agree, she was almost don't belong there with her
> petit body, but her acting make up some part of it.
Here's where we disagree again and I know I'm going to get creamed for this.  I do not like Esther's acting in AR1 and 2 and BF1 because I don't like her in these wishy-washy roles. I don't think she does well in them.
See what I mean about acting being about a connection?  Esther's acting did nothing for me in AR1, 2 and BF1. Sometimes I can forgive a bad script if the acting does something for me but unfortunately there was no connection there for me and I regret to say that most of the sections I fast forwarded in AR pertained to her and some of what I fast forwarded in BF pertained to her too.

> Not much comments on Healing Hands, because I gave up
> after tape 10.

enjoy