R H E T O R I C
Rant
1.4.97 Coke and Pepsi.
From: "J. Steinbeck" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Home of Newt
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 16:51:39 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Eleanor Rotthoff wrote:
> Gingrich was on the faculty of West Georgia College for seven years
> *before* he was elected to Congress. Indeed, a number of his fellow
> faculty members were instrumental in helping to run his initial
> (unsuccessful) campaigns for Congress. Upon his election, he resigned
> from the faculty as does every other member of Congress.
> And you have the effrontery to call respected scholars "dishonest"????
> I do hope that you have merely been duped on a grand scale.
Yes. In fact, just about everyone is dishonest, whether Democract
or Republican. And yes, including university professors. The
lamest thing about this society based on competition is that
somebody always has to lose. So too afraid to be out of a job,
professors have to invent random topics, just to have funding,
or they'd lose it to some other professor. So they hide their
own research for as long as possible, and finally release it
when it's done, just to claim all the credit. The professor
that comes in second loses. Why does this happen? Lack of
democracy. If professors THEMSELVES decided where to distribute
funds, then they'd be forced to debate which projects were
more worthy, thereby "forced" to educate all the other
researchers in the process. Democracy forces cooperation.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Home of Newt
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 14:56:06 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Van wrote:
> There was Gingrich's adultry during his [first] marriage to Jackie. One
> woman, Anne Manning, has come forward and confirmed a relationship with him
> during the 1976 campaign. "We had oral sex. He prefers that modus operandi
> because then he can say, 'I never slept with her.'"
Who the hell cares who Newt or Bill fucked in their past?
All you goddamned idiots on both sides so intent on
punishing the opposition that you never stop to consider
cooperation. If it's not a war between Democrats and
Republicans, then it's a war between Coke and Pepsi,
Palestine and Isreal. So what happens? Poverty here,
starvation abroad, and everyone getting just mad enough
to go out and kill someone. Fools.
-------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
1.4.97 Burn heretics at the stake.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress
Subject: Re: Anti-Christian Media Demonizing Cults
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:24:31 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Larry L. Jansen wrote:
> You don't see them attacking the occult. We war not with
> flesh and blood: but principalities and powers. Prepare
> for the final struggle between good and evil!
You mean the final struggle between the good, the bad, and
the ugly. The only "evil" is poverty, warfare, and ignorance.
The human beings that perpetuate such things are either
stupid or not fit for their jobs... but almost never Evil (TM).
------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.labor-unions,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress
Subject: Re: Anti-Christian Media Demonizing Cults
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 14:43:06 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Mark C. Craig wrote:
> Someone needs to tell the media that we have freedom of religion
> in America. We don't burn heretics at the stake anymore.
> This is just a first step in the coming persecution of
> Christians.
You could see it in many ways. It could be demonization of
science fiction which the eventual hope of killing
Scientologists or anyone who watches Star Trek. It could
be demonization of the Internet with the ultimate goal of
internet censorship. It could be a benign lesson to try to
teach us to be more skeptical of what we all hear, like
the OK bombing stories trying to teach us that terrorism is
in fact a bad thing (go figure). Or it could just be to
draw our attention away from what's really going on behind
the lines in our political and economic system - a
redistribution of political and economic power that hopefully
will benefit us all without leading to violence.
------
Thou shalt not make any graven image,
or bow down before any creation in heaven or on earth.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Reagan Ran Debt Up...Killing Us Now
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 13:45:13 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
George Conklin wrote:
> Ha Ha Ha. Ronald Reagan gave the nation most of its
> debt to build bombs we did not need, and to build up a
> military which will bankrupt us. He also gave us medical
> care at twice world prices. That is why Medicare is in
> trouble: Reagan did it on purpose.
Not. There's no such thing as debt. Debt is nothing but
welfare given by the loaner to the loanee in hopes that
it will get back something in return. And what we got
back was great weapons of destruction, sure to protect us
from the next uncooperative alien invasion from outer
space. Sure, it's also good for keeping other countries
at bay, but, like gun rights, it's merely peace through
sticks, instead of peace through carrots. And the reason
this happens is because our welfare system sucks. Defense
employees, like every other employee, don't want to wind
up on welfare. We could EASILY move all of our law
enforcement agents, criminals, whathaveyou on to a REAL
welfare / education system. Whether you're paid to hunt
someone down or to learn, matters little to our economy,
except that in the second case, knowledge is produced.
------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Theft of Indian land
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:26:03 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
James R. Olson, jr. wrote:
> ->The occupiers/owners of land die without heirs. Who owns
> ->the land?
> Their closest relatives? The social/political group they belong to?
> Your argument skirts closer and closer to Rights of Use, which imply
> that the workers should own the factory. But even Rights of Use can't
> justify the disenfranchisment of the native Americans, since they were
> using the land for hunting and gathering, or would have after
> recovering from their population crash.
Correct on both counts. The "Right of Use" can exist only
in one of two ways. Through agreement, or through coercion.
Laws reflect agreement. Enforcement reflects coercion. If
a law does not have to be enforced, then THAT is when true
agreement has been reached. The problem with our justice
system is that agreement is never reached. If I don't
agree with you, do I let you debate me? Nah, who wants to
learn about your "plight" anyway? Go on off to jail so I
make it home in time for Must See TV.
31.3.97 Too powerful for a democracy.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: A Few Owners of the So-Called Liberal Media
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:23:13 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Michael Zarlenga wrote:
> The reporters in the mainstream press are OVERWHELMINGLY biased to
> the left. Every poll of the media in the last decade has found the
> lean to the left.
WRONGO! They are ONLY to the left of YOU. When was the
last time you saw a member of the "liberal" media use
the First Amendment as a justification for communism? Never.
If the first amendment bans the death penalty, bans silent
imprisonment, bans intimidation, then it must also ban any
situation that allows a rich man to have more time to speak
about his own views than a poor man. This only happens
when the poor no longer have to spend all day on the job
just to make ends meet.
-------
Freedom of speech for the poor, freedom to be heard for the rich.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: A Few Owners of the So-Called Liberal Media
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:11:36 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Mitchell Holman wrote:
> }That a small group of very wealthy individuals with an agenda not
> }supported by the American people are spending billions to try and
> }change the public's mind.
> You *are* talking about Pat Robertson's network, aren't you?
Liberal is a relative term. A liberal is someone too poor
to be a capitalist, too rich to be a communist, too powerless
for an autocracy, and too powerful for a democracy.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.usa.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress
Subject: Re: "Greenscam" is Stealing Your Money
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:03:56 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Mark C. Craig wrote:
> "Greenscum" has raised interest rates 8 times since 1994, with the
> excuse that he was pre-empting inflation. The fact is: we were in
> a period of wage deflation (wages down 20% since 1973). This has
> resulted in record profits for the banks, by increasing their profit
> margin 3%; however, this thievery has added 150 billion dollars to
> the deficit, cost home buyers and consumers 100s of billions,
> increased the strength of the dollar 50%; resulting in an exploding
> trade deficit that has cost 100s of thousands of jobs, and making
> it impossible for our domestic producers to compete with the
> multinational companies. This crook needs to be arrested for Grand
> Larceny, and Treason!
Yeah right. Like you were going to do something with all
those numbers anyway. Face it, the only thing you were
going to do with those numbers was just look at it. And on
the day you die, you'll say, "See? See? I got the most points!"
Why DO people save money anyway? The most likely reason is
that they are afraid of an expensive hospital stay sometime
in some distant future. So they hoard it all and invest in
companies that make those little umbrella things that you
put in mixed drinks. And what happens to medical research?
Nothing. What happens to medical training? Doctors hate
having to compete against more doctors, so they lobby against
more medical training. What happens to pharmaceutical
companies? Too busy making ant-acids and headache medicine.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.publius,talk.politics.theory,talk.philosophy.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.origins,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.atheism,alt.politics.socialism,alt.christnet,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.renewing.american.civilization
Subject: Re: The Evolutionists' Superstition About Speech
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:50:38 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Claude Du Bois wrote:
> How can anyone make a test of something that is a leap of
> Faith? Are you attempting to tell us that " YOU " can prove that there
> is a God? Being one of those people that would want to stick my
> finger in the supposed holes of the Christians Christ after he was
> taken down and supposedly resurrected, will you be able to produce
> this Supposed Son of God?
Whether this resurrection is true is not what is important.
The reason Christianity has survived so long as a philosophy
is that it gives its followers the courage to stand up against
oppression, the courage to protect the powerless. The belief
in the greater good of God is similar to evolution's greater
good for society. Those philosophies that promote altruism
and cooperation are more fit to survive. Of course, then
everybody forgets the Second Commandment and blindly follows
some raving lunatic, and then goes off to kill, steal, and
rape... all in the name of Purity, for the King, to defend
Capitalism, whathaveyou. Quite like how we all forget the
First Amendment when we go off and electrocute someone.
------
Thou shalt not make any graven image,
or bow down before any creation in heaven or on earth.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.current-events.usa,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Minimum wage increase: Think of it as Trickle Up Economics.
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:34:25 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
kenfran wrote:
> economy going. When rich people get increased income, some is consumed,
> and some goes into the stock market, etc. When poor people get more
> money, they spend it. This means that directing increased income to the
> lower wage sector means more positive effect on the economy.
When the rich get money, it can be "consumed" in various ways.
1. Entertainment. If it gives them the morale boost to keep
working, then fine. At least it keeps entertainers employed.
2. Charity. This can either go to useful ones, like education
and research, or relatively useless ones, like saving whales,
or feeding hungry children that are then denied an education.
3. Waste. Equivalent to throwing money into the fire. They
hire lots of workers to go work on some lame-brained project
that's doomed to failure. Wasting everyone's time and
effort.
4. Stocks, bank, bonds, etc. The value of this investment would
depend on who's handling the money. Whether the broker
invests in entertainment, education, lame-brained ventures,
etc.
The effect of a minimum wage hike can indeed cause inflation.
Like an upper class tax cut will cause inflation in the
products that the upper class buys. An upper class tax HIKE
would, in fact, cause DEFLATION in upper class goods, and
possibly bring the middle class into the same market. However,
all this mucking with numbers does little to directly move
society forward. What REALLY moves society forward is
knowledge. Knowledge that results from teaching and learning.
Knowledge that should not be hidden behind trade secrets,
patents, or copyrights.
31.3.97 All they ever really wanted to be.
4.4.97 If you need security guards.
5.4.97 We just believe in bureaucracy.
7.4.97 A bit better and a tad safer.
10.4.97 Gladatorial economics.
From: "W. Bagger" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,sci.econ,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:33:13 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Terry Hallinan wrote:
> As a businessman I am naturally in favor of a market and markets in
> any case exist everywhere. There is no totally free market. I am not
> fond of socialism but I certainly would not like to see the police
> force privatized or many other government functions. There is no
> obvious advantage to a private monopoly over a government monopoly.
> Both operate autocratically.
Correct. Unless, of course, one of these monopolies were run
like a representative democracy. As a businessman, how much
of your expenditure must be wasted on marketers and lawyers
instead of production, research, and morale building? Without
a monopoly, you are forced to hire your own marketing and
legal departments simply because your competition is doing the
same thing. The Great Capitalist Arms Race. Waste of time?
You bet. But what else can you do? Everyone knows a monopoly
is a bad thing, even if it IS efficient to the point of not
having to worry about added security for trade secrets. Wouldn't
want to put security officers, marketers, and lawyers out of
work though. Then they might actually do something constructive
for a change.
---------
Folfanga. Fourth world of the Folfanga system. Estimated journey time,
three weeks. There to meet with a small slug. Of the genus A-Rth-Urp-
Hil-Ipdenu. I believe that you had decided to call it a brainless prat.
From: mfriesel@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism,alt.politics.reform
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:06:52 -0700
Organization: Netcom
Tim Gorman wrote:
> "C. Kane" cyu@geocities.com wrote:
> >Competition against what?
> >Competition against another company draws employees together.
> >Competition for raises and promotions drives employees apart.
> >Competition against low prices draws oligopolies together.
> >Competition for consumers drives companies apart.
> >Competition against ignorance draws countries together.
> >Competition for resources drives countries to warfare.
> >The fact is that competition against your peers at any level
> >creates jealousy, secrecy, dishonesty, and hatred. Peer
> >competition is completely inefficient, and only perpetuated
> >by fools. Peer competition is against the very point of
> >civilization.
> An hour's meditation on the Olympic ideal every morning would do you a
> world of good. It is YOUR jaundiced view of competition that causes
> the problems in the world. When you view competition as a lose-lose
> situation between two entities instead of an opportunity for each to
> do their best (not their worst) you cause your own prophecy to come
> true. Competition is not against the very point of civilization. YOUR
> view of competition is what is against the very point of civilization.
I note:
Simplistic answers don't work here. Competition can bring out the
best in people if there is some agreement - cooperation clearly -
regarding which goals are desirable and which are not desirable, and
if rules are established and enforced to ensure the former and prevent
the latter. If the Oakland Raiders brought guns on the playing field
and threatened to shoot any Viking player who interfered with them,
the Raiders would win. The Vikings could bring guns as well next
time, and perhaps waylay the Raiders in their locker room prior to the
game. This behavior is illegal, but only so by common agreement.
The second issue is what to do with winners and losers. Typically a
prize goes to the winners - certainly they are given or can take
something desirable - the resources to continue training and positive
reinforcement and motivation. This is generally expected and only due
in the opinion of many. Losers? In the extreme of the Roman circus
or warfare they are killed, or perhaps they only lose all of their
resources. In modern professional sports teams may lose for years but
maintain their resources, or through the rules of the draft and the
interests of investors increase their resources because they have lost
- because a desirable goal is to maintain a certain level of
competitiveness in spectator sports or because the investors can still
profit.
Contrast this with industrial competition where a loser - Apple for
instance - may be driven out of business and all it's resources taken.
Also, it is not a simple game - the rules are poorly defined, and
there are various objectives among the employees, stockholders, and
other considerations which are not subject to general oversight and
approval. If IBM's government contacts prevent Apple from selling
products to the government regardless of the relative merit of the
product, Apple loses. If IBM has the resources to give away thousands
of computers to schools so that students are trained on them, while
Apple lacks these resources, Apple loses regardless of the merits of
their product. From IBM's standpoint this is fine. From the
consumer's standpoint perhaps not. Within a corporation, an
individual may stand out above others because of his abilities to do
his job. A manager may resent this, and look at the more capable
employee as a threat to his own position, and work to eliminate the
employee by denying him the resources to do his job. The rest of the
company, with no knowledge of the situation because their information
is filtered by the manager, loses. The competent individual who loses
his job may not only lose his resources, thus his ability to compete,
but may be prevented from accumulating new ones if the society is set
up to maximize the ratio of qualified workers to jobs. This latter
situation could be exacerbated if the manager feels it's to his or her
interest to spread detrimental information about the guy to other
potential employers who may be otherwise aware of his merits. In these
cases the unequal distribution of resources is used to the detriment
of individuals and societies in the competition for resources. As the
stakes become higher due to polarization, our societies become more
like gladatorial arenas for those with equivalent resources, or
competition disappears entirely if resources are monopolized.
In short, it's probably better to think a little bit before mouthing
off too much.
MAF
From: "H. Stowe" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:16:19 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
James R. Olson, jr. wrote:
> Capitalism isn't really a total failure. I regard it as a little like
> a chain saw or a punch press- a valuable tool that can maim you in a
> second if you aren't very careful.
True. Slavery and autocracy weren't total failures either.
But you know, some people actually think a society based
less on competition and more on cooperation might be a bit
better and a tad safer.
-------
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
From: "J. Steinbeck" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 13:58:56 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
James R. Olson, jr. wrote:
> James Galbraith has a well-reasoned article in the Texas Observer that
> claims Greenspan is mainly interested in "disciplining" workers so
> that they won't insist on a share of the current growth. The
> class-interest analysis seems to match the facts of the matter
> closest, as far as I can see.
The real fear is that if he admits that capitalism has been
a failure, all the workers in all the essentail jobs of this
country will stop working... and the only way we'd be able
to get them back to work is with guns and whips. Typical
autocratic thinking. Nobody ever imagines a world where
employees determine their manager's salary rather than the
other way around. None of us really believe in democracy.
We just believe in bureaucracy.
From: "J. Steinbeck" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.socialism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 21:00:43 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
M. Soja wrote:
> You keep forgetting (or perhaps don't know) that part of a stock's
> price comes from the underlying hard assets of the company. You buy
> shares in Union Pacific and you are buying locomotives, tracks, and
> pipelines. You are buying a share in the business, whatever business
> and including all assets of that business. Buying a stock is not just
> investing, it is OWNING.
Ownership can be determined by one of two ways. Agreement or
coersion. If no one challenges your ownership, then that's
agreement. If you need security guards to keep people out,
then that's coersion. That's the only difference between a
democracy and an autocracy.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politcs.libertarian,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: "Damn Liberal network media", says Lott
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:04:08 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
mfriesel@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> My view is that the market is not going to crash in the same way as in
> '29, nor do I think that the Japanese will wholly and catestrophically
> withdraw loans to the U.S., but I also can't see baby boomers as a
> group simultaneously expecting to withdraw their money from the market
> in fifteen years without serious consequences to the economy.
Whether it crashes hardly matters because they're just
numbers in computers. Everything that we REALLY need to
be productive is still here: people, ideas, raw materials.
So what happens if it DOES crash? Three solutions:
1. FDR's route. Invent semi-useful jobs for everyone to
do. New art, new weapons, etc etc. Everyone's
employed, everyone's happy. Sort of the "communist"
version of a centrally planned economy.
2. Hitler's route. Forced labor camps. Conquer other
countries, to steal their "valuables" (art, gold, etc).
Pay people with art and gold, until nobody wants all
that useless shit anymore, and the economy collapses.
3. Get rid of all the useless jobs. Take the money that
used to be wasted on their salaries, and use it to
provide both welfare AND education for them. It
becomes their "job" to produce new knowledge for
everyone. A democratic centrally planned economy.
Of course, this will put a lot of economists out of
work, but that's OK. They get to be scholars too.
Hey, all they ever really wanted to be was astronomers
right?
31.3.97 Make yourself useless.
1.4.97 16:13 Any economist will tell you.
1.4.97 16:55 Let them grow cake.
4.4.97 The 50% on vacation.
8.4.97 The size of a blimp.
9.4.97 Only capitalists see the emperor's new clothes.
From: "C. Kane" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.economics,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.crime,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:53:19 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
altavoz wrote:
> altavoz: Hmmm.....sounds like an angry communist . Listen , half wit,
> Capitalism doesn't have to "listen" to anyone cause it's to busy making
> people happy , stopping crime, putting Bentleys in everyones garage .
> Take your stinking communism and your demented mind to N. Korea
> and tell us how you like a more rigorous form of communism .
Capitalism listens to whoever has the most money. It's a
democracy of dollars. And that's why people live in poverty
while the rich can go buy chemicals to grow peach fuzz on
their bald heads. Capitalism creates crime. In a
country with universal health care, a guaranteed education,
and a guaranteed job, there's no reason to go out and rob
someone of a handful of green paper.
As for North Korea, communism was never achieved. Inequality
between rich and poor still existed because no one was able
to vote thieves out of office. The reverse is true in this
country because the rich are able to buy their way into
office.
From: "C. Kane" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.crime,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 17:35:15 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
altavoz wrote:
> altavoz: We do not have capitalism !!! We have 90% socialism
> 10% cap' . Cap' isn't inefficient , soc' is .
Autocracy is efficient in terms of reaching a decision.
Democracy is efficient in terms of morale building.
Competition is efficient in terms of personal profit.
Cooperation is efficient in terms of creating knowledge.
> Crime is caused by a govt that taxes so high that honest work
> pays less than crime work .
Crime is caused by capitalism. WHY do you think criminals
steal green paper? Steal shiny rocks? What do they then
spend it on? Food, health care, education? Perhaps, or
perhaps for their children. Or, maybe they want to buy
MORE shiny rocks, or a whatever lame-brained product that
a great marketing campaign tells them they should want.
Only in capitalism can people be tricked into thinking
that a 21" TV is worth twice as much as an 18" TV. Or the
sound quality of a CD is WAY BETTER than that of a tape.
Only capitalists see the emperor's new clothes.
From: "H. Stowe" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.crime,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:57:24 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
altavoz wrote:
> School is a solution to everything . NOT ! Especially
> not gov't run schools . The govt s/b outlawed from anything
> dealing in education .
Whether it's government run or privately run has no bearing
on the quality of education whatsoever. As with anything,
all it needs is both consumer and employee democracy.
> A soc' based on competition is a soc' that has the highest std of
> living
> and high std of living cures poverty by converting the poor to
> middle class ! Communism ( USA, CHINA,N. KOREA etc) incourages poverty.
Standard of living defined by what? Number of "different"
colas you can buy? Number of different colors underwear
comes in? Number of homeless in the streets? Life
expectancy? How afraid people are of crime and racism?
Poverty is caused by autocracy - economic and political.
Poverty results because neither autocrats nor capitalists
are willing to REALLY listen to the very people they are
supposedly trying to help. Every one of them has an ego
the size of a blimp.
----
"A university is what a college becomes when the faculty loses interest
in students." -- J. Cairdi
From: "J. Steinbeck" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.crime,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 19:33:12 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Mike Wooding wrote:
> Most economists agree there's no such thing as a free lunch.
> (TNSTAAFL) Most economists agree that someone somewhere must
> do some work if we are all to eat, have shelter, etc. etc.
> Most economists agree that if you tax productivity 100% you
> will get less productivity. There's lots of things most
> economists agree upon.
How's this for a free lunch? How many truly essential
jobs do you think this country has? Farmers, electric
power, doctors, distributors. If every car company,
every construction company, every other manufacturing
company stopped work, would the economy be that bad off?
THAT is the beauty of the industrial revolution. The
vast majority of this country's population could easily
be supported by a fraction of it. Even if you needed
50% to keep the country going, the other 50% could still
be on vacation for 6 months out of the year with little
impact on anyone's survival rates. The only question is,
should the 50% who are on "vacation" waste it telling lies
and hiding secrets, or should those 50% be trying to
figure out a way to become even more efficient?
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.crime,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:55:11 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Mike wrote:
> This debate returns to one simple question: do you own
> your body? Do you own your body, or does some bureaucrat
> with armed minions own your body? It is my belief that I own my body,
> and as long as I don't harm anyone's person or property, I should
> be allowed to do whatever I want with my body.
Not even that. It's a question of efficiency. Who currently
makes a living out of the drug trade? Pushers, enforcement
officers, farmers who need to make a living overseas,
manufacturers for the "tools" used by both sides. Just
take all the money that is being wasted on that warfare and
use it for something more constructive instead. Put them
all on welfare and in school. Including the farmers and
dealers outside the country. Tell them to grow food for
starving people in the rest of the world. The problem with
a society based on competition is that someone is always being
hurt, no matter what you do. More farmers there means more
farmers out of work here. So put our out-of-work farmers in
school too. Invent some machines put even more people out
of work or do research for geothermal energy or whathaveyou.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.crime,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:13:06 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Hellboy@hotmail.com wrote:
> > NOBODY wants to be
> >useless. BUT the goal of civilization, IS, in fact, to
> >make yourself useless, by coming up with new ideas, new
> >processes... that will save yourself time, and save time
> >for all of society. However, our economy has no way to
> >reward such efficiency.
> This is just stupid. Any economist will tell you that rising worker
> efficiency (more stuff produced per worker) makes wages rise --
> increased productivity = increased wages on average -- sounds like a
> reward to me.
Yeah, any economist who needs to invent research topics for
himself just to stay employed. Rise in wages = inflation.
Tax cut = inflation. In the end, it's all just a crock of
shit. An increase in efficiency should be used to support
welfare and education. Because it's knowledge that moves us
forward. Not numbers.
-------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism.death-penalty,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.crime,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Legalize Drugs!!!! (Re: Three Strikes)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:26:28 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
kight@bellsouth.net wrote:
> This is questionable. Would "reputable" businessmen provide strongly
> addictive products to society? I know they sell tobacco products now,
> but we are just beginning to understand the dangers of tobacco, and it
> is still not as debilitating as heroin or cocaine.
The drug trade and tobacco trade actually have quite a few
benefits. It keeps American tobacco farmers employed, and
it also returns some of the wealth we are taking away from
Latin American countries. BUT, not only that, it also keeps
employees of the American Cancer Society employed, as well
as members of the DEA and Coast Guard (not to mention the
various suppliers of weapons and transport)... and lots of
urban youth as well.
So WHY do we have this symbiotic relationship? Capitalist
inefficiency. Our welfare and education systems suck.
NOBODY wants to wind up on welfare. NOBODY wants to be
useless. BUT the goal of civilization, IS, in fact, to
make yourself useless, by coming up with new ideas, new
processes... that will save yourself time, and save time
for all of society. However, our economy has no way to
reward such efficiency. What we need is not only mass
education here for those out of work, but mass education
abroad for those out of work as well. Sharing knowledge
costs next to nothing, but the return on that investment
in terms of new knowledge is invaluable.
31.3.97 15:02 Hitler and his victims.
31.3.97 15:30 Surviving in a capitalist economy.
From: "W. Hearst" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.society.anarchy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.noam-chomsky,alt.politics.socialism,alt.anarchism,alt.illuminati,alt.org.food-not-bombs,alt.discordia
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech:Where are the Limits?
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:03:41 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
ludwin wrote:
> Hitler was elected in 1933 by a narrow, relative majority of 43% of german
> voters. But theese voters had no idea of the REAL intentions of the nazis,
> who used to call themselves "national socialists". If all Geramns had known
> that the nazis were going to kill persons just because of their origins, to
> start a criminal war, they would never have voted for the nazis.
> However, the question is clever: what must we do in a country were fascists
> are elected through democratic elections. When democracy endangers
> democracy?
You mean when a majority democracy endangers unanimous democracy?
It still comes down to freedom of speech. Free speech means a
ban on execution, silent imprisonment, intimidation, and expensive
communication costs. A ban on intimidation means a ban on
autocracy. A ban on expensive communication means a ban on
capitalism.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.anarchy,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.noam-chomsky,alt.anarchism,alt.illuminati,alt.org.food-not-bombs,alt.discordia
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech:Where are the Limits?
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:30:03 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
JMH wrote:
> > I noted that if copyrights were intended to protect
> > _authors_ they would be inalienable, that is, one could not
> > buy, rent, or steal them, and I guess fictional persons
> > like corporations couldn't own them.
> I guess where I'm confused is why you think that copyright
> should be any less alienable (though I suppose half alienated
> is a bit of an oxymoron ;-) than any other property right.
I'm willing to bet that if you took an honest poll of
the CEOs around this country, many (if not most) will
tell you that patent and copyrights ARE inefficient,
BUT that is the only way their companies were able to
survive in the economy that capitalism has given them.
What we are seeing now in this explosion of information
on the internet is actually vital to the advancement of
knowledge. However, our past attempts at rewarding new
knowledge with copyrights and patents is failing to
reward all the new information, despite the amount of
time it has saved everyone with access to the internet.
And thus, most of these new businesses are floundering.
The biggest danger of socialized support for these
publications, however, is that we face the danger that
they will lose touch with the consumer. And that is
what makes both consumer democracy and employee
democracy vital. It's time to face reality: raising
or lowering taxes does nothing but cause deflation or
inflation in the class it's targeted at.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.anarchy,alt.politics.socialism,alt.fan.noam-chomsky,alt.anarchism,alt.illuminati,alt.org.food-not-bombs,alt.discordia
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech:Where are the Limits?
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 15:02:26 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
James A. Donald wrote:
> Hitler received a large plurality of the vote, on a platform whose key
> planks were rendering Germany free from jews, and grabbing some
> unspecified foreign lands and rendering them free from their original
> inhabitants. Most of the other important parties also had
> totalitarian agendas.
If you protect freedom of speech, then both Hitler AND his
victims are protected. TRUE freedom of speech includes a ban
not only on political censorship, but also on intimidation,
silent imprisonment, banishment, and execution.
31.3.97 Autocracy, child abuse, divorce.
1.4.97 The goal in life is to own villas.
From: "J. Iscariot" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.economics,alt.activism,sci.econ,alt.activism.militia,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.censorship,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.socialism,alt.individualism,alt.law-enforcement,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.radio.talk,alt.radio.talk-radio,alt.rush-limbaugh,misc.survivalism,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Christian Family Persecuted by Fascists
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 13:26:39 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
> In article 333E4C37.29BD@mnsinc.com,
> Harry Estes testes@mnsinc.com said:
> > I would like to see how much all of you people whining about big
> > corporations had to say if they all closed up shop and left the
> > country. Think about it:
> > No cars ( even Algore drives a car)
> > No medicine
> > no liberal movies
> > no profane CD`s
> > no computers to get on the internet
Jefferson's agrarian vision of American society failed because he
failed to predict the rise of capitalism. The evolution of any
civilization invariably goes from agriculture to industrialization,
to seduction by technology, to weapons of mass destruction, to
armageddon. But on the Seventh Day, true mass communication is
created. The printing press, shortwave radio, the internet. Always
fought back by those in power, but eventually the truth gets out.
It always does. On the Seventh Day, 50 years from now, society
will look back at 1997 and laugh all our beer mug hats and chia
pets, and Jefferson's vision will be realized. Sure, cities will
still exist, but only because people want to live there, not
because they are forced to live there just to make a living
counting beans.
--------
The fear of rain was created by umbrella makers.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.socialism,alt.activism,alt.activism.militia,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.censorship,alt.christnet,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.individualism,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.journalism.freelance,alt.journalism.gonzo,alt.journalism.newspapers,alt.journalism.print,alt.law-enforcement,alt.mindcontrol,alt.news-media,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.radio.pirate,alt.radio.talk,alt.radio.talk-radio,alt.revisionism,alt.rush-limbaugh,fido7.human-rights,misc.survivalism,news.admin.censorship,news.admin.misc,news.groups,talk.abortion,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christian Family Persecuted by Fascists
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 17:32:04 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Spanky wrote:
> >Bullshit. Social service workers as a whole don't give a damn about
> >anybody. They are too busy playing with red tape. AND they are out of
> >control. They can burst into your home for no more reason than someone
> >who has a grudge against you calling them anonymously. If they do not
> >like what they see (and what they like and dislike varies from worker to
> >worker) they can take away your child.
> What's the difference between a pit-bull and a social worker?
> You can get your kid back from a pit-bull.
Yep. And it all comes down to capitalism. Our welfare system
stinks, so they'd sooner create inefficiency, thereby
guaranteeing themselves a job, instead of creating efficiency
and putting themselves out of a job. The answer? REAL
welfare and REAL education. How much is all this going to
cost us taxpayers? Who the hell cares? More taxes just means
deflation. And for those of you who think success is measured
by the number of villas you own - is that REALLY success? Or
did you just fall for a bunch of marketing that made you
actually believe that the goal in life is to own villas? Or
Picassos? Or gold? In a capitalist society, you earn respect
from your peers with purchasing power. In an intelligent
society, you earn respect from your peers by helping society.
--------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.society.labor-unions,alt.activism,alt.activism.militia,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.censorship,alt.christnet,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.individualism,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.journalism.freelance,alt.journalism.gonzo,alt.journalism.newspapers,alt.journalism.print,alt.law-enforcement,alt.mindcontrol,alt.news-media,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.radio.pirate,alt.radio.talk,alt.radio.talk-radio,alt.revisionism,alt.rush-limbaugh,fido7.human-rights,misc.survivalism,news.admin.censorship,news.admin.misc,news.groups,talk.abortion,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Christian Family Persecuted by Fascists
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:42:53 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Seth Williamson wrote:
> The problem with this solution from the point of view of the
> social welfare liberal is that they see the family as a hateful and
> oppressive institution, one that moreover stands between the
> individual and the all-powerful centralized mega-state. They fear
> anything that competes with the state for influence over the
> individual.
It depends on the family. Most families are communist
in economic structure. The decision-making can be
either democratic or autocratic. It's the autocratic
families that lead to child abuse and divorce. Plain
and simple.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: No liberty under socialism.
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 13:26:14 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
> Steve Emerson wrote:
> >In fact, all the relief agencies around the world aren't
> >concentrating their efforts on helping illiterate people
> >living in shacks without sewage. No! They are concentrating
> >on helping the shackled, oppressed peoples in Denmark,
> >Holland, Germany, US, Great Britain, Canada, and France who are
> >coerced to fund public education for the poor!
Ever wonder why we have to have border guards to keep out
Mexicans but not Canadians? Is it because Canadians are
so much better off under capitalism and them Mexicans are
slaves of socialism? Bzzt. Not. It's because of the
promise of political equality under democracy that makes
us great... a promise that is being ripped apart by all
the cowards who are afraid that the "ignorant" masses
might actually get freedom of speech, so they resort to
economic censorship. So what happens? Crime. Ignorance.
Because the rich fear an educated poor man as much as
the powerful fear an educated powerless man. Why? Fooled
by the lamest misinterpretation of Darwinism that societies
exist in order to foster Competition (TM) among its members.
-------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
29.3.97 17:03 Our precious pilgrims.
29.3.97 17:12 Someone is stupid, but who?
31.3.97 Racism and immigration become irrelavent.
7.4.97 Which country is better.
14.4.97 17:23 Self-censorship, low morale, and stale ideas.
14.4.97 17:33 It is the Land of Opportunity.
From: "J. Hancock" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.libertarian,misc.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.economics,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:45:37 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
David Wilkinson wrote:
> Diversity sounds tolerant which is why it is always used in these discussions. The
> reality is that it is a code word for the internationalist despots who rule our
> universities with an iron hand and the liberal democrats and who have always hated and
> admitted doing so (at least as far as they could admit that a coherant definition of
> America existed). Real diversity or tolerance is the last thing they have in mind.
So what do you propose as the solution? Perhaps a real
representative democracy? In which managers are elected
rather than appointed? Nah, despots don't believe in
democracy. Perhaps real freedom of speech? In which nobody
is silenced by expulsion, layoffs, imprisonment, or execution?
Nah, autocrats don't believe in freedom of speech. Perhaps
a society based less on capitalist competition and more on
cooperation? Whoa, no way, Darwin (TM) said all animals
must compete against their peers. Darwin said flocks, herds,
packs, hives, swarms, civilizations don't actually exist and
aren't actually more fit to survive. Fucking idiots.
-------
Money is more genetic than intelligence.
From: "J. Hancock" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.society.labor-unions,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:33:39 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo wrote:
> Absolutely, I am totally unable to comprehend the goodness of parroting back
> what you have been brainwashed to say since birth - immigration is America's
> salvation.
Yes, indeed it is one of the major factors. Immigrants bring new
ideas and non-complacency. All success needs is the recognition
that everyone is wrong in one way, and right in another.
Immigrants have plenty of that. Only complacent conservative
idiots like you do not. Of course, immigrants only come here
because they are fooled by all our marketing into thinking
that it is the Land of Opportunity (TM). It stopped being that
the day capitalism killed democracy. So why don't all the
democratic socialist European nations advertise their
democracy? They are cowards. We're the bully on the block
with the biggest baseball bat. They last thing we want to
do is stoop to learning from them.
------------------------------------
"So far from God, so close to the United States"
-- Old Mexican proverb
From: "J. Hancock" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.society.labor-unions,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:23:04 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo wrote:
> : By the way, how do you define "mainstream American culture"?
> Mainstream American culture would be the culture practiced by the majority
> of American. For instance, at this point, mexican gangs and their evil and
> despicable ways, are not mainstream. However, as they infest by the never
> ending millions, we can look forward to the first non-English immigrants
> contributing to mainstream American culture.
You are SUCH a pawn. "Human resources" is only a contradiction
in terms under capitalism. Only under capitalism will your
never ending millions put you out of work. Only capitalists
love it when their pawns are too busy fighting each other to
look at the top of the Tower of Babel. Why do you think so
many companies are run with shared resources? Wouldn't hiring
a new employee put another out of work? Not if what that
new employee produces benefits everyone. The biggest mistake
of most companies, of course, is that they have blindly
adopted "communist" autocracy. Dooming employees to self-
censorship, low morale, and stale ideas.
From: "H. Stowe" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.immigration.usa,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:37:10 -0700
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
MiChAeL wrote:
> Absolutely correct. This country's might relies upon and stems from
> cheap labor within and outside the US. Some call it neo-collonialism,
> some imperialism, whatever it is it works for the good of this nation.
> Whetehr it is OK, and whetehr other nations lose something that is a
> totaly differnet ball game.
> Consider that only 1% of this nation holds 99% of its wealth and
> everything is explained.
That depends, of course, on what you consider to be wealth.
In terms of paper money or "precious" metals, maybe. In
terms of human labor, raw materials, "equipment", and an
educated workforce... well, there are a whole lot of better
educated and healthier people in other nations either due
to more democracy or more communism. The point, however,
isn't even which country is "better". The point, is that
these other countries can either be trying to help us, or
trying to fight us.
--------
Carry a big stick, but offer a bigger carrot.
From: "D. Gale" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.society.labor-unions,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:59:35 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo wrote:
> Are you for or against the Third World Flood and mexican infestation, H.C.?
Racism and immigration will become irrelavent the
day we end capitalism and autocracy without violence.
Of course, neither capitalists nor autocrats want to
do that, because their systems are based on economic
or political competition, and they're afraid that if
they turn back, they will look like fools.
----------
I'm surrounded by scarecrows, lions, and tin men.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.society.labor-unions,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:12:21 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
David Smith at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo wrote:
> Your comparison was of no help in understanding the situation. To this point,
> there is state in the United States that predominantly speaks a different
> language, and wants to form it's own country. Given the severity and
> never ending nature of the mexican infestation, your dream may yet see the
> light of day. Imagine being able to hit mexico hundreds of miles sooner on
> your yearly "relaxation trips" to the land of the mexican.
Language shmanguage. Why does Quebec want to break from Canada
but Russia want to join NATO? Someone is being stupid here,
but who? A group wants to break away only because of one thing:
Oppression. A group wants to join only because of one thing:
Cooperation. Why do companies merge? To SHARE knowledge. They
KNOW by working together, NOBODY would have to reinvent the
wheel. Why do companies break apart? Stupid managers. Because
there isn't enough democracy nor freedom of debate, and thus
good ideas were killed, and could only be implemented outside.
It's time to put an end to all this lame peer competition.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.society.labor-unions,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Diverse America is and has always been working
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:03:49 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Laura Finsten wrote:
> Well, the number of "Americans" before the Alama was even fewer. So how
> to explain the changes over the centuries? One population grew only by
> illegal immigration, the other only by legal immigration and increased
> birth rates?
Who CARES how they got here? Whether by birth or movement. It's
only illegal because laws say it's "illegal". It becomes legal
as soon as the law says it's legal. The REAL question is, do we
want them? Who has the gumption to break immigration laws? Who
has the getup&go to leave for a new country? THESE are the people
with guts AND courage. THESE are the people, like our precious
pilgrims that braved adversity. So what do we do? Deny them
welfare and an education? So instead of a worker with a lot of
gumption, we get a criminal with a lot of gumption. TOTAL
stupidity.
Valuable resources are being wasted WASTED on border patrols
and lame walls. These resources could be spent so much more
efficiently TEACHING the people in those countries... so they
can increase their OWN production without having to come here.
New production benefits EVERYONE... or it would benefit
everyone, if only we didn't live in a society based on
competition.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.medicine,alt.society.labor-unions
Subject: Re: The nature of rights
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 16:07:52 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
James A. Donald wrote:
> > The framework is decided upon by people, as are the rights.
> We have been through this before. The German majority decided that
> Jews had no rights. Therefore eradication of the jews was not a
> rights violation? Right?
Hitler was able to take advantage of the capitalist economic
downturn and fool the people because he too was a fool. The
worldwide collapse of stock markets and run on the banks
was only an ILLUSION of poverty. Nothing but numbers going
up in smoke. All the world's resources were still there, all
the knowledge, all the labor.
Eisenhower was correct about the military-industrial complex.
Peace through sticks led to the Cold War. What we need is
a peacetime-industrial complex. Peace through carrots. What
FDR did to support the war effort, we can focus into
education and research instead. We can GIVE that knowledge
away, even to reluctant enemies. It costs us almost nothing
to share knowledge. Knowledge produces more knowledge, no
matter where in the globe it is. We can turn this entire
society around. But we must NEVER deny freedom of
expression, not even to our "opponents". It's THAT FEAR of
the loss of individual liberties that led to the death of
JFK. We're ALL on the same side. On the other side stands
poverty and warfare. THAT is our target.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.correct,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,austin.general,alt.politics.socialism,soc.religion.quaker,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Prisons -- a failed concept.
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:16:00 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Gerry Palo wrote:
> The question of imprisonment revolves around this question of mercy. Can
> imprisonment be the merciful thing to do? If the prison is truly a
> penitentiary, which none seem to be today, then it very well can be. If
> not, then the fact of unmerciful imprisonment remains as one of those
> things that all the idealistic thinking in the world is yet unable to do
> away with.
The justice system is meant to be an organ of crime prevention.
But you can't prevent crime if people disagree with the laws.
What the justice system is missing is REAL freedom of debate.
If both punisher and punishee thinks he's right, then NOTHING
at all has been prevented. The crime WILL be committed again.
What we should REALLY do is give these criminals not only an
education but a JOB as well. Show them how EASY it is to
make a living without having to fight gangs of cops or pushers.
The only problem, of course, is that we live under capitalism.
Employing prisoners will just put us normal folk out of work,
and into this sad system of welfare and education that
capitalism has left us.
From: "H.C. Andersen" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.journalism,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.socialism,talk.politics.libertarian,uwm.general,uwisc.general,uwisc.forum
Subject: Re: Republicanism Explained in 50 Words or Less (was Re: The Impeachment Story)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:50:13 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
Richard C. Webb wrote:
> > No. The "Christian" Coalition is a GOP front organization. The Democrats
> > generally have little to do with those people. Of course, Susan Smith's
> > family may be an extreme case, but it's clear that the CC ideology permits
> > a rather flexible morality when it comes to sex with children.
> Will you acknowledge that the ACLU, the NOW, Planned Parenthood and the
> unions are Democrat party front organizations?
And the ACLU is against campaign finance reform. Against
freedom of speech for the poor. Pah. Who the fuck cares
WHAT party you belong to? Only mindless sheep believe in
every plank of their own party's platform. People should
be judged individually, not based on their race, creed,
gender, or political party. In fact, statements in the
past should be judged separately from the speaker. Real
debate and real education cannot occur unless people are
forgiven for realizing their past mistakes, and ENCOURAGED
to keep debating and keep learning.
-----
Thou shalt not make any graven image,
or bow down before any creation in heaven or on earth.
26.3.97 Still harping about taxes.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-left,alt.education.alternative,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.education,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Public Education problems and solutions: Clinton/Tucker Plan
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:48:12 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
mvilkin@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Unionised public teachers are occupied mostly with their benefits.
> Kids are graduating without lerning simple things.
Teachers wouldn't have to unionize if they actually had
democracy and could VOTE for their supervisors from among
their peers... not to mention how much supervisors should
be paid. Then, they might actually AGREE with the policy
that they have to carry out. Then, they might actually
SPEND TIME coming up with real solutions, because freedom
of debate will get good ideas both heard AND elected.
And there won't be no damned supervisor taking all the
credit.
> A proof? Just read the newsgroups. People are asking to increase
> minimum wages, for example (read my article "Minimum wages").
And people are asking to lower taxes. Duh. Both cause
inflation. Capitalist fools keep mucking around with
more money here or there, when all it does is cause
inflation in the products for whatever class is supposed
to benefit. It's not more CURRENCY that makes society
better, it's more KNOWLEDGE.
From: "H. Mencken" cyu@geocities.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.radical-left,alt.education.alternative,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.politics.socialism,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,misc.education,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Public Education problems and solutions: Clinton/Tucker Plan
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:00:22 -0800
Organization: Church of Scientology, Intimidation, and Vast Profits, Inc.
J. Kendrick McPeters wrote:
> Really? That's odd... I always figured that an armed revolt woult
> take place when taxes are raised to 70% (or higher) to redeem the
> bankrupt promises of your beloved welfare state.
Can't believe fiscal conservatives are still harping about
taxes. Face it, a tax cut isn't much different from a rise
in the minimum wage. It'll probably disappear under
inflation.
If you REALLY want a better life, then you would support
education, because THAT is what produces knowledge and
THAT is what makes our lives better than 100 years ago.
But the biggest drawback to public education is that we
all live under capitalism. If they get too smart, they'll
steal our jobs.
cyu@oz.net
[email/finger/index]
cyu@oz.net
[email/finger/index]
