p a n d e m o n i u m
  Tuesday Evening International AOL Chat
                                   Carl (Teaneck, USA),
                                  Iris (Freiburg),
                                Stella (Mainz),
                              Khalid (Toronto),
                            Franz (Merida, Venezuela).

         Orwell Today: Personal Life Experiences -
                            Franz - Part II: 1960 - 1962
                      (This Chat I dedicate to my son, Franz Lee, Jr.)

10th October, 2000



You have just entered room "panta98 Chat14."

USUAL PRELUDE

naranjahit has entered the room.

naranjahit: Franz, I am here.
panta98: Wait, please.
naranjahit: Carl and Iris are waiting .

CarlZim8 has entered the room.

naranjahit: Hi Carl!
CarlZim8: Hi, Stella
CarlZim8:Hi, Franz

Einai2000 has entered the room.

CarlZim8:Where is Iris?
naranjahit:Is this colour OK?
panta98: Just a minute, trying to invite Iris!
Einai2000:al fin!!!!
CarlZim8:Hi, Iris
naranjahit:Iris
 

INTRODUCTION OF CHAT TOPIC
 

panta98:OK! Welcome aboard!! Good Evening!!!

panta98: Well, without much ado, let's begin!
Einai2000: Alright, go ahead Franz!
panta98: As stated before, between 1960 and 1962, I was living in Cape Town, during the day
working as an office clerk, and at night studying. What I learned about life in that beautiful city
we'll chat about tonight.
CarlZim8: Stella, I added your buddy nane naranjahit to my AOL buddy list. Please addc my
name CarlZim8 to your list too.
panta98: I was confronted with the dilemma of modern education: to think or not to think. That
was the question! And I had to take up arms against a sea of troubles.
naranjahit: I will do so, Carl.
panta98:Already then, I was wondering about the term and the conceptual contents of "education". I was asking myself why everybody wants to be educated, well-educated.
panta98: I also was thinking who governs, guides education? I wanted to know, if education could
be manipulated, or whether it is manipulation per se.
panta98: I was not sure whether education was really the best thing for me, for anybody for that
matter. But, I had no alternative. I wanted to be educated. Someone, some book, some brilliant
genius should educate, conscientize me.
panta98: I tried my best at self-"education"; but my "education" clashed with the accepted ideas
of education. I realized, that like any thing else in the "socialization" process, education has its do's and dont's, regulated by the government, by schools, universities and teachers.
panta98: I didn't like this idea at all. But, I had to go through the educational mills of apartheid,
there was no other institution to "educate" me. The revolutionaries all had enjoyed Western,
Christian Education and Culture.
Einai2000: Quite important point, Franz!
panta98: Now, before we continue, I would like to know your views about the education enigma!

frogmobile has entered the room.

panta98: Khalid, I'll paste what I said before.
naranjahit: Hello Khalid!
frogmobile: Hi there, folks, now who is naranjahit?
naranjahit: Stella.
frogmobile: ha! ha!
CarlZim8: Hi, Khalid
frogmobile: okay
frogmobile: Where is Iris?
Einai2000: Education, in the beloved Patria, is what your students are demonstrating with excellence,
Franz: learning by heart all those "absolute truths"... like parrots...
Einai2000: Good evening, Khalid!

panta98 has left the room.

frogmobile: HI, Stella
frogmobile: Hello, Iris
Einai2000: outrageous connectivity ...  carramba...
frogmobile: Hi Carl
CarlZim8: I will save the chat
Einai2000: Glad you could make it, Khalid - I"ll reinvite Franz
CarlZim8: Hi, Khalid
frogmobile: okay.

panta98 has left the room.

frogmobile: Carl and Stella I will now make note of your buddy names.
Einai2000: ?? What is this? How can Franz leave the room twice if he hasn"t been in two times???

panta98 has entered the room.

Einai2000: Franz! Welcome back!
panta98: AOL just threw me out!
CarlZim8: Welcome to AOL.
panta98: Iris, please paste my introduction back for Khalid to read.
Einai2000: you stepped out twice, Franz... or you and a AOL clone, who knows...
frogmobile: probably the clone.
panta98: Who knows? Who am I? Who is Who Still?
Einai2000: OK!
Einai2000:As stated before, between 1960 and 1962, I was living in Cape Town, during the day working as an office clerk, and at night studying. What I learned about life in that beautiful city we'll chat about tonight.
panta98:I'm listening.
Einai2000:I was confronted with the dilemma of modern education: to think or not to think. That was the question! And I had to take up arms against a sea of troubles.
Einai2000:panta98:Already then, I was wondering about the term and the conceptual contents "education". I was asking myself why everybody wants to be educated, well-educated.
panta98:I'm reading ....
Einai2000:panta98:I also was thinking who governs, guides education? I wanted to know, if education could be manipulated, or whether it is manipulation per se.
panta98:I agree ...
panta98:Proceed ...
Einai2000:panta98:I was not sure whether education was really the best thing for me, for anybody for that matter. But, I had no alternative. I wanted to be educated
Einai2000:Someone, some book, some brilliant genius should educate, conscientize me.
panta98:Any comments, up to this point, Khalid?
Einai2000:I tried my best at self-"education"; but my "education" clashed with the accepted ideas of education.
Einai2000:I realized, that like any thing else in the "socialization" process, education has its do's and dont's, regulated by the government, by schools, universities and teachers.
CarlZim8:It is manipulation = mind control = labor = alienation.
panta98:D'accord, Carl. That's the "Formula 1".
Einai2000:panta98:I didn't like this idea at all. But, I had to go through the educational mills of apartheid, there was no other institution to "educate" me.
Einai2000:The revolutionaries all had enjoyed Western, Christian Education and Culture.
panta98:Proceed ....
Einai2000:panta98:Now, before we continue, I would like to know your views about the education enigma!
panta98:Before I proceed, Any Comments? Views"
Einai2000:ok.
CarlZim8: Today, in the USA, there are some attempts to emancipate education.
panta98: Carl, later we'll come to the relation Education - Emancipation. I proceeed ....
frogmobile:Franz, you'll recall I had similar questions and concerns about education, which we discussed years ago, and finally, I decided to go to University;  but of no avail.
panta98:Yes, Khalid, I remember that very well.
CarlZim8: School in the home.
panta98:To demonstrate my precarious situation, let's use "Bantu Education" as a typical example of global education, when the system finds itself in a dangerous crisis, that is, let's put Fascist, Nazi, Apartheid Education For Barbarism into labour focus, within the framework of Orwell's 1984, ...
panta98:... to see exactly how we "think", what we have enjoyed till now, are still celebrating, and what awaits us around the corner in Global, Globalized Education.
panta98:As we know, after the Second "World War", in 1948, in South Africa, the Boer "National Party" came into power, under the leadership of Daniel Francois Malan.
frogmobile: Yesterday Americans celebrated Columbus Day, glorifying his "barbarism" and exploits of native peoples.
panta98:Hence, Nazism and Fascism were introduced into South Africa under the auspices of Christian Nationalism. However, in 1948, at the age of ten, while Orwell was still writing his famous work, I had no idea whatsoever about anything in political matters.
CarlZim8:That's why there is alternative education on the Internet.
panta98: More about that later, Carl.
panta98:Nonetheless, ever since 1960, working in Cape Town, I began to understand a few fundamental principles of colonialism, neocolonialism and apartheid, ...
panta98:... that behind the refusal to allow a "non-white" or a "black" to enter the same public bus, rest room, train or taxi, the same park, zoological or botanical garden, or the same concert, beach or church as a "white" or "European", ....
panta98:.. that behind these all, lies a complex system of economic exploitation, political domination, social discrimination and human degradation.
panta98:Progressively, in years to come, I would learn, that this labour system would be called capitalism, neo-capitalism, post-modern capitalism, post-industrial society, the New World Order.
CarlZim8:We had that in the South USA in 1948 - Jim Crow.
panta98:Till here, any brain-waves?
Einai2000:Yes, this is called "el dia de la raza" here in Venezuela as you might remember, Khalid ... and Franz, please, proceed first.
panta98:Don't forget later, in the general chat period, to inform us about that, Carl.
frogmobile: Similar to what is happening in the occupied terrorities in Gaza and the West Bank.
panta98:Yes, Zionism had an intimate link with Apartheid.
CarlZim8:Not entirely, Khalid
panta98:Why, Carl?
CarlZim8:The link of Zionism with Apartheid was convenience.
frogmobile:Any people that lives under occupation has the right to use whatever means necessary to free and liberate themselves.
panta98:Their intelligence service, their atomic bomb scientists, all worked together, Carl.
CarlZim8:Because nobody else would work with them.
panta98:What South Africa was for the USA at the foot of the Dark Continent; Israel is still in the Middle East.
frogmobile:Unfortunately they have only bricks and and light weapons yet they are all labelled terrorists.
panta98:D'accord, Khalid. But, let me proceed .....
CarlZim8:The Palestinian youngsters learned resistance in Israeli schools and at the Ben Zeit University in Israel.
panta98:In those day, in South Africa, "racial discrimination" was called "baasskap" (boss-ship), "separate development" or "apartheid".
panta98:I just were smelling something fishy in the air, thinking about my English set-work, "Great Expectations". Before me, out of Nothing, a next "Copernican Revolution" was dawning,
panta98:.. ushering in vast radical changes, which would overturn all paradigms, dimensions and parameters, ushering in a reality which few would ever daydream about.
frogmobile:The exploitors and repressors are pictured as the "good guys" who are doing their best for "peace".
frogmobile: and also as the victims.
Einai2000:...we learn resistance and more in our Pandemonium University ;-)
panta98:Fine, Khalid.
Einai2000: ok, please proceed...
CarlZim8:It's more complicated, Khalid
panta98:Then already, now integrated into the urban industrial labour force, and continuing my private university studies, I noticed that the still existing system was robbing millions of socially discriminated "non-white" people of their land and produce; ...
panta98:... that it forced them to live in poverty, misery and disease; that it denied them "modern education", intellectual, philosophical and technological training; ...
panta98:... that it herded them like cattle into slums, ghettos, labour camps, overcrowded reserves and "Bantustans"; it cut them off from any sort of "democratic" expression, from "freedom" of speech, press and mobility.
frogmobile:Its not, Carl. The repressors want us to think that it is very complicated and difficult so as to justify their murder and pillage.
panta98:I saw the others who were living from the fat of the land, enjoying "milk and honey", living in wonderland.
panta98:And I asked the Lord why it should be so, why he allows such inequality, slavery and misery. As usual, he had no answer whatsoever. Silence is golden, is aristocratic, is republican, is Platonic.
frogmobile: I agree Franz.
panta98:Carl & Khalid, exactly this I'll explain.
CarlZim8:The global powers would demand enslavement of the Palestinians as the price for the destruction of Israel
frogmobile:Nope! We were told that God cares.
panta98:Every Boer politician spoke about "native rights"; I saw none, nowhere. I began to ask myself: Are they telling lies? Why? Generally, I knew that lies always hide something, that often is of a pecuniary nature, guaranteeing special social privileges.
panta98:What are their real interests? Whose interests are the Boers defending as an Apartheid State? Why are the "blacks" rebelling? Why can't I get a free, decent education? Where are my "human rights"?
Einai2000: Those were your human rights, Franz...
panta98:Iris, agreed. Orwell and Huxley already gave answers; but their books were forbidden in South Africa.
frogmobile:There is no such thing as human rights.
panta98:At last, in 1960, I noticed that the most effective instrument used to achieve these ends was the enslavement of the "non-white" mind, by inculcating an inferiority complex, a pariah mentality into its very soul. More then ever, I wanted to study, to fight against this mental obscurantism, this national intellectual obliteration.
CarlZim8: Khalid, both sides give propaganda bullsheisse.
panta98:Yes, Khalid. Only Capital Rights!
frogmobile:But one of them is the occupier of another through the barrel of the gun.
panta98:Of course, today we call it mind and thought control; a more precise concept is ideology - intellectual manipulation and indoctrination, brain-washing, mind-laundering. In short: public education.
panta98:Yes, Khalid, education when it is successful prevents that something comes out of the barrel of the gun.
Einai2000:...from the cradle to the grave... throughout the de-socialization process...
panta98:On the one hand, the Apartheid government attacked overseas countries, declaring them as enemies of South Africa, who were imposing sanctions on us, and that were ignorant of the real internal state of affairs.
Einai2000:...with your caring fathers as representative overlords ... very nice...
panta98: On the other hand, the government "loved" its "natives" and it did everything for their own benefit, for their common good, their social welfare.
frogmobile: remember how we in Guyana too were "occupied" by the British.
Einai2000: Franz: you said: to US ...
Einai2000: to whom did you refer to?
panta98: "Us" meant We, South Africans (from whom, as usual, of course, all 'non-whites'  were excluded) ... yes, Khalid, occupied by the Dutch, and soon by the Venezuelans.
CarlZim8: Isn't Guyana occupied by the NWO today?
Einai2000:please, say this more precise for me?
panta98: Yes, Carl. Also, on the other hand, "non-white" political demagogues told us about our "friends" overseas, about many peace- and freedom-loving peoples, about "democracies" like England and the USA. Mandela himself was fascinated by the British political system.
panta98:I'll proceed ...  later we'll attend to these crucial questions. Don't forget them.
panta98:Also, our leaders planned to get "scholarships" for us, to study in England or Germany, where everybody enjoys a decent, real, true education, according to modern standards. They spoke about a "free world", about "democratic rights".
frogmobile: however, in the days of colonialism, leaders were labelled as revolutionaries but today those in Gaza and the West Bank are called Terrorists.
panta98:Well, Khalid "revolution" is capitalist; the "reign of terror" is capitalist; the guillotine is bourgeois-democratic. Don't you remember that?
frogmobile:Of course, but just look how conveniently they twist and turn the meanings of the "terms" to suit their own propaganda campaign.
panta98:Agreed, Khalid.
panta98:Anyhow, continuing ... Poor me! I believed in all this, in all fairy tales that would change my current misery. I could not quite differentiate between faked "beliefs" and real knowledge. I still knew too little, but I was on my way.
panta98:And I was dreaming about studying at a decent European university, taught by erudite professors, where nobody would discriminate me - to enjoy intellectual creativity, freedom of speech, thought and expression.
panta98:That's what Stella & Iris are enjoying at present in Mainz and Freiburg.
Einai2000:...Wow, decent university, maybe there was such a thing when you studied, Franz....
naranjahitExactly!
panta98:A priori, transhistorically, I was daydreaming about sitting in the political, economic, sociological and philosophical classes of Ernst Bloch, Theodor W. Adorno, Max Horkheimer, Juergen Habermas, Herbert Marcuse, Iring Fetscher and Ernest Mandel.
panta98:At least, my darling "guardian angel" did me a great favour, by guiding me stubbornly straight toward already rapidly fading intellectual bliss. She, my angel, warned me that those few professors would be the "last of their race".
panta98:Little did I know, that, eventually, I myself would become that what I was dreaming about; of course, then I did not have the foggiest notion about the "future" chain of events, ...
panta98:... about my political sojourn of roaming across the globe, begging for a transeunte visa from place to place.
panta98:Also, I couldn't know how few real, true students I ever would encounter in life. Also, I didn't know yet the social causes of such intellectual lethargy, smugness and prostration.
panta98:I still underestimated the mortal effects, fatal tenacity and lethal strychnine of educational ideology.
Einai2000: prostration -- sorry, what does this mean?
frogmobile: because it serves the purpose of the ruling elite
naranjahit: Niedergeschlagenheit.
Einai2000:Thank you, Stella!
panta98:Carl, please explain it to Iris.
naranjahit: I'm using my "Babylon".
Einai2000: ya esta, Franz
panta98:Excellent, Stella.
panta98:Once it has entered the human mind, it is well-nigh impossible to neutralize it in a lifetime. I still wanted to waste my precious lifetime to convince, to conscientize, to mobilize, to educate my fellow(wo)men, the masses, the people.
panta98:Needless to say, I was still confirming and affirming the reigning system, including its educational system, completely. How could it be otherwise?
panta98:I believed in God, that His Will would govern everything towards the "highest good", for the "best" of mankind. I believed that within this context, ONLY from WITHIN, the system could be reformed, be improved, be changed.
panta98:Today still, billions are getting stuck in the stinking mud of this sewerage system, in this pestilent quagmire, in this heinous degree of skimpy consciousness and scanty knowledge, thanks to virulent education, virile ideology and vile mind and body control, ...
Einai2000:Truly so, Franz. One has to go through all this in one way or the other, step by step...
panta98:... without ever being able to acquire a minimum chance of transcending their earthly labour hell and heavenly alienation misery.
frogmobile: And yet no one cares!
panta98:This was heavy stuff; any preliminary remarks, before I continue.
panta98:Correctly so, Khalid.
Einai2000:Are We "no one", guys???
frogmobile: Oops! you "gat" me there, Iris.
panta98:I sometimes wonder about that, Iris.
panta98:Poor, Khalid. Don't punch my skinny guy so hard!
Einai2000:Well, I think this is what it's all about..
Einai2000:Pardon, Franz?
panta98:Let's proceed ....
frogmobile: Ouch! I feel it man
Einai2000: ok...
panta98:After having digested all this necessary background information, now, let's see de facto et de jure , "concretely" what "education" was all about, and still is, in South Africa. Perhaps, from it, we could deduce bitter lessons that explain global reality elsewhere.
panta98:Also, as long as elites, Herrenvolk, Illuminati exist, let's see what education always will mean on a global, even galactic plane. Yes, the proud educators themselves have humbly to be de-educated, dis-educated!
panta98:Of course, we respect any views that differ from ours -- this is the reason why we can state what we like.
Einai2000:Sorry, but this would be their own job, Franz...
Einai2000:Please, proceed.
panta98:Getting back to the facts .... In Malan's government, Dr. Hendrik "Frikkie" Verwoerd , who had studied Psychology in Nazi Germany, was Minister For Native Affairs.
panta98:The policy of "Bantu Education" was Verwoerd's solution to the "native question", to the threat of the "swarte gevaar" (black danger) to "white civilization". All Neo-Calvinist Boers feared a possible future "coffee brown" nation, not yet a "rainbow nation".
panta98:At first glance, it seemed that the introduction of Bantu Education was nothing else than an artificial resuscitation of outmoded tribalism; however, in reality, there was much more behind this policy.
panta98:In 1953, in a speech in parliament, the Nazi architect of apartheid, Verwoerd, expressed it as follows: ...
panta98:... "There is no place for him (the native) in the European community above the level of certain forms of labour."
panta98:Well, well. A brilliant Nazi who studied Psychology in Hitler's Germany should know it. Verwoerd touched the quintessential point of education: exploitation of labour, of "native" labour power.
panta98:Further, it was stated: "What's the sense of teaching a native mathematics, when he'll never use it in his adult life."
panta98:He also explained that "natives" are simply "grazing cattle": "Until now he has been subjected to a school system which drew him away from his own community and misled him by showing him the green pastures of European society in which he was not allowed to graze."
panta98:Whatamansay!! In the document, "Bantu Education Policy", Verwoerd wrote: "Bantu education should stand with both feet in the reserves and have its roots in the spirit and being of Bantu society."
panta98:The crux of the matter, which is valid for education on a global scale: "Their education should not clash with Government policy."
panta98:About the future, also about the future of the contemporary "global proles",
panta98:Verwoerd let the famous Schrödinger’s Cat out of the Globalized Pandora Box: ...
panta98:... "If the native in South Africa today ... is being taught to expect that he will live his adult life under a policy of equal rights, he is making a big mistake."
panta98:You were right, Khalid. Human Rights are BS!
panta98:The next premier, J. G. Strijdom, explained what type of "education" the "natives" should receive: ...
panta98:... "Our policy is that the Europeans must stand their ground and must remain Baas (overlord) in South Africa. If we reject the Herrenvolk (master race) idea and the principle that the white man can remain Baas, ...
panta98:... if the franchise is to be extended to the non-Europeans, and if the non-Europeans are given representation, ... how can the Europeans remain Baas?"
panta98:The next president, C. R. Swart, explained to us what is a "good native":
panta98:" ... (blacks) should learn to be good natives as tribal natives and should not be imitators of the white man. ... this is the only sound policy."
panta98:Well, folks, a "good native" is a "dead native".
panta98:In 1953, the "Bantu Education Act" was passed in parliament, and it legitimized the Native Affairs Department to direct the acting, thinking, aspirations and future happiness of the then over 15 million "blacks".
panta98:For other sections of the "non-white" population similar departments and education were developed.
panta98:In 1966, in New York City, in a public lecture I stated: "Bantu education is designed to retribalize the African, to form him as potential cheap labourer, to enslave his mind, and to kill every sign or spark of revolutionary fire in him."
panta98:I also stated: "After Hitler, Verwoerd believed: 'If you want to control a people, you must get hold of their education.'" Like Hitler, this the colonialists, the missionaries -- and now the Illuminati -- always knew.
panta98:You, guys, still reading .... or totally shocked??
Einai2000: ...or, referring to your comment above, Franz: only in other words: these are the "human rights", the rights of the "humans", understood as being the "speaking tools" as Aristoteles called them... And on education: this is precisely what education is all about, Bantu education on a world scale, Bantu Philosophy...
naranjahit:reading, enjoying ....
panta98:After all, this is the ultima ratio of all ruling class educational systems. Read your Plato, The Republic.
CarlZim8: Listening.
panta98:Bantu education demonstrated how the educational system sieves out the various victims for specific types of labour.
Einai2000: reading AND shocked, apart from the fact that some of the these quotations sound familiar to me, Franz
panta98:Primary and secondary education were not compulsory for "blacks". One in ever 200 "blacks" actually completed the fifth year of schooling. The rest were "material" par excellence , were cheap physical labourers for the farms and mines.
CarlZim8:Agreed, Franz
panta98:They could just about read a few simple, short, formal-logical sentences, count to 100, sign their names, and understand the orders of their white masters.
CarlZim8:Same in the South USA in 1948.
panta98:Yes, Carl. it was all that "bad".
CarlZim8: Very Bad!
panta98:In the primary and secondary schools an inordinate time was given to religious instruction - the "opium" most fitted to keep them docile, meek, humble, and contented with their lot. In short: to religious "brain-washing".
panta98:The longest teaching time was given to manual training and physical exercises. The pupil had to learn how to use a broom, pick or shovel scientifically -- and there was plenty of practice.
panta98:In History, the "blacks" had to learn what ferocious, blood-sucking ancestors, like Chaka and Dingaan, they had; also how brave the Voortrekkers, Piet Retief and the rest were. Of course, like Hegel's Great World Spirit, "Great Whites" made "History", and brought "civilization" to Africa and to Mankind.
panta98:In typical "newspeak" style, special textbooks were written for "blacks" in a pseudo-African language called a vernacular. Language was fabricated by civil servants.
panta98:And then censorship prevailed. 20 000 international books were banned in South Africa. The public libraries came under the axe of apartheid; it was a crime to read "Black Beauty", Bertrand Russell, Marx, etc.
CarlZim8:  Even in The Bronx, USA, in 1948, the manual labor consisted mostly of Blacks.
panta98:At the university level, in segregated institutions, the very same system prevailed. In 1965, of a "white" population of about 3.5 million, 33,526 students attended university; of about 15 million "blacks", only 946 attended "tribal universities".
panta98:Yes, Carl. I'm giving you the data of "education".
panta98:Nobody wanted "Bantu", "Coloured" or "Indian" education. From one end of the country to the other, it had to be bolstered up with police force, machine-guns, with an army and a galaxy of "racist" laws.
CarlZim8:Fortunately, book banning was insignificant in USA.
panta98:The crux of the matter is that everything that happened in Apartheid South Africa was linked to the central issue of channelling cheap black physical labour force into the mines, farms, factories and industries.
panta98:And this applies to "post-modern" education everywhere today.
panta98:Today, because this priority has become obsolete, even Apartheid had to believe in it.
Einai2000:And Orwelldescribes precisely this, the "content", tasks and objectives of a "Crimestop" -- it includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.
panta98: Bravo, girl, you did your "home-work"! For the time being, this central issue continues, enabling Mbeki's "Black Middle Class" to flourish, also enabling Clinton's and Bush's Global Post-Industrial Capital still to reap the last desired fruits of their labour, ...
Einai2000: .. task and objectives of education...
panta98:Well quoted, Iris. that's the essence of "education".
Einai2000: page 175...
Einai2000: forgot the quotation marks.
panta98:continuing ... ... in thanksgiving for having relinquished so peace-lovingly the hated Apartheid System and the infamous Wall Of Berlin.
CarlZim8: Wall of the Minds - still exist today.
panta98:Sorry folks, that's all for now: That's it for today. Next time, I'll continue with my global adventure to receive a decent "education". Now, let's continue our chat about "education" as an instrument to enslave the human mind, serving mind and thought control, newspeak.
panta98:Now, I'm listening, sitting back, reading your comments. ....
CarlZim8:In Russia today, education = State's religion.
panta98:Interesting observation, Carl.
panta98:The Wall of Mind Control, of Ideology!
panta98:Well,
panta98: they got back to feudalism, to Czarism.
panta98:From Leningrad to St. Petersburg!!
CarlZim8:However, in the USA, we are experimenting with some emancipatory education.
panta98:Quite "one step forward, three steps backwards".
Einai2000:Carl, could you please explain?
CarlZim8: From Baltic to Samarkand.
panta98:Be careful that we don't step backward from the Bush into the Biblical "Burning Bush".
CarlZim8:Iris, the Russian Empire still exists - Everyone speaks Russian.
Einai2000:Where, at which university could one receive this emancipatory education?
panta98:Well, the poor "Bushmen".
panta98:P. U. -- guess where that is?
Einai2000: PU?
CarlZim8:Iris, in the Home and Internet, not University.
Einai2000: Peoples University?
panta98: No, continue guessing. ....
Einai2000: Franz? Sorry?
CarlZim8: Individual university.
Einai2000: But you said, Carl, thay are experimenting in the USA?
CarlZim8: Yep.
panta98: On the Internet: Pandemonium University of Prof. Coseino!!!
CarlZim8: Agreed, Franz
Einai2000: but this is not in the USA, as far as I know?
panta98: Nowhere else, my dear!
CarlZim8: It's in the USA.

panta98 has left the room.

Einai2000: But were, Carl? I"d like to visit that place and check it out.
Einai2000:  place or site...
Einai2000: Will reinvite, Franz..

panta98 has entered the room.

Einai2000: OK, I invited Franz.
panta98:Interesting what AOL does to me.
Einai2000: back again, Franz!
panta98:Khalid, tell me something nice about your educational experiences.
CarlZim8:Iris, you will have to visit the homes in the USA. ... I will search for the site URL's.
CarlZim8:Please proceed, Khalid
panta98:Did you still read my previous last sentence? : panta98:On the Internet: Pandemonium University of Prof. Coseino!!!
Einai2000:Of course I did, Franz!
CarlZim8:Yep, Franz.
panta98:Khalid, what about education in British Guiana?
panta98:And now in British Canada?
CarlZim8:Please proceed, Khalid
panta98:Or in French Canada?
Einai2000:Ok, Carl.
panta98:Stella, you enjoy your German university education?
frogmobile:The experiences are very similar, but different. It was a subtle but very "discriminatory road to the top." I had to fight against the "lies that my teachers taught me", like any other "Third World" student studying in a developed country.
naranjahit: sure!;-)
panta98:AOL messing around again.
panta98:Can't read your latest messages.
panta98:Well, there they come again.
Einai2000: frogmobile: The experiences are very similar but different. It was a subtle but very
"discriminatory road to the top."
CarlZim8: Can you read this?
Einai2000: frogmobile:  I had to fight against the "lies that my teachers taught me" like any other "third world" student studying in a developed country
panta98: Yes, Proceed .... Khalid.
CarlZim8: Franz, do you read me now?
Einai2000: Did you get the messages, Franz? I can read you, Carl, Khalid and Franz

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Einai2000: Please proceed, Khalid - I reinvited Franz.

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Einai2000: Franz.
CarlZim8: I invited Franz
panta98: OK!
Einai2000: Thank you, Carl.
panta98: Thanks!!! it's not my "lucky day" with AOL today!!
frogmobile: The problem with University education is the system does not provide the basis for
encourage critical thinking because the very teachers are all just mediocre.
Einai2000:Franz.
CarlZim8:I invited Franz
panta98:OK!
Einai2000:Thank you, Carl.
panta98:Thanks!!!
frogmobile:The problem with University education is, that the system does not provide the basis for  to encourage critical thinking, because the very teachers are all just medicore.
CarlZim8:Proceed, Khalid
panta98:Why, Khalid?
naranjahit: medicore?
frogmobile:So any opinion to the contrary is view as radical and out of place
Einai2000: mediocre, Stella
naranjahit: ok.
frogmobile:So any opinion to the contrary is viewed as radical and out of place.
CarlZim8: Are they mediocre because salaries are low?
panta98:In such a sophisticated world system, in geneticism, clonism, you find "mediocre" teachers??? I don't dig this!!!
panta98:I thought that the teachers are more "brilliant" than ever before.
frogmobile: because they do not have the critical thinking skills, because of how they were 'educated'
panta98: They know more.
CarlZim8:They know more, understand less!
panta98:Well, then the fundamental question: What is education? Brainwashing, Brain-laundering?
Einai2000:What else should it be, Franz?
panta98:Do you all still want "education", want to be educated, want to educate anyone?
Einai2000:Oh no, thanks, none of this sort at least...
CarlZim8:Agreed, Iris
panta98:You want a Ph.D? Want to read educational books?
Einai2000:Franz....
panta98:Want to teach? At the university? On the Internet? Educate anybody on the Internet?
panta98: Sorry, for being the devil's advocate now!
Einai2000: You're sweet, Franz, go ahead...
panta98:So, what do we want?
panta98:Carl, any suggestions?
panta98:Khalid, any proposals?
CarlZim8: We want to help others think for themselves.
panta98:Iris, any sweet ideas?
frogmobile: None, man.
panta98: Stella, anything else?
Einai2000: I"m having my fun here, great chat!
panta98: Me too.
Einai2000: I know, my dear!
panta98: Carl, an interesting suggestion. Any questions, guys?
naranjahit: Erasing all the time here, I am too slow - sorry!
Einai2000:Don"t worry, Stella!
panta98:Never mind, Stella. Practice makes perfect. We'll edu ... you to be faster soon. Just a few chats more!!
naranjahit: Thank you, Profe!
frogmobile:Stella! Stella! what's up there? Are the eyes 'open'?
Einai2000: Stella, du hirsch!
naranjahit: ;-)
panta98:Help others to think for themselves. .... mmm ....
panta98: In which way, Carl?
Einai2000:Which "others", Carl?
panta98: Others think for them -- they just repeat, masticate.
panta98: Why should we help them to think, Carl?
panta98: Did they never ever get to the idea to think, to think for themselves?
panta98: How are we going to perform this miracle, to activate them, to stimulate them??
Einai2000:And from were do we get the "right" for educating them? If this would be possible in the first place?
panta98:Khalid, any "bad" ideas?
frogmobile: I just saw on TV, Isreali soldiers opening up fire on "school boys" throwing stones.
panta98:Is that not typical "education", Khalid?
panta98:In my primary school days, the teacher whipped us properly with a stick.
panta98:They educated us -- it was for our own good.
Einai2000: ooooff... indeed. And not only during primary school...
panta98:So why was "education" beaten into us -- was it perhaps because we in our youth were still thinking?
CarlZim8:In previous wars in the Middle East, Arab and Israeli soldiers were shooting at each other.
panta98Chaka Zulu said where this "shooting at each other" would end. Now, how are we going to "beat out" this strychnine from the heads of our Internet friends?
CarlZim8: What did that solve?
frogmobile: Nothing to help the oppressed.
panta98:What would happen, if they really "think", and that they think that we are "crazy"? Perhaps, we're really crazy, because we think. Only "locos' think!
frogmobile: Religion and Politics at its best.
panta98:Yes, Khalid.
CarlZim8:Yep, Khalid
frogmobile: thanks to the education system.
panta98:Now, is this not shocking to know what education is, what it is all about?
CarlZim8: Franz, actually, education needs shock treatment.
panta98: In South Africa, in the Apartheid system, Bantu education was in reality Education For Barbarism.
frogmobile: It would never happen, Carl.  because it is not in the best interest of those who control education.
CarlZim8:We need to submit our material for publication on other sites.
panta98: Probably, we'll just be looking for trouble, and create nuisances. Now what about education at Yale, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, London School of Economics, Freiburg, Mainz and Toronto?
CarlZim8: Mind control, Franz
CarlZim8:I want a system where there are no victims and oppressors.
CarlZim8: No solders shooting guns, no kids throwing stones.
panta98: Martin Luther King, Bill Clinton, Nelson Mandela, all wanted and still wish for similar things. Nevertheless, we don't need to study electronic mind control or other sophisticated scientific projects; the biggest newspeak is our global educational system.
CarlZim8:Yep, Franz
frogmobile:About a year ago I presented a paper on Intellectual labor and Education Today at a conference where I demonstrated how the system is gradually changing the focus on the social sciences in preference for "skilled" technology training.
panta98:It has to do with our "classics", our "drama", "plays", "films", "newspapers", etc.
Einai2000:We can afford to go throught this university farce, because we know what it is all about....at least I subscribed after having a slight notion at least, that within this institution I won't "find" what I was looking for...
panta98: ... All are based in education and culture; they are expressions of education, were written by educated people, who wanted to educate others.
CarlZim8:Author Arthur Miller says that in his latest book "Echoes Down the Corrridor."
panta98:The conclusion to be drawn from this chat on "Bantu education" is horrible, horrendous, far-reaching.
Einai2000:Khalid, where did you publish this paper? Listbot...?
panta98:That's why I prepared it very carefully for all of us -- as an emancipatory lesson.
frogmobile:No longer emphasis is placed on the study of history, politics, or on the arts students are told that the purpose of "education" in University is to get a skill and not to "waste time" studying liberal arts.
CarlZim8:Khalid, please e-mail the article to us
panta98:Now, what's the relation of education to emancipation?
frogmobile: It was not published but I have an incomplete copy here with me
panta98:You see, Khalid, there we go ....
Einai2000:The relation of education and emancipation - what you demonstrated once more here, Franz...
frogmobile:As a matter of fact there is no funding for the liberal arts anymore.
CarlZim8:Please e-mail it to us.
panta98:Excellent idea, Khalid. We need such materials.
Einai2000:Einai2000 To put it clear: educating is "done" for you; to emancipate, this is your very own, unique "job", can"t be done by others, you have to accomplish this "here and now". ,
panta98:OK! Thanks, Stella.
CarlZim8: Franz Fanon advocated self-education.
CarlZim8:You need to change yourself from within to influence change outside.
panta98: Since millennia, Education has a definite epistemology, certain methods, rules -- all launched by Plato, and also explained in the first pages of his Republic.
frogmobile:Iris what time is your buseta leaving?
panta98:Not to repeat this mental crime of crimes, we have to be careful not to fall in the educational traps.
Einai2000:The buseta left already, Khalid, I'll stay at Simons place overnight in Merida...
panta98:We need our own Science & Philosophy, our own Acting and Thinking.
CarlZim8:Traps such as?
frogmobile: okay
Einai2000:"no quiero perderme ni un minuto de esta alta peligrosidad", in CAP"s words :-)
panta98: Carl: such as the glorious "human being", "human rights", "education", etc. That's what is demonstrated on all our Home Pages and Forums.
Einai2000:Agreed, Franz!
frogmobile: alright
CarlZim8: and in these chats
panta98: Yes, Carl. And, lo and behold, how many are interested in emancipation? And how many in education?
panta98:Sometimes, I really wonder how we got a dozen crew members together at all.
CarlZim8:Just before this chat, a young Egyptian woman who read my profile, ...
panta98:And I'm wondering whether another dozen still exists at all.
CarlZim8: ... chatted briefly with me.
panta98:Carl, console me there!
Einai2000:Please comment, Carl...
Einai2000:But Franz: since when this is a question uf quantity?
frogmobile: continue, Carl
CarlZim8:She shared common interests - philosophy, arts, humanities.
CarlZim8: A hornet.
frogmobile:Was she interested in Tesla energy?
Einai2000: oh
panta98: And, why is she not here?
panta98: What is she waiting for? Do hornets "invite" each other?
panta98: Carl, you're always there. The very first. A masterpiece of a hornet.
panta98:In fact, you are the only excellent hornet whom I know on the Internet.
frogmobile: Stella are you there?
Einai2000: Yes, e.g. when they get signed off by AOL, Franz....!
naranjahit: Yes.
CarlZim8:We need to know the people before we invite them based on our past experience
frogmobile:true Carl, I agree
panta98: A few more Carl's, more quality,  and this world won't revolve anymore; it will make sommersaults.
CarlZim8:Thanks, folks
frogmobile:Carl is a good guy.
CarlZim8:I appreciate you guys - You are the very best.
frogmobile:Thanks, Carl.
Einai2000:I totally agree with you, Franz and Khalid!
panta98:Yes, Carl. I agree. But, a real hornet, you just sense, you recognize it, it recognizes you. It's Love At Every Sight!
CarlZim8:Thanks, Franz.
panta98:Khalid I met as a young hornet, 23 years ago, he is still just as stingy as ever, he never left my side, in spite of horrible adverse circumstances.
frogmobile:Yea! I remember those good old days, man.
panta98:Iris met me, and she doesn't want to meet anybody else anymore.
CarlZim8:That's excellent, Franz
panta98:Stella knew from the start, that everything was "anders", different.
frogmobile: Iris like her sister are really very wonderful human beings.
Einai2000: And I was going on a nice "send to hell" trip...
CarlZim8:Agreed, Khalid
Einai2000:...to put it somehow...
frogmobile: I admire their interests and attitude to critical thinking.
panta98:And you, Carl. With all your suggestions, observations, proposals, you did not allow me to sleep anymore; I dream in TV squares.
CarlZim8:And you, Franz, the most mentally stimulating person I ever met.
panta98:Now, this is what I understand by emancipation --- hundreds of students whom I have "educated" are as lost as they ever had been before.
frogmobile: Thanks to Franz, I am what I am too in life -  an emancipatory 'being'.

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CarlZim8:I will reinvite Stella
Einai2000:I tried to...
panta98:Thanks, Carl. It's somtimes refreshing, soothing to hear such emancipatory kind words. Especially when they are sincere, beautiful and true.
CarlZim8:I reinvited Stella
Einai2000:Thank you, Carl.
panta98:I invited Stella. she is queued.
Einai2000:Franz, you were trying to make a valid point during the last minutes - and not for the first time of course...
CarlZim8:Queued?
panta98:On the right, she appears as "Invited", Iris.
panta98:To queue is "Schlangenstehen".
Einai2000:...that first, if someone isn"t on his/her way anyhow, we could talk and try to explain etc until the next millenium..
Einai2000:...be it a single person, be it "the masses"...
Einai2000:I don"t see Stella?
panta98:That's a central cognitive principle, who is not already on our orbit, will never get there.
CarlZim8:I don't see Stella on-line
panta98:No matter how much patience, encouragement, nice words, loving acts, ....
Einai2000:she is on AOL, at least appears listed here
Einai2000:yes, definitely, truly so, Franz.
panta98:You all try to invite Stella back, as naranjahit, please.

THE AFTERMATH

naranjahit has entered the room.

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panta98:Hi! Naranja! What happened?
CarlZim8:Hi, Stella
naranjahit: midnight online then they kick you off
Einai2000:just give me a moment, will try once more.
Einai2000:Steeellla!!!
panta98:Now, the frog jumped out!
Einai2000:Thanks for joining once more in spite of the late night hours!
panta98:Invite Khalid back, please.
Einai2000:invited Khalid
panta98:As I said, now AOL plays monkey tricks with you again.
panta98:Anyhow, AOL is allergic to emancipatory compliments.
CarlZim8:Stella, you are listed off-line on my AOL
CarlZim8:Ok
naranjahit: Friends it is 2.45am here. I have to sleep a little bit, please send me the Rest of the chat.
CarlZim8:Stella, OK, now you're listed on-line
Einai2000:Stella, alright, it was nice to have you with us! Take care and sleep tight!
CarlZim8:Stella, schlafen sie wohl. Gute Nacht.
naranjahit: Take care all! Good night! - Gute Nacht!

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CarlZim8:I enjoyed your participation
panta98:Bye! Stella. It was a great pleasure!!!
Einai2000:Buenas Noches, Stella!
CarlZim8:Hope you'll join next Tuesday's chat, Stella
panta98:Iris, you never were thrown offline. I think you have the whole chat. Please send it to me.
Einai2000:I"ll do so, Franz. Please try to invite Khalid, it doesn"t work here.
panta98:Well, perhaps, we should also conclude for today.
panta98:I'm also a bit exhausted, and what we wanted to say, we said extensively.
Einai2000:Ok, Franz.
panta98:I just "hope" that you enjoyed my humble emancipatory contribution with regard to "education".
CarlZim8:OK, I'll also save the chat, as insurance
CarlZim8:Excellent chat
panta98:Next week, I'll continue.
Einai2000:I loved your introduction and comments, Franz.
CarlZim8:Labinachti, guten nacht, buona sera
panta98:I also enjoyed the chat, Carl.
panta98:Iris, thanks for tolerating the coldness in my office.
panta98:Gute Nacht, Carl.
Einai2000:Don"t worry, Franz!
Einai2000:Good Night, Carl, it was a great pleasure!
panta98:OK! Iris.
CarlZim8:La lucha continua...till next time. Un grande plaisar.
panta98:Iris, send me the chat through Yahoo, I'll wait for it.

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