p a n d e m o n i u m
   Tuesday Evening International AOL Chat
                      Carl (Teaneck, USA),

                   Iris (Freiburg),

                 Stella (Mainz)

              Khalid (Toronto),

             Franz (Merida, Venezuela).

     Orwell Today: Personal Life Experiences -
                            Franz - Part V: 1979-Today (Finale)
                    (This Chat I dedicate to my son, Franz Lee, Jr.)

31st October, 2000                          (Slightly Corrected Version)



 (N.B. PART OF THIS INTRODUCTION WE'LL PUBLISH ELSEWHERE
AS OUR MESSAGE TO FUTURE GENERATIONS.)

                                       SECOND   PART

panta98:Proceeding. ....
panta98:Furthermore, we discovered that we ourselves are creators and created, natura naturans and natura naturata; we are part and parcel of myriad of productions and reproductions.
panta98:Proceeding. ... Our miserable education, our formal-logical paradigms and parameters, our ideologically infested thoughts, our controlled, indoctrinated and manipulated mindsof course, were of no use to introduce us into new, original spheres.
Einai2000: Ok...
panta98:As Carl, used to say: "We have to build our own worlds from scratch", with our own postulates, axioms, methods, logic, epistemology, etc.
panta98:Nevertheless, we are still busy wrenching the labour chains from our tortured bodies, the slave mentality from our perverted minds, and the religious, theological scales and cobwebs from our eyes, from our obscurantist tracks and trails, from our obstreperous dolce vita ways and haute monde means of life, ...
Einai2000: Truly so, Franz.
naranjahit: "emancipation is not easy..."
panta98:... all these, in order to enable us, to open up new emancipatory vistas, hence, paving the road towards our real, true transgalactic trajectories and orbits.
panta98:yes, Stella. No Easy Road to Emancipation!!! No Short-Cut!!!
panta98:Proceeding. ....
panta98:However, as a consolation prize: We are becoming excellent, transcendental, invisible, invulnerable, invincible.
CarlzimC: Franz, you need to communicate this in our forums.
panta98:Yes, I will, Carl.
panta98:A new galactic species begins to see the light, far yonder, at the back of the death tunnel; driven on by "new life energy" (Tesla & Reich), it acts, thinks, excels all spatial barriers, all temporal velocities of light, of light years.
CarlzimC: Some hornets visited our sites and said it's too negative.
CarlzimC: We can express the same concepts in a positive manner.
panta98:Well, what they don't know: Negativity paves the road, like good intentions, to Emancipation.
naranjahit: It IS negative, but that is not all.
CarlzimC: They don't know.
panta98:Yes, Stella, affirmative, negative, affirmative and negative, neither affirmative nor negative: this the hornets must first learn, learn to see, to comprehend!
naranjahit:  I did not learn it yet....
panta98: Stella, Rome was not built in one day, but all roads lead  to Rome!  Proceeding. .... Life is not mother's bossom. It is, in a normative sense, negative; it is Hell -- hence our portrayal is precise, is to the point!
panta98: I continue ... But, Labour itself is affected, is being transformed, catapulted out of its grave, is wielded into spacetime, into chaotic mensions, into other trimensional spheres.
CarlzimC: Agreed, Franz. However, in order to convince the hornets to accept emancipatory concepts, let's present them in a positive manner.
panta98: Later we'll discuss this serious issue, Carl. Proceeding ... Yeah, yes. Emancipation has just, just "begun"!
panta98:This is what we have seen, have learnt, have understood over and across the last decade, in the previous millennium.
panta98:However, this is just NEITHER the beginning of the beginning NOR the end of the end:
panta98:So much MORE is still to be done: so much MORE to think, so much MORE to excel, so LITTLE done, so LITTLE thought, so LITTLE excelled!
Einai2000:The problem is, that not only CONCEPTS will have to be "adapted", Carl.
CarlzimC has left the room.
panta98:Gentle(wo)men, now, we could enter the debate! Carl, I'll reply to your remark above now!
CarlzimC has entered the room.
panta98:Gentle(wo)men, now, we could enter the debate! Carl, I'll reply to your remark above now!
Einai2000:Welcome back again, Carl.
CarlzimC:Thanks. Iris, please continue.

THE HEAT IS ON  -- "convincing the 'hornets' "

panta98:Carl, this I did for six decades: "in order to convince the hornets to accept emancipatory concepts, let's present them in a positive manner." I could not even "convince" my own mother! Firstly, "positive" and "negative" are intrinsically normative, ethical categories, they correspond to the formal-logical "good" and "bad".
CarlzimC:We may be able to do this today.
panta98: Secondly, our identifications, definitions, what we express as appearances, that the "hornets" read, are philosophical concepts, they pertain to "Affimation" and "Negation", they are methodological instruments. Hence, here is already a problem when you have "to convince" anybody!!
naranjahit:Why now, Carl?
CarlzimC:Because Capitalism in its present form is ending.
CarlzimC:They want to be convinced.
panta98:I never convinced Jutta, Stella, Iris and Khalid of anything in my life. In fact, they would never have allowed me to do so. It would have been a case of personal mental violation or bankruptcy to accept such a position, presupposition.
Einai2000:I agree with you, Franz - at least this is part of my life-experiences, at least this is valid for me....
CarlzimC: Convincing = help them understand.
panta98:Then, they'll never ever think that what we are saying, in a normative way, is negative!
CarlzimC: Semantics, my definition of convincing is not the conventional definition.
panta98: Yes, it is a semantic problem! What we portray. erroneously is being understood by the "hornets" as being "negative". What about our poems? Our love declarations? Our Beauty? Our beautiful, natural photo album? All elements of negativity?
naranjahit: O.k. What is your definition? - Franz, this is exactly what I am thinking about!
panta98: If these things don't convince anybody, well, then I am called "Vitzliputzli"!
CarlzimC: Agreed, I'm referring to hornets' perceptions. Unless we address them, we get nowhere.
panta98: What do you think, Stella & Iris?
CarlzimC:We need to ask the hornets for their definitions and what they think.
panta98:But you know their definitions already, Carl. Do we really need a "virus definition update"?
For sure, eagerly, we welcome any "hornet" to join us, that's why we're on the net, but, to have a "negative" attitude towards our complex ideas, definitely, that's not quite a friendly, a 'gentle(wo)men"
"beginning".
naranjahit:I only can speak about me: the only thing I need is "time" to think about these things, no convincing. Then it would not be part of me.
panta98: Do you think, with some definite exceptions,  that we all don't know their definitions, their ways of thought? They, nearly all, were all also ours, not so very long ago.
CarlzimC:The hornets I conversed with have different definitions. I don't think we know them all.
Einai2000:Truly so, Stella!
panta98:Carl, convincing reminds me of priests, of teachers, of Christians, of Marxists. That's their profession.
CarlzimC: I don't define convincing that way.
naranjahit: We don't know all the appearence forms, but essentially we have some excellent ideas about these definitions.
Einai2000: From where did we get the historic right to "convince" anybody, Carl?
Einai2000: Correctly so, Stella!
naranjahit:Please, Carl, give us a definition.
CarlzimC:We have the right to provide information for understanding. They make their own decisions.
panta98:Well, Carl, I admit that we don't know everything, especially not what precisely is going on within the cranium of people. But what counts, is what happens. A hornet stings. And it hurts, it hurts the system. Where and how do these hornets with the different definitions sting?
naranjahit: That is what we are doing; and what they are doing: they decide it is negative. And can not see anything else.
naranjahit: The same thing is going on with us sometimes!
panta98: And, furthermore, Stella. Any problem with the "negative"?
CarlzimC: They sting, for example, by stating that all humanity owns the world's energy resources, not those who sit on it or drill it.
panta98: "Ownership" is a definite "definition", Marx used it with great fondness. However, should everything necessarily be "positive"? Why?
naranjahit: No, I did not mean this!
panta98:What would happen in a positive world?
CarlzimC:No, not everything should be positive.
naranjahit: Rest.
naranjahitAt peace....
panta98:Well, then the hornets should be happy that someone tells them the truth about the "negativity" of this world.
panta98:This would enrich their ideas.
panta98:Will make their attitudes to life even more "positive".
panta98:The press, the news, the educational system, for sure, do not give them the real, true gist of this negative world. For example, a typical case, Bin Laden is a "negative" terrorist! De facto, he is the most "positive" person that exists nowadays, he fills the role of the "enemy", of the "scapegoat", which died after the "Cold War" ideology; as portrayed by the mass media, the truth is that he is the personification of a positive member of a capitalist "reign of terror".
CarlzimC: We need to balance the positive, negative, etc. We don't want to appear like Nostradamus - an Illuminatus.
Einai2000:Yes, I agree, Carl. And this is what we are doing - in our language, our terms, precepts, concepts, transcepts which in the meanwhile are "filled" with different meanings, relations, they do have FOR US a meaning, we know what we are talking about, we are developing them...
CarlzimC:Bin Ladin is a media creation.
panta98: Balance is harmony, is peace, is death! It negates contradiction, motion, fire,  it is "negative", not exactly a favourite of 'hornets'. Scientifically, it would be impossible to identify us with an Illuminati. Nonetheless, this is not a positive world, it is an affirmative world. It produces its own negativity.
panta98: What we do, say and think has nothing to do with this kind of Bin Laden negativity; well, the "hornets" must begin to learn to identify, to identify precisely what our "negativity" is all about. It concerns true, real emancipation.
CarlzimC:Agreed, Iris, but we gotta communicate these transcepts, etc. to others so that they could understand them.
CarlzimC:Yep, Franz.
panta98:Carl, before giving "negative" judgements, the''hornets" patiently should visit our homepages, look at our album, with an open critical mind they should carefully read the emancipatory contents. Here is where they should go:
http://www.franzjutta.com
http://www.oocities.org/juttafranz/load.html
http://www.homestead.com/pandemonium2/jutfranz_001.html
http://www.oocities.org/carlzim/index.html
http://www.geoccities.com/plasticsmith/index1.html
http://www.homestead.com/pandemonium2/faq.html

They'll be surprized, if they do. To convince them, would be that what has been done to them all along their lives: would be to indoctrinate, manipulate and pervert them. We have no interest whatsoever in such "negative" activities.
CarlzimC:I think they need to know that negative and positive are bull-scheisse terms.
Einai2000:Yes, Carl, I think we are illustrating the meaning, contents and relations in our chats, forums, discussions and home pages.
panta98: Yes, Carl, terms which affirm the b.s.-sysytem! We present the emancipatory "bait", the provisions to understand, the master-key; they are at liberty to follow the trail themselves.
Einai2000:Agreed, Franz. And they are free to develop their own trail...
CarlzimC:Agreed, Iris and Franz. The messages in this chat are the key, and should be strongly communicated.
panta98:If somebody reads our chats, and is not fascinated by this novelty, then all conviction in Heaven and on Earth could never ever convince any person.
panta98: Of this, for a change, I am convinced, have convinced myself!
CarlzimC: Not necessarily, Franz. It's different today. Capitalism is ending. Rephrasing emancipatory messages will help.
panta98:What more facts of life, "negative" experiences do one still need, what conviction, after reading Franz' life story from 1938 till here.
Einai2000:What more "negative" life experiences as one's own???
panta98: Ours have nothing to do with phraseology, sophistry, hair-splitting, in short, with what generally is known pejoratively, as "semantics". Trying to murder me was surely not a positive experience, and how should I feel "positive" about that?
CarlzimC: We need to ask the Hornets for their life experiences.
panta98:Yes, that's it! And I urgently ask that they should voice their critical opinions on our forums, and in messages on our Home pages, or simply drop us a line:  franzjutta@cantv.net  czfz@earthlink.net
Einai2000:And why not just take one's own thoughts and experiences seriously?
Einai2000:Agreed, Carl and Franz.
panta98:Something in death agony, a beast, a wolf, a Dracula, does not just lie down and die peacefully. It is most ferocious when it is in death agony. Just look around!!!
CarlzimC:Agreed, Franz
naranjahit:Carl, Franz, Iris I have to sign off, it is late, I will have a hard day tomorrow.
CarlzimC:They'll do through the image of Bin Laden. I don't think he really exists.
panta98:Half of the things portrayed by CNN, by Big Brother, in any case, don't exist. Capitalism will take as many as it could, billions, to its huge cemetery; in crisis, between 1914 and 1945, it took hundreds of millions.
Einai2000:The problem is, that one has to face reality, the reality of the system. This has multidirectional implications and repercussions...
naranjahit:Please send me the last part of the chat. Good night!
panta98:OK! Stella, Good night!!
Einai2000:Okay, Stella. Take care, sleep tight and please send me the first part.
naranjahit:Ok. I will do so!
CarlzimC:Gute Nacht, Stella!
naranjahit:Gute Nacht, Carl!

PART THREE WILL FOLLOW!!!



 

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