Iris (Freiburg),
Stella (Mainz)
Khalid (Toronto),
Franz (Merida, Venezuela).
Orwell
Today: Personal Life Experiences -
Franz - Part V: 1979-Today (Finale)
(This Chat I dedicate
to my son, Franz Lee, Jr.)
31st October, 2000 (Slightly Corrected Version)
SECOND PART
panta98:Proceeding. ....
panta98:Furthermore,
we discovered that we ourselves are creators and created, natura naturans
and natura naturata; we are part and parcel of myriad of productions and
reproductions.
panta98:Proceeding. ...
Our miserable education, our formal-logical paradigms and parameters, our
ideologically infested thoughts, our controlled, indoctrinated and manipulated
mindsof course, were of no use to introduce us into new, original spheres.
Einai2000: Ok...
panta98:As Carl, used to
say: "We have to build our own worlds from scratch", with our own postulates,
axioms, methods, logic, epistemology, etc.
panta98:Nevertheless, we
are still busy wrenching the labour chains from our tortured bodies, the
slave mentality from our perverted minds, and the religious, theological
scales and cobwebs from our eyes, from our obscurantist tracks and trails,
from our obstreperous dolce vita ways and haute monde means of life, ...
Einai2000: Truly
so, Franz.
naranjahit:
"emancipation is not easy..."
panta98:... all these,
in order to enable us, to open up new emancipatory vistas, hence, paving
the road towards our real, true transgalactic trajectories and orbits.
panta98:yes, Stella. No
Easy Road to Emancipation!!! No Short-Cut!!!
panta98:Proceeding. ....
panta98:However, as a consolation
prize: We are becoming excellent, transcendental, invisible, invulnerable,
invincible.
CarlzimC: Franz, you need to
communicate this in our forums.
panta98:Yes, I will, Carl.
panta98:A new galactic species
begins to see the light, far yonder, at the back of the death tunnel; driven
on by "new life energy" (Tesla & Reich), it acts, thinks, excels all
spatial barriers, all temporal velocities of light, of light years.
CarlzimC: Some hornets visited
our sites and said it's too negative.
CarlzimC:
We can express the same concepts in a positive manner.
panta98:Well, what they
don't know: Negativity paves the road, like good intentions, to Emancipation.
naranjahit:
It IS negative, but that is not all.
CarlzimC: They don't
know.
panta98:Yes, Stella, affirmative,
negative, affirmative and negative, neither affirmative nor negative: this
the hornets must first learn, learn to see, to comprehend!
naranjahit:
I did not learn it yet....
panta98: Stella,
Rome was not built in one day, but all roads lead to Rome!
Proceeding. .... Life is not mother's bossom. It is, in a normative sense,
negative; it is Hell -- hence our portrayal is precise, is to the point!
panta98: I continue ...
But, Labour itself is affected, is being transformed, catapulted out of
its grave, is wielded into spacetime, into chaotic mensions, into other
trimensional spheres.
CarlzimC: Agreed, Franz. However,
in order to convince the hornets to accept emancipatory concepts, let's
present them in a positive manner.
panta98: Later we'll discuss
this serious issue, Carl. Proceeding ... Yeah, yes. Emancipation
has just, just "begun"!
panta98:This is what we
have seen, have learnt, have understood over and across the last decade,
in the previous millennium.
panta98:However, this is
just NEITHER the beginning of the beginning NOR the end of the end:
panta98:So much MORE is
still to be done: so much MORE to think, so much MORE to excel, so LITTLE
done, so LITTLE thought, so LITTLE excelled!
Einai2000:The
problem is, that not only CONCEPTS will have to be "adapted", Carl.
CarlzimC has left the
room.
panta98:Gentle(wo)men,
now, we could enter the debate! Carl, I'll reply to your remark above now!
CarlzimC has entered
the room.
panta98:Gentle(wo)men,
now, we could enter the debate! Carl, I'll reply to your remark above now!
Einai2000:Welcome
back again, Carl.
CarlzimC:Thanks. Iris, please
continue.
THE HEAT IS ON -- "convincing the 'hornets' "
panta98:Carl, this
I did for six decades: "in order to convince
the hornets to accept emancipatory concepts, let's present them in a positive
manner." I could not even "convince" my own
mother! Firstly, "positive" and "negative" are intrinsically normative,
ethical categories, they correspond to the formal-logical "good" and "bad".
CarlzimC:We may be able to
do this today.
panta98: Secondly, our identifications,
definitions, what we express as appearances, that the "hornets" read, are
philosophical concepts, they pertain to "Affimation" and "Negation", they
are methodological instruments. Hence, here is already a problem when you
have "to convince" anybody!!
naranjahit:Why
now, Carl?
CarlzimC:Because Capitalism
in its present form is ending.
CarlzimC:They
want to be convinced.
panta98:I never convinced Jutta,
Stella, Iris and Khalid of anything in my life. In fact, they would never
have allowed me to do so. It would have been a case of personal mental
violation or bankruptcy to accept such a position, presupposition.
Einai2000:I
agree with you, Franz - at least this is part of my life-experiences, at
least this is valid for me....
CarlzimC: Convincing = help
them understand.
panta98:Then, they'll never
ever think that what we are saying, in a normative way, is negative!
CarlzimC: Semantics, my definition
of convincing is not the conventional definition.
panta98: Yes, it is a semantic
problem! What we portray. erroneously is being understood by the "hornets"
as being "negative". What about our poems? Our love declarations? Our Beauty?
Our beautiful, natural photo album? All elements of negativity?
naranjahit: O.k.
What is your definition? - Franz, this is exactly what I am thinking about!
panta98: If these things don't
convince anybody, well, then I am called "Vitzliputzli"!
CarlzimC: Agreed, I'm referring
to hornets' perceptions. Unless we address them, we get nowhere.
panta98: What do you think,
Stella & Iris?
CarlzimC:We need to ask the
hornets for their definitions and what they think.
panta98:But you know their
definitions already, Carl. Do we really need a "virus definition update"?
For sure, eagerly, we welcome any "hornet" to
join us, that's why we're on the net, but, to have a "negative" attitude
towards our complex ideas, definitely, that's not quite a friendly, a 'gentle(wo)men"
"beginning".
naranjahit:I
only can speak about me: the only thing I need is "time" to think about
these things, no convincing. Then it would not be part of me.
panta98: Do you think, with
some definite exceptions, that we all don't know their definitions,
their ways of thought? They, nearly all, were all also ours, not so very
long ago.
CarlzimC:The hornets I conversed
with have different definitions. I don't think we know them all.
Einai2000:Truly
so, Stella!
panta98:Carl, convincing reminds
me of priests, of teachers, of Christians, of Marxists. That's their profession.
CarlzimC: I don't define convincing
that way.
naranjahit:
We
don't know all the appearence forms, but essentially we have some excellent
ideas about these definitions.
Einai2000: From
where did we get the historic right to "convince" anybody, Carl?
Einai2000: Correctly
so, Stella!
naranjahit:Please,
Carl, give us a definition.
CarlzimC:We have the right
to provide information for understanding. They make their own decisions.
panta98:Well, Carl, I admit
that we don't know everything, especially not what precisely is going on
within the cranium of people. But what counts, is what happens. A hornet
stings. And it hurts, it hurts the system. Where and how do these hornets
with the different definitions sting?
naranjahit:
That
is what we are doing; and what they are doing: they decide it is negative.
And can not see anything else.
naranjahit: The
same thing is going on with us sometimes!
panta98: And, furthermore,
Stella. Any problem with the "negative"?
CarlzimC: They sting, for example,
by stating that all humanity owns the world's energy resources, not those
who sit on it or drill it.
panta98: "Ownership" is a definite
"definition", Marx used it with great fondness. However, should everything
necessarily be "positive"? Why?
naranjahit: No,
I did not mean this!
panta98:What would happen in
a positive world?
CarlzimC:No, not everything
should be positive.
naranjahit:
Rest.
naranjahit: At
peace....
panta98:Well, then the hornets
should be happy that someone tells them the truth about the "negativity"
of this world.
panta98:This
would enrich their ideas.
panta98:Will
make their attitudes to life even more "positive".
panta98:The
press, the news, the educational system, for sure, do not give them the
real, true gist of this negative world. For example, a typical case, Bin
Laden is a "negative" terrorist! De facto, he is the most "positive" person
that exists nowadays, he fills the role of the "enemy", of the "scapegoat",
which died after the "Cold War" ideology; as portrayed by the mass media,
the truth is that he is the personification of a positive member of a capitalist
"reign of terror".
CarlzimC: We need to balance
the positive, negative, etc. We don't want to appear like Nostradamus -
an Illuminatus.
Einai2000:Yes,
I agree, Carl. And this is what we are doing - in our language, our terms,
precepts, concepts, transcepts which in the meanwhile are "filled" with
different meanings, relations, they do have FOR US a meaning, we know what
we are talking about, we are developing them...
CarlzimC:Bin Ladin is a media
creation.
panta98: Balance is harmony,
is peace, is death! It negates contradiction, motion, fire, it is
"negative", not exactly a favourite of 'hornets'. Scientifically, it would
be impossible to identify us with an Illuminati. Nonetheless, this is not
a positive world, it is an affirmative world. It produces its own negativity.
panta98: What we do, say and
think has nothing to do with this kind of Bin Laden negativity; well, the
"hornets" must begin to learn to identify, to identify precisely what our
"negativity" is all about. It concerns true, real emancipation.
CarlzimC:Agreed, Iris, but
we gotta communicate these transcepts, etc. to others so that they could
understand them.
CarlzimC:Yep,
Franz.
panta98:Carl, before giving
"negative" judgements, the''hornets" patiently should visit our homepages,
look at our album, with an open critical mind they should carefully read
the emancipatory contents. Here is where they should go:
http://www.franzjutta.com
http://www.oocities.org/juttafranz/load.html
http://www.homestead.com/pandemonium2/jutfranz_001.html
http://www.oocities.org/carlzim/index.html
http://www.geoccities.com/plasticsmith/index1.html
http://www.homestead.com/pandemonium2/faq.html
They'll be surprized, if they do. To convince
them, would be that what has been done to them all along their lives: would
be to indoctrinate, manipulate and pervert them. We have no interest whatsoever
in such "negative" activities.
CarlzimC:I think they need
to know that negative and positive are bull-scheisse terms.
Einai2000:Yes,
Carl, I think we are illustrating the meaning, contents and relations in
our chats, forums, discussions and home pages.
panta98: Yes, Carl, terms which
affirm the b.s.-sysytem! We present the emancipatory "bait", the provisions
to understand, the master-key; they are at liberty to follow the trail
themselves.
Einai2000:Agreed,
Franz. And they are free to develop their own trail...
CarlzimC:Agreed, Iris and Franz.
The messages in this chat are the key, and should be strongly communicated.
panta98:If somebody reads our
chats, and is not fascinated by this novelty, then all conviction in Heaven
and on Earth could never ever convince any person.
panta98:
Of this, for a change, I am convinced, have convinced myself!
CarlzimC: Not necessarily,
Franz. It's different today. Capitalism is ending. Rephrasing emancipatory
messages will help.
panta98:What more facts of
life, "negative" experiences do one still need, what conviction, after
reading Franz' life story from 1938 till here.
Einai2000:What
more "negative" life experiences as one's own???
panta98: Ours have nothing
to do with phraseology, sophistry, hair-splitting, in short, with what
generally is known pejoratively, as "semantics". Trying to murder me was
surely not a positive experience, and how should I feel "positive" about
that?
CarlzimC: We need to ask the
Hornets for their life experiences.
panta98:Yes, that's it! And
I urgently ask that they should voice their critical opinions on our forums,
and in messages on our Home pages, or simply drop us a line: franzjutta@cantv.net
czfz@earthlink.net
Einai2000:And
why not just take one's own thoughts and experiences seriously?
Einai2000:Agreed,
Carl and Franz.
panta98:Something in death
agony, a beast, a wolf, a Dracula, does not just lie down and die peacefully.
It is most ferocious when it is in death agony. Just look around!!!
CarlzimC:Agreed, Franz
naranjahit:Carl,
Franz, Iris I have to sign off, it is late, I will have a hard day tomorrow.
CarlzimC:They'll do through
the image of Bin Laden. I don't think he really exists.
panta98:Half of the things
portrayed by CNN, by Big Brother, in any case, don't exist. Capitalism
will take as many as it could, billions, to its huge cemetery; in crisis,
between 1914 and 1945, it took hundreds of millions.
Einai2000:The
problem is, that one has to face reality, the reality of the system. This
has multidirectional implications and repercussions...
naranjahit:Please
send me the last part of the chat. Good night!
panta98:OK! Stella, Good night!!
Einai2000:Okay,
Stella. Take care, sleep tight and please send me the first part.
naranjahit:Ok.
I will do so!
CarlzimC:Gute Nacht, Stella!
naranjahit:Gute
Nacht, Carl!
PART THREE WILL FOLLOW!!!