You have just entered room "panta98 Chat41."
CarlzimC has entered the room.
juttaschmi has entered the room.
CarlzimC: Hi, Franz & Jutta
juttaschmi:Good evening all!
panta98:Hi Carl & Jutta!
juttaschmi:Carl, it is a pleasure to have you with us!
juttaschmi:Hi Franz!
CarlzimC:It's a pleasure to join you.
CarlzimC:Where's Iris?
juttaschmi:Iris sends her warmest regards. Unfortunately, she cannot participate..
juttaschmi:... as there is no Internet access from the university computer today.
CarlzimC:Unfortunate indeed
juttaschmi:Also, they don't have AOL messenger installed in the internet cafe in town.
panta98:She was very angry and disappointed. She sent you a mail explaining everything.
juttaschmi:She is sorry to not be able to participate and sends her greetings. She is here with us "in spirit", she says.
CarlzimC:Yep
juttaschmi:So, let us start.
juttaschmi:Franz, pleas introduce the topic.
CarlzimC:What is her e-mnail address to use?
juttaschmi:please
panta98:As usual, I will give a very brief introduction. Please tell me when to commence.
juttaschmi:it is the usual address, Carl: iris@aktionspotenzial.de
CarlzimC:Thanks
juttaschmi:ok
CarlzimC:Proceed, Franz
juttaschmi:Franz, please proceed.

INTRODUCTORY LECTURE

panta98:Folks, my article on TIME VERSUS MOTION already contains the essence and existence of our chat tonight. Ad hoc I would just like to make some additional remarks .
juttaschmi:Please do so, Franz.
panta98:Obviously, the labour process, Man, -- the production process, "History", -- Alienation, although an illusion, a fake, a farce, nevertheless, it has its own non-level and non-degree of essence and existence. Hence, it is identifiable, can be differentiated.
juttaschmi:Agreed.
CarlzimC:Yep
panta98:And with that, also its space and time parameters. In fact, Labour and Capital, the Exploitation of Labour, the Accumulation of Capital, the Monopolization, Merging and Globalization of Capital, Man Himself, "History", produce, reproduce their own spatial-temporal irrealities, own non-relations.
juttaschmi:Exactly so, Franz.
panta98:These could be scrutinized, analysed, studied as such, as farce, as fake, as being irreal, irrelational. Also they can be identified, differentiated, superated, even annihilated.Who forbids us to study an irreality, an irrelationality? Didn't we study sufficient personalities, nationalities, anomalies, globalities and universalities already?
panta98:Now let us look at a "concrete" universality, at "universal time". Ever since 1972, in the Patria, the common folk is using the Co-ordinated Universal Time. Its "second" is based on a contradiction, on a combination of solar and atomic time.
juttaschmi:And the irreality has been pretty real, Franz, with well-functioning time and space parameters.
juttaschmi:Please explain further, Franz.
panta98:Yes, Jutta, our brains were washed par excellence. We are true irrealities.
CarlzimC:Considering that time=motion
juttaschmi:Real irrealities. - And if motion is a relation, it also must apply to time.
CarlzimC:Sanctioned education = irreality.
panta98:Agreed, Carl. Proceeding ... More absurd, its epoch is kept by periodic "adjustment" within "0.9 second" of "mean" solar time.
juttaschmi:Agreed, Carl.
panta98:Jutta will like the following. ...
panta98:In this case, what is "time" supposed to be? Generally, it is being understood simply as a measured or measurable period, a continuum that lacks spatial dimensions. In fact, Time is an attribute of Hegel's World Spirit, is Society, is Man, is A, and A does not accept Non-A, Space, Nature.
CarlzimC:Contrived time = labor motion.
juttaschmi:True, Franz. And the very same Einstein stated bluntly, that time is simply that, what is being measured by a clock.
CarlzimC:time = money
juttaschmi:Excellent, Carl.
juttaschmi:Time and motion also relate in Hegel's Philosophy.
juttaschmi:But Franz, continue.
panta98:Certainly, Carl. Yes, Jutta. Proceeding ... Talking about Hegel, about his Dialectics, about his dialectical "circle of circles", let's look at another natural anomaly, at rotational time.
panta98:Now, what's this?
juttaschmi:A shame that our friend Axel can't participate now.
juttaschmi:He would love to explain rotational time.
panta98:Yes, Jutta. It is his favourite topic!
panta98:Anyhow, .... Firstly, it has to do with the "belief" that the Sun rises and that it sets, which is a motif, an object of everyday jargon, poetry and literature. It is a matter of appearance, of irreality, of the illusion that the Sun rises each day in the East and sets in the West -- ex oriente lux!
juttaschmi:It has to do with the feudalist "production circle", if I remember correctly.
juttaschmi:With the agricultural, ever-returning production circles and the four seasons.
panta98:Yes, Jutta. We'll come to that just now.
CarlzimC:Related to Euclidian geometry.
juttaschmi:Which was the basis of the notion of the "time-circle".
juttaschmi:Exactly so, Carl.
panta98:Exactly, Carl. Proceeding ... When we say: "You make my day"! This is how this day is measured irreally, rotationally, irrationally. We even have a "sidereal" day - measured by the interval of time between two similar passages of a star.
CarlzimC:The spinning wheel.
juttaschmi:Excellent example, Carl.
panta98:And, even in this case, to be precise, there are anomalies, contradictions, inaccuracies. Because of nutation, of a small periodic oscillation, of a kind of wobble of the Earth's axis, there is a distinction between the true and mean equinoxes, varying from zero to about one second.
panta98:Hence, we have all sorts of "times", but not all sorts of "A's", "B's", "C's", etc., not more postulates than One, than the One!
juttaschmi:Most interesting, Franz. Please continue.
panta98:I will, Jutta. ... For example, we have "solar time" and "dynamical time". Apparent, irreal solar time, -- indicated by a sundial, -- is nonuniform with respect to dynamical time. This is another contradiction in a seemingly uniform, formal-logical, temporal labour world.
CarlzimC:The One=Stock Market Investments=Up and Down
juttaschmi:So true, Carl!
CarlzimC:Time no longer exists. Clocks have disappeared from public places.
panta98:But, Jutta, let's proceed to what you indicated before. Yes, Carl. Up-and-down, topsy-turvy!
panta98:Long before the French Revolution, before the political victory of bourgeois-democratic Capital, apparent solar time was invented to regulate agricultural production.
panta98:Coming to the clock just now, Carl.
panta98:During the 17th century, when industrial production had already become dominant in feudalist Europe, demanding exact calculation of socially necessary time, being more suitable for factory work, clocks and watches were invented.
juttaschmi:This is the "Pudels Kern" of time, so to speak!
panta98:However, for our purposes, let's see what the Patrian, the labour "philosophers" thought about the nature and definition of "Time", and its role in the "history" of "action and thought".
panta98:That's where the clock came in, Carl.
juttaschmi:The exact calculation of the socially necessary time to produce a commodity - which determines it's exchange value.
panta98:Yes, Jutta, you are pretty fast!!
juttaschmi:Oops. Sorry, I will slow down a bit.
CarlzimC:History has been continuously revised, but a constant time gives it validity.
juttaschmi:Carl, I think, the roots of the word "time" even denote "splitting up", dividing into parts, with reference to a "continuum".
panta98:Yes, Carl, let's look at some interesting "facts" in the philosophy of history, in the philosophy of time.
panta98:In other words, let's glance freely at some "philosophies" or "theologies" of "time".
juttaschmi:Time is what interrupts a continuum.
CarlzimC:Time for military conquest.
juttaschmi:Makes it "measurable".
panta98:For them, Time appears to be more problematic than Space, because it seems to flow, independent of people, or of their will, while they themselves seem to advance through "Time".
panta98:Again, very swiftly, Jutta.
juttaschmi:Well well!
panta98:However, this passage or advance seems to be unintelligible. In fact, these erudite scholars get the hype, they become hyper: for them the flow or advance comprises a rate of change in relation to something else --to a sort of hypertime.
CarlzimC:Yep, time for colonization.
panta98:Worse even, Carl. We'll come to Space Colonization just now.
CarlzimC: and to exploit the natives.
panta98:Proceeding ... Then they get into a vicious circle: this hypertime itself flows; then, again, they have to invent a hyper-hypertime, and so on, ad infinitum.
CarlzimC:I'm referring to Earth colonies.
panta98:Don't forget to save the chat!
CarlzimC has left the room.
CarlzimC has entered the room.
juttaschmi:Oops, Carl, what happened?
panta98:OK! Back. We waited for you!
juttaschmi:Carl, do you read us?
CarlzimC:Yep
juttaschmi:ok. Pleas continue, Franz
juttaschmi:please
panta98:OK! Proceeding ... We end up with classic "process" (such as Alfred North Whitehead) or "manifold" philosophers (compare: Henri Bergson).
CarlzimC:I got kicked out. Check Jammer.
juttaschmi:ok
panta98:Now to Carl's and Assagioli's favourite: Bergson held that the scientific concept of time as a dimension completely misrepresents reality; also, that this flow can be fathomed only by nonrational intuition.
panta98:It was the "manifold brand" which actually revealed that the flow of time or human advance through time is an illusion, and that it is as much nonsense to try to change the future as it is to talk of changing the past.
juttaschmi:"Flow". Now, what "flows"? Do these thinkers specify, what exactly "flows"?
CarlzimC:Flow = illusion
panta98:Just now, Jutta. of course, the "Holy Ghost" - Time!
juttaschmi:That's for sure, Carl.
juttaschmi:Heracleitus at least stated, that EVERYTHING flows.
panta98:Carl. Probably, this is also valid for "space", for "space travel", and "space colonization".
juttaschmi:(However, what is "everything"?)
CarlzimC: Illusion to explain motion.
panta98:Concerning "everything": As far as the definition of "time" is concerned, the Ludwig Wittgenstein School saw no problem in this age-old puzzle.
juttaschmi:Correctly so, Carl, "flow" is an illusionary concept to explain motion, that is, quantitative motion, exacly expressed in time/space parameters, that is, "visible motion".
panta98:According to its brilliant students, specialists in the philosophy of language, they argued that learning to handle the concept "time" involves a multiplicity of verbal technical skills, including the ability to handle such connected words as earlier, later, now, second, and hour.
CarlzimC:With a connection machine, we could beam up there. Appear on Mars instantaneously.
panta98:Anyhow, this "Sesame, Open!", these verbal skills, according to them, one could acquire in various complex ways (partly by ostension, by displaying). Of course, we are not surprised that they could not distil the meaning of the word "time" into a neat verbal definition.
CarlzimC:Language = resistance to motion
panta98:Well, Dr. Spock, I mean, Carl. Let's visit Scotty "up there"!
juttaschmi:It seems to me, the underlying time conception of these scholars is a pretty linear one, Franz.
CarlzimC:Language = to influence events
panta98:Jutta, of course, what else could they imagine.
juttaschmi:Unfortunately so, Carl.
panta98:Depending on what an event is: Iris and Jutta already saw The Event! T.E.
CarlzimC:Event = instant perception
juttaschmi:Yet, cut the circle of which we spoke earlier, open, and you get a line. Or, bend the line and you get a circle. So, circle and line are two parts of the same thing.
panta98:proceeding ... let's come to Mind and Thought Control. ...
juttaschmi:What an instant perception my country(wo)men!
panta98:However, just as "sinners" in the Middle Ages were mind-controlled to fear the "Second Death", so "Father Time" is being used ideologically to bear powerfully on human emotions and religious feelings.

juttaschmi: End Times! *shiver*

juttaschmi: Apocalypse Now.

panta98: Everybody is being taught to regret their worthless past, to fear the dark future, and that
it is the culprit "Time" that is sweeping them toward their inexorable deaths, as swimmers are
swept toward a dangerous waterfall, toward the infernal maelstrom of final divine judgement.

CarlzimC: Newspeak = Newtime.

juttaschmi: The American 4th Reich goes global.

CarlzimC: Yep.

panta98: Yes, this is Ideolgy, the Cause of Apocalypsis Now!

juttaschmi: Newtime might be no time at all, Carl.

CarlzimC: D'accord, Jutta

panta98: Now, in this respect, what are we being taught from the cradle to the grave?

CarlzimC: To obey.

juttaschmi: That "time goes by", Franz!

juttaschmi: And "time is money", of course.

panta98: Yes, it says: Bye! Bye!

panta98: Firstly, about the irreversibility and inexorability of the passage of time; in other words,
we are born to die! We "know" that our lives can be "nipped in the bud" at any moment of time.

CarlzimC: The same old story.

juttaschmi: True. That's what we are told.

panta98: And the complete Bye! Bye! : Secondly, our growth will definitely be followed by decay,
and then we'll be devoured by the worms.

juttaschmi: Listen to Pink Floyd: "Time"!

CarlzimC: To the old gospel hymn: Sweet Bye and Bye

panta98: Yes, Jutta. Also to "Time and the River"!

panta98: Proceeding. ... Although Death is not necessarily the conclusive "end" of Life,
nevertheless, it is the mind-control, ideological tenet of all world religions (e.g., of Zoroastrianism,
Judaism,Christianity, and Islam).

juttaschmi: "The sun is the same, in a relative way, but you're older, shorter of breath, one day
closer to death!"

panta98: Nearer My Time To Thee!

panta98: Furthermore, for the lucky few, Death is followed by divine, everlasting life elsewhere --
in sheol, hell, or heaven -- and that eventually there would be a universal physical resurrection of
all mankind, independent of race, sex, rich or poor -- we'll all be a final happy or sad family,
either in heaven or in hell.

juttaschmi: "My time has come".

CarlzimC: We are now in 2001. Does it resemble Kubrick's movie?

juttaschmi: Kubrick's movie?

CarlzimC: The famous USA sci-fi movie: 2001.

panta98: Proceeding ... Another version of this Time Continuum: Others (e.g., Buddhists,
Orphics,Pythagoreans, and Plato) believe that people are reborn in the time flow of life on Earth
and that we are real "cats", that is, we have at least nine lives, we just lost our memory of them.
The Buddha even claimed to recollect all of our previous lives.

juttaschmi: Thanks, Carl. - Franz, these notions sort of "transcend" time.

panta98: But they are explained within temporal parameters.

juttaschmi: It seems I have been a hunter in former lives, but definitely not an electrician, Franz!
;-)

panta98: Do you two recollect any early lives?

juttaschmi: I could have been a tree, too.

CarlzimC: I've been a warrior (El Guapo)

panta98: No, Jutta, you were a hairdresser!

juttaschmi: Or a wild goose, chasing for better "times".

juttaschmi: Hahahahhaha!

panta98: Carl was El Guapo, I was El Conde!

juttaschmi: Carl, el Guapo, Franz, el Conde, and Jutta, the Hunter!

juttaschmi: Three Musketeers!

juttaschmi: El Conde  = The Count

juttaschmi: Count Franz

CarlzimC: The Count of Monte Cristo!

panta98: It's not a joke. Some great men actually did so! At the eve of Labour Philosophy,
Pythagoras and Empedocles, of the 6th and early 5th centuries BC, claimed to have recollected
some of their previous lives.

juttaschmi: The Count of Monte Pandemonium.

juttaschmi: Interesting, Franz. What did they say?

panta98: Jutta, that "Western Philosophy" does not tell us!

CarlzimC: Aux, armes cityoens!

juttaschmi: Oui mesieurs!

juttaschmi: (messieux?)

panta98: I was The "Beast", and you were "Beauty", Jutta.

juttaschmi: And also the other way round, Franz!

juttaschmi: ;-)

CarlzimC: Hope my late father is not listening. His view of the French...

panta98: Or were we Xena and Tarzan?

juttaschmi: Oh, oh, Carl, your father didn't like the French? Or did he?

panta98: Proceeding ... What we should try to do, is expressed at best in Indian Philosophy, is to
break this vicious circle (releasing ourselves from Nature, from this sinful world, from this
"sorrowful wheel") by devoted prayers, by strenuous, contemplative, ascetic performances.

CarlzimC: He didn't. He was of German descent

juttaschmi: Oh, I see.

panta98: Hence, even for all of them, Time, the Flow of Time, is an illusion or at best a low-grade
condition by comparison, for example, to the Nirvana.

juttaschmi: Franz, all those philosophies have either the linear or the circled time notion, two sides
of the same notion.

panta98: Until here, my brief remarks, let us discuss these in connection with my short article
mentioned before.

CarlzimC: Janus of Time = Ying Yang

panta98: Yes, Jutta. They did not have the concept, "Non-Time", hence they were not even
dialectical.

juttaschmi: Time, definitely, has been introduced in the course of the labour process. The circled
notion of time in feudalism was replaced by the linear one of bourgeois society. The main function
of time: To determine a commodity's exchange value.

panta98: Now, Carl. How do I travel to Mars, when Time and Space are fake categories, a
phantasmagoria of the Mind?

panta98: Yes, Jutta, and now in Globalism, personalized, private time will emerge,

juttaschmi: Now, as we are heading towards another phase of the labour process, time and also
space disappear correspondingly. The question is: How is intellectual labour being measured,
when physical labour was measured in time parameters?

CarlzimC: Intellectual labor is measured by the ...

panta98: What an answering question, what a questioning answer, Jutta!!

panta98: By what, Carl?

juttaschmi: Is it still the "socially necessary labour time" that determines the exchange value of a
computer microchip? Or of the genetically modified "standard tomato"?

CarlzimC: Intellectual is measured by the speed of immediate gratification.

panta98: Perhaps by the Chinese Janus of Time?

juttaschmi: In which paramteres do you measure intellectual activity?

juttaschmi: Not within the labour relations of this global society, Carl.

CarlzimC: Speed and degree of immediate gratification.

panta98: By Bits, Bites & Bytes, Jutta!

juttaschmi: And speed - is it not yet again measured in time/space paramters?

juttaschmi: Degree. This is an interesting concept.

juttaschmi: Degree, intensity. How do we measure degrees, intensities?

CarlzimC: Speed is measured by MHerz

juttaschmi: Or is the problem, that things have to be "measured" at all?

CarlzimC: Degrees and intensity=arbitrary = scale of 1 to 10 = dollar sales.

juttaschmi: Herz = Frequency

juttaschmi: Hertz

juttaschmi: Frequency refers to the measurement of "periodic" happenings or events.

juttaschmi: And periodic is, once again, a time "phenomenon".

CarlzimC: Frequency is a function of periodic motion

CarlzimC: A motion phenomenon

juttaschmi: Exactly, Carl. Using a different term for "measuring": could we replace it with
"identifying"?

CarlzimC: OK

CarlzimC: Identification = scales 1 to 10 = TV show ratings = surveys

panta98 has left the room.

juttaschmi has left the room.

.... Black Out
 

You have just entered room "CarlzimC Chat08."
juttaschmi has entered the room.
juttaschmi:We've made it!
CarlzimC: Hi, folks
juttaschmi:Hi Carl
juttaschmi:Hope this works out for a while!
juttaschmi:Franz?
CarlzimC:Excellent
juttaschmi:This is chatting "against all odds"!
panta98:Hi! Everybody! Where were we in space?
juttaschmi:Power service is no service at all anymore!
juttaschmi:Okay, let us continue, please. We were considering to replace "measuring" with the term "identifying" to see, if we got nearer to the concept of time.
panta98:OK! Jutta, continue to explain "Time" in Globalization!
CarlzimC:Time in globalization=psychotic takeover
juttaschmi:Time, above all, is a concept. "Anschauungsform des Verstandes", as Kant called it, together with space.
panta98:Remember, Time is an attribute, a property, a function of the Spirit, of the Labour Spirit, which is Society, which is reason, which is Rational Labour, which is Capital, which exploits Nature and Intellect, which exploits space.
juttaschmi:The notions or concepts of time and space have changed within the course of the labour process.
panta98:That's why Space is being Colonized, Dominated.
CarlzimC:which controls the mind
juttaschmi:Colonization only makes sense in "space" and "time" parameters, of course.
panta98:Yes, the Mind of Physical and Intellectual labour.
juttaschmi:So, to "escape" colonization, one would have to transcend space and time.
CarlzimC:Franz, or if space and time are eliminated,
CarlzimC: by beaming, telepathy, etc.
juttaschmi:The basis of beaming and telepathy is exactly the elimination of space and time, Carl.
panta98:Yes, to transcend Maltreated Nature (Space) and Perverse Society (Time), towards Historic Nature and Society (Emancipation)!
CarlzimC:Agreed, Jutta
juttaschmi:Yet, not as "indepentent entities" of the "objective world", but as concepts that became chains to the brains.
juttaschmi:independent
CarlzimC:Toward future history, Franz
panta98:Alienation, Production, Labour is a Relation, which has taken on Time ans Space Forms!
CarlzimC:Yep, Franz
juttaschmi:The very concepts of space and time implanted into our brains for so long become obstacles in the process of their being transcended.
panta98:Time which exploits, Space that is being exploited. you can only exploit in space, using Time as the Dominant Factor.
juttaschmi:So, as the labour process moves on, we are being confronted with changes in the notion of space and time, as the process leaves it's earthbound limits.
CarlzimC:And we have the technology o accomplish this
CarlzimC:to accomplish
panta98:The factory space, its material, natural contents are being exploited, by the socially necessary labour time, by the capitalists, by their Reason, by Rational Labour -- the third side of Labour.
juttaschmi:Changes, or even the elimination of space and time. Yet, this is surely not meant to be "conceived" by the still labouring masses, be it physically, be it intellectually.
CarlzimC:Agreed, Franz and Jutta
panta98:Actually, we can see how Time exploits; everything alienating in this world, happens in Time categories.
juttaschmi:If reason is the "third side" of labour, Franz, does it still belong to the One and All Labour Process, or should we rather say, Reason is neither physical nor intellectual labour and so "transcends" them?
CarlzimC:In Asia, Africa and Latin America, the semi-feudal leaders are aging
panta98:Everything that is being exploited, finds itself in natural regions, even intellectual labour itself.
panta98: In other words, in space.
CarlzimC:The hoi polloi want freedom and democratization
panta98:Time devours Space.
juttaschmi:Have Carl, you and I "eliminated" space by using the internet and having this discussion?
juttaschmi:Could we also do this without the help of the internet, cyber-space?
panta98:However, this Time, this Space, are being produced by Labour, by the Labour Process itself.
CarlzimC:The NWO may support these democritizing trends, speed up their time
panta98:We explained this before in my introductory lecture.
juttaschmi:Could we not sit down and have this conference by telepathic means? Was there a "cyber-space" earlier in the labour process, that did not depend on technology, but on the mere faculties of the brain?
juttaschmi:Is and was there also a cyber-time?
CarlzimC:Jutta, we're moving in that direction
panta98:A labourer can only be exploited in Space and Time -- otherwise it is impossible; he can also only die in Space and Time, otherwise he'll neither live nor die.
CarlzimC:Lebensraum is different today
CarlzimC:Room to transcend
juttaschmi:Lebensraum and Lebenszeit, Carl.
panta98:A stone must fall on his head, through Space, and hit him, in Time, when he passes under the scaffold! otherwise, he cannot die, and is not living either.
juttaschmi:Strangely so, Franz.
CarlzimC:National boundaries will be eliminated
panta98:This actually explains what is what!
CarlzimC:Lebensraum=lebenzseit
panta98:Anybody who never labours, who never had laboured, and who will never ever labour, will not fall in the Space-Time parameters, s(he) would never live, would never die.
juttaschmi:Some"times" it happens to me, that I "see" a person "before" I actually get to see him/her. I think of the person and half a minute later he/she shows up. Anticipation in time and space? Spacetime-Anticipation or neither space nor time notion?
CarlzimC:I'm saving chat parts
panta98:This is the 'miracle" of emancipation, of excellence, of transcendence.
juttaschmi:Thanks, Carl.
panta98:Did we not give these qualities to the gods?
CarlzimC:D'accord, Franz
juttaschmi:Remember what happened with Milagros, Franz? I knew she was around, and just seconds later she would be driving in front of us with her Jeep!
CarlzimC:Jutta, telepathy exists
panta98:That what we have extrapolated, projected to the gods, that is what we have to accomplish, to transcend toward, to excel, to historicize ourselves.
CarlzimC:Yep, Franz. Gott sind uns
juttaschmi:Or I see Tite's pair of keys in our kitchen and I know she will forget them there. When she left later, she had actually forgotten the keys.
CarlzimC:Telepathy, Jutta
juttaschmi:The labour process with its time and space parameters has disabled and crippled the natural faculties of the brain, that transcend these parameters easily.
CarlzimC:Keys transmit electric charge
panta98:If you put Past, Present, Future -- here, there, and elsewhere; all into a relational basket, then the space-time nightmare, becomes a beautiful, natural, Sunday afternoon walking spree.
CarlzimC:D'acord, Franz
panta98:In fact, it is just to understand that Today = Yesterday's Tomorrow!
CarlzimC:On the other side, electronic mind control is quite powerful. I'll send you some stuff I got from Jeff today
juttaschmi:Please do so, Carl.
panta98:To understand this, one needs a multi-logical thought weapon.
juttaschmi:So true, Franz.
CarlzimC:How would you use this weapn, Franz?
panta98:The secret lies in one's memory. Not anamnesis. But a Mind, which can relate totalities, spheres, anything that concerns Nature, Society and History.
juttaschmi:"Die menschliche Waffe ist das Gehirn", as Ernst Bloch said.
juttaschmi:"The human weapon is the brain".
juttaschmi:The HUMAN weapon is the brain.
panta98:Yes, and we have to learn to use it.
juttaschmi:Definitely so, Franz.
panta98:We need Xena-Shotgun-Precision.
CarlzimC:Agreed, Franz
juttaschmi:I'll try my very best! ;-)
panta98:It is sad to see how few people actually think, how hard it is for them to think -- and it is a horror, to know that never ever, not here, not there, not in the hereafter, they will ever be able to think.
panta98:This is the legacy of Mind and Thought Control.
juttaschmi:And of millennia old ideology.
CarlzimC:Sad, Franz
panta98:I cannot even tell them about their mental misery, because to understand that, they have to think at first, and then I need not explain anything to them.
panta98:That is what we meant by being on the "orbit of thinking" already.
CarlzimC:In the Mideast, extremists on both sides live in the 1930's and 40's
CarlzimC:The nut cases are winning over there
juttaschmi:And soon, on a world scale, we will live back in the "time" of Hitler's Germany.
panta98:Yes, Carl, they "live" and that's their problem. Worse even, they die, that's Big Brother's problem, to give them the final blow of grace.
CarlzimC:We're almost there
panta98:The truth is that we have been living Hitler ever since millennia.
juttaschmi:The Second World War is not an isolated "event" or "accident" in history, it is a time-and space transcending nightmare, or rather daymare.
panta98:Who wuill understand that?
CarlzimC:yep, Franz
CarlzimC:Big Brother wants the extremists today
CarlzimC:Tomorry, may be different
juttaschmi:"Extremists", "terrorists", "drug dealers", "criminals" - big brother's own creations.
panta98:Nero, Caligula, Chaka, Draco, Apartheid, McCarthy, "Communism", "Cultural revolution", Spanish Inquisition, Third Reich, Holocaust, etc., etc.
CarlzimC:Tommorow,
CarlzimC:Agreed, guys
juttaschmi:To keep people affirming the system.
panta98:What could be worse for a medieval African slave than that what is now coming in Bush's America? Any qualitative difference?
juttaschmi:I don't see any, Franz. Total exploitation, domination, discrimination and alienation. Total dehumanization.
CarlzimC:Too early
juttaschmi:Variants of "the same old story", that is, the labour process.
panta98:What could be worse than atomic bombs dropping on the "people" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Was Hitler worse? By what measure?
CarlzimC:The African slave may be fed up with it
panta98: Is America getting fascist, or was it so already ab ovo, decades ago?
CarlzimC:The same, Franz.
CarlzimC:Still too early, Franz
panta98:What did Huxley and Orwell describe that the USA is not doing, or plans to do?
CarlzimC:There is resistance, Franz
juttaschmi:Orwell is a "Waisenknabe" compared to today's reality, Franz.
juttaschmi:("Waisenknabe" = orphan)
panta98:And what relevance does it have, whether the USA did it in 1945, 2001 or 2050? Unless we are lovers of formal-logical tictac and zigzac?
panta98:They simply do it! American-European-Soviet Capital has billions of victims already, dead, half-dead, quarter-dead.
juttaschmi:If "space" and "time" are going to be eliminated in the course of the process, what else is going to be eliminated with them? Or, what does the disappearance of space and time parameters indicate with regard to the labour process, Franz?
CarlzimC:Today, it's difficult to idntify who. the NWO wants t.o eliminate
panta98:I said it on various occasions, Labour = Man = Labouring Man = Alienation.
panta98:How will Labour fade into oblivion? Only when man itself vanishes. the Truth is as simple as that!
juttaschmi:Do we talk about "space" and "time" in phenomenological terms? What appears in space and time? The very labour process, so called "History"?
panta98:And, thanks, God, he is vanishing at a very high velocity, as far as Motion, Space and Time are concerned!
CarlzimC:Guys. I gotta leave now. Great chat. Till nefxt time. I'll send the parts.
juttaschmi:When an appearance disappears, does it mean, the thing, that disappears, dies?
panta98:OK! Carl. good Night!
CarlzimC:Bye!
panta98:I'll send you the whole chat, I have all parts!
juttaschmi:Carl, it was a pleasure. Good night.
CarlzimC:Bye!
panta98:Greetings to Fran!!!
juttaschmi:Bye.
panta98:Bye!
CarlzimC has left the room.
 

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