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From on Sun, 01 Oct 2006
Subject: Davies family of Australia
Hello Ms Janson
I have recently come across your site, Website http://www.oocities.org/mepnab/d/d9.html
I would very much appreciate any information that you have with respect to this entry
Your entry differs somewhat from my mother’s notes and family tree, however the names are the same, the spouses and children seem to be different or my mother had no entry for them.
We have Slingsby Davies with wife unknown, and 4 children, Sophie and Simeon as two of them. However there is a good chance that my mother’s records are somewhat mixed up. I do not have any record of another Slingsby that was born in Durham.
We have Arthur (later Colonel unattached to the Army and living in Wye Kent in 1841 and 1851) as the father, married to a Catherine Fenwick (Fenwick is later a name within the family). There is a good chance that Fenwick might have been a middle name if the spouse really is Atkinson. We have one of Slingsby’s brother’s married to an Atkinson.
What I would really like is to have any records or knowledge of how to get your records, so we can rule in or out what you have in your listing.
We live in Western Canada and cannot search Australian records.
My grandmother is the granddaughter of one of Slingsby’s brothers.
Many thanks for any help you can give us,
With kind regards
Judith Pettit
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And I replied
As you live in Canada, I will include the Victorian listing for Slingsby and his family up to 1888, when my CD stops.
I will be happy to look for more data in the Indexes for you. That is my source for my entry on Slingsby Davies - and the two links to Fraser and Rayson.
First - I wondered why I could not find baby Slingsby born 1872, and so used his record number, and found his surname was Davis.
Bad recording or parent could not read or write - the usual state for adults in 1870, when the adults had decided that every child in Victoria should go to school and learn the 3rs
As families were unusually large - the average had about 10 children over 20 years - we can understand why parents needed help raising the children.
Our Index to 1888 has the fields
surname, given name, event, spouse surname or father, spouse given or mother, agem sex, Birth place, death place (after 1866?), Year, Rego number, if church records before 1856. The empty field are comma separated "," which explains the long string. I leave you to format as you wish
"DAVIS","Slingsby","B","Slingsby","Katherine FRAZER","","","BRIG","",1872,"920","","",""
"DAVIES","Slingsby","M","FRASER","Katherine","YORKSKIRE","1869,"3562
"DAVIES","Slingsby","M","FRASER","Hannah Woodhouse","DURHAM","1874,"2514
The next one did not appear in a sort using only Slingsby - another 'spello'
"DAVIES","Simon Lovat Fraser","B","Sllingsby","Catherine FRASER","","","WIND","",1870,"25455","","",""
all entries sorted for Slingsby as father's name (or surname)
"DAVIS","Slingsby","B","Slingsby","Katherine FRAZER","","","BRIG","",1872,"920","","",""
"DAVIES","William","B","Slingsby","Hannah Woodhouse FRASER","","","BRIG","",1875,"7376","","",""
"DAVIES","Susan Mary","B","Slingsby","Hannah Woodhouse FRASER","","","BRIG","",1876,"21186","","",""
"DAVIES","Susan Mary","D","Slingsby","Hannah Woodhouse FRASER","9M","","BRIGHTON","",1877,"7031","","",""
"DAVIES","Katherine Isabel","B","Slingsby","Hannah FRASER","","","BAIR","",1878,"6396","","",""
"DAVIES","Henry","B","Slingsby","Hannah FRASER","","","BAIR","",1879,"20615","","",""
"DAVIES","Violet","B","Slingsby","Hannah FRASER","","","BAIR","",1885,"7276","","",""
"DAVIES","Violet","D","Slingsby","Hannah FRASER","1","","","BDALE",1886,"11508","","",""
"DAVIES","Sopia Emmie","B","Slingsby","Hannah Woodhouse FRASER","","","BTON","",1888,"855","","",""
"REARDON","Mary","D","Slingsby Michae","Mary UNKNOWN","71","","","SANDHURST",1888,"7640","","",""
and there is only one with surname
"SLINGSBY","George","D","Unknown","","68","","LOND","",1875,"12198","","",""
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Second letter on Mon, 02 Oct 2006
CC: "Ruth Barton" ruthbarton of shaw spot ca
Hello Elizabeth
Many thanks for your reply and your help. Your information is very helpful.
Our concerns, questions etc arise from the following your website and the below that you sent : -
We have no spouse for Slingsby Davies (family known as Davis on various census records, but more recently as Davies) christened Headingley, Yorkshire. I thought at first that you had two Slingsby Davies with different wives, but on studying the site more, and the below records, I believe you mean marriage 1 to Katherine Fraser and marriage 2 to Hannah Woodhouse Fraser. Do you know for sure that they were sisters, their birthplaces seem to be different and I assume those are in Ireland (or does Australia have the same names - a common problem with the colony countries like Canada and Australia!) Am I right when I think that Slingsby married both women in Australia? Hannah after the death of Katherine.
My mother shows only 4 children for Slingsby and his unknown wife... Two unnamed and Sophie and Simon. She did not know that he married twice... I think my grandmother probably did not know a great deal about the family that went to Australia and stayed there.
With respect to the Davies (Davis) family, I have information on the forbearers of Slingsby. The one thing that confounds us is the marriage of Arthur (Slingsby's father) to Catherine. Our family records show that he married Catherine Fenwick. Do you have the marriage or a source for that where we could check that you are right and we are not? Family records also show that William Davies (brother to Slingsby) was married to an
Atkinson.
I have seen the IGI at Scarborough of a marriage of Arthur Davies and Catherine Atkinson and the date is good, but I don't know if that is the correct Arthur. I would appreciate any information that you have to offer with respect to this for us.
Slingsby Davies (Davis) had three other brothers that we know of who came to Australia, and did not stay. Arthur Davies, who is shown on the 1861 English census as the proprietor of houses and lands in Australia, William, and Henry. One of these (Henry we thought till yesterday) was the father of my great grandfather Charles Arthur Davies, and one of the others (William) was the father of my great grandmother Ellen Augusta Davies. Charles and Ellen were first cousins and married and they were both born in Australia.
I would very much appreciate the birth records if you have them for Arthur Charles Davies born Prahran Australia 21/04/1854 Arthur Charles had a brother Fairfax who was also born in Australia c1856 Ellen Augusta Davies born Dandenong Australia 10/11/1857 Ellen had two siblings, Catherine Mary Davies born Australia c 1856
And Arthur Harwood Davies born c1861
If we get the birth records of Arthur Charles and/or Fairfax we will know for sure whether Henry or Arthur is the father of them.
The records for the Davies Family show that early census records in 1841 and 1851 have the name as Davis more often than not, but it seems that by the time of the Slingsby's childrens' generation all families were called
Davies, and that was the name of my great grandfather Arthur Charles and his cousins etc. I do not think that the variations in the name are due to the inability to read and write as in many branches (of our family and others).
Often it is a mistake by the census taker who writes what he or she hears.
However, Slingsby's father was Arthur Davies, who became a Colonel, and mostly lived on his own means. He was generally unattached or on half pay with the army and was a farmer of 300 acres+ at Withersdane Hall in Wye Kent And on all census records there were governesses and servants. I think they were fairly well educated.
I do not have any record of the Reardon or George Slingsby, though there is a branch of Slingsbys that are somehow related to the Davies. It was my understanding that a Thomas Slingsby or someone was a brother to one of the wives of the Davies sons at some stage. There was a Charles Henry R Slingsby who lived here in Victoria and was a cousin of my grandmothers and came from England with his wife.
Well, I have asked a lot of questions, and I do so appreciate your contact and your help.
Kind regards, Judith
I have cc'd my sister Ruth on this as she is working on the family tree with me.
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And I replied
2nd letter
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006
Hi Two
This is just a start - nearly bed time here in Victoria, Australia.
I have two web pages
Davies
http://www.oocities.org/mepnab/d/d9.html
Fraser
http://www.oocities.org/mepnab/ef/f30.html
Notes- These references all come from the Victorian Index, each state is separate.
You can purchase these certificates yourself to see what extra information is there - will include the informant for the burials.
For marriage will include ages, birthplaces and parents names, former wife, children living and dead if previously married - can be fun!
I would be hoping that the first marriage of Slibgsby Davies would be where he correctly names his parents - and that would be great.
Second marriage in theory should have the same details with extra about previous wife -
Death certificate would not be reliable unless it confirms what is already known.
For family lists, the idea is to get a certificate for the last born child, expecting the full list of siblings as well as details of parents marriage and ages .. (live in hope). First-born may be better for details of parents...
Is this your Charles?
"DAVIES","Arthur","M","FENWICK","Elizabeth Christiana","","M","","",1853,"26161","Church of England","ST PAULS,
MELBOURNE","381"
"DAVIES","Arthur Charles","B","Arthur","Elizabeth Chri FENWICK","","","PRAH","",1854,"1765","","",""
"DAVIES","Fairfax","B","Arthur","Elizabeth Christi FENWICK","","","PRAHRAN","",1856,"600","","",""
"DAVIES","Henry William","B","Arthur","Elizabeth Christiana FENWICK","","","KEW","",1859,"17401","","",""
"DAVIES","Henry William","D","Arthur","Elizabeth Christiana FENWICK","5M","","KEW","",1859,"7295","","",""
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and your Ellen? - fits the dates you sent
"DAVIES","Catherine Mary","B","William","Sarah Anne WILLIAMS","","","PRAHRAN","",1856,"950","","",""
"DAVIES","Ellen Augusta","B","William","Sarah Anne WILLIAMS","","","DANDENONG","",1858,"953","","",""
"DAVIES","Arthur Harwood","B","William","Sarah An WILLIAMS","","","EM E","",1860,"13164","","",""
"DAVIES","M","B","William","Sarah Ann WILLIAMS","","","DANDENONG","",1870,"8181","","",""
"DAVIES","Unnamed Male","D","William","Sarah Ann WILLIAMS","3D","","DAND","",1870,"3998","","",""
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Concerning Kate
"DAVIS","Katherine","D","Fraser Simon L","Frances ROCHEAD","28","","CLAR","",1872,"496","","",""
"DAVIES","Slingsby","M","FRASER","Katherine","","","YORKSKIRE","",1869,"3562","","",""
"FRASER","Katherine","M","DAVIES","Slingsby","","","CLARE","",1869,"3562","","",""
"DAVIES","Slingsby","M","FRASER","Hannah Woodhouse","","M","DURHAM","",1874,"2514","","",""
"FRASER","Hannah Woodhouse","M","DAVIES","Slingsby","","F","CORK","",1874,"2514","","",""
"FRASER","Simon Lovat","M","ROCHEAD","Susan Mary Cleghorn","","M","CO CLARE","",1883,"3792","","",""
"ROCHEAD","Susan Mary Cleghorn","M","FRASER","Simon Lovat","","F","EDINBORO","",1883,"3792","","",""
Shipping records
The El Dorado came Nov 1852 with 361 passengers, including the Fraser family of Simon 34, Mrs -, Kate 7, June 6, Hannah 5 and infant.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search_results.asp
Unassisted Immigration to Victoria
Sort for Fraser, El Dorado 1852
or any fields you wish.
For some reason it dowes not give neat alphabetic lists - a bug that appeared a couple of months ago
http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/servlet/bdm_home
BMD in Victoria, historical indexes
You can purchase ....
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Tue, 03 Oct 2006
Hi Elizabeth
Many, many thanks for your email and the information that you supplied.
Its marvellous and so very helpful.
My mother's records show her grandfather as Henry Davies (father of Arthur Charles) and a 1861 census made us think that this was incorrect. Now you have confirmed that Arthur was the father of Arthur Charles.
What you sent to us is indeed our family, and those are siblings of Slingsby Davies who apparently married Katherine Fraser and then Hannah Fraser.
We need a bit more help if you are willing.
We have an Arthur Harwood Davies who was born in Victoria Australia c1861 We do not know who his father is and he married later in England. I think they all returned to England save Slingsby. If you can find anything on him, his birth, then we would know where he fits.
Slingsby, Arthur, and William (he died between 1861 and 1871) had other siblings and I am not sure if any of the male siblings went to Australia as well.
These siblings were Henry b. 1829, Frederick b c1838, and Thomas b. c1840.
Henry was unmarried and living in England
There were sisters as well, Sophia Catherine b. c1831, and Emma Mary Jane b. c1836
Thank you for your information on other sites to look and the site to buy the BMD records. We will look at that and how to proceed.
You have no idea how helpful this information was. We cannot believe we came across your site and it has led to this. We were having some trouble with our Davies line, knowing that some of them went to Australia, and with a name like Davies it isn't easy. Luckily, although my mother had some of the information mixed up, with names like Slingsby, and Fairfax it has helped. Makes the Davies not quite so common!
Thanks again, and we do so appreciate your help.
Kind regards
Judith
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Yes, here is Arthur
"DAVIES","Arthur Harwood","B","William","Sarah An WILLIAMS","","","EM E","",1860,"13164","","",""
How did I miss him?
Well, I sorted for William, and Sarah Anne, forgot 'Rule 53 (and all other numbers, too) - Never assume you are right!'
You are doing well.
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