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Betsy Wragg and James Poynton

Families featured on this page
William Brown, Edith Cath Hennessy, Alice Emma Hill, Henry James Jackson,
Denis MacArty, Robert John Morse, James Poynton,

From on Thu, 20 May 2004

Hi Elizabeth,

My name is Helene and I am a descendant of Dennis Mc Carthy and Betsy Wragg, I was thrilled when a friend told me about your web page. I have notice an error in your details, Betsy was married to James Poynton on the 17 April 1862. I would love to hear from you and exchange details.

See Poynton Family Web Site
Jane Wragg died 1796 - 1875 #9095 aged 79, daughter of Phebe Taylor and Joseph Stanton of Tipt
Jonathan Wragg died 1800 - 1880 #5714 aged 80, son of Edward Wragg
Betsey Rag was Christened 12 Aug 1832 dau of Jane and Jonathan Rag, at Saint Bartholomew, Wednesbury, Stafford, England
Betsy Wragg was wife of Denis MacArty. May be Dennis Mccarthy died 1859 #6828 aged 30, parents unknown, or Denis Mccarthy died 1862 #4424 aged 39 from London parents unknown. Family has checked these deaths and 'our Denis' died 1859

James Poynton 1827 - 1901 #7257 aged 74, son of Betsy Wragg and William Poynton (from his death certificate), wed 1862 #2131 to Betsy Mcarty nee Wragg 1832 - 1899 #15721 aged 67, daughter of Jane Stanton and Jonathon Wragg, and lived at BetBet, Maryborough then Timor

7 Children

1. Ellen Macarty 1857 #11944 born at Dunolly
2. Sarah Jane Mecarty 1859 #9513 born at Bet Bet
3. William Poynton 1863 #1946 - 1936 #19538 aged 74, born at Bet Bet
4. Phebe Poynton 1865 #3359, born at Maryborough
5. Elizabeth Poynton 1867 #9276 wed William Arthur Hargreaves 1870 #11588
6. Jonathan Thos Poynton 1868 #20068, born at Timor
7. Betsy Ann Poynton 1871 #20165

1. Ellen Macarty 1857 #11944 as Mecarthy then McCarty, wed 1880 #1477 to William Brown from England, and lived at Inglewood

5 Children

1. James Brown 1880 #16640 - 1880 #7429 lived 1 day
2. William Brown 1881 #24263
3. John Thomas Brown 1883 #24268
4. James Samuel Brown 1885 #18680
5. Ellen Hannah Brown 1887 #29350

From on Mon, 12 Apr 2004

A search on Betsy Wragg gave me a link to your Family History web site.
Under an entry for James POYNTON, Betsy McCarty (nee Wragg) is correctly noted as being his wife - Betsy's second marriage. James( the same person as above) Is noted as being the son of Betsy Wragg & William Poynton. I am assuming that this is an error.
Or: Was there another Betsy Wragg ?
My connection - Betsy's 1st child born to Dennis McCarty - Ellen - was the mother of John (Brown) who was my GF, so Betsy was my GGGM.

-----------------------

I replied - Hi,
I have just listed what is in the death index for James. It is not unusual for these details to be wrong, in this case a mix-up with wife's name. The only source I can see that may give more reliable names for James' parents is the marriage certificate for Betsy and James number 1862 #2131

I wish you luck with this search.

I have been looking to see if I could find death of Denis, and found two. Then I looked for parents of Betsy and found
Jane Wragg died 1875 #9095 aged 79, daughter of Phebe Taylor and Joseph Stanton of Tipt
Jonathan Wragg died 1880 #5714 aged 80, son of Edward Wragg

Does this fit with your family knowledge?

-----------------------------------

Bob replied

Am fairly certain that Den(n)is's death is recorded in the Victorian BDM index Ref no. 1859/6828, at Maryborough Vic. C1859. There was an inquest into this death Ref 783. Finding - suicide by drowning. I have not seen the Inquest documentation. A relative who is researching this family has accessed the document at The Victorian Public Records Office and is reasonable sure that it is "our" Den(n)is McCarty.

Betsy is a critical individual in fleshing out my Family History, as well as being my GGGM, she was effectively (as Betsy Poynton ) the 'mother' of my GF John Brown and his brothers, as they were orphaned all under 10 yrs old.

The names of the Ships on which Betsy and Den(n)is McCarty emigrated have so far proved elusive.
If by some remote chance those ships' names are in your data ...!

3. William Poynton 1863 #1946 - 1936 #19538 aged 74 wed 1894 #5291 to Alice Emma Hill 1866 #21872 born at Inglewood, and lived at Rheola

7 Children

1. Eva Mary Poynton 1895 #32188
2. Flor Alice Hill Poynton 1897 #30715
3. Ellen Carol Poynton 1899 #29313
4. Olive Rosa Poynton 1901 #6060
5. William James Poynton 1904 #20810R
6. Alice Hazel Ruth Poynton 1906 #13408
7. Harold Edwd Jno Poynton 1907 #29738

4. Phebe (Phoebe) Poynton 1865 #3359 wed 1887 #3157 to Henry James Jackson 1862 #16599 son of Jessie MacFarlane and James Jackson born at The Loddon, and lived at Rheola

5 Children

1. Margaret Elizh Jackson 1889 #33568 lived 2 years
2. Jessie Evylin Jackson 1891 #16394
3. Phoebe Ida Mary Jackson 1893 #25835 wed George Soulsby in 1914 and dau Jean Soulsby born 1920 is my mother worte on Tue, 14 Jun 2005.
4. Hy Jas Jackson 1895 #15348
5. Alma Isabella Jackson 1897 #13877

6. Jonathan Thos Poynton 1868 #20068 wed 1895 #4187 to Edith Cath Hennessy 1874 #4244 born at Bright, and lived at Korumburra

5 Children

1. Francis Vincent Poynton 1897 #29183
2. Leander Jos Poynton 1899 #18258
3. Mona Eileen Poynton 1896 #21066
4. Edith Magdalen Poynton 1902 #18011
5. Lilian Margt Poynton 1904 #25421
6. Alex Elmore Poynton 1908 #28829
7. Arth Jas Poynton 1910 #19503
8. Jos Jno Poynton 1913 #3879

7. Bessie Ann Poynton 1871 - 1954 #7872 aged 83, wed 1901 #4517 to Robert John Morse 1867 - 1948 #13118 aged 59, 4 children

Wragg

Jonathan Cragg 52, came Jan 1854 on the Marco Polo with Edward Cragg 25, Mary A Cragg 25, Jane Cragg 25, Betsy Cragg 21, and an infant - Arrival found on 24 Oct 2006

Betsy Cragg is probably Betsy Wragg, daughter of Phebe Taylor and Joseph Stanton, so a neice to Jane Stanton who came with her husband - see above story of James Poynton

Jonathan Wragg and Jane Stanton may have come to Victoria in a family group that included at least two married sons. This assumption is based on the fact that two children surnamed Wragg are listed as being 'born at Sea' in 1854.
Jane Wragg died 1796 - 1875 #9095 aged 79, daughter of Phebe Taylor and Joseph Stanton of Tipt
Jonathan Wragg died 1800 - 1880 #5714 aged 80, son of Edward Wragg

William Wragg came to Victoria, then wed at St James' Church of England, Melbourne 1852 #6055 to Jane Mank. William Davis Wragg 1816 - 1854 #5566 aged 38 parents unknown, death before Victoria was separated from new South Wales.

Frances Mary Wragg/Wragge wed 1854 #700 to James Thomas Webb and lived at South Yarra then after 1859 at Linton

3 children

1. Adeline Victoria Webb 1858 #11090
2. Cassandra Webb 1860 #19664
3. Ernest Augustus Webb 1862 #9125 - 1863 #8582 lived 19 months

Edward Wragg 25 arrived in Jan 1854 on the Marco Polo with Mary Ann Male c1830 and their son Chas Henry Marco Wragg born at Sea died 1854 #728 aged 10 weeks. They lived at Avoca, Bet Bet, Maryborough then at Timor

7 children

1. Chas Henry Marco Wragg born at Sea died 1854 #728 aged 10 weeks
2. Mary Jane Wragg 1856 #5784 wed 1881 826 to James Square
3. Alice Eliza Wragg 1859 #9507
4. Isabella Matilda Wragg 1862 #7959
5. Adelaide Louisa Wragg 1865 #9690
6. Henry Albert Wragg 1867 #25051
7. William Charles Wragg 1867 #25050

George Wragg came Mar 1852 on the Martin Luther with Anne Glaves 1826 - 1885 #10397 aged 69 daughter of Elizabeth and John Glaves died at South Yarra, and their son George Luther born at Sea died 1854 #1123 aged 2 years. They moved to Prahan then to South Yarra

7 children

1. Maria Wragg 1846
2. Elizabeth Wragg 1848
3. Agnes Wragg 1850
4. George Luther Wragg born at Sea died 1854 #1123 aged 2 years
5. Alfred Wragg 1854 #4092 born at Melbourne
6. Emily Wragg 1856 #7567 wed 1888 #8623 to George Henry Vizard
7. Theopilus Wragg 1859 #1638 wed 1888 #4974 to Catherine Dacey

Jonathan Wragg 26 came June 1855 on the Admiral Boxer with Phebe Buckley 1832 - 1867 #3384 aged 35, daughter of Elizabeth Blinstone and John Buckley of Manchester, and lived at Richmond. Note that two girls died in a week in 1861, and Phebe and her baby died together in 1867

5 children

1. Ann Wragg c1852
2. Joseph Wragg c1854
1. Elizabeth Wragg 1856 #7743 - 1861 #1013 lived 4 years
2. Mary Wragg 1858 #10911 - 1861 #1019 lived 2 years
3. Sarah Ann Wragg 1861 #6711 wed 1888 #4658 to Robert Burnett Courtney from New Zealand
4. William Wragg 1863 #10330
5. Arthur Wragg 1866 #4464 - 1867 #3285 lived 11 months

Ann Maria Wragg from Sheffield wed 1868 #1536 to Richard Ord from Carlisle, and lived at Prahan

4 children

1. George Thomas Ord 1871 #11451
2. Richard Ord 1873 #19163 - 1874 #11643 lived 1 year
3. Annie Ord 1877 #17814
4. Lizzie Ord 1880 #24405

Joseph Wragg from Derbyshire wed 1874 #2232 to Melia/Amelia White and lived at Richmond

7 children

1. Arthur John Wragg 1875 #4934 - 1877 #9241 lived 2 years
2. William Henry Joseph Wragg 1877 #4598
3. Francis Wragg 1878 #18533 - 1879 #6095 lived 10 months
4. Annie/Annise Phoebe Wragg 1881 #4982 - 1883 #3039 lived 2 years
5. Leslie Wragg 1883 #11879
6. Amelia Reubina Wragg 1886 #5796
7. Ethel Rhoda Wragg 1888 #15033

Georgina Wragg 1829 - 1869 #5780 aged 40 daughter of Georgina and Thomas Wragg of London, aged 28 came Nov 1855 on the Blackwall and wed 1862 #308 to William Pestell 1819 - 1883 #11247 aged 64, son of Elizabeth Swepston and William Pestell, and lived at Williamstown.
He was possibly brother of James Pestell who wed 1862 to Agnes Murdock and lived at Kyneton, and of Frederick Charles Pestell and Elizabeth Flanders.

1 child

1. Wm Pestell 1868 #13075

Frederick Wragg 1820 - 1883 #1794 aged 63 parents not known, from Cheshire came aged 38 in Jan 1857 on the William with Mary Ann 41, 1815 - 1876 #9119 aged 62 dau of Thomas Millar.
Frederick Wragg wed 1877 #4131 to Eliza Farrelle and lived at Hamilton
Elizabeth Wragg nee Farelle from Adelaide wed 1888 #2927 to Thomas Cummins

4 children

1. William Wragg 1878 #3112
2. Frederick Armytage/Permytage Wragg 1879 #16738 - 1881 #10666 lived 2 years
3. Daisy Adelaide Jane Wragg 1881 #9980
4. Alice Mabel Wragg 1882 #23557

Alice Wragg 1851 - 1876 #13059 aged 25 daughter of Rosetta Sparr and Jonathan Wragg of Derbyshire

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