(early 2005)
The top message is the most recent. By reading from the bottom you will get them in the sequence they were posted.
Name (optional) : Ted
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Why dont the quote of the week links have hot links to sources of the quotes?
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Name (optional) : Bill
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Email (optional) : moneybags@aussiemail.com.au
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : interesting site to say the least
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Name (optional) : Melissa
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : In the US, in the places I dialysed, we were never pushed on to a list. Face it norm, you can try to argue whatever point you want. THe organ waiting time is not inflated because patients are coerced. They are
Comment (second 35 words) : long simply because the amount patients waiting for transplant is far larger than the available organs. This is not a conspiracy, try not to make it one. THat is silly.
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Name (optional) : lilian
Address (optional) : philippines
Email (optional) : lidyoung
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Medical staff pressure dialysis patients to sign onto the waiting list to inflate these lists.
Comment (second 35 words) : This makes the situation appear more desperate so the government becomes more justified in: quicker brain-death diagnosis and harvesting;
Comment (third 35 words) : assuming they can remove organs without permission from next-of-kin. The Australian government is in this process.
Name (optional) : pete
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : This quote of the week makes it seem that Dialysis patients are helplessly sitting by while being forced onto lengthy transplant weight lists against their better judgement. I would love to see the whole essay
Comment (second 35 words) : when I google it in the US I only get three hits, two bring me back to your web site and one is only accessible by members. For all the patients who feel forced into a transplant, please dont be
Comment (third 35 words) : There is a seven year waiting list in New York City for a cadaveric transplant. I bet if ALL the patients that Norm is referring to dropped off the list, it would become a 6 year and 364 day wait instead.
Name (optional) : jon
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I have read your entire site. It is incredible. You are right on target! There is so much more that is even worse that is going on. I know quite a few people in the transplant industry, if I told
Comment (second 35 words) : you some of the information that I know to be true, I think even you would be shocked.
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Name (optional) : Odin
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Yup, youre a paladin of the intellect.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : NHBD is when patients hearts are deliberately stopped by withdrawing medical support then jump started with DC current a few minutes later and treated as if dead while harvesting begins.
Comment (second 35 words) : Cardiac death donation is when the donors heart has stopped permanently and the kidneys or lungs removed from a dead body.
Comment (third 35 words) : The latter is done in Japan where the concept of brain death is not accepted by the general population.
Name (optional) : Melissa
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I thought you approved of NHBD.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Considering that barbiturate overdose people can be revived after 45 minutes without a heartbeat and without noticeable brain damage then at least that amount of time should pass before they are
Comment (second 35 words) : considered dead though to be safe perhaps a few hours. Similarly, with hypothermia, a few hours. With NHBD perhaps less time since it would be clear they wouldnt be on drugs that protect the brain during
Comment (third 35 words) : reduced blood flow. But certainly not the proposed 2 or 5 minutes after heart beat cessation. NHBDonation is virtual voluntary euthanasia and death is caused by the harvesting.
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : yes norm, but the topic you wished to talk about i have no knowledge about. i know more about procurement
Comment (second 35 words) : so lets talk about that, and of course for procurement to happen you have to have a donor either living (living not brain dead i.e. friend or family donation) or dead NHBD or brain dead
Comment (third 35 words) : i was wondering what your belief is about death and when YOU believe a person is dead ....what in your mind constitues dead??
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Liz: what am I wrong about, precisely, and where is SC?
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Hey, parker, werent you going to discuss and debate issues?...rather than fire off questions.
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Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, what is your definition of death...and what do you consider someone dead.??...i am very interested in your answer
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Name (optional) : Liz
Address (optional) : SC
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I was appalled to read your site because I have been beside involved in this and you are wrong. In SC this does NOT happen.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : TransplantRN: Im not sure if Germanys heart transplant policy has changed as a result of Mario Dengs study. The study was finished in mid-2000.
Comment (second 35 words) : Youre still describing good and intelligent intentions, but there still isnt a statistical study to show that heart transplant recipients, on average, have a
Comment (third 35 words) : longer life expectancy than those of similar illness level that miss out on the transplant for logistical, tissue matching or other reasons. Dont you think this is incredibly unusual?
Name (optional) : Transplant RN cont
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : of greater than two years without a transplant. Dr. Dengs study was done more than 5 years ago in Germany, do you know whether they are still following the same
Comment (second 35 words) : guidelines for transplant today?
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Name (optional) : Transplant RN cont
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : With that knowledge the patients are given the option of being listed for a transplant or not. Our patients are informed that the transplant may not work.
Comment (second 35 words) : They know that there are risks. However when that transplant is successful, the quality and length of life for these patients can be greatly extended. I think
Comment (third 35 words) : Dr. Dengs study is valuable. Perhaps his study has in some way contributed to the UNOS guidelines of not transplanting patients with a life expectancy
Name (optional) : Transplant RN
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Unfortunately, with any kind of medical procedure there is a gamble. Where I work we inform patients of this. There is no promise that a transplant will not
Comment (second 35 words) : reject, or that the patient will not get an infection post op. There are inherent risks in all surgery. With that said however, potential heart transplant
Comment (third 35 words) : recipients are thouroughly evaluated and chosen only if to the best of our physicians knowledge, without a transplant they will not survive for 2 years
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : TransplantRN: they are valid guidelines, but they arent proof that those receiving hearts live longer than those missing out.
Comment (second 35 words) : Mario Dengs study does indicate this and the heart transplant industry cant produce a comparable study showing the opposite.
Comment (third 35 words) : Dengs study is in the British Medical Journal. A link is on the Photo Gallery page or via http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/321/7260/540
Name (optional) : Transplant RN
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, According to UNOS (United Network of Organ Sharing)guidelines, patients listed for heart transplants must have failed more
Comment (second 35 words) : conservative therapies, including medical and surgical therapies, they must also have a life expectancy of less than two years. This is in the US.
Comment (third 35 words) : I do not know about any other countries guidlines for cardiac transplantation.
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : TransplantRN: no, I cant say Id reject a heart transplant if the only other option was to die: approaching death makes people do desperate things.
Comment (second 35 words) : With regard to your statement: heart transplants are done only when all other more conservative treatments have failed, and the patient will not survive without a transplant.
Comment (third 35 words) : Where is your proof that this is correct? Mario Dengs research of Germanys 1997 transplant waiting list indicates the opposite. Where is the evidence to prove what you say is true?
Name (optional) : Transplant RN
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : In the USA heart transplants are done only when all other more conservative treatments have failed, and the patient will not survive without a transplant.
Comment (second 35 words) : Norm, has your research in Australia proven different? If your only alternative to transplant was death, can you say with certainty, that you would
Comment (third 35 words) : opt to die?
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Dear Horrified, If heart disease became apparent I might try other forms of treatment rather than transplanting - the success rate is often higher.
Comment (second 35 words) : This attitude is from a Machiavellian viewpoint rather than ideological.
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Name (optional) : A Horrified Reader
Address (optional) : Victoria, Australia
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I was horrified by your web site content, its selfish contempt to life and indifference to human suffering. I have just one wish for you: I wish to see you on a heart transplant waiting list very, very soon.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : RN Tampa: no, i dont object. Sam: maybe you have a point. Can you explain further?
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Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : RN Tampa: Of course there are positive examples of transplant experiences. What Im trying to show is the other side of organ donation - from a technical standpoint.
Comment (second 35 words) : Then people can see the good and bad of transplanting. For example: a different attitude toward doctors and sick relatives is developing as stories leak out about shocking harvest scenes and
Comment (third 35 words) : relatives pressured to donate for harvesting their breathing, heartbeating next of kin before they fully die. Things the organ donation agencies gloss over.
Name (optional) : Sam
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Please read the entire paper from where the weekly quote is taken.(there is a link listed below the quote) It is almost funny how Norm has taken these two quotes
Comment (second 35 words) : so completely out of context in order to change the direction of the entire paper. I believe that many of the quotes contained at this web site are misguided in
Comment (third 35 words) : much the same way. Norm please explain how you have chosen this quote of the week.
Name (optional) : RN Tampa (cont)
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : donation. Do you have objections to this? If a parent wishes to give a child a kidney, do you object to this?
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Name (optional) : RN Tampa
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I also have cared for patients in heart failure who had days or weeks to live. They often cannot even get out of bed to get into a chair. It is amazing and
Comment (second 35 words) : gratifying to see these patients after a transplant leading normal happy lives. I have cared for many of these post transplant patients for ten years or longer.
Comment (third 35 words) : If you could see this miracle Norm, I think your beliefs might change. I also have noticed you have never answered the reader who asked you about living related
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, I know a number of heart recipients who were given literally weeks to days to live and have lived up to 20 years with their heart transplant.
Comment (second 35 words) : I have no idea where you get your facts, but they appear to be full of rubbish.
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Where heart transplant recipients live longer than those of similar illness levels who miss out on a transplant due to logistics or tissue matching problems, etc.
Comment (second 35 words) : Mario Dengs study at Columbia University, using Germanys Heart waiting list of 1997, suggests that, on average, they dont.
Comment (third 35 words) : Is there any proof that they do, on average, live longer than those who miss out? This is the first topic I suggest.
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : How about you pick the topic as there are so many id love to chat about, but have difficulty picking the first one!
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Name (optional) : norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Parker: Yes, at any point you disagree with the website, preferably citing research papers, though your personal experience is also valid
Comment (second 35 words) : Subjects: anti-rejection drugs causing new illnesses; the fiction of the brain death diagnosis; organ donation agencies keeping donors ignorant that their hearts will be beating
Comment (third 35 words) : when harvesting begins. - and theyll get no anaesthetic; whether heart recipients live longer than those who miss out on a transplant heart. So many interesting topics.
Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Yes i do have knowledge of this field...do you have specific topics you cover you would like me to share my knowledge about
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Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : If a source cannot or wont be named, and cannot be verified, then the reader can make a judgement as to its accuracy based on the overall reliability of the website.
Comment (second 35 words) : You may decide not to believe the unnamed source. But, overall, we are quibbling and would better serve the interests of public understanding of transplant issues by discussing technical aspects.
Comment (third 35 words) : Do you have knowledge in this field you would like to share with the public? What have you read?
Name (optional) : Parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Norm, there is no need to get so defensive when i was asking about your source in the UK.
Comment (second 35 words) : i am intrigued by your website and the infomation it gives, but there really is no need to get defensive when it is questioned
Comment (third 35 words) : even you must admit to quote a source, but not be able to reveal how do we know they are real, just like you like a name to postings!!
Name (optional) : Norm
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : Mr Alphabet: if organs can be grown or manufactured, as you say, then why harvest brain dead humans whose hearts are still beating, and whose relatives are occasionally reluctant to give permission.
Comment (second 35 words) : Where are organs, Mr Alphabet, grown, manufacted or engineered, as you put. Parker: You havent been checking the responses: I said the source outside the United Kingdom is my private source and the
Comment (third 35 words) : professional hasnt given permission for his/her name to be used. Be more challenging and introduce technical argument: do some research.
Name (optional) : parker
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Comment (holds up to 35 words) : where in the article from the BBC does it say the below.....i found NO mention of it and if it is a quote from 1 of your sources please reference a name to validate
Comment (second 35 words) : However, a source outside of the United Kingdom suggests that better technology throwing doubts on the accuracy of “brain death” diagnosis, and the risk of harming a still-living patient further with the apnea “brain death” test, has discouraged young doc
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Name (optional) : Mr Alphabet
Address (optional) : http://www.mralphabet.blogspot.com
Email (optional) : mralphabet@hotmail.com
Comment (holds up to 35 words) : I found The Nasty Side of Organ Transplanting by Norm Barber to be a load of bollox. My primary objection being that: most organs essential for human life can now be grown, manufacted or engineered. EXCEPT FOR THE BRAIN.
Comment (second 35 words) : With not chance of brain recovery, I dont see any reason in sustaining the life of the patient. That nurses continue to talk to deep coma patients, is a perculiarity, but IN NO WAY EVIDENCE of ongiong brain function of the patient.
Comment (third 35 words) : I think organ donation is a perfectly acceptable and neccesary procedure. If you suggest that it should not be employed, think of your familys suffering when you turn down an organ required to sustain your life. Would you turn down that organ?
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