Pat's Informative Baby Circumcision Site
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Personal Stories, Quotes and Site Content Feedback
"Habit and routine have an unbelievable power to waste and destroy." --Henri de Lubac
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Personal Stories:
Many of the following unedited experiences were culled from blogs and parenting forums. Common abbreviations used are ds = dear son and dh = dear husband.
Husband Learns in Sad Ironic Twist
On a personal note, I hadn't done the research with my first son, but by the time my second son was born, I knew I didn't want him circ., but dh insisted. Despite MANY discussions, (some heated) he would not change his mind. He didn't think it would be right to have one son circ. and the other one not, even though I tried to reason w/ him and point out the boys would not be comparing their penises- dh also used the argument about circ. penises not not being as clean and hygienic, and his sons looking like him- again, do father and sons really compare them?
I refused to sign the circ. papers at the hospital and left it to dh- and I didn't go to either circ., but INSISTED they use lanocaine (sp?) it is like novicane and numbs (and the hospital assured me they did all circ. w/ lanocaine), but it just makes me cringe to think about both my boys even having shots there- I really can't even think about this too much, b/c it makes me SO upset. It is the one point that dh and I argued over more than anything w/ all the decisions you have to make. Sometimes I think I should have been stronger for my sons, and not finally given in, but after birth & pregnancy I was just too tired to fight about it anymore. I hope one day, I can talk to them about them and tell them I really didn't want them circ. - I hope they won't hate us down the road for this.
Finally (sorry this is so long) I am still really angry at dh for choosing this, and talk about irony- after son #2 was born, he was telling his parents (when I wasn't there) that I didn't want baby boy circ. and he went on and on w/ his parents on about how hard it was to keep uncirc. ones clean, etc., His father got up and left, and then his mom told him that his father was uncirc. Dh had no idea- so I guess that proves fathers and sons don't compare their penises. He felt awful about going on like that w/ his father, and THEN decided maybe I had valid points after all- Jeez... I just wish our sons didn't have to go through this b/c of his issues.
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Typical Hospital Pressure
"It seems that a few hours after my friend Deb's delivery and while she was still sedated a nurse came into her room and told her that she had forgotten to sign a consent from regarding her baby. She took the paper and fortunately was able to read and understand it before she signed it. It was a consent form for circumcision. She informed the nurse that she had not forgotten to sign it. She and her husband had refused to sign it because they did not want the surgery performed on their son. The nurse then asked, "Don't you want your baby to be normal?" Deb said she told the nurse, "Yes, we want our baby to be normal, that is why we do not want his healthy normal body violated and I would suggest that you do some reading and research on what is and what is not normal in the care of an infant male." Can you imagine, just how close this came to violating their wishes. It makes me wonder how often this might be a standard rather than an exception".
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"Time does not heal all wounds."
"I am the father of a circumcised son, unfortunately he is one of those little boys in which "no reliable statistics" are known, he suffered complications from surgery. A hospital-born infection entered at the circumcision site, the result was seizures and profound brain damage. I'll watch my son go to be a man in a wheelchair, he does not speak, he does not see. Dr. O failed to address the real benefit of circumcision; it's parked in the circumciser's driveway. Today circumcisers have the audacity to charge $150 for a fifteen minute procedure, one hour's work will make monthly payments on their BMW. Medical insurance groups are wisely dropping the procedure from their health plans. The mutilations will stop when we TAKE THE PROFIT OUT OF CIRCUMCISION.
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Hospital Tactics in the 1980s
"When our son was born the nurse came into the room to get him. I asked what she was going to do. She replied that the doctor is going to circumcise him before we take him home. I told her that my wife and I had not been consulted about that and that we did not agree to have the baby circumcised. I told her that we are not of that religious belief and that we do not want the boy circumcised. In spite of my protest, she continued to move toward the door with the baby. Seeing that she was not paying attention to what I was saying, I moved to block her from exiting through the door. She told me it was doctor's orders and that the doctor was waiting. I told her very firmly, "NO". She left the baby and walked off much disturbed. After a short time the doctor contacted me. He told me that it was hospital policy to circumcise all male babies before they left for home. I politely told him that this is one baby that they are not going to circumcise. I further told him to prepare the mother and the baby to go home at once. He then proceeded to tell me about all the problems that can occur if circumcision is not performed. It was a very long list of terrible things. He was surprised when I told him that I had never been circumcised and that I have not experienced any of those or any other problems. Again, I told him to have the nurse prepare the mother and the baby to leave immediately or I am taking them just as they are. I was told that I would not be allowed to take the baby home without circumcision I stood my ground, "Get them ready to go!" He then said that the baby must stay in the hospital until the bill is paid. Where upon I took my cheque book from my pocket and asked how much the bill was. I had to go down to the business office to pay the bill. On the bill was a charge for circumcision I told them that the boy was not circumcised and that they should deduct the fee for that. After some argument they finally took the fee for circumcision off.
We never saw the doctor again. However, we did receive calls from his office stating that they had made arrangements for us to take the baby to a pediatrician. we told them WE would decide what to do, not them."- Dr. C.P.
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"Surprise, we cut off part of your penis too!"
I personally had my perfectly normal, functional, significant and beautiful foreskin amputated at age 9 years, during a "routine" tonsillectomy was not forewarned that my penis would be involved in the surgery. I did know, and consent to the tonsillectomy, and it was supposed to limit my severe and painful earaches. It did not limit my earaches. I awoke in the hospital with a huge bloody dressing to my penis. I was horrified, humiliated, and felt anger, sorrow and deep personal loss. I now feel that I was raped, or at least sexually abused. I was unable to wear underwear for the whole summer. Any cloth or touch to the tender glans was painfully sensitive. I was left with ugly skin tags, skin bridges and emotional scars which remain with me nearly 30 years later. To this day I am apprehensive if anyone sees, touches, or becomes intimate with my penis. I have had a lifetime of inability to form a sexual relationship. --D.S. Hawaii
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"I used to assist in circumcising babies"
I am a former labor and delivery nurse for a major hospital. When I first started there, I assisted in infant male circumcisions. I hated it from the first but it was a part of my job, and I had children to feed.
The first circumcision I assisted in is burned in my memory forever. The screams of that poor child will never leave me. The doctor assured me that the baby felt no pain, that he wouldn't remember it, and that he was only mad because he was restrained. In order to make it easier on myself, I chose to believe that.
We were trained to never tell the parents the truth. We were always to tell them that the child slept through it, or he barely noticed, or he only cried for a minute. We would keep babies after the circumcision until they calmed down, so their parents wouldn't know how bad it was. A lot of babies did just pass out. The pain must have been completely unbearable. Very few OB's use any kind of anesthesia, believing that it's more trouble than it's worth. Only one doctor that I worked with ever used any anesthesia, and it was a lidocaine injection. Lidocaine injections hurt tremendously anyway, and the children would shriek in pain and terror as they were given the shot. I often wondered if it hurt more than the surgery would have. After that, the babies would still shake and scream through the entire surgery. Then I'd quiet them down and take them back to their parents and tell them that he slept through the whole thing and barely noticed it. Even if we didn't use anesthesia we were always supposed to tell the parents that we used adequate pain relief, which almost always amounted to a pacifier. That is what most OB's consider adequate pain relief and most likely what every child received, even if your OB told you different.
After 6 months I refused to do the circumcisions anymore, and I was willing to lose my job over it. I didn't lose my job, and I continued for three more years. But every time one of those babies was cut open it would rip at my soul. I could hear them screaming in the other room. The screams that came from the circumcision room were screams of utter agony, like dying animals. I used to pray that the babies would just pass out so their pain would be over. The lucky ones did.
I left L&D after almost four years, having assisted in nearly 100 circumcisions and been witness to hundreds more. I will be haunted by those children forever. All the babies whose bodies I helped destroy follow me everywhere I go, I can't get away from them. I now work for a pediatrician that does not perform circumcisions, but whenever I see a little boy with a circumcision scar, I can hear those screams again.
I have 2 daughters, and 2 sons. None of them are circumcised. I am lucky that my sons did not come until after my days on the L&D ward, and they were not subjected to the horrors that I participated in.
My punishment lies with realizing the horrible things I helped make happen, and living with that guilt every day. Anyone who tells you that the baby didn't notice, or slept through it, is lying. I know for a fact that no matter how well anesthetized a child is, he will be in pain. Even the children who received the blocks still screamed and thrashed in pain and fear the whole time, until they gave up fighting. Every baby boy hurts from this. The mother who says her child was looking around oblivious is either lying or is in such denial that she can't accept what she did to her child. I've been in that room hundreds of times. I know that there was never a single baby that did not notice. There wasn't a single one that didn't shake or scream. Your child was being tortured, too. Maybe you didn't know going into it, maybe you did. But don't discount his pain to make yourself feel better.
I hate myself for doing nothing to stop it, for helping it happen. I tried to tell myself that at least I could be there and hold his hand or try to comfort him, but there is no comforting a baby during that. I was just another one of his abusers, even if I tried to pretend otherwise. I helped strap down those perfect little boys and mutilate their bodies, and then lied to their mothers about how they didn't feel a thing. Instead of telling their parents the truth, which might have helped other children, I did what I was told.
Circumcision is wrong. It's as wrong as wrong can be. People who have their children circumcised are abusing them, and the doctors who perform them are doing it solely for money. A circumcision is easy surgery for the doctor and quick money. And those babies pay the price.
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The following personal stories have been culled from the Mothering dot com Circumcision Forum which is an excellent place for emotional support and the Genital Integrity Blog which offers those who have had parts of their body amputated without their consent the opportunity to be heard.
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DS was born 11 days ago, and he will remain intact! We didn't find out gender ahead of time, and when I first mentioned it to DH, he indicated that we'd circ. I really didn't have a strong feeling about it, but did discuss the what-ifs with my doctor (who also is baby's doc). Although he does perform circs when parents request it, he told us that there is no medical reason to circumcise and that he would recommend against it unless there was a very strong reason that we had to do it.
After DS was born, DH and I had another conversation, and it turned out that he'd rethought his position and didn't see any reason to circumcise unless it was medically beneficial!
As far as I know, this is the first little boy in our extended family who will be intact, so I feel like we're entering new ground. But I'm thrilled that my little boy can go through life as God made him, and not have to recover from surgery at such a young age.
A huge thanks to all the posters here who helped me make a more informed decision!!
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Funny story from my 19 month old ds2 today. We were taking a shower like we do together pretty much everyday. I noticed the tip of his foreskin was a little red, and he had a piece of fuzz stuck to it so I was going to wipe the fuzz off and look at the tip to see if it was a problem or just a bit irritated from his concentrated morning pee in the overnight diaper situation. About the time I touch him he turns away from me quickly and says "MINE". My mouth just about hit the floor. He has been so in love with the word mine lately, but he has never used it like that. Well I thought I guess now is a good time to do some groundwork about private parts and all, but since he is only 19 months old I didn't know what he could understand so I kept it simple I just said "You are right honey, that is yours. I'm sorry I should have told you what I was doing first. I was just going to help you wash it, but it is yours so you can wash it yourself." And sure enough he took one of the little cups he plays with in the shower, filled it with water and washed down the outside of his penis. Then gave me a big grin and said "MINE" again.
He rinsed it a couple of times to make sure it was good and clean and we got out of the shower. I was just laughing to myself thinking well that blows the "a boy won't take care of it" argument right out of the water. I mean if a 19month old can clean himself surely an older child can right? I'm sure he can't be that hygienically advanced. I'm just wondering if I handled the private parts angle well enough. And suggestions on that for me? Any way I thought you all might get a kick out of the story.
Again, thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
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I thought I would just defer to him
My newborn is intact, thanks in part to this discussion board! I want to thank everyone who has posted on this particular discussion board. When I found out I was pregnant with a boy, I was very upset about having to decide whether to circ or not. My husband is circ'd and I originally thought I would just defer to him. However, how could I hurt such a beautiful new creation as my son? I found lots of information on this discussion board which convinced me NOT to circ. And my husband was easily brought to the no circ camp.
I also want to share that I almost circ'd him at the hospital when the doctor asked if we wanted a circumcision. For some crazy reason I said yes , but then started to cry. The doctor said she could see I was in conflict and spent some time discussing it with me without putting pressure on me to go either way. (My husband was not there at the time). She ultimately said she would not circ unless both parents were in agreement and that we as parents needed to discuss it more before making a decision. I am eternally grateful to her as well because neither my husband nor I wanted him circ'd after we thought about it. I guess I was feeling pressure from family and feeling vulnerable and alone in the recovery room at the hospital.
My precious boy is now 2 weeks old and I am so glad he is intact. He is the first on both sides of the family and amongst our group of friends. So while people may not understand our decision, at least I know from this discussion board that there are others out there who are like us.
[Response by Yulia: Congrats on you beautiful whole boy!!!!! This is very important that you and your dh read this -- Warning for Parents of Whole Sons]
Thanks everyone for your support and well wishes. I am feeling very happy that my son is intact. I know I made the right decision. And thanks Yulia_R for the link about forcible retraction. I'll be sure to be extra vigilant.
As it turns out, the pediatrician who spent time talking with me in the hospital has sons who are intact. I've written her a thankyou note, and have switched to her as our pediatrician. The nurses in the hospital were also glad we decided against circumcision. One confided she thought it was a horrendous thing to do to a newborn and doesn't understand why its so prolific.
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We Argued Until He Saw What It Was
Hi all,
never had a chance to post much here but I have lurked thru-out my pg. During my pg, dh and I would get into heated debates re circ and always left me so angry because I cry when I get stressed out and can't ever win. When, last March we found out we were expecting our first son. We continued to argue over circ and I just gave up and said "whatever".
On June 15th, 2007 we welcomed our little boy to the world. We had a beautiful birth at home, in the water, unassisted. He weighed 10 lbs, 1.5 oz and was 21 inches in length. My mw came moments after the birth to check on us. Everything was as perfect as my LO. My dh insisted that I make the circ appt for a week later so I did. I was just to exhausted to argue. A few days later though, the videos of baby boys wailing in pain reminded me of why I felt so strongly against this act. So I thought to myself... Why don't I make dh watch this???? He has a penis... He should feel this pain.... So, off to MDC I went to play the video for him. He agreed to watch it. I saw hime cringe at the procedure and stare at his peacefully nursing son. He got off the couch and asked my if "that" was legal. I said what? "That" is a circ... What do you mean? He then said, "they don't use anesthesia?" Bottom line was that he feels that being in the 21st century in America, there should be no reason for anyone (even an adult) to experience such pain.
Now to the present. I have a beautiful son who is intact. He was more convinced that everything would be fine after reading some of the posts here. He especially got the most from the "How to care" thread. You all are awesome and I thank you a miilion times over!!!! My il's are a bit shocked but I just remind them that his penis belongs to him so lay off!!!! My family on the other hand is totally for no circing. My Dad made a point of calling us everyday to check to see if our son was still intact!!! . My dh co-workers have sons and the majority of them are intact. My circle of friends son's are all intact.
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Friend decided not to circ in 11th hour!
My friend had a boy in late February that she didn't want circ'd...she finally gave in to her husband's - 'he has to look like me' wish and told me it was going to be done. The last I heard was the morning of the circ and it was to be done...I have been distraught for the little boy and so angry at both of them....anyway - she called a few days ago to get some advice on delaying vaxes...and I really wanted to help her and have been trying to get over the whole incident..so at the end of the conversation she says; "Oh, I didn't tell you. He isn't circumcised." She said her dh went to fetch some clothes for the baby while they were still in the hospital and while he was gone the nurses brought in the circ consent form - which she said was horrifying. She called her dh and told him he needed to come back to be with the baby during the procedure, and she absolutely wouldn't sign the consent until he read it and gave the okay. Before he even got back to the hospital - he called her back and said, "Tell the drs we aren't doing it." And on top of it, when they told the dr they had changed their minds, she said, "there's really no reason to do it at all. that's fine with me." later - a nurse practitioner came in and told them that only about 50% of parents were doing it at all anymore. No one at the hospital batted an eye - and really reinforced for her dh that there is no good reason for this! Guess he met his son and realized he was perfect. I don't even mind that I grieved for this baby for weeks..I'm just so ecstatic this little guy has his foreskin!
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I was in a similar situation; I shut down my maternal instincts and let my first be circ'ed, b/c I didn't know any better, and I immediately felt horrible about it. When I got pregnant with my second, I knew I did not want to circumcise him, but my husband was adamant that we do it. Long story short: I did not allow it; hubby did not challenge me after the birth (though we had had some pretty ugly fights about it before the birth!), and now, he is fine with it and even admitted one time that he knows it causes decrease in sexual sensation and that the only reason he ever wanted it in the first place was so he would "be like me."
The most important thing for you to do is to educate yourself thoroughly on circumcision--the lack of need for it, the risks, the details of the procedure, etc. Watch the video. Follow the links in the stickies. You need to have more on your side than just emotions, because there are a lot of commonly accepted myths out there that people use to rationalize circumcision, and you need to be prepared for that.
Next, I would not keep trying to argue about it. It is not good for you while you're pregnant. And the more you bring it up, the more defensive your DH will get. Few circ'ed men want to be backed into a corner where they are expected to admit that they are missing something important and that they were essentially sexually abused. I let it drop about 6 months into my pregnancy and didn't bring it up again. I also didn't talk about it much with DH after the birth. I think, for him, he was almost relieved to have me stand my ground without nagging him to agree with me--that way, he didn't have to (in his mind) acknowledge that his parents may have made a mistake with him.
Also, when you do have to discuss it, stay away from the "Intact guys have better sex" argument. That is so NOT what a circumcised man wants to hear!!!! Focus on the risks, the pain, the lack of medical necessity, the interruption of bonding and breastfeeding, the "His body, His choice" angle, and the fact that you will feel as violated and abused as your child will.
Bottom line is, Your husband cannot really demand it. He does not have the right to demand parts of your child's genitals. You will be the one who is asked to sign the consent form, and you do not have to sign.
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5 yo ds just asked me if he had a foreskin
i was reading another thread on TAO and ds2 walked into the kitchen. he has been reading for quite some time now (he is 5y and 1mo), so he happened to read the following siggy: "think before you cut, a foreskin is there for a reason"
he struggled a bit with "foreskin", but pretty much sounded it out. obvious next question...what is a foreskin? i told him it the skin that covers over the head of a boys penis, to protect the head.
he got a weird look on his face (realizing he probably didnt have this) and then came the dreaded question. ds1 is 12 1/2 and hasnt figured out yet that he is cut...i thought i had some more time before having to face up to this. ds2 is super precocious, so i guess it doesnt really surprise me that he got to this point already.
i took a deep breath and said "no, honey, you dont have a foreskin, but you did when you were born"
then i burst into tears. what a mess.
he asked me what happened to it, did someone cut it off? and i said yes, i asked the dr to do it. i told him i was very sorry, and that i thought it had to be done so a boy would be healthier. (this is actually a lie. it was true w/ds1, when i was 17 yo myself. by the time i got pg w/ds2, i knew the facts. i cut him b/c my dh had left me and we were having big disagreements about everything related to the child. i knew i wasnt going to do any vaxes, and i knew that ebf meant i wasnt handing the db over for stbx to take out for the day, so it seemed like if i gave in on circ, i could use it to bargain for everything else. a yr later, out of the blue, xh asked me how someone as fruity (his word for crunchy) as me could circ. turns out he would have been cool w/leaving ds intact. i could have killed him barehanded at that moment.)
so i lied to ds about why i circed. i thought we were done, but i could see the gears turning...i knew what was coming.
"did it hurt mommy?"
i swear i cried so hard i could barely breathe.
i told him i made the dr use a medicine so it wouldnt hurt, but i think it might have just a bit. he asked me what the skin looked like, but i was wary of searching the net for a pic, so i asked him if he felt okay pulling down his pants a bit. he did, and i pointed to the loose skin and asked him to pull it over the head a bit and then showed him my finger and said it sort of looked like that. we looked at the scar (ds is super fair skinned, he has the same scar as his dad, plus a tiny skin bridge).
i told his again that i was sorry, and that if i ever had another baby boy, i would NOT do it again. and he said "if you tried mommy, i would put my hand over his privates and yell STOP!"
i asked him if he grew up and got married and his wife had a boy, would he take away the foreskin from his son. he told me "no way! that would be dumb to do to a baby!"
i feel so sick. i was there for the circ. my ds1 was 7.5 at the time, and he was so upset to hear his baby brother crying in the next room. i feel so disgusted with myself. how can i be the kind of mom who nurses and cosleeps and is so attached to her babies. i dont beat my kids, i try to speak to them with the same respect i want back...and yet, i am the person who caused the most physical pain either one has ever felt.
i feel like throwing up right now.
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"My Husband Curled in the Fetal Position...crying"
I had a very complicated and dangerous pregnancy, I had Placenta Previa and was on bedrest. I told my husband that we would not circumcise our baby- my #1 reason was because I had lived in Europe and I knew that the foreskin was an important part of male sexual anatomy... and respecting it in that way- I did not think this was the sort of decision that parents should even be allowed to make... you don't cut another person's penis... period.
But the problem was, my husband who was circumcised could not IMAGINE that a foreskin was a part of a penis, because he didn't have a foreskin... and his penis was FINE... not DAMAGED! He could not get over that leap between him being sexually fine and another man being fine with even more sexual anatomy than he had. He was in a state of panic between common sense and self defense. Our fights were fierce- I was astounded at his reaction- he did not seem like himself- it was like he was a robot who was programmed with a execute circumcision command... and my putting an unplanned obstacle in that path made the whole system go berzerk.
The most upsetting scene of the whole time was my husband curled in a fetal position on the couch with a pillow crammed over his crotch crying... and still demanding that we had to do this. For me it was like watching regression therapy- I was seeing my husband relive the pain of his own circumcision... his outward body clenched in such a self defensive curl- emotionally he was begging to have a solution to this pain... and the solution that he thought he had found was to circumcise the baby... to make circumcision right. It was the only way he could convince himself that circumcision is a reasonable thing to do to babies...to men.
I guess the real him won out... he took the time to do some research in private (where he did not need to feel embarrassed to learn or cry or whatever) and he came to realize that circumcision is not good for babies, and that we would NOT be circumcising our baby. The turnaround was fast- and a good thing too- because when the baby came 5 weeks early in a torrent of blood with a 18 inch blizzard shutting down the interstate- our family needed unity and love and trust. I was still KO from the emergency c section when the Dr asked my Husband when we would tell him the BAD news about the circumcision- my husband was the one who said WE AREN'T
The Dr was happily surprised. "Where are you FROM?" he asked... assuming that no one from here (Cincinnati area) would not habitually circumcise their baby.
It wasn't till years later that the irony of that comment became more clear... my husband talked to his parents about his circumcision, to tell them about how circumcision had effected him and that he was now restoring his foreskin non-surgically to try to un-do some of that damage... What his parents told him was a real shock. He was circumcised without any parental consent- he was in the nursery and the circumciser cut the baby without even asking. He made the boy NOT match his father... every man in the family was intact- but that Dr took the intact baby and cut him without asking a single member of the family- all would have said no if they had been asked. No one told this boy the truth, no one told him that his circumcision was not something chosen for him- that it was a horrible sign of a lapse in security... dad out of town and mom on KO drugs from a c section... and a hospital with a universal circumcision program...
NO wonder all the dads in Cincinnati are insisting their sons be circumcised... they were all circumcised whether their parents wanted it or not. The hospital system of a few decades ago was erasing our common knowledge of human anatomy and sexuality. Was distorting our idea of normal. When surgically modified is the presumed given. It's not given... it's taken.
It took me, a transplant from somewhere else, to carry in the seeds of doubt about the rightness of what was happening. That doctor knew that something was up when that dad said no... he knew he had been exposed to some outside thought- because the program to erase male knowledge of their own anatomy here is Cincinnati had been so "successful"
I hope that this father gets the compassion and support that he needs and I hope that he has the courage to bravely uncover the history of his own circumcision and to question his motives in doing this to his son. It is very hard work. I recommend the history book by David Gollaher- he can get it on Amazon.
I also hope that this mother has the courage to protect her child. This is not something that needs to have an agreement. If either parent wants to protect the child from the cutting motivation of the other parent- they have full power to protect the child. The benefit of the doubt will always lie with the child and the rightness of his body. The onus is upon the person who would cut him, to prove it must be done. Even in court, this argument has never been made- circumcisers are powerless if the child has an advocate. Circumcision only happens in the absence of protection. The is no need to make a case for NOT circumcising, the child is born that way- he got the genetic program for his penis from his father, his foreskin comes from his father... it is the GIVEN.
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Doctors trained in Female Anatomy, cutting male anatomy?!
I so regret having my first son circumcised. I was young. I was stupid. I will never be responsible for having that done to another child ever again.
When I was pregnant, I found and loved Dr Sear's The Baby Book. I read what he said about circumcisions. But when the pediatrician I had picked out said she recommended it to all her parents, I figured what did I know....
So I let some MORON doctor, who couldn't even be responsible for a decent delivery, cut my poor newborn baby. Why on earth should a doctor who went to school and studied FEMALE ANATOMY and works with FEMALES all day long be in charge of surgery on a 2 day old MALE baby?
Anyhow--I cried when I saw what they did to him. I cried when I changed his diapers and he cried when the diapers touched him. I cried when the ring around his poor penis got all yellow and gunky. I cried when he cried as the pediatrician 'inspected' him for infection.
Why on earth do we insist on having elective SURGERY on our newborns? Why do we live in a society that presents this as a procedure, not an invasive surgery?
When i was pregnant with ds2, dh was concerned about him not 'matching' and what would I say to ds1 about it.... I looked ds1 in the eyes and told him that I am sorry. That I didn't know better. That I did what I thought was best--and yet still need to say I'm sorry, because what I thought was best just wasn't good enough. I should have researched. I should have asked. I should have done something other than blindly following.
ds2 is intact and we haven't regretted it for a second. Amazing, when you think of all the years of regret I've had and years of regret yet to come over having ds1 circ'd.
Do yourself a favor. Hold your baby in your arms and don't let go. Not for anything. Look your baby over from head to toe and realize that he is perfect just the way he is.
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"That's just the way we do things" -- One Man's Story
Like most Americans, I had no clue what circumcision was, exactly. As a child, I was told that it was simply something that boys had done. Instinctually, I knew it was wrong since it made no sense that every single male would be born defective. While at college in the late 1990s, I was browsing the web and came upon the topic. It was a crudely drawn diagram of normal male anatomy and the subsequent removal of the foreskin. It struck me as very creepy and primitive.
A few years later, I got married and soon was expecting my first child; a boy. Prior to finding out the gender of our child, I revisited the circumcision topic. I read all of the alarmist literature on the subject; doctors and parents talking about how circumcision prevents UTIs, penile cancer, cervical cancer, and all sorts of random infections. It struck me as fearmongering. I found out that no organization in the world recommends routine circumcision and haven’t in a long time, with the single exception of when circumcision advocate Edgar Schoen led the AAP circumcision task force. I found out that infant circumcision for is almost unheard of in most of the world and is seen as a religious ritual, not a medical procedure.
Later, I learned that my initial impression of fearmongering was correct. Girls get more UTIs than any boys and are treated effectively with antibiotics. Penile cancer is more rare than male breast cancer. Denmark has lower rates of penile cancer than the United States despite not circumcising babies. Cervical cancer is caused by HPV. The American Cancer Society doesn’t recommend circumcision to prevent any cancer. And most random penile infections are caused by improper care and can be prevented with correct care and treated with antibiotics or antifungals.
Worse, most of this was well known back before I was born. My father’s pediatric book, circa 1975, even said that circumcision was unnecessary and risky.
My son was born and, of course, the most common question asked by family wasn’t (to my wife) “How are you feeling?” or “How is your baby?” It was “So when are you going to have him circumcised?” as if making him a member of the American snipped dick club was the most important thing.
By this time my parents were well aware that I think that routine infant circumcision is a horrible way to start out life. At one point I asked my mother why she would do something like that to me. Her response was, “That’s just the way we do things.” No emotion. No apology. Just a curt response. Later, she told me that their doctor recommended it. Of course he did. He gets paid for it! The doctor excuse might have flown if my parents weren’t in the medical field, but they are. My father is a doctor. My mother is a nurse. In the 1970s, it was difficult for a non-medical person to have access to medical information, but they did have access. In 1979, the AAP did not recommend circumcision. They should have shown less blind trust and done their own research.
I hate being circumcised.
Again, for all you naysayers who think that all men, without reservation, love having a snipped dick:
I’m a man and I hate being circumcised.
I know I have problems due to being circumcised. They became even more apparent when I started restoring my foreskin. I have a traditional 1970s circumcision. In other words, the doctor shoved as much as he could plus 10% in his Gomco clamp and cut it all. Prior to restoring, my erect skin was so tight it was shiny and uncomfortable. Hair was pulled up from my scrotum onto my shaft. My glans, after years of exposure, barely had any feeling at all. The only part of my penis that actually had remotely intense was the small area on the underside of my glans where my frenulum was. Honestly, it was almost like having a dildo that could pee between my legs.
I have been restoring for about two years now. Its been a huge improvement. I don’t have tight, hairy erections anymore, since I have enough skin to accomodate my natural size. Since my restoration device covers my glans, I have significantly more sensation. I can actually feel oral sex now. The extra skin restored part of the “gliding action” (google it) which makes for new and very pleasant sensations during sex for both my wife and I. Still, there are a lot of parts that restoration can’t fix, that are just gone. Baring some huge scientific advance, I doubt I’ll ever know what sex should feel like.
Well, at least I protected my son.
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Tight Circumcision and Intimacy
I've only been with ONE person. Someone with a tight circ. I thought it was normal sex. What did I have to compare with? At that time, the other women I knew, even if they'd been with multiple people they were all circ'd. So, they didn't know any better either.
I do know a couple of women who had an encounter with an intact man as well as circ'd. Those women seemed to think that the guy was particularly talentend and experienced. They never seem to make the connection. One of them was with a Romanian athlete. Anyhow, she STILL talks about those months with amazement, a glow in her eyes (she's now married to a cut american engineer with two kids, two cut little boys ). The best sex she has ever had in her life. It wasn't until after I suggested it may have something to do with the circ status that the wheels started turning.
The first encounter I had with a woman who outwardly professed the difference was with my doula. She was engaged to an intact man. She called him "super sexual", and said that the simplest touch would evoke the deepest pleasure. He was easy to please and their sex life was amazing. She was very experienced sexually (unlike myself) and told me that from her multiple experiences that she *knew* the difference first hand.
Anyhow, for all those years after I was married I thought what I was feeling was normal. That it was normal for a man to need such rough stimulation, that to pound away like that was normal. Sure, it hurt, and left me sore, but I thought that was my problem...KWIM? We had to buy extra lube, and that helped somewhat.
DH too thought that it was normal to have a mixture of pain/pleasure during masturbation/sex as did I. Even though things would feel "good" there were also many negative/painful sensations as well. And, he couldn't O unless there was rough pounding stimulation.
The first so many years after we were married, I thought there was something "off" but tried my best to just put it in the back of my mind. Didn't want to deal with it...especially as I was going to be having sex with this person the REST of my life. I figured I'd better tolerate/get used to it. As I got older, and pregnant, the rough stuff became even MORE disturbing to me. So, I started learning more and the circ stuff explained it!
I learned about this while reading about circ, then after having a bleeding episode while pregnant (due to rough sex) I started to just get fed up with it. I resented that I had to keep reminding him to slow down, tell him that it was hurting, and I would get so overwhelmed during intercourse I was feeling like I was being raped (seriously felt disconnect) and I would cry afterwards. Here I was, pregnant, and worried that he was going to cause me to have a miscarriage. I am not kidding .
Learning all the information (I had bought the book in conjunction with a DOC book on amazon), it made me realize I was not alone. That I shouldn't have to suffer these negatives and not speak out. That what I had been experiencing wasn't really "normal", well, it was normal for a typically circumcised penis here in the US, but it wasn't normal human intercourse.
Of course, DH was so upset at first, honestly he told me that I should just go start a relationship on the side with an intact man (I kid you not). Though, I was very reassuring that I did not want that, I just wanted him to be back to what he was meant to be so we could have the intimacy we were meant to. I told him..."if someone told you that you could have better sex and intimacy your whole life by doing this, wouldn't you at least CONSIDER it?"
So, we started the process of restoration. VERY slowly. It's already made a remarkable difference. DH went into it, for me , not expecting anything. It's been pleasantly surprising for both of us. Whole new sensations exist for him that didn't before. There have also been many benefits for me as well.
He's definitely not as intactivist as I am, though he will speak out if asked. Not about the restoration, but he is very proud that our son is whole!
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Day I withdrew from Nursing School
I want to share with all of you an event that drew me into intactivism
Back in 1996, I began an OB/GYN hospital clinical as a student nurse. One day, I was enlisted to attend a ‘routine circumcision.’ I did not realize how much that event would shatter the very foundation of a career choice made in ignorance. I appeared in the doorway of the circ room and saw the little newborn boy to whom I was ‘assigned’ for the day. Twenty years-old, and not having kids of my own, I did not anticipate the lurching sensation that gripped my heart. Laying strapped down to a table—so small and new, pure and innocent, trusting, all alone, and defenseless—I walked toward the baby and wanted to grab him off the table and shelter him, to tell him that nobody would hurt him.
In walked the doctor. Loud, obnoxious, joking with his assistant, as if he was about to perform a 10 minute oil change. Not once did he talk to this little baby. Rather, he reached for his cold metal instruments and then reached out for his object of mutilation, this sweet newborn’s perfect unharmed body. As I recall the screams of pain and terro, his small lungs barely able to keep up with the cries, I turned in horror as I saw the doctor forcefully pull his foreskin around a metal object. Then came the knife, cut, cut, cut.
I stood next to the baby and said, “You’re almost done sweety. Almost done.”
Then came the words as that son-of-a-bitch said while he dangled the foreskin in midair, “Anybody care to go fishing?”
My tongue lodged in my throat. I felt like I was about to vomit. I restrained myself. My duty was to then take the infant back to the nursery for ‘observation.’ Here is where I realized I couldn’t do it. I could not be a part of such a cold, sterile, out-of-touch medical model. Rather than observing, I cradled the infant. I held him and whispered comforting words as if he were my own. I’ll never forget those new little eyes watch me as if in a haze. He knew I cared about him. He knew he was safe in my arms. He knew that I was going to take him to his mommy, but deep in his little heart, at some level, I know he wondered where his mommy was while he lay there mutilated in what was supposed to be a safe and welcoming environment.
I made a note in the chart and then caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror. My chest and face had broken out in purple splotches. My next thoughts? I can’t do this. I refuse to do this. This is NOT for me. I took the baby to his mother, who was complaining about ’some pain’ she was experiencing. I never addressed her pain because I left to go to my locker. I grabbed my belongings and hoped that my rejection of this ‘medical system’ could serve as some type of redemption for the violation of that newborn that I cradled in my arms that day. The next day, I withdrew from nursing school and never looked back.
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Many years ago, I witnessed an infant circumcision in person at the invitation of a mutilator. He invited me to attend, to prove to me that there is nothing wrong with mutilating babies. He also decided and told me that he would not do a complete circumcision, just a little dorsal slit, to minimize trauma, damage, injury, and blood loss. “I will cut on the center line. There are no blood vessels there.” (Right.)
I decided to go. White mutilator, black baby, southern USA, 1972 or so. With the first probe under the foreskin the baby screams a blood curdling scream and keeps screaming. With the crushing of the center line of the top of the foreskin with the hemostat the baby’s screaming and thrashing ratchet WAY up (he was restrained by tie-downs, put in place in preparation for this human hurricane they already knew from long experience was coming) and when the clamp comes off and the dorsal cut is made the baby begins to vomit—projectile vomiting—the most violent vomiting I have ever witnessed from any human being. Blood from the baby’s penis spurts everywhere. The vomiting interrupts the screaming and the screaming interrupts the vomiting. The mutilator takes out his sewing kit and starts sewing. With every puncture of the needle a new blood-curdling scream comes rushing out, with every pulling of the thread through the foreskin the baby turns bluer and screams louder and harder and finally, when I think the police are going to arrive, or the baby is going to die, or God is going to strike us all dead on the spot—the baby goes totally silent and completely limp. He passes out, knocked cold by the trauma of the mutilating. [Ed. Some babies dissociate and this may be what Mr. Lewis observed] The mutilator can now work in peace.
He finishes his sewing, cleans up, and we head for the stairs. On the staircase he looks at me and starts to talk. I thought he was going to tell me how he had never seen anything like that in his life, that babies never respond like that, or something at least. Instead, what he revealed with his off-hand question was that this was a normal operation, nothing out of the ordinary here. “Did you have any objection to that?” he asked.
I was momentarily speechless. What I wanted to do in answer to the mutilator’s insane question was kick him in his groin as hard as I could and then ask him, “Did YOU have any objection to THAT?” I supposed he would have objected to my reaction, so I didn’t do it. Also I didn’t want to go to jail; I wanted him to go to jail. So I responded calmly, “I think the baby objected to it.”
I have since learned from a reformed circumciser, who did scores of circumcisions, that he didn’t hear the babies he circumcised screaming. He was so intent on doing his work “correctly” that he literally, as hard as it is to believe, did not hear the screaming. Then, one day—why, he didn’t know—he heard it. He heard the baby and knew what the screaming meant. He was injuring the baby, deeply. He’s never done another one.
The mystery of how people can do this to babies and allow it to be done and think it normal gets deeper for me every day.
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As a medical student at America’s oldest hospital, Pennsylvania Hospital, I was happy to be on the obstetrics rotation. While still in college, I had heard an obstetrician speak enthusiastically about his optimistic specialty. So now I was enjoying helping to bring babies into the world. While professors provided good background information in formal lectures, my real teachers were residents only a few years older than I was. They took turns talking me through normal deliveries.
Almost every doctor can recall the joy of delivering a healthy normal infant. This joy was shattered one day when one of the residents said, “There are some circumcisions that need to be done, go and do them.” At the time I guess I knew what a circumcision was, but that was about it. I had certainly learned nothing about the subject in medical school. Obediently, I proceeded to the newborn nursery, where another medical student was already waiting. I felt nervous, and he looked quite nervous, too. Strapped to a board on the long counter in front of each of us was a bawling male infant. Beside the infant was a surgical tray filled with instruments. Imagine our consternation when we found there was no one to tell us what to do. Obediently, we put on surgical gowns, then surgical gloves. Then we began to try to figure out how to use what I later learned was a Gomco Clamp.
As far as I know, I made a fairly neat job of it. But my abiding memory of that day is of my colleague. He was one of the more brilliant members of our class, and was planning to become a radiologist. As for surgery, forget it. He was all thumbs. I still remember him, standing beside me, fumbling with the complicated instruments, proceeding to use them on the helpless penis before him, all the while just shaking his head!
I look back on the only time I have ever performed any circumcisions with regret and resentment. I resent having had no opportunity to study circumcision in medical school or to consider whether I thought it a treatment for anything. I resent the resident commanding me to do it, while offering no further guidance or help. In fact, I was treated just as the medical profession treats innocent new parents today. Doctors tell them a circumcision needs to be done. Before the new parent has time to consider, it is all over. Then it is too late to say no, and everyone has to live with the consequences. I was a medical student, so a lot of the responsibility was mine. I clearly violated, all in one instant, the Golden Rule (I certainly would not have wanted that done to me), the major tenet of medical practice, First, Do No Harm, and all seven principles of the American Medical Association’s Code of Ethics. Mind you, I did not realize it then, just as unwary medical students do not realize it today. Now I know there are no valid medical indications for routine neonatal circumcision. I realize much harm can be done, evidenced by the thousands of men who have written their testimony and who have told me personally of the harm done to them. Now I also realize that I violated my patient’s basic human right to enjoy his entire body intact, while all he could do was scream his tiny head off. That was some years ago, but it might just as well have been last year.
The United States is the only country in the world that, for no religious reason, severs part of the penis from the majority of its newborn males. I speak out in the hope that many parents and doctors will read this before getting swept into the cultural madness of routine neonatal circumcision. What should one do if called upon to consent to or to perform circumcisions? Just say NO! In so doing, you will be taking the only ethical position there is on this issue.
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Try to imagine you are a healthy, natural boy of age 8 years. Life is good and your parents are loving. True, you suffer from too many ear infections, but no other health problems at all. During the summer of the year of your 8th year, you are told you will have a tonsilectomy to reduce the number of painful ear infections that you suffer. It’s not a great thought, but the ear infections are numerous and painful.
Imagine now that you awaken from the anesthesia and find that besides a sore throat, your most personal and private body parts are covered with a huge bloody gauze bandage. Try to imagine the horror and confusion. At age 8 you are unable to formulate words to express your feelings of abuse, assault, and fear you experience.
Yes, that is the beginning of my story. During the rest of the summer, I was unable to wear underwear because of the pain and irritation to my suddenly exposed inner body part. To the dismay of my parents, everywhere I went I held my pants away from my body to not touch the sensitive, previously protected end of my penis. My most private and personal body part was now a swollen, purulent, oozing, painful mess. I was horrified, humiliated and disgusted. Even my parents, who thought they were doing the right thing, were saddened and sorry for what had been inflicted upon me.
As I grew older, I was embarrassed by the scar on my genitals. I made certain they were always well hidden from view. At my school, we had to have nude showers after gym classes—my hands never allowed any other boys to see how mutilated I had become.
Instead of ‘getting over it’, as I advanced into adulthood, the embarrassment stayed with me, and I was unable to be sexual with anyone because of the shame of my appearance. It was many decades before I heard that others were also unhappy with their circumcision and were seeking ways to restore their brutally amputated foreskin.
What I could not express at that tender age, I now know that what I felt as a young boy was much the same emotion that one feels if one has been raped. Yes, raped. Without my consent, my gentials were manipulated, attacked and permanently altered. Fifty years later, I still suffer embarrassment, humiliation, and emotional pain.
Eventually, I became a Pediatric Registered Nurse and began an intensive study of the surgical process of genital alteration, commonly called circumcision. My only outlet is to attempt to educate and protect other innocent and unsuspecting boys from the life of pain, humiliation and embarrassment that I have suffered. Call me what you will; I know that there are tens of thousands of American men who came to realize the same thing that I did. I only realized it much, much earlier, for the sexual assault happened to me at an age that I was aware and knew how my natural body had been and was attacked and altered.
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American Female Circumcised by American Doctors
I am a white, anglo-saxon, protestant woman who was circumcised in the USA in the 1950’s. Some women advocate routine infant circumcision for males while decrying FGM in Africa. I cannot advocate cutting anyone, ever, for any reason.
What follows is my story. Thank you for reading it with an open heart.
As far as I can tell, I have scars on my labia set at 90 degree angles where flesh obviously met metal, and a “V”-shaped scar where a clitoris used to be. An expert on female genital anatomy told me I was also missing my clitoral hood.
My parents are both dead so I can’t ask them for details, but I have pieced events together and it seems to make sense that I was cut in two stages: the labia when I was one year old, and the clitoris and hood when I was six. I didn’t find out about it until I was over 50 years of age, so I lived in a bit of hell for many, many years.
My early photos show that I was the happiest of children — until I was in the first grade (see the photos on my website). Then a cloud came over me and after that time photos were full of anger, resentment and rejection. I lived that way for decades. I wanted to be dead. I rejected everyone and everything. I ran away or pushed away everyone who tried to love me… and I had no idea why. I was miserable and thought it was “normal”. I couldn’t understand how people could be happy and love each other. I had few friends. Although I usually had a boyfriend, I was always was exceedingly lonely. I am grateful that I did not turn to alcohol or drugs. A brush I’d had with an angelic voice when I was a little girl let me know suicide was not an option. Eventually, I learned all I could about healing. But nothing seemed to help me out of my own empty anger and grief.
No one could understand me, including myself. And then — a miracle! — I was wondering why most “men” were so different from most women and I realized that most of the men in the United States had been traumatized, when they were just babies, by circumcision. How cruel!. I was shocked, appalled, aghast. Due to my crisis counseling work, I knew that such a terrifying event could ruin an entire life. I felt quite safe around the people I met who were clear about not cutting children and I began to work with them to prevent circumcision. After I’d been involved for a couple of years, through a series of interesting “coincidences,” I discovered that I too had been circumcised. I had lost my clitoris, clitoral hood and labia. All of a sudden, my life made perfect sense. Knowing that I had been traumatized made sense of my feelings and behavior. A year or so ago, I met a wonderful therapist who was safe enough that I could allow myself to think about my childhood and piece together the memories. Healing the trauma came fairly quickly after that. After 50 miserable years, my little black cloud evaporated. I look in the mirror now and I see the happy smile I’d lost at age six. I am happy, at last, to be alive.
I found that I was always good at handling emergencies, so I specialized in dealing with people in trauma… at a crisis center and in private practice as a hypnotherapisst. This gave me a good background for dealing with my own situation when I discovered I’d been mutilated.
My entire life was hell before I found out I’d been cut, so when I found out, a lot of bad old feelings actually went away.. So I am hoping that healing can begin for many of my sisters and brothers who are still unaware that they were traumatized as children. Until they know the horror of it, and until they release the fear and terror around it, they might just be wondering why they kick the dog, throw the cat against the wall, yell at the wife, beat the kids, hate the boss, and frantically accumulate wealth to the detriment of their own integrity.
I hope this blog and my book will plant seeds of hope for your healng and/or compassion for the overwhelming number of people—both men and women—who have had this awful thing happen to them.
I am hoping to find out, by way of a book I wrote (and this blog), how many American women in the United States have been subjected to female genital mutilation. I suspect there are far more than we would ever imagine. I hope, if you were cut, you will get in touch with me. I am sorry it happened to you, and we can support each other in the process of healing the mental, emotional, and spiritual wounds… maybe we can ever figure out, like men have, how to restore our bodies to their original function.
You can read excerpts from my book at www.AesculapiusPress.com. I hope you will enjoy it and it will be of value to you.
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