eternumpace: i had a dream last night that you may find interesting, velvt

velvt.: tell me more, peaceful one

eternumpace: well, it started out with a sense of doom evil that sort of thing

velvt.: ick... but go on

eternumpace: then i felt a rush of some sort pushing me and my consciousness became slighly more lucid. upon 'breaking thru' a sortof of fearful massy cloud i was floating in what looked like the basement of my childhood home

eternumpace: then i was aware of myself floating in this "astral" memory place and consciousness breathing deeply to to give myself added lucidity

eternumpace: consciously

velvt.: was that part of the dream, or something you were doing while dreaming, a conscious decision?

eternumpace: then i heard the most clear command i had ever heard in my life from a voice or a collective of voices that I understand to be somewhat angelic in nature as I continued to float upward through the second floor of my old home

eternumpace: < a conscious decision > in order to keep myself out of body

velvt.: ok... sounds very wonderful so far

eternumpace: the command was simply this and was very clear "servant. return to the song"

eternumpace: it felt like it echoed through my very being and then i awoke with a start with that voice still echoing in my head

velvt.: what a wonderful thing!

eternumpace: my initial impression upon awakening was that i was summoning a part of myself to myself

eternumpace: but what fills me with awe is the authoritativeness of that voice

eternumpace: the love

velvt.: write about it so you remember it... most importantly is to write about, or focus on remembering, your sensations and reactions

eternumpace: i also got the feeling that there was a lot more going on in my life than meets my eye, sortof like it says in that echankar booklet

eternumpace: yes. i made sure when i awoke that i remembered that voice

velvt.: there is always more going on than we are conscious of

eternumpace: it was a beautiful dream. like an answer to prayer

velvt.: learning to first believe that, and then to start seeing it, is salvaton, i think

eternumpace: yes. and so much more going on in other people's lives as well

velvt.: the christians just got it all goofy by tying it into one being, instead of within each of us

eternumpace: yeah

velvt.: when you start seeing that way, life becomes very different

eternumpace: the xian practice of "god" is authoritarian, which works well for developing civilizations / agrarian tribes, not so well in the 21st century

velvt.: things become challenges and obstacles, not overwhelming problems

velvt.: well, it didn't work for pagans either, before christianity... so what does that say?

eternumpace: that is another thing about the dream. i felt like something pushed me thru a lot of negative angry material that has dogged me at some level for some time.

eternumpace: vevlt, cultural history is very clear about the fact that a sufficeitn number of groupings of humans above stone age technology tend to form authoritarian systems of governance in lieu of a viable communication media

velvt.: karmic crap that you can leave now

eternumpace: even stranger was the day before....

velvt.: hang on

velvt.: the 'historical fact' bit

velvt.: look into ancient goddess worship, not just the male agrarian gods... it's very different

eternumpace: a sortof psycoid experience where i was staring at this picture of a "scale" on the back window of a car for the entire boat trip home. it felt like it had some signifance and I kept trying to remember what you said about the nature of karma.

velvt.: a scale, as in one used to weigh things?

eternumpace: well, in a broad sense, velvt. perhaps incomplete. but take egypt for instance, or ancient peru and mexico

eternumpace: yes. a scale.

velvt.: those were all agricultural civilizations, at least as recorded by history

eternumpace: yes. they were.

eternumpace: but we also know, in the broad swipe of cultural evolution that every society adopts democracy or some such thing at its earliest opportunity, usually with burgeoning media technology that allow the members of the ancient tribe to have sufficient representation

velvt.: how does that pertain to male gods, with authoritarian ways?

eternumpace: you've got me.

velvt.: lol

velvt.: you're cute sometimes, did you know that?

eternumpace: what is so funny?

velvt.: well, maybe i misunderstood you

eternumpace: what?

velvt.: i thought you were giving support to your earlier comment about authoritaarian god/s.... and when i questioned the pertinence you said 'you've got me'

velvt.: appealed to my humor

eternumpace: perhaps i should say that I proceed with the axiom that "male authoritarian regimes" are in fact reincarnations of the great mother, vis a vis her mystery technology of soul spirit and myth

velvt.: i don't

eternumpace: well. then there we diverge i suppose.

eternumpace: yes. i see how that is humorous. :-)

eternumpace: <above>

velvt.: whew

eternumpace: of course it is not just my supposition it is also Joseph Cambells in his steller work , "the masks of god". and believe me, joe is no big fan of christian authoritarien cultural pseudometamorphises

eternumpace: he is , however, the first scholar i have heard to say that religion needs be current with science

velvt.: perhaps i took what you said too literally

velvt.: about the reincarnation thing, i mean

eternumpace: i was not trying to rationalize male dominance of any kind, simply look at the patterns of its workings

eternumpace: reincarnation? oh. of the godess. well the idea is that patriarchy is what the great mother invented to enact her creative will

velvt.: the problem is that most 'studies' of that sort of thing start with the agricultural civilizations... they ignore the preceeding couple of million years of spirituality

eternumpace: or so the story goes

eternumpace: well, the neolithic is the one with the most physical evidence of spirituality i believe

eternumpace: whether that is agrarian per se i don't know

velvt.: i just lost track of our conversation... guess my brain is telling me it's worked enough today

eternumpace: ok doky. well chronology is my weak point. i enjoy the implications much more

velvt.: yeah, me too

eternumpace: i believe though yes that male groups or systems apporpriated earlier pyschically entrenched spirituality and myth

velvt.: there is a fairly classic work about that... called the chalice and the blade... can't remember the author's name right now

velvt.: but it is about the supplanting of the goddess by male gods

eternumpace: but like you seem to say as well, and what my point was as well is that 2 to 5 thousand years of authoritarian governance and myth making is no match for several million preceeding it

velvt.: it's all in us, our needs and perceptions... god is just god, IMO

eternumpace: yes. you have mentioned that book before. and i have seen it around. one day i will have to look at it. i did read cover to cover monica soojs, "The Great Cosmic MOther: recreating the religion of the earth" which covers much the same subject

velvt.: i have that book... it's a good one

eternumpace: yes. deeply effected how i saw the world. which is what a good writer does to you

eternumpace: i still remember sitting in the back seeat of my friends car ( who were all xian) and being utterly absorbed in this book . put a real grin on my face

eternumpace: i read it in like 3 or 4 days

velvt.: i first got pulled into it in a restaurant

velvt.: i had bought it, and took it in with me when i stopped for dinner

velvt.: met an interesting man who saw me reading it and stopped to discuss it

eternumpace: thats cool

eternumpace: at 2 years of college i rarely met anyone who was interested in anything i was reading lol

velvt.: what a shame

velvt.: but in college people are more caught up in their own studies, maybe

velvt.: time for me to wipe out

velvt.: i'll be back on later and may see you then

eternumpace: its funny how you so often meet people who believe knowledge is just a game a small group of uptight people play or that knowledge is some serious alibi one must have all worked out before st' Peter's gate. i think its both.

eternumpace: we live in the zeitgeist of wissinkunstl. the play of knowledge in a world full of serious data processors

velvt.: i like that

velvt.: play of knowledge.

eternumpace: its from a book called "the time falling bodies take to light", by another very sympathetic male author named william irwin thompson

velvt.: rings a bell

eternumpace: he also wrote On the Edge of History

velvt.: i'll see you another time.... i really am falling apart here... some busy days now, relatively speaking

eternumpace: of course my college profs didn't take him seriously which made me like him all the more

eternumpace: they thought i was stupid too

velvt.: lol

velvt.: how dull of them

eternumpace: oh. alright. take care. thanks for the chat.

velvt.: thank you, also

velvt.: it's nice to get more than 'wassup'

eternumpace: i'm down with that, dawg

velvt.: heheh