This was my 3rd talk with Maggie, one which took on a pretty serious direction after she asked me if I ever knew of a person who did self harm. Since I had extensive talks with other individuals in the past who went through similar problems I took some time to find out her particular interest in this subject. Maggie: tanks for responding. you helped even with that,  thank you realize2actualize: glad, but I wonder why you asked me that question? realize2actualize: you ever harm yourself, and why in gods name would you do such a thing? Maggie: at the time of my offline message to you, I was facing a temptation that was almost impossible to stop Maggie: it was a panic attack out of control realize2actualize: so sorry to hear that, but you managed, right?? Maggie: yes, I made it, and I was very happy Maggie: it has almost been a year Maggie: since I did Maggie: you asked why people do it, Maggie: some people take a hit off of a pipe, or look to the bottle, those are all forms of self punishment realize2actualize: to release some pressure I assume Maggie: yes realize2actualize: still realize2actualize: too bad it would even come to that Maggie: and when you are 13 realize2actualize: yeah, tell me how you get started with this Maggie: oh man..now that's a long email Maggie: I will say this Maggie: I have been studying this for many years...and one thing I was able to link was some of the words carved in the girls bodies Maggie: (We didn't have internet when I was 13, so I thought I was the only one) realize2actualize: what girls bodies? Maggie: I carved, "Kim lost" Maggie: pictures I have found on cutter websites Maggie: it scared me, I have never seen others realize2actualize: does your husband know about any of this? Maggie: yes Maggie: <sigh> Maggie: okay Maggie: he knew when we started dating Maggie: and he put the ultimatium on me when we were 20 Maggie: he said, if you do it, I am leaving Maggie: so I stopped, cold turkey realize2actualize: that is pretty tought, but ok Maggie: it was the best thing that happened to me, just like a drug Maggie: you have to STOP Maggie: more than a decade passed Maggie: cut free Maggie: On January 1st, I would say 3-4 years ago... realize2actualize: right realize2actualize: good for you Maggie: at 10 AM realize2actualize: still, I would say the the underlying reasons for why you have ever done it in the first place are still there, and at times when things are tough you still feel the urge realize2actualize: but I commend you not having done it Maggie: my doorbell rang, and it was my 6'5 300lb brother crying...his wife didn't come home, she met someone else.  He basically fell on top of me.. Maggie: he was broken... Maggie: and his divorce wrecked me realize2actualize: when was that? Maggie: I cut so much that year Maggie: after 9/11 realize2actualize: dang realize2actualize: so sorry to hear it Maggie: had to be jan 1st 2002 Maggie: hubby knew Maggie: he didn't leave me Maggie: he saw how crushed...I wanted to switch places with my brother Maggie: but I couldn't.  At the bar one night, I was dj'ing...got really drunk...and cut a large gash in my bicep area realize2actualize: ouch realize2actualize: please don't ever do that again, regardless of how tough things can get Maggie: so I quit the bars, quit drinking, and have been working on the CAUSE for cutting, and fighting the urges realize2actualize: it's not going to help anything really, even though you might feel temporary relief realize2actualize: good for you Maggie: but yesterday, was just a bad day realize2actualize: those are the biggest challenges Maggie: the DSM IV talks about it as a "underlying sexual abuse"  but I have actually figured out it is closer to verbal/mental abuse realize2actualize: I understand, yet, harming your beautiful body god has given you is not the answer Maggie: and feelings of not being good enough Maggie: Our body is the temple for God's spirit Maggie: that's why I was telling you about the other pictures I saw Maggie: in 1987 I carved, Maggie Lost realize2actualize: lost what? Maggie: but recently I found other girls pics of their cutting Maggie: "Always 2nd best"  and "They won" Maggie: that's the question! Maggie: 3 differnt girls realize2actualize: the more you embrace yourself and love yourself and respect yourself the less you will be doing those terrible things to yourself realize2actualize: listen realize2actualize: you never loose realize2actualize: in life, the really are no winners and losers, only we people in our society came up with those stupid concepts Maggie: I agree...but there isn't anyone working on helping these cutters realize2actualize: if you want to compete with the only worthwhile person to do that with, yourself Maggie: If I could figure out the common denominator realize2actualize: which is? realize2actualize: I have talked to quite a few of those girls online Maggie: lol..that's what I am working on....  "Maggie lost" "they won" always 2nd best" Maggie: what were we try to say Maggie: trying Maggie: Did our parents play favorites? Maggie: Did our fathers not acknowledge us as anything more than offspring? realize2actualize: well, regardless of the answer to any of those questions realize2actualize: we are children of God, beautiful, magnificent people, and however our parents might not love us the way they should, or how difficult things might be in our lives realize2actualize: it is our responsibility to cherish and love us unconditionally, cause if we don't, who will?? realize2actualize: and cutting is not a sign of love realize2actualize: so, love yourself and things will get better Maggie: i know..I think that's why I havn't cut since FEB 04 realize2actualize: have confidence in yourself realize2actualize: faith Maggie: yes realize2actualize: cutting is  a decision realize2actualize: anything is for that matter realize2actualize: and you could, regardless of how difficult things might be learn a different way of coping with that realize2actualize: it's a paradigm shift realize2actualize: a different way of looking at the problem, and the solution realize2actualize: did you ever talked to your daughter about those things? Maggie: yes, and sometimes i have to tell my brain that I will cut in order so Maggie: No! Maggie: the moment passes Maggie: I am afraid Maggie: but Maggie: We treat her with respect, she have taught her to respect herself Maggie: she is raised 100 times different Maggie: I might have different issues, but I do not see that Maggie: Until we fully understand the reason....it is very hard to just let go realize2actualize: the reason for?? Maggie: the reason why people chose the blade Maggie: and even if I don't cut another decade Maggie: I wall still need to know realize2actualize: I could help you understand that Maggie: help me understand the need? realize2actualize: the reason for why people do it realize2actualize: not that it helps, but maybe it could realize2actualize: but we talked about some of that before, so I wonder if it might not be more important for you to know how to not only heal your scars, but also how to fully embrace and love yourself realize2actualize: since it is my firm belief that nobody would ever hurt themselves who fully love themselves and life realize2actualize: cause love is the answer realize2actualize: always is, always has been, always will be Maggie: I know the why question is irrelevant Maggie: spelling realize2actualize: not really realize2actualize: but in light of other things, maybe so realize2actualize: cause life is for the living, and every time we fail to give expression to all of that greatness which lies within us we might do silly and crazy and dangerous things realize2actualize: cause we cut off a big part of our humanity and individuality Maggie: but many kids are 10-13 when they start Maggie: I don't expect a child to understand why they comfort themselves with a blade Maggie: someone should be looking out for them Maggie: I have to get ready and run some errands realize2actualize: no problem Maggie: you have no idea how much you have helped me.  realize2actualize: and I understand what you are saying realize2actualize: so very glad to be of assistance Maggie: You always stay strong, and tell me what I NEED to hear Maggie: it is about love... realize2actualize: it sure is Maggie: and self love, and then love of others Maggie: It just angers me to see other go through it realize2actualize: every action is either sponsored by fear, or by love Maggie: I have a site, not my site, realize2actualize: I understand Maggie: I am going to send it to you Maggie: but you decide if you want to see it Maggie: http://www.ukangel.co.uk/self%20harm.htm realize2actualize: but anger is not going to make the change really realize2actualize: will do Maggie: the graphics are scary Maggie: :-)  peace and blessings! realize2actualize: take very good care of yourself realize2actualize: peace