Sunday Morning Talk Given by Anil Kumar February 18th 2001 OM...OM...OM... Sai Ram. With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan, Dear Brothers and Sisters! The conversation which we had there on the verandah just an hour ago is going to be shared with you - hot, hot! Very fresh from the oven! (Laughter and applause) I'm very much interested in listening and more interested in sharing. Because there is greater joy in sharing the good news with everybody of what Swami says to people, what He wants us to know. I believe that Bhagavan takes every occasion, every incident, to convey something important, to convey something deeper, something higher, of spiritual significance, of practical application in our daily lives. It is with that view that I want to share with you what Bhagavan said just an hour ago. ********* There are two famous poets in Telugu literature. One is called Pothana. Another poet is Srinatha. These are the two poets of Telugu literature who are very famous. Their names, perhaps you may find it difficult to repeat, and I don't want you to do so nor try. But the spirit of it is important. What Bhagavan wants to convey is important. The first one's name is Pothana: three letters, Po - tha - na. Am I clear please? Three letters: Po - tha - na. Bhagavan, being Saraswati, the Goddess of Literature, the Goddess of Knowledge, the very Personification, the Embodiment of all that could be communicated in any language anywhere, can easily split the word, play with the word and communicate that which we cannot usually imagine, interpret and comprehend. It is for the Divine player, the Cosmic Poet, the Poet of poets, who can split the words and the letters and convey in-depth something new, something creative, and something novel. A simple example: the poet's name is Pothana, Po - tha - na, there are three letters in his name. I was just wondering, 'What is it? Swami is speaking about this poet Pothana. Is there anything new?' Swami said, "Split it into two: 'Po' and the other part, 'thana'. Split into two parts, 'Po' and the second part, the other two letters, 'thana.'" I see. What is Swami going to say? 'Po' means 'get out'. Let all the bad in me, let all the possessive instinct in me, let all the attachment and the evil traits in me, bad qualities in me, 'Po!', 'Get out!' Ahh! Then what about the other two letters of 'Thana.' 'Thana' means the 'Self', the One you really are, the Spirit, the Self, the Consciousness, the Awareness. So this poet, Pothana, is a great poet. Why? He made all the bad in him, 'Po!' 'Get out!' And he remained in the state of Awareness, the Self-consciousness, 'Thana,' his true Self. So, remaining in that true Self, 'Thana', he started composing the great epic, Bhagavata. Bhagavata is one of the greatest epics of Sanathana Dharma (the Eternal Dharma). Bhagavata deals with the stories relating to illustrious devotees. If we read Bhagavata, we get lost. We forget where we are. We'll be transported to the ethereal world, to the celestial plane. Bhagavata is really a text that one should necessarily go through. Such an epic Pothana could write. Such a popular book Pothana could compose. Why? First thing he did was, 'Po!' He asked all the bad qualities, 'Po!' 'Get out!' And second, he remained in the state of 'Thana', the Self, the Consciousness. Out of that Consciousness, out of that Awareness sprung, out it came out like a fountain, like a waterfall, all the noble, Divine qualities of creativity, sublime thoughts, noble thoughts, wonderful thoughts that kept him in the state of ecstasy, maintaining literature in the state of excellence. So, Pothana was excited in the beginning, remained in the state of ecstasy in the position of 'Thana' or Consciousness, and then expressed later. So, first excitement, then ecstasy, and last statement. The third state is statement by way of composition - in this case, the great epic Bhagavata. That's the reason why it is so beautiful. That is what Bhagavan has said. My friends! Most of the people, particularly all Indians, particularly Telugu-knowing people, if they have not heard the name of Pothana, well, woe unto him! He has no place in all the fourteen worlds! Even the gates to the hell also will be closed to him (Laughter). Such a poor fellow! I don't think anyone exists like that nor, if he did exist, would dare to say, "Here I am," having heard this! And then Pothana's close relation is Srinatha, another poet. Srinatha is another poet. They are very close relations. The difference is Pothana lived the life of a beggar. Though the greatest poet, he led the life of a beggar. He could not make both ends meet. He was a great devotee and composed an epic, which is still alive with all energy, with all life and vitality down this day. His close relation is Srinatha, another poet. He is a great name in the field of Telugu literature. He made good compositions, lived the life of affluence, and was rich enough with wealth, pomp, show, extravagance and luxury. Ah! Five-storied mansions or five-star hotels! A man with a bowl was Pothana. A man in mansions is Srinatha, though closely related. You must have understood by now that it is not in my nature to keep quiet but to get into the Divine risk every time! Because of the Divine insurance policy coverage (Laughter), I could survive as of today though I am not sure of tomorrow! Now, here is the question: "Swami, Srinatha, a poet indeed, was a very rich man. He was a wealthy man, a famous man, a reputed man with so many titles, who enjoyed the patronage of all kings and emperors of those times. On the other hand, we speak of Pothana, the great epic composer of Bhagavata, who always remained a beggar! What a difference it is! What a price he had to pay as a devotee! Is this the kind of life expected of a devotee? Must one always be living in want?" Then Bhagavan said, "A simple illustration. One day Srinatha came on a visit to Pothana's residence. Srinatha, the rich man, visited Pothana, his close relation, a poor poet. And Srinatha said like this, "Hello! How are you?" He was sitting right there on a palanquin on a silky, velvety mattress of so much thickness, relaxing and reclining. Ah! He was enjoying luxury. He was inquiring how his close relation was suffering. "How are you? How are you?" And he didn't keep quiet at that stage. "How are you?" The agriculturist after all, is an agriculturist. "How are you?" This great man was toiling hard leading the life of a farmer, an agriculturist, whereas Srinatha, living in all affluence, was asking, "How are you?" When he said to this poor man, "How are you?" he said it with a tinge of heckling to make fun of him, to let him know how cheap he is. He is implying, "Here I am. I have composed all my books and have given them to the King and I enjoy his patronage. But here you are, and you have dedicated your composition to God, whom you've never met, whom you never saw, and suffer like this! By dedicating your composition thus, you are remaining a beggar. By dedicating my book to the King, I am living in affluence, plenty and prosperity." That man is asking this man, taking him to be so low, "How are you, you farmer?" That is a beautiful poem. Of course, since all of you can't follow, there is no point repeating it in Telugu unless I have the vanity of exhibiting my memory, which I don't have. It is not the age for vanity! It is enough if I am understood, OK? And then this man Pothana, the poor man, the farmer, started responding to his question. "Look here! Instead of offering my composition, my book to kings and partake of that dirty, hopeless food and carry on my life's sojourn, it is enough if I stand on my own legs and have one square meal a day. It is enough if I lead my life as a farmer. I'm not bothered about you. This life is enough!" That's what he said. Now comes Swami's comment. This story is known to everybody. Bhagavan gave this beautiful comment: "Pothana cultivated his land and he has partaken all the food, all the grain, that he had cultivated himself on the land; whereas Srinatha, being a rich man, depended on the charity of the King. The King had to give him some money. The King had to give him lots and lots of riches in appreciation of his scholarship. He was at the receiving end, whereas Pothana cultivated his own land. He could grow the grain and partake his food." Now Bhagavan adds one more sentence: "As a receiver, no matter gold or diamonds or riches or anything, even all the wealth, as a receiver, after all you are a beggar. As a receiver, after all you are a beggar, no matter whether it is gold or diamonds or anything else! But Pothana cultivated his own land. He had really labored hard. He lived by the sweat of his brow and then he started partaking the grain, the food that he had cultivated, had grown all by himself. He is the rich man. He may be very poor as a farmer, but yet he relied on God. He stood on his legs. He never stood in front of a king, waiting for the riches, waiting for the gold. No!" Then Swami said, "Who is the rich man now? Not Srinatha, the man of all riches and wealth. He is not rich. He has riches but he is not rich. Riches are different from being rich. Riches, all the riches in this world, represent possessions. We may possess, but we may not be rich enough. A simple example: A person is running a sweet shop with all sweets, laddus and all those sweets you know - the pie and the donuts, whatever you may call them. But the owner is a diabetic. He cannot eat anything. The owner is a diabetic. He cannot eat even a piece of the sweet that he sells to thousands of people. Similarly, you may have all the riches in the world, but you may not be able to enjoy anything. So one can have riches but need not be necessarily rich enough. Therefore, who is the rich man here? This poor man. The poor man is rich because he has cultivated his own land and lived on that. The so-called poor is rich. The so-called rich man is poor because he is standing in front of the door of the kings, waiting, begging for the gold and the diamonds. "Swami, abaa! (Telugu statement of surprise) What an interpretation it is! I have not heard that interpretation anytime, though I have gone through some of their own compositions." I was a student of Telugu literature also. I have gone through some of their books, but I have not heard this kind of interpretation. Naturally I was very much thrilled by that, what Bhagavan has said. ********* Then I have put another question: "Bhagavan, this morning You are speaking of poets, poetry, men of letters and scholarship who are remembered, whose compositions are read everyday. Now, among the Fine Arts, Fine Arts are five. The Arts are sixty-four in number, but Fine Arts are five. Among those sixty-four Arts, even robbery also is an Art! (Laughter) Oh yes, it is an Art! It is not easy to rob everybody! (Laughter) When you make a film, you can make money also. Unless it is an Art, how can they make money on robbery? So, it is also an Art. So sixty-four forms of Arts are there. Among them, five are Fine Arts: the Music, the Literature, the Dance, the Drama, and the Culture. These are the Fine Arts. Then I said, "Swami, is Literature the greatest among the Fine Arts? What is the greatest among the Fine Arts?" In other word, among the sixty-four forms of Arts, five are the Fine Arts. Among these five, what is very fine? What is the best? Swami said, "It is not Literature, 'Sahitya', but it is Music, 'Sangita', which is the best of all. Music is the best among the Fine Arts." Well, I could not swallow it! "Why, Swami? Why?" We belong to the Age of Science and Electronics. We cannot simply keep quiet! I want to get some answer (and also I'll get some banging which necessarily follows)! (Laughter) We have to pay the price. We cannot get it just like that. So, "Why is it that You say Music comes first and Literature comes next among the Fine Arts? Why?" Bhagavan said, "To understand Literature, you need some kind of background. You need some kind of effort. You need some type of formal learning, some education, some standard, to know literature. But to enjoy music, if your ears are all right, fine!" (Laughter) If your ears are in good condition, that's fine. You don't need to know any letters. You don't need to have any education. You don't need to have any knowledge. But music, ah! You nod your head, no matter whether it is bhajans or the pop-music of Michael Jackson. (Laughter) "Well, do You think so?" So, Music is the greatest of all the Fine Arts. That is what Bhagavan said. ********* Then come some questions on philosophy and spirituality. I think you'll appreciate them. Bhagavan said a particular statement in response to a question. According to Swami, spiritual exercise is Yoga, not the physical exercise. I told you this many times. In the name of Yoga, people are making money. All the moneymaking Yoga is physical exercise, gymnastics. That's all. The spiritual exercise is true Yoga in the strict sense of the term because Yoga means union. So, union with God is Yoga. Now Swami, this is the question: "Those that follow the path of Yoga, where will they stand in the field of Literature? Because by going with the description, by going with the verbal statement, by going with documentation, this spiritual exercise, Yoga, may dominate. And his creativity, his composition may be subdued as Yoga, concentration of the Yoga, gets a priority over composition." Am I clear please? Yoga gets priority over composition. So, a great poet cannot be a Yogi. That's it. If you want to be a Yogi, you cannot be a poet. If you want to be a poet, if you are a Yogi, Yoga takes a priority over this composition. This is what I said. Swami gave a wonderful answer: "Whatever may be the composition, whatever may be the documentation, whatever you may write, there should be an undercurrent of Divinity. There should be an undercurrent of Yoga. There should be an undercurrent of spiritual awakening. There should be an underlying current, underlying flow of spiritual experience." "Oh-ho! Swami! A Yogi also can be a Kavi, a poet?" Bhagavan said, "He is only a true poet if he is a Yogi. A Yogi, a man of meditation, a man of spiritual excellence, a man of awareness, a Yogi, is a true poet." "Oh-ho, Swami! Then minus that, what will happen? Supposing I don't have spiritual awareness? I have no spiritual awakening. Can I be a poet? Is it necessary that I have, that I should have that spiritual awakening?" I ask because later let us get deeper and deeper into the subject so that we'll be done with it once for all. That's why always I'm very keen to ask - until Swami says, "Enough is enough!" (Laughter) Let me get the final answer! Let me go deep into the subject, not superficially because we will not find Swami tomorrow to answer our questions. This means I may not get another chance to ask Him. He may meekly, nicely, beautifully avoid me! (Laughter) Nothing is guaranteed with Swami. When once we are sure that He will come that way, the Darshan may be cancelled in the honour of my devotion! (Laughter) When I'm so sure that He'll pass by my side and collect a letter, that I would have a chance to give some petition, some appeal, some request, some prayers, Darshan will start from backwards (Laughter) so that I'm nobody! Therefore my friends, though it is highly risky I still get into it because I am not sure of tomorrow. Let me take best advantage of today, and know all the details! Now this is the question: A Yogi, a man of spiritual exercise, can be a best poet, right? My question is, if he's not a Yogi, if he's not the one of Awareness, can he still be a writer? Can he still be a poet?" Swami said, "If he's not a Yogi, such a poet is a Rogi, the diseased. (Laughter) He is a diseased one, a Rogi. A true Yogi is only a poet, Kavi. Otherwise, he's a Rogi, a diseased or inflicted person." "OK, Swami. Then who am I? I'm not a Yogi. I'm not a poet. Then who am I?" (I am in a convenient position because that is the greatness of a Yogi or a Kavi or a poet. Now I'm conveniently away from those fields, out of the danger zone!) "Then, who am I?" Then Swami said, "If you enjoy that composition, if you experience the composition of a Yogi (the one with a spiritual awakening, the man of spiritual awareness, the man of philosophical bent of mind or the spiritual state of experience), if you enjoy reading his composition, you are a Bhogi, the one of pleasure." (Laughter) So the reader is a Bhogi because he enjoys the pleasure of going through the composition. So, we are all Bhogis. We read books, fine! But if the author has spiritual awakening, he's a true poet. If he has no spiritual awakening, he is a Rogi. It is his botheration. We are comfortable. So, these were the three words He played with - Yogi, Bhogi and Rogi. I think I am clear. Am I clear, please? Yes. And then followed this. Further He said, "The spiritual awakening will bring out the depths, the fathomless depths, the immeasurable depths of excellence, which is latent in the poet. Every poet brings forth the latent, fathomless depths of excellence hidden within him. With this spiritual exercise, that will find an statement that originates naturally, that is absolutely required." That's what Bhagavan has said. Then another question. Swami said in a lighter vein, "I came earlier. You were not there. What happened?" (I was there for Darshan, but I had a little break. Of course, you all know the reason - to have my breakfast!) At that time, God comes to supervise. (Laughter) Very inconvenient time! (Laughter) And He marks me absent! (Laughter) When I am present, He ignores me. (Laughter) Absence is registered. Presence is ignored. This is the Divine style of functioning, which so difficult to reconcile till this day, as we are not able to know the dynamics and the mechanics of this Avatar, the Incarnation. Yet we have to go through this! Suddenly He came close, "What happened to you?" What shall I say? The boys are around. Well, they may smile but I can't hide anything! Now the cat is out of the bag! "For breakfast I went, Swami!" (Laughter) Then He asked me, "What did you eat?" (Laughter) So personal, you know. It is so difficult to say what I ate because boys stay in the Hostel, and they may not be having the items I have had this morning. The poor fellows might have had only bread, but I had sumptuous things here at home. How dare I make them feel badly. That is very inconvenient. Then I said, "Only two items, Swami." (Laughter) "Only two? What are they?" (Laughter) He doesn't want to leave me at that point! "Ah, Swami, two items are there." "No, no! What are they? Tell Me!" "One is dosa, other is upma, Swami," I said. "It is a combination, Swami." "Oh-ho! Dosa-Upma combination?" (You know Dosa and Upma. If you want to know, you can go to the South Indian Canteen. You may not relish knowing what it is.) "So, Dosa and Upma - a good combination." I said, "Oh-ho, I see." Basing on this, He developed this subject: "This combination is there in our life," He said. "Ah! What is it?" "The combination of secular and spirituality go together - the world and the Divine. The secular and the spiritual can go together. That is a beautiful combination besides your Dosa and Upma." I say, what is this? What Bhagavan said is a beautiful statement: "One is the gross, Sthula. The other is the subtle, Sukshma. Sukshma means subtle. One is the gross, Sthula. The other is Sukshma, the subtle. That is a beautiful combination. The gross contains inside it the subtle." "Oh, I see Swami! Therefore I do not know what that subtlety is because I am gross. I am gross - I know my height, I know my weight, I know my chest. This is gross. And the subtle You spoke about, I don't experience because it is so subtle to know the subtlety! (Laughter) So I don't know what it is." Then Bhagavan said, "Oh-ho! The bulb you see is gross and the electricity is subtle. Electricity is subtle. You do not see it. The bulb is gross. That you see. So for the gross to function, the subtle is responsible. For the gross to be benefited, for the gross to find an statement, the subtle is an essential need. Subtle is fundamental, while gross is its statement, is its manifestation, is its utility. So the subtle expresses itself by way of the gross." "Oh!" Then another question: "So, Swami, gross comes out of the subtle. Am I right? So, there is subtle (Sukshma) and the gross (Sthula). This Sthula, gross, has come out of, has originated from, has taken birth from this subtle, Sukshma. Subtle is the cause out of which gross is born. Am I right?" That's what I said to Swami. Swami negates whatever we say (Laughter). But it is always for the better, not for the simple point to say 'no' to you! He answers to improve on our answer, and for a better understanding. Then He said, "No, no, no, no! There is gross in the subtle. There is subtle in the gross." Oh-ho! Now I'm neither gross nor subtle! I'm gone in both the ways! At least I'm comfortable as gross. Now that Swami said there is subtle in the gross, and there is the gross in the subtle, where am I now? In-between or what? Swami has gone and made me totally confused! Confusion confirmed it. "I thought the subtle gave birth, gave rise to, the gross. And that there is subtle within this gross. Fine! But now You have confused me, telling that that there's subtle in the gross, gross in the subtle! I don't understand!" Then Bhagavan said, "A simple example: You see, here is a mango seed. The mango seed grows into a mango tree. Where is the tree? The tree is there, hidden in the seed. Seed is the subtle. Tree is the gross. So, gross tree is hidden in the subtle seed." Ah-baa! Who can say that? Subhash! (Good!) What a wonderful explanation it is! My friends, I'm sure that you'll all agree with me and you will be one with me when I say that we love Bhagavan as a world teacher, as a Teacher of teachers, because this Incarnation has come down on Earth to disseminate and spread the spiritual knowledge. And to bring within every one of us the spiritual awakening and awareness of the Self. All the rest of the activities, the functions, the celebrations, Darshan, Namaskars, interviews, Prasadam, Akhanda Bhajan, Yajna, all festivals could all be summed up, aimed at one thing: To make everyone of us realise the Divinity within. To make everyone of us realise and experience the Divinity within. That's the reason why we run after Him! "So the gross is in the subtle. Fine. But how is the subtle in the gross? You said the seed has grown into a tree. Fine! Seed is the subtle. Tree is the gross. Very fine! Then, how do You find the gross in the subtle and the subtle in the gross? Why? How about the second example? I don't understand." Then Swami said, "This tree has got mango fruits. And the mango fruits have got seed inside. So, this gross tree has subtle seeds. The subtle seeds has gross tree." Oh, I see! I'll have the fruit, thank you! (Laughter) I will eat the fruit now, thank you! So Bhagavan says there is a tree in the seed. This means Sthula in the Sukshma, gross in the subtle. And the seed is there in the tree. This means the subtle is there in the gross! That's what Swami has said. Then He said, "This is the true combination, Ayaa! (an statement of respect like, 'Sir!') Secular and spiritual, not merely dosa and upma! (Laughter) Not merely two items of the breakfast. This is the true combination of secular and spiritual, of gross as well as the subtle." That is what Bhagavan has said. "Swami! Anyhow, whether it is there in here or this is there, that's all right. I see the gross. Fine! I see the gross. I see the total. I see the form. I can visualize. I can share. I can enjoy the company. I can improve upon with some cosmetics available. Well, I can improve upon it - I can put on some more weight. But the subtle I do not see. How am I to experience it? You said its location. You mentioned its address. You mentioned where they exist. You stated how they are inter-linked. But how am I to experience it? I can see You say, 'Fine. Nice meeting you,' because I can see Your gross form. The lovely Smile I can see. The beautiful Face I can see. But how can I say about that subtle which I do not see? How can I experience that subtle and say, 'This experience is because of that'? How can I say that, as there is no direct proof. There is no direct evidence. There is no form?" Then Bhagavan said...(after all, a fellow like me, I am nothing for Him!)...immediately He said another statement: "I see. What is the form of Ananda, bliss? Ananda, bliss, has no form. Bliss has no form. But are you not blissful? You are blissful! But bliss has no form." Ah, that's it. So, the one that has no form, the bliss, makes us, makes the form, feel blissful. So, formless bliss makes the form full, makes the form blissful. Abaa! Finally I see! Maybe it is too strong a dose? "Swami, would You please explain further?" He says, "When you taste sweet, that sweet has a form. But sweetness has no form." Oh! Sweetness has no form! But a sweet has a form. Chilies have forms. Take one or two chilies and you will experience formlessness! (Laughter). We'll experience the formlessness, OK? Still we have got half-an-hour for lunchtime. If you want, I'll supply you with chilies! (Laughter) Or Indian, Andhra, South Indian pickles-form, red-hot! That form will take you to the formless state (Laughter). Am I clear, Sir? So Bhagavan says, "Bliss has no form. That formless state of bliss will make this form experience blissfulness. How to be blissful? What bliss is, is experienced with this form. But this bliss has no form as such. And you cannot deny that. Just because it has no form, I cannot say, 'There is nothing like bliss!' 'Oh, I see. But you are blissful!' " "Happiness has no form, but you are happy. Sweetness has no form, but you relish sweets. Abaa! Food is very hot, spicy! It has no form, but spicy stuff has a form. The stuff made out of spices has a form." So, Bhagavan explained this. Then I said, "Swami! Now I am made to understand. Now I'm made to understand that all that I take in through these five senses of perception give me the statement, give me the experience, which is the same. Am I correct? The sense of vision, the sense of audition, the sense of hearing, the sense of touch, through these five senses of perception, I have the experience. Am I right? The experience gained through these five senses is shapeless. It is formless. Am I correct, Swami?" Then He said, "No, no! You are wrong! (Laughter)" (I got used to this! And I also congratulate myself for being wrong. Unless I am wrong, how can I get corrected? And unless I stand corrected, how do I know that I am correct? Swami even improves on our correct answer also to be make it better, more correct, more accurate, precise and exact. I may be correct, but I may not be exact. I may not be accurate. So, even if our answers are correct, Swami will make them accurate.) So this is the question, "Bhagavan! All that I gather, all that I draw out of these five senses of perception give me an experience which is formless. Is it true?" The first answer is, "You are wrong." Fine! The second statement is this, "This experience is the combination of all that is drawn inside, all that is heard, all that is looked at, all that is touched. All the information drawn out of these five senses conglomerate, combine, synthesize, mix themselves, get dissolved into one single state of experience. All the information drawn out of these five senses gets dissolved and gives the common, uniform, single state of experience, like sweet pudding." Rice pudding, do you know? It is called Payasam. This example is given, 'Paramaanamu.' Paramaanamu is rice pudding. The Payasam you know. At the end of Akhanda Bhajan we'll have that - the two things: hot stuff and sweet stuff. This sweet one, with all the rice and all that, Paramaanam, is what you call 'pudding'. Right? You know that? Oh yeah, I think you enjoy Prasadam. Am I right? Particularly when given by the Divine hands. Don't you think so? So this second sweet is nothing but the combination of jaggery, rice, ghee, and milk. All these things make this rice pudding, right? Similarly, all the information drawn - the perception, the audition, the touch - is like rice pudding, like a sweet pudding, that gives you the sweetness of the state and the experience of bliss. The sweetness of the bliss is compared to the rice pudding. That is what Bhagavan has said. "Swami! All right. Now, so I enjoy this sweetness through my eyes, through my tongue, through my ears, and enjoy and experience with my mind. Am I right? This is the question: Is the blissful state, is the state of bliss, experienced by my senses or not? Is the state of bliss experienced by my mind or not? That is the question." The questions are a little serious but yet they are highly informative. My friends! How long should we rally around the stories and more stories? To know that Baba is God, one experience is enough. Throughout lifetimes we listen to stories and more stories. Then our life becomes a story that ends nowhere! To know the sea is marine, the whole sea is saltish. We don't have to drink the whole lot of water! One drop is enough! To know that Swami is God, one experience is enough. That doesn't mean that I'm against experiences or that I don't like to share experiences. I like to. But these experiences should take us to a higher goal, a greater goal. The purpose of an experience is different. It depends on how we look at it. The purpose of an experience is to take you closer and closer to Divinity. Experience is not the be-all and end-all. Experience is a means to an end. The end is Realisation. Experience is only a means. It is not the be-all and end-all. But unfortunately we end up with this only. So what Bhagavan says at this point I want to share with you now. What did He say? "Bhagavan! You have mentioned all these points now. I could understand what You wanted to convey. Still I have got one doubt." "What is it?" "Can I experience bliss with these senses? Can I retain, can I hold, can I detain that state of bliss in mind for some more time?" Bhagavan said a simple answer: "Bliss cannot be experienced through your senses. Bliss cannot be retained. It cannot be held. It cannot remain in your mind. No!" I see. "If the mind cannot retain it, if the senses cannot hold it, then what for is that bliss? What for?" Then Bhagavan said...Abaa! Really my friends, who can tell these Vedantic truths in depth, in such a simple style, other than Bhagavan? Who can tell? He gave a simple example: "In the daytime, we move happily. We have all these experiences. Very good. But in the night, when you go to sleep, what happens to these daytime experiences? They are gone! In a deep-sleep state, you don't have these experiences of the day. There in the sleep, you have some experiences which are not there now. Therefore, whether it is the day or night, no experience would stay permanently. All experiences are like passing clouds. The experience of the day leaves by night. The experiences of the night pass off by the daytime. So, no experience remains permanently. But the experiencer is permanent. That experiencer is no one other than Bliss, Ananda." Abaa! So, the experiencer is Ananda, bliss, non-dual, permanent, eternal, unpolluted, immortal, crystal-clear. So, that is the experiencer. Experiences come and pass off. The experiences you can think of with your mind. We experience through our senses, but the experiencer is beyond the senses. Experiencer is beyond the mind. That experiencer is the state of bliss. So my question is wrong because I want to limit the experiencer to the senses. When I limit the experiencer to the senses, it is the waking state. When I limit the experiencer to a state of mind during the night, it is a dream. So it is neither the mind nor the senses. The experiencer is continuous, ever- existent. So the experiencer is Existence. The experiencer is existential. The experiencer is life. The experiencer is bliss. It is existence, existential, to be more substantial, whereas experience is just fleeting. Experience is momentary. What a wonderful explanation Bhagavan has brought to us this morning! I was extremely happy. Then finally God is too tired to explain to dunces like me! At least let me say something. Let me appreciate Him. Oh-ho! I can't say, 'Thank you Swami.' 'Thank you' is such a simple word. Sometimes we don't really mean it. "What is it?" I said, "Swami! Who will explain things like this? This morning is really blessed! Because You have gone in-depth. You explained about all the poets, Srinatha and Pothana to begin with. You have clearly explained the Sthula, the gross, and Sukshma, the subtle. You also explained the state of bliss. Very happy, Swami! We are very grateful. Who will explain these things to us?" Swami did not say, "I am happy that you said this!" He's not that type! (Laughter) He's not waiting for our tributes. He's beyond all that. What did He say? "I am ready to tell. I don't have anybody to hear. I don't have anybody to hear these things! I am ready to tell." "Swami, what do You mean?" "Who will understand these things? Who will put such questions? Who will put such questions of enquiry? Who will put such questions towards spiritual advancement? Who will put questions towards philosophical, perfect, total understanding? I am ready to tell. Who will respond? Who is interested? That's why I am not telling these things. I'm not telling these things because I don't have anybody who is interested in these topics." Let us pray and prove worthy to receive such noble truths, to receive such philosophical doctrines, such Vedantic truths, hereafter at least! ********* And I have got one experience to share with you. I shared this with another group of listeners last week. Somehow I didn't find time to share it with you last week. But I want to tell you, to share with you this present morning before I close my talk. A very close friend of mine from the local State Bank of India - he is a very close friend and the Deputy Manager - rang up around 10 o'clock in the night and told me, "Anil Kumar! I have one thing to share with you." "Sir! Please let me know." People know that anything that comes to me will be shared with many! I repeat that this is ABC, Anil Kumar Broadcasting Corporation! (Laughter) Yes. If you don't want me to share with others, don't be anywhere near me! If you are near me, I am a satellite (Laughter) like Internet, that's all! It's an immediate transmission because I get joy out of it. Sharing Baba's message is like a dance, is like music to me. Yes, I love to do it. The Manager said, "I want to tell you what had happened." I said, "Sir, what happened?" "This morning a person came to withdraw money from the Bank. He received extra money by accident. The clerk cashier somehow, as ill luck would have it, gave him some extra money. And the person who received it collected the money, but did not count it. He's not a fellow to receive more money and go. No. He did not count it. He simply left. And in the evening, while we were closing the accounts, suddenly we found out the mistake. One person received extra money. We were very much worried, as we were not able to tally the account. At that moment, one person came immediately running to our office and said, "Sir! I received extra money. Please take it back." Then the Manager asked, "This is the modern age. Who will give that extra money back, return it? I'm yet to meet a person like that! I am so glad to meet you, to know such a thing could happen!" And that person started telling, "Sir! After receiving money from you, I had my food there in the canteen and I was resting. And Bhagavan appeared in my dream and said, "Look here! You received extra money and those bank people, the employees, are totally confused! Go back and return the money!" (Applause) Well, how am I to take it? These things happen to establish the accredibility, the accountability, and the authenticity of the Divinity, such that whatever that happens all around, from moment to moment will go down deep into our hearts so that we listen to all the sacred teachings. ********* I received a letter from Manila yesterday, the Philippines. This is a letter which also I want to pass it on to you, if you are so keen? (Audience answers, "Yes!"). Yes? I'm a man who will come to the Parliament with all the stuff! (Laughter) With all the statistics and up-to-date data! I'm a student of science, with all senses functional! That man from Manila, by name Sitaram, is a computer engineer. He wrote a letter which I showed to Bhagavan yesterday evening. Some of you might have watched. I was just passing on that letter. And Bhagavan said, "Keep it in your pocket." I said, "I have not brought it to keep it in my pocket! No." He said, "What?" "I want to read a few lines." Swami answered with a sound of not wanting to comply. "No, Swami, please! It will help everybody. Please help! Please permit me to read out these sentences." Perhaps out of botheration, being totally vexed and disgusted with me, having found out that I would not leave Him, He said, "All right, read it!" What did he write? There in Manila, Philippines, what did he write to me? "Sir, I was not at home. My wife had gone for work. And my father was all alone, a retired teacher, a sincere teacher. Somehow he was seriously sick. Anytime he might collapse. And he was silently listening to Sai's Bhajan cassette, 'Deena Bandhava Sri Sai Deva.' Well, he was listening to the cassette. Suddenly he finds Baba sitting on the cot, consoling, talking to my father. It is not a dream! It is not imagination! It is a physical manifestation of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, (Applause) sitting on the cot, conversing with the old man! Sir, please convey my gratitude to Bhagavan. Please read out this letter to brothers and sisters of the Sai family." This also is written there in the letter. And I read out that letter last evening in front of Bhagavan. Good Lord, the Creator has done millions and millions of these things. So it is not a surprise for Him. It is a matter of good news to everyone of us. It matters everything. So I'm so thrilled to hear these things and share them with my friends from time to time. With this note, I conclude my talk for this morning with all the hope that we'll be able to meet next week, same day same time. Thank you for listening to me. Thank you very much!(Applause) Om Asatoma Sadgamaya Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya Mrtyurmaya Amrtamgamaya Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu Om Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu Om Shanti Shanti Shanti