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Subject: Welcome to flesh_rpg
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:28:19 -0700 (PDT)
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[Last updated on: Wed Dec 16 19:55:18 1998]
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Z O M B I E S * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The Dead walk among us,
Bidding you enter the dark worlds of Survival Horror.
You have watched Dawn of the Dead.
Played Resident Evil to death.
This roleplaying game allows you to play in a world infested by the walking dead.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Z O M B I E S * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Introduction
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:56:23 PDT
Hello all fellow Zimbie Fans!
Just a note to say "Hello" and introduce myself. I'm Gary Mitchel, screaming out of Winston-Salem, North Carolina. I currently work as a laptop/handheld technician at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center Hospital, a teaching hospital, obvoisly. The cool thing about this at the moment, depending on your point of view, is that the floor I'm stationed on has been moved to a new area, which means that all the patient rooms are empty...the beds are bare...pale patches on the wall where the paintings were...a cleared out nursing station with wires hanging down to where equipment used to be...and it's the same floor as the morgue, the two buildings connected by a breezway that looks onto the inner area of the hospital (five buildings set up in a box-ish shape), so I get lots of good spooky vibes working here. Hopefully you can use this visual as well...baren hospital and walking dead slowly crawling out of the cold, cold rooms...patients who die on the table and then rise to discuss their surgery with the doctors...
As for being a zombie fan, I'll never forget when I was 12 and a friend of my mothers (a hippy lady of all people) found out I liked horror films and so showed me Dawn of the Dead on video. Warped me for life! I love a good zombie flick (faves being the clasic Romero "Dead" trilogy, Return of the Living Dead 1 & 2 and others) own (probably like most of you) both Resident Evil games, and just can't get enough of the walking dead. I'm looking foward to this game and talking with you guys!
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Plot Ideas
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:34:39 PDT
Hi all again.
I justy went on my rounds here at work, where I check all the laptops and hand-held units in some of the hospital (details provided if asked for) and a whole slew of ideas kept pouring through my head as I walked around a bit, all centered on walking dead in the hospital.
The main problem of running a game set in a hospital, if you want to keep players in the place, is that there are a lot of ways out. Windows, fire escapes, etc. If it's a large hospital, there may be at least two floors that have ground level exits. The main ways to get around this that came to me are having the players be patients, dependant on IV's or what-not, on the upper floors. Or have them be children in the peads unit, having to stay alive as the adults go to hell.
All kinds of imagery came to mind as I did the rounds. Since this is a teaching hospital, almost all fields of medicine are here in some form. For example, one building here that I cover this month has an oncology (cancer) ward, a peadratics ward, a heart ward, a joint replacement ward, critical care, and there are 8 floors total *in this one building alone!* There are four more buildings, ranging from 4 to 9 floors. The main building has 12, plus 3 floors of admin and admiting. Lots of variety.
Imagine patients, some straped to their beds in traction or with broken limbs in casts, others strugling to walk, clutching IVs, family members desprately trying to defend their loved ones, or trying to keep their loved ones at bay "Why does gran'pa have blood all over his face mommy?", doctors going catatonic as their belief systems shatter as all they know is defied by the shambling horrors moving down their halls, having to worry that every elevator that opens might spew out more horrors instead of being a way out, panic and blood flowing in the ER as car crash victoms stumble with shards of glass protruding from them chase after terrified attendants, security attendants desprately holding doors closed against the unyelding dead so that patients can attempt to escape, wishing that they had a gun instead of a walkie-talkie and a pager...the list goes on.
You also have all types of people in the hospital as NPC/PCs. There are the doctors, nurces, clinicians, etc, as well as admin staff, housekeeping, techs, engineering, patients, security, police, visitors...lots of potential. This was (all to briefly) touched on in Return 2, but not as well as could have been. There's a whole scenario book here, waiting to be written (hint). (I'm available for this, btw =]) Call it HOSPITAL FOOD.
What think you all?
GAry M, minor epot
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds Over Mechanics
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:48:31 PDT
Hello again. I'm prolific today. See how much I love horror/zmbies? =]
I think we're definitely on the same wavelength.
My game-running style drives GURPS folks nuts (I don't use dice and
solve randomization problems with a quick game of "Rock - Paper -
Scissors),
and hew fairly closely to the SLUG style, because I get heavily into the
I tend to do a similar thing when doing one-on-one sessions that I do with one of my players, also doing a "choose one, two or three" type if there are several possible outcomes or shades of success or failure, but I also like having a good system to fall back on if I need it. I tend to use HERO system for most of my games, because I've been playing it for about 10 years now and can fudge the rules to my satisfaction and run quickly without having to stop and look things up unless I really have to. I like the ability to have the rules to fall on because sometimes I don't want to have to make up rules wholecloth, and sometimes you do need them to arbitate some situations. That's the trouble with The Window, for example. I have to invent too much. But I also dislike overly complex rules, such as GURPS or Shadowrun because they bog down too much. Hero does this a bit as well, but as I said, I've run it long enough that it "flows" for me.
However, it does not do everything well, such as horror or magic, so I like a different system for those genres. I was hoping KULT would do it, but it's a bit complex, same for Call of C. Dito White Wolf. It somehow manages to be complex and vague at the same time. The best system one I've liked besides Hero so far is Deadlands. Runs smooth, and is quick, is fun, and really captures the feel that they wanted. I hope All Flesh will fit the bill for me, rules wise. I also have to check out Unknown Armies and see how it is.
going to give me what I need to make a story happen for myself and my
players. So... what's the scoop, Eden Guys? Give us some ideas about what
"All Flesh..." is. If I were to mosey up to the Eden Studios booth at a
con
and ask, "So, what do I do with this game, besides whack zombies and
re-play
'Dawn of the Dead,'" what would you say?
Yes, please Eden. Details please for those loyal/rabid enough to join the mailing list when the game has yet to come out. =]
GAry M, minor epot
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:56:12 PDT
Hello again!
Here's a question for my fellow zombie-philes. What flavor of zombie do you like best? Do you prefer the slow shambler, a.k.a. the classic Night Zombie? Or do you like the fast, semi-inteligent corpse a la the Return of the Living Dead/House of the Dead (video game)? '
It looks like we'll be able to have either that you want, from what I can tell from the web page. Do you plan to have both kinds? If so, why are there the two "breeds" of corpses? State of Decay? Personality/disposition before death?
Do they stop moving as the flesh rots away, or are there walking skeletons? I'll never forget the visual from the opening of Day of the Dead, all the zombies unable to move, as they had putrified to bones...having to crawl when their spines had broken when their guts had rotted out and gravity toppled them.
I've been thinking about this too much, haven't I? =]
GAry m, minor epot
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:01:34 –0500
> Here's a question for my fellow zombie-philes. What flavor of zombie do
you
> like best? Do you prefer the slow shambler, a.k.a. the classic Night
Zombie?
> Or do you like the fast, semi-inteligent corpse a la the Return of the
> Living Dead/House of the Dead (video game)? '
Hmm. Slow and creepy. I dig the inevitability of the romeroverse zombies. Also, it gives the players breathing room when they need it, IE, In the remake where the Leading Lady just RAN from them through the open fields.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds Over Mechanics
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:05:51 EDT
In a message dated 9/21/99 7:58:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkosub@erols.com
writes:<< That being the case, when I pick up a new game, I want something that's
going to give me what I need to make a story happen for myself and my
players. So... what's the scoop, Eden Guys? Give us some ideas about what
"All Flesh..." is. If I were to mosey up to the Eden Studios booth at a con
and ask, "So, what do I do with this game, besides whack zombies and re-play
'Dawn of the Dead,'" what would you say? >>
Ok put me on the soap box...
The game is about survival horror. We present in the mainbook 11 diffrent 'zombie" campaigns/genres. Each "deadworld" has a story behind it. Why is this world infested with zombies? How do you kill them? What kind of adventure do I run in these worlds?
Thus a GameMaster can choose a world then get his players together, tell them to either create characters from scratch, giving them a brief overview of the world or just allow them to pick and choose one of the many premade character archtypes given in the book.
In some of these "deadworlds", the players can start when the how world goes to hell (ala liek the begining of Night of the Living Dead) or they can play in a setting where it has been going on for months or even years and they have to find a way to stop it or adapt to it.
Now unlike various other RPGs of late where a set storyline is given to you (ie L5R, 7th Sea, or even Deadlands and Hell on Earth) You play a game setting and if everyone dies then you can start over again in a different setting. We present various "deadworlds" from a setting where Hitler raises an army of zombies to stop the invasion of Normandy and you play in that world where WWII hasn't ended and the Third Reich is controlled by intelligent zombies to a world where the Zombies are controlled by Zombie Lords and they fight for control of the planet to a setting where its the year 1000 and an evil nobleman has raised an army of the dead and taken over Paris and is beginning to creep inot neighboring countries. The key is the players don't know how or why the dead are here, unless the GM give them that inof in the beginning, and they must survive long enough to find out, and maybe even try ad stop it.
The game also presents a chapter called Anotomy of a Zombie, where you can "build" your own zombie and create you own setting.
Like most RPGs, a good game is made good by how well the Game Master present the material and the story to the players. If he's telling a good story and the players are enjoying themselves, then you have a successful product. We are taking what most gamers love.. zombies... and trying to present it in a manner where you can sit down and play the game and have a good time.
I hope this answers your question... <smile>
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
President-Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Plot Ideas sorta OT
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:26:20 –0500
*snip*
Wow, Gary. Do your coworkers know of you're thoughts?
I'm printing out a copy your msg for future ideas. Nice plot line.
-Guy
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Story Possibilities
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:15:15 EDT
In a message dated 9/20/99 7:19:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkosub@erols.com writes:
<< Basically, what about "campaign play?" What are some of the hooks either
present in the main book or being kicked around for supplements? And, for
those out there who (like me) want to play in this subgenre, what sort of
storylines are you looking at? >>
Future supplements of All Flesh will be specific 'Deadwords". Some will be the popular ones from the mainbook gone into more detail, other will be completely new ones.
One example from the mainbook is the World War II setting campaign, called Mein Zombie. Where Hitler uses his occult knowledge to raise and army of zombies to stop the Normandy invasion. We want to go deeper inot detail on this setting where players can play like Pulp Heroes in a world with Nazi undead.
The first campaign setting Sourcebook is called "Enter the Zombie". In this sourcebook, players PLAY undead martial arts masters in a John Woo meets Big Trouble in Little China style campaign settings.
We are looking for suggestions as well. What kind of Zombie storyline-genres that havent been done would you like to see?
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
President-Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Plot Ideas sorta OT
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:07:39 PDT
> Wow, Gary. Do your coworkers know of you're thoughts?
I hope not, I want to keep working here! =]
> I'm printing out a copy your msg for future ideas. Nice plot line.
>
> -Guy
Thanks for the compliment. I forgot one other tid-bit last time. The one that made me ill. =] Neonatal intensive care...or the Buffet. Imagine all these carts of helpless babies...ripe for the plucking by the shambling dead. Of course, this is where the staunchest fighting will probably take place as parents fight to defend their children. Or kill them to spare them from this world gone mad.
Also, could you imagine a Dr. Herbert West/Dr. Frankenstine(Day of the Dead) type setting up shop in a hospital, where all kinds of equipment and supplies are handy. As well as lots of shamblers. The players having to besiege the place to stop him, or finding him when they take shelter there.
Or good doctors trying to desperatly research the cause of the zombie plague for the same reasons. CAT scans, X-rays, fully equiped labs. And of course if it's a major reaserch/teaching hospital the military might just want to take over as well. This idea keeps growing on me. Have to chop it off soon and let it loose in the world. =]
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Story Possibilities
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:12:50 PDT
he popular ones from the mainbook gone into more detail, other will be
completely new ones.
One example from the mainbook is the World War II setting campaign, called
Mein Zombie. Where Hitler uses his occult knowledge to raise and army of
zombies to stop the Normandy invasion. We want to go deeper inot detail on
this setting where players can play like Pulp Heroes in a world with Nazi
undead.
Sounds tre' cool. It sounds like it could easily cross over with DELTA GREEN from Pagan Publishing, with their Karotechia(sp)which is the evil occult Nazis who do all kinds of evil, including raising the dead.
The first campaign setting Sourcebook is called "Enter the Zombie". In this
sourcebook, players PLAY undead martial arts masters in a John Woo meets
Big
Trouble in Little China style campaign settings.
That's warped. I love it! Cant wait to see it.
We are looking for suggestions as well. What kind of Zombie
storyline-genres
that havent been done would you like to see?
Well, I made my pitch. HOSPITAL FOOD, unless anyone else has a better title idea. DR. ZOMBIE perhaps? CODE DEAD? Anyone?
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silence. POLL TIME
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:22:38 PDT
The dates I have marked on my calender for RE3 is November 11th and
Vernoina
January 16th. Dont forget Dino Crisis arrives in 24 hours.... I know after
I
get that game Im gonna wanna do a zombie-Jurassik Park campaign setting. I
can see it know... an expierment to use the DNA of dino eggs found brings
them back to life but they slowly deteriorate into giant dino-zombies!
This makes me think of another question (and now I'll never get the vision of a giant, rotting zombie T-rex outta my head now. Thanks!) that I had. Are there going to be just zombies, or are there going to be other, similar creatures, a la Resident Evil, which had the Hiunters, Lickers, Birkin, Plant Creatures, just to name a few? There are all kinds of zombie-types that could be done (zombie sharks and dogs, to keep with the RE example), but would people want to see other non-zombie monsters, or would that break too much out of the mold? How far do you want to streach the genre, before it becomes just another monster game?
I think the soulution would be to keep any other monster types closely related the way RE did, and always keep lots of zombies on hand so they stay the main focus. Personally, I think that just human zombies might get a bit dull after a while, given player complancy, if the GM doesn't stay on his toes.
And I had to crack open RE2 last night and played to the wee hours after finding this game. Can't wait for Nemisis...
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:25:41 PDT
> > Here's a question for my fellow zombie-philes. What flavor of zombie do
> you
> > like best? Do you prefer the slow shambler, a.k.a. the classic Night
> Zombie?
> > Or do you like the fast, semi-inteligent corpse a la the Return of the
> > Living Dead/House of the Dead (video game)? '
> Hmm. Slow and creepy. I dig the inevitability of the romeroverse zombies.
> Also, it gives the players breathing room when they need it, IE, In the
> remake where the Leading Lady just RAN from them through the open fields.
Yea...gotta love that. I esp. love when she's holding the one with the doll at bay by poking it in the head with her gun, and you can *see* the realization on her face as the desperation of it all sinks in...Who here doesn't want one of these moments in their campagin?
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:25:33 -0400
Everyone planning to play this game really needs to check out these two
links;
http://www.homepageofthedead.com/fiction/fict74.html &
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lm_miller/fiction/report.htm
...as well as the site I found them on, the Homepage of the Dead;
http://www.homepageofthedead.com/
There's a mine of fan-fic set in Romero's "Dead" world, some of it pretty good (and some of it awful, it has to be said), but there are plenty of ideas for games here.
cheers,
Doctor TOC
--
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
UIN # 4814586
URL:
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silence. POLL TIME
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:11:08 EDT
In a message dated 9/22/99 5:23:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gm1970@hotmail.com writes:
<< This makes me think of another question (and now I'll never get the vision
of a giant, rotting zombie T-rex outta my head now. Thanks!) that I had. Are
there going to be just zombies, or are there going to be other, similar
creatures, a la Resident Evil, which had the Hiunters, Lickers, Birkin,
Plant Creatures, just to name a few? There are all kinds of zombie-types
that could be done (zombie sharks and dogs, to keep with the RE example),
but would people want to see other non-zombie monsters, or would that break
too much out of the mold? How far do you want to streach the genre, before
it becomes just another monster game? >>
We have stats for Zomibe dogs, Zombie rats and even a zombie cow in the basic rulebook. But as for monsters, we didnt go too far with it in the mainbook. In future supplements yes... plus the game is compatiable with WitchCraft and Armageddon so you will be able to use creatures presented in both of those games.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Plot Ideas
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:53:03 PDT
Hi all again.
I justy went on my rounds here at work, where I check all the laptops and
hand-held units in some of the hospital (details provided if asked for) and
a whole slew of ideas kept pouring through my head as I walked around a
bit,
all centered on walking dead in the hospital.
::SNIP::
What think you all?
GAry M, minor epot
Great Idea!!!! Please make sourcebook!!! Request from someone who likes a bit of "realism" and accuracy in my games. Have people that know what theire talking about write the sourcebooks!
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:01:47 PDT
Hello again!
Here's a question for my fellow zombie-philes. What flavor of zombie do you
like best? Do you prefer the slow shambler, a.k.a. the classic Night
Zombie?
Or do you like the fast, semi-inteligent corpse a la the Return of the
Living Dead/House of the Dead (video game)? '
::SNIP::
I think it takes all kinds to make a story enjoyable and variated, including different zombies. What makes them different, depends on the source of their "zombieness" (new word anyone). In RE I and II there was a virus, and apparently the amount of exposure to the virus had some impact on speed, intelligence, power level etc. When it comes down the the Relentless dead, they already have motivation, and should act accordingly. Zombies raised by magic, traditionaly are stupid and slow, but hey, rules are meant to be broken.
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:51:50 -0400
Ronald Larsen wrote:
> >There's a mine of fan-fic set in Romero's "Dead" world, some of it
> >pretty good (and some of it awful, it has to be said), but there are
> >plenty of ideas for games here.
> >
> Thanks for the links. Cool HP BTW. Like your style...
Thank you :-)
Relevant to one of the other recent threads, check out the short story "ER of the Dead", which features a similar "baby buffet" scene to the one being discussed. Great minds and all that... There's also an off short tale called "The Eternal Reich". Misleading title, but a nice implied reason for the dead to rise.
BTW, anyone out there a reader of the old comics series "Deadworld"? Apart from having some great storytelling and disturbing art, it introduced the idea of "King" Zombies, flesh-eaters of more than human intelligence, capable of directing the actions of the other shamblers. Nasty :-)
Doctor TOC
--
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
UIN # 4814586
URL: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:57:06 EDT
In a message dated 9/23/99 8:53:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
otherchris@erols.com writes:
<< BTW, anyone out there a reader of the old comics series "Deadworld"?
Apart from having some great storytelling and disturbing art, it
introduced the idea of "King" Zombies, flesh-eaters of more than human
intelligence, capable of directing the actions of the other shamblers.
Nasty :-) >>
OH YES... Deadworld is still one of my favorite comic series of all times. I still have a few of the original issues plus a Nude cover version of the tradepaper bac (even though its falling apart from reading it every once and a while).
Highly recommended reading if you can find it everyone.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Resident Evil 3 Demo Disk
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:52:19 EDT
Ok - Just picked up Dino Crisis... played ofr an hour-- it was cool- then I said to my self - "let me check out the RE3 demo"...
....
....
OH MY GAWD!
The movie of the zombie outbreak beginning in Raccoon City "running" down the street.. cops placing up road blocks, SWAT teams showing up and shooting at the oncoming hoarde... bullets tearing threw them.. and they keep coming...over running the roadblocks is AMAZING!!!
...and what sucks is the game is still a month and half away! NOOOoooooo!
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:17:19 -0400
> Everyone planning to play this game really needs to check out these...
> links;
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lm_miller/fiction/report.htm
Ah, yes, the "ALOMAL-137" report. Very well-written piece of work, to be sure, though I hesitate to say that the living dead "infection" would, in fact, wipe out the living population. True, "Day of the Dead" makes the suggestion that humanity is being wiped out, but there's no tangible evidence to suggest this is so. Cities on the Florida coastline abandoned? Hardly surprising, as they'd be exposed to the elements and poorly-defensible. And we can't forget that "Dawn of the Dead" states that the living populations have been withdrawn from the cities.
> There's a mine of fan-fic set in Romero's "Dead" world, some of it
> pretty good (and some of it awful, it has to be said), but there are
> plenty of ideas for games here.
You're right about the uneven nature of the fanfiction available. The best "Dead" fiction has appeared in the two "Book of the Dead" collections, of course, and maybe it's having such big guns to run up against that has caused the dearth of quality fanfic. Or maybe it's because Romero's films have established the image so indelibly in our minds that it's difficult to think "outside the box" of a handful of humans defending themselves in a structure of some sort. So many of the fanfics seem to operate on these same lines.
Still, it's nice when the really creative writers get going... .
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Story Possibilities
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:23:33 -0400
> Future supplements of All Flesh will be specific 'Deadwor[l]ds". Some will be
> the popular ones from the mainbook gone into more detail, other will be
> completely new ones.
This is good, as I have a proposal cooking in my fevered imagination as we speak. I'll wait until I have a copy of the main rules in my hands before I pull it all into manageable form. In a subgenre like this one, variety is going to be the key to retaining players, so popping out the occasional new idea will go a long way toward keeping a weekly "All Flesh" game fresh.
> We are looking for suggestions as well. What kind of Zombie storyline-genres
> that havent been done would you like to see?
One can't ignore the "serious" side of zombie play, of course. Kung Fu and pulp zombies are great, but I've always tended to the darkness. Zombies are damned scary, for one, and as much as I like watching Ash goof on the baddies in the "Evil Dead" films, I always come back to the creepy films, such as "Dawn of the Dead."
I would suggest looking at nontraditional settings (outside of the modern, for example) that fit well with the quasi-mystical nature of the Romero-style "living dead." When the Wild West first began to be mined for its horror potential, the fit was appropriate, though strange and new. These are the sorts of connections one must search for, the kind of thing that engages the "creep" button.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Statement
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:41:02 -0400
> > If I were to mosey up to the Eden Studios booth at a con
> > and ask, "So, what do I do with this game, besides whack zombies and re-play
> > 'Dawn of the Dead,'" what would you say?
> Ok put me on the soap box...
>
> The game is about survival horror. We present in the mainbook 11 diffrent
> 'zombie" campaigns/genres. Each "deadworld" has a story behind it. Why is
> this world infested with zombies? How do you kill them? What kind of
> adventure do I run in these worlds?
<snip>
> Like most RPGs, a good game is made good by how well the Game Master present
> the material and the story to the players. If he's telling a good story and
> the players are enjoying themselves, then you have a successful product. We
> are taking what most gamers love.. zombies... and trying to present it in a
> manner where you can sit down and play the game and have a good time.
>
> I hope this answers your question... <smile>
Yes and no. ::smile::
You did a good job of telling me what the book will contain and I see there are some story seeds and character types in the WWII setting that might give rise to stories that aren't dominated by zombies, but if I were asking the question (which I am) and you answered it (as you did), I'd still wonder what the game's "vision" was.
I'll give you an example of a game that is wildly uneven, but has heart, at the very least: "Unknown Armies." Though I feel the book is overful with information that isn't fleshed out, it took what I felt was a remarkable step and flat-out told the potential gamer what the designers were thinking of, game-wise, when they began to design that puppy. They described the sorts of adventures they envisioned, what sorts of characters they thought were appropriate, and so on.
The concept of putting this info IN THE BOOK was so obvious, I'm surprised no one came up with it sooner, actually. It cut the "what the heck IS this?" factor, often present in less easily quantifiable games, down to a manageable level and though the rest of the game lacked the coherence of that initial section, it was a great way to begin your experience with the game.
Anyway, I have a point.
So, when I ask what the game's about, beyond whacking zombies, what I really want to know is what the designers' vision for the game was when the work done. Because, really, what sort of lifespan will a game have if it's merely variations on "Biohazard" and/or "Zombie 2?" What makes this roleplaying game different from a video game or a board game where zombies get whacked? In short, what's the vision that gives the game and its myriad settings depth?
This is not to say that whacking zombies isn't a hoot, cos it is. And zombies are scary critters, too, so playing a game where the object is to scare the bejesus out one's players is a noble cause, as well, but is there a continuity of purpose behind the design that lends itself to extended play? If I tell my players, "Okay, this week we're going to start an 'All Flesh' campaign," is there depth enough (in your opinion) in the subgenre to keep those same players coming back for more, say, six months to a year later, or longer?
Sure, the guy/gal running the game has to have creativity and an ability with a playing group, or even a "Top Secret" game would fall apart in their hands, but "Top Secret" had a mountain of possibilities attached to it. What does "All Flesh" bring to the fight that makes it a long-runner?
Whew, that ended up being a bit more lengthy than I expected. :)
To paraphrase someone else on the list, I'm not trying to "slam" or "dig" anyone here, but I like to know whether the game I'm buying is supported with passion and with an eye toward long-term playability, because that's the difference between "Vampire: The Masquerade" and "Chill."
From: "James Kosub, Jr." <jkosub@erols.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Death Toll
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:46:27 -0400
This is the original post I made in a thread on alt.cult-movies.zombies (remember, the newsgroup needs people to post there!), but I thought I'd address the question here, as well.
DAWN OF THE DEAD can be reasonably placed, time-wise, in the year/s when it was made, 1977-78. DAY OF THE DEAD is a true sequel (much more so than DAWN was to NIGHT), in that it obviously traces the sequence of events begun in DAWN all the way through to 1985. So, we're looking at seven years of increasing zombification, at least on the North American continent.
At any rate, in DAY we see a small portion of Florida is good and deserted, as well as being overrun by zombies. No one's within range of the cruddy radio set-up to which our heroes have access, but as was pointed out, this doesn't mean there aren't any people with which to communicate.
Efforts were being made during DAWN to withdraw the living population into a zone wherein they could be adequately defended, so this could mean that whole towns and cities were left abandoned in the evacuation. After seven years, with an increasingly hungry and certainly numerous horde of zombies to contend with, these new, barricaded settlements could still be out there, right? Fighting the good fight, and all that.
This isn't too far-fetched an idea. Better-armed and organized fortifications could do quite well against the zombie horde. Peter, Roger, Fran and Stephen could have lasted a lot longer in their area in DAWN if they hadn't gotten so confident with that helicopter. The outfit in DAY weren't doing too badly after seven years, either, if you exclude the lethal levels of cabin fever everyone suffered.
So the question is, how massive a death toll are we looking at? And if we were to pursue the timeline further (to 1999, perhaps?), could the living population bounce back from such massive losses? Given that the population of the United States alone is over 273 million people, it would take a heckuva lot of dead bodies to deplete the gene pool to dangerous levels. More dead than there seem to be in DAWN or DAY. All we see are the empty streets, but not oodles and oodles of zombies corresponding to the original population.
-------------------
James on the Web (http://members.tripod.com/~jkosub/)
@ the Movies (http://members.tripod.com/~jkosub/movies/)
"Pray as if everything depended on God;
act as if everything depended on you.
-----------
Who rise from prayer better persons,
Their prayer is answered."
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:43:23 -0400
> Here's a question for my fellow zombie-philes. What flavor of zombie do
you
> like best? Do you prefer the slow shambler, a.k.a. the classic Night
Zombie?
> Or do you like the fast, semi-inteligent corpse a la the Return of the
> Living Dead/House of the Dead (video game)? '
Obviously, I'm a mark for George Romero, so I'm partial to the stupid, slow and implacable form of the flesh-eating zombie. And even though I bow to the master, I was turned off by Bub in "Day," due to his goofy semi-intelligence. Zombies should be cunning, but never anything that's recognizably "smart."
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] More game info plez? was:POLL TIME
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:46:31 PDT
<<Snip>>
> And the fact that my playtest pack for All Flesh... hasn't come yet
> doesn't make things any easier.
Playtest pack? Que es? I'd like to see that...
But how about this, oh Zombie Lord, as a counter-proposition. The game (hopefully) hits us in October. Next month (gotta have it). I think that all of us here are going to by the game, so a playtest pack for most of us would be moot at this point. I know that I don't just join a mailing list for the heck of it, it's gotta grab me and be something I'm really interested in. (I'm only on here and the DELTA GREEN list, for those playing the home game). I think its safe to say that the other people on this list are going to purchase this game.
So with this in mind, how about giving us some details on the game mechanics. How do the skills work? What are the stats? Brief synopsis on combat? I don't think that getting any of this info will discourage anyone from buying the game.
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:57:07 PDT
<< BTW, anyone out there a reader of the old comics series "Deadworld"?
Apart from having some great storytelling and disturbing art, it
introduced the idea of "King" Zombies, flesh-eaters of more than human
intelligence, capable of directing the actions of the other shamblers.
Nasty :-) >>
OH YES... Deadworld is still one of my favorite comic series of all times. I
still have a few of the original issues plus a Nude cover version of the
tradepaper bac (even though its falling apart from reading it every once and a while).
Highly recommended reading if you can find it everyone.
Ok, how about a new mailing list project: Reccomended Movies, Books, Comics, Games and Web Pages?
Here are the first few, off the top of my head. Add more at your discression.
Movies:
The Dead Trilogy, by the master, Mr. Romero
The Evil Dead Trinlogy, by Sam Rami
Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things
Return of the Living Dead Trilogy (even if I don't like #3 so much)
White Zombie
Comics:
Deadworld
Games:
Resident Evil 1 & 2
Deadlands
Web Pages:
http://www.homepageofthedead.com/fiction/fict74.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lm_miller/fiction/report.htm
http://www.homepageofthedead.com/
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:58:17 PDT
Doh, I forgot books:
Book of the Dead 1 & 2, edited by Skip & Spector
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] long-term playability. was:Story Possibilities
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:13:34 PDT
<<Snip>>
In a subgenre like this one, variety is
going to be the key to retaining players, so popping out the occasional new
idea will go a long way toward keeping a weekly "All Flesh" game fresh.
My two cents here. I think the key to his is going to be keeping things focused on the characters, as opposed to "ok, this week, we hide from zombies in lower Atlanta. Next week, the sewers of outter Atlanta." There needs to be a focus on what the characters have to do to cope with an survive in this world gone mad. What sacrifices will they make? Do they hide, or take a more pro-active stance and try to find a way to put the dead back in their graves. Otherwise is just becomes a series of one shots. When I run, I think I'm going to have the campagin start befor the dead walk, because I think it would be easier for the players to identify with their characters if they do a few "this is normal life, what we'd like the world to get back to" type sessions. Make it a personal horror. That's what Romero did with "Night".
This, of course, could change once I get my grubby hands on my book and see the really cool Deadworlds that we're being given to play with. =]
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:24:15 PDT
<<Snip>>
And even though I bow to
the master, I was turned off by Bub in "Day," due to his goofy
semi-intelligence. Zombies should be cunning, but never anything that's
recognizably "smart."
I've been thinking about this and a few related bits. I agree that they should not be smart, or too aware of potental danger (hilicopter roters) but cunning is good. Smart enough to open doors, how about locks or elevators? Thank goodness so many doors are "electric eye" automatic these days. ;>
How about their senses, tho? They can hear, and can tell noise from speach, but how good is their eyesight? Is it like cateracts? Do they have some mutant form of ESP that lets them "track" so well? Remember all the times someone would pass near their vacinity and would arch their heads towars the people, then start after them, even through doors and up/down staris. (Side note, scientist studying the dead to find a way to manifest psychic abilities in the living. Put that in the hopspital). Does whatever turned them deter decay in any way, whch is why they shamble for so long? How long/what kinds of memories stay, and why? (The guy breaking down the false wall in "Dawn", knowing there was a meal up there.)
Thoughts from the group?
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
From: Doctor TOC <otherchris@erols.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Source of inspiration
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:39:54 -0400
g. m. wrote:
>
> Comics:
> Deadworld
There are also the Resident Evil comics (though they're nothing special. There are also the Evil Ernie comics (OTT but fun) and the Zombie War series.
> Games:
> Resident Evil 1 & 2
> Deadlands
House of the Dead (never played it, but it had shamblers in IIRC)
Books:
The Dead, by Mark Rogers (Fun book. The Final Judgement takes place, the righteous are swept up in the Rapture, and the Dead rise, led by a being known as Legion. The opening sequence is very similar to the deeply creepy setting fiction in the "The End" RPG)
Doctor TOC
--
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
UIN # 4814586
URL: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] RE Relevance was:POLL TIME
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:33:01 EDT
In a message dated 9/24/99 11:07:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gm1970@hotmail.com writes:
> How about we nix the "I got the gun/killed the monster" unless we can
> sustain it with a good All Flesh relevence? (I know, pots and kettles and
> all that.) =]
Here's something I'd like to see for the RPG: A damage chart that you roll on whenever you shoot a zombie, and different ones for each class of weapon (handgun, shotgun, ect). What you roll would be what happens to the zombie. So there'd be an option for "Headshot" another for "Blown in Half, torso starts crawling towards nearest human", ect.
-Twist
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:38:21 EDT
In a message dated 9/24/99 10:25:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gm1970@hotmail.com writes:
> How
> long/what kinds of memories stay, and why? (The guy breaking down the false
> wall in "Dawn", knowing there was a meal up there.)
An interesting thing is that the Flyboy also closed the doors against the
advancing zombie horde. Something I never really understood, since he lead them there.
-Twist
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Memories
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:32:57 -0400
> > How
> > long/what kinds of memories stay, and why? (The guy breaking down the false
> > wall in "Dawn", knowing there was a meal up there.)
>
> An interesting thing is that the Flyboy also closed the doors against the
> advancing zombie horde. Something I never really understood, since he lead
> them there.
Habit, the same as the habit that brought him back to the room. The fact there MAY have been food there probably didn't cross his mind -- or what was left of it, I should say -- though the magnetism of the place, similar to that of the mall itself for all the other zombies, drew him inexorably.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] RE Relevance was:POLL TIME
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:37:07 -0400
> Here's something I'd like to see for the RPG: A damage chart that you roll
> on whenever you shoot a zombie, and different ones for each class of weapon
> (handgun, shotgun, e[tc.]). What you roll would be what happens to the zombie.
> So there'd be an option for "Headshot" another for "Blown in Half, torso
> starts crawling towards nearest human", e[tc].
Probably the worst thing in any set up roleplaying rules is a "hit location" table. "Top Secret" took this to ludicrous levels with the "Top Secret Companion," with tables for how a person might spin or if they dropped their weapon. A huge waste of time and a dice-rolling crutch for the person running the game.
Want brains and blood everywhere? When a player takes the shot, in the words of Jean-Luc Picard: "Make it so." A sidebar with a whole bunch of gruesome ideas for weapon effects would be a great idea, if only to grease the slide of the person running the game's imagination, but a table that one rolls upon sucks up too much time and stunts creativity in the long run.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] More Game Info, Please?
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:08:17 -0400
> > I think its safe to say that the other people on this list are going
> > to purchase this game.
>
> No, we're not. As I said before, thirty bucks is way too much for me to shell out for a
> game which could be easily done in GURPS (or most any other system) with a little GM
> planning. Some gamers such as myself wil[l] need some convincing in the form of a
> demo before we'll buy.
Again, all the more reason to hear the vision statement (renamed "Zombie Statement" in previous notes) of the design team/designer. Setting material is going to be varied, that much I got from the sort-of answer that was given before. If it's deep enough, buying the game would be worth it in order that the book may be strip-mined for ideas, then left to bleach in the sun like a skeleton at the edge of Death Valley. However, what compels players is vision, coupled with good material.
I used the comparison between "Vampire: The Masquerade" and "Chill" last time. Personally, I think both of these games are lacking, but which one (on the surface) would be the more fun to play for an extended period of time? The one with essentially only vampires or the one with all the assorted ghosties and ghoulies. And you can pick your favorite version of "Chill" for this example. Even the cruddy Pacesetter release.
At the outside, one would think "Chill" has the advantage. More variety means more fun, right? However, it's "Vampire" that has captured the imaginations (and dollars) of a whole stack o' fans. Why? Because "Vampire" had a vision. The designers knew exactly what they wanted to get out of this gaming experience and, as a result, they were able to fashion something that had a great deal of depth.
What worries me is that an "All Flesh" game would boil down to variations on the same theme: 1) zombies, 2) find out how to kill zombies, and 3) kill zombies. This is not enough to sustain a ROLEPLAYING game for any length of time. It's fine for video games and board games, because depth isn't necessarily the driving force (eye-candy, reflex-practice and honing a strategy are). Will players find the vision in "All Flesh" enough to keep a game going for six months? For a year? Two years?
Asking this question is an essential part of any potential roleplaying purchase. I can claim "All Flesh" as a tax deduction, but Mr. Average Joe isn't able to do that. When he spends his thirty bucks, it's spent. Once upon a time, it was enough to slap a setting or two into a game and sell it to people (most releases by FGU come to mind), but no longer, especially with prices rising to sky-high levels.
The fact is, worlds of the "dead" can be done without a new product. I, myself, ran a very well-received zombie game via PBeM and used nothing for reference except my imagination and the disgusting visions contained in zombie films over the last thirty years. Hell, I even used SLUG as my game system, which is available for free, free, FREE! on the WWW. And anyone who wanted could do the same.
So, when the Man comes knocking, looking for some answers, they need to be there.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Queries
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:18:03 -0400
> How about their senses, tho[ugh]? They can hear, and can tell noise from spe[e]ch,
> but how good is their eyesight? Is it like cat[a]racts? Do they have some
> mutant form of ESP that lets them "track" so well?
It's pretty obvious from "Dawn" that zombies can instantly tell living from dead flesh, as well as normal dead flesh from reanimated dead flesh, though the range must be fairly close.
I'll refer you to the situation wherein Stephen dies. You have a whole stack o' zombies clawing at the elevator, but the instant the doors part, they disperse, because he's dead and turned. They know immediately, so they have to have some sort of -- I hesistate to use the word "extrasensory," but it's the only game in town -- perception concerning their primary food source.
Of course, we have to remember that no matter how sharp their senses are, they still have to contend with their awful reaction time. "Oh, hey, it's a living person! Got to turn... got to turn... slowly... slowly... okay, now I'm gonna get 'em!"
> Does whatever turned
> them deter decay in any way, whch is why they shamble for so long?
According to "Day of the Dead," yes. Dr. Logan makes the comment that putrefecation is slowed to the point that it may take twenty to thirty years before the zombie population decays to "safe" levels.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Long-Term Playability
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:26:46 -0400
> I think the key to [t]his is going to be keeping things
> focused on the characters, as opposed to "ok, this week, we hide from
> zombies in lower Atlanta. Next week, the sewers of outter Atlanta." ...
> Otherwise [this] is just becomes a series of one shots.
Exactly. Which is why it's good to hear there's some handle on the "Mein Zombie" setting, at least. Once the designers have formulated a vision that incorporates what a game or game setting is FOR, then you have a viable product on your hands. For example, I seriously doubt that the folks at Eden Studios said, when "Conspiracy X" was initially floated, said, "Hey, let's have an 'X-Files' game that's exactly like the 'X-Files,' with nothing new or interesting to add to the whole thing. People will buy that, cos they like the show, and then we can stick them by repeating the same motifs, over and over again."
Having a handle on what's different in a game (in this case, the people, the places and events), as opposed to the common factor (zombies), will make a successful game. Focusing on the people is a good idea, but you better make darned sure they have something besides "hide, run, kill" to do, or it will degenerate and, before you know it, there'll be copies of "All Flesh" collecting dust on shelves in homes AND stores.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] The Flesh Vision (re:Zombie Statement)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:24:16 EDT
What is the "vision" I have of All Flesh when I created the concept....
A year ago when I was sitting on my coach playing Resident Evil 2, I said to myself... "you know what would be cool...a campaign set in Conspiracy X that was just like the storyline in RE2". Looking over my ConX books I thought about it long and hard. Then I started thinking, well I could use the ConX system but the material for Zombies just isnt there.. I would have to make it up- design it myself. Then I though, why isnt there a game set for playing RE2 or Dawn of the Dead. Granted, any system out there could be adapted and used to play this genre, but so could ANY idea someone has for an RPG So in effect you are saying any new RPG that comes out should bow to GURPS, CoC or Vampire since they came first ... why not play Shadowrun with the AD&D game system. AD&D had orcs and magic... all Id have to do is come up with the cyber rules, new character types and monsters. OR I could just buy the Shadowrun rulebook with all the material done. So I began writing down what Id like toss in a Zombie related roleplaying game.
The vision I began scribbling down for All Flesh was trying to capture the essense of Survival Horror, a name given to the Zombie genre since Resident Evil. but I also didnt want to have a set campaign world. There are hundreds of Zombie related movies out there and I wanted a game where players could adapt any of these worlds and sit down and play in that world. How many times have you watched a movie and said " That'd be cool to play". One of the main visions in the design was to use a game system that was adaptable in being able to play from a fantasy-medevil setting to modern day to futuristic. That is why I choosed to use the Unisystem game mechanics created by CJ Carella for his WitchCraft and Armageddon RPGs. Thus this book can use supplement material from those two games to add to the All Flesh expereince.
You ask me..." If I tell my players, "Okay, this week we're going to start an 'All Flesh' campaign," is there depth enough (in your opinion) in the subgenre to keep those same players coming back for more, say, six months to a year later, or longer?"
I say Storyline ... In the mainbook we present 11 completely campaign settings for All Flesh. Each with 2-3 scenario plots to give ideas on how to play a campaign in that setting. Here's a taste:
Rise of the Walking Dead
Basically this is the Ramero-style, basic Zombie genre (Dawn fo the Dead, etc)
PHADE to Black
PHADE is a virus, much like AIDS a sexualy transmitted disease, where like AIDs the PHADE virus spreads across the world where people who die of the virus come back from the dead.
Grave Impact
An incoming comet is destoyed in near orbit of Earth and the irradiated pieces fall to Earth awaking an ancient evil. The only way to stop the dead is buring them and in the early days of the infestation, many cities were razed due to this. Safe zones are created and Martial law is placed across the country.
Sacred Soil
You can screw with nature for so long before she fights back. Experimental fertilizer from OrganoCore causes the dead to rise.
They Came From Beyond
An alien race from beyond uses the dead as hosts as they jump from world to world like locust.
Mein Zombie
The before mentioned WWII setting where Hitler raises the dead to stop DDay and prolong the war.
After the Bomb
After WWIII, and whent he dust settles humanity trys to rebuild itself but the old cities are infested with walking mutated dead.
Dead at 1000
An evil Venetian nobleman uses the black arts to raise an army of the dead in 990AD to take over Paris and soont he world.
Until the Ending of the World
When God decides the world is done stewing in its own sin it will be time to pull the plug and start over again. God intends for this final end to be an object lesson for those who dwell in the next world. you must side with Good or Evil in the last days of the Judgement.
Rise of the Zombie Lords
Intelligent Zombies lead there armies against mankind.
Rebirth Into Death
You awake as a zombie... will you succumb to the hunger or find a way around it.
Now with these basic ideas, you could come up with a ton of Roleplaying sessions that dont have to involve just shooting zombies all night long. I can see players playing in one setting for months before finding a "cure" or stopping the menace. And if all else fails, when the storyline is done, then they can go to another, diffrent setting.
So what we are trying to do is create a product that caters to the zombie lover. It gives him all the material in one place- with little work for him to do. I dont argue with you that you could download a free game system off the net, spend hours or days creating your own worlds, or taking another games system out there that you like and doing all the above too but what we are trying to create is a place where all this is done for you with a product that will support this genre and niche exclusively.
And what will make this product stick out? Presentation. We hope to make an attractive product visually as well as creative in depth material to keep the reader wanting more or just to get his own creative juices steaming so he can create storys that he and his players will enjoy for months and we hope years.
Granted why not spend $50 and play Resident Evil. Well in RE can you play someone touch with powers from God to aid you in stopping the undead? Can you sit down with a group of friends and fight off zombies while trying to find out why the government is doing this to a small town in the midwest? But for $30 Im sure yoiu can get more hours of enjoyment in All Flesh with a group of friends than by yourself for $50.
I don't know if I have answered your question on Vision. But in this forum I'd like to do my best to give you and others what they want from All Flesh. Tell us what you want from All Flesh and Eden will deliver, or do our best to deliver. We have been very successful with our Conspiracy X line giving the Conspiracy/"X-Files" genre-style gaming a full line of material to feed off of. So Id like to give the survival horror genre, not necessarly the horror genre but SURVIVAL horror some new blood. Im not asking you to buy All Flesh, but at least give it a look. We have put a lot of time and effort in this game and I for one am proud with the (almost) final product (not till its in my hands next month will I sit an smile).
Thanks.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] The Flesh Vision
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:16:36 -0400
Now that reply was more of what I had in mind. Less "Table of Contents" and more "Vision Statement."
> Granted why not spend $50 and play Resident Evil. Well in RE can you play
> someone touch with powers from God to aid you in stopping the undead? Can
> you sit down with a group of friends and fight off zombies while trying to
> find out why the government is doing this to a small town in the midwest? But
> for $30 Im sure yoiu can get more hours of enjoyment in All Flesh with a
> group of friends than by yourself for $50.
This is very true, and by outlining what you have in your note, you finally pointed out the difference between hours and hours of doing basically the same thing (run, shoot, kill) and roleplaying, and that's what I wanted when I posed the question in the first place, "What does one DO with this game, besides whack zombies and re-play 'Dawn of the Dead.'"
I've been around the block with RPGs, ever since I begged my favorite aunt, who spoiled me rotten, for those litte, ugly TSR books that used to comprise the original D&D. Sure, the mechanics sucked eggs and were almost incomprehensible, but I instinctively grasped the idea of "interactive storytelling," with all its possibilities. Which is to say that I know very well that an RPG is a better entertainment investment than any PSX title. The real question was whether "All Flesh" was going to be a real RPG, or simply a pen-and-paper "Resident Evil."
Now we have the answer, or most of it. The rest will come with the book, in the mail.
> Im not asking you to buy All Flesh,
> but at least give it a look.
Not to worry, you have my $30, at least. What was of concern to me was whether Eden had put together a real game, or had given us something in the old tradition of FGU.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie types
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:14:11 PDT
>> How
>> long/what kinds of memories stay, and why? (The guy breaking down the false
>> wall in "Dawn", knowing there was a meal up there.)
> An interesting thing is that the Flyboy also closed the doors against the
> advancing zombie horde. Something I never really understood, since he lead
> them there.
Habit, perhaps? "Have to keep the zombies out...where's my meal?" or selfishness perhaps? "My friends, my meal."
Definatly something to ponder for the All Flesh dead-onez
(yes, I've been with Evil Ernie since he was published bt Malibu.)
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] RE Relevance was:POLL TIME
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:18:00 PDT
<SNIP>
> Probably the worst thing in any set up roleplaying rules is a "hit
> location" table.
Can't say I completly agree. I like to have a simple Hit Location chart, but I hardly use them. If there isn't one, I can just use the one I know from HERO. I only tend to really use them if the players wants to call their shots
> Want brains and blood everywhere? When a player takes the shot, in the
> words of Jean-Luc Picard: "Make it so." A sidebar with a whole bunch of
> gruesome ideas for weapon effects would be a great idea, if only to grease
> the slide of the person running the game's imagination, but a table that one
> rolls upon sucks up too much time and stunts creativity in the long run.
I agree. A few vivid discriptions would be very cool, and should be pretty simple to "hack" out. =]
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Queries
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:28:10 PDT
<SNIP>
> It's pretty obvious from "Dawn" that zombies can instantly tell living from
> dead flesh, as well as normal dead flesh from reanimated dead flesh, though
> the range must be fairly close.
The do seam to be "dead" on at finding living flesh. Remember that the ones on the other side of the mall would turn and start after the characters the second they came onto the floor with them. The range, to me, looked to be about 50 or so yards, but that was a radius. The ones on the ground floor or above would come shamble towards them as well.
> I'll refer you to the situation wherein Stephen dies. You have a whole
> stack o' zombies clawing at the elevator, but the instant the doors part,
> they disperse, because he's dead and turned. They know immediately, so they
> have to have some sort of -- I hesistate to use the word "extrasensory," but
> it's the only game in town -- perception concerning their primary food source.
Yep. They pawed and clawed at the doors, remembering that there was good meat through the doors once, and *stuck around for it*, knowing/rembering that elevator doors open automaticly.
<SNIP>
> Does whatever turned
> them deter decay in any way, whch is why they shamble for so long?
> According to "Day of the Dead," yes. Dr. Logan makes the comment that
> putrefecation is slowed to the point that it may take twenty to thirty years
> before the zombie population decays to "safe" levels.
Forgot that part. Have to drag my tapes out and watch 'em again.
.PS: OB RE Reference. Got Dino Crisis today. The Demo of RE3 was worth the price of admission. The game looks cool, and the opening movie that our great Zombie Lord spoke of is a must-see for All Flesh/Zombie fans. Dino Crisis is good too.
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] The Flesh Vision (re:Zombie Statement)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:53:55 PDT
> What is the "vision" I have of All Flesh when I created the concept....
<SNIP>
> why not play Shadowrun with the AD&D game
> system. AD&D had orcs and magic... all Id have to do is come up with the
> cyber rules, new character types and monsters. OR I could just buy the
> Shadowrun rulebook with all the material done. So I began writing down what
> Id like toss in a Zombie related roleplaying game.
Cool. You have to do this with some genres/games IMHO. Shadowrun would not be the same with the D&D setting, or vis-versa. The system is, for most games, part and parcel of the "feel" of some games. Decking in SR being the best example off the top of my head for system/genre synergy
For example: I own over a half-dozen GURPS suppliments, but I've only played the system about 3 times. But they are great to strip-mine for ideas. Part of why I'm going to get All Flesh is to mine the ideas, but I'm hoping the system will shamble to my liking and I use it. Otherwise, I'll more than likely use Hero. Someone used the example of Vampire having a unique vision, which is why it holds up...but does't that mean that it would still interest you, which is why GURPS: V:TM was able to be published. There are rabid GURPS players who will use no other system and will convert everything else to it. My point (finally, I hear you think) is that if the world/idea is good, or fills our nich/genre that we want/need/crave, gamers will still buy it, strip out the system if they don't like it, or keep it if it fits. If you're a zombie fan, All Flesh is more than likely going to appeal, to at least read. I can't think of any other game that fills this nice, in a pen/paper RPG.
> The vision I began scribbling down for All Flesh was trying to capture the
> essense of Survival Horror, a name given to the Zombie genre since Resident
> Evil. but I also didnt want to have a set campaign world.
<SNIP>
> I say Storyline ... In the mainbook we present 11 completely campaign
> settings for All Flesh. Each with 2-3 scenario plots to give ideas on how
> to
> play a campaign in that setting. Here's a taste:
<Mucho world/vision/good stuff snippage>
> Granted why not spend $50 and play Resident Evil. Well in RE can you play
> someone touch with powers from God to aid you in stopping the undead? Can
> you sit down with a group of friends and fight off zombies while trying to
> find out why the government is doing this to a small town in the midwest? But
> for $30 Im sure yoiu can get more hours of enjoyment in All Flesh with a
> group of friends than by yourself for $50.
And there is, really, only so many times you can run Clare/Jill/Leon/Chris through their paces. The once "Oh my god that was cool/scary/silly/fun!" time through, and the "Now I know what I'm doing and can really watch the story unfold/try new paths." But after a while, the brass fades. As he says, the "My own" character is always an appeal, and with the $30, I can play a campagin that lasts months or years, done right. I don't know many computer/console games that hold up that long. Even I stopped playing DOOM at one point, even when it was the only game I owned. (Yes, I realize this wasn't much more that a long "Me Too!") =]
Can't wait to have it in my hot little hands...
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Site Specials? (GEORGE V.)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:57:08 PDT
> Are there any plans to keep the Flesh web site updated w/ rule
> addendums, errata, free adventures or new npc/monster detail, pdf
> character sheets, and a product list w/ coming dates?
The PDF character sheets would be most welcome. Keeps the book binding together a bit longer. One of the things I like about the Deadlands site.
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Site Specials? (GEORGE V.)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:10:17 EDT
In a message dated 9/25/99 3:25:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
twilight@vbe.com writes:<< Are there any plans to keep the Flesh web site updated w/ rule
addendums, errata, free adventures or new npc/monster detail, pdf
character sheets, and a product list w/ coming dates? >>
Ok current plans for the Flesh site will be as follows...
-Updated errata-FAQs
-New Character Archtypes, equipment, and zombies/monsters
-pdf files of character sheets and fast-play rules (which we hope to have up
and running BEFORE the game ships)
-Website exclusive adventures
-Website exclusive short stories (set in the All Flesh Deadworlds)
-I should have the cover for the first supplement (Enter the Zombie) up on
the site in about a week
-Art Gallery
-A Weekly updated All Flesh comic (done in the same format as the Resident
Evil comic on the Wildstorm.com website)
The site will continue to evolve as it gets closer the the release of the game, and as well as once the game is released. Anyone wanting to submit material for the All Flesh site (ie characters, equipment, short fiction, etc) please send them to me for review. Thanks.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] The Flesh Vision
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:24:26 EDT
In a message dated 9/25/99 8:17:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkosub@erols.com
writes:
<< Now that reply was more of what I had in mind. Less "Table of Contents"
and more "Vision Statement.">>
<<Not to worry, you have my $30, at least. What was of concern to me was
whether Eden had put together a real game, or had given us something in the
old tradition of FGU. >>
I thank you for the kind words. And thank you for allowing me to sit down and compiose my thoughts on the "Vision" of Flesh. As a designer/producer, I rarely get asked a direct question like that. It was nice to sit and compose my thoughts on this subject.
Whats funny is I went away this weekend to a wedding party in Canada and brought my sketchbook to work on the Archtype illustrations and I grabbed a yeat old sketchbook with still blank pages and found the very first All Flesh Must Be Eaten notes I made, in pencil, while I was playing RE2 for the first weekend. It was nice to see they weren't thrown away.
Well I hope with this forum, people like you and others can voice to us here at Eden what you'd like to see done with Flesh so we can make it a real game for everyone.
Thanks
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] More game info plez? was:POLL TIME
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:51:43 EDT
In a message dated 9/24/99 9:47:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gm1970@hotmail.com writes:
<< So with this in mind, how about giving us some details on the game
mechanics. How do the skills work? What are the stats? Brief synopsis on
combat? I don't think that getting any of this info will discourage anyone
from buying the game. >>
Gary,
I guess I'll jump in here. For those that don't know (that should be most of you), I am the editor and one of the writers on this project. I am also doing most of the rules work (I am also the editor on the WitchCraft line). Basically, it was my job to pull together the text from several different writers and make it a workable whole. I am also supposed to make George's overall vision work when it gets down to the nitty-gritty (and if any of you know just how twisted George's imagination is, or just how many zombie-entertainment experiences he has participated in -- that's no easy task). ;)
Attributes are a pretty basic lot (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Per, Wil), and run between 1 and 6 for humans (2 is average). They can go much higher for non-humans, but that is rare. Skills run the same gambit, but have no upper limit. Again, you will not likely see anything over a 9 or 10, however, and those will be very rare. As an example, a 4 or 5 skill is someone with a great deal of competancy, attained after a great deal of study or practice.
The basic Simple Test in the Unisystem is Attribute doubled plus D10 (a Difficult Test is Attribute plus D10). The basic Task is Attribute plus skill plus D10. If you roll a 9 or better, you succeed. Otherwise, you fail. Obviously, things can get more complicated, but that the basics. A roll of 10 grants you a further positive roll; a roll of 1 requires a further negative roll (modified to curtail the degree of success or failure -- these critical rolls do occur 20% of the time).
If you need to know degree of success, you compare the number you rolled with 9. Each two numbers over 9, you get one success (e.g., a 14 is 3 Success Levels). This is important in a number of circumstances indicated by the text.
Another variance occurs when two actors are pitted against each other. This calls for a Resisted Test. Each side rolls a Test or Task, and the higher wins (unless more than one roll is called for, in the Zombie Master's discretion).
As for fighting, close combat is a Resisted Task between the attacker's combat skill and the defender's combat skill (if he has a weapon or Martial Arts), or defender's Dodge skill (if he has none, it's a Difficult Dexterity Test). Ranged combat is attacker's ranged skill modified for range, lighting conditions, recoil (if autofire is used), etc. Defender's only response there is to duck and cover -- a Dodge and Dex Task, and he needs to beat the attacker's roll (if it's over 9). Problem there is that it uses all the defender's actions.
Damage is expressed in Life Points, which are a function of Str and Con. Each weapon does a range of damage (e.g., 9mm pistol does D6 x 4), modified by bullet type. Armor protects with a range as well (e.g., basic Class I Kevlar prevents D6 + 7). If you want, you can dump all the dice rolling, and just use a set number that is provided.
The system can be used with cards or a non-random storyteller's method, but dice are the default system.
I think that covers the basics.
Alex Jurkat
Eden Studios
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] RE Relevance was:POLL TIME
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:10:08 -0400
g. m. wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >Probably the worst thing in any set up roleplaying rules is a "hit
> >location" table.
>
> Can't say I completly agree. I like to have a simple Hit Location chart, but
> I hardly use them. If there isn't one, I can just use the one I know from
> HERO. I only tend to really use them if the players wants to call their shots
>
> >Want brains and blood everywhere? When a player takes the shot, in the
> >words of Jean-Luc Picard: "Make it so." A sidebar with a whole bunch of
> >gruesome ideas for weapon effects would be a great idea, if only to grease
> >the slide of the person running the game's imagination, but a table that one
> >rolls upon sucks up too much time and stunts creativity in the long run.
>
> I agree. A few vivid discriptions would be very cool, and should be pretty
> simple to "hack" out. =]
When I lived in the UK I picked up a British RPG called "Blood", based on "splatterpunk" style horror. It was a pretty crap game, though the unholy enthusiasm of the designers and writers still made it fun to read. The back part of the book was filled with Rolemaster-like critical hit tables based on weapons from acid spray to kitchen implements and various kinds of powertools. Each hit had a descriptive passage as well as game effects. Some were funny;
"91-95. A sudden change of attack bypasses his defenses. His head caves in under the impact and he falls, pulped brain spilling from the wound = Death. Lose all future attacks."
"00. Weapon meets skull. Skull weaker than weapon. Weapon snaps neck. Body meets ground = I'm sorry. It's not my fault. You're just another pointless victim of the violent and cruel attitude that exists in our world. I'd help if I could. But I can't, so tough shit! You're dead!"
Well, *I* though they were funny, and some of the other descriptions have come in useful for preparing my online game during periods of no inspiration :-)
Doctor TOC
--
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
UIN # 4814586
URL: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Farm
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:51:27 -0400
When talking about zombie links, one cannot overlook Norman England's butt-ugly, but otherwise excellent page, The Zombie Farm
(
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] More game info plez? was:POLL TIME
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:06:42 PDT
Gary,
I guess I'll jump in here. For those that don't know (that should be most
of
you), I am the editor and one of the writers on this project. I am also
doing
most of the rules work (I am also the editor on the WitchCraft line).
Basically, it was my job to pull together the text from several different
writers and make it a workable whole. I am also supposed to make George's
overall vision work when it gets down to the nitty-gritty (and if any of
you
know just how twisted George's imagination is, or just how many
zombie-entertainment experiences he has participated in -- that's no easy
task). ;)
Pleasure to "meat" cha. And It's always good to hear that out Zombie Lord is sufficently twisted to do the product well. =] As for working with the twist-o ideas, that's why ya make the big bucks, right? ;>
Attributes are a pretty basic lot (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Per, Wil), and run
between 1 and 6 for humans (2 is average). They can go much higher for
non-humans, but that is rare. Skills run the same gambit, but have no upper
limit. Again, you will not likely see anything over a 9 or 10, however, and
those will be very rare. As an example, a 4 or 5 skill is someone with a
great deal of competancy, attained after a great deal of study or practice.
Cool. So why is 2 average instead of 3? I'm going to assume that the stats/skills are bought with a pool of points, which makes me happy. I prefer to "buid" a character to what I want them to have, rather than rolling or sliding into a template.
<<Much info about what/how to roll snipped>>
A roll of 10
grants you a further positive roll; a roll of 1 requires a further negative
roll (modified to curtail the degree of success or failure -- these
critical
rolls do occur 20% of the time).
So if you get a 10, you are likely to get a major success, like making it all the way through a field filled with the Dead and not getting bit, and a 1 you can screw up big time, like rolling a 1 on your INT roll and deciding to shoot the lock off of the gas pump. I can dig.
If you need to know degree of success, you compare the number you rolled
with
9. Each two numbers over 9, you get one success (e.g., a 14 is 3 Success
Levels). This is important in a number of circumstances indicated by the
text.
Similar to Deadlands in that respect. I like that, but is this on a single d10, or are there chances to roll more dice and choose the better?
<<Cool combat rules in brief snipped>>
The system can be used with cards or a non-random storyteller's method, but
dice are the default system.
Umm...cards. Tarot or regular playing cards?
I think that covers the basics.
Alex Jurkat
Eden Studios
Thank you, thank you. Sounds good so far, so I'll probbably try the system for a while, kick the tires & all that and see if I like the mileage. Is this the exact same as the system in WITCHCRAFT and ARMAGEDDON(sp) or is it tweaked a bit?
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds of Wonder
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:23:24 PDT
Ok, I'm going to assume that the lack of traffic we've had lately is due to the simple fact that it's hard to discuss a game we don't have in our hot little hands yet, but in the interest of getting some talk going (with a good Signal to Noise ratio), let me offer a subject based on what we've pried out of our Zombie Lord's cold, clawing fingers so far. Let's pick one of the 11 Deadworlds and chew on it a while. For those coming in late, here's what we've got at the moment: I say Storyline ... In the mainbook we present 11 completely campaign settings for All Flesh. Each with 2-3 scenario plots to give ideas on how to play a campaign in that setting. Here's a taste:
+++++
Rise of the Walking Dead
Basically this is the Ramero-style, basic Zombie genre (Dawn fo the
Dead, etc)
PHADE to Black
PHADE is a virus, much like AIDS a sexualy transmitted disease, where like AIDs the PHADE virus spreads across the world where people who die of the virus come back from the dead.
Grave Impact
An incoming comet is destoyed in near orbit of Earth and the irradiated
pieces fall to Earth awaking an ancient evil. The only way to stop the dead is buring them and in the early days of the infestation, many cities were razed due to this. Safe zones are created and Martial law is placed across the country.
Sacred Soil
You can screw with nature for so long before she fights back. Experimental fertilizer from OrganoCore causes the dead to rise.
They Came From Beyond
An alien race from beyond uses the dead as hosts as they jump from world to world like locust.
Mein Zombie
The before mentioned WWII setting where Hitler raises the dead to stop DDay and prolong the war.
After the Bomb
After WWIII, and whent he dust settles humanity trys to rebuild itself but the old cities are infested with walking mutated dead.
Dead at 1000
An evil Venetian nobleman uses the black arts to raise an army of the dead in 990AD to take over Paris and soont he world.
Until the Ending of the World
When God decides the world is done stewing in its own sin it will be time to pull the plug and start over again. God intends for this final end to be an object lesson for those who dwell in the next world. you must side with Good or Evil in the last days of the Judgement.
Rise of the Zombie Lords
Intelligent Zombies lead there armies against mankind.
Rebirth Into Death
You awake as a zombie... will you succumb to the hunger or find a way around it.
+++++
So, which one do we tackle first? I'd vote for "Sacred Soil", "Rise of the Zombie Lords", "Mein Zombie", or "They Came from Beyond"
What say the group?
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 percent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves. - Emo Philips
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds of Wonder
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:10:27 -0700
> Ok, I'm going to assume that the lack of traffic we've had lately is due to
> the simple fact that it's hard to discuss a game we don't have in our hot
> little hands yet
So what is the release date on the game?
> So, which one do we tackle first? I'd vote for "Sacred Soil", "Rise of the
> Zombie Lords", "Mein Zombie", or "They Came from Beyond"
>
> What say the group?
Grave Impact.
"Daddy would've gotten us UZIs." :)
"The car was understeering like a pig."
Eddie Irvine
Drakonia: http://www.televar.com/~drake
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds of Wonder
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:04:08 -0700
> PHADE to Black
> PHADE is a virus, much like AIDS a sexualy transmitted disease, where
> like AIDs the PHADE virus spreads across the world where people who die of
> the virus come back from the dead.
Also an interesting concept. Is the virus spread by carriers, or is it of the airborne variety?
Looking over the settings, it appears as if Rebirth Into Death could be plugged into any of the others as well, allowing a character who died to return as the very thing the others are fighting against.
Cool stuff...
"The car was understeering like a pig."
Eddie Irvine
Drakonia: http://www.televar.com/~drake
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] More game info plez?
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:52:45 EDT
In a message dated 9/29/99 10:07:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gm1970@hotmail.com writes:
<< Cool. So why is 2 average instead of 3? I'm going to assume that the
stats/skills are bought with a pool of points, which makes me happy. I
prefer to "buid" a character to what I want them to have, rather than
rolling or sliding into a template.>>
Two is average, so that 0-1 can be used for less than average, and negative numbers can be used for subhuman. Yes, you build a character from points allocated between Attributes, Qualities, Skills and (for the Inspired) Metaphysics. That way you can't load up in any one area -- you have to spread them around.
<< So if you get a 10, you are likely to get a major success, like making it
all the way through a field filled with the Dead and not getting bit, and a
1 you can screw up big time, like rolling a 1 on your INT roll and deciding
to shoot the lock off of the gas pump. I can dig.>>
Mostly, as 1 and 10 come up 20% of the time on a D10, the benefits and detriments are not extreme most of the time. When all is said and done, 5% of the time when you roll, you get an extra umph (either good or bad), and 1% of the time you have to roll yet again. That leaves the rolls open-ended but not dramatically so.
<< Similar to Deadlands in that respect. I like that, but is this on a single
d10, or are there chances to roll more dice and choose the better?>>
Nope, one D10 is all you get. If you have the Luck Quality, or are Blessed by one of the Inspired, you have a limited number of rerolls, but that's it.
<< Umm...cards. Tarot or regular playing cards?>>
Regular playing cards, but we have a submission already for using Tarot and the Unisystem. May include that on the website, may put it in a GM's screen. Not sure now.
<< Thank you, thank you. Sounds good so far, so I'll probbably try the system
for a while, kick the tires & all that and see if I like the mileage. Is
this the exact same as the system in WITCHCRAFT and ARMAGEDDON(sp) or is it
tweaked a bit?>>
The system is basically the same. We have tweaked it in areas, and dropped certain features for now (no real major magic in All Flesh, yet). The game are intended to be compatible, however.
Alex
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Worlds of Wonder
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:03:07 EDT
In a message dated 9/30/99 6:00:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
drake@televar.com writes:
<< Also an interesting concept. Is the virus spread by carriers, or is it of
the airborne variety? >>
Here is a taste of the history section of PHADE from the mainbook:
The PHADE virus is more than just another sexually transmitted disease. It is in fact a recipe for zombification. Zombies have always been with us in one form or another. Many cultures, from the ancient Egyptians to the modern voodoo practitioners have discovered the process of animating the dead through magical potions, elixirs, and rituals. In the modern information age the details of such practices are more accessible to the common man, or in this case, the common high school student.
Philip Harrison was your average sixteen year old: young, handsome, and desperately in love for the first time in his life. The object of his affection, Jenna Filipachi, loved him as well, but she was also quite a party girl. Only fifteen, she had already discovered the powers of cocaine and heroin. One night at a party she discovered just how powerful the drugs could be: she overdosed and died.
Distraught and disbelieving, Philip sought to conquer her death, and after months of cruising the internet and frequenting voodoo chat rooms he learned all he needed to know to raise lovely Jenna from the grave. Quite mad by this time, Philip raised the decaying girl and consummated his love with her. When he woke up the next morning the handsome young man came to his senses and decided that the Jenna corpse wasn't nearly as desirable as the living thing. He disposed of the hapless zombie and got on with his life. By then it was too late. He had contracted PHADE, a zombie STD that Amanda's body created when her AIDS infected corpse rose from the dead.
On the rebound, Philip started making up for lost time with the local female population. The next fall he went to college and started to really sow his wild oats at the state university. Never one to listen to authority figures, he was not the world's foremost practitioner of safe sex. Spring break in Amsterdam did not help matters, and soon carriers were spreading PHADE all over the world. Unfortunately for the world, the disease did not manifest itself for another four years. More easily transmissible than AIDS, millions now had the deadly virus lurking in their blood.
Philip was the first to die and hundreds of thousands more followed in the next few months. A year later a million people had died. The world was in shock and organizations grew from public demand to try and fight this new sexually transmitted menace. Then the true horror of the disease made itself evident. Over a period of several days those who died from the disease began getting up again. Panic filled the streets as thousands of zombies in every city surged forth from the graveyards and converged on the local population.
Semi-intelligent, these zombies work in packs to hunt down and destroy the living. Those who died at their hands rose hours or days later to join the undead hordes. The creatures seemed bent on destruction for its own sake, not only killing, but destroying buildings and anything else that got in their path. In less than a week the world became embroiled in a fight for survival: living pitted against the dead with humanity's very survival at stake.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Re: Zombie Table / Idea
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:24 EDT
Actually I have an idea for a bit of game mechanics. I had a system I used years ago for a short-lived zombie rpg much like your own. I came up with something to explain how zombies can often remember snippets of their former lives. For example, sometimes (as in "Day of the Dead") a zombie just might be able to figure out how to use a gun, or he might have the sense to pick up a rock or piece of wood (as in the original "Night of the Living Dead") with which to smash something rather than using his bare hands.
The ability to "remember" would dull as the zombie deteriorated. I had a table with base chances of zombie "brainstorms" with lesser chances of succeeding as the undead became more decayed. The chances were also adjusted by the zombie's threat rating or power level. A roll on the table could be waived by the GM of course if having the zombie remember something advanced the storyline or just makes sense at the time.
Let me know if you are interested in the specifics and I will send them to you. I hope this is helpful to you in some way, or at the very least, amusing.
Thanks,
Roger C. Jones
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] That table (Zombie Graymatter Checks)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:26:40 EDT
Here is the table I mentioned, for those who were interested. Since I don't know the specifics of "All Flesh..." the table will have to be converted from percentile rolls. If anyone can remember their high school math it should be a piece o' cake. Enjoy.
Base Chances for Zombie Recall
The average undead has no real problem-solving abilities other than the desire to kill anything that moves and devour raw flesh and/or brains. The normal everyday actions you and I take for granted, like the ability to unlock a door or open a jar of pickles without breaking it, are extremely difficult for zombies. Not only do zombies have horrible motor control, but they simply don't remember how to do things anymore. Any time a zombie attempts to perform an action that does not involve hitting, biting, scratching, moving, or bare-handed smashing, the GM must make a percentile roll to see if the zombie may attempt the action. This roll is modified by the age of the zombie (starting at "death"), condition, power level, complexity of the action, and whatever situational modifiers the GM sees fit to throw in. Obviously you (the GM) may feel that the roll may be waived if the zombie is a rare or different type of zombie or if doing so would advance the story.
Note that this roll is not associated with a zombie's innate ability to sme ll or sense the living. That ability is always functioning.
Base Chance: 50%, -1% cumulative for every additional day of undeath. After 1 month: Decreases to 10% NOTE: These percentages may be adjusted for zombies which decay at a slower or faster rate.
Action Modifiers
Simple: Opening a closed, unlocked door; Picking up a club or blunt bashing weapon; Using a club; Avoiding minor obstacles: No Penalty
Basic: Sliding, pushing or moving large or cumbersome obstacles; Recognizing an obvious location; Recognizing an obvious danger or trap; Picking up or using sharp weapons without injury to oneself; Using an escalator : - 5 to
-10%
Moderate: Choosing easy targets; Climbing; Opening any unsealed container: - 15%
Difficult: Opening a sealed container (or trying to); Understanding a spoken word; - 20%
Almost Impossible: Opening a "child-proof" container; Reading a sign; Recognizing and not attacking a loved one; Using a weapon with moving parts (such as a revolver); Following a trail (tracking); Remembering a professional skill: - 25% or more
Additional Modifiers:
Zombie possessed above-average intelligence when alive: + 10%
"Natural Aptitude": + 15% to any action or skill that the zombie excelled at when alive
Cyborg zombie: + 10% or controlled by another source
JuJu Zombie (created through voodoo): + 5%
Vampire servant: No age penalty
True vampire or Zombie King: No roll required
Other mystical origin: as applicable
Alien intelligence: + 15% or controlled by alien mind
This roll is more of a guideline than anything else. It helps explain away a lot of B-movie discrepancies, adds variety, and helps keep the players on their toes. It guarantees that, aside from some mob sequences, no two zombies will ever be alike unless the GM wants them to be. The players may even be able to teach and befriend a zombie (as in "Day of the Dead")! But I wouldn't bet on it...
All the best,
Roger Jones
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] [flesh-rpg] Another idea: Vaccines
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:46:46 EDT
Every disease needs a cure... (Here's a quick re-write of a cheesy bakground story I wrote once, complete with stats for a vaccine)
VITA-SERUM (Or insert an equally ridiculous name here...)
During the initial outbreaks of what would become known as the "Zombie Plague", a scientist named Ethan Forrester was busy discovering a cure for cancer. He did not know how close he was to ending forever the threat of such a fatal disease. Ironically he was called away from his research by top military personnel who would enlist his aid in battling yet another deadly cancer: that of the undead hordes.
The top military brass, accused by some of generating the plague in the first place, had been watching Doctor Forrester's work closely for over a decade. They knew that a cure for cancer would surely cause chaos if not regulated by the federal government. They also discovered that the brilliant biochemist's work paralleled that of their own thinktanks, and could generate an antidote for what they felt could be used as an unstoppable weapon. Faced with no alternative but to produce a vaccine for the mysterious virus, they set Forrester to work. They hoped that even if the world could not be saved, they might live to pick up the pieces.
Forrester was taken to a secret facility where he toiled for many months in search of the right molecular cocktail for his cure. After many months, a miraculous breakthrough was made. The scientist had found that not only would the vaccine prevent the dead from returning, it could actually rejuvenate recently deceased persons. New zombies could have their life and humanity restored, and the terminally ill could be restored to full health.
The most unscrupulous politicians and military personnel to survive the previous conflicts were aware of the doctor's progress and sought to take control of the cure. Fortunately the doctor had the sense to take precautions against such actions.
What no one had known, and would never find out, was that Forrester had been working on a cure to help eradicate his own rare form of cancer. His earlier work had enabled him to enter remission from the disease, and his new work had provided something else. He could now enter a state of suspended animation in which his body would be perfectly preserved. He could also transfer his mind, his consciousness, and his research, to a mechanical construct that could leave the complex without raising suspicion.
One cold Fall morning, a gathered group of important men entered the Northeast Wing of the unnamed facility, expecting to claim their prize. Instead they found a perfectly preserved corpse, and no records of Forrester's work. Nor could they find a single sample of the vaccine they knew Forrester was close to perfecting. All they could do was keep the body in storage, study it, and begin again from scratch.
VITA-SERUM Effects
-Triples the normal rate of healing for one week.
-Cures all wounds or one fatal wound, in which case the person will be unconscious for one week.
-A comatose person will awaken and will heal fully with one week of normal rest.
-80% chance of preventing "zombiefication".
-70% chance of curing an afflicted person the first day, - 33% for each
additional day since contacting the "virus". If after the third day the victim fails the roll, he/she cannot be saved.
-Inflicts terrible damage if injected into a "mature" zombie. If the zombie fails a saving throw (20% base roll) it instantly explodes, otherwise it takes 6d6 damage.
NOTE: Reduce all percentages (except survival roll), damage and effects by half when used against zombies created through mystical means. The roll to resist destruction is 40% + bonuses.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Dark Horse comic
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:38:03 EDT
>>If anyone knows where I can find back issues of the zombie comic co-written
by Mike Mignola>>
If you are talking about DEADWORLD, you should be able to find it at almost any comic shop. I don't remember the writers or artists, but I'll dig mine up (pun intended). I would actually like to find some of the old ones, previous from Dark Horse.
I'm not sure but I think it might have been Arrow Comics
-Chad "Get the damned screwdriver out of my head" Bloom
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Dark Horse comic
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:08:58 -0700
> >>If anyone knows where I can find back issues of the zombie comic
co-written
> by Mike Mignola>>
>
> If you are talking about DEADWORLD, you should be able to find it at
almost
> any comic shop. I don't remember the writers or artists, but I'll dig mine
up
> (pun intended). I would actually like to find some of the old ones,
previous
> from Dark Horse.
> I'm not sure but I think it might have been Arrow Comics
Arrow Comics, and later Caliber, published Deadworld (which current WW artist Vince Locke got his start on), but I think the comic he's talking about may be Dark Horse's Zombie World. A big back issue place is:
Mile High Comics: http://www.milehighcomics.com/
"The car was understeering like a pig."
Eddie Irvine
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] First Supplement
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:04:36 EDT
<<Here is yet another gamer looking forward to this RPG!
A question, presumably to George: after the main rulebook, what other
releases are planned right now?>>
Currenlty the first supplement in development is "Enter the Zombie"
Here's a little info:
Enter the Zombie
They don't show mindless but fun movies on Saturday afternoons anymore, at least not like they used to. No more Creature Feature or Kung Fu Saturday to wile away the afternoon when you should be mowing the lawn or cleaning the gutters. Now it's all crappy teen movies from the Eighties and old Stallone flicks. What has the world come to? Where are the groaning zombies hungering for human flesh? Where are the badly dubbed kung fu masters fighting to prove whose style is better? Well they're right here of course, in your hands.
Even better, we've got them both in the same package. For the most part those old monster movies and chop-sockey flicks lived in different worlds, even if they shared adjacent time slots. Well why's that? Why not mix them up a little, and see what happens. Can the master's Drunken Fist stave off undead hordes hungry for fresh brains? What happens when the ancient founder of Golden Tiger style rises from the grave and comes looking for trouble? Who can stand in the way of Hong Kong triads backed by undead musclemen wielding Glocks in each decaying fist? These are the questions that have kept me up at night for what seems like decades. These are the questions this book answers.
As the first supplement to All Flesh Must Be Eaten, this book strives to open whole new vistas for your zombies-gaming enjoyment. Within this tome lies everything necessary to bring together all the thrills of Hong Kong action films and good old fashioned zombie excitement. The match of these two genres may not have seemed obvious to you at first, but the pleasures that arise from it are undeniable. After all, zombies and Hong Kong style action films make a perfect fit. What better match is there for a relentless series of lightning kicks and a hurricane of bullets than a target that can't die? The excitement just never stops. Besides, what martial arts master worth his salt doesn't ache for the ability to use his own intestines as a deadly whip? When you're undead, no problem!
The book begins with The Tao of the Dead, new rules that allow you to incorporate all the wild moves and death dealing techniques of action films into All Flesh Must Be Eaten. This chapter covers not only martial arts and special chi powers, but plenty of abilities available only to the undead along with rules for making zombie martial artist characters. Then come the settings, detailed chapters providing info on four unique settings that meld together the world of carnivorous corpses and Hong Kong style theatrics.
First you get Hard Boiled corpses, inspired in equal parts by John Woo and George Romero and dealing with undead gunslinging thugs on the streets of Hong Kong. Then comes Flesh Eaters in Little China, a mixture of ancient Chinese magic, the undead, kung fu fighting, and modern day San Francisco. Third is Once Upon a Zombie in China, set in ancient China where rival martial arts schools fight to prove who's master is the best, even if he's dead. Finally, there's Undead Combat, the otherworldly arena where warriors living and deceased battle for the future of humanity.
The stage is set. The lights are low. The crowd is hushed in terrified expectation. Enter the Zombie.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Moving right along
Date: 26 Oct 99 21:01:33 EDT
Goblyn <goblyn@wwa.com> wrote:
> >What interests people about zombies?
> I think it touches on a lot of people's fears. Fear of death, the beyond,
> cemeteries, mindless (sometimes) evil, overwhelming odds, and being alone
in a
> world gone to hell...to name a few...
I gotta admit that I think "last stand" stories are pretty cool. I think it's the symplicity of just having a straight-forward objective (try to survive). The fact that those last stands are usually hopeless is a morbid sort of relief, too; you're probably screwed regardless, so now it's just a matter of style. Oh, and you get to shoot lots of firearms.
>and well...hell THEY'RE JUST DAMN COOL!
Amen!
> >What are some good books/movies/shows/etc. that have featured the undead?
> As far as books go, I liked the Resident Evil Series, I haven't read much
that
> had zombies in it other than that. Movies, Evil Dead, Night of the Living
> Dead(s), Dawn and Day of course, there's been a lot of really crappy zombie
> movies as well with *really* horrid makeup, but titles escape me at the
> moment...they must've sucked pretty bad...
Horror seems to be one of those things that either works well or sucks like an electrolux, with little to no middle ground.
Speaking of the Living Dead movies, I'd heard that George Romero had a fourth one planned ("Twilight of the Dead," IIRC) that pitted human-trained zombies (ala Bub for "Day of the Dead") versus the "wild" zombies. Anyone else ever hear anything about it?
I'd also heard of a movie that I believe was entitled, "The Killing Box," about an Army unit during the Civil War being attacked by zombies arising from a nearby battlefield. Anyone out there seen this one?
As a bit of tangential zombie-info, Scorpion in Mortal Kombat was a revenant returned to take revenge on his murderer, Sub-Zero. Scorpion has become one of the most popular characters in the MK Mythos, which only goes to show that as you said, ZOMBIES ARE JUST DAMN COOL!
> >What are some good informational resources about corpses, myths of the
undead,
> >death-related rituals, etc?
> I actually saw something on the net a long while ago that showed (in
> illustrations) the stages of decay by hour...for myths of the undead and
death
> rituals, I would look at an Encyclopedia of Supersticions or just look at
> various religions around the world..
That's much better than my first idea -- bump off some neighbors of varying social groups and just watch what happens (another innocent posting that will undoubtedly come back to haunt me if I ever run for public office).
-- Roy
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Moving right along
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:47:38 -0500
>In the meantime, we can start related discussion now:
>
>What interests people about zombies?
I think it touches on a lot of people's fears. Fear of death, the beyond,
cemeteries, mindless (sometimes) evil, overwhelming odds, and being alone in a
world gone to hell...to name a few...and well...hell THEY'RE JUST DAMN COOL!
>
>What are some good books/movies/shows/etc. that have featured the undead?
As far as books go, I liked the Resident Evil Series, I haven't read much that had zombies in it other than that. Movies, Evil Dead, Night of the Living Dead(s), Dawn and Day of course, there's been a lot of really crappy zombie movies as well with *really* horrid makeup, but tites escape me at the moment...they must've sucked pretty bad...
>What are some good informational resources about corpses, myths of the undead,
>death-related rituals, etc?
I actually saw something on the net a long while ago that showed (in illustrations) the stages of decay by hour...for myths of the undead and death rituals, I would look at an Encyclopedia of Supersticions or just look at various religions around the world..
--------------
"You know, throughout the year I consider myself just a big gaming dork.
And then I come here and I feel pretty good about myself."
Geoff the Bear - GenCon32
From: Roy Cowan <roy.cowan@usa.net> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] off-site info
Date: 27 Oct 99 10:20:22 EDT
Accidentally sent this to the wrong address:
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
From: Roy Cowan <roy.cowan@usa.net>
To: flesh_rpg@edenstudios.com
Subject: off-site info
Date: 27 Oct 99 01:10:49 EDT
Here's the URL for a playtest copy review of All Flesh Must Be Eaten:
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_2323.html
BTW, does anyone know when the specific release date is?
-- Roy
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:03:36 EDT
In a message dated 10/27/99 4:59:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BlinkUL183@aol.com writes:
<< I like the funny zombies movies like "Evil Dead 2". Can you believe Ash
turned into a badass after only one film? Plus, i really like shooting
zombies with a shotgun....not that i shoot stuff with a
shotgun....regularly. >>
Well look at the film carefully... Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness takes place in like 2 days from the first movie to the next... then only a few days actually pass in Army of Darkness.
I guess if you push a man hard enough his true inner spirit comes out...
..yeah right ... and Im a chinese jet pilot.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Sources
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:18:59 +0100
Hey all,
Well, perhaps THE quintessential survival horror novel is "I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson. It's a superb novel about the lone surviving human in a city populated by what can only be described as savage almost animalistic vampires/zombies.
Hollywood went ahead and did a movie based on the novel called "The Omega Man" starring Charlton Heston. Fun movie, but although it did a reasonable job of showing the isolation the character suffers, it departed quite heavily from the nastier, darker tone of I Am Legend, featuring weird albino people, rather than the critters of the novel.
Aside from George Romero's obvious works, we shouldn't ignore the talents of Sam Raimi, and his "Evil Dead" trilogy. The first two (appropriately named "Evil Dead" and "Evil Dead II") are much more the along the classic zombiesque, mere mortals face horrors, lines, but the third movie, "Army of Darkness" is a cult classic in its own right. A pretty heavy departure from the first two movies, it's much more comedy laden (although "Evil Dead II" has its moments), downright wacky, with fantastic (and very quotable) one-liners, and some great action pieces. It's the one movie every roleplayer should watch, even if they aren't into zombie flicks. Make sure you get a copy with both endings on it.
If you're going for the Hong Kong take on horror/zombies/supernatural, check out the following: "Spooky Encounters", "Close Encounters of the Spooky Kind", "Magic Cop", "Mr Vampire", "The Bride with White Hair", "The Seventh Curse", and "A Chinese Ghost Story". All of these will also provide excellent material for AFMBE's first planned supplement.
As for console games, the only way to really go is the "Resident Evil" series. The first one was good, the second is phenomenal, and will scare you far more than any zombie flick. REII uses the kind of "camera" angles in its gameplay that would make any horror-film director proud, it'll make you jump, is incredibly tense, and works perfectly. If you ever needed a reason to buy a Playstation, REII, now released on platinum, is it. Also, bear in mind that Resident Evil III is due for release soon, and it is probably even better. It might also interest you to know that George Romero is directing the "Resident Evil" movie.
BTW, if any of you aren't really into Hong Kong action flicks (and I don't mean the lame Hollywood produced efforts, like Face/Off), or haven't looked at them, and don't know where to start, just holler, and I'll give you some good pointers. Owning quite a heap of HK movies of all genres myself, and having viewed many, many more, I can probably tell you what's hot, and what's not.
stay golden,
Colin
From: "Radio Free R'Lyeh" <the_nemesis@csi.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie Sources
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:46:26 -0400
> Hey all,
>
> Well, perhaps THE quintessential survival horror novel is "I Am Legend"
> by Richard Matheson. It's a superb novel about the lone surviving human
> in a city populated by what can only be described as savage almost
> animalistic vampires/zombies.
>
> Hollywood went ahead and did a movie based on the novel called "The
> Omega Man" starring Charlton Heston. Fun movie, but although it did a
> reasonable job of showing the isolation the character suffers, it
> departed quite heavily from the nastier, darker tone of I Am Legend,
> featuring weird albino people, rather than the critters of the novel.
Hollywood did two versions of I AM LEGEND. The first was the Vincent Price film, LAST MAN ON EARTH. It was much more faithful to the original story. The film includes scenes with the death of his family, the military body disposal groups, and the fire pits for the corpses. All in all, it does a wonderful job showing the slide out of civilization. The feelings of isolation are made all the stronger because you know what this man has lost, not only on a gross level, but on a personal one. Definitely a must see for the zombie film fan.
From: "Steven Nelson" <sdnelson@advancenet.net> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Moving right along
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:28:59 -0500
> >I'd also heard of a movie that I believe was entitled, "The Killing
Box,"
> >about an Army unit during the Civil War being attacked by zombies arising
> >from
> >a nearby battlefield. Anyone out there seen this one?
I've seen this one, it's so-so. Martin Sheen and Billy Bob Thornton have bit parts in it. The makeup and special effects are mediocre, the plot is interesting, but the storyline and dialogue are lacking, still it's good fun if you like Zombie B movies or if you play Deadlands.
It also goes under the following titles:
Ghost Brigade (1993)
Ghost Brigade: The Killing Box (1993)
Grey Knight (1993)
Grey Night (1993) (director's cut)
My Favorite Zombie Movies are:
Return of the Living Dead
Return of the Living Dead 2
The entire George Romero series
Evil Dead series/Army of Darkness
Redneck Zombies
I strongly recommend checking out Redneck Zombies, it's a campy extremely low budget horror flick. Good for laughs and all around disgusting. Troma now owns the rights and distribution but it was formerly distributed by Full Moon Pictures. I used to party with one of the guys who plays a zombie.
Enjoy!
Steven Nelson
sdnelson@advancenet.net
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Supplement Idea
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:40:16 +0100
Hey all,
A great idea for an All Flesh supplement just struck me:
"Zombies by Gaslight"
Basically, zombies in a late Victorian setting, inspired by the fictional works of Wells, Verne, Haggard, Conan Doyle, etc. You could have any of the following, and more:
* Dr Jekyll and Mr Zombie (the potion that turns the mild-mannered doctor into a flesh-chomping zombie).
* The Island of Dr Zombie (the characters travel to the island to discover a fiend splicing the dead with the living, to create zombies! Obviously based on the "Island of Dr Moreau").
* "War of the Worlds" take on a whole new twist when the invaders are zombies.
* The Chronos Machine (the mysterious "traveller" creates a time machine, and finds that in the future, two races populate the earth, nice cultured humans, and the hideous Zombies who dwell beneath the ground. Obviously based on "The Time Machine").
* Journey to the Center of Zombie Earth (a lost world of zombies is found by intrepid Victorian explorers).
* Can the players stop the foul predations of "The Invisible Zombie"?
* Colonialism is at its height, and British troops enter the Dark Continent, only to be attacked by tribesmen that have used voodoo-like shamanism to summon an army of zombies! Yes, "Zulu" becomes "Zombie".
This setting can present all of the above, and more (undead masterminds, archeologists in Egypt facing mummies, which are essentially just powerful zombies in bandages, etc.), and is even more cool, because not only does the period have the possibility of the European/colonial aspects, but the wild west aspects as well (ala "Deadlands").
"Have at you, you rotting fiend!"
stay golden,
Colin
From: "Ronald Larsen" <angelicus6@hotmail.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Supplement Idea
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:19:48 PDT
Hey all,
A great idea for an All Flesh supplement just struck me:
"Zombies by Gaslight"
Basically, zombies in a late Victorian setting, inspired by the
fictional works of Wells, Verne, Haggard, Conan Doyle, etc. You could
have any of the following, and more:
I love the 1920's (I'm a CoC fan), great idea...Just think about it, no gatling guns, no rocketlaunchers, no flamethrowers.... (no lawnmovers).
Dr Jekyll and Mr Zombie (the potion that turns the mild-mannered
doctor into a flesh-chomping zombie).
Or even better, advancing to experimenting on his staff (seen "Mary Reilly").
The Island of Dr Zombie (the characters travel to the island to
discover a fiend splicing the dead with the living, to create zombies!
Obviously based on the "Island of Dr Moreau").
Half zombie, half human. They moan at you to help them while they claw out your guts.....
"War of the Worlds" take on a whole new twist when the invaders are
zombies.
I hate aliens!
The Chronos Machine (the mysterious "traveller" creates a time
machine, and finds that in the future, two races populate the earth,
nice cultured humans, and the hideous Zombies who dwell beneath the
ground. Obviously based on "The Time Machine").
COOOOOL!!! I still think the classic is cool, but this adds a new dimension...
Journey to the Center of Zombie Earth (a lost world of zombies is
found by intrepid Victorian explorers).
The souls of the dead, that will rise at judgementday...
Can the players stop the foul predations of "The Invisible Zombie"?
Hmmmm....
Colonialism is at its height, and British troops enter the Dark
Continent, only to be attacked by tribesmen that have used voodoo-like
shamanism to summon an army of zombies! Yes, "Zulu" becomes "Zombie".
-Doctor UnLivinstone I presume?
This setting can present all of the above, and more (undead masterminds,
archeologists in Egypt facing mummies, which are essentially just
powerful zombies in bandages, etc.), and is even more cool, because not
only does the period have the possibility of the European/colonial
aspects, but the wild west aspects as well (ala "Deadlands").
The new "Mummy" was way cool, and gives much inspiration to a demented mind...
Cool ideas Collin
Ron
From: Doctor TOC <otherchris@erols.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Supplement Idea
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:31:13 -0400
Colin Chapman wrote:
> * "War of the Worlds" take on a whole new twist when the invaders are
> zombies.
How about if the "black smoke" employed by the Martians resurrected it's victims as zombies. Or perhaps the "Red Weed" became rooted in those fallen to the smoke, and puppeted them back into hungry life? Heh. People are always saying that Mar is a dead world...
> * The Chronos Machine (the mysterious "traveller" creates a time
> machine, and finds that in the future, two races populate the earth,
> nice cultured humans, and the hideous Zombies who dwell beneath the
> ground. Obviously based on "The Time Machine").
After a zombie apocalypse in the distant future, the "nice" humans have simply taken to dumping their dead down huge wells into disposal pyres beneath the ground. Only the fires went out generations ago, and the cool temperature below ground has preserved the dead, while swelling their numbers...
Doctor TOC
--
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
UIN # 4814586
URL: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Zombie boardgames
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:16:29 EDT
Actually an intereting Zombie boardgame is from Jolly Roger games called "Maul of America". Its overpriced for the quality of the components but its a fun zombie board game where you ahve 2 hours (of real time) to escape the mall or be overrun by zombies.
Check it out:
http://jollyrogergames.hypermart.net/JOL999/JOL999.htm
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Help wanted
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:04:08 EST
In a message dated 11/3/99 3:02:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sdnelson@advancenet.net writes:
<< Now I guess I'm a Flesher too... >>
Flesher or Fleshite?
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Help wanted
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 21:50:20 PST
<< Now I guess I'm a Flesher too... >>
> Flesher or Fleshite?
> George Vasilakos
> Eden Studios
> Zombie Lord
As often as we all bat around Evil Dead references, I'd have to say Fleshite. Just cuz it sounds cool. Matter of fact, I'll say it now.
Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite.
he he he...Groovy
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
Forgive me Father, for I have made a grevious error in judgement
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Help wanted
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 01:55:23 -0800 (PST)
--- "g. m." <gm1970@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ><< Now I guess I'm a Flesher too... >>
> >
> >
> >Flesher or Fleshite?
> >
> >George Vasilakos
> >Eden Studios
> >Zombie Lord
>
> As often as we all bat around Evil Dead references,
> I'd have to say
> Fleshite. Just cuz it sounds cool. Matter of fact,
> I'll say it now.
>
> Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite.
>
> he he he...Groovy
>
> --
> GAry m, minor epot
> aka "Sneezy the Squid"
> ------------------------------
Hmm. Flesher? Fleshie? Fleshist? Fleshite. Works for me!
The New Guy Sitting in the Dark Corner
Gnawing...Something Unpleasant.
From: Dave Conrad <nightman@io.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Help wanted
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:06:28 -0600 (EST)
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, g. m. wrote:
> As often as we all bat around Evil Dead references, I'd have to say
> Fleshite. Just cuz it sounds cool. Matter of fact, I'll say it now.
>
> Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite. Fleshite.
When I read this, I can't help but think "Shite! Shite Shite Shite!"
Dave C.
iN*T*x
From: "Mike Marchi" <mikemarchi@demonground.org> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] DEMONGROUND on the AirWaves
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:46:23 -0600
DEMONGROUND on the AirWaves
The Six-Siders Radio Show
Something very exciting has happened to our little magazine this week. We've been mentioned on the radio! The Six-Siders Radio Show (www.sixsiders.com) is a nationally (U.S. that is) syndicated radio program that focuses on all things fantasy/sci-fi/gaming related. The hosts of the program, each assume a personna from a different genre and sit around and chat about whatever comes to mind. It's like listening to your gaming group sit around the table and talk about the latest news and information for our hobby. It's great! The hosts/hostesses of the program are:
Gorthax - The Slayer
K'Trixie - The Klingon Concubine
Lola - The Barbarian Maiden
Vandikar - Disgraced Guardsman of the Imperium
Photon Leer - God Hero of Glorantha
Jack Bain - Private Eye
Ylferdun - Blue Dragon Overlord
We were contacted by Photon Leer last week. He had stumbled across the DEMONGROUND site during his many travels of the Ether. He was apparently impressed. He sent us a list of questions about DEMONGROUND, our past and our future. The details of that interview can be found on the sixsiders site (for the moment anyway) at http://www.sixsiders.com/articles.htm.
As if that wasn't enough, we received a very complimentary five-minute review during their most recent radio broadcast. For those of you who (like us) were unaware of The Six-Siders Radio Show, or have no idea where to find it on their local dial, they provide a Real-Audio broadcast of their most recent show on their web site. Be sure to give it a listen (The DG bit is in the 00:16:00 to 00:21:00 minute range).
They update these links weekly, so you only have a limited time to catch our radio debut!
Mike Marchi
icq# 11878805
http://www.42north.org/~mjm
DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future
mailto:mikemarchi@demonground.org
http://www.demonground.org
From: "Mike Marchi" <mikemarchi@demonground.org> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] All Flesh Must Be in DEMONGROUND
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:06:49 -0600
DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future
Volume 8 deadline for submissions : December 6, 1999
If you haven't checked out DEMONGROUND yet, you probably should. We've been providing quality adventures, home rules, NPCs, plot hooks and fiction specifically for Dark Conspiracy for over a year. Now we're expanding our focus to provide the same level of support for "Conspiracy X" as well.
All we're missing, is you! Do you have some material you developed for your local group, sitting in a drawer, or cluttering up your hard disk? Ever thought about getting your work published and out in the public eye, but never knew how to get started? Let DEMONGROUND be an outlet for your writing or art. The first step to getting noticed in this industry is to put your work where someone can see it. We're a internationally produced and read fanzine. Each issue is produced in a high quality PDF format, and available for download for free from our web site www.demonground.org .
Remember, DEMONGROUND is a fanzine, and that means we rely on submissions from fans like you to fill our pages each issue. If you have any questions, e-mail us at submissions@demonground.org We'll be happy to answer your questions.
We look forward to seeing you in DEMONGROUND...
Mike Marchi
Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future
http://www.demonground.org/
mailto:mikemarchi@demonground.orgFrom: Doctor TOC <otherchris@erols.com> Save Address - Block Sender
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] X-Files
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:31:45 -0500
I'm surprised we haven't seen any list traffic about last night's X-Files. It seems particularly pertinent to the list as the episode, apart from a guest spot by Lance Henriksen as Frank Black, also featured a plot to bring about a good old-fashoined zombie apocalypse.
Spoilers
.
The story featured a "necromancer", who used obscure Christian lore, mixed with some good ol' Haitian voodoo to resurrect four former FBI agents who had committed suicide. It turns out that these ex-agents had become members of the Millennium Group, and had killed themselves in order to be brought back from the dead as personifications of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. When 1999 came to an end, these creatures would cause the dead to rise, bringing about the end of the world.
The zombies were a mix of Haitian and Hollywood. They attacked their victims and ate parts of them, and those they killed later rose. Protection could be gained by standing in a circle of salt, and filling the mouth with salt was enough to stop the dead from rising. As in the tradition of George Romero, shooting them in the head was enough to send them back to the grave. The zombies were swift and savage, and exhibited some cunning (hiding beneath the earthen floor of a rough basement, for instance).
Not a bad episode. Perhaps in a parallel world, Mulder and Frank Black were less successful...
Doctor TOC
-
The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris"
ICQ # 4814586
Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar
The TOC Files - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/wilhelm/148/
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] George Romero Radio Transcript
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:04:12 -0600
This is sort of late but I was curious if anyone caught "Talk of the Nation" radio show on National Public Radio today? George Romero (Night of the Living Dead fame) was on along w/ Clive Barker. You can check out a transcript of the conversation at:
http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=11/29/1999&PrgID=5
Enjoy folks.
-Guy
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] All Flesh Printer News and Update
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:29:42 EST
Ok Flesh is moving along in preflight at the printers and so far no problems with the inside of the book to get completed before Christmas.
The only problem my printer has informed me is that the hardcover is done by another printing company that they subcontract out to (do to the volume of printing they get at this time during the year) and that the cannot bind the cover to the interior until after the new year since they only have 15 more work days allocated for the month. They are shutting down a week earlier this month giving there employees and extra week off for the millenium festivaties and holiday.
We missed our allocated time slot (by three weeks) and they are doing their best to put us in a sooner time slot.
So we are expecting a mid-January ship date now.
I apologize for the delay in the release of the book. I was hoping you all would get to see it before Christmas and before the New Year. I hope you all understand and can please hold on a little longer for the book. I promise you won't be disappointed. I hope you all have a safe holiday.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Resident Evil as RPG plot
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 14:37:55 EST
In a message dated 12/1/99 3:55:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
angelicus6@hotmail.com writes:
<< You can go to many computer stores and pick up the hint books for RE2. They
>have the maps and many screen shots of the the letters.>
>George
>Eden Studios
Excelent! Thanks George. I never thought of that. Have to upgrade
brain...perhaps by eating my boss's...
>>
I just stumbled upon my old RE2 book yesterday, and as i thumbed throught it, it does have really good maps, however, it doesn't have any of the filed material or any screen shots of letters or memos in the game. It is still a good source to have for yer game.
Crash
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Resident Evil as RPG plot
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:05:17 PST
I just stumbled upon my old RE2 book yesterday, and as i thumbed throught it,
it does have really good maps, however, it doesn't have any of the filed
material or any screen shots of letters or memos in the game. It is still a
good source to have for yer game.
Crash
Actually, I've searched all over town for a booklet, but I can’t find it anywhere. It seems to be out of production. Does anyone know where I can order one or at least send me some kopies of the maps (which is the hardest to draw) I would be extreemly grateful (As in gratefull dead). PLEEEEAAAASE help.
Ron
PS: if anyone should hear this cry for help my adress is:
Ronald Larsen
Kobbervn. 15
1488 Hakadal
Norway
I will naturally pay for any expenses and inconvenience this might be.
In advance
Thanks
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] RE2 strategy guide
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:58:34 PST
In either case, I wouldn't want to just show screen shots to the players.
I'd probably reproduce the notes, journals, maps, etc. as game props.
Of course, this is just my personal bias, which I am offering up as a
suggestion, so please don't attack me for it. I understand that not
everyone has the kind of time, money, or drive to do this sort of thing.
Being a graphical designer I would have no problem turning the maps into single standing maps I can use on their own as player handouts. Naturally I'll also produce the rest as game props, probably as close to the "real" thing as possible. I even considered making some of the stuff they find or something simmilar (chessboardpieces, painted pieces of wood, etc).
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:37:35 EST
In a message dated 99-12-11 20:56:18 EST, you write:
<< Ok, but what is the premise of the game? Does it deal with zombies or does it have some other "horror"? >>
It deals with some other horror.
The exact plot is open to interpretation, and explainations of the various plot elements will vary from person to person.
The plot is set up as follows: A writer, Harry Mason, is trying to forget the recent death, decides to go on vacation. He lets his young daughter, Cheryl, choose what to do. She decides to go to Silent Hill, a small resort town. While travelling there, late at night, someone steps out in front of Harry's jeep, causing him to swirve off the road and crash. When he awakens, there are sirens blaring in the distance, and Cheryl is missing. He is in Silent Hill, where a mysterious fog has descended on the town, and snow is falling, even though it is Spring/Summer. He sees a little girl in the distance, and thinking it's Cheryl, gives chase. He follows her to an alley and into a building, where it looks like horrible medical experiments have happened. Out of the shadows dead children attack him, and he falls under their knives, dead, it would seem.
Again he awakens, to find himself in a restaurant somewhere in Silent Hill. With him is a young motorcycle cop, named Cybil (I believe), who found him and brought him to the restaurant. Harry explains that his daughter is missing in the town, and Cheryl reveals that all lines of communication to and from Silent Hill are down, and all the townsfolk are missing. They part, Cybil going to get help at the next town -- only to find all roads out of town are out, and Harry to go find Cheryl.
Along the way, Harry (and the players) will find themselves transported from the real world, into a dirty, oppressive world of steel, chains, and bloodstains. Everyone has different theories on what this other world is -- some think it is Cheryl's imagination, other think it's the torment Alyssa (a character intimately tied with Cheryl) imposing it self on the world, and still others think Harry is descending into Hell, or Hell is ascending to Earth.
I won't give away any more plot elements, in case anyone wants to discover for themselves. I will say, however, it is easily one of the most disturbing games I have ever played. And honestly, having played all the Resident Evils, that Silent Hill may be a bit better. When the game was released late last winter, it drew a lot of comparisons to the Resident Evil series. There are similiarities, mostly in the gameplay.
The big differences though, come in plot, and method of suspense. Resident Evil tends to rely on the "sudden-fright" to draw in the players. Silent Hill instead relies on a slow building of tension that once reaching it's maximum, doesn't let up. The game also tries to shock and generate feelings of revulsion. Some people find Silent Hill's method boring and confusing, while others I have talked to said the game either made them sleep with the lights on, or have nightmares for days after playing.
I don't think it would lend itself well to All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It would, however, be perfect for Kult.
Bruce
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:20:45 -0600
>>> "Rayman" <norse@clover.net> 12/12/99 18:44 PM >>>
>>
>> I don't think it would lend itself well to All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It
>> would, however, be perfect for Kult.
>>
>> Bruce
>Thanks for the info, it sounds pretty good, I just never knew what it was all about. Now, what is this Kult thing everyone seems to >be mentioning?
>
>Rayman
Kult is one of the most hard-core horror RPGs on the market. (I still think the Necroscope RPG takes the cake.) One of my friends told me that he once read a review of Kult that described it as "Call of C'thulu, without the sense of hope."
--Patrick Barrett
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:07:09 PST
>Thanks for the info, it sounds pretty good, I just never knew what it was
>all about. Now, what is this Kult thing everyone seems to be mentioning?
>
>Rayman
Kult is IMO one of the coolest RPG settings ever (the system sucks though, but thats not important. If you wanna read it the first edition is best, second is ok, and from there its down hill. They seem to make it nicer and nicer for every edition. Kult is the setting for all you nightmares, all your perversion, and all your pleasures. Mix Hellraiser, The Shining, Silence of the Lambs, and every other movie or book that made you look under your bed, and you have Kult. The background-work for the setting is great, and the books make great source, even if you don't want to play the game itself...
Ron
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Half-Life: was Silent Hill
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:52:26 PST
> I had a few of those myself. A couple of times you just spit your heart
> right out of your chest and watch it bounce across the floor. Only
> disadvantage is I hardly find movies creepy anymore. Its a different story
> when you "are" the character in the horror story.
Having the same experience here with HALF-LIFE, which has alien parasites (head-crabs) turning scientists into weird mutant-zombie (that ALL FLESH tie-in) things, as well as other strange things from some "other place". First time since DOOM that a first-person shooter game has made me jump while playing, and it's because of the plot. Very well done, and you can actually talk to the helpless scientists and guards you meet. They even act appropertly, the lab coats running and screaming in terror when the fit hits the shan. =]
And the same for the bad guys. When you duck behind cover and the government clean-up crew lobs grenades at you is a shock the first time.
There's a reason it's won the Game of the Year award from over 45 magazines.
Check it out.
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
If you're going to pick a hero, ya know, do your research
-- Bill Hicks
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:00:42 PST
>Thanks for the info, it sounds pretty good, I just never knew what it was
> all about. Now, what is this Kult thing everyone seems to be mentioning?
::SNIP::
> Kult is IMO one of the coolest RPG settings ever (the system sucks though,
> but thats not important. If you wanna read it the first edition is best,
> second is ok, and from there its down hill. They seem to make it nicer and
> nicer for every edition. Kult is the setting for all you nightmares, all
> your perversion, and all your pleasures. Mix Hellraiser, The Shining,
> Silence of the Lambs, and every other movie or book that made you look
> under your bed, and you have Kult. The background-work for the setting is great,
> and the books make great source, even if you don't want to play the game itself...
I agree, the source books are great for insperation. I'm culling them for stuff for my ALL FLESH and my DELTA GREEN campagins. All kinds of good stuff, and you can usually find them in the bargin bins now.
The basic skinny is they borrow an idea from a religion I can't remember the name of, in that God (the Demiurge) has abandoned his creation to fend for itself, and that the "Angels" and "Demons" for lack of better terms, are in controll. The real twist is that humanity is just as "devine" as the Angels/Demons, but we are imprisoned in reality, which is an illusion that can wear thin in places. At these thin points, the real world blurrs into our illusionary reality, and terror insues. Characters can also "Ascend" to the Angelic side, or "Decend" to the deomnic. Both sides of this conflict are well covered in the Legions of Darkness sourcebook, the one book to buy, if you only get one KULT book, IMHO. But, once you read it, like I did, you gotta catch 'em all (with fishhooks)! =]
Also, give WHISPERING VAULT a look if you like this kind of "Cosmic Horror".
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
If you're going to pick a hero, ya know, do your research
-- Bill Hicks
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Half-Life: was Silent Hill
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 01:03:56 PST
Having the same experience here with HALF-LIFE, which has alien parasites
(head-crabs) turning scientists into weird mutant-zombie (that ALL FLESH
tie-in) things, as well as other strange things from some "other place".
First time since DOOM that a fisrt-person shooter game has made me jump
while playing, and it's because of the plot. Very well done, and you can
actually talk to the helpless scientists and guards you meet. They even act
appropertly, the lab coats running and screaming in terror when the fit
hits the shan. =]
And the same for the bad guys. When you duck behind cover and the government
clean-up crew lobs grenades at you is a shock the first time.
There's a reason it's won the Game of the Year award from over 45 magazines.
Check it out.
--
GAry m, minor epot
Hmmmmm...Half Life you say. Have seen it. Have heard of it. Wrote it of as I'm not a great fan of first person shooters. Reminds me too much of Doom... Will check it out closer though on your recommendation . ;)
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 01:12:32 PST
I agree, the source books are great for insperation. I'm culling them for
stuff for my ALL FLESH and my DELTA GREEN campagins. All kinds of good
stuff, and you can usually find them in the bargin bins now.
Its too bad there isnt room for niche products like this anymore. All is profit it seems...
The basic skinny is they borrow an idea from a religion I can't remember the
name of, in that God (the Demiurge) has....
<SNIP>
The religion you're looking for is Gnostisism, a strange offspring from Christianity. The main idea is that all material stuff (including flesh, the world, etv) is evil and the only good is the spirituall world. The material world is actually a prison, the enclose the free spirit.
PS: for those who still wanna run Kult (I'm a GM), use a spoiler note if you want to explain all the secrets of an RPG.
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 03:44:31 PST
The basic skinny is they borrow an idea from a religion I can't remember
the
name of, in that God (the Demiurge) has....
<SNIP>
The religion you're looking for is Gnostisism, a strange offspring from
Christianity. The main idea is that all material stuff (including flesh,
the
world, etv) is evil and the only good is the spirituall world. The material
world is actually a prison, the enclose the free spirit.
PS: for those who still wanna run Kult (I'm a GM), use a spoiler note if you
want to explain all the secrets of an RPG.
Ah, sorry, my bad. I'm usually better about such things. Hope you're able to head your players off at the pass, as it were, before they read my bungle. Have to remember - Spoilers for all games, not just All Flesh. 'course, when the Zombies rise in 18 days and the End Times begin, little things like spoilers won't matter so much. =]
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
If you're going to pick a hero, ya know, do your research
-- Bill Hicks
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Silent Hill/Kult
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:12:20 PST
Ah, sorry, my bad. I'm usually better about such things. Hope you're able to
head your players off at the pass, as it were, before they read my bungle.
Have to remember - Spoilers for all games, not just All Flesh. 'course,
when the Zombies rise in 18 days and the End Times begin, little things like
spoilers won't matter so much. =]
No damage done. As fare as I know, none of my players lurk on this list. Looking foreward to AFMBE comes though..
Ron
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Half-Life: was Silent Hill
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 07:24:06 -0600
>>> "g. m." <gm1970@hotmail.com> 12/13/99 10:52PM >>>
>>I had a few of those myself. A couple of times you just spit your heart
>>right out of your chest and watch it bounce across the floor. Only
>>disadvantage is I hardly find movies creepy anymore. Its a different story
>>when you "are" the character in the horror story.
>Having the same experience here with HALF-LIFE, which has alien parasites
>(head-crabs) turning scientists into weird mutant-zombie (that ALL FLESH
>tie-in) things, as well as other strange things from some "other place".
>First time since DOOM that a fisrt-person shooter game has made me jump
>while playing, and it's because of the plot. Very well done, and you can
Yes, I definitely liked the level of interactivity with the "NPCs" in that game. Of course, it also helped that, rather than just saying, "Here's the story so far," then dropping you in the middle of it, you actually get to cause the disaster that alters reality as we know it. First time I played that was in a dark room, with no windows, on a 21 inch monitor. At one point, I got so freaked that I jumped up, knocking my chair over, and was about to lob my cordless mouse at the screen.
--Patrick Barrett
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Infection
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:14:09 -0600
Now does it seem odd to anyone else but me but does it seem that the Zombie plauge is not a disease in the real sense? It is much more likely that its the infections and toxins created through the decomposition fo the corpse, than the breaded "Bite".
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Infection
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:21:14 EST
I agree totally. Combine the normal amount of nasty bacteria in the average dead guys mouth with the amount of stress that the living would be under and even a routine staph infection would be lethal. Add in elements like improper nutrition (those damn k-rations and M.R.E.s just don't provide many vitamins and nutrients) and your immune system would almost shut down entirely.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Infection
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:11:05 -0500
I guess this is one place I completely disagree. The zombies, living dead, or whatever you call them are powered by an unknown factor. Whether that force is scientific or supernatural or not I believe that it is the thing that causes death, and the inevitable rise as a zombie. After all, no matter how you die you come back as a zombie. The bite just causes the death. It is swift, after all once you're bitten it doesn't take long for you to drop dead. This stuff is faster than ebola. So, consider, if it is a supernatural force then it would want it's agents of death to have a means to spread the "infection" as fast as possible. People would get bitten and go to hospitals, family, or friends for help (i.e. large population centers) where they could spread the death even faster.
Rayman
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] zombieland
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:22:29 -0600
Can these zombies swim? Do they posses enough intelligence to operate a vehicle?
--Patrick Barrett
>>> "Rayman" <norse@clover.net> 12/16/99 03:12PM >>>
What would you do if you were sudenlly confronted by or knew the country was
under a zombie plague?
Where would you go?
How would you try to survive?
Just wondering
Rayman
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] zombieland
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:05:50 PST
What would you do if you were sudenlly confronted by or knew the country
was
under a zombie plague?
Where would you go?
How would you try to survive?
Just wondering
Rayman
Four stops on the way out:
1. The local military instalation, to get some guns'n'ammo.
2. The local swordshop and stack up with Katana(s). (No plural in Japanese).
Here I would also get all the survival gear Id need.
3. The local Amcar dealer and "borrow" a Hummer.
4. Foodstuff. Lots of water, tincans, noodles....flesh...Ups, thats the other guys..
Then I'd try and get out of the country. If this doesn't work I know quite a few underground instalations to hide and barricade in...
Ron
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Re: zombieland
Date: 18 Dec 99 01:33:10 EST
Rayman wrote:
> What would you do if you were sudenlly confronted by or knew the country was
> under a zombie plague?
Actually, here in Spokane I'd be hard-pressed to notice the difference.
> Where would you go?
I'd hit some book stores, the movie shop at the mall, pick up a generator to
power my house.
> How would you try to survive?
Honestly, I'd play games like running around the zombies to see if I could make them dizzy, practice boxing by ducking in and punching them, then ducking back out...
Seriously, I'd just find a spot to huddle up in a temperate climate near a food source. Assuming the zombies aren't that bright, I'd just have to rig up something half-way complicated to access the entrance so the zombies couldn't sneak in (a rope ladder or somesuch). A roof entrance for clearing out zombies as they gather (using a big rock with a counterweight and a rope or somesuch). That's all off the top of my head.
-- Roy
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Character Archtypes
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:08:57 EST
In a message dated 12/22/99 10:00:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
otherchris@erols.com writes:
<< Great stuff George. The artwork rocks! Of course, as a Doctor Who fan, the Video Store Clerk is my favourite, but they are all excellent. I love the priest (Kind of reminds me of Jesse Custer from DC's "Preacher"). Very atmospheric.
I did notice a few typos, but hey, when it's free you can't complain, right? Thanks for the update. Now I *really* can't wait for the game.
Happy holidays, and here's to a Fleshy New Year... >>
Yes , Alex my editor noticed the typos last nite and I uploaded correct edited versions this morning.
Yes the Priest art is based on the Preacher statue from DC comics, I put that in there since Chris Shy (All Flesh cover artist and inside artist, co-creator) loves the comic and thought that the Preacher would make a kickass character template.
The Scientist is me. The Reporter is this waitress I know that works at my Dads restaurant and the Video Store Clerk is based on the busboy as well.
George Vasilakos
Eden Studios
Zombie Lord
www.edenstudios.net
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Inspiring song
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:08:57 PST
Hey all!
I just got the song "Death is Not the End" by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds in MP3 format, and I cannot *reccomend* this song *Strongly* enough to All Flesh GMs. Each verse is sung by a diffent person, and the immagry of the lyrics is perfect for this game. I could, and will, build a whole campagin based around this song! Find it!
If people want, I'll post lyrics and what scenarios they inspire to the list.
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
If you're going to pick a hero, ya know, do your research
-- Bill Hicks
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Inspiring song
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 00:47:38 -0600
> Hey all!
>
> I just got the song "Death is Not the End" by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds in
> MP3 format, and I cannot *reccomend* this song *Strongly* enough to All
> Flesh GMs. Each verse is sung by a diffent person, and the immagry of the
> lyrics is perfect for this game. I could, and will, build a whole campagin
> based around this song! Find it!
The song is on the album "Murder Ballads" which is a bizarre and dark collection of tunes, mostly about murder. "Death is Not the End" is the exception as I don't recall it being about murder. If you want tunes to inspire you to write some dark and twisted type stuff (I've gotten some Deadlands and Hell on Earth inspiration listening to this CD) then I recommend this. Never thought of "Death is Not the End" from a zombie point of view though... I'll have to go back and listen to it more closely... thanks for the heads up!
Steve Nelson
sdnelson@advancenet.net
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Character Archtypes
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:42:40 EST
In a message dated 12/22/99 10:35:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
voivode@WarpLink.com writes:
<< The Goth Chick refers to "the Cranes." Anyone who has ever been a fan of
Cranes (and this is a _big_ "we're more Goth then thee" point) knows that
Cranes are never the Cranes unless you're a shallow poseur. If she was
_supposed_ to be a poseur then I'll just shut up.
Doug. >>
Doug,
Good call. Thanks. Obviously, we are but shallow poseurs here. The Goth Chick, however, is the real deal. She should have it right.
George will take care of making the change. Also, G, are we in time to catch the page proofs?
Thanks again,
Alex
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Character Archtypes
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:20:45 PST
<< The Goth Chick refers to "the Cranes." Anyone who has ever been a fan
of
Cranes (and this is a _big_ "we're more Goth then thee" point) knows that
Cranes are never the Cranes unless you're a shallow poseur. If she was
_supposed_ to be a poseur then I'll just shut up.
Doug. >>
Doug,
Good call. Thanks. Obviously, we are but shallow poseurs here. The Goth
Chick, however, is the real deal. She should have it right.
George will take care of making the change. Also, G, are we in time to
catch
the page proofs?
Just wanted to add my kudos to the list! The Goth Chick was very cool. I love all the art, but I *really* liked her pic. I'm not a Goth, but boy howdy I'd love to know some more of them better! ;>
All the archtypes had a cool bit. The Dr. Who tapes, "We have to save the top 10% IQs & supermodels", "Legs that woudln't quit", et cetra. I can't wait to have the game in my hands now!
--
GAry m, minor epot
aka "Sneezy the Squid"
------------------------------
If you're going to pick a hero, ya know, do your research
-- Bill Hicks
DNRC Member since 1995 /|\ ICQ ID#: 8391493
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Our first session!
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:27:47 -0500
Well, I talked about All Flesh back in November... so next week I'm running my first session... just in time for Z2k and a month and a bit before the rules come out! I've broken out my copy of Witchcraft, taken the adventure seed and a couple templates from the page...
I have a question. How tough should shambling geeks be?
My thoughts tend towards a single well-trained guy (say, the athelete) could hold one off indefinitely, but even Mark Messier (or whomever) is going down once two or more geeks get close.
Any ideas on balance?
Doug.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Our first session!
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:04:26 EST
"Realism dictates that they not be much stronger than a human (without a world-reason),"
And if you have players that are incredibly resourceful and would make taking out Night of the Living Dead zoms too easy and the right world reason (like maybe Nazi engineered super-geeks), you can go for broke. The idea of a small crack-commando team of SS zombies with full human guile (remember the zombies in Return of the Living Dead, they used tactics, baby! Heck, they even ordered take-out). Maybe zombies aren't any stronger than humans, but they can get the advantage in endurance.
Imagine if you would, the geeks actually guarding an instillation (perhaps the secret of their existence is within) and they're pumping toxic gasses inside the building as an added precaution since they're immune to it. And imagine the terror you can cause the "sniper" types in the group who get so complacent in taking everything at a distance is one of those undead turns out the be a sniper (maybe one with a sadistic temperament, who targets knees first).
Jon
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Our first session!
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 10:44:52 -0500
Thanks to both of you!
> "Realism dictates that they not
> be much stronger than a human (without a world-reason),"
Yes, the geeks' best advantage will be immunity to pain and nigh-unstoppability. There combat score (trait+skill) will probably be 3, so with the rule of 9 they'll get their hands on you fairly frequently. Their pattern will be grab, then start gnawing, for now I'm not giving them much in the way of "claw damage." I still have two days to decide how much damage biting will cause. Their strength will prolly be 3 (above average) with dexterity at 1. If the first couple are too tough I'll drop the dex to 0, lowering the combat score to 2.
> And if you have players that are incredibly resourceful and would make taking
> out Night of the Living Dead zoms too easy and the right world reason (like
> maybe Nazi engineered super-geeks), you can go for broke.
None of the characters are "Survivors," even the Skinhead (scrappy athlete, basically) only has 19 points in traits.
In the first session I'll be using the Witchcraft optional rules for "shock" quite extensively. Only the Video Store Clerk will be prepared for the dead rising again ("Cool!"). In the first session shambling geeks should be enough. I'll prolly wait for the rules for the second session (as I do have an on-going campaign to run) before I run a second, but in the second session I plan to throw in "smart geeks."
As for "snipers," that role will be filled in second+ sessions by a "Black Ops" team of humans bent on protecting the secret that the characters will prolly try to discover.
> Imagine if you would, the geeks actually guarding an instillation (perhaps
> the secret of their existence is within) and they're pumping toxic gasses
> inside the building
Now that is a good idea!
Doug.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Our first session!
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:25:41 -0600
Don't forget the element of surprise. The party sees the slow moving shambling line of zombies coming towards them, they decide to take advantage of the speed difference and lure their rotting foes into a trap. Just moments before they are ready to push the button that will close the electronic gate and lock they zombies away, a zombie in the front of the line growls, "Get Them!" and suddenly, with a howl only the damned are capable of, they charge the bewildered PC's.
Steve Nelson
sdnelson@advancenet.net
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Another Problem with the Posted Material...
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 08:56:28 -0800
Okay. I know this is super-picky, like the whole "Cranes" vs "the Cranes" thing, but...
In the Priest bit, the book of the Bible is "Revelation," not "Revelations."
Thanks.
--Patrick Barrett
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] zombie toughness
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:18:43 -0500
Well, how tough a zombie should be depends on several factors. The main and most important kind of factor is what kind of zombie is it?
Think about it.
If it's a standard NothLD style zombie, then it aint muscles that'll kill ya. It's the sheer numbers. These zombies feel no pain, are slow, and have only rudimentary intelligence. In other words they recognize homes as dwelling places humans might be in, know to break windows or doors to get in, but they can't start fires, cars, or other such things. Also, they should be weaker than an average, healthy human. Their muscles are rotting after all. They get you by volume. One or even three on one should not be a match for a single man. But thirty of them, and the guy's in trouble unless he has a place to run.
However, a zombie from Return of the living dead is a lot more dangerous. These fellas have full use of thier brains, and are just as quick in death as they were in life. Now consider a zombie king from Deadworld. These are spirits that inhabit near dead bodies. Yep, near dead. They're intelligent, and actually stronger because they have no restrictions on their body from pain. They also heal. The other zombies are just like those from NotLD, but King Zombies are really dangerous because they also control the normal walking dead.
Then you want to think of other things. Climate plays an important part. For example, Zombies in Alaska would freeze in place until they thawed out, making them easy pickings, while zombies in Mexico might rot faster due to the extreme heat.
Do your zombies heal or get stronger after eating human flesh? Do they still rot? If so, do they rot normally, or slower than normal? Does eating living flesh retard the mortification process?
Zombies might be tougher than humans in some aspects, and far weaker in others. You just have to decide how you want to play it. Sure, I could go on for 6 more paragraphs citing how zombies can be tougher, or even weaker than humans, but this is just so you get a big picture, an overview of how powerful zombies ought to be. The answer is, as powerful as you want.
Personally, I dislike zombies that can bite right through a human skull, like those in RothLD. It is implausible, but if you want your zombies to be able to crack a skull with their teeth, then let them.
Hope this helps.
Ray "Zombie Dude" Johnson
moderator of Zombietown@onelist.com
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Resident Evil: Survivor
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:24:25 EST
Ok Im a big fan of the RE series and just got RE3 for XMas (drool - yes I'll be incommunicado for a few days), and plan to get the Dreamcast when RE Veronica ships, but how do you think RE will handle under a first person shooter platform?
--George Vasilakos, Eden Studios, Zombie Lord
First-Person Resident Evil Planned
Resident Evil Survivor is a first-person shooter for the PlayStation scheduled for release in April 2000. An extension of the story from the Resident Evil series, this title puts players in the role of a mysterious pilot.
Although the Umbrella Corporation has destroyed Raccoon City, another city has been infested with the mysterious t-virus. A man rushes to his helicopter trying to flee a nightmarish scene. As the helicopter begins to hover, another man leaps and grabs the landing gear. Unable to fly away, a fight ensues between the two men and the helicopter crashes to the ground. As the pilot climbs away from the helicopter, fuel is ignited and causes the helicopter to explode. A concussion ensues and the pilot regains consciousness with total memory loss. Moving around in the environment reveals hidden secrets to the Resident Evil story.
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] Smart Zombies from "Wet Work"
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:14:57 -0600
For throwing a kink into the traditional stupid shambler zombies, take a page from Philip Nutman's short story & novel, both titled "Wet Work." A comet passes too close to earth, and the recently dead come back to life. They can reason, talk, and use all of their pre-death skills, plus they have augmented strength. Fortunately, most are preoccupied with finding food, so they follow the Romero pack-animal schtick.
The scariest part comes when some of the upper echelons in the White House die, and they don't mind being zombies. They begin to kill off the "worthy" members of government, and platoons of soldiers, so they will come back to life to create a NWO of zombiedom.
This leads to zombified army units, with armament and vehicles, raiding Washington, DC, to round up human "cattle" for the elite dead. There are also some zombified CIA assassins that possess all of their skills, agility, and cunning.
The "Wet Work" short story was in Skipp & Spector's "Book of the Dead--Volume 1," and "Wet Work" was expanded into a book. Both are out of print, but they are essential reading for those with a thing for zombies. Other recommendations include "Still Dead--Book of the Dead 2" and "Skeletons," by Al Sarantonio.
While "Skeletons" is not a zombie book, it follows the same idea. All of the dead of the world start to rise and they have an unholy hatred for the living. These just aren't recently dead people, but ALL of the dead. This leads to some interesting scenarios, such as animal skeletons attacking their living counterparts, dinosaur fossils on the loose, plus the billions of human skeletons that want to kill the living. Fortunately, the skeletons can be killed with relative ease. Unfortunately, there are multitudes of them.
One of the main characters of the book is, in fact, Abraham Lincoln, who is revived and must deal with his peaceful nature being perverted to kill humanity. Some great scenes include Julius Ceasar starting a military campaign across Europe, Lincoln re-killing the revived John Wilkes Booth, and Genghis Khan on the rampage.
One of the most terrifying moments is that the skeletons have taken over, and they are systematically killing all human beings. They even start using satellites and sonar/radar to track humans that hide in mine shafts deep in the earth.
Check 'em out.
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Subject: Re: [Flesh_rpg] Re: Y2Hype is over..and we live.
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:52:23 EST
In a message dated 1/1/00 8:26:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, dpirko@home.com
writes:
<< Definitely a connection between Russians and Zombies... >>
Well if the Ruskies (I love that jingoistic term) had anything to do with bringing back the dead, I hope it comes back and bites them on the butt. Maybe their past transgressions like the Katyn Massacre (Quick History lesson - The Russians made thousands of Polish officers disappear during WWII. At least 4000 of them were executed and buried in the Katyn Forest and then the Ruskies tried to blame it on the Nazis when it was found out) will result in a little undead payback.
I was thinking about designing a one-shot for my group (I like to run a one-shot for my group about every fourth game to act as a "pressure release" from our normal campaign, what ever that may be at the time) based upon an alternate history where the Katyn zombies have practically done in the Russians, weakened the Germans and advanced to the allied lines. Something epic requiring the PC's to get the Spear of Destiny from Nazi hands to allow the dead to return to their eternal sleep.
Gotta love it. Zombies and Nazis.
Jon
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Subject: [Flesh_rpg] zombie flicks
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:20:35 -0500
What is the best zombie flick you've ever seen? Novel? Comic book? Other media?
Ray "Zombie Dude" Johnson