Q: It's certainly -- are you saying that the material that you found on this knife blade is consistent with the material that makes up this screen right here?

A. That's right.

Q. You couldn't see any difference?

A. That's right.

Q.And generally associated with a self-inflicted -- say a suicide, for example, or attempted suicide. Don't you have what are frequently referred to is as hesitation wounds?

A. They may be present.

Q: Okay. And, this is just a situation where the individual, once they cut the skin say, maybe it's not that good of an idea after all, and then they jerk back or stop and then they get a little more. And you will see a lot jerks in the outer portions of the skin, won't you?

A: Yes, you may.

Q: And … isn't it fair to say, that her wounds are, in the neck, are quite deep for hesitation wound

A: Well, not necessarily.

Q. With regards to the wine rack, sir, did you see any evidence whatsoever that someone had run into that wine rack while leaving the residence?

A: No.

Q. Would you, based on your 39 years of experience, would you expect an intruder leaving this scene to go through the gate, close it and then latch it -behind him before he left?

A. Not that difficult of a swinging gate, but I wouldn't expect any intruder to shut a gate when they were fleeing.

Q. One final area: Sir, when you came to the conclusion that no intruder had come into that house, did you base that decision on one factor or several factors?

A Many factors.

Q: Could you please list those factors for us at this time?

A. … There were no signs of entry or exit from somebody coming in at night from the outside, the type of cutting on the screen is inconsistent with the average or the known ways to enter … The dust on the sill, criminals normally are not concerned with their footprints, footprints or heel prints or cloth prints from their clothing, they are not aware that we can make weave and cloth pattern comparisons. So anyway, there wasn't any signs that I could see of the entry and exit. There was no blood and so forth. The trail through the garage, going in, I didn't expect to find a lot through there on the initial entry of an intruder. When the intruder got in, the fact that a knife was found in a knife block to commit the offenses with, is inconsistent with the burglar that just came in and cut a screen. It's equivalent to coming in with one knife, putting it up and looking for another knife to commit the crimes with

Two: There were -- there was a lot of jewelry, and property laying in plain view, and none of this was disturbed or touched… The wounds on the two boys were approximately the same, that is deep, penetrating wounds. The wounds to the defendant were different in context, different styles of wounding… the complainant didn't give any words or statements that the intruder said. This is unusual. I have never worked an offense where somebody was fighting with a live victim, especially a man against a woman, to where vulgarity was not used, as well a lot of threats, that was not there. The cuts, they told me that she was cut on the neck and on both sides of her shoulder and arm. To fight an assailant, you should, there should have been some cast off blood, which from flailing of the arms and movement, and I didn't find any cast off blood, on the glass table top, on walls, on arm level, high up… there was the glass on the floor, the vacuum cleaner and barefoot prints. There was no footprints other than the bare foot prints. There was no shoe or boot prints present… some of the glass was on top of the bare foot prints, which would indicate the glass was placed there on top of the bloody footprints… there should have cuts and scratches on her feet after stepping on sharp glass from the wine glass, broken glass. And that was not there. There was no trail of bloody footprints leading from across the kitchen. And, if the defendant had been stabbed either in the kitchen near the family room or in the family room and bleeding like she was, there should have been bloody footprints. Left a lot of bloody footprints by the kitchen sink. The garage door, that is the utility room leading into the garage door, there was some blood on the edge of the door which consistent with somebody touching it and looking out through there, shutting it, or whatever, however it got there. I can't say what they were doing, but blood was on the edge of the door. There were dropped blood straight down or very slow movement droplets of blood on the utility room floor, going to and from the family room across the kitchen floor. Outside in the garage, the lack of any blood at all… the fact that the gate was so difficult to open and shut is inconsistent that somebody would have committed a crime like this and gone to the great care of shutting a gate behind them and latching it. It's just inconsistent with somebody fleeing a murder with a living witness that is armed. The intruder is supposed to have dropped the knife in the utility room floor. I have never known someone to arm their victim, which is what this would have been equivalent to. And, all of these put together, the vacuum cleaner on top of the bloody footprints, in my opinion, no intruder committed these offenses.

Q. All right. What is the next thing that you all did then?

A: Again, we went back into the house, and as you stand in the front entryway hall, you can evaluate the family room and the kitchen. And, at that time I asked Miss Long to check other bathrooms for occult or latent blood that you cannot see, as if someone had washed up. And then I focused my attention on the kitchen sink.

Q: All right. And when you looked at the kitchen sink, what was its appearance?

A: It was unusual. It -- the sink portion had been cleaned of blood, and the blood stains on the front of the cabinet, were such that when that blood was being shed, it would also need to be shed into the sinks, which was now clean. So, it was my opinion that the sinks had probably been cleaned of blood.

In the prosecution's closing arguements, Mr. Shook said : And that sock ... it's only the boys blood found on that sock, and not her blood. If that killer was in there with a sock on his hand, stabbing those boys and slashing her, and in a struggle don't you know that her blood would be on that sock, but it's not." (italics added)

Q. All right. Now, did you or Miss Long, in your presence, open up the doors to that cabinet?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. All right. And, did you see anything unusual when you opened up the doors to the cabinet?

A. There was blood present inside the cabinet, consistent with the door having to have been opened when the blood was shed.

Q. All right. So, in your opinion, was there blood on, on the facing or the outside of the cabinet, that was consistent with having been deposited there when the doors were closed?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Was there also blood inside that was consistent with having been dropped while the doors to the cabinet were actually open?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what was inside that cabinet?

A. As I recall, it was the usual under the sink, kitchen-cleaning materials, cleanser and stuff.

Q: Now, did you instruct Miss Long to --tual blood samples from the kitchen sink area?

A. Yes, sir.