Dip 1192 Colonial
A draw between China and Britain (with a caveat that Turkey played
honourably)
Rules (Judge file / Errata )
Click on the hyperlinked names for the EOG
Players
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Name |
Nation |
Duration |
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GM: |
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Spring 1870-end |
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Players: |
Britain |
Spring 1870-end |
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|
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China |
Spring 1870-Winter 1876 |
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|
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France |
Spring 1870-Fall 1872 |
|
|
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Marshall Sherman |
Japan |
Spring 1870-end |
|
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Seth Gillum |
Turkey |
Spring 1870-end |
|
|
Holland |
Spring 1870-end |
|
|
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Randy Hall |
Russia |
Spring 1870-Fall 1873 |
Supply Centres
|
Year |
70 |
71 |
72 |
73 |
74 |
75 |
76 |
77 |
|
Britain |
12 |
14 |
16 |
17 |
16 |
16 |
18 |
18 |
|
China |
9 |
10 |
11 |
14 |
14 |
14 |
15 |
15 |
|
France |
4 |
4 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
|
Japan |
7 |
9 |
9 |
8 |
10 |
10 |
10 |
10 |
|
Turkey |
4 |
6 |
7 |
8 |
7 |
7 |
4 |
4 |
|
Holland |
5 |
8 |
10 |
11 |
11 |
11 |
11 |
11 |
|
Russia |
7 |
6 |
5 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
History
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On elimination Thank you all for the entertaining, but sadly brief (from a french point of view) dip game. I have little to say, except to ask that britain hold onto the french territory he took from me. It's been my belief from the beginning of the game that Britain won't be able to hold the French homeland, ceding/ losing it to holland/china, who are much larger threats to Britain than France. Hope you prove me wrong, Randolph. Good luck to all the remaining players At game end Don’t worry, this EOG won’t be much longer than my time in the game. First, I’m not sold on the Turkey played honorably bit. My memory could be wrong, but who was first to stab in the russia/turkey thing? If I’m right, I’d change it to “Turkey usually played honorably” or perhaps “except for a brief bit in the beginning, Turkey played honorably. There were some strange moves in the game, but I must commend Britain on trying to hold onto the eastern side of indochine. I thought Randolph had no chance of holding on to my territory, but he almost made it work. Which surprised me. Nice work. I was also surprised at the complaints of China that Holland and Japan are too strong. I agree, but that’s why you don’t help take out your little neighbor to the south, a viable France can change that equation. Lastly, I’d love to know how Randolph convinced China not to stab him when he could have pulled five British centers and Holland was also offering an attack on Japan if China stabbed. Brilliant Dip? A better offer? China just had a different game plan? Thank you all for the game. And a special thanks to Stephen for running the game. You were super. |
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First of all, I hope you’ve all learned not to vote for 30 supply centres as the victory condition next time :-) My guilty secret is that I’d never actually come across Colonial before this game, but I was asked to GM so I researched it on the net and thought it looked quite fun. Most of the fun seems to happen right at the start while everyone sorts themselves out. The rock solid alliances that stopped the flow of the game might not always happen, though. I’ll leave the strategic thinking to those who have played the game. Thanks to everyone for playing; I particularly enjoyed the closer community feel of the game compared to some of the others I run. I also believe Seth deserves an honourable mention for filling in when Tynan was away. See you in the next one. |
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Hi to everyone, please allow me to submit some words too. Of course I am glad about the outcome of the game :-). Many thanks to Stephen for having GMed this game, to Randolph for being a very good ally throughout the whole game and for Carleton for taking up China after I had completely lost interest in the game, and to all other players for a most challenging game. I enjoyed it too to the most parts. At first I enjoyed playing this variant, but then I realized that it has some flaws, which I have explained earlier. Some powers really haven't got the chance to win, and some can't be eliminated at all. Anyway I am looking forward to meet you all again in a new game, |
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didn't play enough to have much to say.... but the map seems fun and would be interested next time this variant starts up - See Ya Around - Carleton |
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Thanks to Steven for a nicely run game. I like the Colonial variant, and I
recognize that it's a bit more work than a standard game, so I appreciate the
extra effort. I suppose the game was
rather stagnant down the stretch, but I didn't enjoy it any less. I'm relieved to have it over with
though. Still I think that the
stonewalling we saw here was due more so to alliance dynamics and personal
relationships rather than flaws in the map.
I'm always up for another Colonial game. Some prespective from Britain: I looked at the draw of nation assignments and
quickly saw that Seth and Andy were in powerful positions and France and
Holland. I didn't want them hooking
up against me, and made great efforts to assure that they wouldn't be. As Britian in this game you need to talk
to everyone and try to be everyone's friend.
It did this fairly well and had a great first year. But eventually you have to fight someone,
and I chose Seth's France as my first target because a) he wasn't willing to commit
to an alliance with me; and b) he's a damn good player, and too good to be
alive and not on your side! Seth has complained of France's weakness, but I
disagree with that view. France got
whacked early in this game not because the position sucks, because I
organized both China (Thomas) and Holland (Andy) against him. I struck up a good relationship with
Thomas and convinced him to go after France with me, and I made enough
territorial concessions to Andy (too many perhaps) to keep him from allying
with Seth. France got hit hard and
early, and from all sides. It really
sucked to see Seth eliminated from the game so early, but that was after all
my objective. My relationship with Thomas' China continued to
flourish and we both share equal risks throughout the game with unit
placement. But after passing on
several chances each to stab each other it became clear that we had a nice
functional alliance going. Regular communication
helped keep things good, and even though we often disagreed on tactics, we
kept our pact solid. I'm happy that
the game finished with me still allied to China, and commend Carleton for
having faith in me to carry on with a replacement player under the old terms
of the Britain/China alliance. I did
consider breaking this alliance at times, but neither Holland nor Japan ever
offered a feasible plan for doing so.
Andy and I cam close to a plan, but then we botched our orders and our
units fell out of position for several turns. We we realligned them for a series of (potentially) wild and
game breaking convoys, the necessary trust and comfort level was not
there. And when I examined everything
overall Thomas had been too good an ally to stab, and certainly too good to
stab for less than a solo. I had a good relationship with Turkey, but
after France went down Turley was mauling Russia, and Thomas was pressing me
hard to hit Turkey. Doing so also
appeased Andy in Holland, and I was able to strike effectively against the
Turks. While the conquest was slow,
it was deliberate, and this suited my needs because it allowed for regular
growth but not so that it alarmed China into thinking that I might turn on
him. I enjoyed early good relations
with Tynan, but our communication faltered, and ultimately I felt that China
was a better ally for me, in part because Holland always seemed to be lurking
there waiting for me to skirmish with China and perched to strike from strong
positions in the Andaman and Java Seas. I was hoping to see Holland go after Japan, and
if he had, I might have chosen to work with him against China. But Andy was always wanting me to make the
first moves while holding his fleets in dangerously effective places against
me if he should stab. Andy and I have
worked very well together in the past, but in this game we never really got
it going beyond my appeasment actions
in Malaya and Singapore in return for his lack of intervention in my war
against France. Marshall's Japan was well played, and I've
seldom seen Japan get such a foothold into the mainland. That was fun to watch even though my
friend Thomas always seems to be getting the short end of things. I'm sorry that some of you may feel that I was
too inflexiblke for sticking to my alliance with China, but honestly I never
felt that there was a better offer on the table. Well, I can go on for hours, but it's time for bed. Good to see all of you old friends again in this one, and I hope to see both old and new friends in games to come. |
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First of all, Stephen, thanks for doing all this. I always respect people to come in and GM a game in general, and even more so when they choose to do a variant they've never played before. Especially one with strange rules like the TSR. Great job Stephen. I hoped that the victory criteria of 30 in this game (as opposed to the usual 24) would somehow change my usual complaint that Colonial always ends in a draw. But maybe the 30 is even worse. What frustrated me a lot in this game is I felt (and others did too) that Thomas had an early chance to go for a solo, and didn't take it. He went for the British alliance instead. Then Randolph had a brilliant chance to try for a solo. And also didn't take it. Instead choosing to just grind out this draw that ultimately happened because myself and others just got bored. I mean, even Thomas, who was PART of the alliance, got bored. What I love about Diplomacy is when the play is dynamic, the discussion is thrilling, people are lying and backstabbing eachother, alliances shift, the balance of power shifts, you attack here, you defend there, and then it all reverses. None of that happened in this game, as far as I'm concerned, starting about four or five years into the game. From that point on, it became stagnant, predictable, the table talk minimized significantly, deadlines would get missed, there would be long stretches between deadlines with nothing really exciting happening, and noone tried to grab that solo, ultimately leading to a very obvious Britian/China vs. the world kind of game. Since Turkey is so far away from both Holland and Japan, we couldn't do anything to help him. And for what seemed like an eternity, absolutely nothing significant happened in the Eastern part of the world. Look at the map from the past, what is it, seven, eight seasons? Maybe a center or two changed hands, but that's it. The rest was stagnant. Japan and I were forced into an alliance due to survivial. I guess I just wish there were more CHANCES taken in this game. I didn't see a lot of them. It felt like people played way too safe. And not just China and Britian either. Hell, I probably even played a little safer than I normally do. It almost felt like that was the nature of this game. Safe play. But I'd like to end on a positive note, and say it was once again enjoyable to play with Marshall, Seth, Randolph and Randy. I played with Tynan and Thomas for the first time. Tynan and I didn't really get to discuss much because of how far away we were from eachother, but he did play honorably. :) And Thomas and I had some rough times there in the middle, but we eventually sorted it all out and ended on good terms, which is what it's all about. It's all about having fun. Hope to play again with you guys, but in a different variant. |
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My thoughts in bullet point: - I
have a lot to learn about this game. - I agree that everyone played too safe.
Sometimes that's the dynamic you end up with. - the only reason I stayed in the game as long
was because I threatened to slash and burn and assist the other guy, if
either Russia or England attacked. It's not a very fun dimplomatic strategy.
Aslo, England knew that as long as I was kept at check, he would eventually
crush me anyway. - I kept waiting for someone to do something to
England so I could get in the game. - I felt that early on -- once England was
making a major grab of territories -- it was apparent that he would grow very
large, veryfast, and that Japan and Holland should have worked with restoring
France. Instead, they bickered over key strategic locations, and lost the
chance to keep England at bay. Which
means Turkey is dust, France is dust, and now everyone gets into a cyclical
bickering pattern about how boring the game is and why isn't China doing
something to England, because we surely didn't do anything when we had the
chance because we had alliances and were hoping that China would do
something, so why didn't China do anthing.... - Neither China nor England backstabbed, but I
really think it's because they couldn't strike a healthy relationship with
anyone else. So I can't blame them. But come on - it's just game - take a
chance!!! Great Diplomacy is the
ability to make your enemy your friend, and keep your friends thinking your
friends until you can make them your enemy and then squash them. - In other words: Draws are for wussies. - Good diplomacy also requires lots of
communication. And I failed miserably after the first couple of years. More
because of personal issues, but also because nobody did anything to warrant
dedicating time to the game. - So, perhaps I'll try this again, and look
forward to playing with any/all of you. - Oh, and just to clarify, when I spoke of playing "honorably" I was intentionally using a double meaning. More aligned with the definition of great reknown or illustrious: 1 : notably or brilliantly outstanding because of dignity or achievements or actions. But also hoping I would leave people with the lasting impression that I never went back on my word -- which Seth caught -- touche. |
