Dip 1233 – Stab!
Non-blind maps (zipped Realpolitik file)
Click on the hyperlinked names for the EOG
Players
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Winter 1900-end |
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Winter 1900-Fall 1905 |
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Dave (diplomat61) |
Winter 1900-Fall 1904 Winter 1904-end |
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Winter 1900-end |
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Winter 1900-end |
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Winter 1900-Fall 1904 |
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Winter 1900-Fall 1905 |
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Winter 1900-end |
EOG Statements
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Despite running four of these Stab! games, I’m probably not qualified to imagine the struggle that must go into trying to work out what’s been going on. Suffice it to say, I’m always impressed with whoever manages to get to grips with the game and work effectively while half-blinded. Well done to all, but especially Chris. This was a surprisingly quick affair, which might lead people to believe that Turkey might have some great advantage in a blind variant. As it happens, the two other finished games saw a win from Russia and a draw for England, France and Turkey, while game 1232 is currently led by Germany on 8 centres. While Turkey is undoubtedly strong, it was not overwhelming popular in the country preferences - as many of you put it on your bottom three as in the top three. Part of Turkey’s ascendancy was owed to Austria declaring war on both Italy and Russia in 1901, without even taking Serbia. While it took advantage of the variant’s blind nature and swiped Italy’s centres at high speed, Turkey was able to grow a build a formidable mass of units to overwhelm him. Concentrating on just Italy might have helped ensure his demise in time to face Turkey. Germany and France managed to build secure power bases, but a stop-the-leader alliance was too hard to build without even the aid of deliberate misorders to communicate. |
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First congrats to Chris! Second, thanks to Stephen. This was actually the most fun I have had in a dip game in quite some time indeed. There really isn't much to say about it all though. I tried to go after SWE early on and ran up against RUssia right away. At some point I discovered that England was closer than I liked so I worked on trying to get at them both. I met with limited success since England managed to get into a spot where I did not have much to get him out with. I hoped France was with me and as it turned out he was. Then I saw the Turkish progress and I knew trouble was headed my way. I tried harder to get rid of ENgland and I prayed France was heading after his home dots. I was also hoping France saw what Turkey was up to and was moving fleets south, but from the maps it looks like he had other concerns. Fortunately France never came after me nor I him but unfortunately that was not enough. In the end I gambled that Turkey did not have that army in LVN and I debated supporting STP again. But I needed to get that SWE fleet in to cover BER and KIE so I gambled, and lost. The only comfort I have in that is that he went to 20 so even if I had covered it he still would have soloed. I had most of the map right most of the time but there was no way to stop Turkey until I finished off England. Oh well. Maybe next time. Congrats again Chris, that was very well played indeed. Stephen, if you run another one, count me in. |
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I came into the game as a replacement, taking over a country with just three units and horribly out of position. I would have attempted to make friends with my neighbors, but there is essentially no way to do that. Supports are not listed unless the supported move is disputed and the support is uncut. Invalid support, by rule, is never listed. With no press, either, you can't really let your neighbor know you'd rather not fight them, unless you happen to be in the exact right place at the exact right time. That's not terribly likely. As I suggested to Stephen as the game was being played, in my estimation the no press version of the game would work better if players were allowed to selectively designate orders for their own units - valid or not, so long as the ordered units were clearly identified - to be broadcast to the rest of the world. In that way, they could at least advertise friendship or suggestions for cooperative actions, albeit at the cost of revealing the locations of their units. As it stands, I would guess that no-press versions of this variant almost never will end in a draw, unless the players simply get tired of riding the see-saw of fortune. There is essentially no way to form a solid stalemate line except by sheer luck. Similarly, there will be more than the usual number of eliminations and quick wins. I also asked Stephen during the course of the game if he would care to bet on whether I would survive long enough to witness the Turkish victory. Like a good GM, he didn't respond, but I know he was dying to put down a wager. Hey, Stephen: I WIN! |
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I had thought I'd need to be apologizing for not putting this out sooner, but it would appear that I needn't have worried. There certainly hasn't been a rush to post the EOGS. Perhaps I can get the ball rolling again. I would very much like to hear from any or all of you. Please don't be put off by the length of my statement. I'm long-winded to a fault, and the fact this game was gunboat just makes it worse. I haven't been able to talk to anybody about what's been happening (except Stephen, and he wasn't allowed to comment). First, I have to say it: I love this game! Not just this particular game, but the whole concept of Stab! Of course, I thought I would, but I was a little wary, too. Needless to say (so why are you...) I loved it from the first move, the first map, long before I had any kind of success. One thing about it was that the ability to maneuver in secret offered some really unique opportunities that you don't get in a conventional game. On offense, especially, I felt that it enabled me to think in terms of two-or-three move combinations. I found myself slipping into a pattern where I'd use Spring to set up an attack (or multiple attacks) and then dropping the hammer in the Fall. In many cases, a defender who could have seen my Spring moves would easily have determined my Fall objective and blocked it. Instead, in the fog of war he is forced to guess, and luckily for me, I guessed right more often than wrong in this game. And then, once I had a few extra units, it was possible to send some off in unexpected (or at least unpredictable) directions. In a similar fashion, I enjoyed that my opponents could do the same thing to me. Where were those missing German armies? Where were the French fleet(s)? I liked not knowing for sure. It introduced an extra degree of uncertainty that I found exciting. And this didn't just apply to anticipating season-by-season tactics, but to trying to suss out their strategies, too. Since I couldn't see where or what the other guy is building, I found it all the more important to construct a one or two alternate scenarios and plan for multiple possibilities. Third, I just had a ball with the part of it that was one big logic puzzle. How did the German army end up in Finland? Where are the possible locations of the missing Austrian units. If Italy has 2 centers, and one of his units is in Vienna, how did he lose that second home dot? I loved the "Aha" feeling when I finally figured out where a piece was that had gone missing three seasons earlier, and I could reconstruct its path. Let me say a few things about the way this game played out. First off, I think Stephen hit it on the head when he identified Austria's opening as the key to the East. It was actually a very bold strategy he had to ignore the Balkans and go after both Italy and Russia in 1901. What is more interesting is that he actually pulled it off at the beginning, and then it was his own success that ended up dooming him in the end. We're used to seeing that in standard dip, where early leader syndrome often leads to a stop the leader effort by the others, but that isn't what happened here. As you all know, that kind of alliance is rare and difficult in gunboat. The Archduke was clever in choosing Italy and Russia as his enemies. It was a safe bet that Turkey wasn't going to take Serbia in 1901 (and I didn't) and he was rightfully confident that Russia and Italy were never going to be able to coordinate against him. The only real drawback to the plan was that it did make him two enemies in 1901. They weren't powerful. They couldn't kick him out of their home centers or mount much of a counter-attack, but each of them had one good opportunity to repay the Archduke, and in both cases, the biggest beneficiary was your humble Sultan. Russia got his revenge first. In Fall 1902 he supported my army Bulgaria into the vacant Serbia. Along with my own support from Greece, this allowed me to overpower the two new Austrian armies in Budapest and Trieste that were trying to claim Serbia. Naturally, I repaid this good deed by simultaneously destroying the Russia fleet in Sevastopol, and taking Rumania the following Spring. C'est le guerre! Sorry, my friend. Italy's revenge followed shortly thereafter. Instead of choosing to stay back and defend the boot, he sent one of his armies around through Tyrolia and into Vienna. I don't mind telling you I danced around my chair when that was subsequently revealed. This was perfect for me. Austria had 5 units, but they were too spread out to effectively defend. One army was in Italy, shuttling back and forth between Rome and Naples, trying to guess when the Turkish fleet would strike. (It didn't, but headed into the Adriatic instead.) One army was in Warsaw, playing pat-a-cake with Russia and, for a while, Germany, over Moscow. (Another break for me, as it left me free to do as I wished in Sev, Ukr and Gal.) So all that were left at home, so to speak, were two armies and a fleet that couldn't get out of Venice. Clearly not enough to do the job. Budapest and Trieste fell quickly, while I made sure that Vienna stayed in the hands of the Italian. Then I let Austria take Vienna while I surprised (?) him by taking away Venice and Warsaw. At this point the solo was in sight, it was just a question of whether or not France and/or Germany could muster up a defense in time. It was one of those situations where I knew I could get 17, but 18 might be a problem. A worst case scenario for me had France flooding the Med with all his fleets. Luckily for me that didn't happen. My closing strategy was focus on moving all my strength to the front, keeping as many hidden as possible, so that I could take all the dots I needed in one turn. That's why, for instance, I ignored the French fleet when it took Rome from me, and just kept moving on into Gulf of Lyon and the Western Med. That turned out to be the right decision, and the game was over one year later. Obviously, I am very pleased with the result. I was especially pleased when I saw what an illustrious group had gathered to play this game! :-) I thought I played as well as I could, virtually mistake-free, but I'm very much aware that I benefited from some pretty good fortune in the early years. I would leap at the chance to play this variant again. When's the next one Stephen? Or maybe you could convince someone else to give it a go as GM? I'm betting you would love the chance to play yourself. Thanks very much to Stephen for running a great game, and putting up with my monologues when it was just too much for me not to be telling someone what was going on in my head. Thanks and well met to all the other players, old friends and new, I hope. I look forward to doing it all again with you some day soon. |
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I wasn't quite sure how this game was going to play out, I definitely saw the opportunities that Austria had for a quick thrust into War, but I figured that I had to gamble one way or the other, and hope that Austria went for Turkey or Italy instead. I decided for an opening to concentrate in the north, trying to take Swe with support (and once there, Nwy). My hope was for a fairly standard set of openings in the south from Turkey and Austria, which would let me take Rum. As Turkey pointed out, Austria made bold attacks on both Italy and me. The attack from Austria combined with Germany trying for Swe as well with support (why couldn't you focus on the west? :-), quickly saw my fortunes headed down. I still wonder how different it would have been if I'd taken Swe and been able to build an army for defense in Mos. Probably wouldn't have changed the overall outcome, but I might have been able to hold out a little longer. <back to reality> I felt like my game was over even before it began. I simply tried to do what I could to keep my remaining centers, and try to turn Turkey into a friend with support for attacks on Austria. Both strategies failed. My only consolation is that Austria was eliminated the same year that I was ;-) Looking back at my orders to Stephen, here's a message I sent him with my Spring '02 orders, "I suspect I'm pretty much screwed. Interesting variant, I obviously didn't think far enough outside the box (or I thought too far outside ;-)" I think I would have paid more attention to trying to figure out where units were, if it wasn't so obvious around my centers, since most of the neighboring units were attacking me ;-) (I also found it funny that in fall '01 all four of my units showed up on the map -- hard to move with stealth at that point :-) Congratulations to Chris -- well thought out
strategy, and perfectly played. |
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I normally don't indulge in the EOG but in a game which almost as much is hidden as is shown, why not? I too really enjoyed the different format and having to piece together everyone possible moves, locations and strategy. If anyone is planning to GM another I am definitely interested in playing again. In playing France I operated under the assumption that when Germany and France bump heads from the start, both them get off to a slower start and then are forced to react to everyone elses moves around them. As moves went on I took open Bel and left it and Bur to protect my northern flank. I picked up Spa and Por as France is always wont to do. I waited to see who would leave themselves open after failed expansion and then moved in behind to get some easy pickings. Some of England's home dots and Italy's after the Turk left them unprotected. Unfortunately I waited a move or so too long to start moving fleets into the Med and in the end I couldn't protect centres in Italy and Spain. I had hoped that someone could have at least slowed Turkey in the east, but in the end no one did and Turkey was well into the Med before I got there. Twas a good game and I would happily play another. Congrats' to Chris. Many thanks to Stephen for hosting. |
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Chris hit it right here. My previous gunboat experiences have shown
that Italy often moves to either Trieste or Piedmont rather than keeping that
Venice unit stationary, so I figured a bold strategy would be to neutralize
Venice before that could happen. This
committed two units to that goal, and the choice for the other unit was
either bug around in the Balkans, or head towards Russia. I decided on the bold strategy of hitting
Warsaw before Russia had any idea it was coming. I had planned to cede Greece to Turkey and pick up Serbia after
not too long. However, it was the
mucking around that the Russian and Italian did which did me in. I desperately wanted to get another fleet
built, so if I had managed to take Serbia in 1902 when I had first tried for
it, the build would have been F Trieste.
I figured that my blitzkrieg against Italy and Russia would have
neutralized them enough that Turkey would be my only threat. For that, I would need fleets, fleets, and
more fleets. I knew that that turn,
there was the possibility of bouncing in Serbia, but I had not even
considered that Russia would have aided there. Of course the next moves for the Turk against Russia were
predictable, but I had no way of alerting Russia of that. When Italy managed to find his way into Vienna,
right when I thought I had had him finished off, that was another major blow
to my strategy. I believe at the time
I was to be up to seven centers with a build coming to me, and any army in
Vienna would have been able to put more pressure on Ukraine or Rumania, where
there needed to be pressure. In the end, I just had to scramble on defense
against the Turk. I knew it was
likely that Munich was open a couple times I was in Tyrolia, but there was no
reason for me to poke at it (survival was less important than slowing the
Turk in my mind, he had gotten too lucky with help from my enemies). Adding this game to my most recent Austrian failures, I've now had spectacular failures in my last three times as Austria (out of five games! I'm lucky, huh). Anyone want to get a fourth failure started? :) |
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I came, I saw, I was conqured. That pretty much
sums up the game for me. I thought I might slip into Tyr but it was not to
be. I didn't think Austria would leave me with no choice but he didn't so I
decided since I was going out I was going to take Austria with me if I could.
I did so I did acheive my one objective. I wish I had more time in this game but it was
fun. Anyone want to play again? |
