Comments on Vipassana (Jhanic) Experiences
* Back to my home page: www.suzaki.has.it
Contents
Retreat 1, day 8: Making LOVE with the Universe
Retreat 3, day 8-10: Orgasmic Experience
My Comment to Jeff’s Experience
The first part is the comment to my experiences of Vipassana retreats by Jeff, an experienced meditator whom I met at the Jhana group at Yahoo! Message board. The second part is my comment to Jeff’s experience. One of the focus here is the Jhanic experience, in Jeff’s term, ecstatic experiences. Because of that, the reader may create a biased opinion of what meditation is, and what it may point. Some may even jump into conclusion. Without caution and experiential wisdom, this could negatively affect the progress. As mentioned by Mr. Goenka and others, proper guidance is needed especially at the early stage of the effort.
If interested in developing a more harmonious view, please also take a look at various files I posted at my home page for references. For the explorer of spiritual journey, here is the comment referred by R. H. Blyth on Shin jin mei:
“There is a treasure in the deep mountains; He who has no desire for it finds it.”
Good luck on your journey!
- Kio Suzaki (August 2003)
Hello
Kio, I enjoyed reading about your retreat experiences at the
Goenka retreats. I have been
having these kinds of experiences for
several decades, and some of
them are a part of my daily contemplative
practice. I am sure if you keep
up a daily practice you will find
these experiences becoming more
frequent.
I also had similar experiences
at the same retreat site, at North Fork
a few years ago, but I was
asked to leave on the 7th day, because of a
mild bobbing that my head was
doing at every sit, as a consequence of
those experiences. I am glad
that you weren't asked to leave as well.
I hope you don't mind if I take
the liberty to post here fragments
from your record that is posted
on your website. I believe your
subjective experiences are just
what we are looking for as a record to
support the validity of the
ecstatic contemplative experience. I have
also taken the further liberty
to comment to these fragments. I hope
you value my comments, which
are not in anyway meant to be a
criticism, but a support and
validation of your experience, and I have
given some small advice as
well, which is not meant just for you, but
anyone else here who might be
experiencing similar manifestations of
jhana.
Please see my comments
throughtout the following post
%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
> Hello, this is my first
introductory post. Briefly skimming through
> several posts, I am
already finding interesting discussion. Thanks
> for the invitation.
Excerpts from these URLs: http://www.oocities.org/suzakico/index.html
http://www.oocities.org/suzakico/vipassanareport.html
*
Making LOVE with the Universe:
It happened on this eighth day
at the first afternoon sitting. I was
sitting quietly as everybody
else focusing on scanning sensations at
different parts of my body. As
I was going through this, I felt my
body empty and no blockage
observed. Of course, it may be just that
they are not surfaced because
of my lack of scanning and sensing
ability. We are to keep
continuing the eradication continuously.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
The calming of the body and the
stilling of the mind is typical
symptomology for someone
entering shamata, calm abiding, which I
believe is a necessary
pre-condition for jhana to arise.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
As mentioned before (5th day:
tender palms), my hands were moist and
tender. Sometime into this
sitting, I was trying to see if I can
"sweep the mass"
without knowing what that exactly means or how to do
it exactly. I felt that
sweeping from top (head) to bottom (toes) and
bottom to top was not so easy
and felt cumbersome in doing it. Then, I
realized that my palms were
very sensitive and felt the tingling
sensation that I mentioned
before. At the beginning, it was like small
air bubbles bursting on the
surface of the water, i.e., my palms.
Then, it was like some small
electric sparks discharged around my
palms. More I paid attention,
more sparks were generated. From
tingling sensation, the
sensation got intensified as if there was a
chain reaction of these sparks
started to happen.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I have found for my self, and I
have heard others report, a
sensitivity or tingling in the
palms as well which appears to be a
typical manifestation or as the
Pali canon is translated as 'sign' of
jhana. I prefer to use for
'sign' manifestations, symptoms or conditions.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
"This is funny." so I
thought. Instead of continuing to work on
sweeping in mass, I then
started to focus on the palms and paid more
attention there. Then, I felt
strong energy in my palms further
intensified, making me feel
like it is ready to enhance its power and
spread to the other parts of
the body. I felt the strong energy and
electrifying feeling in both
palms and spreading to arms and shoulders
as I shifted my attention. I
also felt similar sense at my toe. So, I
paid attention there and to see
if it may spread up the legs. My body
and mind were fully engaged in
observing this happening.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I believe the typical teaching
from experienced jhana yogis is, when
the 'sign' (symptoms of jhana)
begin to emerge, is when the
concentration technique
(Vipassana) should be relinquished, as you did.
The typical error in the
meditation teachers, who were not properly
trained in jhana and
satipatthana, is to tell their students to ignore
the symptoms of jhana and
remain with the concentration technique.
This I believe is why the
typical Vipassana practitioner does not
experience jhana.
It has been my experience that
students often experience jhana in the
first retreat if properly
trained.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
About this time, I slowed down
my breathing a little. I did this
because if I slightly wait in
my breathing, I could feel that energy
could flow into my body much
more smoothly from my soles. It made me
to feel like sucking the energy
by slightly withholding the breathing
and focused on the filling up
of energy. While this is going on, I
felt that I could spread this
sensation to other areas by shifting
attention. Free flow was the
word Mr. Goenka used to characterize the
sense when there was no
blockage felt. Certainly, the areas I paid
attention were like open
conduits for this energy/sensation to travel
without any resistance. As
areas of this sensation spread out to wider
areas of my lower body, it had
no sign of weakening its energy level
but intensifying by
itself.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I have found that learning to
control the energy, as you are doing, is
central to deepening the jhana
experience. And, that 'control' is
intimately connected to the
breath, and your directed awareness, as
you have found.
I believe learning to 'control'
the 'energy' is all part of the
enlightenment factor called
"raising energy." The more experience you
gain with this 'energy' the
more you will find that you will be able
to easily move the energy about
your body. You will also find that by
moving this 'energy' around
your body you will be able to heal your
body of maladies. You may also
find that you can not only use this
for healing your body, but you
can use it to heal another's body as well.
It is my opinion that the
Theravadan concept of the enlightenment
factor of "raising energy'
is the same as the yoga concept of raising
Kundalini. And, on the subject
of kundalini and chakras I suddenly
become a Vajrayanist, because
they call the kundalini 'Lung,' the wind
channel. While Theravadans tend
to reject the concept, they debate
what the historic Buddha meant
by "raising energy," but they tend to
reject the Yoga concept of
Kundalini without offering anything more
substantive than "enthusiasm"
for the Buddha's intention.
Your experience here seems to
me somewhat reminiscent of the Kundalini
experience, but I believe it
isn't quite yet a classic Kundalini
experience, because you are a
bit new to it. With a few more of these
experiences and greater
concentration, I believe the experience will
become for you more definitely
kundalini like.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
Gradually, I felt more energy
welling up from my tip of the toes and
sole, thus filling up my lower
torso with highly activated energy
which is accompanied by mass of
tingling or wavelike vibrating
sensation. Being playful as my
nature, and noticing that I can "move"
this sensation by shifting
attention from one spot to the next, I
decided to play with the
direction of the movement of this what I felt
as "life energy." So,
I moved the energy around as it followed my
direction immediately. Then, I
thought I may shift my attention and
lead this energy between the
palms. Palms were separated by the air
gap as they were positioned on
top of my right and left knees,
respectively. But, I could feel
that there was a strong field being
developed between my right and
left palms.
Then, I realized that I could
bounce back and force this sensation
between my palms very easily.
Surprised but not stopping there, I
experimented next to make a
loop from right palm to right leg, and
through my torso to left leg
and left palm and jump across to the
right palm to close this loop.
This flow of energy as represented by
sensation did exactly follow my
direction. Finding this amusing, I
next accelerated the flow like
rapidly moving it to following the
circular loop as may be done in
an accelerators of nuclear particles.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
When you get tired of playing
with the 'energy' you may find if you
bring it to focus on your
central channel (shashumna) and concentrate
your attention inward, you will
find the 'energy' will become
exceedingly powerful and lead
you to cessation.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
Not only it happened as I
shifted the attention, once gained momentum,
I did not have to pay much
attention as the flow was gaining power by
itself turning around and
around in this loop that was created in my
body. The lower part of my
torso had a very pleasant sensation - like
shivering and trembling - and
my penis got erected as if this
magnificent electro-magnetic
field or tingling sensation had some
influence on it. Now, the speed
started to increase by itself and its
power so strong that I felt my
heart started to pound louder and
louder. Also, my breathing got faster
and faster to shallow but fast
panting. Perhaps, this happened
as most of my body got engaged in this
sweeping flow of energy or
particles. Or, it was a transmission of
vibrations from one cell of the
body to the next with more and more
cells joining together.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
Your erection is not unusual,
and this is why the Shakti, as it is
called in the yogas, is related
to sexuality. Although erections are
by no means associated with all
kundalini experiences in males, or by
myself, but I have had a number
of correlated experiences. In fact I
left a post here to Dhammarato
Bhikkhu about a Kokopeli-like dream I
had a year ago. The dream was
also some what related to the concept
of the Irish Fairy and the
Classical period Greek concept of Mercury,
so much so, that I realized the
unity of these concepts that span the
globe.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
At this point, I was simply watching
this totally unexpected
happening. Then, perhaps
because of the strong circulating motion of
this energy, my left foot
started to jump up and down and started to
tap the floor, making a small
noise. This happened in spite of the
fact that downward pressure of
the weight of my body was applied on my
feet. In the mean time, the
circular flow of energy kept on going
round and round and my
heartbeat and breathing got harder and faster.
I felt like I have nothing I
could do and nowhere to go but let this
energy to flow and do whatever
it might. Funny thing is that my mind
was quite clear, just observing
what is going on. Even though my eyes
remained closed, I could hear
very clearly when a person slowly went
out of the Hall while another
person behind me made a tiny noise as I
went through this
experience.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
When kundalini has an external
manifestation, as above, it is often
called a 'kriya.' Kriya is a
Sanskrit word, that means literally 'to
move.' I believe this concept
refers to the central characteristic of
a kriya, which is the
spontaneous twitching, quivering, shaking or
quaking of a limb. I believe it
also refers to the concept that when
one is having a kriya,
kundalini, or Shakti, is on the move.
Kriyas can manifest as nothing
more than a quivering of the fingers,
to a rapid nodding or shaking
of the head, to spontaneous and dramatic
movements of any limb, to
full-body epileptic seizure-like shaking.
The point in understanding the
kriya, I believe is that when 'energy'
begins to 'rise' sometimes the
released energy can be greater than the
"channel,' 'conduit' or
nerves that it is traveling through. In such
a case the 'excess' 'energy'
can be shunted off to a limb.
The job of the yogi is just to
let these external manifestations occur
on their own without any
resistance. As the yogi matures, the
channels open up and clear out,
which produces much less kriya and a
lot more kundalini up the
central channel (shashumna).
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
While my mind remained calm, it
was still an unexpected event. At this
time my heart was like I have
just run a 100-meter dash. Then, my
breathing got so fast that I
thought other people might notice what
was happening with me. I felt
as my left nostril opened and closed
rapidly as I breathed harder
and harder. I felt I was covered by a
strong energy field and even
felt like my body emitting light because
of this intensive movement of
energy. Eventually, my whole body was
covered by this tingling
sensation except that my head remained calm.
In a way, I thought I wanted my
brain to be engaged in this
excitement. But, it did not
happen.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I have found that it is important
that the cognitive properties do not
engage in the manifestations of
jhana, because it has become clear to
me that jhana (ecstatic
absorption) requires shamata (calm abiding),
which is a still mind, and
equanimity to occur. And, shamata does not
seem to arise until the
cognitive processes of discursive thinking, as
well as sense perception, etc.
are suspended.
In the above manifestation, I
call it, for lack of a better English
word, 'haloing,' which is the
sensing of one's aura. The aura at this
time has no doubt also expanded
considerably to the point that the
those meditating in your
vicinity might have felt and/or seen your aura.
For those Theravadans, who may
be having some resistance to this
discourse on auras, chakras and
kundalini, because the Pali Canon does
not for some reason comment on
these manifestations, does not however
preclude their arrising during
a Theravadan style meditation retreat,
as you can see, just because
there is a lack of canonical support for
these manifestation.
I am sure that Kio and I are
not the only contemplatives who have
experienced these classic yogi
manifestations in a Theravadan context,
which I believe proves that the
aura, chakras and kundalini are not
just an elaboration of a
culturally specific contemplative practice or
belief system. And, thus it is
reasonable to conclude that there are
in deed certain common
manifestations of the ecstatic contemplative
experience that transcend the
constraints of cultural boundaries, in
spite of the resistance by many
less informed and somewhat orthodox
believers and promoters of
various religions. In fact, there is a
record of these manifestations
occurring in medieval Kabbalist,
Christian and Sufi mystics as
well, which I hope to be able to post
here as soon as I can repair my
hard drive, which will allow me to
recover a number of articles
about medieval saints with these
manifestations.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
Even though I cannot verify,
this intensive experience may have lasted
7-8 minutes or even 20 minutes
or more in total. I remember hoping
that the bell does not ring to
announce the end of this sitting
session, as my sensation was so
engaging and did not want it to be
over prematurely. In any case,
about five minutes or so before this
sitting was over, the energy
gradually dissipated and I came back to
the normal state.>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
Your manifestations may have
subsided due to your anticipation of the
bell. Just as a note, I often
sit with the intention that I will
remain in meditation, like the
Buddha on his night of enlightenment,
until my body turns to dust.
Because, I have found that when these
manifestations occur in their
extreme is a blessed opportunity that
one should not miss. So, I
remain until my bones turn to dust, or the
manifestations subside on their
own first, which so far has occurred
each time.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
Reflecting this, I felt that
the sensation I got was out of the world,
and the best way I could
characterize with my imagination is like
having my whole body turned
into a sensitive vagina with tingling
sensation covering all over. It
was as if I was making LOVE with the
universe, bringing me up to an
intensive yet blissful state. When I
went out of the Meditation Hall
in the break period, I was smiling. I
felt that this is why Vipassana
meditators are smiling happily, going
through such direct experience.
>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I don't believe the Hindu
emphasis on the erotic side of the ecstatic
experience is an aberration or
coincidence. At these times I too have
felt as though my entire body was
one giant erogenous zone, as a
consequence of my contemplative
practice. But, the experience is not
really sexual for me, it is
ecstatic and highly sensual in that all of
my senses are acutely
stimulated.
%%%%%%%%%
=====
Excerpts
from these URLs: http://www.oocities.org/suzakico/index.html
http://www.oocities.org/suzakico/vipassanareport3.html
Retreat 3, day 8-10: Orgasmic Experience
Day 8-10
Orgasmic Experience
I felt the orgasmic/nirvarnic
state for about one hour on the eighth
day in the afternoon. It was
very much a sexual kind as if I was in
continuous (cosmic?!) orgasm
lasting for about one hour. By the time
when I experienced this in this
retreat, I had gone through various
bodily sensations with subtle
vibrations passing through my whole body
(sweeping in mass). Having gone
through many of these, I felt tired
and did not want to keep trying
any more. I decided to rest and "just
observe" without making
any effort to try to do anything. (How
similar this state is for all
of my "awakening" experiences!)
In the beginning, I was
observing the subtle sensation here and there
in my body. It was a familiar
tickling wave-like sensations felt in
different parts of my body.
Rest yet, I paid attention to the
sensation fully. Also, I tested
to see if by paying attention to the
area of body adjacent to the
area of sensation, if the sensation
moves/propagates. (This is the
same process as I do in sweeping in
mass except that I did this in
a much gentler and gradual way.) I
simply explored to find out
what may happen.
What happened was the tsunami
wave-like sensation slowly traveled
through my body from right to
left, front, back, etc. in various
directions continuously as I
moved my attention. The sensation was
felt at the skin level as if
the wave was crashing with cells here and
there as it traveled. Also, it
was as if the wave or sparkling energy
cloud/fluid is moving while it
reacts with the internal organs as if
producing the chain reaction*.
The whole movement of this mass was
like a warm sizzling, or
sparkling sense – not too strong or violent
but very subtle and pleasant
(i.e., heavenly). It may be that my
trained sense of awareness
detected the subtlety of this nature**.
Throughout this experience, my
head remained calm and my body relaxed.
It was as if my body frame was
there and inside was a continuous
combustion of life energy.
>>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
These are also certainly common
characteristics of the ecstatic
contemplative experience that
fit into the kriya concept. Kriyas
don't have to be visibly
evident to be occurring.
%%%%%%%%%
Retreat 3, day 9
Experience as if I was Hit by a
Lightning
On the ninth day in the afternoon
meditation session at around four
o'clock, I felt like I was
floating in the air comfortably. At this
time, I lost interest to keep
on sweeping in mass as I was quite
"bliss-ed out" with
having experienced enough free flows. So, I
stayed quiet but was aware of
what was going on. Suddenly, out of the
blue, I sensed a tiny sensation
at the peripherals of my body – here
and there. In a split second,
as if these sensations gathered force
inside my body frame, I was
Zapped like by a lightening. >>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
It is good that you naturally
suspended the concentration technique as
the 'sign' or manifestations of
jhana began to arise. I have found
for jhana to arise, one must
learn to recognize the point at which
time one must suspend the
concentration technique, when one does, then
the ecstatic absorption deepens
remarkably.
It is to be understood that the
jhana yogi (ecstatic contemplative)
learns that the meditation
technique is simply a tool that one uses to
bring about the conditions of
ecstatic absorption (jhana). The
correct use of the tool
(meditation technique) is to let it go when
one doesn't need it any more.
One doesn't go on sawing when
the limb is severed, or hammering when
the nail has been driven. The
same thing is true of the meditation
technique. When the 'signs' of
jhana arise, the tool (meditation
technique) is finished. I have
found that to go on applying the
technique will only cause the
'signs' of ecstatic absorption to be
held off or suppressed.
%%%%%%%%%
<< suzaki@p...
It was as if all floating
particles of exited state in my body rapidly
gathered together to the center
of my brain and the top portion of my
spine. In my mental eyes, I
could see the white lightning. I felt
like my brain neurons were all
burned out. Perhaps, it was an event
of 0.1 to 0.2 second, leaving
me with the burning sensation as if I
was struck by the lightening.
In the following moment, I felt like I
was God (as if the moment of
creation was experienced by itself). In
the vast space of emptiness, I
also felt I was back at home. Then,
perhaps a few seconds later, I
felt like a truly/genuinely ordinary
human. >>
%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
This manifestation is
characteristic of the opening of the crown
chakra, the unification of the
mind (chitta), and the manifestation of
the non-material jhanas of
infinite consciousness and space, which the
theists call God.
Good work. Now, your job is to
provide the conditions that support
this occurring on a regular
basis. May I suggest that you now move
beyond the practice of
Vipassana meditation, as it is simply an
introductory method. If you
study the Satipatthana sutta, you will
find many more techniques that
will build the necessary foundation to
support your further growth
into a deeper contemplative life. Here
are some URLs that may help
you:
The Buddha's primary discourse
on the practice of meditation and the
value of jhana can be found in
these modest in length Suttas:
Maha-satipatthana Sutta (DN 22)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/digha/dn22.html
Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/majjhima/mn010b.html
Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/majjhima/mn118.html
The DN stands for Digha Nikaya
(The Long Discourses) and the MN stands
for Majjhima Nikaya (The Middle
Length Discourses).
I have also provided a jhana
related commentary on Satipatthana up to
level 4 here on the JSG
#151 "Satipatthana Sutta
MN 10.1-11" :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/message/151
Thank-you Kio for your
excellent contribution to our endeavor here.
Best regards to you, and keep
up the excellent work,
Jeff
==
Thank
you so much, Jeff. Nobody else critiqued as much as you did
which I very, very much
appreciate. I think your insight about
being inquisitive (in
meditative practice as you pointed out very
accurately) as opposed to
simply following the direction/technique
could be very, very important,
and that I agree very much on that
point.
Actually, I sense the same to
the practice of Abhidhamma, Zen, or
anything else, hence few
questions I raised elsewhere. Often we get
tangled up in not
distinguishing means and ends. One famous Zen
koan of polishing the tile
point this very well*. As I see it, this
is the same old catch-22. If
you know it, you know it.
(* Koan goes like this: A monk
was meditating. Another monk came
and started to polish a tile
next to him. A monk noticed this and
asked, what he was doing. The
monk with the tile said, I am trying
to make the Buddha.)
With metta
Kio
==
Taken from: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/message/1
Jeff, as much as I have found your experience and description of your journey at the beginning of this Jhana group’s postings, I read and made few comments in between your text. I thought of sharing this only with you by e-mail, but I then felt that you probably would not mind me sharing at the Jhana group for the benefit of all.
Please give me any feedback. I am hopeful that I am not imposing any view of my own here. Perhaps, my comment should be seen more like my monologue. Yet, if they trigger any idea, thoughts, etc. to anyone, please let me know so that the progress can be made and “my” ignorance eliminated. This reading is a bit long, but hope burning Yahoo! Server memories on this would not hurt so much. If there is any insight that can be gained from this piece, I am most happy for that. And lastly but not the least, Jeff, thank you for sharing this with us all!!!
- Kio
--------
The bird has its nest, and the
dog has its den,
but the soul of man has no
place to rest.
A description of my meditation
experience.
I have posted this description
of my contemplative experience for the members
of this dialog group to examine
in the hope that it will shed some light on
their own experiences.
As a product of my daily
vipassana meditation practice, I have been
experiencing a series of
subjective experiences that I have not been able to
find anyone to explain with
satisfaction, nor have I found any literature
that accurately describes these
experiences sufficiently for me to know
whether my practice is taking
me in the right direction or not. I do find
myself wanting some comment,
and perhaps there are others out there as well
who have similar experiences,
who either can help me, or together we may find
there is an authentic commonalty
in our subjective experiences to warrant
some generalizations.
I am sure there are many
others, who like me are asking, "Where am I, and
where do I go from here?"
My predicament is the state of my meditation
practice has produced regular
ecstatic experiences, that vaguely conform to
some of the descriptions in the
various Yoga and Buddhist treatises. My
difficulty is in finding
someone to help me to contextualize and direct my
experience. Perhaps this forum
will attract a peer level community of people
who can support each other in
their contemplative practice. That is why I
have formed this Yahoo group
listserv for peer level support for people, who
like me, have found little
support for the consequences of their
contemplative practice.
((I
am in the same boat. In my case, I started to investigate various
subjects on the net and else and posted them at my home page. I felt if I
am with one master, I may be missing many others. So, I took a cautious
approach. Further, given some rumors and using my intuitive sense, I
could not locate any one person whom I could trust fully. An exception is
Daisetz Suzuki, although he has passed away years ago, he left us with volumes
of his writing not just from the point of Zen but from Pure Land sect and
various commentaries on Western mystics. The other was Mr. Goenka,
through his writing, speech and actually attending and practicing Vipassana,
the experience made an unquestionable impact on me. In summary, Zen and
Vipassana along with various investigations have provided me good reference
points and experience base to take this journey.))
I began my study of dharma and
a daily meditation practice in the tradition
of Advaita Vedanta in 1973. A
year and a half later I was introduced to the
practice of Vipassana in a ten
day retreat lead by Robert Hover, a student of
the Burmese teacher Sayagi U Ba
Khin. I have attended about 15 ten day
meditation retreats, and about
40 three to five day retreats from a number of
excellent teachers in various traditions.
I have also spent 90 days in a
Kundalini yoga ashram some
years ago. I have had a daily meditation practice
for almost the whole of the
intervening years. The contemplative traditions
that I have practiced have been
primarily Advaita Vedanta and Theravadan
Buddhism. I have recently found
an excellent complement to these traditions
in Mahamudra and Dzogchen.
The symptoms that I am
experiencing in meditation are: within a few minutes
of engaging myself in the
observation of the tactile field, my mind begins to
settle to stillness.
This stillness is stable and unmoved by sensory or
mental state variations, which
I believe is equanimity. Awareness seems to
expand, and my concentration
becomes more focused, and a kind of energy
builds gently along my spine,
as my meditation deepens.
Soon after the calm is
established a series of sensations follow soon after.
Typically the sensations I have
– other than full body awareness of the
surface of my body and the
internal organ functions, muscles, circulatory
system and connective tissue – is primarily a general full-body
vibrator
sensation, which is often concentrated in my hands,
throat, forehead and top
of the head.
((I have similar experience. I sit about 60min. a day for the last three years except when I went through three 10-day retreats. I do not pay much attention on Kundalini energy perhaps due to some problems people experienced as I found on the net. My understanding is that vipassana is a gentle technique so there is no such problems expected.))
It
is my understanding that the generalized full-body vibratory
sensation is described in the
Theravadan tradition as annicha, which has been
interpreted for me as both the
principle of impermanence, and also as a
vibratory sensation similar to
what I have described above. The localized
concentrations of sensation
appear to correspond to the chakras of the yoga
tradition.
((I
think the reason they talk about anicca (I use this spelling.) is to see the
phenomena is always transient, including the vibrations – not that the
vibration is the proof of impermanence.))
These vibratory sensations are
the most dominant tactile sensations, and they
are often accompanied by a very
loud ringing sound, which often has
sufficient intensity as to be
nearly deafening. The sound often goes through
a series of frequency changes
from a cicada like chirping, to ringing, to a
roaring, like rain, or a water
fall, or perhaps the ocean at a distance.
((In my case, I do not pay much attention to it. Usually it is very
subtle sound, perhaps hissing like one. Also, every now and then, I see
white-bluish light, but again, I tend not to pay much attention to it. Jhana
is interesting and ecstatic quite often, but as I mention later, I have been also
interested in handling the various situations in life as well as how I
experience life in this world, i.e., a practice in daily life.))
There is typically a very
gentle bobbing of my head and a gentle swaying of
my torso to accompany the above
sensations. The bobbing and swaying seems
purely autonomic, and appears
to be an elastic response in the frame of the
body caused by blood pulsing in
my legs, torso and neck without the counter
balancing effect of muscles,
which have become relaxed, and therefore don't
hold the neck and torso in
check.
((My view on these is that they are the evidence of nature’s self-organizing process. So, I can relate to the expression in vipassana that we need to de-root sankhara – negative conditioning of the past by being in such a state. The body scanning, probing, poking, etc. with awareness (which seem to bring the life energy to do the job where needed), I think, is a way to do this as well as enhancing our awareness so that we gain the mirror mind as opposed to become the victim of the laws of multiplication produced by anger, depression, fear, etc. without noticing the symptom of what is going on in us.))
Often
shock waves like a deep shiver also
run up my spine at intermittent
intervals, at which time my fingers and lips
may twitch and my torso becomes
very erect, which causes the period of the
oscillations of my torso and
neck to become more rapid in the same way a
guitar string oscillates more
rapidly if drawn taut. In company with the
shock waves is usually a
sensation of intense ecstasy, which culminates in a
sense of luminosity. I believe
this is what has been described as kundalini
in the yoga literature.
((My
experience is a big one on 8th day of the first retreat as you read
the other day. (with minor ones in other occasions.) The energy
certainly produces vibration, and various sensations. How to categorize them or
whether or not to categorize them may be an interesting question. Still,
whatever the symptom we go through, we need to be equanimous and not to try
intentionally to produce these symptoms. Each person may have his or her
own characteristics, perhaps related to the past karma/experiences and physical
construct of our mind-body.))
Since I practice Vipassana in
the tradition of Sayagi U Ba Khin, I was
introduced to contemplative
practice in various forms of body scanning in the
tactile field. Over the years I
have modified my meditation practice as a
consequence of experience,
deepening concentration and broadening awareness.
I've found that scanning is no
longer necessary for me. Scanning, like any
other concentration technique,
seems to serve the primary purpose of
occupying the mind until it
comes to rest. Since I can settle my mind fairly
quickly, I have found I can
simply observe the tactile field as a totality.
Once I'm observing the whole of
the tactile field, then this whole-body
vibratory sensation soon emerges.
((This,
I feel the same. However, it may be still OK/good to do the detailed
scanning as mentioned above. I am amazed that there are millions of ways
to scan the body after doing this for three years – shallow, deep, detailed,
broad, up, down, across, internal organs, brain, bones, slow, fast, etc., etc.
and with various sensations and inter-related mind plays at times. The
point is, as truth is realized by various ways of observation – the Buddha
point to this effect as I recall, we may need to combine various ways to
realize truth while paying attention of not mixing techniques of contradicting
nature.))
Once I'm established in
observing the tactile field, I begin to observe the
other sense fields
simultaneously. I usually add the sense field of sound
next which eventually becomes,
as I have said a ringing. The ringing is
really much more a combination
of sounds such as ringing, whirring, buzzing, chirping, and a rushing sound
much like the wind or a waterfall all at the
same time. I believe the
ringing in the ears is to the auditory gate, as the
vibrations (annicha) are to the
tactile gate.
((Reflecting my own experience, I see my body physically transformed since my first vipassana retreat. I now notice many things – in the subconscious field, that was not obvious before. This connects to the point of Zen expression: being conscious of unconscious. What you indicate here may be a way of looking at the expanding sensory skills, which is an interesting sign to enable us to be aware of many things we did not notice before – especially about who we are. So, understanding the mind-matter relationship is the critical subject – not just expanding the sensory ability. We need to incorporate them, and probe into this point in some way or the other.))
I
have found the other gates
have their own manifestations
of unique expression during these deep
absorption states as well.
Therefore annicha appears to manifest in its own
unique way in each sense gate.
((I am not sure about the description Re: anicca as mentioned above.))
In
the progression of my daily sit I
eventually observe all of the
sense gates at once. Simultaneously observing
the manifestations of annicha
in all of the sense gates becomes something
like witnessing a symphony of
pleasant sensations in all 6 sense fields.
((I
am not able to do this, yet. Usually one sensation is higher magnitude
than others, therefore, catches my attention. Yet, I see the point of
rising of different sensation as I meditate.))
I recently examined a
translation of the Samadhanga Sutta, a chapter of the
Pali cannon. I found it too
poetic to receive adequate direction from, but
it describes how the aspirant
becomes progressively more soaked, or saturated
in ecstasy in each of the
jhanas, or absorption states.
((Zen does not view absorption as something important. The insight/wisdom part is the concern as much as vipassana points the same.))
In interpreting this sutta, it seems that ecstasy is the manifestation of annicha in its various unique forms in the sense fields.
((Again, I feel that your interpretation of anicca seems different from mine. It is about the change but you may be saying although expression sounds different.))
My
conclusion is, I'm experiencing some,
if not all, of the Jhanas. And,
since equanimity is the underlying and
dominant condition of my
'mind,' and equanimity is the telltale factor
determining the fifth, and
highest, jhana, it appears that I have arrived at
and maintain the fifth jhana.
((In
Japanese, the key four signs are: all is suffering, everything is impermanent,
there is no self in dhamma, and the last one being: Nehan Jakujyou or peace of
nibbana, pointing the calm infinite space. I think this may correspond to
5th or higher level jhana.))
From examining various chapters
of the Pali canon, it seems that the
trajectory toward enlightenment
is to go through these jhanas (or ecstatic
absorption states) on one's way
to the subjective experiences the Buddha
described as unification of
consciousness, merger with infinite time, space,
consciousness, emptiness, etc.
((We need to be careful about not confusing means and ends.))
As
the descriptions of spiritual ecstasy and
enlightenment seem to indicate,
the absorption states are altered states of
consciousness through which we
must pass to arrive at nirvana, which is
annihilation of the self in the
infinite. With little else to go on, my
solution, at the present, is
just to go with the surges of energy and other
manifestations, and to continue
to experience the various unification and
annihilation experiences, which
occur for me at random intervals.
((I sense that the infinite/empty state is there. As much as you honed the senses to hear, sense, see, feel, etc. the mind-eye can open up –perhaps after the release of energy, and after or beyond the ecstatic experiences. Although I am not qualified to talk about these (qualified…it is a subjective experience for the most part.), I tend to feel that even those who do not go through jhana experience seem to arrive at such a state – even an old farmer or carpenter in the country, perhaps. They tend to exhibit a resolved state of peace and understanding of what life is, what to argue and not, etc. I feel that there is a pragmatic/subjective aspect of peace and harmony – out of the scheme of 78 cittas and 8 steps of jhana, etc. Again, if we are caught up in techniques, categorization and description, I feel we may miss the boat. – Note: this is reminder to myself as I write.))
To go deeper into equanimity I
have found relinquishing grasping is
essential.
((As you may agree, I feel that this is the name of the game from step A to step Z.))
I
have found that grasping clearly hinders the progression of the
absorption states, so
relinquishing grasping is central to my practice at
this time.
((I noticed that I can apply this same process in facing the vicissitudes of life. You might want to share such experiences. In Zen, it is called Dochu-no-kufuu, use of skill in a dynamic situation as opposed to the controlled situation.
((To this point, please see this explanation I just found from the book Jhanas along with my notes:
=====
Momentary concentration arises in the samathayánika simultaneously with his post-jhánic attainment of insight, but for the vipassanáyánika it develops naturally and spontaneously in the course of his insight practice without his having to fix the mind upon a single exclusive object.
((I see this must be what I am doing. Sometimes successful, in other times it takes time to come up with release insight. But, I know it works.))
Without gaining jhána he goes directly into contemplation on the five aggregates and by observing them constantly from moment to moment acquires momentary concentration as an accompaniment of his investigations.
((Yes, this is the dynamic process!))
=====
((So, what is interesting is that as described in the mahaparainibanna sutra and in jhana play as htoo… points and jhana jungle gym indicates, it may be that these plays of different levels of jhana may point a way of cultivating the dynamic jhana – vipassanáyánika. To me, this indicates an important distinction that is to be paid attention to those engaged in Jhana exploration.))
In
fact I have found that a grasping "event" immediately precedes
a mind event, or ripple of
disturbance on the otherwise quiet flow of my
awareness. Consequently, my
mindfulness practice for many years now has been
primarily focused on observing
the rising and falling of grasping and
aversion in response to the
senses, consequently I have endeavored to
relinquish my hold or
obstruction on the senses.
((Yes,
so this is how we practice and make sure that our meditative practice – in
sitting is applied as mindfulness throughout the day.))
During the progression of my
meditation there is often a bit of a shift in my
focus and my breathing at
discrete moments, which I flow with spontaneously
in the progression of my
deepening concentration and corresponding expanding awareness.
((I think you pointed this on my experience. I feel the same.))
These
shifts in focus and breathing seem to precede the surges up
my spine, which can be of
sufficient force as to give me the sensation as
though I'm going to be lifted
off the zaffu.
((Once, I felt like this. But not recently. Somehow, I feel that this kind of symptom relates to the amount of sankhara one needs to release.))
It
does seem at times, that if
the energy rising up my spine
got anymore intense, my brain would pop out of
the top of my head. It can be a
bit disconcerting at times, but that's when
I'm deciding to practice
non-grasping to even the body.
((My
sense about these is that it is a clean up process, eliminating the blockage as
you well know.))
As this energy surges up my
spine I undergo a series of shifts in focus,
which eventually concludes in a
wall of light which impinges on my psyche to
the point of overwhelming me.
At that moment it seems even identity must be
relinquished as well. It seems
that the trajectory is to get to a place
where one doesn't cling to
anything, not even to identity. It is this
experience that seems to be
what the historic Buddha called unification of
consciousness.
((Release
the identity is a good word, corresponding to release of self, attachment,
clinging, aversion….always.))
I have been meditating 3 to 4
hours a day for several years now. Every time
I sit I enjoy some part or all
of the above described sensations. I have
found that when I begin and end
each day with these pleasant sensations my
days and nights are filled with
the sensations of annicha, as well as
pleasant thoughts and feelings.
I fill each moment with mindful observation
of sensation, and I attentively
avoid grasping and aversion. Consequently
equanimity pervades or
permeates my waking and sleep state.
((In my case, I still wonder how much meditation is appropriate. It may depend on the needs (Yet, nobody can say what that is except seeing the symptom we encounter in life). In a sense, as mentioned before, I feel the dynamic meditation is equally important in living modern life although I also see the merit of living in the controlled setting and explore into the infinite space. The idea of middle way may indicate that it is our choice - for the balanced life. In my case, I am moving into the latter case of quiet living.))
In
fact from the
moment I first become aware of
this body until the moment that sleep
overcomes this body I am filled
with more happiness and contentment than I
have ever felt before. And I am
always filled with the sweetest sensation of
love, as though I have a new
romance.
((In
my case, I am accompanied with tingling sensation most of the time. This may
correspond to your sense of love. Without the first vipassana retreat, I
can say that I would not have came thus far. So, back to jhana, in my
case, the breakthrough in meditation was very critical to discover the new
world.))
This practice and these
sensations have even pervaded my sleep state, because
I no longer seem to go
unconscious when I rest at night, As I rest the body
at night I observe mindfuly the
progression of my repose, which is a
succession of deepening
relaxation, and deepening breath, in which dreams
arise and move one from the
next, and from which my body and mind reemerges
at about 4 to 5 AM each
morning, at which time I sit to meditate for an hour
or so before my son awakes and
I begin my day.
((Yes,
we become aware of unconscious!!! It is as if we are not alone; there is
something, the nameless one, that is more powerful. I think this brings
the sense of the infinite while we witness the marvelous act playing in front
of our eyes. Dancing of the universe in the movement of trees, the sound
of wind chime, and swinging innocent flowers. ))
The pervasion of my awareness
into my sleep domain has also produced a kind
of shattering of my sense of
reality, as well as my dependence on a linear
time/space domain. My dreams
are often so lucid as to be indistinguishable
from what we call "waking
reality." Consequently, even though I "awake"
every morning to this
"reality, I have also "awakened" to other seamlessly
real and equally engaging
realities which are not in this space/time domain.
((I am not there. But there is a story of Chuang Tzu and the butterfly where he points he became unsure if the dream was a reality or what. See my file on Chuang Tzu if interested.))
The
consequence is that I cannot with conviction state that this reality is
any more real, than the other
realities that I encounter. I believe this is
of course the realization of
much of the material within Advaita Vedanta and
Mahamudra, in which the very
nature of reality is called into question.
((I
have never studied those two you mentioned, yet.))
It is a bit disconcerting not
knowing to which reality I can "rely" on, or to
which I will find myself in the
next moment. This lack of reliance on a
time/space domain has produced
a lack of dependence on external references,
which has produced a great
ambivalence toward the objects of the senses. As
a consequence I seem to have no
ambition for anything in life.
((I feel the same! If I die tomorrow, do I care? What is important? Nothing? Dhamma? Why do we need to think? LOL. But, I know that my mind can swing a bit later.))
I
have no
interest in a career. I do not
care for an ideal relationship, or acquiring
progeny. I have no interest in
acquiring anything, such as land and a home.
I have no thought toward
acquiring wealth, or a retirement. I do not even
care if I get sick, or how long
I live. Death could come in the next moment,
and it would mean nothing to
me. And, interestingly enough, I have no fear
of the dark.
((I
seem to have some attachment to wealth in the sense that I do not want to be
bothered by it. I eat little, a basic food. I do not want to go to
restaurant, etc. However, the different interest is in the sound of the
wind chime, bird – oh heavenly they are, and crickets, wind, stars, etc.,
etc.))
Another interesting property of
my life, is I can't seem to gain my balance.
I often feel ever so slightly
off balance. I believe this vertigo is related
to the heightened awareness I
have developed for my senses. One of the most
over looked senses is our sense
of balance, and yet it is critical to our
species method of bipedal
locomotion. I believe the sense of euphoria one
experiences during the
ecstasies is a heightened awareness of the sense of
balance. It is this, perhaps
overly acute, awareness of the sense of balance
that keeps me feeling slightly
off balance almost as though I am drunk.
((This, I am not sure. Maybe, because of Zen influence, the sharp awareness is the name of game. I wonder if I feel the same sense of heaven in this world with birds, etc. around, if I have what you call, vertigo. I wonder if there is a case made toward going to the extreme. (I am just posing a question, you know.)
((Perhaps,
I will elaborate a bit more. It is the sense of magical work of the God
played out in this world. It is the sense that points that this world is
by itself nirvana. There are indications in the sound of bird and
everywhere around…It appears that my enhanced sense points to these things,
bringing the sense of appreciation of life itself - directly.))
I am 50 years old and a single
parent of two children. My spiritual practice
has been something that I have
arranged in the quiet times after the children
and spouse have gone off to
sleep. The spouse left long ago. My oldest has
already graduated from college,
and my youngest is a year from leaving home
for college. Once he has left
home I plan to dedicate the whole of my
energies to my spiritual
practice, and the furthering of the dharma.
((I
am 55 years old. I stay home with the wind chime and birds most of the
time. There is no interest in going out to the city. These days, I
tend to see business more as rat race as Mr. Goenka pointed out.))
I am now wanting to spend all
of my time in meditation, so I seek retreat opportunities where ever I can find
them. I spend all of my vacation time at
meditation retreats. My only interest
in life is maintaining these
subjective experiences,
becoming enlightened, and directing others in their
practice.
((In
my case, I still “try” to check and balance. Also, Bodhisattva ideal is
still a topic to be considered.))
May you begin each day and end
each day with bliss, and may your days and nights be filled with joy.
((Ditto.
I wonder if you have the sense of what is inside is outside. It is the
sense of transparency I feel now and then. It is as if knowing ourselves
suddenly flips around to the external world to know the world and the universe,
and finding that we are all one. It is also about sensing the vibration
in the trees, flowers, insects, and in other people that they all show the same
quality, the life force, and all that - all expressing this unknown force.))
My only wish is to benefit all
beings with every thought, word, action and
resource.
((Yes,
the wholesome act! Following the way.))
Jeff Brooks
April, 2003
((Thanks for your openness to share your experiences and views. Certainly, you have traveled many roads. I am hopeful that our exchange of ideas benefits us all. With metta, Kio))
((I took out what seemed to be redundant to post here. For his complete comments, please see at #766 of Jhana group at Yahoo! Message board.))
Thank-you
Kio for your kind comments. I am glad you have posted them on-list
for the benefit of others. I
find I have nothing to hide anyway.
Please see my comments below:
<< - Kio
((I have similar experience. I
sit about 60min. a day for the last
three years except when I went
through three 10-day retreats. I do
not pay much attention on
Kundalini energy perhaps due to some
problems people experienced as
I found on the net. My understanding
is that vipassana is a gentle
technique so there is no such problems
expected.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
I am glad, Kio, that you have
some of the above symptoms or 'signs' of jhana,
because that means that at
least two of us here have them. And, from the
record, it seems that others
have them here as well. But, what does it say for
the 20 or so meditation
teachers I described these symptoms to, who said they
did not know what I was talking
about? It means of course that most of the
well known and highly respected
meditation teachers out their haven't a clue,
and
therefore have no business
teaching meditation.
The belief that "Vipassana
is a gentle technique so there is no such
problems" is a myth. All
contemplative practices can and do cause the symptoms
and
conditions (sign) of jhana
(ecstasy) to emerge, however some techniques are
more
skilled than others.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<< - Kio
<< - Kio
((In my case, I do not pay much
attention to it. Usually it is very
subtle sound, perhaps hissing
like one. Also, every now and then, I
see white-bluish light, but
again, I tend not to pay much attention
to it. Jhana is interesting and
ecstatic quite often, but as I
mention later, I have been also
interested in handling the various
situations in life as well as how
I experience life in this world,
i.e., a practice in daily
life.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
You may want to reexamine the
Satipatthana Sutta, it clearly states that the
'sign' (manifestations, or
symptoms) of jhana are meant to be your object of
meditation when they arise.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<< From Post #1:
There is typically a very
gentle bobbing of my head and a gentle
swaying of my torso to
accompany the above sensations. The
bobbing and swaying seems
purely autonomic, and appears to be
an elastic response in the
frame of the body caused by blood
pulsing in my legs, torso and
neck without the counter balancing
effect of muscles, which have
become relaxed, and therefore
don't hold the neck and torso
in check. >>
<< - Kio
((My view on these is that they
are the evidence of nature's self-
organizing process. So, I can
relate to the expression in vipassana
that we need to de-root
sankhara – negative conditioning of the
past
by being in such a state. The
body scanning, probing, poking, etc.
with awareness (which seem to
bring the life energy to do the job
where needed), I think, is a
way to do this as well as enhancing our
awareness so that we gain the
mirror mind as opposed to become the
victim of the laws of
multiplication produced by anger, depression,
fear, etc. without noticing the
symptom of what is going on in us.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
While I understand very well
the concept of the "mirror mind" as it emerges
from the emptiness of calm
abiding (shamata), I however fail to see how your
comment connects to the above
experience other than the anatomical processes
can
manifest the symptoms of calm
abiding, in this case in the form of a gentle
bobbing and swaying.
One of the things I am hopeful
that we here will be able to agree upon are
the conditions or
manifestations of pathology, verses "success" in the
practice.
For instance, I believe most of
the manifestations of kriyas are probably
manifestations of
"pathology" in the form of tension being released in the form
of jerks and twitches. Whereas
the jolt of "energy" rising up the spine,
which is characteristic of the
classic kundalini experience, could be called
"success" in that the
manifestation does not seem to be caused by resistance,
but
be "release."
In the above case, the bobbing
and rocking did not manifest as a consequence
of tension, but manifested as a
consequence of relaxation, and the calming of
the mind in shamata. Therefore,
one could assume it is an example of
"success" in the
practice, even though I was asked to leave the Goenka retreat
because
of it.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<< From Post #1:
Since I practice Vipassana in
the tradition of Sayagi U Ba Khin, I
was introduced to contemplative
practice in various forms of
body scanning in the tactile
field. Over the years I have modified
my meditation practice as a
consequence of experience,
deepening concentration and broadening
awareness. I've found
that scanning is no longer
necessary for me. Scanning, like any
other concentration technique,
seems to serve the primary
purpose of occupying the mind
until it comes to rest. Since I
can settle my mind fairly
quickly, I have found I can simply
observe the tactile field as a
totality. Once I'm observing the
whole of the tactile field,
then this whole-body vibratory
sensation soon emerges.>>
<< - Kio
((This, I feel the same.
However, it may be still OK/good to do the
detailed scanning as mentioned
above. I am amazed that there are
millions of ways to scan the
body after doing this for three years
–
shallow, deep, detailed, broad,
up, down, across, internal organs,
brain, bones, slow, fast, etc.,
etc. and with various sensations and
inter-related mind plays at
times. The point is, as truth is
realized by various ways of
observation – the Buddha point to
this
effect as I recall, we may need
to combine various ways to realize
truth while paying attention of
not mixing techniques of
contradicting nature.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
Yes, I agree with you that
there are many scanning methods, and it is good to
see that you are beginning to
observe the inside of the body as well, per the
instructions in the
Satipatthana Sutta. But, the point that I believe you
fail to get here is, that once
the mind has arrived in calm abiding (shamata),
there is no longer a need to
occupy it.
One need only observe the
phenomena as it arises at this point, including the
'sign' (manifestations of
symptoms) of jhana, therefore the formal method,
i.e., scanning, is no longer
needed. And, I have found for jhana to occur the
mind needs to have arrived in
calm abiding, which means it is not only free of
thought, but it is also free of
the volitional aspects of the meditation
technique (scanning) as well.
If you recall, the Buddha
recommends relinquishing perception and object
recognition. I have found it is
the processes of cognition that are obstacles
to
shamata, therefore observing
the minutia of any sense field becomes irrelevant
when shamata arises. It is then
when observing the field, in what I call a 3
dimensional totality, that I
have found supports the arising of the 'sign'
(symptoms and conditions) of
jhana (ecstasy) to arise.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<< From Post #1:
Once I'm established in
observing the tactile field, I begin to
observe the other sense fields
simultaneously. I usually add
the sense field of sound next
which eventually becomes, as
I have said a ringing.
The ringing is really much more
a combination of sounds
such as ringing, whirring,
buzzing, chirping, and a rushing
sound much like the wind or a
waterfall all at the same
time. I believe the ringing in
the ears is to the auditory
gate, as the vibrations
(annicha) are to the tactile gate. >>
<< - Kio
((Reflecting my own experience,
I see my body physically transformed
since my first vipassana
retreat. I now notice many things – in the
subconscious field, that was
not obvious before. This connects to
the point of Zen expression:
being conscious of unconscious. What
you indicate here may be a way
of looking at the expanding sensory
skills, which is an interesting
sign to enable us to be aware of
many things we did not notice
before – especially about who we
are. So, understanding the
mind-matter relationship is the critical
subject – not just expanding
the sensory ability. We need to
incorporate them, and probe
into this point in some way or the
other.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
Yes, I would agree that
"being conscious of unconscious" or what I call
expanding the domain of
awareness seems to be a central function of the
practice of
meditation. And, yes I also
agree that many of the manifestations (signs) of
jhana seem to be manifestations
of hypersensitivity. But, I don't think we
need to "understand"
anything. I believe we simply need to empty ourselves,
and then "allow"
ourselves to be filled by the 'signs' of jhana (ecstasy).
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
<< From Post #1:
I recently examined a
translation of the Samadhanga Sutta, a chapter
of the Pali cannon. I found it
too poetic to receive adequate direction
from, but it describes how the
aspirant becomes progressively more
soaked, or saturated in ecstasy
in each of the jhanas, or absorption
states.
((Zen does not view absorption
as something important. The
insight/wisdom part is the
concern as much as vipassana points the
same.))
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Jeff:
It is actually this very point
that proves that the Buddhist sangha of the
three Vehicles has fallen into
decay. Because, if you read the Satipatthana
Sutta, it clearly states that
the jhanas and their 'signs' (manifestations and
symptoms) are most definitely
part of the "practice," of mindfulness, or on the
seekers path to nibbana. Or, as
the Buddha put it "the four foundations of
mindfulness." And, if you
read Dogen, you will find he wrote on the 4
foundations of mindfulness and
included a description of the jhanas and the
formless
states. Therefore any
meditation teacher in the three vehicles who says that
the jhanas and their signs are
to be ignored has to be without a doubt so
ignorant of the Buddha's own
teaching on the practice of mindfulness as to be
not
teaching in the tradition of
the Buddha. They are most definitely teaching
some
other tradition.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Thank-you for your interest in
my subjective experience and your contribution
to the dialog here.
Best to you and all,
Jeff