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The following
is an account of a conversation which took place via email, between
the three members of this team, namely, Julieta, Nadia and Martine.
This took place on Friday 25th and Monday 28th of April.
Friday 25
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto, Nadia Khan
Subject: what now?
Hi,
I wanted to tell you my thought about the project from last night, but
I have just read Steven Campbell's email, and I don't know what to say...
Last night I thought that we should open up about our intentions completely.
How could we expect an open discussion, if we still hide some information
ourselves? This means that Nadia and I should also step forward and
take the responsibility. But now it seems that they lost confidence
in the project completely. I don't expect that they would want to cooperate
with us again, so maybe we must just withdraw ourselves from the project?
I'm v. interested in
what Karel and Michael will say at 11, please send emails or call me
Good luck, Martine
From: Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto, Nadia Khan
Subject:
how are
you feeling now?
From: Julieta Leveratto
To: Martine Hermsen, Nadia Khan
Subject: RE:
hi martine,
we are about to start the class. thanks for your mail.
i think is a good idea if you want to join me. i am ok, nadia is freaking
out. call me later
j
From: Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto, Nadia Khan
Subject: RE: RE:
Good to
hear from you. Take care! I don't think we should panic too much. The
worst thing will be that the whole thing gets cancelled, but I am sure
we will get over that. Oh, that sounds awful. I am very sorry to have
hurted people, and I feel very guilty about that, but I have learned
a lot in the past days.
I can't really decide about my opinion for the next strategy, but I
will hear the conclusion of the meeting soon.
I'll call you at 1;30 or so,
Love, M
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto, Nadia Khan
Subject:
i can't
concentrate, tell me what is happening!
From:
Julieta Leveratto
To: Martine Hermsen, Nadia Khan
Subject: RE:
nothing,
we didnt start yet. michael is here. i want to send them the reply.
do you want
me to send you the answer and if you agree join in the sign?
From: Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto
Subject: RE: RE:
Yeah, that
would be good!
M
From: Julieta Leveratto
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject: is it ok?
to everybody:
1- dont worry, the page is down. Is the problem over or still there?
(besides this, i didnt submit the site to any search engine).
2- "this is not an apropriate offer for discussion as you call
it!" (John Smith) We are researching about immigration in UK as
an important subject
within this culture (remeber Leeds, Bradford?). We are doing this in
cooperation with austrian students. Several demostrations are being
held in France
(and immigration is linked with this). Is this project about flowers
or about what is really happening in a society (that is innevitably
linked with what
is happening in other ones, lets call it globalization)? Now Mcluhan
comes to our mind. He says that artists are the only people in a society,
able to see and express what is really happening. We are not artist,
but we ask you: Isnt this page some kind of reflection of the society
we are living in? Arent we living with non-tolerant people? where are
the people that brought the FPO to the second party? If right wing are
so important, why is this some kind of insult? why is being right wing
an insult if they are wining elections? do we say one thing in public
and vote for another thing in the darkness?
why don't right wing people make a demostration when left wing partys
go to the power? are left wing being totlitarian with right wing?
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto
Subject: Re: is it ok?
This seems
very good to me. Maybe we should include something about that our intentions
were certainly not to hurt people, but to provoke a discussion.
I am shocked by their strong reactions, and think we should apologize.
They are angry and we have to take a step back, to give them some space.
Besides this, I think Nadia should check the English (mainly regarding
the last sentence, I would say 'is the left wing being totalitarian
with the right
wing?'. But I think it is really good, you ask the right questions,
make connections to the current affairs (although I don't remember Leeds
and Bradford, but I am an political nitwit anyway). And the bit about
McLuhan is very good as well, it points out that artists actually have
a responsibility towards society.
So... Are you having the meeting yet? What is Nadia doing in the meantime?
I'll call you soon!
Love, Martine
From:
Julieta Leveratto
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject: RE: RE: is it ok?
and maybe
I would add at the begining:
we did it because we knew that nobody else but us (the uk-austrian team)
could see it.
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Julieta Leveratto
Subject: Re: RE: RE: is it ok?
Yeah, I
agree with that.
From:
Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject: im confused
Hi Martine,
I am feeling very confused. Im not sure where this is going anymore...
Michael is keen for us to continue. He has proposed that Julieta
becomes the focus of the project in any discussions between us and the
Austrian students.
He also emphasised the fact that the students should deal with the whole
thing rather than teachers being involved.He believes that the Austrians
have reacted badly, that they are trying to protect the students from
somehting they have ignored for a long time. He explained how this has
become taboo and is becoming embedded into Austrian culture where people
can no longer talk about these issues.
Julieta has sent an email with another statement.She has added our names,
because i feel we should support her.
Tell me what you think.
Nadia
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Nadia Khan
Subject: RE: im confused
>Hi Martine,
I am feeling very confused. Im not sure where this is going anymore...Michael
is keen for us to continue. He has proposed that Julieta becomes the
focus of the project in any discussions between us and the Austrian
students.
****???? I don't understand this!
He also emphasised the fact that the students should deal with the whole
thing
rather than teachers being involved. He believes that the Austrians
have reacted badly, that they are trying to protect the students from
somehting they have ignored for a long time. He explained how this has
become taboo and is becoming embedded into Austrian culture where people
can no longer talk about these issues.
**** I thought he would have freaked out by now and strongly regretting
the whole thing.
I do agree with him, I guess, I don't really know anymore. I regret
we put their names on the site though, we could have made links in another
way, but at least nobody else has seen it. I think Laura really has
a good point in her emails. Well, we have no choice but to continue
and
hopefully it will lead to something constructive Julieta has sent an
email with another statement.She has added our names, because i feel
we should support her.
****Yeah, definately
Tell me
what you think.
Nadia
**** I tried to call you, but I hadn't stored Julieta's phone number
and your phone is off. Now I am back in the office, and I think it is
better not to talk I don't want to make stupid remarks in front of everybody.
I can just imagine myself saying thinks like: 'I quite like our right
wing website!' This email has answered most of my questions though.
I found an article that exactly deals with the issues 'silence or discussion'.
Check it out: http://www.independent.co.uk/story
OK, that's it for now, Love, M
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Nadia Khan
Subject:
Ah, a constructive
reply!
> On
Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:42:24 +0200 "Paul Thomson" wrote:
hello embrace list,
anonymous mailings with brainless content,
how stupid - boba fett. (sic!)
but now to the topic, of course this is not a project about english
tea and flowers ( - there are lot of different approaches at the page)..
maybe it is interesting for you: one artist, christoph schlingensief,
has made a project a few months ago in vienna, according to the topics:
- immigration, xenophobia in austria. more information about this art-event
and the movie about it > >here: > http://www.bonusfilm.at/
projekte/schlingensief/schlingensief2.htm
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Nadia Khan, Julieta Leveratto
Subject: did I do a stupid thing?
I just panicked, I did not reply that last email to Paul, did I?
Could you check the adresses and let me know?
M
From: Julieta Leveratto
To: Martine Hermsen, Nadia Khan
Subject: RE: did I do a stupid thing?
no, you didnt, dont worry
your idea is a very good one, send us what you would like to put and
we gonna do the same.
j
From: Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject:
I agree..
this is the first constructive email we have received. I think you should
state your opinion if that is how your feeling... and Laura has said
much more than we have. Unfortunatly she seems to be sending our mails
to a lawyer...we've contacted michael and karel but have stopped communicating
with her for the time being. Im not sure about meeting on the weekend...
Im busy on sunday and tomorrow would rather stick around and do nothing...
although i would be interested in seeing an exhibition. i think i just
want t o have a break from the whole thing. let me know what you feel
like doing
nadia
#CC0000
From: Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject:
Don't worry
about the lawyer too much. .. I think Paul is beginning to see things
our way and we are making progress with somone else from aec...although
he is not on the list. We are now discussing cultural identity and stuff
like that... julieta has told this person that she is from
argentina. Laura hasn't responded to this change in attitude but I think
she needs time...in the meantime I think we should continue communicating
with the people that understand us. If the weathers nice on the weekend
we should definately lie on the grass...
nadia
From: Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject: my statement
Hi martine...sorry
to bother you again. I hope your still at work? Just wondered if you
could read my statement and tell me what you think
before I send to everyone: If we approached the students in Linz with
a question about immigration directly, the response would have been
in the direction of statistics etc. Our objective was to get to the
root of peoples attitudes towards immigration. The site did produce
the response we were after but only
because we posed our questions within this context. We are now beginning
to receive feedback in the direction of immigration. I feel that these
comments are honest opinions and exactly the response we were after.
Our proposal involved bringing the two locations closer together by
using graffiti as a method of communication. (Check it out in the pool)…The
idea was to initiate discussion through a statement, question or image
within the space of this wall. The intention, to receive a response
in relation to that statement, however, discussion could go in any direction
and the results become highly unpredictable.
I feel that I should say something about myself at this stage. I have
supported Julietas actions and was involved from the beginning. I am
a British Asian and my parents are Pakistani (immigrants) I live with
two cultures simultaneously aswell as being a British Muslim. I must
deal with the two as separate identities, despite this, the gap between
culture and my faith are blurred, just as the gap between western and
eastern influences are also blurred.
Basically my life is composed of two worlds that continuously overlap
whilst forming some kind of balance. I feel that when I am immersed
in one culture the other becomes less important. This is constantly
changing and as you can imagine becomes very confusing. On the other
hand I feel privileged to have such a strong perspective of both worlds.
My attitude towards my faith has changed over the past year, as I discovered
how important it is to make people aware that I am a Muslim. This is
something I did not expect to have to deal with in everyday life. In
doing so I have realised that it is important to me and comes before
everything else, in my life.
The cultures that exist in my life are my Pakistani heritage and British
influences. I was born in Wales so technically I’m Welsh but have
no ties
with Wales since I have spent most of my life in London. I do however
identify with Pakistan as a country equally to the UK. I began researching
with Julieta into immigration in the UK, questioning why people choose
to come here. I am interested in this because I often wonder why my
parents chose to stay in this country despite the fact that they miss
Pakistan all the time. As we began to meet people from different nationalities
we discovered that each person had a story to tell. We became interested
in the diversity of people that lived in London. Our project began to
focus on this. The team (julieta, martine, nadia) are now collaborating
on a project about immigration. The response we are now receiving from
Paul Thomson and James Jackson is much more constructive and the discussion
appears to be going in the direction we had hoped. I appreciate Lauras
response and hope she will see things
from our perspective.
Nadia Khan
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Nadia Khan
Subject:my statement
Just a quick
reply (I feel guilty being on the internet all the time)
I think your statement is very good and honest. I can't think of any
improvements, so you should send it like this!
Martine
Monday 28
From:
Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject:
HIi Martine
how are you today?
I just read your statement...I think it sums up the whole experience.
Again, Im not sure where things will go today...keep you informed.
Nadia
From:
Nadia Khan
To: Martine Hermsen
Subject: continue with project on our own
hi martine,
julieta and I are thinking about continuing with this project outside
of ars electronica, dealing with the same issues. we could do the analysis,
create the graffiti installation but work on it in London. what do you
think?...it is still alot of work and could become our Pg Dip project.
Personally I feel determined to make an impact, this is something we
should make people aware of.
nadia
From:
Martine Hermsen
To: Nadia Khan
Subject:Re: continue with project on our own
My first
reaction is that it will be very good. I really enjoy working with the
three of us, and it will be a great experience doing something relevant
for the
society.
We'll talk about it!
M
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