curiousoul
(8/22/03 1:28 P.M. 1 out of 14 )
What is Buddha's take on creation, or does he have one at all?
I've been studying Buddhism a little here and there, but I
haven't really found any information on that subject. I
personally feel that it doesn't really matter much because we as
humans (mortals) will never know the truth, and maybe we're not
meant to know. I would like to know some of your opinions as
well.
Oomwaha
8/23/03 10:05 P.M. 2 out of 14
As far as I am concerned the Big Bang theory is probably the most
plausible I have heard, but who really knows for sure, certainly
not me and I would never make any such claims...
yiuchan
8/25/03 7:19 P.M. 3 out of 14
Actually, the Buddha gave a very detailed description of how our
present Universe as we know it was created and how it will end in
the "Agama Sutra", Chapter 21. The description is very
detailed and specific: a previous Universe was destroyed by three
great fires and as these fires were cooled off, our present
Universe was born. In the future, our present Universe will be
destroyed again by fires and another New Universe will be born.
That means in Buddha's point of view, the universe is cyclical, undergoing a great bang and a great crunch alternately - a theoretical model adopted by many moodern scientists.
The reasoning is this: scientists had observed from the "red shift" that the Universe is expanding, that is, all the stars and galaxies are flying apart from each other. But, there is a force that is also holding the Universe together, ie, gravitational force as described by Sir Isaac Newton. If the gravitational force is greater, than the expansion will slow down and eventually come to a halt. Then the Universe will shrink back to its original point (the Great Crunch) and everything starts over again. This is the same viewpoint as the Buddha's. But if the gravitational force is smaller, than we will have a "one shot" Universe which will expand into a permanent cold dark space, with all the energy levels exhausted (scientist and engineers call it the second law of thermodynamics). So far, the Hubble Telescope had gathered evidences that support a forever expanding Universe.
But, the Universe also has a number of so called "Black Holes" which are dying stars compressed into high densities of matter. These black holes act like huge vacuum cleaners, sucking in stars, galaxies, cosmic dusts, energy, space and time into small pinpoints. These black holes can be observed by the Hubble Telescope. What happens to those stars and galaxies that had been sucked into these black holes? Will one of these black holes generates another "Big Bang" after sucking in a huge amount of matter and energy? No one knows.
One respected scientist, Dr. Steve Hawkins, is of the opinion that "Baby Universes" are being born on the other time-space frame out of these "Black Holes", ie, if you can send a space ship right into one of these black holes, you will enter another Universe which is created out of the gigantic vacuum cleaner.
Interesting when comparing modern scientific discoveries with
what the Buddha said 2,500 years ago.
curiousoul
8/25/03 7:33 P.M. 4 out of 14
Okay, well, what about human creation?
yiuchan
8/26/03 1:14 A.M. 5 out of 14
The Buddha did also describe in the Agama Sutra where we as human
beings came from. I am giving a more detailed creation account as
described in this Sutra. Most Westerners probably are not aware
of it.
Continued from my above post, the previous Universe was destroyed, together with all living things including the Brahman (ie, God), from the Three Great Disasters and a new Universe as we know it was born. The three great disasters were fire, wind and water.
As the previous Universe was burned away, it cooled down to form a new Universe with seven suns, each were shaped like giant gaseous turning wheels. These giant turning wheels were later further cooled down to liquid form and then solid form. One of these wheels which had been cooled off was eroded by wind and water, forming mountains, continents, inner seas and outer seas (lets call it "earth").
The Heavens and Hells were also re-formed in this cycle, and the sentient beings from the previous Universe were reborn into this Universe. The first one to be reborn was the Brahman (God), followed by his divas (angels). Because the Brahman was the first sentient beings that was reborn, it explains why the Brahman thinks that he was the Creator of the Universe.
Some of the divas from outer space known as Abassara-Brahman (literally, "light-sound diva") landed on planet earth, fell in love with the environment here, ate the food on earth and gained weight. They became attached to planet earth and were unable to leave. As they died and born again and again in samara, they were reborn into various living things on earth according to their karma. Human beings is part of that cycle of rebirths.
Well, the Buddhist account of creation is of course not exactly as what scientists described. But, the Buddhist philosophy is important here: humans is one member of a community that includes all living things and is governed by a omnipresent power (or "way" or "dao" or "karma", or whichever you call it).
On the other hand, Western culture, influenced heavily by the
Bible, teaches that humans are created separately and therefore
distinct from the rest of the living world, and that we enjoy
divinely granted dominance over the planet and over other living
things.
curiousoul
8/26/03 11:14 A.M. 6 out of 14
Thank you for your responses. I see that you are very well read
on this subject. If you don't mind my asking, what form of
Buddhism do you study or practice?
TexZen
8/26/03 3:14 P.M. 7 out of 14
Zen is little concerned with the issues of origin and creation as
any but intellectual curiosity. They serve little purposes to the
moment.
yiuchan
8/26/02 10:24 P.M. 8 out of 14
curiousoul: I am not a Buddhist teacher nor a monk nor an expert.
I am a Professional Engineer but later in life I switched to
become an Accountant.
Most of my resources comes from the International Buddhist Progress Society (known to most Chinese people as the Buddhist Light Temples), of which I am the Accountant for the Canadian chapter in Ottawa. The main Temple is based on Taiwan and was founded by Ven. Hsing Yun (literally, "Star-cloud"). Remember Al Gore who got into election problems after visiting a Buddhist Temple in California? That temple belongs to the same organization!!
Sometime last year, when I was working on the books and
records inside the Canadian Temple in Ottawa (NOTE: financial
statements are filed with the Canadian Government, not with the
US nor Taiwan governments), I came across a series of academic
papers published by the National Taiwan University on
"Buddhism and Science". That is how I came to know the
Buddhist creation story.
Oomwaha
8/29/03 4:09 A.M. 9 out of 14
The Buddha said this, the Buddha said that...what do you people
say...?
tenzo
8/29/03 10:04 A.M. 10 out of 14
Well, the question was "What is the Buddha's take on
creation?" Not "What is your take on creation?"
curiousoul
8/29/03 12:46 P.M. 11 out of 14
Haha...read carefully before you respond. oomwaha
Oomwaha
8/31/03 1:19 A.M. 12 out of 14
I know, I'm sorry...I do go off the deep end from time to time
and I acknowledge that it is annoying...read my post in Learning
About Buddhism 'What The?'...I apologize for anything I have EVER
written, it should all be wiped off the face of the earth as
irrelevant nonsense...
:)
viaticum
8/31/03 8:10 A.M. 13 out of 14
If you would like to read the full creation story, you can visit
this study site for the
Agganna Sutta.
I had always believed the idea of evolution. It simply made
more sense to me. It was only after becoming a Buddhist that I
came across the creation story contained in the Agganna Sutta. I
still believe in the theory of evolution. I feel that the
language of the story reflects the science of its time.
yiuchan
8/31/03 6:27 P.M. 14 out of 14
Thank you for the link to the English Translation of the Agama
Sutra (NOTE the slight difference in spelling that I used. This
is immaterial. In English, it literally means
"Discourses".)
Yes, I also do believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. And so is the Big Bang Theory, the theory of Relativity and the Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.
It is amazing to compare what the Buddha said about the Universe and to what modern scientists say. For example, in Buddhism, everything in the world is made of tiny particles (dusts), size about 0.05 microns or 2.5 Centimeters times ten to the power negative 7. BUT, each particle occupies no particular position in space at any one time. This is surprisingly close to the theories of modern Quantum Physics!
Please note that the Buddha was NOT a scientist. He was a philosopher and the "enlightened one". He did not have scientific instruments nor did he conduct experiments to "prove" what he said, and that was left to people in the modern age.
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