DEADBEATPOETX PROFILE

Chris.

Location

Tennessee.

Gender Male Marital Status

Single..

Hobbies & Interests

Music (indie/screamo/hardcore),writing, movies (horror/comedy), skateboarding, BMX, snowboarding, reading, photography, journalism, and blah blah blah.

Favorite Gadgets

Ummm....... k.

Occupation

Junior in college and hopefully future record label owner.

THIS IS MY OPENING EMAIL TO DEADBEATPOETX

I hope this is your email account...we were discussing the topic of the founding fathers and Christianity in our founding of the country. You say the founding fathers were Deists. I say they are not....here is my evidence...

The Fifty Five delegates to the constitutional convention were mostly Christian.

Of the fifty five it breaks down like this...28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, and 3 Deists. Deism was not the religion of the founding fathers, contrary what some people say to us. At most, Deism was five and one half percent of our Founders. 3 out of 55 were Deists.

I am just scratching the surface, but wanted to debate you on this topic. ttys.......

HIS FIRST RESPONSE

However, in the constitution, there is no mention of Christ. Only the term, "Our Creator", and "nature's God" (a Deist term). I can name the deists who signed the Constitution.. Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and, I believe a few others. In addition, about 95% of the Freemasons were Desits. Most of the Christians in America came over as farmers, workers, etc. America wasn't created as a "Christian nation", rather, a haven for people of all religions who wanted freedom to practice as they saw fit, free from oppression.

MY FIRST RESPONSE

However, in the constitution, there is no mention of Christ. Only the term, "Our Creator", and "nature's God"(a Deist term).

In the Declaration of Independence, after 'natures god' statement it says 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, etc. The creator is God. Jefferson used terminology and expressed concepts which Christians and Deists could subscribe, appeasing the few Deists. Deism arose in the late 1600's. Deist do not believe in miracles or see little reason for prayer in their life, since God does not intervene to answer prayer. There are many cases when prayer was used at conventions after being called for.

I can name the deists who signed the Constitution.. Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and, I believe a few others.

The only deists or one time Deists who signed the constitution were benjamin Franklin, James wilson, and perhaps Hugh Williamson. Thomas Jefferson was accused of being a deist by John Adams wife, but supporters came to Jefferson's defense. Tunis Wortman wrote a pamphlet titled, 'A Solemn Address to the Christians and Patriots upon the Approaching Election of a President of the United States' denying the charge saying there are not any notes or passages in any of Jefferson's writings, repugnant to Christianity, but favorable to it. He also claimed Jefferson was a real Christian. Thomas Jefferson's father was a Christian and taught it to Thomas, which many of our Founding Fathers parents did likewise. Jefferson refers to God in the Declaration of Independence many times...

a)appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the Rectitude of our intentions

b)with firm Reliance on the Protection of Devine Providence are two examples. The only Christian doctrine he didn't embrace was 'the Trinity'. He rejected the deist belief that God created the universe, established certain scientific principles and laws by which the universe operates, and now takes no active role in the affairs of mankind and does not work actively in the universe except through the continuing effect oft the laws of nature which he placed operation. In contrast, Jefferson believed that God as the sustainer as well creator of the universe. In the Declaration of Causes and Necessity for Taking up arms, he wrote I shall need the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land, and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life, who has covered our infancy with His providence, and our riper years with his wisdom and power' ..not the words of a Deist, because a deist wouldn't speak of submission to God and thankfulness to God. He believed in a final Judgement and was a regular at an episcopal church and a large contributer. In 1816 he declared, 'I am a real Christian, a deciple of the doctrines of Jesus.

Benjamin Franklin's parents raised him Christian for starters and he himself said he was educated a Presbyterian. He attended church regularly. He was a deist in his late teens, but never was totally removed from God. In his second autobiography, he stated 'I never doubted the existence of the Deity, that he made the world, and governed it by his Providence, that our souls are immortal, and crime will be punished'. He believed Christianity during this time did provide a great social value because it instilled people to live good, moral, virtuos lives. He believed deism wasn't very useful, if it were true also at this point. He was soon influenced by 2 men, one protestant and one Catholic. This changed his belief system from a partial deist, to most Christian beliefs. He wrote letters confirming his belief in the doctrine of Justification by Faith, and the Grace of God at the Great Convention, Franklin called for prayer, declaring that 'God governs in the affairs of men.' According to Deism, God doesn't intervene. He expressed some doubts to Jesus' divinity. A Deists would have no doubts; he would totally reject Jesus divinity. He referred to the Scriptures as 'Sacred writings' and quoted from the bible throughout his life. He expressed the belief that the convention had been guided by God in producing the Constitution, something a deist would never believe or say.

Adams, I don't know which one you are referring to, Samuel or John, but the same goes for either of them and I will elaborate if you want, just let me know which one you were referring to.

In addition, about 95% of the Freemasons were Desits.

The fact that some of our founding fathers were Masons in no way suggest they weren't Christian. Many 18th century people joined a masonic lodge for many reasons: friendship, social activities, contacts, or help romote ideals. Lodge membership says little about a person's Christian faith, except that it confirms a belief in God and life after death, something which Liberals today and the Democratic party don't stand for usually.

Most of the Christians in America came over as farmers, workers, etc. America wasn't created as a "Christian nation", rather, a haven for people of all religions who wanted freedom to practice as they saw fit, free from oppression.

In no way would our Founding Fathers approve of the Democratic views of today. Freedom of Religion and Freedom from religion are 2 different things. They never intended our nation to lose it's Christian foundation. Too many writings prove this fact. The fact that the Fathers were Dominantly Christian would disprove the fact along with their writings and the way they handled themselves while in session that our country was founded upon Christianity.

Hope this helps.......

HIS CLOSING

Yes, ty.

IN CLOSING THIS WAS A VERY NICE PERSON AND WAS A FUN OPENING DEBATE FOR ME.