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Jayananda Thakur Jayananda honored with title Thakur
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Jayananda Thakur Jayananda honored with title Thakur
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. Jayananda Thakur A devotee emailed me saying that some other devotee said, “Srila Prabhupada never said ‘Thakur’ for Jayananda,” and brought this up in a group of devotees. Thus the implication is that this title for Jayananda is not authorized. So for this reason I feel compelled to discuss this matter further, although it’s been explained years ago on the website. Since many devotees haven’t read that explanation, therefore we think its necessary to discuss it further. We cannot say in certainty that Srila Prabhupada “never said Thakur” in Jayananda’s situation. We don’t have it on record, it’s not recorded on tape or letter. Yet, we have other important statements from Srila Prabhupada, which are not on record, such as his books being “the lawbooks for 10,000 years.” Also there is a quote from Srila Prabhupada, [paraphrasing] “Even if you see Brahmananda smoking a cigarette on the corner, still you should give him all respect.” This is a common quote amongst older devotees, yet not in the folio. So Srila Prabhupada could have said “Thakur” in this case, and we don’t have the record. And, it is a big possibility that he could have said like this, [like to one or two devotees, who then told others] because that would be a plausible explanation for the phenomenon of so many devotees commonly using this title, “Thakur” for Jayananda, back in the late 70’s. Otherwise, it is hard to understand how it could catch on like that. Even Charu was saying Jayananda Thakur at LA Ratha-yatra to thousands of people over the public address system. The other explanation is that one or two devotees somehow started this title, and it caught on to many other devotees. The plausibility of this happening does not seem very great, however, because it would be hard to think that someone would make it up, tell another devotee, so on, and it catches on all over. And, even if this did happen, still this does not mean that the present situation is not authorized, because Srila Prabhupada gives the final authorization for this title, as we mention below, in his statement where he says that “all Vaisnavas are Thakur.” I was used to this common usage of the title, after hearing it so often from others, and I gave a talk on Jayananda’s day in Denver, 1994, and I said “Thakur” and I noticed that the TP looked kind of strangely at me after that comment. After the class, I asked another devotee if Srila Prabhupada said this. He said it was in a letter. Then later I started the website and used this title for a long time. Then some Jayanandanuga devotees told me that it wasn’t in the folio, but after discussing it for a while, we decided to use it. And when the final edit for the book came around, I was hesitant to use the title “Thakur.” But a very senior and scholarly devotee who was very learned in Vaisnava history and siddhanta told me that I should go ahead and use the title. Here is my email reply to the prabhu who told me about the above situation-
Haribol
Prabhu, Please accept my obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. This
was explained on the website years ago. Go to the website and see "honorary
title" and also go to the new "online version" and see the
intro, where the word "Thakur" is hyperlinked, and see
Prabhupada's statement on Thakur
[click on hyperlink], he said, "all Vaisnavas are Thakur" and then
let me know what you think. Jayananda is included in the "all
Vaisnavas" and we all feel he deserves the honor. As Dasarathasuta
said, "it is a customary title of honor for a departed great
soul, and we can use it whether Prabhupada said it or not."
Its
been on the website for 3-4 years, and on the book, and not one devotee has
objected. Everyone has accepted it. If a devotee were to object, well, what
can we say? Its like nobody has even suggested a debate about it. Sanyasis
here have shown appreciation for the book, to me personally, and no hint of
objection. Its a title for a departed great Vaisnava. That's how we see it.
I thought it was an issue years ago, but we all decided it wasn't. We feel
perfectly authorized on this decision. Of course, we don't say this for
every departed devotee. Nobody is going to call me "Vishoka
Thakur" after I'm gone, that would be ridiculous. But with Jayananda,
it fits perfectly. Who would say that it doesn't? Anyway, thanks for the
question, it is a valid question. I
hope this helps, your servant, Visoka dasa PS,
as I put your reply in the outbox, I checked the rest of my mail, and
Naikatma from Denver, the TP, just ordered 8 books, the title of his email
"Jayananda Thakur" which proves what I'm saying above, nobody
objects, they all accept it naturally. * * * * Three valuable opinions The
title of “Thakur” was used in the website, but ultimately it was
unverified in the folio. Yet it is a historical fact that many of devotees
who loved him, mostly in California, they were all saying this title, even
Charu Dasa said it to thousands at Los Angeles Ratha, and thus it was
unwittingly conferred upon him. It is still a possibility that Srila
Prabhupada said like that, I almost remember hearing such a quote, but we
could have lost it somehow. I used the title on the website because I
actually thought that Srila Prabhupada said like that, and another devotee
confirmed it to me. I did not find out until later, that the folio did not
verify what I thought was confirmed. So the title was on the site for 2
years and nobody said to the contrary. Everybody seemed to accept it, and
many were writing in to me, using the title. I
wrote this following note to some older devotees, Jayanandanugas- “Could you tell me about the philosophic validity for the title
of “Thakur” for Jayananda? I don’t know how this happened, a whole
bunch of us were saying, “Thakur” and even Charu Dasa was saying it on
the PA system to thousands of people at Los Angeles Ratha-yatra. But we
are mystified at the origin, although I have vague remembrance of Srila
Prabhupada saying it meant good-as-God, and to use the title for
Jayananda. This could have been, and the record may have been lost.
Otherwise, how could many devotees could have been saying this? If
anything, it is a poetic justice, a transcendental slip of the tongue,
inspired by Goddess Sarasvati. And as thousands of devotees have probably
read the website, not one person has objected to the use of “Thakur.”
One prabhu, Vatsara Dasa, asked
why, and I said that Srila Prabhupada said so. This is because I did ask
one prabhu, after I gave a talk
on Jayananda, if Srila Prabhupada said about this title, and he told me it
was true, it was in a letter. But, I guess this was not the actual case,
as we fail to see such a letter. So, in a sense, there is a poetic license
to this mystery, even if there is some mistake (a transcendental mistake
at that.) But, I am not sure how to proceed with this title. Still, nobody
objects, but some may be wondering why. Any thoughts?” from
Dasaratha-suta Dasa- Regarding
the Thakur controversy (if there is one) ... I told you it is a respectful
title for a departed Vaishnava, generally not used while he is living.
Prabhupada awarded Jayananda Prabhu the complete position of sainthood by
writing the letter after his departure, and in the letter to Ramesvara
about setting the day aside “Just as we do on the disappearance day of
the other great Vaishnavas.” But so far the Vedabase has not turned up
any letter or other “Prabhupada said” in this regard. You said you
checked with Charu and he said that he heard it from someone. So we should
not believe any of these “Prabhupada said” quotes until the proof is
before us. In the Prabhupada
Siksamrta there is the famous quote where Prabhupada is blasting the
concept of so many “Prabhupada said” fabrications. So please try to
straighten this out on your website. My final conclusion is: “We say
Jayananda Thakur because it is a traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava title for a
great soul who has disappeared, not because we think Prabhupada said
it.” But if someone can produce an authoritative quote, then I stand
corrected. There is no mystical slip of the tongue or transcendental
mistake about it; it is a customary title of honor for a departed great
soul, and we can use it whether Prabhupada said it or not. From
Vaiyasaki Dasa- My
feeling is that since Srila Prabhupada ordered everyone within ISKCON to
celebrate his disappearance day just as we do with all the other saints
and Thakurs, I do not see any harm in glorifying him with this title. We
are supposed to glorify the Vaishnavas, especially one who has been
distinguished by his spiritual master and elevated to a position on the
level of previous acharyas. People
who are non-envious will be pleased to see a Vaishnava glorified. On the
other hand, one can never please an envious person, so it is best not to
have much association with such persons. Lord Chaitanya taught that this
is the true behavior of a Vaishnava: “asat sanga tyaga, ei vaisnava acara.” The true character of a
Vaishnava is to give up bad association. People who are envious or
critical of other Vaishnavas are bad association, even though Vaishnavas,
and should only be given mental respect from a distance. This is the edict
from sastra.
This is my opinion. Your
servant, Vaiyasaki Dasa From
Mahaksa Dasa- Haribol,
just a quickie response, dear Vishoka. I like the idea that Sri Chaitaguru
directly gives such titles, like Lord Balarama seats Suta Goswami on
Vyasasana, not contrived, not imagined, rather manifested from the heart.
I had not heard of Sriman Jayananda Thakur, since his passing, while
attempting to acquire San Francisco Ratha-yatra info in the spring of
1977. “Mr. Rathayatra has passed away” was the shocking news of that
day, so I first saw “Thakur” on your Gunga page. I pass all titles
through the process of guru-sastra-sadhu
and find no flaw, and there was absolutely no hesitation, and I am the
greatest sneerer at titles. As foremost disciple of Srila Prabhupada, the very personification of his #1 desire for us, the illusive cooperation in Krishna Consciousness, Sriman Jayananda Thakur may wear any title he likes, and mantras describing his humble service are sung by the demigods, my opinion in the matter is that Lord Balarama bestows the title “Thakur” on Sriman Jayananda Thakur. Scoffers
will criticize those who pay tribute to such preceptors because they may
have discovered a flaw, so and so is now smoking pot, but none of this has
anything to do with the job they performed in the service to Srila
Prabhupada, that is, canvassing and attracting folks to the sankirtan
movement. When I get these remarks if I should praise Gaurasundara, Sudama,
Subala, Visnujana, and others who selflessly attracted me to the movement
on behalf of their Spiritual Master, I disregard because their service is
frozen in time, eternally recorded in the book of Life, end of discussion.
Falldowns are token, temporary, and Srila Prabhupada still accepts these
folks as “His Own”, so I can respect.
In the case of those who never fell down, the respects are even
more beneficial, and those who disbelieve the process can say what they
will, but ultimately, it is the “disciples’ decision”. As such, I
freely take whatever mercy I can garner from the memory of Sri Jayananda
Thakur, even a
My replay to Mahaksa Dasa - Really nice, yes, “Service frozen in
time,” that’s really good, and thanks there, sadhu,
for your sanga once again, Prabhu. Hoping there’s be no “restrictive
law” against a title Thakur, we are just trying to figure out what is
right. In my heart of hearts, his title of Thakur is sanctioned by
divinity somehow, still there’s the old folio proof that everybody seems
to need these days. Whoever started the title, even if not Srila Prabhupada,
it was divinely inspired, as it feels right to me and apparently others,
seeing no protest, and the site is Iskcon approved, being linked to major
Iskcon sites. Anyway, I’m going around to all dear godbrothers I can
think of, trying to find the source of the title and perhaps someone will
remember just how it happened. Your bud and serf, Vishoka - Now all these
doubts are duly cleared by the kind letters of my godbrothers,
Dasaratha-suta and Vaiyasaki and Mahaksa Prabhus, and Jayanandanugas alone
are authorized to decide this title, its bona fide, and I am sure now, it
truly is … a controversy that never was.
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