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…Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): What I am concerned about is that this particular government, over the last few years, has lost a lot of interest in that area. I want to explore that at length because it is, as I say, an area which I am very much wanting to discuss.
The minister made reference to land banking. Land banking is an interesting concept. It goes back quite a way. I can recall discussions I had with reference to that back in my university days. I guess at the time there was this need for government to purchase land because there was this fear that the price of land was going to escalate to such a degree that the average person was not going to be able to afford to buy the lots to be able to construct homes and developments. So I think to a certain degree we entered into the land banking area in order to protect the consumer, ultimately, and in order to ensure that the public interest, whether it was public buildings or public projects, would be there in the future. I think that was an applaudable thing to do.
I have been somewhat concerned in terms of the degree in which the province has been involved. There have been questions regarding the manner in which this government, even six years ago, entered into the disposal of some of this land bank, and I am curious in terms of how much of the land bank is still there. The honourable minister might even want to take something of that nature as notice because I do not know if they would actually have that at the table. But I can recall a number of years ago when the issue of--was it the Ladco-MHRC deal a number of years back? Hopefully, what we will do is we will get some time to actually talk about that particular agreement because I can recall at the time--it would be close to six years; it might be a bit off--when there was a bit of an uproar inside the Chamber in terms of the way in which government entered into that particular agreement--[interjection]
The current Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) makes reference to its being a good agreement. At the time I believe she was actually writing for the Premier, so she is probably likely very familiar with that agreement.
There were many aspects of that agreement that we were concerned about, in particular what sort of low income housing was going to be put into place. Hopefully, we will be able to get into that sort of a discussion also.
I would be very negligent if I did not make reference to the Meadows West Phase 2 because, after all, that is an area that I represent and even during the Ladco ordeal a number of years ago, I raised the issue of Meadows West and Meadows West Phase 2. I am very much interested, and I had given the minister in his other capacity as the Minister responsible for Housing some notice in terms of that. I do want to get--or I was going to be putting forward a number of questions, and this might even provide me the opportunity to do just that because it is a part of this department in terms of urban sprawl, and he might even want to make comment on that.
Again, both with the Ladco and the MHRC deal, this would be a lot of good-will discussion from the minister because ultimately the development of these properties is through his other portfolio, that being Housing, but I understand that the land bank itself is owned through the Department of Urban Affairs, or the Department of Urban Affairs is the one that acquires. I am not too sure, and maybe what we can do is get some form of clarification because it could quite easily be out of the Department of Housing.
Having given somewhat of a preamble, I do want to start off by asking some follow-up questions and get some dialogue with respect to what I had asked earlier today in Question Period, and have raised in the past, and that being a real concern that the Liberal Party has with respect to this whole government's approach to the city of Winnipeg and providing the carrot, if you like, or ensuring that the city of Winnipeg is viable into the future. It is very easy for us to say, well, you know, it is a property tax issue and all the City of Winnipeg has to do is reduce its property tax, that makes it that much more competitive, or provide different services and that would, hopefully, retain individuals in the city of Winnipeg.
Those are very easy, straightforward answers which the Minister of Urban Affairs could, in fact, give, and I would imagine to a certain degree he will give those answers, but my intentions are to try to prod the Minister of Urban Affairs and see if in fact he might be able to expand upon those reasons in areas in which I would like to venture into, such as the education tax. You know, when we talk in terms of, well, why?
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HOUSING
Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson (Gerry McAlpine): The committee will now continue with consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Housing.
Is the Minister of Housing and the critic for Housing--will it be the will of the committee that we recess for five minutes until 10:13 p.m.? Leave? To leave the clock going?
An Honourable Member: No.
Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson: We will resume here at 10:13 p.m. Committee recess.
The committee recessed at 10:08 p.m.
…Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Chairperson, thank you to the member for Radisson.
I had given some notice to the Minister of Housing with reference to the MHRC-Qualico deal with Meadows West Phase 2. It was just a few minutes ago in Urban Affairs that I was talking about this particular agreement. Now that we are, in fact, in the right department, I am wondering, first and foremost, if the minister can provide an actual copy of the agreement that was reached between MHRC and Qualico.
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I know, as I indicated earlier, with the Ladco-MHRC deal, I was provided a copy of it a few years back, shortly after its actually being signed. Is it something that is possible to get a copy of?
Mr. Reimer: I think the member for Inkster can recognize that because we are bound by the legal documentation and the legalese of a development between MHRC and Qualico that the parameters of reference have to be addressed between the two parties. If there is no problem with the release--he mentioned, I believe, when he talked about the Ladco development that the agreement was made available. If there are no impediments that are seen, we will certainly provide him with a copy of that agreement.
I should point out to him just for his information that there are approximately 750 residential lots that will be developed over the next eight years. The estimated value is about $7 million, with MHRC's share estimated in excess of $5 million. Application for subdivision has been made under the name Keewatin Meadows Development Corporation, and the earliest possible date for start-up of the development is--we are looking at very, very shortly, which is summer of '95. As I mentioned, we will make every effort to make sure that he gets a copy of that agreement.
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Chairperson, I would appreciate that, and if in fact for some reason we are not allowed to have a copy of the agreement, information such as time lines, information in terms of how decisions are made, for example--I know in the Ladco, there were representatives from MHRC and Ladco that sat on a management--or that administered the project, if you will. I cannot recall offhand all of the details of it, but anything that might be able to facilitate me having a better understanding of this particular agreement would be much appreciated.
I know with respect to the Meadows West residents association, Qualico has made an attempt to go out and talk to the residents association. That is something which again was appreciated, and it was through, actually, the co-operation of the Department of Housing that we were able to get some of that co-operation with Qualico. The purpose of this is to try to provide the residents of Meadows West input in terms of the overall development of the Meadows West Phase 2 , because there is a great deal of concern for things such as schools, community clubs, and they want to make sure that those concerns are in fact being addressed in any proposal before they actually get underway.
In fact at the last, most recent, Meadows West general meeting I was at, I believe they actually had some of the architectural designs. There is a significant amount of concern with respect to the density, in terms of the possibility of row housing and so forth. The feeling of the residents that I have perceived thus far is that they want to see nothing less than single detached homes being built in the Meadows West Phase 2. I know that Qualico has requested, I believe--I cannot really recall the exact terminology that is being used--zoning that would allow for row houses of different sorts to be constructed. That has raised some concern with a lot of the residents. There are other aspects where there are concerns which I believe virtually could be overcome if in fact the residents were provided the opportunity to have direct input.
I have indicated to the association that if need be, if there are concerns, we can bring them right to the department direct. I would anticipate that, and if in fact in the future there are some problems, the minister will likely hear from the Meadows West residents association.
The minister will want to comment on that, and then I will move on to the other section.
Mr. Reimer: Yes, the member for Inkster is right in his concerns regarding where the development agreement is and the implications for the area. I can tell him, through the knowledge that has been provided to me, it is before the city in the sense that the public have access to presentations at this particular time regarding the Meadows West development, so we are more or less into the process right now as we talk, that this is being evaluated by the city. So the development agreement is open for public scrutiny right at this present time, right now, from what I understand. We will keep the member informed with the agreement as we get it for his use also.
Mr. Lamoureux: Again, Mr. Chairperson, that would be appreciated along with--I know that there was a draft proposal in terms of what the Meadows West Phase 2 was going to look at. They had built in the cul-de-sacs, the bays and so forth. If there are modifications, because no doubt there is a board that oversees the whole development or the management committee that oversees the whole development, if I could be put or placed onto a mailing list that would see these modifications to changes, again it would be definitely beneficial for me, in terms of the meetings that I go to in Meadows West, to be included on that.